I think a monowhite build should run 4x GQ and 4x TecEdge at a minimum. 13 white sources is all we need (according to the much quoted article) - giving us room for 10 nonwhite sources. And I'm of the opinion that a manabase should be made as BAD as possible, not as good as possible. So for me, 8 land destruction, 2 mutavault. (Next week ill replace mutavault with the Ruins). On top of that, I think the white sources should be 8 plains 4 Horizon Canopy 1 Eiganjo Castle. Same basic principle. Yes a painless manabase is an advantage, but it is an advantage we can leverage. I'd prefer to have a mostly painless manabase with carddraw, than a completely painless manabase without. On average we'd still deal less damage to ourselves than a jund/grixis/etc deck, which i still consider an advantage.
Regarding the black splash, i've seen mono-white lists run dryad militant. I'd think it would be pretty good along wasteland strangler since as long as one instant/sorcery hits the graveyard, she grants us unlimited processing. Worth it?
It's a great interaction, no question, but I'm not sure if it's good enough. Possibly sideboard, but then it competes with Rest in Peace, which is mostly better overall.
Thought some more about Wheel of Sun and Moon. I'm okay with it in all of the places where we'd use Rest in Peace, except against Twin, where it is profoundly worse. It powers up Desolate Lighthouse and makes the threat of combo inevitable.
I've been thinking lately that 1 for 1 I really like Serra Avenger more than Blade Splicer. I think I'd prefer to have a playset of Serra Avengers than a playset of Splicers.
Just to do some quick analysis - the role of both is essentially against creatures on defence with a bit of damage output if you're in control of the board. If you're not in control of the board because they have large creatures down, then Splicer is doing nothing offensively. Avenger has evasion and doesn't need to pick between swinging and blocking. Golem can't swing through a big Goyf or Tasigur. If you get a Golem engine going you can afford to lose a few, but that engine has a lot of inherent vulnerabilities due to the fact the golems are both artifacts and tokens. Kolaghan's Command and Maelstrom Pulse are common two non-sweeper answers for more than one Golem. Overall, I just don't think the Golem is big enough to really be a huge threat on offence and is only really a standout on defence when you have multiples but even then a bolt to one can ruin that plan. Avenger on the other hand has a reliable mix of blocking ability with the added bonus if vigilance and being able to trade with common fliers like Clique. On offensive it's a decent clock and it costs half the mana. While you can't drop it early, you can vial it earlier or drop multiples t4. It's also out of Pyroclasm range unlike the Splicer himself who you want to bounce to make the Golems.
I see the deck as needing a 3-card attack force that can do some defending and a 3-card defense force that can do some attacking. This usually means a set of flyers and a set of ground creatures. Up until recently, I've liked Serra Avenger as the former and Mirran Crusader as the latter, but my Crusaders are eating too many Bolts and Pyroclasms these days, so I'm looking for a possible replacement. With Eldrazi Displacer only days away, Blade Splicer and Kitchen Finks are both looking pretty good.
“Modern has provided us a non-rotating format that is far more accessible than Legacy or Vintage, but still retains many of the qualities that people enjoy in those formats—such as a more stable metagame, the ability to play and tweak the same deck week after week, and simply a much more powerful card pool than Standard.”
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
I've been testing displacer with 4 ghost quarter 3 tectonic edge and 2 mutavault as colorless sources and have had no issues in mono white...luckily I have a buddy that can sleeve up every tier 1 deck. I like avenger but not in the blade splicer spot in mono white. Without vial it comes out earlier, flicker friendly Even after golem is bolted. Only time avenger is better imo is against k command. Also the golem having first strike and being colorless is very relevant in matches,less you lose the race to a etched champion. And having both splicer to gum up the ground and avenger to win in the air all the better. The new eldrazi deck could be worrisome if it becomes popular but there ate answers, painters servant, full set of tec edges, tidehollow sculler, search hate helps to keep them off threats and expedition map, leyline in side can keep off discard, as mentioned painter's servant could mess with their mana,etc...our deck is great at adapting to shifting meta. I'm preparing for the regionals down here in a couple weeks,hopefully my competitive meta stays twin heavy since I have yet to lose to twin in competitive play. I will start with 2x displacer and go from there, and we will see if sfm is unbanned either way I am ready.
How many colorless sources is enough to run cards like Eldrazi Displacer and/or Matter Reshaper? Is 4x Ghost Quarter and 2-3x Tec Edge enough?
It depends on your definition of "enough". How likely would you like it to be that by T4, you have found at least one colorless source? And are you taking it into consideration that those 6-7 sources are likely to be sacrificed?
It doesn't sound like enough to me. I'd be much more comfortable with HugeElfBoy's 9 sources than your 6-7.
How's the win % and which are our key cards vs them?
What sideboard options do we have? (i play monoW but suggestions for different archetypes are fine too)
I played three games against it with monowhite and went 3-0. I hear its a good matchup too, so its not just me. The matchup should be highly in our favor. Key are cards are Ghost Quarter ad Tec Edge, as it keeps them from ramping and "going wide" with all your creatures is something they have a hard time handling.
No. Just no. Either you're very lucky, or your opponent isn't a good Eldrazi pilot.
Bx Eldrazi is basically everything we hate in a deck: they run discard, are relatively light on noncreature spells, and are extremely heavy on efficient creatures. It's basically a much, much worse Tron matchup, where the deck doesn't search, and doesn't durdle on turns 3, 4, and 5.
The only part of your statement that I agree with, is the assessment that Ghost Quarter and Tectonic Edge are important, as they hit the enablinglands. But TE won't be active until they drop their 4th land, and by that time, they can probably cast every non-Ulamog card in their deck.
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
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Just took the deck from this article to Thursday night modern and went 3-1. I played and beat RG Tron, Naya Zoo/Burn (Nacatl Burn?), and Naya Burn. Lost against UR Delver (I really don't have enough experience in this match-up. I was not ready for that deck.)
"Flickerwisp the opponent's land, vial in Strangler, send their land to the graveyard and kill a dude" happened several times tonight. Sometimes I put the -3/-3 on the Strangler itself when they didn't have creatures, just to Stone Rain them.
So i decided to pick up this deck tonight and went 2-1 beating storm, ad nauseam and lossing to affinity.
This is the list i want to play once oath becomes legal:
I maxed out on caves of koilos because with eldrazi displacer it is essentially a tri-land. I feel like tec edge and GQ aren't enough since we often want to sac them.
Is stony silence correct in the sideboard, despite turning off vial? Am i supposed to cut the vial when i side in stony? The issue hasn't come up but just wondering...
So i decided to pick up this deck tonight and went 2-1 beating storm, ad nauseam and lossing to affinity.
This is the list i want to play once oath becomes legal:
I maxed out on caves of koilos because with eldrazi displacer it is essentially a tri-land. I feel like tec edge and GQ aren't enough since we often want to sac them.
Is stony silence correct in the sideboard, despite turning off vial? Am i supposed to cut the vial when i side in stony? The issue hasn't come up but just wondering...
Loving the look of your list! I'd replace one Caves of Koilos with an Isolated Chapel, and one with a Fetid Heath. I think that'd be enough colorless sources for Displacer.
As for Stony Silence with Aether Vial, I tried using both at the same time tonight and it screwed me over. I only have tonight's experience to speak from, but I'd say it's worth siding out when we bring in Stony Silence.
So i decided to pick up this deck tonight and went 2-1 beating storm, ad nauseam and lossing to affinity.
This is the list i want to play once oath becomes legal:
I maxed out on caves of koilos because with eldrazi displacer it is essentially a tri-land. I feel like tec edge and GQ aren't enough since we often want to sac them.
Is stony silence correct in the sideboard, despite turning off vial? Am i supposed to cut the vial when i side in stony? The issue hasn't come up but just wondering...
I pay double kataki and a single Stony, some people chit the vial, which if you run multiple is probably a good idea, most times is more it hurts them more than you.
Just took the deck from this article to Thursday night modern and went 3-1. I played and beat RG Tron, Naya Zoo/Burn (Nacatl Burn?), and Naya Burn. Lost against UR Delver (I really don't have enough experience in this match-up. I was not ready for that deck.)
"Flickerwisp the opponent's land, vial in Strangler, send their land to the graveyard and kill a dude" happened several times tonight. Sometimes I put the -3/-3 on the Strangler itself when they didn't have creatures, just to Stone Rain them.
This list does feel extremely streamlined and exactly how I'd want to play the deck. You say that Tidehollow Sculler is an underperformer but it is personally one of my favorite cards, and the only tweak I actually made to the deck was -1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and +1 Tidehollow Sculler, just because Thalia does not play as nicely with the discard suite. Plus, if we're running 3 Wasteland Strangler, I think maximizing the curve potential against creature decks (Sculler into Strangler) is a smart move. Regardless, the deck feels on point. The lack of 4-drops is actually really nice, and the curve of 3-drops is also really solid. A vial sitting at 3 could be several different things and we don't have to worry about hitting a 4th land or ticking our vial up to 4.
With that said, I just picked up the deck and played vs. Tron and UR Twin (2-1 and 2-0 respectively). To no surprise, Leonin Arbiter + Ghost Quarter/Tectonic Edge + Tidehollow Sculler/Inquisition of Kozilek/Thoughtseize were critical vs. Tron and if you don't get any of that, we're basically a bad aggro deck against them (hence the Game 1 loss vs. Tron). The most critical cards in the Twin matchup have got to be Aether Vial by far with cards like Path to Exile and Flickerwisp doing extra work in the matchup. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben is also rather nuts against Twin if it resolves/vials in and lives for a turn or two.
Some notes and highlights:
The lack of Aven Mindcensor is honestly hardly felt. It is more felt in the flash-beater department than the search hate. Also, Flickerwisp targeting Keranos, God of Storms post-resolution into Wasteland Strangler targeting Pestermite is one of the dirtiest plays in magic. The whole Flickerwisp + Wasteland Strangler combo never ceases to surprise me about how versatile it is. To destroy any permanent, all you need is another creature in play, preferably not yours. It does so much work and those two cards alone is the reason I love this deck. Also, Dark Confidant works overtime in low-curve lists like these.
Overall, two thumbs up for the list above. Will definitely do more testing. Eldrazi Displacer seems to be even more potent in a list like this with Kitchen Finks to reset during the grindy matchups.
As for the UR Delver matchup, I have not played against it with this deck, but with my experience against UR Twin, it seems like Vial'ing in creatures is the best route while maximizing our Path to Exiles, ensuring they resolve, so that we can safely Wasteland Strangler their threats with Vial or once their counter defenses are down. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben should also help somewhat, and worst case scenario Flickerwisp resets or trades with a flipped Delver of Secrets. If they start going off with Young Pyromancer or going heavy beat-down with multiple Delvers/Monastery Swiftspears, we just have to gum up the ground. I can definitely see hands in this deck that are horribly suited against a proper tempo-start from Delver. I do think we can manage their control starts, though.
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Regarding the black splash, i've seen mono-white lists run dryad militant. I'd think it would be pretty good along wasteland strangler since as long as one instant/sorcery hits the graveyard, she grants us unlimited processing. Worth it?
It's a great interaction, no question, but I'm not sure if it's good enough. Possibly sideboard, but then it competes with Rest in Peace, which is mostly better overall.
Thought some more about Wheel of Sun and Moon. I'm okay with it in all of the places where we'd use Rest in Peace, except against Twin, where it is profoundly worse. It powers up Desolate Lighthouse and makes the threat of combo inevitable.
I've been thinking lately that 1 for 1 I really like Serra Avenger more than Blade Splicer. I think I'd prefer to have a playset of Serra Avengers than a playset of Splicers.
Just to do some quick analysis - the role of both is essentially against creatures on defence with a bit of damage output if you're in control of the board. If you're not in control of the board because they have large creatures down, then Splicer is doing nothing offensively. Avenger has evasion and doesn't need to pick between swinging and blocking. Golem can't swing through a big Goyf or Tasigur. If you get a Golem engine going you can afford to lose a few, but that engine has a lot of inherent vulnerabilities due to the fact the golems are both artifacts and tokens. Kolaghan's Command and Maelstrom Pulse are common two non-sweeper answers for more than one Golem. Overall, I just don't think the Golem is big enough to really be a huge threat on offence and is only really a standout on defence when you have multiples but even then a bolt to one can ruin that plan. Avenger on the other hand has a reliable mix of blocking ability with the added bonus if vigilance and being able to trade with common fliers like Clique. On offensive it's a decent clock and it costs half the mana. While you can't drop it early, you can vial it earlier or drop multiples t4. It's also out of Pyroclasm range unlike the Splicer himself who you want to bounce to make the Golems.
I see the deck as needing a 3-card attack force that can do some defending and a 3-card defense force that can do some attacking. This usually means a set of flyers and a set of ground creatures. Up until recently, I've liked Serra Avenger as the former and Mirran Crusader as the latter, but my Crusaders are eating too many Bolts and Pyroclasms these days, so I'm looking for a possible replacement. With Eldrazi Displacer only days away, Blade Splicer and Kitchen Finks are both looking pretty good.
I can see a couple of Finks being in the same decklist. My thought is run your 8-12 2 drop hatebears, run a couple of Finks, run a couple of Resto Angels and take a set of Serra Avengers for beatdown and to put more Death in the Death and Taxes. That would still leave room for 4 more 3 drops (Flickerwisp). The thing I'm thinking of moving out of completely, or just running a two of is the 1 drops. They're good in opening hands alongside a vial, but not great topdecks. They're also a nice alternative to vial if you're looking to guarantee you play something t1 but that doesn't require you to run many of them.
Few thoughts:
I've played against the Bw eldrazi deck three matches now and I've won each time. But each match I've come away feeling like I got lucky. The only card I've brought in is Stony Silence, if anyone isn't bringing that card in I suggest you start. The matchup is not in our favor but it's not awful. Dryad militant can be a detriment by exile our own paths.
Just because Stony Silence comes in does not mean you must cut vial. The matches where Silence comes in are ones where if it lands you are very close to winning already. The only times I side out a vial is in extreme attrition matches where drawing two basically loses you the game. Eg, Jund, grixis. Kommand is very good vs vial.
Painter's Servant is such sweet tech against the eldrazi deck. I wish it was more applicable.
I've been running 23 land with 10 colourless lands in mono white and it's been good over the last 25 matches. No regrets so far. Currently my hardest matchups are affinity and bogles despite having hate cards for them. Not sure if I should be devoting more hate towards them since my record vs the field is very good. If you had to name your two hardest matchups, what would they be?
So i decided to pick up this deck tonight and went 2-1 beating storm, ad nauseam and lossing to affinity.
This is the list i want to play once oath becomes legal:
I maxed out on caves of koilos because with eldrazi displacer it is essentially a tri-land. I feel like tec edge and GQ aren't enough since we often want to sac them.
Is stony silence correct in the sideboard, despite turning off vial? Am i supposed to cut the vial when i side in stony? The issue hasn't come up but just wondering...
So i decided to pick up this deck tonight and went 2-1 beating storm, ad nauseam and lossing to affinity.
This is the list i want to play once oath becomes legal:
I maxed out on caves of koilos because with eldrazi displacer it is essentially a tri-land. I feel like tec edge and GQ aren't enough since we often want to sac them.
Is stony silence correct in the sideboard, despite turning off vial? Am i supposed to cut the vial when i side in stony? The issue hasn't come up but just wondering...
Loving the look of your list! I'd replace one Caves of Koilos with an Isolated Chapel, and one with a Fetid Heath. I think that'd be enough colorless sources for Displacer.
As for Stony Silence with Aether Vial, I tried using both at the same time tonight and it screwed me over. I only have tonight's experience to speak from, but I'd say it's worth siding out when we bring in Stony Silence.
If you are playing vs. affinity take the vials out and side stony silence in. Its like the jund match up where vial is something you want to see on turn 1 and then never again.
A thing that all of you should be aware of could be some new tech.
Heartless Eldrazi could also pack Night of Souls' Betrayal, which just destroy our deck: No Thalia, no Wisp, no Wingmare, no Splicer, no Brimaz-Tokens, ...
Most people who bought it, thought of it as a tech against Eldrazi to kill the Scion Tokens from Blight Herder, but Heartless Eldrazi could use it themselves I think and anyway, who have it in SB will side it against us. So perhaps be aware of that. With WB Tokens making a good appearence last SCG event, there are more decks, that the Betrayal would be good against, so I'd expect to see it soon.
Conclusion: Disenchant as 1-2 Off in SB could be necessary or Sundering Growth when playing with Splicers.
I was playing against this deck on Tuesday (I was playing Twin) and this came out, shutting me down. You're going to want Disenchant in your board.
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“Modern has provided us a non-rotating format that is far more accessible than Legacy or Vintage, but still retains many of the qualities that people enjoy in those formats—such as a more stable metagame, the ability to play and tweak the same deck week after week, and simply a much more powerful card pool than Standard.”
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
Experimental list I'm thinking of testing. Going down a land, and up on the Confidants/Stranglers. Traded out Kytheon for Skite (lots of infect/twin in my meta), and testing some Eldrazi Displacers in place of Resto Angel. What I really like about this iteration is that it cuts out the plethora of 2x's I had and makes the list more consistent.
I'm not sure how often SGW will be on/useful, it might be better as a tec edge but testing will show. Furthermore Shizo/Eiganjo will be less effective without as many legendary creatures, but pushing/saving Thalia is still useful.
Sideboard is never final, and I have yet to play against B<> Eldrazi yet, which I'm not excited about.
I've been testing displacer with 4 ghost quarter 3 tectonic edge and 2 mutavault as colorless sources and have had no issues in mono white...luckily I have a buddy that can sleeve up every tier 1 deck. I like avenger but not in the blade splicer spot in mono white. Without vial it comes out earlier, flicker friendly Even after golem is bolted. Only time avenger is better imo is against k command. Also the golem having first strike and being colorless is very relevant in matches,less you lose the race to a etched champion. And having both splicer to gum up the ground and avenger to win in the air all the better. The new eldrazi deck could be worrisome if it becomes popular but there ate answers, painters servant, full set of tec edges, tidehollow sculler, search hate helps to keep them off threats and expedition map, leyline in side can keep off discard, as mentioned painter's servant could mess with their mana,etc...our deck is great at adapting to shifting meta. I'm preparing for the regionals down here in a couple weeks,hopefully my competitive meta stays twin heavy since I have yet to lose to twin in competitive play. I will start with 2x displacer and go from there, and we will see if sfm is unbanned either way I am ready.
Can we see a list?
Also interested in other peoples' lists featuring Displacer. Is anyone trying Mangara alongside it in mono-white?
I was thinking something line this tip start or with.
Something like this will be starting point. Plenty of flicker targets, curved heavy to 3, akroma seems better with extra flicker, finks souls also be good. Skite protects weak creatures like mangara and morph akroma, maybe make room for a second. At same time I can test the one of wreckage. And see how it goes.
Hello everyone. I've long been a legacy D&T player and recently picked up GW hatebears. The new set has me excited for the possibility of BW in modern and I've been trying it out. Here is my current list.
So far the deck has been a blast. I've lived the dream a few times with wasteland strangler + flickerwisp. Eldrazi Displacer has proven to be a strong mid-game card that makes all the dorky creatures feel very powerful. My main question is ideas to sure up the eldrazi matchup. It's pretty much the only deck I seem to face testing on cockatrice, I imagine the numbers of that deck won't be as high in real life at a tourney. The matchup feels really bad. I've gotten there with the best draws but most times I'm in chump block mode on turn 5. I was thinking worship might be effective as ulamog is really the only answer they have. I've also tried GQ + surgical and boarding in Stony Silence (as was suggested above). Any other ideas on some hate for this matchup?
Can't wait for ban and restricted announcement! One thing I love about d&t is you are constantly changing and tweeking, but the last two weeks I've just been in flux because SFM and displacer. But one change I made which I have not tried in a while is 3 judges familiars. Went 5-0 in MTGO league.... Didn't draw the little bird once in 5 rounds!!! Lol!
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Thought some more about Wheel of Sun and Moon. I'm okay with it in all of the places where we'd use Rest in Peace, except against Twin, where it is profoundly worse. It powers up Desolate Lighthouse and makes the threat of combo inevitable.
Edit: I see the deck as needing a 3-card attack force that can do some defending and a 3-card defense force that can do some attacking. This usually means a set of flyers and a set of ground creatures. Up until recently, I've liked Serra Avenger as the former and Mirran Crusader as the latter, but my Crusaders are eating too many Bolts and Pyroclasms these days, so I'm looking for a possible replacement. With Eldrazi Displacer only days away, Blade Splicer and Kitchen Finks are both looking pretty good.
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
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3 Caves of Koilos
3 Eldrazi Temple
2 Fetid Heath
3 Godless Shrine
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Plains
3 Shambling Vent
2 Tectonic Edge
Artifacts (4):
4 Æther Vial
4 Path to Exile
Creatures (29):
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
4 Serra Avenger
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Wasteland Strangler
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Dismember
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Rest in Peace
3 Stony Silence
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Flooded Strand
6 Island
3 Polluted Delta
3 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
Creatures (16):
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stormchaser Mage
2 Gut Shot
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mutagenic Growth
3 Spell Pierce
3 Twisted Image
3 Vapor Snag
Sorceries (8):
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Blood Moon
2 Dispel
1 Forked Bolt
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Repeal
2 Roast
1 Spell Snare
2 Spellskite
1 Vapor Snag
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Copperline Gorge
5 Mountain
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
4 Wooded Foothills
Creatures (14):
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Atarka's Command
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
3 Searing Blaze
Sorceries (8):
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
2 Deflecting Palm
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Path to Exile
2 Rending Volley
3 Skullcrack
19 Forest
3 Treetop Village
Creatures (24):
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Dryad Militant
2 Dungrove Elder
4 Experiment One
4 Leatherback Baloth
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Rancor
Instants (10):
3 Aspect of Hydra
4 Vines of Vastwood
3 Dismember
2 Choke
2 Gut Shot
2 Deglamer
2 Feed the Clan
2 Oxidize
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Skylasher
1 Unravel the Æther
WDeath and TaxesW
RWGBurnGWR
It doesn't sound like enough to me. I'd be much more comfortable with HugeElfBoy's 9 sources than your 6-7.
No. Just no. Either you're very lucky, or your opponent isn't a good Eldrazi pilot.
Bx Eldrazi is basically everything we hate in a deck: they run discard, are relatively light on noncreature spells, and are extremely heavy on efficient creatures. It's basically a much, much worse Tron matchup, where the deck doesn't search, and doesn't durdle on turns 3, 4, and 5.
The only part of your statement that I agree with, is the assessment that Ghost Quarter and Tectonic Edge are important, as they hit the enabling lands. But TE won't be active until they drop their 4th land, and by that time, they can probably cast every non-Ulamog card in their deck.
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The biggest take-away I have from the deck is that Tidehollow Sculler is an underperformer, but Wasteland Strangler is an MVP.
"Flickerwisp the opponent's land, vial in Strangler, send their land to the graveyard and kill a dude" happened several times tonight. Sometimes I put the -3/-3 on the Strangler itself when they didn't have creatures, just to Stone Rain them.
This is the list i want to play once oath becomes legal:
4 Æther Vial
instants : 4
4 path to exile
sorceries : 4
4 inquisition of kozilek
creatures : 26
4 leonin arbiter
4 tidehollow sculler
3 thalia, guardian of thraben
4 flickerwisp
3 wasteland strangler
3 blade splicer
2 eldrazi displacer
1 aven mindcensor
lands : 22
2 swamp
4 plains
4 caves of koilos
4 godless shrine
2 isolated chapel
4 ghost quarter
2 tectonic edge
2 orzhov pontiff
2 sin collector
2 burrenton forge tender
2 rest in peace
2 celestial purge
2 stony silence
3 disenchant
I maxed out on caves of koilos because with eldrazi displacer it is essentially a tri-land. I feel like tec edge and GQ aren't enough since we often want to sac them.
Is stony silence correct in the sideboard, despite turning off vial? Am i supposed to cut the vial when i side in stony? The issue hasn't come up but just wondering...
Loving the look of your list! I'd replace one Caves of Koilos with an Isolated Chapel, and one with a Fetid Heath. I think that'd be enough colorless sources for Displacer.
As for Stony Silence with Aether Vial, I tried using both at the same time tonight and it screwed me over. I only have tonight's experience to speak from, but I'd say it's worth siding out when we bring in Stony Silence.
WDeath and TaxesW
RWGBurnGWR
This list does feel extremely streamlined and exactly how I'd want to play the deck. You say that Tidehollow Sculler is an underperformer but it is personally one of my favorite cards, and the only tweak I actually made to the deck was -1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and +1 Tidehollow Sculler, just because Thalia does not play as nicely with the discard suite. Plus, if we're running 3 Wasteland Strangler, I think maximizing the curve potential against creature decks (Sculler into Strangler) is a smart move. Regardless, the deck feels on point. The lack of 4-drops is actually really nice, and the curve of 3-drops is also really solid. A vial sitting at 3 could be several different things and we don't have to worry about hitting a 4th land or ticking our vial up to 4.
With that said, I just picked up the deck and played vs. Tron and UR Twin (2-1 and 2-0 respectively). To no surprise, Leonin Arbiter + Ghost Quarter/Tectonic Edge + Tidehollow Sculler/Inquisition of Kozilek/Thoughtseize were critical vs. Tron and if you don't get any of that, we're basically a bad aggro deck against them (hence the Game 1 loss vs. Tron). The most critical cards in the Twin matchup have got to be Aether Vial by far with cards like Path to Exile and Flickerwisp doing extra work in the matchup. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben is also rather nuts against Twin if it resolves/vials in and lives for a turn or two.
Some notes and highlights:
The lack of Aven Mindcensor is honestly hardly felt. It is more felt in the flash-beater department than the search hate. Also, Flickerwisp targeting Keranos, God of Storms post-resolution into Wasteland Strangler targeting Pestermite is one of the dirtiest plays in magic. The whole Flickerwisp + Wasteland Strangler combo never ceases to surprise me about how versatile it is. To destroy any permanent, all you need is another creature in play, preferably not yours. It does so much work and those two cards alone is the reason I love this deck. Also, Dark Confidant works overtime in low-curve lists like these.
Do I miss Orzhov Pontiff, Brimaz, King of Oreskos, Aven Mindcensor, or Restoration Angel in this list? Yeah, a bit. Mostly the Orzhov Pontiff was nice against aggressive decks or pump our board, and Brimaz, King of Oreskos plays defense so nicely (as does Restoration Angel). Regardless, I think the above list is definitely a starting point to work forwards from for me. Serra Avenger was one of the most annoying cards in my previous builds, and playing a build without it surely didn't feel bad at all.
Overall, two thumbs up for the list above. Will definitely do more testing. Eldrazi Displacer seems to be even more potent in a list like this with Kitchen Finks to reset during the grindy matchups.
As for the UR Delver matchup, I have not played against it with this deck, but with my experience against UR Twin, it seems like Vial'ing in creatures is the best route while maximizing our Path to Exiles, ensuring they resolve, so that we can safely Wasteland Strangler their threats with Vial or once their counter defenses are down. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben should also help somewhat, and worst case scenario Flickerwisp resets or trades with a flipped Delver of Secrets. If they start going off with Young Pyromancer or going heavy beat-down with multiple Delvers/Monastery Swiftspears, we just have to gum up the ground. I can definitely see hands in this deck that are horribly suited against a proper tempo-start from Delver. I do think we can manage their control starts, though.
I can see a couple of Finks being in the same decklist. My thought is run your 8-12 2 drop hatebears, run a couple of Finks, run a couple of Resto Angels and take a set of Serra Avengers for beatdown and to put more Death in the Death and Taxes. That would still leave room for 4 more 3 drops (Flickerwisp). The thing I'm thinking of moving out of completely, or just running a two of is the 1 drops. They're good in opening hands alongside a vial, but not great topdecks. They're also a nice alternative to vial if you're looking to guarantee you play something t1 but that doesn't require you to run many of them.
I've played against the Bw eldrazi deck three matches now and I've won each time. But each match I've come away feeling like I got lucky. The only card I've brought in is Stony Silence, if anyone isn't bringing that card in I suggest you start. The matchup is not in our favor but it's not awful. Dryad militant can be a detriment by exile our own paths.
Just because Stony Silence comes in does not mean you must cut vial. The matches where Silence comes in are ones where if it lands you are very close to winning already. The only times I side out a vial is in extreme attrition matches where drawing two basically loses you the game. Eg, Jund, grixis. Kommand is very good vs vial.
Painter's Servant is such sweet tech against the eldrazi deck. I wish it was more applicable.
I've been running 23 land with 10 colourless lands in mono white and it's been good over the last 25 matches. No regrets so far. Currently my hardest matchups are affinity and bogles despite having hate cards for them. Not sure if I should be devoting more hate towards them since my record vs the field is very good. If you had to name your two hardest matchups, what would they be?
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
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Who's The Beatdown?
3 Caves of Koilos
3 Eldrazi Temple
2 Fetid Heath
3 Godless Shrine
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Plains
3 Shambling Vent
2 Tectonic Edge
Artifacts (4):
4 Æther Vial
4 Path to Exile
Creatures (29):
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
4 Serra Avenger
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Wasteland Strangler
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Dismember
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Rest in Peace
3 Stony Silence
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Flooded Strand
6 Island
3 Polluted Delta
3 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
Creatures (16):
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stormchaser Mage
2 Gut Shot
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mutagenic Growth
3 Spell Pierce
3 Twisted Image
3 Vapor Snag
Sorceries (8):
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Blood Moon
2 Dispel
1 Forked Bolt
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Repeal
2 Roast
1 Spell Snare
2 Spellskite
1 Vapor Snag
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Copperline Gorge
5 Mountain
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
4 Wooded Foothills
Creatures (14):
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Atarka's Command
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
3 Searing Blaze
Sorceries (8):
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
2 Deflecting Palm
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Path to Exile
2 Rending Volley
3 Skullcrack
19 Forest
3 Treetop Village
Creatures (24):
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Dryad Militant
2 Dungrove Elder
4 Experiment One
4 Leatherback Baloth
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Rancor
Instants (10):
3 Aspect of Hydra
4 Vines of Vastwood
3 Dismember
2 Choke
2 Gut Shot
2 Deglamer
2 Feed the Clan
2 Oxidize
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Skylasher
1 Unravel the Æther
4x Leonin Arbiter
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x Dark Confidant
4x Tidehollow Sculler
4x Flickerwisp
3x Wasteland Strangler
2x Eldrazi Displacer
2x Spellskite
2x Orzhov Pontiff
1x Stonecloaker
Spells (8)
4x Path to Exile
4x AEther Vial
4x Godless Shrine
4x Plains
4x Ghost Quarter
2x Tectonic Edge
2x Flooded Strand
2x Caves of Koilos
1x Isolated Chapel
1x Eiganjo Castle
1x Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1x Sea Gate Wreckage
2x Mirran Crusader
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
2x Burrenton Forge-Tender
2x Stony Silence
2x Rest in Peace
1x Aven Mindcensor
1x Dismember
2x Pack Rat
1x Orzhov Pontiff
1x Sin Collector
Experimental list I'm thinking of testing. Going down a land, and up on the Confidants/Stranglers. Traded out Kytheon for Skite (lots of infect/twin in my meta), and testing some Eldrazi Displacers in place of Resto Angel. What I really like about this iteration is that it cuts out the plethora of 2x's I had and makes the list more consistent.
I'm not sure how often SGW will be on/useful, it might be better as a tec edge but testing will show. Furthermore Shizo/Eiganjo will be less effective without as many legendary creatures, but pushing/saving Thalia is still useful.
Sideboard is never final, and I have yet to play against B<> Eldrazi yet, which I'm not excited about.
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 leonin arbiter
4 flickerwisp
4 blade splicer
2 Aven mindcensor
3 restoration angel
3 kitchen finks
2 eldrazi displacer
1 mangara of corondor
1 akroma, angel of fury
1 spellskite
4 aether vial
4 path to Exile
Lands 23
4 ghost quarter
3 tectonic edge
2 mutavault
1 sea gate wreckage
1 eiganjo castle
1 Horizon Canopy
11 plains
Something like this will be starting point. Plenty of flicker targets, curved heavy to 3, akroma seems better with extra flicker, finks souls also be good. Skite protects weak creatures like mangara and morph akroma, maybe make room for a second. At same time I can test the one of wreckage. And see how it goes.
WDeath and TaxesW
RWGBurnGWR
4x Aether Vial
Creatures
2x Aven Mindcensor
4x Leonin Arbiter
4x Dark Confidant
4x Tidehollow Sculler
3x Flickerwisp
3x Eldrazi Displacer
3x Wasteland Strangler
2x Thought-Knot Seer
3x Kitchen Finks
2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x Godless Shrine
4x Caves of Koilos
2x Fetid Heath
4x Ghost Quarter
2x Tectonic Edge
2x Isolated Chapel
2x Plains
2x Swamp
2x Burrenton Forge-Tender
3x Stony Silence
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Dismember
2x Disenchant
1x Worship
2x Spellskite
2x Orzhov Pontiff
So far the deck has been a blast. I've lived the dream a few times with wasteland strangler + flickerwisp. Eldrazi Displacer has proven to be a strong mid-game card that makes all the dorky creatures feel very powerful. My main question is ideas to sure up the eldrazi matchup. It's pretty much the only deck I seem to face testing on cockatrice, I imagine the numbers of that deck won't be as high in real life at a tourney. The matchup feels really bad. I've gotten there with the best draws but most times I'm in chump block mode on turn 5. I was thinking worship might be effective as ulamog is really the only answer they have. I've also tried GQ + surgical and boarding in Stony Silence (as was suggested above). Any other ideas on some hate for this matchup?