I agree: BB is very painful in a deck that can easily deal itself 7 or more damage. Plus, Pyromancer has a body by itself and is faster because you can pair it up with Probe. That gives you a token straight from turn 2 leading to 3 damages on board turn 3. BB would only give you one attacking token at turn 4 when the first token stops being affected by summoning sickness
To sum it up
Bitter Blossom:
+More resilent to removal
+Tokens can fly
-Slower
-It hasn't a body
-Still dies to decay
-Fuels Tarmogoyf (making it a potential 5/6: stronger than our Anglers)
Young Pyromancer:
+Has 2 power
+Faster token production thanks to cantrips
+Less painfull to your life total
+Even if they kill it, it's still often a 2 for 1 in our favour
+Multiples are much better than BB multiples
-More vulnerable to removal
-Tokens don't fly
You forgot to mention that BB doesn't require spells cast to start producing tokens, it recovers battlefield presence on its own after board wipes, helps getting Delirium (there are 3/4 cards that Delver could want in SOI, might be more after Eldritch Moon).
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In Lorwyn's brief evenings, the sun pauses at the horizon long enough for a certain species of violet to bloom with the fragrance of mischief.
I agree: BB is very painful in a deck that can easily deal itself 7 or more damage. Plus, Pyromancer has a body by itself and is faster because you can pair it up with Probe. That gives you a token straight from turn 2 leading to 3 damages on board turn 3. BB would only give you one attacking token at turn 4 when the first token stops being affected by summoning sickness
To sum it up
Bitter Blossom:
+More resilent to removal
+Tokens can fly
-Slower
-It hasn't a body
-Still dies to decay
-Fuels Tarmogoyf (making it a potential 5/6: stronger than our Anglers)
Young Pyromancer:
+Has 2 power
+Faster token production thanks to cantrips
+Less painfull to your life total
+Even if they kill it, it's still often a 2 for 1 in our favour
+Multiples are much better than BB multiples
-More vulnerable to removal
-Tokens don't fly
You forgot to mention that BB doesn't require spells cast to start producing tokens, it recovers battlefield presence on its own after board wipes, helps getting Delirium (there are 3/4 cards that Delver could want in SOI, might be more after Eldritch Moon).
Which ones? Invasive surgery ofc, but I can't think of anything else atm with delirium we could desire.
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"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire." --Jaya Ballard
I agree: BB is very painful in a deck that can easily deal itself 7 or more damage. Plus, Pyromancer has a body by itself and is faster because you can pair it up with Probe. That gives you a token straight from turn 2 leading to 3 damages on board turn 3. BB would only give you one attacking token at turn 4 when the first token stops being affected by summoning sickness
To sum it up
Bitter Blossom:
+More resilent to removal
+Tokens can fly
-Slower
-It hasn't a body
-Still dies to decay
-Fuels Tarmogoyf (making it a potential 5/6: stronger than our Anglers)
Young Pyromancer:
+Has 2 power
+Faster token production thanks to cantrips
+Less painfull to your life total
+Even if they kill it, it's still often a 2 for 1 in our favour
+Multiples are much better than BB multiples
-More vulnerable to removal
-Tokens don't fly
You forgot to mention that BB doesn't require spells cast to start producing tokens, it recovers battlefield presence on its own after board wipes, helps getting Delirium (there are 3/4 cards that Delver could want in SOI, might be more after Eldritch Moon).
Which ones? Invasive surgery ofc, but I can't think of anything else atm with delirium we could desire.
I'm running 1 Blood Moon in my sideboard. I've been considering adding a second, but I'm wondering if the 2 decks most hindered by it (Tron, Eldrazi) losing Eye of Ugin makes adding another Blood Moon a bad idea.
@retractinfelix
don't add another. sometimes it will get you a free win, but with drazi slowing down significantly and tron becoming a better MU, plus us not always having the associated basics, you are better off adding in something else.
@hakkai_requiem
I've tested pick, we would almost always rather have thoughtseize and/or obliteration. Slaughter is going to be good in standard, but in modern dreadbore seems like it would usually be better (except maybe jund or tron. I'll have to try it out). Tooth collector is actually a good idea, I hadnt thought of that one. it seems very good in MU's like infect, affinity, and elves (that said, we have good MU's against all of those).
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"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire." --Jaya Ballard
I'm running 1 Blood Moon in my sideboard. I've been considering adding a second, but I'm wondering if the 2 decks most hindered by it (Tron, Eldrazi) losing Eye of Ugin makes adding another Blood Moon a bad idea.
Instead of a second Blood Moon I'd probably first think about other options like Molten Rain (that 2 dmg is relevant, especially nice flashbacked), Fulminator Mage (recursion with Kommand) or Crumble to Dust.
Tooth Collector is cute. There's always lots of little dude aggro decks in my meta so it will be fun to test.
@hakkai_requiem
Tooth collector is actually a good idea, I hadnt thought of that one. it seems very good in MU's like infect, affinity, and elves (that said, we have good MU's against all of those).
I can't imagine a sideboard plan in which Tooth Collector is better than Izzet Staticaster... Staticaster can't attack, but I think in general it's a better card and it blocks better than Tooth Collector.
The list is a bit deviant from what people usually discuss here but I am in a testing mood. Last time I played I had Gurmag Angler stuck in hand more often than I wanted among other things. The absence of gitaxian probe is a scandal, I know!
The only thing I am really not sure about is how good spell pierce is these days. One mana counters are awesome in a deck with 18 lands but what is the best counterspell suite for the current meta ??
Also, sideboard advice on blood moon, packing graveyard hate and so on would be great, but again, I don't really know the meta....
@ThreeCr4zy
I would stay away from stormchasers in a deck full of counters myself, but if you want to test go ahead. You also probably want more another leak, but idk what meta looks like (id recommend losing dispel). other than that list looks solid. On the pierce note, it seems pretty good atm but i'm not 100% sure (i use denial in my list and that is fundamentally different in being a hard counter a good percentage of the time)
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"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire." --Jaya Ballard
try dragon's claw or sun droplet over 1-2 of the blood moons. I rarely board them in, and since bloom is gone and drazi/tron have been neutered, i don't see applicable MU's much.
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"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire." --Jaya Ballard
Is it correct to take out kommand against burn or should I keep it in? I'm considering switching to full control in that match up and take out thought scour.
I'd take out young pyro against burn. It's too easy a target for searing blaze/ searing blood and is hard to attack with as all there creatures easily trade. So based on your list:
Out- 3 young pyro (searing blaze target and difficult to attack with)
1 tasigur (slightly slow having 3)
2 kolaghans command (clunky with shock the only useful mode)
1 murderous cut (again slow)
I've started running Grotesque Mutation in the side instead as my anti-burn/zoo card. You don't get the cute interaction with Eidolon but one successful strike with a flipped Delver or delve fatty is at least 6 life gained. You can throw it on a Snap or unflipped Delver too if you really need to which is an upside that Vampiric Link doesn't have. It's no Lightning Helix, but in Grixis colors it does the best impersonation it can. Has anyone else tried it? I've been playtesting on Cockatrice but only played a few matches against burn or zoo variants so I can't really say if it's worth replacing Link.
Hello, I'm attending a tournament tomorrow: what's the usual agreement about sideboard plan against an unknown meta right now?
Against affinity in particular I'd like to know if there is any agreement on the choice between Hurkyl's recall and Shatterstorm
Note that I'm playing a list with only 3 snapcasters (as some other lists are doing: personally I hate drawing multiples in the opening hand) and no forked bolt (upping the remand + mana leak count in case of more blue decks appearing after the unbans). I still run 2 Kommands and 1 Elektrolyze as mainboard affinity hate
Is there any consensus about burn? I'm thinking about 3 or 4 Dragon's Claw instead of Vampiric Link which I didn't really love in my testing
For unknown metas, spellskite and surgical extraction are very good.
Im personally a fan of a vandalblast + recall package for affinity, since both are good against lantern and thopter as well
I was never a fan of dragons claw since you really need two for it to be effective, and vampiric link on a tasigur wins games on its own
Hello, I'm attending a tournament tomorrow: what's the usual agreement about sideboard plan against an unknown meta right now?
Against affinity in particular I'd like to know if there is any agreement on the choice between Hurkyl's recall and Shatterstorm
Note that I'm playing a list with only 3 snapcasters (as some other lists are doing: personally I hate drawing multiples in the opening hand) and no forked bolt (upping the remand + mana leak count in case of more blue decks appearing after the unbans). I still run 2 Kommands and 1 Elektrolyze as mainboard affinity hate
Is there any consensus about burn? I'm thinking about 3 or 4 Dragon's Claw instead of Vampiric Link which I didn't really love in my testing
In general, link is better. Recall is good vs an unknown meta and is usually better than shatterstorm b/c getting 4 mana isn't always guarunteed and we have a good affinity MU anyway
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"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire." --Jaya Ballard
you have a t1 delver, 2 cantrips, and a t4 tas if you get a grave and dont find another land. that is one of our best lands
Primers
4C Walkers
You forgot to mention that BB doesn't require spells cast to start producing tokens, it recovers battlefield presence on its own after board wipes, helps getting Delirium (there are 3/4 cards that Delver could want in SOI, might be more after Eldritch Moon).
Which ones? Invasive surgery ofc, but I can't think of anything else atm with delirium we could desire.
Primers
4C Walkers
Invasive Surgery and Pick the Brain seem very good, also To the Slaughter. Maybe if there are a lot of X/1s Tooth Collector.
don't add another. sometimes it will get you a free win, but with drazi slowing down significantly and tron becoming a better MU, plus us not always having the associated basics, you are better off adding in something else.
@hakkai_requiem
I've tested pick, we would almost always rather have thoughtseize and/or obliteration. Slaughter is going to be good in standard, but in modern dreadbore seems like it would usually be better (except maybe jund or tron. I'll have to try it out). Tooth collector is actually a good idea, I hadnt thought of that one. it seems very good in MU's like infect, affinity, and elves (that said, we have good MU's against all of those).
Primers
4C Walkers
Instead of a second Blood Moon I'd probably first think about other options like Molten Rain (that 2 dmg is relevant, especially nice flashbacked), Fulminator Mage (recursion with Kommand) or Crumble to Dust.
Tooth Collector is cute. There's always lots of little dude aggro decks in my meta so it will be fun to test.
I can't imagine a sideboard plan in which Tooth Collector is better than Izzet Staticaster... Staticaster can't attack, but I think in general it's a better card and it blocks better than Tooth Collector.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
I've been away from modern since the eldrazi landed but I am thinking of hitting up FNM with this pile tomorrow:
1x Blood Crypt
1x Bloodstained Mire
3x Island
1x Mountain
4x Polluted Delta
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Steam Vents
1x Swamp
1x Watery Grave
Sorcery 8
2x Forked Bolt
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Serum Visions
Instant 19
1x Dispel
2x Terminate
4x Thought Scour
2x Kolaghan's Command
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Mana Leak
1x Murderous Cut
1x Spell Pierce
2x Spell Snare
4x Delver of Secrets
4x Snapcaster Mage
2x Stormchaser Mage
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
3x Young Pyromancer
3x Blood Moon
2x Dispel
2x Engineered Explosives
1x Jace, Architect of Thought
2x Rakdos Charm
2x Spellskite
3x Vampiric Link
The list is a bit deviant from what people usually discuss here but I am in a testing mood. Last time I played I had Gurmag Angler stuck in hand more often than I wanted among other things. The absence of gitaxian probe is a scandal, I know!
The only thing I am really not sure about is how good spell pierce is these days. One mana counters are awesome in a deck with 18 lands but what is the best counterspell suite for the current meta ??
Also, sideboard advice on blood moon, packing graveyard hate and so on would be great, but again, I don't really know the meta....
What Class Are You?
I would stay away from stormchasers in a deck full of counters myself, but if you want to test go ahead. You also probably want more another leak, but idk what meta looks like (id recommend losing dispel). other than that list looks solid. On the pierce note, it seems pretty good atm but i'm not 100% sure (i use denial in my list and that is fundamentally different in being a hard counter a good percentage of the time)
Primers
4C Walkers
What Class Are You?
Primers
4C Walkers
Dispel ought to one of your best bets against Burn. A side-board Vampiric Link is another thought; it's especially good if you can get on their Eidolon of the Great Revel.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
What Class Are You?
I'm going at it like this:
1x darkslick shores
1x Blood Crypt
1x Bloodstained Mire
2x Island
1x Mountain
4x Polluted Delta
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Steam Vents
1x Swamp
1x Watery Grave
Sorcery 8
2x Forked Bolt
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Serum Visions
2x Negate
2x Terminate
4x Thought Scour
2x Kolaghan's Command
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Mana Leak
1x Murderous Cut
2x Spell Snare
Creatures 15
4x Delver of Secrets
4x Snapcaster Mage
3x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
3x Young Pyromancer
1x gurmag angler
2x Blood Moon
2x Dispel
2x Engineered Explosives
2x pyroclasm
2x Rakdos Charm
2x Spellskite
3x Vampiric Link
Expecting a heavy combo field with lots of burn and some other random decks.
What Class Are You?
Out- 3 young pyro (searing blaze target and difficult to attack with)
1 tasigur (slightly slow having 3)
2 kolaghans command (clunky with shock the only useful mode)
1 murderous cut (again slow)
In 2 Dispel
2 spellskite
3 vampiric link
For unknown metas, spellskite and surgical extraction are very good.
Im personally a fan of a vandalblast + recall package for affinity, since both are good against lantern and thopter as well
I was never a fan of dragons claw since you really need two for it to be effective, and vampiric link on a tasigur wins games on its own
UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR
In general, link is better. Recall is good vs an unknown meta and is usually better than shatterstorm b/c getting 4 mana isn't always guarunteed and we have a good affinity MU anyway
Primers
4C Walkers