MTG Salvation

the list i'm running for now. The composition is the same, just a few tweaks to better fit my style and meta.

how are the two inquisitions main? i've been wanting to run main deck discard but i can't find anything i like over discard. maybe cut 1 dispel for it, but even then i would want a second discard spell. also, I feel that we often just board them out anyway.

I like the discard spells. I cut them for a little while, trying to fit more "business" into the deck, and I ran the 2 Spell Snares and I think some extra removal. But I really missed having the discard against stuff like Bloom, Burn, Affinity, and other comboish decks. So I put them back in. As I said above, having something proactive to do in the early turns, beyond the usual Serum Visions draw or Lightning Bolt the first thing on site, is really nice. Sometimes your hand is just slow and reactive, but discard gives you something to do with your mana, and gives you valuable information. Protecting the combo (which never seems to have worked out for me, but is relevant) and getting Tasigur down earlier are big bonuses, but mostly I wanted more ways to interact early on without relying on something as narrow as Spell Snare. Snare is great when it has good targets, but it can be embarrassingly bad in some situations. Discard is almost always live, and even when it's not ideal it's still better than a lot of dead draws this deck can produce.

We are not that much of a tempo deck that it isn't possible to run Discard. I mean we are playing 4 Splinter twins, and 4 Deceiver Exarchs. We barely pass ourselves for a tempo deck, so I don't think that keeping up pressure is a valid argument for not running targeted discard.

Yeah, I think we've made our point LBolt. Discard isn't an auto-include in Grixis Twin, but it's more than acceptable.

Hey guys, i start getting into Grixis Twin and would like to hear your opinions about the list i am about to build. Everything that is missing in the MD are the Snapcaster Mages and the Steamvents. For SB i need the Blood moon. Other than that i have the deck completed

You should run more lands, 23 is the accepted norm.

You absolutely need to hit that 4th mana to combo, and if you don't have the combo, then you need the 5 mana for snap-kommands to grind until you get your combo. Also, if you don't go beyond 5 lands, you can't have extra mana to protect your combo as well.

Postboard, if you are boarding into control, you need to consistently hit 7-8 lands. 22 lands is still a bit risky. I used to run 22 too, but it was too shaky and you leave a lot of games to luck. 21 lands seems unthinkable to me.

I like the thought scours to augment the aggro plan with tasigur. 2 scours also justifies less lands. but minimum should still be 22, so i would suggest cutting the izzet charm for the 22nd land.

I've toyed with maindeck pacts before, but ultimately i felt i didn't need it. one copy is fair though. i would replace the mana leak with either the second dispel/pact, or with a single spell snare.

EDIT: rest of the list looks sweet, languish feels slower but is probably fine, but it would help to let us know the meta so we have more concrete suggestions.

I agree that 23 lands is the accepted ideal norm. 22 would be the bare minimum I would run, and it would probably mean cutting the loothouse and possibly a Cryptic.

Thought Scour does not excite me at all in a deck with only 2 Tasigur. Sure, it's nice with Snapcaster, but in my opinion, running Thought Scours is a nonbo with the combo and pushes us into trying to be more like Grixis Control, which we aren't. The times when you will hit a turn 2 Tasigur off of Scour + Fetch/Visions is rare with only 2 copies of each piece, and we have very little problem setting up Tasigur anyway in most games. We aren't playing Tasigur for early pressure (like control does), we are playing him for late game staying power. Occasionally, we do need to cast him as early as possible when our hand is all air, but those games are rare. Usually we can just combo people when we need to win quickly. And I personally prefer casting Tasigur on 5 mana for B so that I can activate him in response to anything that kills him to still get value.

In any case, I don't think we need Thought Scour. Izzet Charm is an awesome spell, but not so necessary with Kommand and Terminate in the deck. And I probably wouldn't run Pact. Dispel is so much more useful in a variety of situations.

Sideboard needs some work. Again, Languish should be Damnation, if anything. Having your 4 mana double black sweeper not actually take out opposing Tasigurs, Goyfs, and Fish is a huge problem. But again, I think Pyroclasm and Anger of the Gods are ideal sweepers for us, since they leave behind our Exarch to combo the following turn, but mostly because they only cost red and they are much cheaper in the matchups that matter (affinity, tribal, coco, burn, etc.). The rest of the sideboard suggestions I would make would just point you toward my current board, so reference my list above to see what I'd recommend.

@frankiepeanuts: In my meta there are some Token decks, 2-3 Control Decks, something you could call "Mardu Burn" and Affinity.

I get the point with having more lands. I think i will cut down to 1 Scour then. I just love about Izzet Charm that it is so much useful stuff in one card.

As for the pacts: In many games i tested with my deck proxied up i went for combo on Turn 4 and the target just ate a path. For these rare occasions there is a 1-of Pact in the board. Just to protect the combo.

@HomelandZecurity: Since this is my 2nd Modern Deck so i did not went all out on the cards so far. I will see how cutting down to 1 scour will work for me, i feel like it is good enough to play even though it's a nonbo with twin. As said above i run the pact as some sort of "all or nothing" bet. When you play in a game where the opponent has 1 counter/removal in hand and he plays it, it just wins you the game for sure.

I picked Languish over Damnation due to availability. It wipes basically everything in my meta so you could say it's "Damnation's Little Brother" for me. I can test around with Anger of the Gods though. This will probably work out better due to blood moon.

Thank you guys for the input! I will put some thinking into the list

if you have anger, run anger. there's nothing in your meta where hitting 4 toughness creatures makes a bigger difference than 3 toughness. the only difference is against tokens when you need the auriok champion to die. if so, a 1/1 split can be considered.

if your meta lacks BGx and is more control oriented. pact is good enough that i would even consider two - one main and one in the board. it's weaker against fast decks since it's a dead card until turn 5,but after that it's a decent card for you to stabilize behind. against control it wins you the game so easily. If you start to see more BGx/less control, pact would be the first card you drop from the 75.

if tokens is a big part, spell snare would be preferable over mana leak and thought scours. Izzet charm seems pretty good in your meta - removal for affinity, counter for tokens and burn, and selection against control.

thats because your playing the deck wrong, your not supposed to try and combo as quickly as possible.

esp post board.

just play more dispel

Wow, thanks that detailed elaboration. /s

Of course it's not about going for the combo asap, but then i have the chance in hand i will go for it. Especially in "hard" matchups where it's necessary. Even if the combo fizzles, there are other ways to win. Of course i don't throw all my gas from my hand on the board when i go for the combo.

you just said you commonly go for the combo and get path'd.


you should never combo unless your about to die, or you can protect it or they don't have ways to interact with it. like if their playing mono green ramp

your playing the deck wrong.

I have the deck built except I'm having trouble finding Snaps so I've been subbing the new Jace until I can reaquire some. Jace has been doing very well and I really only care about the instant speed with remand and cryptic so I'm really thinking about keeping some in after getting Snaps. I'm curious if anyone else has tried him. I'm currently playing a low land count with gitprobes to give Jace more spells to bring back. Yes, he dies a lot, but I've been finding my opponents kill him, then Tas, then can't stop the combo.

Jace is like Dark Confidant/Youung Pyromancer. dies very easily, but if he lives he is great like really really great. not a replacement for snap at all but he can be good, I just prefer not to play him.

small edit : went to play some modern at my local shoppe and get to play against 3 merfolk players and burn. oh joy


go 2-2, the games against merfolk were very close, one of the players just drew like a god and was unbeatable, the other 2 games were funner. burn is very tough but he was very new and was playing suboptimal cards

Quote from Gul_Dukat »

you just said you commonly go for the combo and get path'd.


you should never combo unless your about to die, or you can protect it or they don't have ways to interact with it. like if their playing mono green ramp

your playing the deck wrong.

Ok, easy there.

First, @PraiseTheKappa, I will say that I do agree with Gul_Dukat that Pact of Negation is not ideal. I'd almost call it unplayable in this deck at the moment. There are just too many cases where you need your protection spell for other purposes. We aren't hyper focused on the combo, but even if you are trying to jam it on turn 4/5, more often than not, cards like Inquisition and Dispel will do almost the same job as Pact (if not better sometimes), while being much better in any noncombo situation. Especially with all the burn decks and blue mirrors running around, I'd highly recommend those two over Pact. Straight U/R Twin would be more likely to play Pact, given their reliance on the combo and ability to support it a little better, but even they are more likely to play stuff like Spellskite and Dispel instead. That said, if you still want to test it for yourself, you absolutely should.

@Gul_Dukat, chill out dude. He's new to the deck, and is simply asking for advice. No need to berate him and tell him he's playing the deck wrong. I wouldn't exactly call this sound advice either:

you should never combo unless your about to die, or you can protect it or they don't have ways to interact with it

When to combo is a very sensitive choice, yes, but you can't limit yourself to restrictions like this, just as you can't always jam the combo on turn 4. Sometimes you try and jam the combo even if you aren't about to die, or you aren't sure they have interaction. Usually, yes you wait until the coast is clear or you are forced to combo under pressure, but sometimes those things are unknown and you still have to go for it. There is no "wrong" way to play the deck, it's personal preference.

At the very least though, have some respect. Don't just yell at a fellow poster for not knowing the optimal way to play this strategy. Be helpful. That's what the threads are for. Saying something like this would be much more preferable:

"In general, it's better to wait for the combo until you have a good opening, or you are forced to try and win before your opponent kills you. Sometimes you jam it on turn 4, but usually you are better off waiting until you can protect the combo, or when your opponent taps out foolishly. Running into removal every time is a sure sign you are being too hasty with the combo. Just take your time, and remember to do everything at their EOT whenever possible to give you maximum control over the game."

That's much more constructive advice for Kappa than, "you're doing it wrong."

Thanks. That's some advice i can work with.

I have tested with the pact for a bit and in fact it was not as useful as i expected. I just run 2 Dispel MD and 2 Dispel SB now for protection.

Also i went down to 2 Tasigur MD and 1 Tasigur SB. Not sure if that is enough, but playing a 4-of legendary creature tends to clog up your hand quite a bit i guess? Also i imagine it makes Tasigur activations weaker because the opponent can just hand you another Tasigur?

I would recommend maybe 3 Dispel total. 4 is a lot, and there are times when you only really want to see the first copy. I'd recommend discard, or other countermagic in place of the last one. Spellskite is also a fine replacement, as it's quite relevant against several opposing combo decks as well.

3 Tasigur is plenty. You always want to draw one, sometimes 2 in the face of removal. But yes they get awkward in multiples. A key trick is exiling the first when you cast the second.

I'm not a huge fan of Bitterblossom. It's good in a few matchups, but the lifeloss and timing issues keep it from being as flexible as a bomb as some of the other options. Considering we already are hurting for the lack of lifegain, it just seems too risky to me, even in matchups where it should theoretically shine (like against Grixis and Jundy decks). It's also a pretty disappointing topdeck compared with the more expensive options.

I'd personally recommend other options to fight the grindier matchups. Olivia is one option, though she's less exciting against any red deck due to Lightning Bolt making her a huge liability. Jace AOT is a great option vs. control decks, and also does similar work as Olivia against weanie decks and anything token themed. He's particularly good against Junk since they have very few answers and he blanks their Souls reasonably well.

Keranos is an obvious inclusion, and some people have run 2 as their finisher. And some people will throw a 3rd Tasigur in the board, but that seems unexciting to me.
Personally, I've been loving the 1-of Grave Titan as my top end. Not only is he good in the face of removal, but he also puts down a clock that's just as comparable with something like Thundermaw, and he is probably the single best way to stabilize in any sort of creature matchup when you are almost out of gas. He is expensive, but in the matchups where you want him it's pretty easy to get to the late game 6+ mana, and if you aren't hitting 6 mana it probably means you're drawing gas anyway and can pitch him to a discard spell or whatever, only to get him back with Kommand later. But as far as top end threats go, he's by far my favorite.

He doesn't jive all that well with Blood Moon, but that's only really relevant against BG/x decks, and you can tune your build to accommodate this slightly. I run more non-shock duals than I used to, and I also have a 1/1 split of Magus/Blood Moon to give me outs in the event I want to cast Titan but have Magus in play (a line like Bolt my own Magus, cast Gravy Train, Kommand back Magus is still pretty acceptable against Jund). Magus is also tech against Amulet and Tron when they side into a host of enchantment hate post board.

Anyway, aside from Titan, and the aforementioned Jace/Olivia/Tas/Hellkite options, there are a few other threats I'd recommend testing out:

-Wurmcoil (basically Titan that you can cast under a Moon, but worse against Kommand decks)
-Ashiok (not a fan personally, but others have liked it)
-Mulldrifter (super value with Kommand, but too durdly for me)
-Teferi (too blue intensive for me, not all that exciting unless you are all in on combo)

Other points:

1 Thoughtseize is fine. It's for combo matchups, so you either draw it an it's relevant, or you don't and it doesn't matter. Having 1 discard spell in general is a bit awkward yes, but not if you intend it for a particular match like that.

Dismember has advantages over GftT, namely against Affinity and because you can cast it for 1, which is relevant against a lot of decks, the mirror especially.

I've also played with 5 tappers and 4 twin and it's been fine. I never really noticed missing out on finding a tapper on time, though I'm sure it was still relevant. Deep down I know that 6 + 4 combo pieces is ideal, but sometimes you want less than 10 and need to cut something. I think in certain metas, slimming down to even 8 combo pieces is fine, but it's all about personal preference and meta calls.

Even if you're playing against Affinity decks with 2 Skite + 4 Blast main, it should still be a favorable matchup. If they're going that deep, then maybe you shave a couple combo pieces post board and try to grind them out. But that maindeck seems pretty terrible against a lot of other matchups for them, so they are certainly sacrificing power elsewhere to try and beat you. Which makes sense, since we are the nightmare match for them.

If you're facing a deck like that, I'd recommend having a 3rd Kommand in your board. Staticaster helps, but I still prefer the sweepers, especially because Snapcaster Mage can flash them back. If they are so set on beating your combo, you can just play the long game and grind them out, eventually killing them with Tasigur, Pests, Snaps, and Bolts. Olivia isn't terrible against them either, which might be reason for you to keep her around, though I still think she might be a trap there. Seems good, but in actuality might be too slow. In any case, you can either ignore their hate pieces by grinding them out, or you can beat them anyway thanks to Kommand, Terminate, and discard spells taking their 1 piece of interaction away. The matchup is hugely favored for us, and even 6 maindeck interaction spells won't change that. Just keep testing the match, you'll figure out how to crush them consistently.

EDIT: Here is my sideboard. I would consider Murderous Cut and Vendilion Clique the flex slots. My main is back to 6 tappers, 2 discard spells, 2 Kommand, 1 Cryptic, 1 dispel, 1 snare. The rest is standard. You can find it a page or so back.

wurmcoil engine is better than both in most circumstances.


lingering souls has not disappeared at all.

and UR twin is not reliant on the combo.