Wouldn't it be nice if we had a place where we could sum up the updated decklists discussed here on this thread?
My suggestion would be:
Monowhite D&T
GW
BW
Lingering Taxes
UW
RW
I find it hard to go over all the pages on this primer looking for decklists and I always want to try new lists, new cards and see what u guys are up to.
Any time a permanent changes zones, it is considered a completely new object, with no memory of what it used to be.
As a result, when a Restoration Angel flickers an Arbiter, the opponent must pay 2 a second time, or he or she will be unable to search.
Take the following situation:
An Arbiter is on the battlefield.
You opponent can pay 2 whenever he or she has priority, to satisfy the criterion for the Arbiter. That payment is a special action; it doesn't use the stack, and you can't respond to it.
If your opponent cracks a fetchland, he or she must pay the tax by the time that the search resolves.
If your opponent passes priority to you without paying the cost, don't bother flickering your arbiter, because it's too late for your opponent to search his or her library (if you don't put anything new on the stack). Call a judge. Your opponent can't search.
If you opponent holds priority and pays the cost, the fetchland ability is still on the stack. When your opponent passes priority to you, before the search has happened, you can play Restoration Angel, flicker the Arbiter, and the Arbiter will become a brand new object. If your opponent doesn't pay the (now second) cost before the search ability resolves, he or she won't be able to search.
In essence, it's mean, hilarious, and one of the better reasons to play Cloudshift.
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
But what opponent does that? Crack fetch, hold priority and then pay for search? I don't think I've ever had an opponent do it that way. They always pay 2 for search and then crack their fetch.
But what opponent does that? Crack fetch, hold priority and then pay for search? I don't think I've ever had an opponent do it that way. They always pay 2 for search and then crack their fetch.
That's fine. The situation is the same. Just flicker the Arbiter in response to the fetchland activation.
Sometimes I take a game action and hold priority. Especially with Vial. It keeps my opponents on edge. You can also activate Vial at the end of turn just because you want to. It's a "may" ability, and it can result in your opponent misplaying.
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
@Chaam It wouldnt really make a difference. As when the crack the fetch we can still resto angel targeting arbiter, causing them to have to pay to search again.
But the line you said still crushes combo even if you take out the vryn wingamare. It's win more at that point.
And they do have to pay again because it's a new entity. It left and reentered the battlefield so "the game" doesn't see it as the same card. and it stacks.
In this list it's not impossible to cast Wilt-leaf, but we generally aren't casting it unless we win with it. Vial normally goes up to 3. When you need a big hit you just tick up to 4 on upkeep and vial in when ready. The deck really benefits from having an anthem that it can cast, vial in, cheat in off some decks. Turning your small beaters a little bigger certainly helps. It's very good against the junk/jund decks running around sitting in our hand because it duds liliana, can't choose discard mode on kolaghans command and passes a lot of their removal (decays and bolts). Liliana has been really hard for this deck to beat and this certainly helps. Since i've added those and took out resto my winrate has gone up significantly. Definitely recommend trying some out main-board. Especially if your land count is higher. It gets nutty with Dryad Militant and Kitchen finks if you are playing those.
In this list it's not impossible to cast Wilt-leaf, but we generally aren't casting it unless we win with it. Vial normally goes up to 3. When you need a big hit you just tick up to 4 on upkeep and vial in when ready. The deck really benefits from having an anthem that it can cast, vial in, cheat in off some decks. Turning your small beaters a little bigger certainly helps. It's very good against the junk/jund decks running around sitting in our hand because it duds liliana, can't choose discard mode on kolaghans command and passes a lot of their removal (decays and bolts). Liliana has been really hard for this deck to beat and this certainly helps. Since i've added those and took out resto my winrate has gone up significantly. Definitely recommend trying some out main-board. Especially if your land count is higher. It gets nutty with Dryad Militant and Kitchen finks if you are playing those.
I'm sure it's a good card in your deck, but statistically, you can't consistently play that card.
I can't be certain until someone checks my math, but my numbers suggest to me that with your 20-land list (13 white sources, 7 colorless sources), you have a 13% chance of being able to cast that on turn 4, and you don't finally hit 25% range until turn 8. That number would go up with proper mulligan decisions, but my numbers are suggesting to me that you're either playing that off a Vial, putting it into play off of a discard spell, or you're not putting it in play.
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
How about you attack my argument instead of me? Telling me i don't know what I'm doing because you don't agree with my choices isn't helping discussion. I've had what I feel success with the deck. No I haven't taken down GPs or Pro-tours, but neither have most people with this deck. This works for me, I'm sharing with other people. This is a place for discussion. If you want to tell me i'm wrong then do it. Why are my choices wrong? Why is my land base shaky? I can take criticism, but at least give reason and don't slander me. I'll shake off your post and ignore it until you can at least give a reason for any of the things you said because 90% of what you said doesn't help discussion. I'll go over the one point of discussion you actually did.
Some of our creatures aren't great, sure. But you do need a way to close out games. You need to run some amount of beaters. 2/1 flyers for 3 and 2/2s for 2 are not that. The taxers by you time and get some damage in, the beaters close out game on that bought time. Very rarely does this deck just lock your opponent out of the game. You win on bought time while they fumble around.
Hey MadbadMikeomak,
I'd like to apologize. I know sometimes I can be off putting and come as as especially harsh. I was worried I might have. I'm sorry. I had no intentions of personally attacking you. I mean only to do what's good for this forum and I can see how I overstepped my bounds in my response to you. I really should have waited for a list before I said anything as it is really hard to judge what's going on without one.
I was trying to convey that it's absolutely fine for me to disagree with you and that this is a place for discussion. You're absolutely right. While I did not provide an in depth discussion of why most of us believe 20 lands to be way too few (which Charons has now addressed--thanks bud! I would like to further explain though that many of our lands die. cards like mutavault) are killed while GQ, Tec, and horizon canopy are meant to be sacced. If we ran none of these I could see 20 lands being more correct, but that's a whole different deck.), I did think that others had adequately replied to most of your other points minus those I already addressed (the nature of D&T creatures). In regards to that point; our creatures do finish games. A flickerwisp most certainly can chip away at someone's life total rather quickly. 3 power and evasion is actually pretty good especially when we're slowing them down like we do. My problem is not with including cards like Brimaz, Ging of Orestos as a 1 of. It's with cutting cards that make our deck more reliable such as aven mindcensor or the more recent inclusion of Vryn Wingmare (which I'm not even sold on in all lists. In particular there are a of couple splashes where I think having a few noncreature spells is just as viable a route as more direct taxing). Perhaps with your list that includes militant and has a relatively lower curve you have a better time against decks like Grixis, but for many of us, that was a hard MU before wingmare which helps a lot. In fact, even decks where it's good, it's by no means an autowin. Against twin for instance, I have a great MU most of the time, but it's a hard deck to pilot and if my opponent is as good as I am or better, than it's not as easy as you make it sound. Thalia doesn't just slam down on the table screaming "I WIN!"... I believe D&T to be a deck that's all about incremental pushes. We happen to have many straws to break the camels back. Wingmare and mindcensor just happen to be cards that can work as substitute straws. If you take out too many of those "straws," then all of a sudden you're just trying to have a bigger camel. That's fine, but it's a different deck and a different ideology on how to play.
In this list it's not impossible to cast Wilt-leaf, but we generally aren't casting it unless we win with it. Vial normally goes up to 3. When you need a big hit you just tick up to 4 on upkeep and vial in when ready. The deck really benefits from having an anthem that it can cast, vial in, cheat in off some decks. Turning your small beaters a little bigger certainly helps. It's very good against the junk/jund decks running around sitting in our hand because it duds liliana, can't choose discard mode on kolaghans command and passes a lot of their removal (decays and bolts). Liliana has been really hard for this deck to beat and this certainly helps. Since i've added those and took out resto my winrate has gone up significantly. Definitely recommend trying some out main-board. Especially if your land count is higher. It gets nutty with Dryad Militant and Kitchen finks if you are playing those.
I'm sure it's a good card in your deck, but statistically, you can't consistently play that card.
I can't be certain until someone checks my math, but my numbers suggest to me that with your 20-land list (13 white sources, 7 colorless sources), you have a 13% chance of being able to cast that on turn 4, and you don't finally hit 25% range until turn 8. That number would go up with proper mulligan decisions, but my numbers are suggesting to me that you're either playing that off a Vial, putting it into play off of a discard spell, or you're not putting it in play.
Very very rarely am i ever casting this. I'ts just a good card against all the decks that are rough for us. Usually a Liliana or Kolaghan's command is putting this into play. Even if they know it's there they still can't +1 Liliana. Discard is very good against the vial Deck. This just shores up the GBx matchups. I understand it's meta call type of card, but even just filling up the board until late game then vialing this guy in to swing for large numbers can be back breaking or game ending just from the amount you get off the anthem. Worst comes to worst we side it out.
I'd like to apologize. I know sometimes I can be off putting and come as as especially harsh. I was worried I might have. I'm sorry. I had no intentions of personally attacking you. I mean only to do what's good for this forum and I can see how I overstepped my bounds in my response to you. I really should have waited for a list before I said anything as it is really hard to judge what's going on without one.
I was trying to convey that it's absolutely fine for me to disagree with you and that this is a place for discussion. You're absolutely right. While I did not provide an in depth discussion of why most of us believe 20 lands to be way too few (which Charons has now addressed--thanks bud! I would like to further explain though that many of our lands die. cards like mutavault) are killed while GQ, Tec, and horizon canopy are meant to be sacced. If we ran none of these I could see 20 lands being more correct, but that's a whole different deck.), I did think that others had adequately replied to most of your other points minus those I already addressed (the nature of D&T creatures). In regards to that point; our creatures do finish games. A flickerwisp most certainly can chip away at someone's life total rather quickly. 3 power and evasion is actually pretty good especially when we're slowing them down like we do. My problem is not with including cards like Brimaz, Ging of Orestos as a 1 of. It's with cutting cards that make our deck more reliable such as aven mindcensor or the more recent inclusion of Vryn Wingmare (which I'm not even sold on in all lists. In particular there are a of couple splashes where I think having a few noncreature spells is just as viable a route as more direct taxing). Perhaps with your list that includes militant and has a relatively lower curve you have a better time against decks like Grixis, but for many of us, that was a hard MU before wingmare which helps a lot. In fact, even decks where it's good, it's by no means an autowin. Against twin for instance, I have a great MU most of the time, but it's a hard deck to pilot and if my opponent is as good as I am or better, than it's not as easy as you make it sound. Thalia doesn't just slam down on the table screaming "I WIN!"... I believe D&T to be a deck that's all about incremental pushes. We happen to have many straws to break the camels back. Wingmare and mindcensor just happen to be cards that can work as substitute straws. If you take out too many of those "straws," then all of a sudden you're just trying to have a bigger camel. That's fine, but it's a different deck and a different ideology on how to play.
Hope that helps to clear things up a bit!
Meaning only to help,
SpiderSpace
No hard feelings. I realized earlier we are playing something simliar but to different when it came to land counts. I forget a lot of people are increasing their 3cmc count and i'm going against the tide and lowering mine. It's understandable why people would feel the way you did. Forgive if I came off in any negative way also.
Care to post a decklist so I can see what you got going?
MadbadMikeomak,
You can't start complaining when others call your card choices "wrong", when you are the one who first came in here as a new poster and boldly stated that wingmare was "not good enough for modern".
That kind of arrogance sets people off. Had you been a little more humble and posted a list to start the discussion then people may not have become so defensive. Ironically, you are then the one that became defensive when numerous people started to critique you.
All that being said. I think you have a really solid list for the most part. I also play blade spIicer x4. I understand why you play stonecloaker now over resto angel since you are trying to lower your curve but maintain that “flicker” type effect.
I have to agree with others here about your land count. 20 lands is not enough. I understand you have had success, but you are pushing your luck. I play MTGO with its truly randomized shuffler. I have a Merfolk deck as well with 20 lands and 4 vials. Merfolk has a lower curve and doesn’t sac 6+ of its lands and every once in a while I get mana screwed with that deck, I can’t imagine trying to do that with D&T. 20 lands is just not enough for D&T. I personally play 24 lands with the full 4 mutavaults. It helps avoid screw, but getting flooded is not a problem since mutavaults make excellent threats especially with splicer.
I agree that this deck would really like some kind of anthem. That is the reason why everyone was so excited initially about Anafenza. Wilt-leaf is definitely a powerful card, but I can’t imagine playing it in D&T with only 20 lands. I play 24 lands which I have found just the right amount to consistently cast my resto angels. Also, I think wilt-leaf liege is much better in the WG versions to maximize the pump with cards like pridemage and finks.
I can see why you don’t like wingmare or mindcensor for YOUR style of deck since you are trying to be more aggressive. I tried that method but I personally found it too inconsistent. It works well with GW versions, especially a full on GW hatebears deck, but I don’t think it is that great for monowhite D&T. My taxes were too inconsistent and monowhite creatures are not powerful enough without the tax part. I prefer a more consistent tax package with wingmare and mindcensor to augment arbiter and Thalia. I then go over the top with resto angel and archangel of tithes.
By the way, I would like to encourage anyone that has not tried archangel of tithes to give her a go as a 1-2 of. She is definitely one of those cards that plays so much better than you would think. She is one of the few cards we can play that will actually allow you to win out of nowhere from a bad position.
My Modern decks: Death and Taxes, Hatebears, Well Oiled Machine, Merfolk, Nyx Wave, Soul Sisters, Stompy, Matyr Proc, Naya Zoo, Robots (I refuse to call it affinity!), Bogles, Kiki Chord
How is Archangel of Tithes working out for people? I'm considering grabbing a few in paper but I'm not thrilled at $10 each and they've slowly been trending down.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern GU Infect | x Affinity | RWG Naya Burn | W Death and Taxes | U Merfolk | BURG BTL Scapeshift | WUUW Titan | R Goblins | BURGW Suicide Zoo
No hard feelings. I realized earlier we are playing something simliar but to different when it came to land counts. I forget a lot of people are increasing their 3cmc count and i'm going against the tide and lowering mine. It's understandable why people would feel the way you did. Forgive if I came off in any negative way also.
Care to post a decklist so I can see what you got going?
I'm glad to hear that. Likewise.
People tend to curve out at 3 with vial because it's the highest we can get it consistently and fast enough to be relevant while still being really powerful (hello infinite possibilities of instant speed flickerwisp). That's not to say it's incorrect to keep it at a lower amount or raise it up to 4 if you situationally have to, but generally, we aim for 3.
I tend to only post decklists these days after I've done extensive testing and have seen some good results. I haven't gotten in that much time lately to do testing and as a result don't have an up to date list that is significantly different from versions already on here. My most recent successful list was a version of WG that runs collected company as a 2 of, but that was pre wingmare. I haven't done much WG testing since wingmare. Mostly I've been messing around with a WB and a WU version. Before that I was testing the new cards in Mono W. As a vet of this deck I've got a lot of versions, some more successful than others. What kind of list are you interested in? Just the one I most recently played?
Matchups (as best I can remember) were Stompy (which crushed me) some kind of French Control/AmeriTwin (with Kiki/Resto) variant (Draw? Loss?), Bogle (Draw/Loss...I can't remember), and Blue-White Fog (Win).
I'd love to give details, but it was four days ago and the beginning of me coming down with something, so details are hazy.
What I do remember is frequently getting burned on colored mana availability, the ultimate lack of usefulness of Dark Confidant, and constantly going to my board to bring in Vryn Wingmare as it was fantastic in almost every matchup. Liliana, Heretical Healer also shined, especially in conjunction with Viscera Seer. I also drew into the combo a few times, not that I've ever counted on that to win (opponents won't let any pieces stick long enough...it only works if it all hits the table at the same time).
I got some play time in with this on Saturday. It still needs quite a bit of tuning, but it's pretty brutally oppressive with the right opening hand. I also need to get a lot of practice so I can manage hands that aren't quite so explosive out the gate.
I understand that this isn't going to look great (much like the prior version) to a lot of D&T players as this plays very heavy on the taxes/mana denial and prison strategies and is a bit beater-lite. That said, looking forward to learning the lines and tuning this to be more effective. It'd be nice to add Judge's Familiar if I can find the room.
Edit: Second list was incorrect, so fixed the errors.
“Modern has provided us a non-rotating format that is far more accessible than Legacy or Vintage, but still retains many of the qualities that people enjoy in those formats—such as a more stable metagame, the ability to play and tweak the same deck week after week, and simply a much more powerful card pool than Standard.”
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
Did anyone actually watch Lauren's match from this past weekend? If not, you absolutely should go watch it (find it on mtgcoverage.com). The match is pretty good, but I think she GROSSLY misplays the last game and it cost her the match. A lot of it comes from not being experienced with the deck, but still its really great to see the deck get coverage, and do well in the match. despite some misplays ( i think they are) i think she definitely did well, and hopefully brings some fresh people to this thread! Let me know what you all think.
Game 1: He goes for it naturally turn 4 and wins
Game 2: Attrition back and forth until I jam Worship. I slowly beat in the air.
Game 3: I have a decent amount of disruption and end up protecting the board with burrenton forge-tenders.
Round 2 vs Grixis Twin (2-0)
Game 1: I have tec edges to disrupt has mana and he goes for a k command play on my vial and leonin arbiter. I vial a pontiff protecting him and then waste his lands and he is unable to rebuild in time.
Game 2: BFT into Thalia into Leonin arbiter. I also have land disruption again to keep him from developing at all.
Round 3 vs..... you guessed it! Temur Twin (2-0)
Game 1: My opponent used his early turns deploying 2 2/3 goyfs. I use this time to launch both sides of a lingering and vial a serra avenger. I win the damage race and have path to protect from the combo.
Game 2: He has burn and deceivers forever and then I play a Worship. He fumbles around for a bit and then I start vialing threats (Brimaz, Mirran, and have mutavault in my mana base) and I eventually get through and win.
Round 4 vs Merfolk (2-1)(We intentional drew but played the match for info).
Game 1: I have vial and he doesn't. I end up with double mirran crusader keeping his team back until I win in the air with avenger and aven mindcensor.
Game 2: I keep a one land hand with 2 paths, 1 sunlance, and 1 engineered explosives. He spreading seas me and I never draw a second land. May have been sketch to keep in the draw but it seemed worth trying.
Game 3: I have the world. Wrath, worship, engineered, and tec edge, ghost quarter. He has no vial and keeps dropping creatures into play. I start with wrath, then cast a worship and final set a EE on 2. He has no cards to interact anymore and loses to serra avenger and brimaz beats.
Playing three rounds of Twin just like in DC... yay! I feel more comfortable about the match up and can see when to make certain play now. I'd recommend mono white run a 2 of cavern if you are concerned about this matchup. Forcing down thalia, brimaz, spellskite and/or arbiters would make this extremely easy. Hope the recap helps!
Glad I got to skip that whole Wingmare argument :D.
@Anthony: Lucky duck. I feel like Twin and Grixis Twin are my best matchups right now, I wish I could run into that much.
@Chalupacabra: I like that you're back to testing this style of list, it's one I've wanted more data on. I did test out Confidant in a low CMC list for a while, though not with the combo. I actually _really_ didn't like him. Just too much variance, I started looking for card advantage in other areas (my eternal quest, what I consider the only real weakness of most versions of this deck). Looking forward to hearing how your updated list goes.
Matchups (as best I can remember) were Stompy (which crushed me) some kind of French Control/AmeriTwin (with Kiki/Resto) variant (Draw? Loss?), Bogle (Draw/Loss...I can't remember), and Blue-White Fog (Win).
I'd love to give details, but it was four days ago and the beginning of me coming down with something, so details are hazy.
What I do remember is frequently getting burned on colored mana availability, the ultimate lack of usefulness of Dark Confidant, and constantly going to my board to bring in Vryn Wingmare as it was fantastic in almost every matchup. Liliana, Heretical Healer also shined, especially in conjunction with Viscera Seer. I also drew into the combo a few times, not that I've ever counted on that to win (opponents won't let any pieces stick long enough...it only works if it all hits the table at the same time).
I got some play time in with this on Saturday. It still needs quite a bit of tuning, but it's pretty brutally oppressive with the right opening hand. I also need to get a lot of practice so I can manage hands that aren't quite so explosive out the gate.
I understand that this isn't going to look great (much like the prior version) to a lot of D&T players as this plays very heavy on the taxes/mana denial and prison strategies and is a bit beater-lite. That said, looking forward to learning the lines and tuning this to be more effective. It'd be nice to add Judge's Familiar if I can find the room.
Edit: Second list was incorrect, so fixed the errors.
I've tested black white a little bit. I liked it other than the mana base was terrible. The one thing i'd do is cut the liliana's. It's a good card but this isn't the deck for it. What I've found to be insane is [[Sin Collector]] as a 1 of. This paired with Tidehollows allows you to eat your opponents hand, eat their removal, and you always know what they have. I'd also make room for some Restos because its zany with tidehallow. On their draw step you can resto and get a new card.
BFT is an amazing card. It is on the verge of being a main deck 1 drop (J/K).
Here is what she helps against:
-Burn deck
-Bolts killing crusader in Jund/Grixis
-Protect Mindcensor against electrolyze in Scapeshift.
-Pyrcolasm/Firespout/etc.
-whipflare from affinity sb.
-Stops Borogymeos* in Grishoalbrand (loved it once I figured this out lol).
-raging ravines in Jund
-block and sac vs Wurmcoil in Tron which can let you win the game once you close their life gain opportunity.
I have BFT and Mark of Asylum fighting for the same SB slot. Are there any situations where Mark is strictly better than BFT? I can only think vs Izzet staticaster, which got me crushed yesterday.
My suggestion would be:
Monowhite D&T
GW
BW
Lingering Taxes
UW
RW
I find it hard to go over all the pages on this primer looking for decklists and I always want to try new lists, new cards and see what u guys are up to.
Any time a permanent changes zones, it is considered a completely new object, with no memory of what it used to be.
As a result, when a Restoration Angel flickers an Arbiter, the opponent must pay 2 a second time, or he or she will be unable to search.
Take the following situation:
An Arbiter is on the battlefield.
You opponent can pay 2 whenever he or she has priority, to satisfy the criterion for the Arbiter. That payment is a special action; it doesn't use the stack, and you can't respond to it.
If your opponent cracks a fetchland, he or she must pay the tax by the time that the search resolves.
If your opponent passes priority to you without paying the cost, don't bother flickering your arbiter, because it's too late for your opponent to search his or her library (if you don't put anything new on the stack). Call a judge. Your opponent can't search.
If you opponent holds priority and pays the cost, the fetchland ability is still on the stack. When your opponent passes priority to you, before the search has happened, you can play Restoration Angel, flicker the Arbiter, and the Arbiter will become a brand new object. If your opponent doesn't pay the (now second) cost before the search ability resolves, he or she won't be able to search.
In essence, it's mean, hilarious, and one of the better reasons to play Cloudshift.
WUDeath&TaxesWG
Legacy
UBRGDredgeUBRG
UHigh TideU
URGLandsURG
WR Card Choice List
WUR American D&T
WUB Esper D&T
The Reserved List
Heat Maps
Sometimes I take a game action and hold priority. Especially with Vial. It keeps my opponents on edge. You can also activate Vial at the end of turn just because you want to. It's a "may" ability, and it can result in your opponent misplaying.
WUDeath&TaxesWG
Legacy
UBRGDredgeUBRG
UHigh TideU
URGLandsURG
WR Card Choice List
WUR American D&T
WUB Esper D&T
The Reserved List
Heat Maps
And they do have to pay again because it's a new entity. It left and reentered the battlefield so "the game" doesn't see it as the same card. and it stacks.
I'm sure it's a good card in your deck, but statistically, you can't consistently play that card.
I can't be certain until someone checks my math, but my numbers suggest to me that with your 20-land list (13 white sources, 7 colorless sources), you have a 13% chance of being able to cast that on turn 4, and you don't finally hit 25% range until turn 8. That number would go up with proper mulligan decisions, but my numbers are suggesting to me that you're either playing that off a Vial, putting it into play off of a discard spell, or you're not putting it in play.
WUDeath&TaxesWG
Legacy
UBRGDredgeUBRG
UHigh TideU
URGLandsURG
WR Card Choice List
WUR American D&T
WUB Esper D&T
The Reserved List
Heat Maps
Hey MadbadMikeomak,
I'd like to apologize. I know sometimes I can be off putting and come as as especially harsh. I was worried I might have. I'm sorry. I had no intentions of personally attacking you. I mean only to do what's good for this forum and I can see how I overstepped my bounds in my response to you. I really should have waited for a list before I said anything as it is really hard to judge what's going on without one.
I was trying to convey that it's absolutely fine for me to disagree with you and that this is a place for discussion. You're absolutely right. While I did not provide an in depth discussion of why most of us believe 20 lands to be way too few (which Charons has now addressed--thanks bud! I would like to further explain though that many of our lands die. cards like mutavault) are killed while GQ, Tec, and horizon canopy are meant to be sacced. If we ran none of these I could see 20 lands being more correct, but that's a whole different deck.), I did think that others had adequately replied to most of your other points minus those I already addressed (the nature of D&T creatures). In regards to that point; our creatures do finish games. A flickerwisp most certainly can chip away at someone's life total rather quickly. 3 power and evasion is actually pretty good especially when we're slowing them down like we do. My problem is not with including cards like Brimaz, Ging of Orestos as a 1 of. It's with cutting cards that make our deck more reliable such as aven mindcensor or the more recent inclusion of Vryn Wingmare (which I'm not even sold on in all lists. In particular there are a of couple splashes where I think having a few noncreature spells is just as viable a route as more direct taxing). Perhaps with your list that includes militant and has a relatively lower curve you have a better time against decks like Grixis, but for many of us, that was a hard MU before wingmare which helps a lot. In fact, even decks where it's good, it's by no means an autowin. Against twin for instance, I have a great MU most of the time, but it's a hard deck to pilot and if my opponent is as good as I am or better, than it's not as easy as you make it sound. Thalia doesn't just slam down on the table screaming "I WIN!"... I believe D&T to be a deck that's all about incremental pushes. We happen to have many straws to break the camels back. Wingmare and mindcensor just happen to be cards that can work as substitute straws. If you take out too many of those "straws," then all of a sudden you're just trying to have a bigger camel. That's fine, but it's a different deck and a different ideology on how to play.
Hope that helps to clear things up a bit!
Meaning only to help,
SpiderSpace
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
Very very rarely am i ever casting this. I'ts just a good card against all the decks that are rough for us. Usually a Liliana or Kolaghan's command is putting this into play. Even if they know it's there they still can't +1 Liliana. Discard is very good against the vial Deck. This just shores up the GBx matchups. I understand it's meta call type of card, but even just filling up the board until late game then vialing this guy in to swing for large numbers can be back breaking or game ending just from the amount you get off the anthem. Worst comes to worst we side it out.
No hard feelings. I realized earlier we are playing something simliar but to different when it came to land counts. I forget a lot of people are increasing their 3cmc count and i'm going against the tide and lowering mine. It's understandable why people would feel the way you did. Forgive if I came off in any negative way also.
Care to post a decklist so I can see what you got going?
You can't start complaining when others call your card choices "wrong", when you are the one who first came in here as a new poster and boldly stated that wingmare was "not good enough for modern".
That kind of arrogance sets people off. Had you been a little more humble and posted a list to start the discussion then people may not have become so defensive. Ironically, you are then the one that became defensive when numerous people started to critique you.
All that being said. I think you have a really solid list for the most part. I also play blade spIicer x4. I understand why you play stonecloaker now over resto angel since you are trying to lower your curve but maintain that “flicker” type effect.
I have to agree with others here about your land count. 20 lands is not enough. I understand you have had success, but you are pushing your luck. I play MTGO with its truly randomized shuffler. I have a Merfolk deck as well with 20 lands and 4 vials. Merfolk has a lower curve and doesn’t sac 6+ of its lands and every once in a while I get mana screwed with that deck, I can’t imagine trying to do that with D&T. 20 lands is just not enough for D&T. I personally play 24 lands with the full 4 mutavaults. It helps avoid screw, but getting flooded is not a problem since mutavaults make excellent threats especially with splicer.
I agree that this deck would really like some kind of anthem. That is the reason why everyone was so excited initially about Anafenza. Wilt-leaf is definitely a powerful card, but I can’t imagine playing it in D&T with only 20 lands. I play 24 lands which I have found just the right amount to consistently cast my resto angels. Also, I think wilt-leaf liege is much better in the WG versions to maximize the pump with cards like pridemage and finks.
I can see why you don’t like wingmare or mindcensor for YOUR style of deck since you are trying to be more aggressive. I tried that method but I personally found it too inconsistent. It works well with GW versions, especially a full on GW hatebears deck, but I don’t think it is that great for monowhite D&T. My taxes were too inconsistent and monowhite creatures are not powerful enough without the tax part. I prefer a more consistent tax package with wingmare and mindcensor to augment arbiter and Thalia. I then go over the top with resto angel and archangel of tithes.
By the way, I would like to encourage anyone that has not tried archangel of tithes to give her a go as a 1-2 of. She is definitely one of those cards that plays so much better than you would think. She is one of the few cards we can play that will actually allow you to win out of nowhere from a bad position.
EDIT: here is my current list on MTGO
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Leonin Arbiter
1 Spellskite
3 Vryn Wingmare
2 Aven Mindcensor
4 Blade Splicer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4 Restoration Angel
2 Archangel of Tithes
4 Æther Vial
4 Path to Exile
Lands (24)
13 Plains
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Mutavault
1 Eiganjo Castle
3 Auriok Champion
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Celestial Purge
1 Spellskite
2 Stony Silence
1 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Rest in Peace
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
GU Infect | x Affinity | RWG Naya Burn | W Death and Taxes | U Merfolk | BURG BTL Scapeshift | WUUW Titan | R Goblins | BURGW Suicide Zoo
I'm glad to hear that. Likewise.
People tend to curve out at 3 with vial because it's the highest we can get it consistently and fast enough to be relevant while still being really powerful (hello infinite possibilities of instant speed flickerwisp). That's not to say it's incorrect to keep it at a lower amount or raise it up to 4 if you situationally have to, but generally, we aim for 3.
I tend to only post decklists these days after I've done extensive testing and have seen some good results. I haven't gotten in that much time lately to do testing and as a result don't have an up to date list that is significantly different from versions already on here. My most recent successful list was a version of WG that runs collected company as a 2 of, but that was pre wingmare. I haven't done much WG testing since wingmare. Mostly I've been messing around with a WB and a WU version. Before that I was testing the new cards in Mono W. As a vet of this deck I've got a lot of versions, some more successful than others. What kind of list are you interested in? Just the one I most recently played?
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
4 Godless Shrine
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Isolated Chapel
3 Mutavault
4 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Vault of the Archangel
Artifacts (4):
4 Æther Vial
Instants (4):
4 Path to Exile
3 Lingering Souls
Creatures (26):
2 Viscera Seer
2 Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
3 Dark Confidant
4 Leonin Arbiter
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Aven Mindcensor
4 Flickerwisp
3 Kitchen Finks
1 Liliana, Heretical Healer
1 Slaughter Pact
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Auriok Champion
2 Spellskite
2 Stony Silence
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Vryn Wingmare
I'd love to give details, but it was four days ago and the beginning of me coming down with something, so details are hazy.
What I do remember is frequently getting burned on colored mana availability, the ultimate lack of usefulness of Dark Confidant, and constantly going to my board to bring in Vryn Wingmare as it was fantastic in almost every matchup. Liliana, Heretical Healer also shined, especially in conjunction with Viscera Seer. I also drew into the combo a few times, not that I've ever counted on that to win (opponents won't let any pieces stick long enough...it only works if it all hits the table at the same time).
3 Caves of Koilos
4 Godless Shrine
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Isolated Chapel
2 Mutavault
2 Plains
2 Swamp
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Vault of the Archangel
Artifacts (4):
4 Æther Vial
4 Path to Exile
Creatures (29):
3 Viscera Seer
2 Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Aven Mindcensor
4 Flickerwisp
3 Kitchen Finks
2 Liliana, Heretical Healer
3 Vryn Wingmare
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Auriok Champion
1 Mark of Asylum
3 Spellskite
3 Stony Silence
3 Orzhov Pontiff
I understand that this isn't going to look great (much like the prior version) to a lot of D&T players as this plays very heavy on the taxes/mana denial and prison strategies and is a bit beater-lite. That said, looking forward to learning the lines and tuning this to be more effective. It'd be nice to add Judge's Familiar if I can find the room.
Edit: Second list was incorrect, so fixed the errors.
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
How to Use Spoiler Tags
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THE Guide to Aggro, Part 2: SWARM and TOOLBOX
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 3
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 4
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Introduction to Tempo
Controlling Tempo
Elements of Tempo
Roadblocks to Tempo
How Not To Build A Deck - Tempo
Learn How To Sideboard, Dammit!
Mulligan's Island
The Art of the Mulligan
The Art of the Mulligan: Eight Case Studies
Fundamentals: The Mulligan
Some Mulligan Exercises
A Mulligan Is Worth Three Cards
The Mulligan Debate
Common Sense: The Art of the Mulligan
Who's The Beatdown?
3 Caves of Koilos
3 Eldrazi Temple
2 Fetid Heath
3 Godless Shrine
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Plains
3 Shambling Vent
2 Tectonic Edge
Artifacts (4):
4 Æther Vial
4 Path to Exile
Creatures (29):
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
4 Serra Avenger
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Wasteland Strangler
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Dismember
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Rest in Peace
3 Stony Silence
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Flooded Strand
6 Island
3 Polluted Delta
3 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
Creatures (16):
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stormchaser Mage
2 Gut Shot
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mutagenic Growth
3 Spell Pierce
3 Twisted Image
3 Vapor Snag
Sorceries (8):
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Blood Moon
2 Dispel
1 Forked Bolt
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Repeal
2 Roast
1 Spell Snare
2 Spellskite
1 Vapor Snag
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Copperline Gorge
5 Mountain
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
4 Wooded Foothills
Creatures (14):
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Atarka's Command
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
3 Searing Blaze
Sorceries (8):
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
2 Deflecting Palm
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Path to Exile
2 Rending Volley
3 Skullcrack
19 Forest
3 Treetop Village
Creatures (24):
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Dryad Militant
2 Dungrove Elder
4 Experiment One
4 Leatherback Baloth
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Rancor
Instants (10):
3 Aspect of Hydra
4 Vines of Vastwood
3 Dismember
2 Choke
2 Gut Shot
2 Deglamer
2 Feed the Clan
2 Oxidize
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Skylasher
1 Unravel the Æther
I went 4-0 tonight with Lingering Taxes!
Round 1 vs. Temur Twin (2-1)
Game 1: He goes for it naturally turn 4 and wins
Game 2: Attrition back and forth until I jam Worship. I slowly beat in the air.
Game 3: I have a decent amount of disruption and end up protecting the board with burrenton forge-tenders.
Round 2 vs Grixis Twin (2-0)
Game 1: I have tec edges to disrupt has mana and he goes for a k command play on my vial and leonin arbiter. I vial a pontiff protecting him and then waste his lands and he is unable to rebuild in time.
Game 2: BFT into Thalia into Leonin arbiter. I also have land disruption again to keep him from developing at all.
Round 3 vs..... you guessed it! Temur Twin (2-0)
Game 1: My opponent used his early turns deploying 2 2/3 goyfs. I use this time to launch both sides of a lingering and vial a serra avenger. I win the damage race and have path to protect from the combo.
Game 2: He has burn and deceivers forever and then I play a Worship. He fumbles around for a bit and then I start vialing threats (Brimaz, Mirran, and have mutavault in my mana base) and I eventually get through and win.
Round 4 vs Merfolk (2-1)(We intentional drew but played the match for info).
Game 1: I have vial and he doesn't. I end up with double mirran crusader keeping his team back until I win in the air with avenger and aven mindcensor.
Game 2: I keep a one land hand with 2 paths, 1 sunlance, and 1 engineered explosives. He spreading seas me and I never draw a second land. May have been sketch to keep in the draw but it seemed worth trying.
Game 3: I have the world. Wrath, worship, engineered, and tec edge, ghost quarter. He has no vial and keeps dropping creatures into play. I start with wrath, then cast a worship and final set a EE on 2. He has no cards to interact anymore and loses to serra avenger and brimaz beats.
Playing three rounds of Twin just like in DC... yay! I feel more comfortable about the match up and can see when to make certain play now. I'd recommend mono white run a 2 of cavern if you are concerned about this matchup. Forcing down thalia, brimaz, spellskite and/or arbiters would make this extremely easy. Hope the recap helps!
WWModern Death And Taxes (w/ Militia Bugler) (JUL '19)
GWModern Maverick (JUL '19)
WBCatmix on Twitch!
WWCatmix on Youtube
@Anthony: Lucky duck. I feel like Twin and Grixis Twin are my best matchups right now, I wish I could run into that much.
@Chalupacabra: I like that you're back to testing this style of list, it's one I've wanted more data on. I did test out Confidant in a low CMC list for a while, though not with the combo. I actually _really_ didn't like him. Just too much variance, I started looking for card advantage in other areas (my eternal quest, what I consider the only real weakness of most versions of this deck). Looking forward to hearing how your updated list goes.
Death and Taxes Videos
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I've tested black white a little bit. I liked it other than the mana base was terrible. The one thing i'd do is cut the liliana's. It's a good card but this isn't the deck for it. What I've found to be insane is [[Sin Collector]] as a 1 of. This paired with Tidehollows allows you to eat your opponents hand, eat their removal, and you always know what they have. I'd also make room for some Restos because its zany with tidehallow. On their draw step you can resto and get a new card.
I have BFT and Mark of Asylum fighting for the same SB slot. Are there any situations where Mark is strictly better than BFT? I can only think vs Izzet staticaster, which got me crushed yesterday.
WWModern Death And Taxes (w/ Militia Bugler) (JUL '19)
GWModern Maverick (JUL '19)
WBCatmix on Twitch!
WWCatmix on Youtube