@Lukystrike:
Congrats on your finish! If you are not looking for opinions on your deck, stop reading here
I thought I'd give some opinions because you want to "seek out new ways to perform the best deck".
I really miss a 23rd land in your deck with 2 four drops and a five and you have no mana dorks. I don't want to say it's stupid or wrong, but it'd run smoother and more consistent in the long run.
SotL is underwhelming to me and dies to every sneeze. There's so little carddraw in modern. Serum Visions, Gitaxian Probe and Thoughscour all get played before SotL is down. Mikokoro is nice but too cute IMO.
You NEED 2 Spellskites. At least in the SB, most people here play it MD.
I love your 2 Mutavaults with 4 Splicers and 6 Flickerers.
Regarding this I'd change:
-1 Mikokoro
+1 Tectonic Edge
-2 SotL
+2 Spellskite
-1 one drop
+1 Wland
Thank you for the tips.
I honestly can say that i never felt the lack of the twenty-third land, because, although not dorks mana, there is always vial. Also I'm afraid to go in excess of mana.
As for SotL, although many have 1 mana draw, often happens that the opponents have them in hand when he is already in the field, especially if we start, creating death cards. Imagine sphere of tron, draw resources of merfolks. Cutting him i should cut Mikokoro too, which, although not the best card drawing source, gives us a hand when we need new fuel. As we might otherwise be able to pick ourselves up? Are there any other valid source of draught?
I'll probably go to insert 1 spellskite MD, that lacks objectively to the list, instead of 1 thalia.
The wingmare I have not yet tried, but I think they could find space sooner or later. Is that I'm not sure that I can give, in their place, Midcensor. Their Flash skills makes them really very functional.
Sunday I will have a local tournament from 30/50 people.
I will let you know about my performance.:)
@passthechips yea I started testing it and it's hard to cut it out of the sb now. So many opponents just look at it and try to figure out how they are losing to it all the time. In example, against storm last week, I was able to use it against pyromancer Ascension. Cutting off an electromancer and then a flicker reset onto his ascension. Also against Jund, I was able to blank an early goyf and then reset for a Lilianna later on the same game. Against tron, I can exile a oblivion stone or planeswalker and hopefully win the game on time. Also helpful against bogles! It'll also be great insurance against opposing worships as I see them getting more popular lately (Kiki chord and this troll deck that popped up). Lastly, against affinity I was able to negate that stupid red grid card after a stony silence. Other cards are able to do this stuff, just not with a single sb slot. Considering I main 3 spellskites, I'm also not too concerned about enchantment removal.
May not ever get council's judgement for modern but this is a fine replacement. Now only if they would give us containment priest!
Hey man, first of all congratulations! We play very very similar lists. I have a question, do you not play mutavaults with 4 splicers main?
I'm currently testing Hangarback Walkers for long grindy games (not sure on them yet) and chalice of the void in the SB, as my local meta is currently packed with burn and affinity, and I like its versatility.
Blade splicer is so good against etched champion.
I do play 2 mutavaults, i must have did the list wrong. The mutavaults are the best addition to my lands ever.
I'd like to test chalice of the void as well ... maybe i'll grab one copy and try it SB.
Let me know if you test it out, i'm also interested in a list with the walkers.
The real question here is if Alesha is a playable card, why not Order of Whiteclay? I've harped on him before, but I can never find a copy to trade for and test with.
I think the reason hes not playable is because the ability costs 3 mana and requires him to be tapped. I guess you could be attacking with him turn 4 and untapping turn 5, but I think I'd rather play mangara or anything else that costs 3.
The real question here is if Alesha is a playable card, why not Order of Whiteclay? I've harped on him before, but I can never find a copy to trade for and test with.
I think the reason hes not playable is because the ability costs 3 mana and requires him to be tapped. I guess you could be attacking with him turn 4 and untapping turn 5, but I think I'd rather play mangara or anything else that costs 3.
If you played him on turn 3 you can attack and untap on turn 4, it's the same as Alesha but one more mana in exchange for 3 cmc or less instead of 2 power or less (so it works with all of our deck vs some).
Edit: You also don't have to use it immediately, and save the untap for your opponent's turn (relevant instant speed Flickerwisps).
What do people think about phyrexian arena in the wb lists?
It's significantly worse than Dark Confidant. I understand why you ask the question (it's essentially the same debate as Pithing Needle/Revoker), but like our taxes, everything is better with legs.
Sheepz used to experiment with running Confidant in a WB list that had a really low mana curve:
This is my most recent, somewhat experimental board. Tweaking side a bit, It's geared toward an MTGO meta. I wanna jam pack rat in the 75 somewhere, but I'm not sure where. The triple side removal is experimental, as are the familiars main, but so far in testing im really liking them. This is at least a CLOSE approximate to what I aim to run, and certainly wouldn't feel uncomfortable taking this to a tournament. The key here is seeing if I can drop the curve to win fast enough to either lean on stabalizing with vault for life gain, or being able to strategically play and flicker confidant to avoid life loss. I'm not that comfortable a confidant player due to just recently acquiring the playset. But the mana base is certainly where I wanna be at, I've tweaked that for over a year and it's at a consistency level I am most pleased with.
My reaction back then was essentially the same as the reaction I have now:
I'm not convinced that Dark Confidant is worth it, but I'm really impressed by that effort. The average CMC in that list is 1.3. Granted, I'm neither accounting for the Dark Confidant in play, nor the lands required to play it. But still, You've managed to put together a list where every 3 turns, you'll lose 4 life (on average). You're really pushing the point where Dark Confidant becomes a cheaper Phyrexian Arena with legs. Bravo.
The beauty of Dark Confidant is that opponents don't know whether to kill it or let it live, because they don't have access to your list. In a vacuum, the right move is almost always to remove the Confidant, but you can frequently catch opponents asleep at the switch, hoping that the self-inflicted Confidant damage will outweigh the card advantage. As a result, you can occasionally swing into anything, because opponents don't realize how important it is to block. For the entire game, they secretly hope that you'll topdeck something like Tasigur, thereby validating their bad decision-making.
Sheepz did this right.
In a properly designed, Confidant-enabled list, the average CMC of the spells should be incredibly low, and it should punish anyone that lets Confidant stay on the board. Sheepz had a list where the average CMC was 1.3, and Confidant played like a cheaper, easier-to-cast, Phyrexian Arena with legs. If you think our opponents get salty about our taxes, just wait until you EOT Vial in a Confidant. On your next turn, Confidant will replace itself in your hand and swing for 2.
Phyrexian Arena is best suited for midrange WB lists that have a relatively high mana curve (I'm looking at you, Catmix ), but it's not even good there because it comes down afterThalia. You just never really want Arena as your three-drop. That slot is already crowded in this deck, and it's much better to be playing a threat.
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
Here some game play questions i had, thanks to anyone who'll try to answer them :
On turn 1, i have 1 plains and 1 mutavault. I also have Kytheon and Aether Vial. Do i Mutavault -> Vial or Plains -> Kytheon? Is it the same when going 2nd?
I got my ass handed to me by Amulet Bloom, it was my first time against that deck. What's the best way to counter them? I boarded Sundering Growth, but it wasn't enough, i was dead within 3-4 turns.
On turn 2, i have enough mana for Arbiter and i have the vial at 1 counter, so i know that next turn i can vial in Arbiter as a surprise. Do i cast Leonin, or wait next turn for the surprise effect?
When Thalia, Leonin are ready Turn 2 ... Thalia or Leonin first?
I think that's it ... all comments are welcome. If you also have some tricks you use against certain decks or situation, i would interested in knowing them. I'm doing more and more competitive on MTGO, and some situations arise that i'm not comfortable with, and your help could surely help.
@Charon_Obol - I currently have a lot of experience with Dark Confidant and run a list that has a slightly lower CMC than Sheepz as a result of not running resto and running more Thalia. It's hard to say which card is the best in my deck, but Dark Confidant is definitely up there.
While you're sometimes right about your opponent not knowing whether to bolt Dark Confidant, I'm always forcing them to into a spot where they have to. I very frequently have a board presence on turn 3 with a Thalia/Arbiter + Arbiter/Sculler + Dark Confidant and my opponents are generally only limited to using one removal spell on their turn, if I didn't snag it from them with Sculler. The correct play is to get rid of Confidant, and they spend their whole turn doing so allowing me to develop safely next turn and keep my vial up. Conversely if they get rid of the arbiter/thalia/sculler they still wasted their whole turn doing so, but now they lose card advantage as they're down a card and I'm up a card with Dark Confidant, and they still have to remove Confidant the following turn or they've definitely lost the game. In short, if you untap with Dark Confidant you virtually always 2 for 1 your opponent, and this is easy to accomplish with Vial/Sculler. This is not something any beater in the same slot can always guarantee.
To put it into perspective I think I've only lost one game ever where I was allowed to untap with Dark Confidant on the battlefield, and that was due to a misplay against the recent new deck Knightfall, in which I wasn't to sure if I locked them out (and I was an idiot and didn't side in RiP). The amount of card advantage he provides is insane, and this deck is perfectly primed to take advantage of it with vial.
There's a surprising amount of times where I go balls to the walls and have two Dark Confidants out, and even when I flipped two 3 CMC creatures (so worst-case scenario) on one turn and dropped down to 4 life against bant company I was able to play the Mirran Crusader, keep up a Path to Exile I drew after the Confidants and keep the Flickerwisp I drew on "vial mana" to flicker the angel token, kill geist and swing on the backcrack for the win. Another instance is where I Scullered (with Thalia out) a Jeskai opponent taking his bolt, and vialed in a Dark Confidant, which he immediately pathed, and on the following turn I played another Confidant, and he was dead in the water. In other games, I just flipped through lands/vials/paths and was able to churn through my deck at no cost. It's always a win-win scenario with Confidant.
I really like the card and can't recommend it enough to BW players.
Here some game play questions i had, thanks to anyone who'll try to answer them :
On turn 1, i have 1 plains and 1 mutavault. I also have Kytheon and Aether Vial. Do i Mutavault -> Vial or Plains -> Kytheon? Is it the same when going 2nd?
I got my ass handed to me by Amulet Bloom, it was my first time against that deck. What's the best way to counter them? I boarded Sundering Growth, but it wasn't enough, i was dead within 3-4 turns.
On turn 2, i have enough mana for Arbiter and i have the vial at 1 counter, so i know that next turn i can vial in Arbiter as a surprise. Do i cast Leonin, or wait next turn for the surprise effect?
When Thalia, Leonin are ready Turn 2 ... Thalia or Leonin first?
I think that's it ... all comments are welcome. If you also have some tricks you use against certain decks or situation, i would interested in knowing them. I'm doing more and more competitive on MTGO, and some situations arise that i'm not comfortable with, and your help could surely help.
Thanks guys,
1) play plains - aether vial. Or Muta vault aether vial. Turn two vial Kytheon in. You will be down two damage but will get to flip him at the same time.
2) Either play leonin arbiter turn 2, thalia turn two, or ghost quarter their bounce land when they play it on turn to with amulet out and hope they don't have a second one.
3) if your opponent has a fetch land in play and no creatures don't bother playing arbiter. They are just going to fetch in response then bolt him or something on your turn. Better to hold off and use the vial.
4) It depends on what your opponent has done. If they have more spells than creatures and have already used 1-2 fetch lands play Thalia. If you expect them to be playing a fetch land on their 2nd or 3rd turn then play arbiter. Really depends on the game.
@Charon_Obol - I currently have a lot of experience with Dark Confidant and run a list that has a slightly lower CMC than Sheepz as a result of not running resto and running more Thalia. It's hard to say which card is the best in my deck, but Dark Confidant is definitely up there.
While you're sometimes right about your opponent not knowing whether to bolt Dark Confidant, I'm always forcing them to into a spot where they have to. I very frequently have a board presence on turn 3 with a Thalia/Arbiter + Arbiter/Sculler + Dark Confidant and my opponents are generally only limited to using one removal spell on their turn, if I didn't snag it from them with Sculler. The correct play is to get rid of Confidant, and they spend their whole turn doing so allowing me to develop safely next turn and keep my vial up. Conversely if they get rid of the arbiter/thalia/sculler they still wasted their whole turn doing so, but now they lose card advantage as they're down a card and I'm up a card with Dark Confidant, and they still have to remove Confidant the following turn or they've definitely lost the game. In short, if you untap with Dark Confidant you virtually always 2 for 1 your opponent, and this is easy to accomplish with Vial/Sculler. This is not something any beater in the same slot can always guarantee.
To put it into perspective I think I've only lost one game ever where I was allowed to untap with Dark Confidant on the battlefield, and that was due to a misplay against the recent new deck Knightfall, in which I wasn't to sure if I locked them out (and I was an idiot and didn't side in RiP). The amount of card advantage he provides is insane, and this deck is perfectly primed to take advantage of it with vial.
There's a surprising amount of times where I go balls to the walls and have two Dark Confidants out, and even when I flipped two 3 CMC creatures (so worst-case scenario) on one turn and dropped down to 4 life against bant company I was able to play the Mirran Crusader, keep up a Path to Exile I drew after the Confidants and keep the Flickerwisp I drew on "vial mana" to flicker the angel token, kill geist and swing on the backcrack for the win. Another instance is where I Scullered (with Thalia out) a Jeskai opponent taking his bolt, and vialed in a Dark Confidant, which he immediately pathed, and on the following turn I played another Confidant, and he was dead in the water. In other games, I just flipped through lands/vials/paths and was able to churn through my deck at no cost. It's always a win-win scenario with Confidant.
I really like the card and can't recommend it enough to BW players.
What does your build look like with Dark Confidant? I am really interested in a build with Sculler and Confidant. I was thinking about something like this to go full on control:
Hey guys! So I could really use some help. I just got some short notice that I'll be in small invite only tournament this weekend. I know that feel will have some number of burn and affinity, an infect player, an ad nauseam player and scape shift player. This is also potentially a twin and mono green devotion player as well.
I'm going to be on WB dnt. I dint have a soldified list and would really like suggestions on either a list or potential cardz/sb cards.
I have to say I'm not a fan of blade splicer in a field with tasigur, angler, kommand, rhino, and goyfs. I also think its impact vs affinity is pretty negligible due to the fact that a smart affinity player isn't going to lose his champion to a golem token, they can just slow roll or wait for ravager.
I'm probably cutting into the Blade Splicer slots for Brimaz or something similar/jank. I'm also considering swapping out Wingmare for the Mindcensor in the side.
A note of importance; I personally found that 3x Dark Confidant is probably the best number for this deck. Every other two drop is more important to lay down first, and Confidant is more or less there to take advantage of the disruption you place on the board. I found with 4x I sometimes had hands that were very low in disruption. Though this could be just my experience with Confidant, you're welcome to try the 4x.
I also am extremely happy with 2x Strangler + 1x Cloaker in the mainboard. The synergy between them and Sculler is fantastic, and it's like you're taking the Flickerwisp shenanigans (half the reason I play this deck) and go into overdrive.
@PasstheChips: I have to say, I really like that list.
I do have one question for you though. Is there any reason you're running Blade Splicer over a differently aggressive 3-drop-slot creature (like Brimaz, Lingering Souls, or Pack Rat)?
To be fair, this is D&T, and Blade Splicer is awesome. But you only have 4 flicker effects (5 if you count Stonecloaker). How often do you find yourself targeting your Blade Splicer as opposed to something else?
I realize that it does have other benefits though. Splicer makes that Mutavault better, and it makes it easier to flip Kytheon.
Again, that's a great looking list. It really makes me want to pick up WB D&T.
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
Hey guys. So I kinda went crazy on the modern leagues. I have been playing a lot. I have now played all of my versions of D&T that are up and running in league (except Death and Tempo because I'm not sure it counts as up and running. When it works, it's not bad, I feel like it's more dependent on vial. I also don't currently have a functioning version of RW D&T. Aaand I've been playing my faeries deck, but shh. Sorry guys.) So I could take almost a whole page with aaaall my results, but I assume you all don't want that. I'll just briefly say how each version worked and if you want more specifics on any one, I'll share a up to date list.
Mono W (micro U)
Honestly, I forgot how many utility lands mono W can fit. Wow. It's nice. When I was playing this list, it was the first time I actually felt like I wanted serra avenger. If I remember correctly I got 2-3 (maybe it was 3-2) and earlier, 1-4. I really did like the two spellskites main. I think if they can be fit, in a meta this removal heavy ,it's pretty good. Also it helps some strange matches like boggles. The second time was better after some tuning. Maybe I should try to fit MD avenger. But not at the cost of resto. Resto and mindcensor are still good as ever as far as I'm concerned.
Actual WU (not tempo. more midrange)
This list tries to abuse anafenza fully by using finks and glen elendra archmage. I thought maybe because I had enough dispruption a list like this could maybe support mangara. I never get to use him and I often sided him out. The list performed pretty well though. It seems as good as many of the WB lists I've played. Another 3-2 I think.
WB (strangler list)
I like it. I got to live the dream and use flickerwisp plus strangler to kill a land and a creature. Wowza. But, the timing for that is a little weird, because I wanted to cut him off a land during his turn and I only had 1 vial on 3. But I still like it. I also get to use tidehollow sculer with it. It's nice. I was running millitant, but I felt like a list like this really wants familiar, but I'm not sure because of strangler. I know you all like millitant, but I'm still not sold. I feel like maybe my old list with confidant might be better, but the spot removal definitely was nice (against everything but tron). Yet again, 3-2.
WG ('ol bessy- the tried and true)
The list always does really well. The first time I played it I got 4-1 because I made a dumb mistake and it cost me the game. Still feels good though. I'm in the process of playing another league with it right now and I'm pretty sure I'm going to get 4-1 this time again. For those of you who don't know, this is the Coco list. And man. That extra bit of instant speed is really nice. I've had it fail a few times, but I really think a card like this helps bring you back into the game if you're behind or win if you're equal. It's so good.
It pains me to say it, buuut...maybe finks is slightly more appropriate right now. In general that is. Of course in the WU list with anafenza, there's no decision. In my GW, the ability to coco splicer flicker is too good. In black, I don't want to stretch the mana, but I think I wanted the life. In W I had max flickering and so could really turn up the power with splicer, but there were times I really wanted lifegain. But maybe I'm just saying finks right now because the leagues have been infected with burn style decks.
@PasstheChips: I have to say, I really like that list.
I do have one question for you though. Is there any reason you're running Blade Splicer over a differently aggressive 3-drop-slot creature (like Brimaz, Lingering Souls, or Pack Rat)?
To be fair, this is D&T, and Blade Splicer is awesome. But you only have 4 flicker effects (5 if you count Stonecloaker). How often do you find yourself targeting your Blade Splicer as opposed to something else?
I realize that it does have other benefits though. Splicer makes that Mutavault better, and it makes it easier to flip Kytheon.
Again, that's a great looking list. It really makes me want to pick up WB D&T.
Simply because I haven't tested anything else haha. I guess if I was to give a legitimate reason it's that Blade Splicer isn't color dense, and sometimes double white can be a problem (God how I wish we had B/W fastlands). I'm thinking about cutting Mutavault and going for a Fetid Heath to help in that regard, but sometimes that vault really pushes the agro plan well.
Once I find a Brimaz it'll definitely go in for a spin, it seems really solid, surviving both bolt and KCommand, and is probably better in flipping Kytheon as I rarely want to attack with the Splicer itself. It also plays really well with Shizo/Eiganjo which is always great to have that redundancy.
I don't think the meta (at least the one I'm in) is grindy enough for Pack Rat, but I might have to test it again. Getting those turn 3 vial in + activate Pack rat turns is to die for.
As for Lingering Souls, I haven't considered it, but just imagining those Thalia + Lingering Souls hands... Then again those Pontiff + Souls hands...
I'm probably cutting into the Blade Splicer slots for Brimaz or something similar/jank. I'm also considering swapping out Wingmare for the Mindcensor in the side.
A note of importance; I personally found that 3x Dark Confidant is probably the best number for this deck. Every other two drop is more important to lay down first, and Confidant is more or less there to take advantage of the disruption you place on the board. I found with 4x I sometimes had hands that were very low in disruption. Though this could be just my experience with Confidant, you're welcome to try the 4x.
I also am extremely happy with 2x Strangler + 1x Cloaker in the mainboard. The synergy between them and Sculler is fantastic, and it's like you're taking the Flickerwisp shenanigans (half the reason I play this deck) and go into overdrive.
Still not sure what to put in the other sideboard slots.
What I really like about both of these lists is that they're not trying to shoehorn in "all the good WB stuff" and are instead focused on optimizing the Sculler-Strangler plan in a D&T shell. I think this is going to be the way to go with playing the card maindeck.
I'm still on the fence on its sideboard potential, especially as I continue to add cards to my board that increase the number of cards being exiled. I think, for Lingering Taxes, we're primarily playing the card as a 3/2 Devoid creature with an occasional upside in our sideboard...if we're playing it at all. I really like the card, but I haven't decided it I prefer it or Kataki in that slot. God help me, I'm even considering trying out O-Ring again after deathandcatmix's reports back on playing it out of the board, though I'm not sure that's good enough without Restoration Angel to maximize the flicker effects. The frustrating reality of this possible board choice is that even it makes Strangler potentially more effective.
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“Modern has provided us a non-rotating format that is far more accessible than Legacy or Vintage, but still retains many of the qualities that people enjoy in those formats—such as a more stable metagame, the ability to play and tweak the same deck week after week, and simply a much more powerful card pool than Standard.”
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
@originalscreen and fenix I'd change the land a Lil bit, swap a plains for a swamp and a tech edge for a vault of the archangel. Also three beaters is pretty low on that side, you might want to have a side board of more.
Seems like my long reply was cut off sorry.
Chris
Lol, for some reason when I quoted F3n1x it labeled his deck as mine. I'm actually playing the Mono W version I posted a few pages back with a few changes to the sideboard. I know he made changes (maybe land base) that is not reflected in his post too so I'll update after today with final lists.
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Thank you for the tips.
I honestly can say that i never felt the lack of the twenty-third land, because, although not dorks mana, there is always vial. Also I'm afraid to go in excess of mana.
As for SotL, although many have 1 mana draw, often happens that the opponents have them in hand when he is already in the field, especially if we start, creating death cards. Imagine sphere of tron, draw resources of merfolks. Cutting him i should cut Mikokoro too, which, although not the best card drawing source, gives us a hand when we need new fuel. As we might otherwise be able to pick ourselves up? Are there any other valid source of draught?
I'll probably go to insert 1 spellskite MD, that lacks objectively to the list, instead of 1 thalia.
The wingmare I have not yet tried, but I think they could find space sooner or later. Is that I'm not sure that I can give, in their place, Midcensor. Their Flash skills makes them really very functional.
Sunday I will have a local tournament from 30/50 people.
I will let you know about my performance.:)
May not ever get council's judgement for modern but this is a fine replacement. Now only if they would give us containment priest!
WWModern Death And Taxes (w/ Militia Bugler) (JUL '19)
GWModern Maverick (JUL '19)
WBCatmix on Twitch!
WWCatmix on Youtube
I do play 2 mutavaults, i must have did the list wrong. The mutavaults are the best addition to my lands ever.
I'd like to test chalice of the void as well ... maybe i'll grab one copy and try it SB.
Let me know if you test it out, i'm also interested in a list with the walkers.
I think the reason hes not playable is because the ability costs 3 mana and requires him to be tapped. I guess you could be attacking with him turn 4 and untapping turn 5, but I think I'd rather play mangara or anything else that costs 3.
If you played him on turn 3 you can attack and untap on turn 4, it's the same as Alesha but one more mana in exchange for 3 cmc or less instead of 2 power or less (so it works with all of our deck vs some).
Edit: You also don't have to use it immediately, and save the untap for your opponent's turn (relevant instant speed Flickerwisps).
Sheepz used to experiment with running Confidant in a WB list that had a really low mana curve:
My reaction back then was essentially the same as the reaction I have now:
The beauty of Dark Confidant is that opponents don't know whether to kill it or let it live, because they don't have access to your list. In a vacuum, the right move is almost always to remove the Confidant, but you can frequently catch opponents asleep at the switch, hoping that the self-inflicted Confidant damage will outweigh the card advantage. As a result, you can occasionally swing into anything, because opponents don't realize how important it is to block. For the entire game, they secretly hope that you'll topdeck something like Tasigur, thereby validating their bad decision-making.
Sheepz did this right.
In a properly designed, Confidant-enabled list, the average CMC of the spells should be incredibly low, and it should punish anyone that lets Confidant stay on the board. Sheepz had a list where the average CMC was 1.3, and Confidant played like a cheaper, easier-to-cast, Phyrexian Arena with legs. If you think our opponents get salty about our taxes, just wait until you EOT Vial in a Confidant. On your next turn, Confidant will replace itself in your hand and swing for 2.
Phyrexian Arena is best suited for midrange WB lists that have a relatively high mana curve (I'm looking at you, Catmix ), but it's not even good there because it comes down after Thalia. You just never really want Arena as your three-drop. That slot is already crowded in this deck, and it's much better to be playing a threat.
WUDeath&TaxesWG
Legacy
UBRGDredgeUBRG
UHigh TideU
URGLandsURG
WR Card Choice List
WUR American D&T
WUB Esper D&T
The Reserved List
Heat Maps
I think that's it ... all comments are welcome. If you also have some tricks you use against certain decks or situation, i would interested in knowing them. I'm doing more and more competitive on MTGO, and some situations arise that i'm not comfortable with, and your help could surely help.
Thanks guys,
While you're sometimes right about your opponent not knowing whether to bolt Dark Confidant, I'm always forcing them to into a spot where they have to. I very frequently have a board presence on turn 3 with a Thalia/Arbiter + Arbiter/Sculler + Dark Confidant and my opponents are generally only limited to using one removal spell on their turn, if I didn't snag it from them with Sculler. The correct play is to get rid of Confidant, and they spend their whole turn doing so allowing me to develop safely next turn and keep my vial up. Conversely if they get rid of the arbiter/thalia/sculler they still wasted their whole turn doing so, but now they lose card advantage as they're down a card and I'm up a card with Dark Confidant, and they still have to remove Confidant the following turn or they've definitely lost the game. In short, if you untap with Dark Confidant you virtually always 2 for 1 your opponent, and this is easy to accomplish with Vial/Sculler. This is not something any beater in the same slot can always guarantee.
To put it into perspective I think I've only lost one game ever where I was allowed to untap with Dark Confidant on the battlefield, and that was due to a misplay against the recent new deck Knightfall, in which I wasn't to sure if I locked them out (and I was an idiot and didn't side in RiP). The amount of card advantage he provides is insane, and this deck is perfectly primed to take advantage of it with vial.
There's a surprising amount of times where I go balls to the walls and have two Dark Confidants out, and even when I flipped two 3 CMC creatures (so worst-case scenario) on one turn and dropped down to 4 life against bant company I was able to play the Mirran Crusader, keep up a Path to Exile I drew after the Confidants and keep the Flickerwisp I drew on "vial mana" to flicker the angel token, kill geist and swing on the backcrack for the win. Another instance is where I Scullered (with Thalia out) a Jeskai opponent taking his bolt, and vialed in a Dark Confidant, which he immediately pathed, and on the following turn I played another Confidant, and he was dead in the water. In other games, I just flipped through lands/vials/paths and was able to churn through my deck at no cost. It's always a win-win scenario with Confidant.
I really like the card and can't recommend it enough to BW players.
1) play plains - aether vial. Or Muta vault aether vial. Turn two vial Kytheon in. You will be down two damage but will get to flip him at the same time.
2) Either play leonin arbiter turn 2, thalia turn two, or ghost quarter their bounce land when they play it on turn to with amulet out and hope they don't have a second one.
3) if your opponent has a fetch land in play and no creatures don't bother playing arbiter. They are just going to fetch in response then bolt him or something on your turn. Better to hold off and use the vial.
4) It depends on what your opponent has done. If they have more spells than creatures and have already used 1-2 fetch lands play Thalia. If you expect them to be playing a fetch land on their 2nd or 3rd turn then play arbiter. Really depends on the game.
What does your build look like with Dark Confidant? I am really interested in a build with Sculler and Confidant. I was thinking about something like this to go full on control:
2 Aven Mindcensor
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Vryn Wingmare
4 Flickerwisp
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Orzhov Pontiff
4 Dark Confidant
2 Spellskite
4 Aether Vial
5 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Godless Shrine
3 Isolated Chapel
1 Shambling Vent
1 Eiganjo Castle
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Tectonic Edge
1 Vault of the Arcangel
2 Rest in Peace
1 Celestial Purge
2 Disenchant
1 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Stony Silence
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Wasteland Strangler
Modern:
BRBightning RackBR
RGoblinsR
WBDeath and TaxesWB
Legacy:
BPoxB
I'm going to be on WB dnt. I dint have a soldified list and would really like suggestions on either a list or potential cardz/sb cards.
Modern
TasitwinURB
UWRb ControlUWRB
Death and TaxesWW
Legacy
Death and TaxesWW
My current decklist:
4 Flickerwisp
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Dark Confidant
2 Blade Splicer
2 Wasteland Strangler
2 Kytheon, Hero of Akros
2 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Vryn Wingmare
1 Stonecloaker
Spells (8)
4 Path to Exile
4 Æther Vial
4 Godless Shrine
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Plains
3 Swamp
2 Isolated Chapel
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Caves of Koilos
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Mutavault
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Dismember
1 Mark of Asylum
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Sin Collector
1 Random Thing I forget
I'm probably cutting into the Blade Splicer slots for Brimaz or something similar/jank. I'm also considering swapping out Wingmare for the Mindcensor in the side.
A note of importance; I personally found that 3x Dark Confidant is probably the best number for this deck. Every other two drop is more important to lay down first, and Confidant is more or less there to take advantage of the disruption you place on the board. I found with 4x I sometimes had hands that were very low in disruption. Though this could be just my experience with Confidant, you're welcome to try the 4x.
I also am extremely happy with 2x Strangler + 1x Cloaker in the mainboard. The synergy between them and Sculler is fantastic, and it's like you're taking the Flickerwisp shenanigans (half the reason I play this deck) and go into overdrive.
I do have one question for you though. Is there any reason you're running Blade Splicer over a differently aggressive 3-drop-slot creature (like Brimaz, Lingering Souls, or Pack Rat)?
To be fair, this is D&T, and Blade Splicer is awesome. But you only have 4 flicker effects (5 if you count Stonecloaker). How often do you find yourself targeting your Blade Splicer as opposed to something else?
I realize that it does have other benefits though. Splicer makes that Mutavault better, and it makes it easier to flip Kytheon.
Again, that's a great looking list. It really makes me want to pick up WB D&T.
WUDeath&TaxesWG
Legacy
UBRGDredgeUBRG
UHigh TideU
URGLandsURG
WR Card Choice List
WUR American D&T
WUB Esper D&T
The Reserved List
Heat Maps
F3n1x and I are playing at the tourney tomorrow (Sat.) representing Wx D&T! Will post finalized decklist and MU's soon...
Mono W (micro U)
Honestly, I forgot how many utility lands mono W can fit. Wow. It's nice. When I was playing this list, it was the first time I actually felt like I wanted serra avenger. If I remember correctly I got 2-3 (maybe it was 3-2) and earlier, 1-4. I really did like the two spellskites main. I think if they can be fit, in a meta this removal heavy ,it's pretty good. Also it helps some strange matches like boggles. The second time was better after some tuning. Maybe I should try to fit MD avenger. But not at the cost of resto. Resto and mindcensor are still good as ever as far as I'm concerned.
Actual WU (not tempo. more midrange)
This list tries to abuse anafenza fully by using finks and glen elendra archmage. I thought maybe because I had enough dispruption a list like this could maybe support mangara. I never get to use him and I often sided him out. The list performed pretty well though. It seems as good as many of the WB lists I've played. Another 3-2 I think.
WB (strangler list)
I like it. I got to live the dream and use flickerwisp plus strangler to kill a land and a creature. Wowza. But, the timing for that is a little weird, because I wanted to cut him off a land during his turn and I only had 1 vial on 3. But I still like it. I also get to use tidehollow sculer with it. It's nice. I was running millitant, but I felt like a list like this really wants familiar, but I'm not sure because of strangler. I know you all like millitant, but I'm still not sold. I feel like maybe my old list with confidant might be better, but the spot removal definitely was nice (against everything but tron). Yet again, 3-2.
WG ('ol bessy- the tried and true)
The list always does really well. The first time I played it I got 4-1 because I made a dumb mistake and it cost me the game. Still feels good though. I'm in the process of playing another league with it right now and I'm pretty sure I'm going to get 4-1 this time again. For those of you who don't know, this is the Coco list. And man. That extra bit of instant speed is really nice. I've had it fail a few times, but I really think a card like this helps bring you back into the game if you're behind or win if you're equal. It's so good.
It pains me to say it, buuut...maybe finks is slightly more appropriate right now. In general that is. Of course in the WU list with anafenza, there's no decision. In my GW, the ability to coco splicer flicker is too good. In black, I don't want to stretch the mana, but I think I wanted the life. In W I had max flickering and so could really turn up the power with splicer, but there were times I really wanted lifegain. But maybe I'm just saying finks right now because the leagues have been infected with burn style decks.
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
Simply because I haven't tested anything else haha. I guess if I was to give a legitimate reason it's that Blade Splicer isn't color dense, and sometimes double white can be a problem (God how I wish we had B/W fastlands). I'm thinking about cutting Mutavault and going for a Fetid Heath to help in that regard, but sometimes that vault really pushes the agro plan well.
Once I find a Brimaz it'll definitely go in for a spin, it seems really solid, surviving both bolt and KCommand, and is probably better in flipping Kytheon as I rarely want to attack with the Splicer itself. It also plays really well with Shizo/Eiganjo which is always great to have that redundancy.
I don't think the meta (at least the one I'm in) is grindy enough for Pack Rat, but I might have to test it again. Getting those turn 3 vial in + activate Pack rat turns is to die for.
As for Lingering Souls, I haven't considered it, but just imagining those Thalia + Lingering Souls hands... Then again those Pontiff + Souls hands...
I'm still on the fence on its sideboard potential, especially as I continue to add cards to my board that increase the number of cards being exiled. I think, for Lingering Taxes, we're primarily playing the card as a 3/2 Devoid creature with an occasional upside in our sideboard...if we're playing it at all. I really like the card, but I haven't decided it I prefer it or Kataki in that slot. God help me, I'm even considering trying out O-Ring again after deathandcatmix's reports back on playing it out of the board, though I'm not sure that's good enough without Restoration Angel to maximize the flicker effects. The frustrating reality of this possible board choice is that even it makes Strangler potentially more effective.
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3 Caves of Koilos
3 Eldrazi Temple
2 Fetid Heath
3 Godless Shrine
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Plains
3 Shambling Vent
2 Tectonic Edge
Artifacts (4):
4 Æther Vial
4 Path to Exile
Creatures (29):
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
4 Serra Avenger
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Wasteland Strangler
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Dismember
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Rest in Peace
3 Stony Silence
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Flooded Strand
6 Island
3 Polluted Delta
3 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
Creatures (16):
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stormchaser Mage
2 Gut Shot
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mutagenic Growth
3 Spell Pierce
3 Twisted Image
3 Vapor Snag
Sorceries (8):
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Blood Moon
2 Dispel
1 Forked Bolt
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Repeal
2 Roast
1 Spell Snare
2 Spellskite
1 Vapor Snag
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Copperline Gorge
5 Mountain
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
4 Wooded Foothills
Creatures (14):
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Atarka's Command
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
3 Searing Blaze
Sorceries (8):
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
2 Deflecting Palm
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Path to Exile
2 Rending Volley
3 Skullcrack
19 Forest
3 Treetop Village
Creatures (24):
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Dryad Militant
2 Dungrove Elder
4 Experiment One
4 Leatherback Baloth
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Rancor
Instants (10):
3 Aspect of Hydra
4 Vines of Vastwood
3 Dismember
2 Choke
2 Gut Shot
2 Deglamer
2 Feed the Clan
2 Oxidize
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Skylasher
1 Unravel the Æther
Lol, for some reason when I quoted F3n1x it labeled his deck as mine. I'm actually playing the Mono W version I posted a few pages back with a few changes to the sideboard. I know he made changes (maybe land base) that is not reflected in his post too so I'll update after today with final lists.