So concerning the one drop discussion, how many one drops do you guys play in General in the mono white list?
Currently none. For a very long time I played two judges familiars.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Modern decks: Death and Taxes, Hatebears, Well Oiled Machine, Merfolk, Nyx Wave, Soul Sisters, Stompy, Matyr Proc, Naya Zoo, Robots (I refuse to call it affinity!), Bogles, Kiki Chord
I tried 4 dryads, then 4 familiars, back to 4 dryads and back 4 familiars.
Currently I've cutted 2 Finks to make room for 6 one-drops, a 3-3 dryad/familiar split. I guess people who play this deck sometimes underestimate how valued are those two to tax the opponent and to develop a board and a clock.
I've played one match against my own deck and it's a nightmare.
Kytheon is real good. But as @dreamcaster said, I won't buy it for the current price (US$ 13.00). My guess is that eventually Dryad will prove to be better than him. Dryad has immediate impact (messing with bolts, snaps, goyf, souls) and doesn't require work to pay back.
I think Kytheon would be better/awesome in a token deck.
Second Round
Grixis Control (2-0)
Game 1, Actualy quite hard to decide what to play first, in my opening hand i had, Razorverge Thicket, Leonin Arbiter, Ghost Quarters, Noble Hierach, Loxodon Smiter, AEther vial, Path to Exile. So it was hard as I was on the play and dropping the vial is probably the normal play, however the turn two leonin quarter trick is normaly enough to mean that people cant recover, so i went in with the the trick and was the correct idea, he just played fetch lands so it was the correct play, he had thoughtscour aswell.
i get that mirran crusader can block anglers and tasigurs all day, but do you like having them in against a deck that plays lighting bolts and snapcasters?
i get that mirran crusader can block anglers and tasigurs all day, but do you like having them in against a deck that plays lighting bolts and snapcasters?
Depends. If that deck is Burn or something, no. But if that deck is also running Terminates/Kommand/Murderous Cut/Victim of Night/Go for the Throat with their Snaps, then he's still pretty good. I'll usually still board him out if they have the combo, but if they're just control/delve wins, I'll leave him in. They only have so many Bolt/Snap/Bolt, and they're likely going towards your other guys.
@shuflw it also becomes even more difficult if you have a burrenton forge-tender. This was a line of play that increased my percentages against grixis and jund.
@Jendo87 I wonder if kitchen finks is still worth keeping in against grixis however. Maybe flickerwisp is a slightly worst card in this matchup and 1-2 can be cut there? Our list are different so our cuts are dramatically different. Just curious why finks was the cut. Guess it doesn't really matter if you 2-0'd the opponent! Again, Congrats!
I'm preparing for the SCG event this weekend in DC with some friends. I'm considering skipping the legacy portion of the event just so I can play Death and Taxes in Modern! Not really sure what will end up happening but if I do, I'll leave a tournament report for the forum!
Since I've started to assemble the W/G version, could someone with experience fill me in on the manabase and perhaps a bit of reasoning behind it? My build would be light green splash for Hierarch, Qasali and Scooze.
@user_369654 - I copied @spiderspace's mana base when I ran g/w and it was very similar to your initial manabase. I don't recall having any mana constraints -other than normally expected with DnT 8 colorless lands.
Forest: it's likely people will want to blood moon you. On the micro splash the forest may not be important but if you rely on green cards out of the sb then maybe you should keep one around.
Canopy: great at 2. The g/w list adds a ton of card value and isn't in as much need of card cycling as mono-white.
Wildwood: I never actually had one in play. I normally don't like tapped lands especially if you need to hit four drops or gavony on time.
Gavony: I only ran one and hardly ever utilized it. But when it showed up, it secured my wins from a second angle. I see a couple of people running two but I don't think it's right.
Well you want a minimum of 13-14 sources to reliably cast Noble Hierarch on turn 1 (or off AEther Vial; Ideally it is 14 sources but you can shave a source to account for AEther Vial). You also only need 13-15 white sources for double white on turn 3 (Ideally it is 19 sources but 4 are from Noble Hierarch and you can probably shave another 1 or 2 due to AEther Vial). If you have double white for turn 2 then you need a ton more white sources (outside of Serra Avenger since that doesn't come down until turn 4 w/o vial anyways).
My list currently runs 14 green and 14 white sources and I have been incredibly happy with my mana base. 11 out of the 22 total lands provide some kind of utility outside of tapping for mana.
I wouldn't run anything other than the full 4 Horizon Canopy in G/W. Hierarch will help you cast spells and this gives you so much more staying power vs decks like Jund and close games. However, in mono white I could see only running 2. The damage is negligible since we don't take that much from our lands anyways (the damage isn't compounded in comparison to a fetch/shock manabase) and we also already have a good burn and affinity matchup (at least my list does).
If I went up to 23 lands it would be a 3rd Tectonic Edge.
I'm going to a PPTQ tomorrow with GW D&T. I logged in to check my DCI number and it's been 11 1/2 years since I last played a constructed tournament! ha! I took a 6 year break from magic, and I've only played limited and in small groups since coming back. I don't have as many test games behind me as I'd like, but I'm definitely a better player now than at the height of my competitive play.
Probably going to play WB DnT at GP Oklahoma City, but a buddy and I are testing out a WR list first. Any suggestions? I read through all the previous WR lists and discussions I could find using that search I posted the other week. Going for a more tempo-y version of the red splash, with the combo. An alternative would be maindeck Alesha, Avalanche Riders, Legions Initiative, Keledon Marauders, and Purphoros for a more aggressive, less taxing version (cutting the combo, zozu/ignus, and helixes).
Magus of the Moon makes fetches tap for mana, which can be a detriment to a leonin arbiter strategy. I also think Kiki-Jiki is not worth warping the DnT manabase that badly, especially as we already have a hard enough time getting to our 4 drops as it is.
I'd really like to see a Pia and Kiran Nalaar DnT list. We have excess vials/thopters/golems to sac and give us some reach. It's just seems a bit mana-intensive is all, though it does allow first strike golems to kill 5 toughness creatures. If you're considering a gung-ho approach, I can see Iroas, God of Victory being sweet tech to vial in.
I'm picturing Leonin vs fetches in this list keeping them off valuable colors early, and Magus doing it late. Leonin is still active against actual search as well. It's obviously a hit to his effectiveness, but I think he's still effective and Magus brings a lot of extra awkwardness for them, as well as making sure we hit RRR for Kiki.
I'm considering Pia, but I think the higher value 4 drops of Purphoros, Iroas, Avalanche Riders, and Resto are all ahead of them in line. Just doesn't seem high impact enough. If denial isn't a good strategy in the heavy flicker version, they could definitely go in before Riders.
The current build though doesn't seem great with Iroas, since it's more tempo-y and incremental damage/value than push the last bit of damage through.
Match 1: Against UR Twin:
Game one was kind of easy as I was able to cast a Thalia, Guardian of Thraben which slowed him down quite a bit, and he gave finally up because I pathed his Deceiver Exarch as he casted Splinter Twin on it.
Game 2 and 3 were much better, i realized that Stony Silence is absolutely nuts against affinity, so i decided to replace the Kataki with a 3rd Stony Silence after the event. I ended up winning 2-1
Match 3: Against Grixis Control:
I must say for me this was a tough match up. Maybe it was due to the fact that I wasn't experienced with the deck, and my opponent was in general more experienced. I wasn't really able to hate his stuff or put much pressure on board, so i lost game 1.
Game 2 was way better, I had Rest in Peace on the board and was able to build up my board pretty easily, but i found that Blade Splicer is not that great against Grixis Control because of their Kolaghan's Command. I ended up tied against him in game 3 due to the extra turns.
Match 4: Against Tron:
Unfortunately I was complety mana flooded game 1, so I lost that one.
Game 2 and 3 were better concerning the mana base Burrenton and Mark of Asylum are very good against Pyroclasm from him, I was happy having those two cards against him. Stony Silence is also really nice, in my experience. So i ended up winning 2-1.
Match 5: Against Elves:
This was a match up which is generally not in my favor. Even after SB, were i did only bring in the Mirran Crusaders and the Pithing Needle for Ezuri, Renegade Leader. But this match up is for me really luck depended wether to win. But most likely, I felt, that you can just loose to this deck. I lost 0-2.
In conclusion, i must say that I wasn't happy with Dryad Militant and Judge's Familiar at all. I sided them out most of the time. Also Aven Mindcensor was just a 2/1 Flyer for 3 mana, which is not great. So I am thinking of replacing these cards for the future, at least the dryads and Avens for sure. I am also not yet sure on Pithing Needle or Spellskite, because I wasn't able to use them during these games.
But the biggest "problem" for me was the Elves match up. For me it is kind of a automatic lose. Does anyone have tipps for this match up? I am speaking of the version with heritage Druid, Chord of Calling and CoCo.
Also do you guys have tipps for the Grixis Control match-up?
Remove hushwing and two other cards for 4 flickerwisps
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Modern decks: Death and Taxes, Hatebears, Well Oiled Machine, Merfolk, Nyx Wave, Soul Sisters, Stompy, Matyr Proc, Naya Zoo, Robots (I refuse to call it affinity!), Bogles, Kiki Chord
Probably going to play WB DnT at GP Oklahoma City, but a buddy and I are testing out a WR list first. Any suggestions? I read through all the previous WR lists and discussions I could find using that search I posted the other week. Going for a more tempo-y version of the red splash, with the combo. An alternative would be maindeck Alesha, Avalanche Riders, Legions Initiative, Keledon Marauders, and Purphoros for a more aggressive, less taxing version (cutting the combo, zozu/ignus, and helixes).
I'd play 2 Magus main board and 2 in the sideboard. They are amazing when you can vial it in vs. an opponent to shut off all of their lands, but are terrible vs. something like burn in game 1. Magus acts like your big finisher. Once you get one in play they need to draw a bolt to remove it so it usually sticks or they waste a lot of time removing it.
I'd rather play 2 more Tunnel ignus in your deck over Zo-ZU. I never did try him out but to me it looks like 1 extra mana for a very similar effect. Again Tunnel is there for free wins vs. stuff like Scape Shift and Bloom Titan, then incidental value in everything else.
Keep your Arbiters at 4, they are too good to not have.
If you want Kiki I'd put him in the sideboard.
Swap Helix for bolt. Being able to bolt a turn 1 dork or anything else gives you a sweet reason you play red.
If you want to play Riders I'd throw them in your main deck. Last time I played red I had 4 main deck along with 3 resto angels. Between ghost quarter and Riders you have enough ways to kill basic lands to keep opponents locked out under blood moon effects.
That new 4 drop that makes thoptors is probably good to look at including since it lets you throw your aether vials, spell skites and golem tokes at your opponent for extra damage to end the game.
People don't like Boom for two reasons: (1) it isn't a creature and (2) it's a nonbo with Thalia and Wingmare. While it's true that you can't Vial the effect in, Boom can be preferable to Ghost Quarter if you're trying to cut an opponent off of a color. Ghost Quarter necessitates that you have an Arbiter or a Mindcensor in play, because without them, your opponent just tutors up the basic that they need. But you can play Boom for value on T2 with a Flagstones, or you can play Boom on turn 3 for value if you have a Ghost Quarter or a fetchland, or you can play Boom on T5 for value with Tectonic Edge. As for Boom being a nonbo with Thalia/Wingmare, your sequencing should fix this problem. If you have both Boom and Thalia in hand, you figure out which one is more important, and then play it first. If you draw into Boom while Thalia/Wingmare is already on the board, then you will probably just hold Boom until it makes sense to play. In the matchups where it matters, I typically don't mind paying 3 mana for that effect.
Also, if you somehow get flooded or you're in late-game topdeck mode, Bust can win you the game. If you're playing Tron or Grixis anything, and you manage to resolve a Bust, you win.
If you're considering a gung-ho approach, I can see Iroas, God of Victory being sweet tech to vial in.
Iroas is great for this deck. I've looked at using Boros Reckoner before in the R splash, because it does some work. It builds devotion for Iroas. It can't be Bolted for value. It makes your opponent think twice about swinging with their Tarmogoyf. The problem is that Boros Reckoner is almost impossible to play without a Vial. The utility lands in our deck put that mana cost out of reach. But even without Reckoner, Iroas is really good.
I'd play 2 Magus main board and 2 in the sideboard. They are amazing when you can vial it in vs. an opponent to shut off all of their lands, but are terrible vs. something like burn in game 1. Magus acts like your big finisher. Once you get one in play they need to draw a bolt to remove it so it usually sticks or they waste a lot of time removing it.
I agree with this, but with a few caveats. As you mentioned, this trick works best off of Æther Vial. In the games where you don't have Vial, your opponent will do everything that they can do to prevent Magus from staying on the board. They will tap white mana in response, float it, then play Path. They will Remand a Magus. They will float blue and bounce a Magus. Magus is typically a good play, but it's really only a surprise off of an Æther Vial.
If you run Magus, you should also run Arid Mesa. No one ever believes it, but D&T can support some fetchlands. The reason is sequencing. If you see that you're going to play a T2 Arbiter, you lead with a T1 fetchland. You have two complete turns to crack fetchlands before Arbiter starts to cause problems. The only time that fetchlands will be an issue, is when you topdeck a fetchland on T3 or T4, with an Arbiter already in play. It doesn't happen as often as you'd think. The Arid Mesas will help fix your mana in preparation for a Magus of the Moon. You will want to be able to search up a Plains, because this deck's basic lands are what maintains an edge over our opponents.
I'd rather play 2 more Tunnel ignus in your deck over Zo-ZU. I never did try him out but to me it looks like 1 extra mana for a very similar effect. Again Tunnel is there for free wins vs. stuff like Scape Shift and Bloom Titan, then incidental value in everything else.
Some days, I like Tunnel Ignus, but I don't like that it can only attack into an empty board, and even then, not against Twin. I probably wouldn't play it, but I can see why it's useful.
If you want to play Riders I'd throw them in your main deck. Last time I played red I had 4 main deck along with 3 resto angels. Between ghost quarter and Riders you have enough ways to kill basic lands to keep opponents locked out under blood moon effects.
I've stopped liking Avalanche Riders in this deck. It's great when you curve into it, but it can be a terrible topdeck. For a 4-drop, having 2/2 stats with an echo cost is just awful. For that much mana, I want a more aggressive creature.
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
I don't think Ignus is great right now but I'd prefer him over Zo-ZU in the deck if you are going to play any of those effects. As for boom//bust, I don't think the deck wants it. We already have the issue of bad mid-late game draws with Aether vial and a bunch of 2-3 drops while our opponents play good stuff. I'd also rather play a dryad militant turn one or an aether vial.
I also agree with Arid Mesa. I think out of the 100 or so games I played there were only 4 where I had an issue fetching a land with it.
I think if I was going to play red right now it would look something like:
You then have 8 slots to fill with whatever else you want. I'd be leaning towards 4 Dryad Militant and 4 Phyrexian Revoker. I've been really enjoying the revokers latley and they gain additional value off of your 4 drops in the late game.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Currently none. For a very long time I played two judges familiars.
I'm running five. (3-2, Kytheon - Familiar)
Currently I've cutted 2 Finks to make room for 6 one-drops, a 3-3 dryad/familiar split. I guess people who play this deck sometimes underestimate how valued are those two to tax the opponent and to develop a board and a clock.
I've played one match against my own deck and it's a nightmare.
Kytheon is real good. But as @dreamcaster said, I won't buy it for the current price (US$ 13.00). My guess is that eventually Dryad will prove to be better than him. Dryad has immediate impact (messing with bolts, snaps, goyf, souls) and doesn't require work to pay back.
I think Kytheon would be better/awesome in a token deck.
BTW Will Murai rocks.
i get that mirran crusader can block anglers and tasigurs all day, but do you like having them in against a deck that plays lighting bolts and snapcasters?
my cube excel sheet, with metagame info and charts!
Depends. If that deck is Burn or something, no. But if that deck is also running Terminates/Kommand/Murderous Cut/Victim of Night/Go for the Throat with their Snaps, then he's still pretty good. I'll usually still board him out if they have the combo, but if they're just control/delve wins, I'll leave him in. They only have so many Bolt/Snap/Bolt, and they're likely going towards your other guys.
Death and Taxes Videos
Traproot Graphics
Modern:
Fateseal Control | Current Version on TappedOut
Modern Death and Taxes | Current Version on TappedOut
Bant Tempo | Current Version on TappedOut
@Jendo87 I wonder if kitchen finks is still worth keeping in against grixis however. Maybe flickerwisp is a slightly worst card in this matchup and 1-2 can be cut there? Our list are different so our cuts are dramatically different. Just curious why finks was the cut. Guess it doesn't really matter if you 2-0'd the opponent! Again, Congrats!
I'm preparing for the SCG event this weekend in DC with some friends. I'm considering skipping the legacy portion of the event just so I can play Death and Taxes in Modern! Not really sure what will end up happening but if I do, I'll leave a tournament report for the forum!
Catch you guys after the weekend!
-Catmix
WWModern Death And Taxes (w/ Militia Bugler) (JUL '19)
GWModern Maverick (JUL '19)
WBCatmix on Twitch!
WWCatmix on Youtube
My initial build would be:
3 Plains
1 Forest (needed?)
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Temple Garden
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Horizon Canopy (more?)
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Stirring Wildwood (good?)
1 Gavony Township (more?)
Is Wooded Bastion worth it? Should I up the landcount to 23?
Forest: it's likely people will want to blood moon you. On the micro splash the forest may not be important but if you rely on green cards out of the sb then maybe you should keep one around.
Canopy: great at 2. The g/w list adds a ton of card value and isn't in as much need of card cycling as mono-white.
Wildwood: I never actually had one in play. I normally don't like tapped lands especially if you need to hit four drops or gavony on time.
Gavony: I only ran one and hardly ever utilized it. But when it showed up, it secured my wins from a second angle. I see a couple of people running two but I don't think it's right.
Hope it helps!
WWModern Death And Taxes (w/ Militia Bugler) (JUL '19)
GWModern Maverick (JUL '19)
WBCatmix on Twitch!
WWCatmix on Youtube
My current manabase:
4 Temple Garden
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Tectonic Edge
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Eiganjo Castle
My list currently runs 14 green and 14 white sources and I have been incredibly happy with my mana base. 11 out of the 22 total lands provide some kind of utility outside of tapping for mana.
I wouldn't run anything other than the full 4 Horizon Canopy in G/W. Hierarch will help you cast spells and this gives you so much more staying power vs decks like Jund and close games. However, in mono white I could see only running 2. The damage is negligible since we don't take that much from our lands anyways (the damage isn't compounded in comparison to a fetch/shock manabase) and we also already have a good burn and affinity matchup (at least my list does).
If I went up to 23 lands it would be a 3rd Tectonic Edge.
A great article about required mana sources to cast spells: Frank Analysis - How Many Colored Mana Sources Do You Need to Consistently Cast Your Spells?
Here's the list I'm taking at the moment:
3x Blade Splicer
1x Eternal Witness
4x Flickerwisp
1x Kitchen Finks
4x Leonin Arbiter
2x Loxodon Smiter
4x Noble Hierarch
2x Qasali Pridemage
1x Restoration Angel
2x Serra Avenger
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x Path to Exile
1x Dromoka's Command
1x Forest
1x Gavony Township
4x Ghost Quarter
3x Horizon Canopy
4x Plains
4x Razorverge Thicket
1x Tectonic Edge
4x Temple Garden
1x Choke
2x Engineered Explosives
2x Kor Firewalker
1x Mark of Asylum
3x Mirran Crusader
2x Rest in Peace
1x Spellskite
2x Stony Silence
1x Surgical Extraction
Any last minute suggestions, especially regarding the sideboard would be appreciated.
4x Blade Splicer
4x Flickerwisp
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
3x Leonin Arbiter
3x Magus of the Moon
2x Restoration Angel
2x Spellskite
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1x Tunnel Ignus
2x Zo-Zu the Punisher
Land (23)
2x Clifftop Retreat
4x Ghost Quarter
1x Mountain
7x Plains
4x Rugged Prairie
4x Sacred Foundry
1x Slayers' Stronghold
4x Lightning Helix
4x Path to Exile
Artifact (4)
4x AEther Vial
2x Avalanche Riders
2x Burrenton Forge-Tender
1x Disenchant
2x Ghostly Prison
2x Lightning Helix
1x Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2x Reciprocate
2x Rest in Peace
1x Worship
Maybeboard (16)
1x Alesha, Who Smiles at Death
1x Boom/Bust
3x Eidolon of the Great Revel
3x Grim Lavamancer
1x Legion's Initiative
4x Lightning Bolt
1x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2x Valorous Stance
Death and Taxes Videos
Traproot Graphics
Modern:
Fateseal Control | Current Version on TappedOut
Modern Death and Taxes | Current Version on TappedOut
Bant Tempo | Current Version on TappedOut
I'd really like to see a Pia and Kiran Nalaar DnT list. We have excess vials/thopters/golems to sac and give us some reach. It's just seems a bit mana-intensive is all, though it does allow first strike golems to kill 5 toughness creatures. If you're considering a gung-ho approach, I can see Iroas, God of Victory being sweet tech to vial in.
Rise of the Hobgoblins actually works with Flickerwisp. Cool tech.
I'm considering Pia, but I think the higher value 4 drops of Purphoros, Iroas, Avalanche Riders, and Resto are all ahead of them in line. Just doesn't seem high impact enough. If denial isn't a good strategy in the heavy flicker version, they could definitely go in before Riders.
The current build though doesn't seem great with Iroas, since it's more tempo-y and incremental damage/value than push the last bit of damage through.
Death and Taxes Videos
Traproot Graphics
Modern:
Fateseal Control | Current Version on TappedOut
Modern Death and Taxes | Current Version on TappedOut
Bant Tempo | Current Version on TappedOut
The list i used was the following:
15x Plains
4x Ghost Quarter
3x Tectonic Edge
1x Eiganjo Castle
Spells
4x Path to Exile
4x Aether Vial
Creatures
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x Leonin Arbiter
4x Flickerwisp
3x Blade Splicer
3x Judge's Familiar
2x Brimaz, King of Oreskos
3x Restoration Angel
2x Dryad Militant
2x Aven Mindcensor
1x Vryn Wingmare
1x Archangel of Tithes
2x Stony Silence
2x Burrenton Forge-Tender
2x Spellskite
2x Rest in Peace
2x Mirran Crusader
1x Disenchant
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Mark of Asylum
1x Pithing Needle
1x Kataki, War's Wage
Match 1: Against UR Twin:
Game one was kind of easy as I was able to cast a Thalia, Guardian of Thraben which slowed him down quite a bit, and he gave finally up because I pathed his Deceiver Exarch as he casted Splinter Twin on it.
SB:
2x Aven Mindcensor out
2x Dryad Militant out
2x Spellskite in
1x Pithing Needle in
1x Disenchant in
Game 2 was similar, but i had much more pressure on board with Brimaz and Blade Splicer, i ended up winning 2-0.
Match 2: Against Affinity:
Game 1 was a loss, i wasn't able to do much, cause i had a quite slow hand, and he was just way faster.
SB:
2x Dryad Militant out
2x Aven Mindcensor out
2x Stony Silence in
1x Kataki, War's Wage in
1x Disenchant in
Game 2 and 3 were much better, i realized that Stony Silence is absolutely nuts against affinity, so i decided to replace the Kataki with a 3rd Stony Silence after the event. I ended up winning 2-1
Match 3: Against Grixis Control:
I must say for me this was a tough match up. Maybe it was due to the fact that I wasn't experienced with the deck, and my opponent was in general more experienced. I wasn't really able to hate his stuff or put much pressure on board, so i lost game 1.
SB:
2x Aven Mindcensor out
1x Archangel of Tithes out
1x Path to Exile out
1x Blade Splicer out
2x Judge's Familiar out
2x Rest in Peace in
2x Spellskite in
2x Mirran Crusader in
1x Grafdigger's Cage in
Game 2 was way better, I had Rest in Peace on the board and was able to build up my board pretty easily, but i found that Blade Splicer is not that great against Grixis Control because of their Kolaghan's Command. I ended up tied against him in game 3 due to the extra turns.
Match 4: Against Tron:
Unfortunately I was complety mana flooded game 1, so I lost that one.
SB:
2x Dryad Militant out
4x Path to Exile out
1x Judge's Familiar out
1x Archangel of Tithes out
2x Stony Silence in
1x Kataki, War's Wage in
1x Disenchant in
2x Burrenton Forge-Tender in
1x Pithing Needle in
1x Mark of Asylum in
Game 2 and 3 were better concerning the mana base Burrenton and Mark of Asylum are very good against Pyroclasm from him, I was happy having those two cards against him. Stony Silence is also really nice, in my experience. So i ended up winning 2-1.
Match 5: Against Elves:
This was a match up which is generally not in my favor. Even after SB, were i did only bring in the Mirran Crusaders and the Pithing Needle for Ezuri, Renegade Leader. But this match up is for me really luck depended wether to win. But most likely, I felt, that you can just loose to this deck. I lost 0-2.
In conclusion, i must say that I wasn't happy with Dryad Militant and Judge's Familiar at all. I sided them out most of the time. Also Aven Mindcensor was just a 2/1 Flyer for 3 mana, which is not great. So I am thinking of replacing these cards for the future, at least the dryads and Avens for sure. I am also not yet sure on Pithing Needle or Spellskite, because I wasn't able to use them during these games.
But the biggest "problem" for me was the Elves match up. For me it is kind of a automatic lose. Does anyone have tipps for this match up? I am speaking of the version with heritage Druid, Chord of Calling and CoCo.
Also do you guys have tipps for the Grixis Control match-up?
Greetings Flying Delver
This is my list...hope that it would work on our playtests during weekends.
Creatures:
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Hushwing Gryff
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Scavenging Ooze
1 Spellskite
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Vryn Wingmare
2 Wilt-Leaf Liege
Spells:
4 AEther Vial
1 Dromoka's Command
4 Path to Exile
Lands:
2 Forest
2 Gavony Township
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Plains
4 Razorverge Thicket
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Tectonic Edge
4 Temple Garden
SB:
2 Celestial Flare
2 Choke
2 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Kor Firewalker
1 Mark of Asylum
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Stony Silence
Remove hushwing and two other cards for 4 flickerwisps
I'd play 2 Magus main board and 2 in the sideboard. They are amazing when you can vial it in vs. an opponent to shut off all of their lands, but are terrible vs. something like burn in game 1. Magus acts like your big finisher. Once you get one in play they need to draw a bolt to remove it so it usually sticks or they waste a lot of time removing it.
I'd rather play 2 more Tunnel ignus in your deck over Zo-ZU. I never did try him out but to me it looks like 1 extra mana for a very similar effect. Again Tunnel is there for free wins vs. stuff like Scape Shift and Bloom Titan, then incidental value in everything else.
Keep your Arbiters at 4, they are too good to not have.
If you want Kiki I'd put him in the sideboard.
Swap Helix for bolt. Being able to bolt a turn 1 dork or anything else gives you a sweet reason you play red.
If you want to play Riders I'd throw them in your main deck. Last time I played red I had 4 main deck along with 3 resto angels. Between ghost quarter and Riders you have enough ways to kill basic lands to keep opponents locked out under blood moon effects.
That new 4 drop that makes thoptors is probably good to look at including since it lets you throw your aether vials, spell skites and golem tokes at your opponent for extra damage to end the game.
You should consider Flagstones of Trokair and Boom/Bust. Those games where you play T1 Vial, and T2 Boom (hitting a Flagstones of Trokair) are awesome.
People don't like Boom for two reasons: (1) it isn't a creature and (2) it's a nonbo with Thalia and Wingmare. While it's true that you can't Vial the effect in, Boom can be preferable to Ghost Quarter if you're trying to cut an opponent off of a color. Ghost Quarter necessitates that you have an Arbiter or a Mindcensor in play, because without them, your opponent just tutors up the basic that they need. But you can play Boom for value on T2 with a Flagstones, or you can play Boom on turn 3 for value if you have a Ghost Quarter or a fetchland, or you can play Boom on T5 for value with Tectonic Edge. As for Boom being a nonbo with Thalia/Wingmare, your sequencing should fix this problem. If you have both Boom and Thalia in hand, you figure out which one is more important, and then play it first. If you draw into Boom while Thalia/Wingmare is already on the board, then you will probably just hold Boom until it makes sense to play. In the matchups where it matters, I typically don't mind paying 3 mana for that effect.
Also, if you somehow get flooded or you're in late-game topdeck mode, Bust can win you the game. If you're playing Tron or Grixis anything, and you manage to resolve a Bust, you win.
Iroas is great for this deck. I've looked at using Boros Reckoner before in the R splash, because it does some work. It builds devotion for Iroas. It can't be Bolted for value. It makes your opponent think twice about swinging with their Tarmogoyf. The problem is that Boros Reckoner is almost impossible to play without a Vial. The utility lands in our deck put that mana cost out of reach. But even without Reckoner, Iroas is really good.
I agree with this, but with a few caveats. As you mentioned, this trick works best off of Æther Vial. In the games where you don't have Vial, your opponent will do everything that they can do to prevent Magus from staying on the board. They will tap white mana in response, float it, then play Path. They will Remand a Magus. They will float blue and bounce a Magus. Magus is typically a good play, but it's really only a surprise off of an Æther Vial.
If you run Magus, you should also run Arid Mesa. No one ever believes it, but D&T can support some fetchlands. The reason is sequencing. If you see that you're going to play a T2 Arbiter, you lead with a T1 fetchland. You have two complete turns to crack fetchlands before Arbiter starts to cause problems. The only time that fetchlands will be an issue, is when you topdeck a fetchland on T3 or T4, with an Arbiter already in play. It doesn't happen as often as you'd think. The Arid Mesas will help fix your mana in preparation for a Magus of the Moon. You will want to be able to search up a Plains, because this deck's basic lands are what maintains an edge over our opponents.
Some days, I like Tunnel Ignus, but I don't like that it can only attack into an empty board, and even then, not against Twin. I probably wouldn't play it, but I can see why it's useful.
Agree completely.
I agree with this too. Everyone likes to win out of nowhere, but by the time you can actually play the combo, you're probably already winning.
It sounds so anticlimatic to Bolt a dork, but having access to this line of play is necessary, given you want Magus of the Moon to be effective.
I've stopped liking Avalanche Riders in this deck. It's great when you curve into it, but it can be a terrible topdeck. For a 4-drop, having 2/2 stats with an echo cost is just awful. For that much mana, I want a more aggressive creature.
WUDeath&TaxesWG
Legacy
UBRGDredgeUBRG
UHigh TideU
URGLandsURG
WR Card Choice List
WUR American D&T
WUB Esper D&T
The Reserved List
Heat Maps
I also agree with Arid Mesa. I think out of the 100 or so games I played there were only 4 where I had an issue fetching a land with it.
I think if I was going to play red right now it would look something like:
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Magus of the Moon
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4 Flickerwisp
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
4 AEther Vial
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Mountain
6 Plains
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Arid Mesa
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Tectonic Edge
2 Slayers' Stronghold
You then have 8 slots to fill with whatever else you want. I'd be leaning towards 4 Dryad Militant and 4 Phyrexian Revoker. I've been really enjoying the revokers latley and they gain additional value off of your 4 drops in the late game.