QQ for BW players, what is the right turn 1 play when your opener has inquisition and Aether Vial? I can see arguments for both but don't have all the cards in the bw deck so have never playtested.
Do you know what your opponent is playing? If so does that deck have a one or two drop (depending if your on the play or draw) that you need to hit? Then play discard then vial. If you don't know what your opponent is on look at your hand. Do you have multiple options turn two that additional information can help you decide what's the right play? Then discard. Is your hand full of threes like Flicker and reliant on the value provided by vial? Than play vial.
Sadly it's not a............ black and white answer.
Edit; As you are probably aware discard can actually increase in value after a few turns against certain decks. As a basic example if you are an aggro deck playing against a control deck you know they need the turn four sweeper to stabilize. So your discard is actually better before their turn four. Knowing the pivotsl turns of an opponents deck increases the value of discard and helps you choose the correct turn to cast it.
QQ for BW players, what is the right turn 1 play when your opener has inquisition and Aether Vial? I can see arguments for both but don't have all the cards in the bw deck so have never playtested.
Do you know what your opponent is playing? If so does that deck have a one or two drop (depending if your on the play or draw) that you need to hit? Then play discard then vial. If you don't know what your opponent is on look at your hand. Do you have multiple options turn two that additional information can help you decide what's the right play? Then discard. Is your hand full of threes like Flicker and reliant on the value provided by vial? Than play vial.
Sadly it's not a............ black and white answer.
Badum chi. Ha-ha thanks. Yeah figured as much, I guess most confusing is what you do game 1 with no information but yes I guess best to see what best synergizes the rest of your hand.
Now that twin is gone do any of our main deck/sideboard slots shift? One example being Spellskite. Does that shift to the side for some of you or is sticking main deck now that one of its primary targets doesn't exist?
As mentioned, I do believe some of our more combat oriented options in Splicer/Finks have gotten a lot more viable (especially splicer vs affinity).
I will say that Wasteland Strangler and Eldrazi Displacer will be awesome against affinity!
So with twin banned i'm going to devote more time playing this deck. D&T is probably the most interactive deck i played, it does something vs everything, no matter how linear your opponent's deck.
I think the w/b version will be glad they have stranglers vs all the aggro decks. I'm even considering playing the full 4 now, but i just need to find more good maindeckable enablers...
yea i picked it up specifically for twin...so now im sitting here wondering if I should ditch it straight away. There's got to be better sideboard cards for burn. Already have burrenton forge-tender, could grab kor firewalker if necessary. Could hold onto it for a bit as well and just see what happens.
Semadin, while I've used champion primarily against splinter twin decks it can be useful against burn decks for the incidental life gain for each creature which adds up fast. I've also used it as a random red hoser and infinite blocker as needed.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Words are pale shadows of forgotten names. As names have power, words have power. Words can light fires in the minds of men. Words can wring tears from the hardest heart."
QQ for BW players, what is the right turn 1 play when your opener has inquisition and Aether Vial? I can see arguments for both but don't have all the cards in the bw deck so have never playtested.
Do you know what your opponent is playing? If so does that deck have a one or two drop (depending if your on the play or draw) that you need to hit? Then play discard then vial. If you don't know what your opponent is on look at your hand. Do you have multiple options turn two that additional information can help you decide what's the right play? Then discard. Is your hand full of threes like Flicker and reliant on the value provided by vial? Than play vial.
Sadly it's not a............ black and white answer.
Badum chi. Ha-ha thanks. Yeah figured as much, I guess most confusing is what you do game 1 with no information but yes I guess best to see what best synergizes the rest of your hand.
Just part of the learning curve of the deck. I would personally error on the side of vial in the dark. You don't want that hit by discard and it feels like the stronger play.
Game 1: I got an early Thalia out which prevented him from swinging with Nettle Sentinels. I had perfect Path to Exiles to kill his Ezuris on time. Won in the air with Restoration Angel, Flickerwisp and Aven Mindcensor.
Game 2: I got quickly run over despite casting Meddling Mage and naming Ezuri. I got hit by Shaman of the Pack multiple times which eventually killed me. I did get a chance to Reflector Mage his Heritage Druids which was pretty entertaining.
Game 3: He had an explosive start. I played another T2 Meddling Mage, naming Ezuri. His T3 he chained together multiple Lead the Stampedes (multiple Heritage Druids) and had 12+ Elves on the board. T4 I windmill slammed my side board Worship and passed. He attacked and brought me to 1. I soon realized Shaman of the Pack causes life to be lost instead of doing damage, so the following turn I cast Flickerwisp targeting Meddling Mage and named Shaman of the Pack. He conceded, as he could not win through Worship and without Shaman.
I think there is some room for improvement, but it was a fun match up. Thank God for Worship...
I soon realized Shaman of the Pack causes life to be lost instead of doing damage, so the following turn I cast Flickerwisp targeting Meddling Mage and named Shaman of the Pack. He conceded, as he could not win through Worship and without Shaman.
I think there is some room for improvement, but it was a fun match up. Thank God for Worship...
The banned/restricted notice has made decisions for this deck really difficult even moreso than what to do with my Twin deck. I was converting that to Kiki Control within twenty minutes of the announcement. Here I really don't know what to tune against...at all.
I'll keep Spellskite main for removal protection, Bogle, and the now inevitable rise of Infect. I still haven't decided if Auriok Champion is worth boarding or not. Was considering maindecking it and maybe adding a couple copies of Bitterblossom to have bodies to throw into the grinder, but I really have no idea at this point.
“Modern has provided us a non-rotating format that is far more accessible than Legacy or Vintage, but still retains many of the qualities that people enjoy in those formats—such as a more stable metagame, the ability to play and tweak the same deck week after week, and simply a much more powerful card pool than Standard.”
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
Personally, I think the shift that will take place is an advantage for us. It widens the gap between aggressive decks and mana ramp decks. Junk/Jund still exist but are easier match ups to handle and often don't just kill in one combat step. On the other hand, I really was unimpressed with how the announcement took place and the dissatisfaction that came with 0 unanswered and etc. I've tested a bit and found some cards to be relevant going forward though and think there is some value for us.
Eldrazi displacer which we all know about already.
Phyrexian revoker which most of us know about. I believe affinity and train will be more ore leant and this guy does great in those matches.
Ayli tested well especially with finks. Death touch and spontaneous life gain are good. And getting to ten + isn't too difficult against tron and friends. Not sure what the final verdict is yet.
Beaters in general with less twin in the format we did less to trying to grind it out. Now it's really important to figure out what finishers are most important.
Cards that are less exciting to me now are spellskite copies 3-4 main and sb dismember and engineered explosives in the sb.
My Jund/junk buddy will be helping me test my current list Monday and I'll post Mastered Kitty-less Mix list then.
Thought-Knot seer has been very good for me. Once you are committed to colorless for Eldrazi Displacer it doesn't really stretch your mana any further. It adds another ETB effect for displacer/flicker to abuse. The soft lock with displacer is great when that line comes up.
Now that twin is gone do any of our main deck/sideboard slots shift? One example being Spellskite. Does that shift to the side for some of you or is sticking main deck now that one of its primary targets doesn't exist?
As mentioned, I do believe some of our more combat oriented options in Splicer/Finks have gotten a lot more viable (especially splicer vs affinity).
I will say that Wasteland Strangler and Eldrazi Displacer will be awesome against affinity!
Spellskite has always been a SB card for me. It still is because of Infect and Boggles. It's generally a fine card in some other matches as well like Burn without being a standout.
After playing prereleases and thinking about it, I'm convinced that kozilek's return is going to replace pyroclasm in GR tron and replace anger of the gods in other sideboards. This is something that will hurt us badly. It shuts down forge tender and fire walkercompletely.
Here are my thoughts on counter measures:
-Dromoka's command stops the first part of kozilek's return but is unable to answer the exile effect.
-Add painter's servant as a catch-all eldrazi answer. This may have merit as I expect eldrazi to replace a significant part of jund in the meta.
-Rootborn defenses for token decks and ghostway for flicker based decks. This can protect your stuff while improving your board state.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Your success in playing dnt/hatebears is determined largely by your ability to read and prepare for the meta that you will be playing in. Furthermore, it has an absolutely brutal learning curve. Expect to lose; a lot.
What strangler is removal that can attack and block. This is good because we're light on removal compared to junk, jund and grixis. Also, strangler is good for the non-combat creatures that we don't want to waste a path on. Another nice thing about strangler is that it's different from the other eldrazi in that it has an enter-the-battlefield (etb) trigger rather than a casting trigger like Ulamog, the ceaseless hunger. This means we can further abuse it with blink effects like eldrazi displacer or restoration angel.
Here's an example of play:
1. Play tidehollow sculler and exile a card from opponent's hand.
2. Play strangler and put that card in grave and kill an opponent's creature.
3. Play restoration angel and blink sculler to repeat it's ability.
We've just used three cards to get three creatures and remove three of the opponenet's cards. This nets us a card advantage of three and puts us on our way to victory.
Another example:
1. Play path to exile on a fatty.
2. Play strangler and return fatty to the grave while killing a weenie.
3. Scavenging ooze eats both gaining you life while growing and reloading strangler for another use when you get a blink or flicker effect.
Here we only have a net card advantage of two but it came with two life and two +1/+1 counters.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Your success in playing dnt/hatebears is determined largely by your ability to read and prepare for the meta that you will be playing in. Furthermore, it has an absolutely brutal learning curve. Expect to lose; a lot.
Do you know what your opponent is playing? If so does that deck have a one or two drop (depending if your on the play or draw) that you need to hit? Then play discard then vial. If you don't know what your opponent is on look at your hand. Do you have multiple options turn two that additional information can help you decide what's the right play? Then discard. Is your hand full of threes like Flicker and reliant on the value provided by vial? Than play vial.
Sadly it's not a............ black and white answer.
Edit; As you are probably aware discard can actually increase in value after a few turns against certain decks. As a basic example if you are an aggro deck playing against a control deck you know they need the turn four sweeper to stabilize. So your discard is actually better before their turn four. Knowing the pivotsl turns of an opponents deck increases the value of discard and helps you choose the correct turn to cast it.
Badum chi. Ha-ha thanks. Yeah figured as much, I guess most confusing is what you do game 1 with no information but yes I guess best to see what best synergizes the rest of your hand.
As mentioned, I do believe some of our more combat oriented options in Splicer/Finks have gotten a lot more viable (especially splicer vs affinity).
I will say that Wasteland Strangler and Eldrazi Displacer will be awesome against affinity!
I think the w/b version will be glad they have stranglers vs all the aggro decks. I'm even considering playing the full 4 now, but i just need to find more good maindeckable enablers...
Just part of the learning curve of the deck. I would personally error on the side of vial in the dark. You don't want that hit by discard and it feels like the stronger play.
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
Creatures
3 Judge's Familiar
2 Aven Mindcensor
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Vryn Wingmare
4 Leonin Arbiter
2 Meddling Mage
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4 Flickerwisp
2 Reflector Mage
4 Restoration Angel
3 Hallowed Fountain
1 Prairie Stream
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Tectonic Edge
6 Plains
1 Island
4 Kitchen Finks
2 Worship
2 Meddling Mage
2 Reflector Mage
2 Detention Sphere
3 Stony Silence
Game 1: I got an early Thalia out which prevented him from swinging with Nettle Sentinels. I had perfect Path to Exiles to kill his Ezuris on time. Won in the air with Restoration Angel, Flickerwisp and Aven Mindcensor.
Game 2: I got quickly run over despite casting Meddling Mage and naming Ezuri. I got hit by Shaman of the Pack multiple times which eventually killed me. I did get a chance to Reflector Mage his Heritage Druids which was pretty entertaining.
Game 3: He had an explosive start. I played another T2 Meddling Mage, naming Ezuri. His T3 he chained together multiple Lead the Stampedes (multiple Heritage Druids) and had 12+ Elves on the board. T4 I windmill slammed my side board Worship and passed. He attacked and brought me to 1. I soon realized Shaman of the Pack causes life to be lost instead of doing damage, so the following turn I cast Flickerwisp targeting Meddling Mage and named Shaman of the Pack. He conceded, as he could not win through Worship and without Shaman.
I think there is some room for improvement, but it was a fun match up. Thank God for Worship...
GU Infect | x Affinity | RWG Naya Burn | W Death and Taxes | U Merfolk | BURG BTL Scapeshift | WUUW Titan | R Goblins | BURGW Suicide Zoo
Worship seems interesting. But your opponent might have conceded too quickly... Did he not play collected company or chord of calling, both of which ignore meddling mage? He could have hit shaman of the pack off of those and kill you.
I'll keep Spellskite main for removal protection, Bogle, and the now inevitable rise of Infect. I still haven't decided if Auriok Champion is worth boarding or not. Was considering maindecking it and maybe adding a couple copies of Bitterblossom to have bodies to throw into the grinder, but I really have no idea at this point.
I guess there's no reason not to play Wheel of Sun and Moon now.
A lot of thinking and reevaluating ahead...
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
How to Use Spoiler Tags
Starting Over: The Origins of the Mulligan Rule
Practical Approach to Slow Play
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 2: SWARM and TOOLBOX
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 3
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 4
These videos are by MTG Salvation Moderator Lantern!
Introduction to Tempo
Controlling Tempo
Elements of Tempo
Roadblocks to Tempo
How Not To Build A Deck - Tempo
Learn How To Sideboard, Dammit!
Mulligan's Island
The Art of the Mulligan
The Art of the Mulligan: Eight Case Studies
Fundamentals: The Mulligan
Some Mulligan Exercises
A Mulligan Is Worth Three Cards
The Mulligan Debate
Common Sense: The Art of the Mulligan
Who's The Beatdown?
3 Caves of Koilos
3 Eldrazi Temple
2 Fetid Heath
3 Godless Shrine
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Plains
3 Shambling Vent
2 Tectonic Edge
Artifacts (4):
4 Æther Vial
4 Path to Exile
Creatures (29):
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
4 Serra Avenger
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Wasteland Strangler
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Dismember
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Rest in Peace
3 Stony Silence
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Flooded Strand
6 Island
3 Polluted Delta
3 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
Creatures (16):
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stormchaser Mage
2 Gut Shot
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mutagenic Growth
3 Spell Pierce
3 Twisted Image
3 Vapor Snag
Sorceries (8):
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Blood Moon
2 Dispel
1 Forked Bolt
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Repeal
2 Roast
1 Spell Snare
2 Spellskite
1 Vapor Snag
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Copperline Gorge
5 Mountain
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
4 Wooded Foothills
Creatures (14):
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Atarka's Command
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
3 Searing Blaze
Sorceries (8):
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
2 Deflecting Palm
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Path to Exile
2 Rending Volley
3 Skullcrack
19 Forest
3 Treetop Village
Creatures (24):
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Dryad Militant
2 Dungrove Elder
4 Experiment One
4 Leatherback Baloth
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Rancor
Instants (10):
3 Aspect of Hydra
4 Vines of Vastwood
3 Dismember
2 Choke
2 Gut Shot
2 Deglamer
2 Feed the Clan
2 Oxidize
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Skylasher
1 Unravel the Æther
Eldrazi displacer which we all know about already.
Phyrexian revoker which most of us know about. I believe affinity and train will be more ore leant and this guy does great in those matches.
Ayli tested well especially with finks. Death touch and spontaneous life gain are good. And getting to ten + isn't too difficult against tron and friends. Not sure what the final verdict is yet.
Beaters in general with less twin in the format we did less to trying to grind it out. Now it's really important to figure out what finishers are most important.
Cards that are less exciting to me now are spellskite copies 3-4 main and sb dismember and engineered explosives in the sb.
My Jund/junk buddy will be helping me test my current list Monday and I'll post Mastered Kitty-less Mix list then.
WWModern Death And Taxes (w/ Militia Bugler) (JUL '19)
GWModern Maverick (JUL '19)
WBCatmix on Twitch!
WWCatmix on Youtube
Spellskite has always been a SB card for me. It still is because of Infect and Boggles. It's generally a fine card in some other matches as well like Burn without being a standout.
Kataki is often removed, and Stony may stops eggs from tron and random Restore Balance decks.
Path to Exile, Tidehollow Scull er and RiP in some SB
Here are my thoughts on counter measures:
-Dromoka's command stops the first part of kozilek's return but is unable to answer the exile effect.
-Add painter's servant as a catch-all eldrazi answer. This may have merit as I expect eldrazi to replace a significant part of jund in the meta.
-Rootborn defenses for token decks and ghostway for flicker based decks. This can protect your stuff while improving your board state.
What strangler is removal that can attack and block. This is good because we're light on removal compared to junk, jund and grixis. Also, strangler is good for the non-combat creatures that we don't want to waste a path on. Another nice thing about strangler is that it's different from the other eldrazi in that it has an enter-the-battlefield (etb) trigger rather than a casting trigger like Ulamog, the ceaseless hunger. This means we can further abuse it with blink effects like eldrazi displacer or restoration angel.
Here's an example of play:
1. Play tidehollow sculler and exile a card from opponent's hand.
2. Play strangler and put that card in grave and kill an opponent's creature.
3. Play restoration angel and blink sculler to repeat it's ability.
We've just used three cards to get three creatures and remove three of the opponenet's cards. This nets us a card advantage of three and puts us on our way to victory.
Another example:
1. Play path to exile on a fatty.
2. Play strangler and return fatty to the grave while killing a weenie.
3. Scavenging ooze eats both gaining you life while growing and reloading strangler for another use when you get a blink or flicker effect.
Here we only have a net card advantage of two but it came with two life and two +1/+1 counters.
Other than the aforementioned tidehollow sculler and path to exile, dryad militant is a maindeckable way to get you more exile effects.
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance