Linvala, keeper of silence goes a long way towards stopping elves. Then eleminating the lords. Probably the most difficult thing is casting Linvala on the curve.
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Your success in playing dnt/hatebears is determined largely by your ability to read and prepare for the meta that you will be playing in. Furthermore, it has an absolutely brutal learning curve. Expect to lose; a lot.
So I'm looking for good sideboard cards for elves in a Mono White version with the Blue Microsplash and was wondering if anyone's tested Magus of the moat? It seems like it'd be a hard card for Elves to win through once it's on board but I was wondering if anyone who's tested it in their 75 has some helpful insight on it. Is it good in any other matchups? Thanks for all the advice on here and thanks in advance
If you're running U, one of the best SB cards I've found is hibernation
Linvala, keeper of silence goes a long way towards stopping elves. Then eleminating the lords. Probably the most difficult thing is casting Linvala on the curve.
I like Linvala mostly because she stops Ezuri who is the real game ender. She's not that hard to cast against Elves as you wont be destroying their land really, you might Ghost Quarter a Mutavault but that's about it. Because of that there is more than enough land to hit 4. Other than Linvala, Ethersworn Canonist is really good against Elves. It stops the Elf combo with Heritage Druid and Nettle Sentinels. It also stops them just dumping their hand like they do via the dorks they play. Other than that Elves isn't as bad as Fish or Robots as some things in our deck are occasionally relevant. Thalia slowing down CoCo for one and Mindcensor / Arbiter stopping Chord. Fish, Zoo and Robots are really the ying to our yang.
I can never get past the feeling that if this was the old days that would have at least had flying as well though. I'm not too keen on how Wizards are making borderline playable cards without giving them that edge because it's so competitive for any card to match up to what we've got.
Round 1: Jund, 2-0. She got mana screwed so game 1 wasn't much of a game. Game 2 I stuck a Mirran Crusader. She desperation cast a Dark Confidant and then ran out of gas.
Round 2: Dredge (!), 2-1. I thought I was playing Jund until he discarded a Golgari Grave-Troll. Oh my! Game on 1 I lost pretty quickly. Game 2 I got an early Rest in Peace. Game 3 was pretty long and I never found Rest in Peace. On a key turn he attacked with that zombie that you can play from your yard if you control another zombie plus a bunch of other stuff. I made sure the zombie survived combat so he couldn't get more Vengevine triggers. I was able to attack through the gaps for a win. Note: Blade Splicer Golem's line up really nicely against Vengevine.
Round 3: Grixis, 0-2. This one was frustrating. Game 1 I mulliganed to 5 after two no-landers. I saw his Steam Vents and immediately put him on Twin, so I kept mana up for Path to Exile. This cost me a lot of tempo and then on an attack step he fetched + Terminated something. I shifted to a more aggressive plan and had a really good turn with a Restoration Angel, but then he played his main deck Vedalken Shackles and killed me with my own Angel. Game 2 I mulliganed another no-lander and kept a pretty decent hand. He eventually out-valued me. My fun-of Batterskull was stranded in my hand all game. He found Shackles again.
Round 4: Bubble Hulk, 2-0. Game one his deck malfunctioned. He drew probably half of it with Faithless Looting and Serum Visions but didn't find the combo pieces. Game 2 I drew a hand with two Rest in Peace. He Swan Song'd the first one, followed up by a Pyroclasm. I played the second and proceeded to chip away. On his final turn he had 4 lands and I had a Vryn Wingmare. My options were to leave mana up for Path or Tectonic Edge + hold priority + Tectonic edge his lands. I opted for the land destruction route. He was totally locked out of doing anything meaningful.
Overall: I think the Dryad Militant's are a really nice main deck choice. I'm really happy to have more turn one plays and they do a lot of work against Blue and delve decks. The Batterskull was added to give me some more late game power, but it was really bad. I'm going to try a Sword of Fire and Ice instead (still not great, but...). I think this deck is really well positioned right now. It annihilates Tron and I think it would fare well against the new W/B Eldrazi deck. Has anyone tested out that match up?
2-2 Last night. I got steamrolled by Twin (again) and Jund. Mulling to 5 against Twin and getting flooded against Jund didn't help, but this experiment in pulling Lingering Souls showed me that I probably can't get away with that, and there is plenty of evidence that my game plan against Twin isn't getting the job done. Considering shelving this for s couple weeks until OTG hits and the banlist announcement is made as I feel like I'm spinning my wheels here. This deck is about to make some big changes, and I'm not sure tuning this iteration is time well spent.
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“Modern has provided us a non-rotating format that is far more accessible than Legacy or Vintage, but still retains many of the qualities that people enjoy in those formats—such as a more stable metagame, the ability to play and tweak the same deck week after week, and simply a much more powerful card pool than Standard.”
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
What kind of problems are you having against twin? Is it the RU or RUx variety? The deck looks like it could handle twin itself but is getting blown out by removal->snap->removal. Am I close or way off?
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Your success in playing dnt/hatebears is determined largely by your ability to read and prepare for the meta that you will be playing in. Furthermore, it has an absolutely brutal learning curve. Expect to lose; a lot.
Here's what I'm leaning toward in a post-OGW world. Definitely wondering how I'd find 6-7 slots if Stoneforge did become legal, but this seems good for now.
Hi guys,
Long-time lurker here. Been playing D&T for 3+ years now though. I have been trying to innovate a RW D&T build that lets us win with alternative win-con of Kiki-Jiki and Resto Angel (with all of the value creatures) underneath. I've got a few specific questions, but wanted to share the build first:
I would really like feedback from the folks re: the following:
-With the addition of red, what 1-drop creatures would you guys put into a D&T build? Goblin Guide is terrible in a mana denial, resource restriction strategy. Grim Lavamancer may not have enough fuel. With Red in the mix, would you guys still run Dryad Militant? I'm running Vexing Devil because when I ran traditional D&T builds Dryad Militant may get through 1x or 2x at most, which is the same as the sacrifice price.
-Do I have enough value creatures to even be running 1xFlickerwisp + 4x Restoration Angels? I think the Flickerwisp can probably be substituted with a beater (Blade Splicer) or another hatebear (Vryn Wingmare or Aven Mindcensor). As the manabase is a little shaky, there are definitely times when I don't have double white mana to pay on turn 3 so am thinking of casting away Flickerwisp for some other 3-drop without the double-white. Having trouble doing this since I know how AWESOME Flickerwisp is and essential to the WW traditional builds to this deck.
Any thoughts would be great. Been doing a lot of playtesting but plan to take it to LGS Modern night (20-30 players on avg) this Thursday. Will report back.
You are playing too many kikis and not enough flickerwisp. You are never going to be able to cast him at 5 mana and if you tic a vial up you wont get to use it for any other creature. Play 1 kiki and if you draw him its sweet, if you don't the deck still functions.
also you are probably playing too much burn. Playing aether vial turn 1 only to draw a bunch of paths, bolts and helixed sucks. You could try switching vial to SSG and take out flickerwisp completly if you want to go that route.
My suggestion is take a standard white list, throw in 2-3 magus and 1 kiki, then put your bolts, rending vollies and grim lavamancer in the sideboard.
Also I know people here really like the white layeline but its definitely overkill, I'd suggest putting something like Elspeth in, a card that is great to topdeck vs jund type decks but not a blank vs something like zoo.
Your success in playing dnt/hatebears is determined largely by your ability to read and prepare for the meta that you will be playing in. Furthermore, it has an absolutely brutal learning curve. Expect to lose; a lot.
Is there a way to comfortably splash colors in this deck? I've never played it, but have been thinking about running a list along with Magus of the Moon to further tax the opponents land base. With Arbiter, running too many fetches can be difficult, although I assume you can play around your own taxes.
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Modern: UWR Breach, UWB Esper control
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
LtGlitter - Elspeth Knight Errant could be great in SB and worthy replacement over Leyline. I've noticed most recent D&T lists no longer include Leylines in their SBs - back in the day, used to be always be a 2 of in the SB. Willing to go down to 2 Kiki's as multiples sitting in your hand does suck. Still trying to figure out right mix of instants/removal...when is too many lightning bolts and paths ever a bad thing?
dsmonsta - I guess obviously people can tell I do not play Standard because if I did, how the heck did this card escape my gaze??? Definitely finding a way to add this!
ThirdDegree - I will say my manabase is definitely a little muddled, but no more so than the BW build and it can work. The fetches can easily be played around with Arbiter. They could easily be Clifftop Retreats though and the reason they are not is because the fetches help me make sure I keep a Plains on the field if I'm about to drop a Magus on some folks. The hard part about Magus is how awesome she is, but then plenty of other times when you wish desperately she was some kind of a 3-drop beater instead (Blade Splicer, Crusader, Brimaz, even). When she's working she's awesome but when she's not - you notice how much you wish she was a Flickerwisp, Blade Splicer, Crusader or any of the 3-drops found in the traditional WW builds.
This is all great feedback - need to pick up some Alesha's before Thursday!
Don't get me wrong, D&T with a combo finish is a cool idea for sure. My red splash was going to be 100% for Magus and maybe some side board, so it would be a pretty standard D&T build and the Magus just being an extra Tax. So I didn't want to push too heavy on the red. And I wanted to minimize non basics, as I wouldn't be playing many other red spells. This can of course be a horrible idea that I might scrap, but I thought I'd crowd source. How have you run in testing? Have you played any events with that kiki list?
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Modern: UWR Breach, UWB Esper control
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
@ Thought-knot seer: It could be good but lack of evasion I agree does hurt, i also don't like that it really cant be flickered for further shenanigans do to they always draw the card. I probably won;t be playing this main maybe 1-2 in side if people have cards that would be devastating against me. Does give non-black decks a way to see opponents hand and possibly exile an important card
@ Magus of the moon: Magus is decent in the overall meta right now, possibly great in your local meta. Just at times requires further strategy and thought due to the opponent being able to tap otherwise useless fetch lands. I do like the fact that it in the magical 3cmc cost, but many decks it would really hurt like r/g tron have red answers like pyroclasm; it doesn't really due much to most twin decks ( a bit more to the 3 color variants) and it turns off affinities man lands but also keeps extra mana for kataki if they don't have to pay 1 for their citadels. Against jund/k it really depends on the players greed if they are greedy it could end them if not its a minor inconvenience. It can do a lot of work versus infect, boggles, and really screws over amulet. So in a slight splash isn't bad. Red gives you the ability (although rare) to play avalanche riders and use the new eldrazi to blink it every turn to get away from the echo cost and annihilate opposing lands. Also once on the magus play you have to be on it, your subsequent ghost quarters and tec edges will be bad.
@ BMCHU: You must remember a puppy dies every time you cut a flickerwisp THINK OF THE PUPPIES!!!! All kidding aside when running vial you should always max out flickerwisp the card is much too versatile not to. I also agree with cutting down on kiki-jiki, awkward to cast in this deck, although does have synergy it shouldn't be the main focus. Have you considered cutting out the 1 drops all together? With the list you have you should be able to stave off aggro decks enough to win: I also personally would cut down a few of the instants, I know red adds a lot of options but thalia will become more of a tax against yourself in many instances (not saying just run path but maybe cut 2 of the others so 3 path 3 helix or bolt.) Just like others have stated Alesha and avalanche Riders are always great options for red splash.
@ Third degree: Run 3-4 ping lands ( IE Battlefield Forge and 3-4 shocklands should be good enough for a microsplash (if in friendly colors obviously fast lands are better than the ping)
Edit: As a red 1 drop if wanted maybe Legion Loyalist could be decent?
Kiki-Jiki is 3 red mana in his 5 CMC. I agree with what someone said earlier, this idea might be better off as a "Oh Hey Look, just Drew 1 of 2 Kiki's in my deck with a Resto on the board - I win" but I want to test it either way. I am going to LGS tournament tomorrow so will provide report then. The manabase is rough to cast a 3 red mana Kiki. The only way I hardcast him is either: 1. Vial him in 2. Luck with drawing my lands 3. Magus of the Moon acting as an enabler turning my nonbasics into Mountains. That said, I'm still able to get him out more so than not. In playtesting live (quit MTGO a while back), it definitely helps you win games you had no business winning and can get through a lot of the times because even midrange decks have used up a lot of their removal on Arbiters, Thalia's and Magus's so by the time Resto + Kiki comes online - it can actually get through.
Still struggling to fill my 2x 1-drop slots...got Vexing Devil in there currently, but I really liked that Alesha Who Smiles at Death card so want my 1 drop to at least some have synergy with her now.
2-2 Last night. I got steamrolled by Twin (again) and Jund. Mulling to 5 against Twin and getting flooded against Jund didn't help, but this experiment in pulling Lingering Souls showed me that I probably can't get away with that, and there is plenty of evidence that my game plan against Twin isn't getting the job done. Considering shelving this for s couple weeks until OTG hits and the banlist announcement is made as I feel like I'm spinning my wheels here. This deck is about to make some big changes, and I'm not sure tuning this iteration is time well spent.
I don't find Twin is that bad but what I like to do is play a vial early, keep it on 3 and sit on it if they go to combo. If they cast Splintertwin you then use a Flikcerwisp to bounce the Exarch causing Twin to fail. Thalia or Arbiter+aggressive land destruction can keep Twin off of 4 mana as well. Post-board Linvala can stop Twin activating and mainboard you've got stuff like Spellskite or Auriok Champion who can screw with it.
The reason I have stayed away from the red splash is because lack of control (on my part) and the splash becomes more of a boros Land destruction deck. The more I think the more I add and the more red sources I add until I end up with something like this.
I have thought this would work in the past but seems too diluted and inconsistent to go the distance in a large-scale tournament. If you think you like it I chose the fetch lands for additional tech with boom // bust... since you can sac the arid mesa with boom on the stack and only opponent loses a land...same reason why it runs 4x flagstones. some number of fulminator mages would be in the side against greedy decks (Probably with other 2 Magus), zo-zu adds some reach. And the rest is the bare bones of D&T. Also took Tectonic edge out because in this version if they have 4 lands you have probably already lost due to lack of diversity in other D&T builds.
edit: you can also vial in a wisp or resto angel in a wisp on targeted land from boom // bust to make it one sided as well. also the with multiple flagstones makes color fixing a bit more possible by finding a sacred foundry. same with ghost qwuarter a flagstones.
Edit: I have actually been play testing this deck on tapped out and it may be better than i have thought so far.
Is there a way to comfortably splash colors in this deck? I've never played it, but have been thinking about running a list along with Magus of the Moon to further tax the opponents land base. With Arbiter, running too many fetches can be difficult, although I assume you can play around your own taxes.
You can definitely splash red in this deck, but HugeElfBoy is right:
The reason I have stayed away from the red splash is because lack of control (on my part) and the splash becomes more of a boros Land destruction deck.
The red plash gives you better access to land destruction, but it weakens our already-weak matchups against mono-colored decks like Merfolk and Burn.
@ BMCHU: You must remember a puppy dies every time you cut a flickerwisp THINK OF THE PUPPIES!!!! All kidding aside when running vial you should always max out flickerwisp the card is much too versatile not to.
@bmchu168: Please just think of the puppies!
For those people not in on this joke, it originated here:
Still struggling to fill my 2x 1-drop slots...got Vexing Devil in there currently, but I really liked that Alesha Who Smiles at Death card so want my 1 drop to at least some have synergy with her now.
If you need a 1-drop to be synergistic with Alesha, then it should be Kytheon. It's not a guaranteed trigger, but it's close. I'd highly recommend against the Kiki-Resto route, but if you're determined to test it, good luck and let us know how it goes!
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
+1 on Kytheon. His casting cost is misleading. As a one drop, he's lackluster. Properly supported; he can make a huge impact on the board.
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If you're running U, one of the best SB cards I've found is hibernation
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
I like Linvala mostly because she stops Ezuri who is the real game ender. She's not that hard to cast against Elves as you wont be destroying their land really, you might Ghost Quarter a Mutavault but that's about it. Because of that there is more than enough land to hit 4. Other than Linvala, Ethersworn Canonist is really good against Elves. It stops the Elf combo with Heritage Druid and Nettle Sentinels. It also stops them just dumping their hand like they do via the dorks they play. Other than that Elves isn't as bad as Fish or Robots as some things in our deck are occasionally relevant. Thalia slowing down CoCo for one and Mindcensor / Arbiter stopping Chord. Fish, Zoo and Robots are really the ying to our yang.
I can never get past the feeling that if this was the old days that would have at least had flying as well though. I'm not too keen on how Wizards are making borderline playable cards without giving them that edge because it's so competitive for any card to match up to what we've got.
2x Aven Mindcensor
4x Blade Splicer
4x Dryad Militant
4x Flickerwisp
4x Leonin Arbiter
2x Restoration Angel
2x Serra Avenger
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2x Vryn Wingmare
4x Path to Exile
4x AEther Vial
1x Batterskull
Lands
1x Eiganjo Castle
1x Cavern of Souls
4x Ghost Quarter
2x Mutavault
11x Plains
4x Tectonic Edge
1x Auriok Champion
2x Burrenton Forge-Tender
2x Celestial Purge
1x Dismember
2x Mirran Crusader
3x Rest in Peace
4x Stony Silence
Round 1: Jund, 2-0. She got mana screwed so game 1 wasn't much of a game. Game 2 I stuck a Mirran Crusader. She desperation cast a Dark Confidant and then ran out of gas.
Round 2: Dredge (!), 2-1. I thought I was playing Jund until he discarded a Golgari Grave-Troll. Oh my! Game on 1 I lost pretty quickly. Game 2 I got an early Rest in Peace. Game 3 was pretty long and I never found Rest in Peace. On a key turn he attacked with that zombie that you can play from your yard if you control another zombie plus a bunch of other stuff. I made sure the zombie survived combat so he couldn't get more Vengevine triggers. I was able to attack through the gaps for a win. Note: Blade Splicer Golem's line up really nicely against Vengevine.
Round 3: Grixis, 0-2. This one was frustrating. Game 1 I mulliganed to 5 after two no-landers. I saw his Steam Vents and immediately put him on Twin, so I kept mana up for Path to Exile. This cost me a lot of tempo and then on an attack step he fetched + Terminated something. I shifted to a more aggressive plan and had a really good turn with a Restoration Angel, but then he played his main deck Vedalken Shackles and killed me with my own Angel. Game 2 I mulliganed another no-lander and kept a pretty decent hand. He eventually out-valued me. My fun-of Batterskull was stranded in my hand all game. He found Shackles again.
Round 4: Bubble Hulk, 2-0. Game one his deck malfunctioned. He drew probably half of it with Faithless Looting and Serum Visions but didn't find the combo pieces. Game 2 I drew a hand with two Rest in Peace. He Swan Song'd the first one, followed up by a Pyroclasm. I played the second and proceeded to chip away. On his final turn he had 4 lands and I had a Vryn Wingmare. My options were to leave mana up for Path or Tectonic Edge + hold priority + Tectonic edge his lands. I opted for the land destruction route. He was totally locked out of doing anything meaningful.
Overall: I think the Dryad Militant's are a really nice main deck choice. I'm really happy to have more turn one plays and they do a lot of work against Blue and delve decks. The Batterskull was added to give me some more late game power, but it was really bad. I'm going to try a Sword of Fire and Ice instead (still not great, but...). I think this deck is really well positioned right now. It annihilates Tron and I think it would fare well against the new W/B Eldrazi deck. Has anyone tested out that match up?
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
How to Use Spoiler Tags
Starting Over: The Origins of the Mulligan Rule
Practical Approach to Slow Play
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 2: SWARM and TOOLBOX
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 3
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 4
These videos are by MTG Salvation Moderator Lantern!
Introduction to Tempo
Controlling Tempo
Elements of Tempo
Roadblocks to Tempo
How Not To Build A Deck - Tempo
Learn How To Sideboard, Dammit!
Mulligan's Island
The Art of the Mulligan
The Art of the Mulligan: Eight Case Studies
Fundamentals: The Mulligan
Some Mulligan Exercises
A Mulligan Is Worth Three Cards
The Mulligan Debate
Common Sense: The Art of the Mulligan
Who's The Beatdown?
3 Caves of Koilos
3 Eldrazi Temple
2 Fetid Heath
3 Godless Shrine
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Plains
3 Shambling Vent
2 Tectonic Edge
Artifacts (4):
4 Æther Vial
4 Path to Exile
Creatures (29):
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
4 Serra Avenger
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Wasteland Strangler
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Dismember
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Rest in Peace
3 Stony Silence
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Flooded Strand
6 Island
3 Polluted Delta
3 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
Creatures (16):
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stormchaser Mage
2 Gut Shot
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mutagenic Growth
3 Spell Pierce
3 Twisted Image
3 Vapor Snag
Sorceries (8):
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Blood Moon
2 Dispel
1 Forked Bolt
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Repeal
2 Roast
1 Spell Snare
2 Spellskite
1 Vapor Snag
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Copperline Gorge
5 Mountain
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
4 Wooded Foothills
Creatures (14):
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Atarka's Command
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
3 Searing Blaze
Sorceries (8):
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
2 Deflecting Palm
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Path to Exile
2 Rending Volley
3 Skullcrack
19 Forest
3 Treetop Village
Creatures (24):
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Dryad Militant
2 Dungrove Elder
4 Experiment One
4 Leatherback Baloth
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Rancor
Instants (10):
3 Aspect of Hydra
4 Vines of Vastwood
3 Dismember
2 Choke
2 Gut Shot
2 Deglamer
2 Feed the Clan
2 Oxidize
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Skylasher
1 Unravel the Æther
4 Blade Splicer
2 Dryad Militant
2 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Kitchen Finks
4 Leonin Arbiter
2 Restoration Angel
2 Serra Avenger
2 Spirit of the Labyrinth
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Vryn Wingmare
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
Lands
14 Plains
4 Tectonic Edge
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
1 Celestial Flare
1 Dismember
1 Kitchen Finks
3 Kor Firewalker
1 Mirran Crusader
2 Rest in Peace
3 Stony Silence
2 Sunlance
1 Vryn Wingmare
Long-time lurker here. Been playing D&T for 3+ years now though. I have been trying to innovate a RW D&T build that lets us win with alternative win-con of Kiki-Jiki and Resto Angel (with all of the value creatures) underneath. I've got a few specific questions, but wanted to share the build first:
Creatures - 25
3 Vexing Devil
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Blade Splicer
3 Magus of the Moon
1 Flickerwisp
2 Kitchen Finks
4 Restoration Angel
3 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Artifacts - 4
4 Aether Vial
Instants - 8
3 Path to Exile
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Lightning Helix
Lands - 23
3 Windswept Heath
4 Sacred Foundry
6 Plains
1 Mountain
2 Clifftop Retreat
1 Eiganjo Castle
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Tectonic Edge
Sideboard
2 Rending Volley
2 Celestial Purge
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Stony Silence
2 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Kor Firewalker
1 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Spellskite
I would really like feedback from the folks re: the following:
-With the addition of red, what 1-drop creatures would you guys put into a D&T build? Goblin Guide is terrible in a mana denial, resource restriction strategy. Grim Lavamancer may not have enough fuel. With Red in the mix, would you guys still run Dryad Militant? I'm running Vexing Devil because when I ran traditional D&T builds Dryad Militant may get through 1x or 2x at most, which is the same as the sacrifice price.
-Do I have enough value creatures to even be running 1xFlickerwisp + 4x Restoration Angels? I think the Flickerwisp can probably be substituted with a beater (Blade Splicer) or another hatebear (Vryn Wingmare or Aven Mindcensor). As the manabase is a little shaky, there are definitely times when I don't have double white mana to pay on turn 3 so am thinking of casting away Flickerwisp for some other 3-drop without the double-white. Having trouble doing this since I know how AWESOME Flickerwisp is and essential to the WW traditional builds to this deck.
Any thoughts would be great. Been doing a lot of playtesting but plan to take it to LGS Modern night (20-30 players on avg) this Thursday. Will report back.
also you are probably playing too much burn. Playing aether vial turn 1 only to draw a bunch of paths, bolts and helixed sucks. You could try switching vial to SSG and take out flickerwisp completly if you want to go that route.
My suggestion is take a standard white list, throw in 2-3 magus and 1 kiki, then put your bolts, rending vollies and grim lavamancer in the sideboard.
Also I know people here really like the white layeline but its definitely overkill, I'd suggest putting something like Elspeth in, a card that is great to topdeck vs jund type decks but not a blank vs something like zoo.
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
dsmonsta - I guess obviously people can tell I do not play Standard because if I did, how the heck did this card escape my gaze??? Definitely finding a way to add this!
ThirdDegree - I will say my manabase is definitely a little muddled, but no more so than the BW build and it can work. The fetches can easily be played around with Arbiter. They could easily be Clifftop Retreats though and the reason they are not is because the fetches help me make sure I keep a Plains on the field if I'm about to drop a Magus on some folks. The hard part about Magus is how awesome she is, but then plenty of other times when you wish desperately she was some kind of a 3-drop beater instead (Blade Splicer, Crusader, Brimaz, even). When she's working she's awesome but when she's not - you notice how much you wish she was a Flickerwisp, Blade Splicer, Crusader or any of the 3-drops found in the traditional WW builds.
This is all great feedback - need to pick up some Alesha's before Thursday!
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
@ Magus of the moon: Magus is decent in the overall meta right now, possibly great in your local meta. Just at times requires further strategy and thought due to the opponent being able to tap otherwise useless fetch lands. I do like the fact that it in the magical 3cmc cost, but many decks it would really hurt like r/g tron have red answers like pyroclasm; it doesn't really due much to most twin decks ( a bit more to the 3 color variants) and it turns off affinities man lands but also keeps extra mana for kataki if they don't have to pay 1 for their citadels. Against jund/k it really depends on the players greed if they are greedy it could end them if not its a minor inconvenience. It can do a lot of work versus infect, boggles, and really screws over amulet. So in a slight splash isn't bad. Red gives you the ability (although rare) to play avalanche riders and use the new eldrazi to blink it every turn to get away from the echo cost and annihilate opposing lands. Also once on the magus play you have to be on it, your subsequent ghost quarters and tec edges will be bad.
@ BMCHU: You must remember a puppy dies every time you cut a flickerwisp THINK OF THE PUPPIES!!!! All kidding aside when running vial you should always max out flickerwisp the card is much too versatile not to. I also agree with cutting down on kiki-jiki, awkward to cast in this deck, although does have synergy it shouldn't be the main focus. Have you considered cutting out the 1 drops all together? With the list you have you should be able to stave off aggro decks enough to win: I also personally would cut down a few of the instants, I know red adds a lot of options but thalia will become more of a tax against yourself in many instances (not saying just run path but maybe cut 2 of the others so 3 path 3 helix or bolt.) Just like others have stated Alesha and avalanche Riders are always great options for red splash.
@ Third degree: Run 3-4 ping lands ( IE Battlefield Forge and 3-4 shocklands should be good enough for a microsplash (if in friendly colors obviously fast lands are better than the ping)
Edit: As a red 1 drop if wanted maybe Legion Loyalist could be decent?
WDeath and TaxesW
RWGBurnGWR
Still struggling to fill my 2x 1-drop slots...got Vexing Devil in there currently, but I really liked that Alesha Who Smiles at Death card so want my 1 drop to at least some have synergy with her now.
I don't find Twin is that bad but what I like to do is play a vial early, keep it on 3 and sit on it if they go to combo. If they cast Splintertwin you then use a Flikcerwisp to bounce the Exarch causing Twin to fail. Thalia or Arbiter+aggressive land destruction can keep Twin off of 4 mana as well. Post-board Linvala can stop Twin activating and mainboard you've got stuff like Spellskite or Auriok Champion who can screw with it.
3 Thalia, Guardian of thraben
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Flickerwisp
4 Blade splicer
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Magus of the moon
2 zo-zu the punisher
2 Restoration Angel
2 Avalanche Riders
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to exile
4 Boom // bust
Lands 23
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Battlefield Forge
4 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Arid Mesa
4 Sacred Foundry
5 plains
I have thought this would work in the past but seems too diluted and inconsistent to go the distance in a large-scale tournament. If you think you like it I chose the fetch lands for additional tech with boom // bust... since you can sac the arid mesa with boom on the stack and only opponent loses a land...same reason why it runs 4x flagstones. some number of fulminator mages would be in the side against greedy decks (Probably with other 2 Magus), zo-zu adds some reach. And the rest is the bare bones of D&T. Also took Tectonic edge out because in this version if they have 4 lands you have probably already lost due to lack of diversity in other D&T builds.
edit: you can also vial in a wisp or resto angel in a wisp on targeted land from boom // bust to make it one sided as well. also the with multiple flagstones makes color fixing a bit more possible by finding a sacred foundry. same with ghost qwuarter a flagstones.
Edit: I have actually been play testing this deck on tapped out and it may be better than i have thought so far.
WDeath and TaxesW
RWGBurnGWR
The red plash gives you better access to land destruction, but it weakens our already-weak matchups against mono-colored decks like Merfolk and Burn.
@bmchu168: Please just think of the puppies!
For those people not in on this joke, it originated here:
Ever since, we've been maxing out on Wisps to save puppies from Sheepz.
If you need a 1-drop to be synergistic with Alesha, then it should be Kytheon. It's not a guaranteed trigger, but it's close. I'd highly recommend against the Kiki-Resto route, but if you're determined to test it, good luck and let us know how it goes!
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