i've gotten destroyed by UW Tron. They just seem to have too many counterspells and during my boarded game i couldn't find spreading seas in time for their urza land. Are there any tips to combat counterspell-heavy decks? i'm guessing boseiju would be one of the ways right? the only other thing that i can think of is sphinx of the final word but at 7 cmc it doesn't seem logical in modern.
lost to bant eldrazi as i didn't know that i should be boarding in 4x leylines to combat Thought Knot Seer. Got all my relevant cards exiled with the TKS & displacer combo. question: if they use displacer to blink TKS, after i draw a card due to TKS leaving the battlefield, can i cast that card i just drew before TKS's ETB trigger happens?
Control decks are normally fine, as we tend to run a playset (or at least 3) gigadrowse, which has in the past been a popular anti-control sideboard card. We are basically pre-boarded against them.
In their end step, tap down their lands (or blue sources) and from there just go to town. Gigadrowse can't be countered in the normal sense because it makes copies, so they have to counter every copy to nullify the effect. Normally that's not possible.
I suspect if you're having issues against control, you need to work on sequencing, and also probably just bide your time. Especially against UW tron which is a really slow deck to begin with. Forcing stuff through should be a doddle.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
Towards the Control MU: Gigadrowse is all you will need. Though Remand and Exhaustion are also good to some extend. If you have a lot of problems with Control decks in your local meta, you could go up to 4 Gigadrowse in your 75.
And for Bant Eldrazi: This is one of the best MUs for Taking Turns in my experience. Gigadrowse for 1 or 2 to tap their big mana lands is close to a Time Warp, Exhaustion is great and they usually don't have a lot of SB options (beside 4 Stubborn Denial, be aware of those). Just use Gigadrowse early on, so you can turn them into a bad Midrange Beatdown Pile.
Greetings
PS: Ancestral Visions is one of the best cards in this deck. There are several important things I'd like to notice:
- first, and most important, the opponent draws exactly 0 cards off of it. So you draw 3 cards within 4 turns, which is one less than via Howling Mine. But by "HM" your opponent drew 4 additional cards as well (not mentioning Time Warp effects, but those also improve AV)
- second, as long as you're on the play, AV won't be catched by 1-mana Discard spells (hello, BGx)
- third, it can't get destroyed by Abrupt Decay (hello again) or other Artifact hate
So alongside etb-tapped Lands, AV might be slightly worse. But I would never move to less than 2 MB, and no less than 4 in my 75.
Av is a card you play it as a 0x of of a 4x of
And it is bad for the deck. More Drawing Power is not What the deck needs... I can see only lists with 3/4 titi to get a free -1 Counter of it
One mana do nothing to help survive / control the game is just bad. We do not want this.
Ps cotv at 0 or remand against it are badly bad
Also it isnt flashbackable with snapcaster
i've gotten destroyed by UW Tron. They just seem to have too many counterspells and during my boarded game i couldn't find spreading seas in time for their urza land. Are there any tips to combat counterspell-heavy decks? i'm guessing boseiju would be one of the ways right? the only other thing that i can think of is sphinx of the final word but at 7 cmc it doesn't seem logical in modern.
lost to bant eldrazi as i didn't know that i should be boarding in 4x leylines to combat Thought Knot Seer. Got all my relevant cards exiled with the TKS & displacer combo. question: if they use displacer to blink TKS, after i draw a card due to TKS leaving the battlefield, can i cast that card i just drew before TKS's ETB trigger happens?
To answer your question, yes, you draw the card from TKS leaving, it comes back and it's ETB trigger goes on the stack in which you have the chance to respond. Leyline just to combat TKS seems like overkill imo. If they got the Displacer/TKS combo going, you were either far too slow at disrupting him, or he drew an amazing nut draw.
As others have said, heavy counterspell decks are good matchups. Stall, land a Dictate, Gigadrowse their lands down, and Warp off. Don't be afraid to land a dictate on your own turn if they tap out, giving control decks the extra draw is negligible. UW Tron is slightly more scary because of the possibility of the Iona lock, but that should be manageable to play around.
lost to bant eldrazi as i didn't know that i should be boarding in 4x leylines to combat Thought Knot Seer.
you shouldn't be doing this. Remand, Exhaustion, Gigadrowse are all you need for this matchup, it's a really easy one, very much in our favour.
for what it's worth though, when I *did* sideboard, it would often be stuff like Supreme Verdict, which they really don't have an answer for. Ghostly Prison was also a nice option, and perhaps a little more relevant early in the game.
bear in mind they only have 4 cards that can interact with your hand in their entire deck - the rest of their deck is just a stompy midrange pile, so all you have to do is remand/cryptic their thought-knots, and spend a couple of turns keeping their stuff tapped via exhaustion or a well-placed gigadrowse. once you hit 4 or 5 mana, more often than not you are free to just go off and win the game.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
I usually don't play AV for additional carddraw, but instead of Howling Mine. And CotV is just plain bad SB strategy against Taking Turns. And if he Remand's my AV his Remand is gone for that instead of a Time Warp.
The problem taking turns has are the first 4 turns of a match since after turn 5/6 we are usually going to win anyway
Av does nothing to help reach turn 5 alive: /
Hey i m not saying it is not powerfull. It is almost Power 9 powerfull. One mana draw 3 is strong in whatever deck... But imho it is not what the deck needs. I d prefer even a one mana gigadrowse to tap a Land instead of suspending av tbh.
By the way Yes if you jump in the av train it is a 4x obligatory
Ps. I wanted to be a bit more Poor so i got a foil snapcaster 0/
The problem taking turns has are the first 4 turns of a match since after turn 5/6 we are usually going to win anyway
Av does nothing to help reach turn 5 alive: /
Hey i m not saying it is not powerfull. It is almost Power 9 powerfull. One mana draw 3 is strong in whatever deck... But imho it is not what the deck needs. I d prefer even a one mana gigadrowse to tap a Land instead of suspending av tbh.
By the way Yes if you jump in the av train it is a 4x obligatory
Ps. I wanted to be a bit more Poor so i got a foil snapcaster 0/
I m Missing interaction... 12 Interactive cards aren't enough i guess. Have to get used to titi and snappy
Counting Exhaustion, I'm running 16. I understand why you're running it, but I really think you should drop the Emrakul/Jace Beleren package. Emrakul is a dead card more often than not, and with Part the Waterveil/Thing in the Ice/Snapcaster Mage, the need to reshuffle is non-existent. I have been running the deck for a while without, and I haven't lost a single game from decking myself.
Also not sure how many of you have run into Dredge recently, but Echoing Truth is so good in that matchup.
I understand why you're running it, but I really think you should drop the Emrakul/Jace Beleren package. Emrakul is a dead card more often than not, and with Part the Waterveil/Thing in the Ice/Snapcaster Mage, the need to reshuffle is non-existent. I have been running the deck for a while without, and I haven't lost a single game from decking myself.
Also not sure how many of you have run into Dredge recently, but Echoing Truth is so good in that matchup.
Definitely no need for Emrakul - complete overkill especially when you have Cryptic to clear the way. I'd cut it for another Part the Waterveil.
It is nice to have a non-damage/attacking wincon in Jace Beleren but I don't think it's necessary. However I do think Jace, Vryn's Prodigy is good enough to play at least 2 main, perhaps over some Snapcaster Mage and Thing in the Ice, and he can mill the opponent too.
In other news, I recently won a game vs Lantern Control with Ensnaring Bridge in play by using Mikokoro, Center of the Sea to fill the opponent's hand and let my 6/6 lands through. LOL
I think i ll move titi and snapcaster in side to get back to creatureless and have em enter game 2 when opponent sides out removal. I Always have a one or two cards in the 60 as easy to side out cards... Idk i like to play that way.
Having jace + emrakul and titi / snapcaster both isnt that Good yup.. To me 6 mines effect is a must btw, is the right number to have
I ll test some narrow card from the list someone posted the other day!
Well, that's true for practically any card in this deck.
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The mana curve of this deck needs a cmc 1 spell.
So the alternative to AV could be Unsummon, Spell Snare (OTD), Spell Pierce...
But no one use that cards, even if early interaction is important... why?
You mean that the 4 serum Visions and 4 gigadrowse aren't played for the 1cmc slots? 2 and 3 cmc Also counts as early interaction. B
The mana curve of this deck needs a cmc 1 spell.
So the alternative to AV could be Unsummon, Spell Snare (OTD), Spell Pierce...
But no one use that cards, even if early interaction is important... why?
Because they're all very narrow. At one more mana, you can get cards that have a lot more versatility like Boomerang, Remand, and Unsubstantiate. Personally, I don't think Ancestral Vision is bad for the deck, but I don't think it's as amazing as a lot of people make it out to be. Our biggest weakness is fast aggro, and Ancestral doesn't change that matchup in any really meaningful way. I'd say the decks it's good against are Jund/Junk which is good at denying us our resources, and if you have a lot of those decks in your meta, I'd say it's a good choice. Otherwise, I'd rather be packing more early interaction in order to stay alive against fast aggro.
so i'm playing this list now. titi, snapcaster and clique all sided it game 2 almost every match.
have two open slots in side and i don't know what should i put in there
also: has anyone tested 4x delver of secrets in the 75? i sometimes play it and it provides a lot of pressure
The mana curve of this deck needs a cmc 1 spell.
So the alternative to AV could be Unsummon, Spell Snare (OTD), Spell Pierce...
But no one use that cards, even if early interaction is important... why?
You mean that the 4 serum Visions and 4 gigadrowse aren't played for the 1cmc slots? 2 and 3 cmc Also counts as early interaction. B
And some lists do play the cards you listed
Has anyone here actually cast gigadrowse when you only have the single land up (ie: turn 1/2)? I see your point xenob8, but what we AV enthusiasts are trying to say is that on turn 1, rather than do nothing, or SV. SV is a decent turn 1 play but depending on your hand, and opponent, AV is likely better because it sets up the "turns" turns perfectly.
Go ahead and counter/remand my AV, I'll just cast my warp and then win. OR, don't counter my AV and I now have some major card advantage that you don't.
Control decks are normally fine, as we tend to run a playset (or at least 3) gigadrowse, which has in the past been a popular anti-control sideboard card. We are basically pre-boarded against them.
In their end step, tap down their lands (or blue sources) and from there just go to town. Gigadrowse can't be countered in the normal sense because it makes copies, so they have to counter every copy to nullify the effect. Normally that's not possible.
I suspect if you're having issues against control, you need to work on sequencing, and also probably just bide your time. Especially against UW tron which is a really slow deck to begin with. Forcing stuff through should be a doddle.
And for Bant Eldrazi: This is one of the best MUs for Taking Turns in my experience. Gigadrowse for 1 or 2 to tap their big mana lands is close to a Time Warp, Exhaustion is great and they usually don't have a lot of SB options (beside 4 Stubborn Denial, be aware of those). Just use Gigadrowse early on, so you can turn them into a bad Midrange Beatdown Pile.
Greetings
PS: Ancestral Visions is one of the best cards in this deck. There are several important things I'd like to notice:
- first, and most important, the opponent draws exactly 0 cards off of it. So you draw 3 cards within 4 turns, which is one less than via Howling Mine. But by "HM" your opponent drew 4 additional cards as well (not mentioning Time Warp effects, but those also improve AV)
- second, as long as you're on the play, AV won't be catched by 1-mana Discard spells (hello, BGx)
- third, it can't get destroyed by Abrupt Decay (hello again) or other Artifact hate
So alongside etb-tapped Lands, AV might be slightly worse. But I would never move to less than 2 MB, and no less than 4 in my 75.
And it is bad for the deck. More Drawing Power is not What the deck needs... I can see only lists with 3/4 titi to get a free -1 Counter of it
One mana do nothing to help survive / control the game is just bad. We do not want this.
Ps cotv at 0 or remand against it are badly bad
Also it isnt flashbackable with snapcaster
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
As others have said, heavy counterspell decks are good matchups. Stall, land a Dictate, Gigadrowse their lands down, and Warp off. Don't be afraid to land a dictate on your own turn if they tap out, giving control decks the extra draw is negligible. UW Tron is slightly more scary because of the possibility of the Iona lock, but that should be manageable to play around.
Commander
U Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive
RG Zilortha, Strength Incarnate
WB Amalia Benavides Aguirre
you shouldn't be doing this. Remand, Exhaustion, Gigadrowse are all you need for this matchup, it's a really easy one, very much in our favour.
for what it's worth though, when I *did* sideboard, it would often be stuff like Supreme Verdict, which they really don't have an answer for. Ghostly Prison was also a nice option, and perhaps a little more relevant early in the game.
bear in mind they only have 4 cards that can interact with your hand in their entire deck - the rest of their deck is just a stompy midrange pile, so all you have to do is remand/cryptic their thought-knots, and spend a couple of turns keeping their stuff tapped via exhaustion or a well-placed gigadrowse. once you hit 4 or 5 mana, more often than not you are free to just go off and win the game.
Av does nothing to help reach turn 5 alive: /
Hey i m not saying it is not powerfull. It is almost Power 9 powerfull. One mana draw 3 is strong in whatever deck... But imho it is not what the deck needs. I d prefer even a one mana gigadrowse to tap a Land instead of suspending av tbh.
By the way Yes if you jump in the av train it is a 4x obligatory
Ps. I wanted to be a bit more Poor so i got a foil snapcaster 0/
List updated
17 island
1 mikokoro, center of the sea
1 geier reach sanitarium
1 oboro, palace in the clouds
1 minamo, school at water's edge
1 gemstone caverns
1 inkmoth nexus
3 creatures:
1 emrakul, the aeons torn
1 thing in the ice
1 snapcaster mage
4 time warp
4 temporal mastery
1 walk the aeons
1 temporal trespass
2 part the waterveil
6 mine effects:
4 dictate of kruphix
1 howling mine
1 jace beleren
16 tempo and control:
4 gigadrowse
3 exhaustion
2 remand
1 boomerang
2 cryptic command
4 serum visions
4 chalice of the void
4 simian spirit guide
3 hurkyll's recall
1 commandeer
1 redirect
1 relic of progenitus
1 vendilion clique
I m Missing interaction... 12 Interactive cards aren't enough i guess. Have to get used to titi and snappy
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
Pretty pretty Time Warps. My phone's camera sucks though.
Also not sure how many of you have run into Dredge recently, but Echoing Truth is so good in that matchup.
Commander
U Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive
RG Zilortha, Strength Incarnate
WB Amalia Benavides Aguirre
It is nice to have a non-damage/attacking wincon in Jace Beleren but I don't think it's necessary. However I do think Jace, Vryn's Prodigy is good enough to play at least 2 main, perhaps over some Snapcaster Mage and Thing in the Ice, and he can mill the opponent too.
In other news, I recently won a game vs Lantern Control with Ensnaring Bridge in play by using Mikokoro, Center of the Sea to fill the opponent's hand and let my 6/6 lands through. LOL
Having jace + emrakul and titi / snapcaster both isnt that Good yup.. To me 6 mines effect is a must btw, is the right number to have
I ll test some narrow card from the list someone posted the other day!
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
MODERN – LANTERN (aka Fateseal or Barbershop)
Primer – Subreddit – Facebook – Decklist – Gameplay
Thnkr's Content: Gameplay – Datasheet
Each eye sees a different possibility for tomorrow.
CWUBBCCCCCCCBGBGBGCCCCCCCGGURC
Commander
U Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive
RG Zilortha, Strength Incarnate
WB Amalia Benavides Aguirre
Absolutely not. Av is the only card you get value four turns after you play it
You get to draw if you manage to t1av. And this lets you 3 cards at turn 5 in a format where everyone is trying to race you and win turn 4. Bad
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
You mean that the 4 serum Visions and 4 gigadrowse aren't played for the 1cmc slots? 2 and 3 cmc Also counts as early interaction. B
And some lists do play the cards you listed
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
Commander
U Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive
RG Zilortha, Strength Incarnate
WB Amalia Benavides Aguirre
17 island
1 mikokoro, center of the sea
1 geier reach sanitarium
1 oboro, palace in the clouds
1 minamo, school at water's edge
1 gemstone caverns
1 inkmoth nexus
1 creatures:
1 emrakul, the aeons torn
12 warps:
4 time warp
4 temporal mastery
1 walk the aeons
1 temporal trespass
2 part the waterveil
4 dictate of kruphix
1 howling mine
1 jace beleren
18 tempo and control:
4 serum visions
4 gigadrowse
3 exhaustion
2 remand
2 boomerang
1 unsubstantiate
2 cryptic command
4 chalice of the void
3 hurkyll's recall
1 commandeer
1 redirect
1 relic of progenitus
1 vendilion clique
1 thing in the ice
1 snapcaster mage
2 open slots
so i'm playing this list now. titi, snapcaster and clique all sided it game 2 almost every match.
have two open slots in side and i don't know what should i put in there
also: has anyone tested 4x delver of secrets in the 75? i sometimes play it and it provides a lot of pressure
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
Go ahead and counter/remand my AV, I'll just cast my warp and then win. OR, don't counter my AV and I now have some major card advantage that you don't.