I feel like the ExhaustionGigadrowse package is too important to the deck to bother with Timely Reinforcements. The power to lock out mana affects every deck you will play, not just aggro.
On a side note I am 4x Time Warp away from having the deck in paper.
I LOVE timely reinforcements mainboard. I think the idea is GENIUS. Gives you a small chance vs burn, zoo, etc. All those hard matchups are a lot easier. 2-3 seems about right. 3 exhaustion seems right, with 2 gigadrowse, though it could be 3.
Oh what an idiot, I was looking up cards and since I don't play new formats am not familiar with most and didn't realize. I am an ex-Legacy player so I thought Conspiracy was a newer "set". Well, $hit, I was reading that card going ... wtf, why don't people run this ... got it. Just trying to find a legit answer to Extraction, since it seems people run that everywhere in my meta. My next thought for the board was Noxious Revival which has the added benefit of being an additional Warp. Man, I haven't done that in probably 4-6 years, guess your are due sometime when all you play is Modern and EDH.
Personally running Shadow of Doubt in my sideboard against Surgical Extraction/Slaughter Games. It's also a relevant card against Amulet Bloom and Scapeshift, and of course always good for nailing fetchlands at the very least.
I actually really like Shadow of Doubt, forgot about that card, but the reason I don't like it against Extraction is turn 5 Warp, turn 6 Warp, you won't have enough mana to protect it. It is a SOLID card for the board though.
I guess you can draw the comparison of Exhaustion and Timely Reinforcements but Exhaustion is just SUCH a better card in the combo focused versions. In a UW Control variant they seem about even, and I do think Exhaustion can work in either and with or without Gigadrowse. I just feel its such a good card since due to the stall and 3cc, there doesn't seem to be any reason to not run a 3 mana Warp.
Timely Reinforcements is a nice card, but it doesn't save you IMO. 3 tokens and 6 life is nice, but it doesn't protect you from a trampling boggle, blighted agent, ink moth, etched champion, eg most of the threats aggro decks in the format use. Exhaustion can stall enough to buy you an extra turn. Watching the above match on Twitch if Exhaustion had been played over timely, I think Fabiano would have won that game. I would need to go back and check.
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Modern
No idea because my favorite decks keep getting banned or having the rules changed against them
MOST?!? are you kidding me? Nacatl, Lightning Bolt, Goblin Guide, Goyf, TRAMPLE BOGLES, ETCHED CHAMPION, every creature without evasion, and although it is less effective vs trample, it still worlds. Life gain still affects bogles and champion. And guess what? Affinity doesn´t always have champion.
I guess those are the threats from decks I worry about the most. Reinforcements is great against burn (goblin guide, lightning bolt, etc), never said it wasn't. And yes, it will work fine against chumpable threats, but would argue there are better options. 6 life and 3 chump blockers stall attackers a bit and makes up for 2 bolts, which again is great against burn, but not super effective against many top tier decks. Compared to exhaustion which locks down their mana too. Almost all of the top decks use evasive threats. Tokens are good against Jund, but losing before turn 5 was never a worry there, it is the discard that gets us. Further more it makes us tap out a lot of the time since its main use is before turn 5.
But the real question is it a card you would splash white for? Being a mono blue deck primarily you have an easy mana base and is diluting that mana base worth it? I personally would not splash for reinforcements. Maybe for path, maybe for leylines and maybe for sphinx's rev.
Anyway, I see you have a different view, but shouting with all caps isn't necessary.
It undoes about 1 to 1 and a half turns. I worry most about zoo and burn. That is fantastic against both. If you are already splashing, I´d go for it, like my Bant list. Is it worth splashing? I don´t know. But if you are doing U/w its pretty good. If your big problem is aggro decks, (which it is) splashing white is an option to be considered. It is not that painful to go 2 colors.
I also like leyline of singularity against zoo and affinity. Any deck that runs a lot of 4 of creatures it is really good.
Thoughts on Delay? Having a hard time evaluating it just because the Vorthos side of me loves how thematic it is in a time deck. It is strictly worse than Remand because it doesn't cantrip but I feel like it is a solid second place for a 2 CMC catch all counter.
If it cantripped it would be nuts. But it doesn´t. I think it is a nice replacement for remand on a budget. The big problem is that they dont have to pay for the card again, it just goes into suspend.
If you look at my version, I run 4 mine effects. I do agree that it hurts them, but I dont have multiples of permanents out very often. Also, dropping it on turn four is a lot of fun. Favorite game it was 3 nacatls and a Loxodon Smiter (he had another in hand) beating down. Top deck one. BOOM. It was very nice. My combo list has a poor rate vs the fast decks. Against Jund and Junk it does fine, and slow decks it eats.
i'm playing Takin'Turns since july (a deck won a local event of +100people) and i really like to stay with the classics. so i am playing about 12 gain turn. 1 Exhaustion 3 Temporal Mastery (and i was toying with a couple of Telling Time) 4 Walk the Aeons and 4 Time Warp. Bottom line is : i didn't like Telling Time at all and Thassa was hard to sneak into play when you'r in combo mode. This week i have been testing Part the Waterwell and TBH i see no reason to not play it instead of Temporal Mastery. Its cheaper +75% of the time than Mastery and its a win-con. And since it added additional win-cons, i removed Thassa. Part the Waterwell is really good.
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Kakwann, Lvl 39 Sorcerer
Currently Playing
Standard:GWRU 4C Collected Company Modern:GUWRB Bloom Titan Legacy:BUG SHARDLESS BUG
EDH : GR BORBORYGMOS ENRAGED GU PRIME SPEAKER ZEGENA UWR ZEDRUU THE GREATHEARTED UBR MISHRA ARTIFICER PRODIGY B SHEOLDRED WHISPERING ONE R ASHLING THE PILGRIM
My decklist atm. i changed Temporal Mastery for Part the Waterveil. the bad thing about Part is that it exile itself (not worse than Temporal Mastery if you ask me). the bad side is that you use less Walk the Aeons buyback ability because you try to reach 9 lands to start the clock. Removing Temporal made me remove Telling Time. which was less than optimal in all fast match up. Boomerang is quite handy in those match up, to bounce an attacker or a land early game. its a sort-of remand, sometime its even better. because i removed telling time and thassa i added 2 howling mine. (6 effect, 8 if you count jace and mikokoro) you need about 2 of them into play to go infinite and i was felling like i needed more than i had in my deck vs Jund deck in general. i'm not sure of every slot in the SB. Spell Pierce and the 3rd Boomerang might be overkill, i try to improve my early match up vs aggro deck in general. i'm still not sure of those cards. Redirect is nice vs discard, bolt, command, abrupt decay, its also an ok counterspell decks. the deck is amazing, but if you play it in a tournament ask your opponent to concede(when you have 3 mine effect and its you 8th turn in a row.) and play it really fast... its really boring to play against... a bit like playing against High Tide in Legacy
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Kakwann, Lvl 39 Sorcerer
Currently Playing
Standard:GWRU 4C Collected Company Modern:GUWRB Bloom Titan Legacy:BUG SHARDLESS BUG
EDH : GR BORBORYGMOS ENRAGED GU PRIME SPEAKER ZEGENA UWR ZEDRUU THE GREATHEARTED UBR MISHRA ARTIFICER PRODIGY B SHEOLDRED WHISPERING ONE R ASHLING THE PILGRIM
Match 1 - Jund 1-2 L Game 1 - I am on the play and start with visions. He IoKs me and takes a howling mine. He starts a slow roll with goyf, on turn 3 I miracle a temporal mastery and get ahead. He starts beating down, but I eventually get a dictate out and combo off soon after that and win with snap beat down. Game 2 - He just unloads with bob, double goyf and scooze. I never get a good way to delay him. Game 3 - was very very close. I manage to get a lot of land, but he discards my mine and abrupts my dictate. He gets double bob going with a goyf. I delay as much as I can and start pecking away with Faerie Conclave when I can. I make a misplay and don't counter a terminate on my snapcaster, which was chumping, and go down to 2. He passes at 4 life with 2 bobs up. I swing with faerie conclave and get him to 2 with a gigadrowse in my hand. He proceeds to terminate his second bob. I pass to him. He top decks a lightning bolt and goes to 1. I don't have enough blue mana to tap his 5 red sources and 3 attacks. If I had saved the snap from the terminate, I would have been up 4 more life and might have been able to survive. Good game though.
Match 2 - Green Stompy 1-2 L Game 1 - He is very aggressive and just overwhelms me. I durdle enough to buy a few extra turns, but never manage to get ahead enough. This match-up makes me very sad that I didn't have hibernate in my board. Game 2 - I am on the play and manage to stall enough get ahead. I awaken a part the waterveil, and get him to 1. All his creatures are tapped and he has 3 mana open at this point. I don't get another free turn spell, but play exhaustion with flashfreeze and cryptic command in my hand as back up. He attempts to play choke which I counter. On to game 3. Game 3 - This was just gross. He kills me on his turn 4. Dryad Militant into Kalonian Tusker, swing with the dryad, I am at 18. Rancor on the dryad, I play gigadrowse on both of them, and he plays vines of vastwood on the arbor. I take 4, down to 14. I play a land for my turn. His next turn he swings with tusker and dryad, I flash in a snap to chump the dryad. I think I am safe for a short while, as this will slow him down a lot. He plays 2x Aspect of Hydra to make his dryad a 12/9 trample creature. I proceed to take 14 and die a horrible death. Not much I could do.
Match 3 - Jeskai Twin 2-0 W Game 1 - He had no idea what I was playing with double islands to start. We slowly draw and pass turns. I get a dictate into play and wait, just building a large mana base. I remand a clique, followed by counter it the following turn and bounce his colonade. Eventually I draw a gigadrowse and tap him down. I go off next turn with an Awakened Part the Waterveil. He was un-happy about this loss. Game 2 - I board in the rest of my gigadrowses. I have a 3 turn spells in my opening hand plus gigadrowse and 2 lands and a visions. Game 2 starts slow again, playing around each other. I slow him down a lot with gigadrowse, and draw a second. Cryptic keeps him off his land drops and counters his threats. He start trying to value me out with snaps and bolts. I finally have a critical mass of land and a gigadrowse in my hand, a snap, 2 parts, a walk the aeons, and a gigadrowse in my yard. Start of his turn I tap down all his blue mana, he responds by bolt-snap-bolt and an exarch. His board is now 2x snaps, exarch and 1 mana left open and is at 14. I awaken on my turn and swing. He chumps with a snap. Next turn I get more land, swing with the awakened land, he lets it through, 8. I play walk the aeons. Get another land. I swing with the land again, he takes it, 2. I play part. On my turn snap targeting gigadrowse and tap down the rest of his blockers and land. Swing for the win. He was very very mad at this loss. Lots of people were watching this match too, which made it all the better.
I am pretty happy with how the deck played. 1 solid, commanding win, 1 very close loss, and 1 loss to an aggro deck that drew a nut hand. I am thinking 3 remand and 3 gigadrowse main may be good. Gigadrowse was such a house in almost all games I used it in. I feel like I want something else versus discard decks. Ghostly prison would be a nice touch I think, I would consider a white splash for that.
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No idea because my favorite decks keep getting banned or having the rules changed against them
Ghostly prison is very bad vs. Jund. They'll just abrupt decay it and laugh.
I'd think that jamming the full 8 mines+dictates would be the best route against Jund, and more gigadrowse.
I was thinking prison vs stompy like decks and naya company. But getting past turn 3 might be hard.
Also what do you guys think of Judge's Familiar in this deck? Part of me thinks it would be decent, part of me thinks it would be horrible. Good for decks like storm, control and against discard. At the same time it pecks away at people, which is decent too.
Also, Commandeer. I haven't seen this talked about anywhere, but could be really really interesting. Not sure exactly what I would want it to target, but free spells should always be considered.
*Edit* Commandeer would be really fun for cards like slaughter games, surgical extraction, abrupt decay, etc.
Gigadrowse does anything you would ever want Judge's familiar to do at least as far as I can tell. Except maybe vs. Ad Nauseam who can go off at instant speed, but you're likely going to have to run some kind of dedicated hate for that if you run into it.
I haven't played this deck yet to have good answers, just been mentally thinking about it for my meta infested with Jund. Jund is usually a matter of getting more cards than they can take away and then tapping their dudes.
Fast aggro decks - gigadrowse not getting the job done? Repeal might be OK, or hibernation. You don't want to be playing anything they can just remove or pay mana to beat youd own through. Zoo type decks will usually just burn you out or pay for a swing or two--you've got to be interacting early.
I've been thinking a lot about the sideboard, this is what I'm looking at right now:
2x Chalice of the Void - Randomly hoses Amulet, Living End, Restore Balance, but mostly coming in against aggro to be set on 1. Also great on 0 against Affinity in combination with Hurkyl's Recall.
1x Flashfreeze
2x Redirect
1x Spell Pierce - These four are my package against Jund, helping to deal with Choke, Abrupt Decay, and targeted discard.
If you can cast a spell, you're doing well, If you can't, that's okay, too. It usually takes a few turns before you have enough mana to do anything. Meanwhile, you should figure out whether you need to discard (p.11). Then announce the end of your turn, and let your opponent have a go.
As someone using some 2 color lands as a means to further dodge Choke, I just want to bring Engineered Explosives back into the conversation for sideboard. Very good against a number of fast aggro decks, which are the combo version of this deck's bane, including zoo, merfolk, infect and boggles.
I feel like the Exhaustion Gigadrowse package is too important to the deck to bother with Timely Reinforcements. The power to lock out mana affects every deck you will play, not just aggro.
On a side note I am 4x Time Warp away from having the deck in paper.
I actually really like Shadow of Doubt, forgot about that card, but the reason I don't like it against Extraction is turn 5 Warp, turn 6 Warp, you won't have enough mana to protect it. It is a SOLID card for the board though.
I guess you can draw the comparison of Exhaustion and Timely Reinforcements but Exhaustion is just SUCH a better card in the combo focused versions. In a UW Control variant they seem about even, and I do think Exhaustion can work in either and with or without Gigadrowse. I just feel its such a good card since due to the stall and 3cc, there doesn't seem to be any reason to not run a 3 mana Warp.
But the real question is it a card you would splash white for? Being a mono blue deck primarily you have an easy mana base and is diluting that mana base worth it? I personally would not splash for reinforcements. Maybe for path, maybe for leylines and maybe for sphinx's rev.
Anyway, I see you have a different view, but shouting with all caps isn't necessary.
I also like leyline of singularity against zoo and affinity. Any deck that runs a lot of 4 of creatures it is really good.
Standard: GWRU 4C Collected Company
Modern: GUWRB Bloom Titan
Legacy: BUG SHARDLESS BUG
EDH :
GR BORBORYGMOS ENRAGED
GU PRIME SPEAKER ZEGENA
UWR ZEDRUU THE GREATHEARTED
UBR MISHRA ARTIFICER PRODIGY
B SHEOLDRED WHISPERING ONE
R ASHLING THE PILGRIM
21 Island
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
Control (13)
1 Elixir of Immortality
2 Gigadrowse
2 Spell Snare
2 Boomerang
4 Remand
2 Cryptic Command
4 Serum Visions
2 Howling Mine
4 Dictate of Kruphix
1 Jace Beleren
TURN (12)
1 Exhaustion
4 Time Warp
3 Part the Waterveil
4 Walk the Aeons
4 Hurkyl’s Recall
2 Wipe Away
1 Boomerang
2 Redirect
2 Swan Song
2 Gigadrowse
2 Spell Pierce
My decklist atm. i changed Temporal Mastery for Part the Waterveil. the bad thing about Part is that it exile itself (not worse than Temporal Mastery if you ask me). the bad side is that you use less Walk the Aeons buyback ability because you try to reach 9 lands to start the clock. Removing Temporal made me remove Telling Time. which was less than optimal in all fast match up. Boomerang is quite handy in those match up, to bounce an attacker or a land early game. its a sort-of remand, sometime its even better. because i removed telling time and thassa i added 2 howling mine. (6 effect, 8 if you count jace and mikokoro) you need about 2 of them into play to go infinite and i was felling like i needed more than i had in my deck vs Jund deck in general. i'm not sure of every slot in the SB. Spell Pierce and the 3rd Boomerang might be overkill, i try to improve my early match up vs aggro deck in general. i'm still not sure of those cards. Redirect is nice vs discard, bolt, command, abrupt decay, its also an ok counterspell decks. the deck is amazing, but if you play it in a tournament ask your opponent to concede(when you have 3 mine effect and its you 8th turn in a row.) and play it really fast... its really boring to play against... a bit like playing against High Tide in Legacy
Standard: GWRU 4C Collected Company
Modern: GUWRB Bloom Titan
Legacy: BUG SHARDLESS BUG
EDH :
GR BORBORYGMOS ENRAGED
GU PRIME SPEAKER ZEGENA
UWR ZEDRUU THE GREATHEARTED
UBR MISHRA ARTIFICER PRODIGY
B SHEOLDRED WHISPERING ONE
R ASHLING THE PILGRIM
2 Snapcaster Mage
Spells (35)
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Spell Snare
2 Gigadrowse
4 Serum Visions
1 Howling Mine
2 Telling Time
4 Remand
1 Jace Beleren
4 Dictate of Kruphix
3 Cryptic Command
4 Time Warp
2 Part the Waterveil
3 Walk the Aeons
3 Temporal Mastery
1 Faerie Conclave
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
2 Calciform Pools
18 Island
2 Gigadrowse
1 Shadow of Doubt
2 Flashfreeze
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Spellskite
1 Laboratory Maniac
2 Exhaustion
2 Wipe Away
1 AEtherize
Match 1 - Jund 1-2 L
Game 1 - I am on the play and start with visions. He IoKs me and takes a howling mine. He starts a slow roll with goyf, on turn 3 I miracle a temporal mastery and get ahead. He starts beating down, but I eventually get a dictate out and combo off soon after that and win with snap beat down.
Game 2 - He just unloads with bob, double goyf and scooze. I never get a good way to delay him.
Game 3 - was very very close. I manage to get a lot of land, but he discards my mine and abrupts my dictate. He gets double bob going with a goyf. I delay as much as I can and start pecking away with Faerie Conclave when I can. I make a misplay and don't counter a terminate on my snapcaster, which was chumping, and go down to 2. He passes at 4 life with 2 bobs up. I swing with faerie conclave and get him to 2 with a gigadrowse in my hand. He proceeds to terminate his second bob. I pass to him. He top decks a lightning bolt and goes to 1. I don't have enough blue mana to tap his 5 red sources and 3 attacks. If I had saved the snap from the terminate, I would have been up 4 more life and might have been able to survive. Good game though.
Match 2 - Green Stompy 1-2 L
Game 1 - He is very aggressive and just overwhelms me. I durdle enough to buy a few extra turns, but never manage to get ahead enough. This match-up makes me very sad that I didn't have hibernate in my board.
Game 2 - I am on the play and manage to stall enough get ahead. I awaken a part the waterveil, and get him to 1. All his creatures are tapped and he has 3 mana open at this point. I don't get another free turn spell, but play exhaustion with flashfreeze and cryptic command in my hand as back up. He attempts to play choke which I counter. On to game 3.
Game 3 - This was just gross. He kills me on his turn 4. Dryad Militant into Kalonian Tusker, swing with the dryad, I am at 18. Rancor on the dryad, I play gigadrowse on both of them, and he plays vines of vastwood on the arbor. I take 4, down to 14. I play a land for my turn. His next turn he swings with tusker and dryad, I flash in a snap to chump the dryad. I think I am safe for a short while, as this will slow him down a lot. He plays 2x Aspect of Hydra to make his dryad a 12/9 trample creature. I proceed to take 14 and die a horrible death. Not much I could do.
Match 3 - Jeskai Twin 2-0 W
Game 1 - He had no idea what I was playing with double islands to start. We slowly draw and pass turns. I get a dictate into play and wait, just building a large mana base. I remand a clique, followed by counter it the following turn and bounce his colonade. Eventually I draw a gigadrowse and tap him down. I go off next turn with an Awakened Part the Waterveil. He was un-happy about this loss.
Game 2 - I board in the rest of my gigadrowses. I have a 3 turn spells in my opening hand plus gigadrowse and 2 lands and a visions. Game 2 starts slow again, playing around each other. I slow him down a lot with gigadrowse, and draw a second. Cryptic keeps him off his land drops and counters his threats. He start trying to value me out with snaps and bolts. I finally have a critical mass of land and a gigadrowse in my hand, a snap, 2 parts, a walk the aeons, and a gigadrowse in my yard. Start of his turn I tap down all his blue mana, he responds by bolt-snap-bolt and an exarch. His board is now 2x snaps, exarch and 1 mana left open and is at 14. I awaken on my turn and swing. He chumps with a snap. Next turn I get more land, swing with the awakened land, he lets it through, 8. I play walk the aeons. Get another land. I swing with the land again, he takes it, 2. I play part. On my turn snap targeting gigadrowse and tap down the rest of his blockers and land. Swing for the win. He was very very mad at this loss. Lots of people were watching this match too, which made it all the better.
I am pretty happy with how the deck played. 1 solid, commanding win, 1 very close loss, and 1 loss to an aggro deck that drew a nut hand. I am thinking 3 remand and 3 gigadrowse main may be good. Gigadrowse was such a house in almost all games I used it in. I feel like I want something else versus discard decks. Ghostly prison would be a nice touch I think, I would consider a white splash for that.
I'd think that jamming the full 8 mines+dictates would be the best route against Jund, and more gigadrowse.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
I was thinking prison vs stompy like decks and naya company. But getting past turn 3 might be hard.
Also what do you guys think of Judge's Familiar in this deck? Part of me thinks it would be decent, part of me thinks it would be horrible. Good for decks like storm, control and against discard. At the same time it pecks away at people, which is decent too.
Also, Commandeer. I haven't seen this talked about anywhere, but could be really really interesting. Not sure exactly what I would want it to target, but free spells should always be considered.
*Edit* Commandeer would be really fun for cards like slaughter games, surgical extraction, abrupt decay, etc.
I haven't played this deck yet to have good answers, just been mentally thinking about it for my meta infested with Jund. Jund is usually a matter of getting more cards than they can take away and then tapping their dudes.
Fast aggro decks - gigadrowse not getting the job done? Repeal might be OK, or hibernation. You don't want to be playing anything they can just remove or pay mana to beat youd own through. Zoo type decks will usually just burn you out or pay for a swing or two--you've got to be interacting early.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
2x Chalice of the Void - Randomly hoses Amulet, Living End, Restore Balance, but mostly coming in against aggro to be set on 1. Also great on 0 against Affinity in combination with Hurkyl's Recall.
1x Flashfreeze
2x Redirect
1x Spell Pierce - These four are my package against Jund, helping to deal with Choke, Abrupt Decay, and targeted discard.
1x Gigadrowse
3x Hurkyl's Recall
1x Laboratory Maniac
4x Spreading Seas
Maindeck:
4x Dictate of Kruphix
2x Exhaustion
2x Gigadrowse
2x Halimar Depths
4x Howling Mine
20x Island
2x Polluted Delta
4x Part the Waterveil
4x Remand
4x Serum Visions
2x Spell Snare
1x Temporal Mastery
1x Temporal Trespass
4x Time Warp
2x Walk the Aeons
Commander
U Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive
RG Zilortha, Strength Incarnate
WB Amalia Benavides Aguirre
Commander
U Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive
RG Zilortha, Strength Incarnate
WB Amalia Benavides Aguirre