100% agree. without a shuffle effect like emrakul/day's undoing/elixer, i dont think you can drop a PTW. in fact, i think its one of the best cards there. Snapcaster/TiTi beats just doesnt get there. getting to 9 is really important. burning 1-2 happens alot considering "***** happens". -__-;
i do like walk the aeons. but my reasoning was because sometimes, you have to start the chain early, without a dictate in play. and needing 5 for the time warp + 3 for the dictate is very improbable.
miracling mastery + casting dictate is the best thing to do. but that's unreliable. that was my reasoning for trespass. but i guess there's not necesarily a bunch of stuff in the yard. so :/ to that too.
not exactly sure what you could cut for the 4th PTW, i think if it was a card it'd be 4x timewarp, 4x PTW, 3x mastery? idunno that feels loose too. but idunno.
I have played with Snapcaster and Snapcaster beats can definitely get there, even without a way to reshuffle. On the flip side, I have on more than one occasion have had to burn 2 Part the Waterveil before I've had 9 lands to awaken with it. Hell, one game, I had to burn three and got there with the 4th.
My warp package is 4 Time Warp, 4 Part the Waterveil, and 2 Walk the Aeons. Think I'm the only one jamming this deck without Temporal Mastery. Miracle is nice, but back when I did run it, I didn't care for the consistency issues I had with it, and having an opening hand with 2+ felt terrible.
I have played with Snapcaster and Snapcaster beats can definitely get there, even without a way to reshuffle. On the flip side, I have on more than one occasion have had to burn 2 Part the Waterveil before I've had 9 lands to awaken with it. Hell, one game, I had to burn three and got there with the 4th.
My warp package is 4 Time Warp, 4 Part the Waterveil, and 2 Walk the Aeons. Think I'm the only one jamming this deck without Temporal Mastery. Miracle is nice, but back when I did run it, I didn't care for the consistency issues I had with it, and having an opening hand with 2+ felt terrible.
Small note:
The more ptw one plays, the more likely he will have to play before the 9 mana. Maybe that s why with 2 that Doesn t happen to me
I have played with Snapcaster and Snapcaster beats can definitely get there, even without a way to reshuffle. On the flip side, I have on more than one occasion have had to burn 2 Part the Waterveil before I've had 9 lands to awaken with it. Hell, one game, I had to burn three and got there with the 4th.
My warp package is 4 Time Warp, 4 Part the Waterveil, and 2 Walk the Aeons. Think I'm the only one jamming this deck without Temporal Mastery. Miracle is nice, but back when I did run it, I didn't care for the consistency issues I had with it, and having an opening hand with 2+ felt terrible.
Small note:
The more ptw one plays, the more likely he will have to play before the 9 mana. Maybe that s why with 2 that Doesn t happen to me
Statistically, the argument you are making doesn't follow. In a small sample size it can certainly feel that way, but i can assure you now that in the case of a card such as this (where burning one early is perfectly fine btw, it isn't a dead card like Emrakul), running less doesn't make you meaningfully less likely to brick by drawing them too early. Not enough to significantly cut down on them, at any rate.
I feel like at this point, the success of this deck in recent times can be attributed to this one card, and pulling away from it to dip into less streamlined options is probably the wrong way to go. I still see streamers playing janky versions of this deck, which is fair enough for them individually, but doesn't help the community a great deal, unfortunately.
I'm going to consider dropping a mastery temporarily (sorry for the pun) and see what 4ptw and 3 mastery gets me. I'll test against Infect, delver (tough matchup), death's shadow, abzan, Elves, tron, Jund and whatever else I can get my hands on.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
I have played with Snapcaster and Snapcaster beats can definitely get there, even without a way to reshuffle. On the flip side, I have on more than one occasion have had to burn 2 Part the Waterveil before I've had 9 lands to awaken with it. Hell, one game, I had to burn three and got there with the 4th.
My warp package is 4 Time Warp, 4 Part the Waterveil, and 2 Walk the Aeons. Think I'm the only one jamming this deck without Temporal Mastery. Miracle is nice, but back when I did run it, I didn't care for the consistency issues I had with it, and having an opening hand with 2+ felt terrible.
Small note:
The more ptw one plays, the more likely he will have to play before the 9 mana. Maybe that s why with 2 that Doesn t happen to me
Statistically, the argument you are making doesn't follow. In a small sample size it can certainly feel that way, but i can assure you now that in the case of a card such as this (where burning one early is perfectly fine btw, it isn't a dead card like Emrakul), running less doesn't make you meaningfully less likely to brick by drawing them too early. Not enough to significantly cut down on them, at any rate.
I feel like at this point, the success of this deck in recent times can be attributed to this one card, and pulling away from it to dip into less streamlined options is probably the wrong way to go. I still see streamers playing janky versions of this deck, which is fair enough for them individually, but doesn't help the community a great deal, unfortunately.
I'm going to consider dropping a mastery temporarily (sorry for the pun) and see what 4ptw and 3 mastery gets me. I'll test against Infect, delver (tough matchup), death's shadow, abzan, Elves, tron, Jund and whatever else I can get my hands on.
We should focus on understanding how to evaluate a extra turn card. Maybe i do that wrong? When choosing the 12 warp i went with 8 "it Does get me there" for warp and mastery then 2 ptw to animate and 2 warps with unique effects i think i needed. Never had a problem with 2 ptw and i dont have a room for the third anyway
I am running just 9 real extra turn effects to have more space for early interaction like Exhaustion and Gigadrowse, and I usually never miss a Time Warp or lock via Exhaustion/Gigadrowse, so I don't see a reason for that many. My actual composition has proven worthy on GP Lille already:
4 Time Warp
1 Part the Waterveil
1 Walk the Aeons
3 Temporal Mastery
Though I also run other wincons than PtW (Jace and the Eldrazi), I played 2-3 PtW in a version without Extraplanar Lens.
Greetings
I am in love with Howling Mine in my Amulet of Vigor version because it can be found by Ancient Stirrings. With Howling Mine, Stirrings can find raw card draw instead of only mana like Amulet or lands. Mikokoro, Center of the Sea is another form of card draw it can find. Between Serum Visions, Amulet, and Stirrings the deck has 12(!) one drops that make it consistent and smooth. Stirrings is the best cantrip in Modern and playing with Howling Mine is another way to abuse it.
I play 3 Howling Mine but it feels like more because of Stirrings. However it has been so good that I've contemplated going up to 4. My other mine effects are 4 Rites of Flourishing and 3 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy. Howling Mine is just a great curve filler. Playing Time Warp + Howling Mine or Time Warp + Jace, VP in the same turn is big game. I think it's better in my deck than stock Taking Turns because I'm usually going off on turn 4, not turn 5 or 6, which means the opponent is getting less cards if I play Howling Mine on turn 2.
My warps are 4 Time Warp, 4 Part the Waterveil and 2 Savor the Moment. I don't recommend Savor without Amulet but it's the nuts with Amulet. Savor is another reason to play more Howling Mines because the sequence of turn 2 Howling Mine, t3 Savor is very strong.
I've been out of the loop for a while now, so this might have been discussed already, but has anyone tried day's undoing as a sideboard card against dredge?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Huey, Dewey and Louie are always dressed in RUG. it is CLEARLY going to be the wedges block Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
Ayo purklefluff. I'm playing the SCG invitational this weekend. You mind shipping me the 75 you think you'd game?
Thanks!!
yo, thanks for the shout.
my 60 maindeck is fairly solid at the moment (more on this later), the sideboard not so much, and you should use your intuition there. i'll tell you what i'd definitely include, and you fill in the blanks, i guess =).
beyond that, season to taste. i'm currently maxing out on 4x leyline and 3x chalice, because I never want to lose to burn, and I hate decks with heavy discard. Chalice also neuters infect and death's shadow (although the latter can still be tricky, but gigadrowse helps).
other options - vendilion clique, timely reinforcements, path to exile, stony silence, yadda yadda the list goes on. you'll know your own metagame better than me obviously. use your local knowledge.
couple of pointers:
- you can play gigadrowse through chalice (copies don't get countered)
- gigadrowse their stuff in their end step when you want to force through a critical spell, or in your first main phase - they will float mana, go to combat and continue casting stuff in safety in your second main. simple but these things can slip your mind at a big tournament.
- ghostly prison is usually better than you expect it to be, in all kinds of matchups.
- never side out Thing in the Ice (tried it a few times, seemed reasonable at the time but i wouldn't recommend it)
- try not to side too much in at once. do it in reverse (i.e. instead of looking at what to bring in, look at what needs to come out. Remands are usually a good bet game 2 against aggro, for example)
- You can always beat Eldrazi. haha. Practice the matchup if you can, it's highly favourable but you need to get your sequencing on point.
- if you can spare the time, and your opponent has open mana, try to tap down their lands before you cast your all-important part the waterveil. it can make the difference between win and loss (for instance if they have a path in hand, for your 6/6 animated land)
- don't drop your dictate when you've only got 3 mana on board (unless there's a really good reason for it, which can happen). drop it when you've got 4, so you can untap, play your 5th land and go off with time warp.
that's about it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
You could actually make a pretty good budget-ish version of the deck (see below) and then add things like Cryptics and Snaps later. Is it strong against the meta? It depends, but it is a solid deck. Somewhere on the level of Stompy, Skred, etc. If more people played it I could see it spiking a big tournament.
If you can cast a spell, you're doing well, If you can't, that's okay, too. It usually takes a few turns before you have enough mana to do anything. Meanwhile, you should figure out whether you need to discard (p.11). Then announce the end of your turn, and let your opponent have a go.
I mean it's not going to be favorable against everything, particularly decks like Burn and Infect (although it looks like purklefluff has made a lot of progress in that regard) but pretty much everything besides aggro you feel like you're in God mode. Don't buy it if you're looking for a tier 1 deck, it's really more of a Johnny deck at heart.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you can cast a spell, you're doing well, If you can't, that's okay, too. It usually takes a few turns before you have enough mana to do anything. Meanwhile, you should figure out whether you need to discard (p.11). Then announce the end of your turn, and let your opponent have a go.
It has gotten top 8 at large events, but it's not too 8ing as often as something like dredge or affinity for a few reasons.
1 - Linear decks can out pace it in the first few turns
2 - not many people play the deck
3 - its biggest weakness are fast aggressive decks which seem to be popular at large events.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Decks:
Modern Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Legacy Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
would you say that the way to go is now 4 snaps and 4 bolts because recently a lot of winning deck splashed red for lightning bolt and added a few snaps to deal with aggro decks early. In my opinion it`S not bad in the current fast meta but that doesnt mean it superior to all decks .In some control match-ups lightning Bolt seems like a weak draw.
TitI didnt fully satisfy me, as well as Snapcaster Mage in Mono blue. But jace vryn's prodigy i played him as a one of but i think about playing 2-3.
Another point is ancestral vision i fine card most of the times and sometimes totaly nuts I would always play at lest 2 maindeck. Sometimes its just mediocore but that`s fine to me i guess.
I`´ll test the amulet version as well because i already own both decks and davemo88 got me interresed
Tough call. I've tried the red splash and found it to be a bit clunky, however I fully recognise that i was playing a "first draft" version of this build and it definitely felt like it could be refined. Especially in terms of the manabase, which needs to be able to make 1RR on turn 3 and 1UUU on turn 4. There are some excellent options for a version splashing red and I'm not ruling it out at all, but for the moment I've gone back to a mono blue maindeck and a white/blue sideboard.
And yea, I've tried to make inroads as far as improving my aggro matchups and I've had som good success. Cards like supreme verdict, ghostly prison and timely reinforcements are all good options. Even after improving these matchups, they remain approximately 50/50, are influenced heavily by correct sequencing, and decks with heavy discard (8-rack, Jund) are difficult matchups. This isn't anything new, as any combo deck has struggled against Jund, but it's worth mentioning.
As for strictly positive matchups, there are a few;
- Eldrazi
- Tron
- Jeskai/whatever control
- Any midrangey deck hoping to control the board e.g. skred
- Stompy, plus any deck hoping to overwhelm with big threats rather than smaller quicker ones.
slightly favourable matchups which can vary depending on a few details;
- Dredge
- Melira company
- Merfolk
- Burn
50/50
- Infect
- Suicide zoo
Slightly unfavourable
- Abzan
- Affinity
Poor matchups
- Jund
- 8-rack
- Ad nauseam
I obviously haven't listed all decks. I'm sitting on my phone in the car while the ice melts from my windscreen so this is totally rushed, but i thought you might appreciate a quick reply. I've tried to give a rough idea of the types of decks and how they match up against my personal version of the deck (with white sideboard cards)
Other versions will have a different spread of matchups. The red splash version will be different again. It's a tough call, but despite beinf a bit of fun, i'd rank this deck as being the best "unplayed" deck in modern, insofar as it's very rare to see it, people are kind of aware of it but don't know how to play against it, and it does remarkably well. I've certainly had more success with this deck than any other, since the ban of eye of ugin (before the ban I was a big tron player) and twin bans (before that was a twin player) and it's been a blast.
Bear in mind this deck has a certain style of play that doesn't suit everyone. I've honed my version into a fast-winning version because I can't stand going to time and I play a lot of tournaments. Most of my matches are over in about 20 minutes so it's good for me. Not for everyone. I've seen people buy into the deck and sell it after a single FNM. Proxy it first
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
i do like walk the aeons. but my reasoning was because sometimes, you have to start the chain early, without a dictate in play. and needing 5 for the time warp + 3 for the dictate is very improbable.
miracling mastery + casting dictate is the best thing to do. but that's unreliable. that was my reasoning for trespass. but i guess there's not necesarily a bunch of stuff in the yard. so :/ to that too.
not exactly sure what you could cut for the 4th PTW, i think if it was a card it'd be 4x timewarp, 4x PTW, 3x mastery? idunno that feels loose too. but idunno.
My turns package is
And i m very happy with it
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
My warp package is 4 Time Warp, 4 Part the Waterveil, and 2 Walk the Aeons. Think I'm the only one jamming this deck without Temporal Mastery. Miracle is nice, but back when I did run it, I didn't care for the consistency issues I had with it, and having an opening hand with 2+ felt terrible.
Commander
U Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive
RG Zilortha, Strength Incarnate
WB Amalia Benavides Aguirre
Small note:
The more ptw one plays, the more likely he will have to play before the 9 mana. Maybe that s why with 2 that Doesn t happen to me
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
Statistically, the argument you are making doesn't follow. In a small sample size it can certainly feel that way, but i can assure you now that in the case of a card such as this (where burning one early is perfectly fine btw, it isn't a dead card like Emrakul), running less doesn't make you meaningfully less likely to brick by drawing them too early. Not enough to significantly cut down on them, at any rate.
I feel like at this point, the success of this deck in recent times can be attributed to this one card, and pulling away from it to dip into less streamlined options is probably the wrong way to go. I still see streamers playing janky versions of this deck, which is fair enough for them individually, but doesn't help the community a great deal, unfortunately.
I'm going to consider dropping a mastery temporarily (sorry for the pun) and see what 4ptw and 3 mastery gets me. I'll test against Infect, delver (tough matchup), death's shadow, abzan, Elves, tron, Jund and whatever else I can get my hands on.
We should focus on understanding how to evaluate a extra turn card. Maybe i do that wrong? When choosing the 12 warp i went with 8 "it Does get me there" for warp and mastery then 2 ptw to animate and 2 warps with unique effects i think i needed. Never had a problem with 2 ptw and i dont have a room for the third anyway
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
4 Time Warp
1 Part the Waterveil
1 Walk the Aeons
3 Temporal Mastery
Though I also run other wincons than PtW (Jace and the Eldrazi), I played 2-3 PtW in a version without Extraplanar Lens.
Greetings
I play 3 Howling Mine but it feels like more because of Stirrings. However it has been so good that I've contemplated going up to 4. My other mine effects are 4 Rites of Flourishing and 3 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy. Howling Mine is just a great curve filler. Playing Time Warp + Howling Mine or Time Warp + Jace, VP in the same turn is big game. I think it's better in my deck than stock Taking Turns because I'm usually going off on turn 4, not turn 5 or 6, which means the opponent is getting less cards if I play Howling Mine on turn 2.
My warps are 4 Time Warp, 4 Part the Waterveil and 2 Savor the Moment. I don't recommend Savor without Amulet but it's the nuts with Amulet. Savor is another reason to play more Howling Mines because the sequence of turn 2 Howling Mine, t3 Savor is very strong.
Thanks!!
Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons
ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
yo, thanks for the shout.
my 60 maindeck is fairly solid at the moment (more on this later), the sideboard not so much, and you should use your intuition there. i'll tell you what i'd definitely include, and you fill in the blanks, i guess =).
4x temporal mastery
3x part the waterveil
4x dictate of kruphix
2x thing in the ice
2x snapcaster mage
4x gigadrowse
3x exhaustion
3x cryptic command
4x remand
4x flooded strand
3x prairie stream
2x hallowed fountain
1x mystic gate
1x inkmoth nexus
1x gemstone caverns
1x mikokoro, center of the sea
1x oboro, palace in the clouds (could just be the 10th island)
9x island
here's my sideboard core:
2x ghostly prison
2x supreme verdict
beyond that, season to taste. i'm currently maxing out on 4x leyline and 3x chalice, because I never want to lose to burn, and I hate decks with heavy discard. Chalice also neuters infect and death's shadow (although the latter can still be tricky, but gigadrowse helps).
other options - vendilion clique, timely reinforcements, path to exile, stony silence, yadda yadda the list goes on. you'll know your own metagame better than me obviously. use your local knowledge.
couple of pointers:
- you can play gigadrowse through chalice (copies don't get countered)
- gigadrowse their stuff in their end step when you want to force through a critical spell, or in your first main phase - they will float mana, go to combat and continue casting stuff in safety in your second main. simple but these things can slip your mind at a big tournament.
- ghostly prison is usually better than you expect it to be, in all kinds of matchups.
- never side out Thing in the Ice (tried it a few times, seemed reasonable at the time but i wouldn't recommend it)
- try not to side too much in at once. do it in reverse (i.e. instead of looking at what to bring in, look at what needs to come out. Remands are usually a good bet game 2 against aggro, for example)
- You can always beat Eldrazi. haha. Practice the matchup if you can, it's highly favourable but you need to get your sequencing on point.
- if you can spare the time, and your opponent has open mana, try to tap down their lands before you cast your all-important part the waterveil. it can make the difference between win and loss (for instance if they have a path in hand, for your 6/6 animated land)
- don't drop your dictate when you've only got 3 mana on board (unless there's a really good reason for it, which can happen). drop it when you've got 4, so you can untap, play your 5th land and go off with time warp.
that's about it.
4x Howling Mine (or Thing in the Ice)
4x Serum Visions
4x Remand
4x Time Warp
4x Part the Waterveil
4x Temporal Mastery
4x Exhaustion
4x Gigadrowse
4x Radiant Fountain
20x Island
1 - Linear decks can out pace it in the first few turns
2 - not many people play the deck
3 - its biggest weakness are fast aggressive decks which seem to be popular at large events.
Tough call. I've tried the red splash and found it to be a bit clunky, however I fully recognise that i was playing a "first draft" version of this build and it definitely felt like it could be refined. Especially in terms of the manabase, which needs to be able to make 1RR on turn 3 and 1UUU on turn 4. There are some excellent options for a version splashing red and I'm not ruling it out at all, but for the moment I've gone back to a mono blue maindeck and a white/blue sideboard.
And yea, I've tried to make inroads as far as improving my aggro matchups and I've had som good success. Cards like supreme verdict, ghostly prison and timely reinforcements are all good options. Even after improving these matchups, they remain approximately 50/50, are influenced heavily by correct sequencing, and decks with heavy discard (8-rack, Jund) are difficult matchups. This isn't anything new, as any combo deck has struggled against Jund, but it's worth mentioning.
As for strictly positive matchups, there are a few;
- Eldrazi
- Tron
- Jeskai/whatever control
- Any midrangey deck hoping to control the board e.g. skred
- Stompy, plus any deck hoping to overwhelm with big threats rather than smaller quicker ones.
slightly favourable matchups which can vary depending on a few details;
- Dredge
- Melira company
- Merfolk
- Burn
50/50
- Infect
- Suicide zoo
Slightly unfavourable
- Abzan
- Affinity
Poor matchups
- Jund
- 8-rack
- Ad nauseam
I obviously haven't listed all decks. I'm sitting on my phone in the car while the ice melts from my windscreen so this is totally rushed, but i thought you might appreciate a quick reply. I've tried to give a rough idea of the types of decks and how they match up against my personal version of the deck (with white sideboard cards)
Other versions will have a different spread of matchups. The red splash version will be different again. It's a tough call, but despite beinf a bit of fun, i'd rank this deck as being the best "unplayed" deck in modern, insofar as it's very rare to see it, people are kind of aware of it but don't know how to play against it, and it does remarkably well. I've certainly had more success with this deck than any other, since the ban of eye of ugin (before the ban I was a big tron player) and twin bans (before that was a twin player) and it's been a blast.
Bear in mind this deck has a certain style of play that doesn't suit everyone. I've honed my version into a fast-winning version because I can't stand going to time and I play a lot of tournaments. Most of my matches are over in about 20 minutes so it's good for me. Not for everyone. I've seen people buy into the deck and sell it after a single FNM. Proxy it first
great tip.. didn't know that mana pool clears at the end of each phase. always thought they could float mana until end of turn.
sorry i don't quite understand, against aggro do we side out remands or keep it in for game 2?
@xenob8
"sometimes i do gigadrowe at 1 against fetches to force them and bounce the land they get."
can i know how this works?
side 'em out =), specifically for really powerful roadblocks like ghostly prison or whatever you happen to be running.
They fetch in response
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
Ub turns viable now? Getting a mine for free seems very nice
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island