@Emberflux
Like the build better than my old one. Eternal Witness + Flickerwisp seems pretty gross, and the ability to drop 2 creatures into play turn 4 seems strong. Still think you might want something in the deck to deal with Blood Moon.
Thanks and yes the interaction with those two cards alone can be devastating when the answer you need is in your gy. Casting path from my hand, then vialing in witness for a second path, and finally flickering witness for a third Path has won me so many games.
As for Blood Moon, I have Vials and Hierarch's to circumvent it's effect and three Pridemages in the 75 for hate. I could run Dromoka's Command to be safer but paying GW could be troublesome when it's on the field. Maybe Krosan Grip, Nature's Claim, or good ol Disenchant/Naturalize would be better? As for what I will have to take out it will most likely be Stony Silence.
Edit: I've thought of the perfect solution for Blood Moon! Celestial Purge not only hits it but it could also hit Griselbrand, Liliana, Tasigur, Olivia, Confidant, Huntmaster, and Splinter Twin.
I got to work this morning and found out that they started banning MTGS access, so posts from me are going to be a lot rarer going forward (which is probably a good thing given how much I've been posting lately ).
The more I've been thinking about it, the less excited I am about Wingmare. I love the ability, of course, but based on my matches in Charlotte and Baltimore, I think this deck is at its best when the taxing is coming from the 1s and 2s, with the shenanigans/power coming from the 3s and 4s. Wingmare and Mindcensor are unimpressive bodies for the cost, so you're really leaning hard on the abilities. Mindcensor having flash is relevant, but even then a lot of us have been moving off of Mindcensor. I'm starting to think that Wingmare isn't what I was hoping it would be.
Anyway, specific notes after Baltimore:
Canopy. I ran 3 of them and had zero regrets. It was a small sample size, but I believe I cracked Canopy for cards more often than I tapped them for mana.
Resto. I continue to run 2 and continue to have no regrets. I also am unafraid to tick Vial up to 4 even without Resto in hand in the right scenarios. It's just a card I've never been unhappy to have in hand or draw late and rewards patient play.
Stonecloaker. Meh. When it worked, it was as cute as I had hoped, and yes, exiling Kommand in response to Snapcaster was everything I'd hoped it would be, but it's a super-slow rebuy and overall I don't think it's worth it.
Yea, I hated the idea of wrath but it just doest too much work for me as a lingering souls version of this deck. Its been really good against collected company decks. They tend to over extend into it and gives me a great opportunity to play as the control player. I usually can lean on lingering souls to force them to cast more stuff than they planned and then catch them with a board sweep. Worship tested way better than I've ever imagined. A key thing a lot of tax players forget is that siding Thalia out against creature decks is totally reasonable. If they run 25+ creatures, your thalia isn't really accomplishing much. I normally toss her out against merfolk, company decks, affinity, and elves. This makes casting worship, wraths, and so forth way more reasonable than they receive credit for.
That engineered explosive slot is very likely going away. It has been pretty much great against boggles, affinity, and elves. I don't see it coming in against mush else but those decks can be very frustrating without it. I really have been tanking on that and the 4th burrenton FT.
Thanks for the feedback and I hope you try the worship out!
PS: I don't think I'll be running Vryn anytime soon sadly. While I think the card is great, I think mana dorks are very critical for its success. I don't think W/B or mono-white can justify more than two copies without the tax actually harmfully affecting ourselves. For me, that means cutting lingering souls which is very likely at the moment.
I disagree with a lot of your points. EE is a card that is an auto 2 of in any of my splashed versions of D&T. It's how you deal with all those creatures. I know wrath is tempting, but I really don't think it's the way to go against decks like CoCo.... Although, I'm glad others have found surgical to be good like I have. Just be careful of arbiter nonbo.
I think Vryn is probably going to be a 2 of in most of our decks. What feel better than curving form thalia into vryn? It's totally doable without dorks, but I wouldn't run more than 3. Probably only 2. I'll have to test it when it comes out. I don't think we should be running more than 10 noncreature spells anyway. Especially with vryn coming in. When I try it in my WG splash, I may have to take out CoCo and go down to the bare minimum for noncreature spells. I have a WB splash I'm working on right now and I think it's very well positioned in the meta right now, but I've never even thought of running lingering. Thalia just makes it way too expensive. Considering it does 0 taxing it's not worth it, at least to me. With my WG splash, I have a lot of noncreature spells in the board and I've come to realize that we really only want so many of them. Thalia pretty much never comes out is the thing. Even against creature decks, I find her very useful. The firststrike matters, especially in combination with splicer.
Hey guys thanks for the feedback on suppression field. I realized the incorrect assessment at the store and swapped it back out.
@spiderspace I think there is a difference in decks that we may not be lining up on. I personally run lingering souls in my list. The assessment is based on that version of my deck and not all Dnt (regarding EE, wrath of god, worship). If you still feel that way it's totally understandable and I can agree to disagree. I just haven't had the matches you are describing where explosives is the best answer. I'm definitely not telling others to cut it, just my list is cutting it ATM for testing.
Thank you for the warning of nonbo with leonin arbiter. That is very important to pay attention to.
I still stand behind my thoughts on vryn. I agree that gw needs to cut company to cast it to be successful and I don't know if I can get behind that idea at the moment. I still believe the doubled tax can put us behind in quite a few matchups.
I've cut Thalia against certain decks from day one. I think it's down to your sb planning.
I've mentioned before that playing souls around Thalia is fairly simple. It's card evaluation against what deck your facing. It doesn't tax but it can win games by itself.
Tonight's Tournament Results: 3-0
It was a smaller turn out but enough diverse decks to play against.
Round 1 vs. Burn 2-0
G1: he is very aggressive in the opening via swiftspear, eidolon, atarka's command. I stabilize with vial, Brimaz and Thalia.
G2: I open with burrenton ft, Thalia, and leonin arbiter with ghost quarter. It ends fairly quickly from here.
Round 2 vs. jund 2-0
G1: I land a vial, lingering souls and Serra avenger against him early while his dark confidant is dealing him a decent amount of damage. His bob along with my lingering souls killed him.
G2: I turn 1 a BFT and follow it up with skite into arbiter. I keep him off red and vial an uncontested Mirran crusader. I finish the game with crusader and arbiter attacking. (Important to note: he had to make Lilliana kill a lingering souls token, kill my BFT just to get spellskite off board so he could then attempt to bolt my crusader. At which point I had already shut him off red.)
Round 3 vs. Grixis control 2-1
G1: we play a long grindy game one where he eventually pulls ahead via tasigur and gurmag angler. Lack of an aether vial and him with a bunch of remands & k command stalled him out so long that I just lost resources.
G2: i land arbiter and ghost quarter 3 lands within the first 6 turns. I launch a Brimaz and it's over. Like a gentlemen, he made me play it out.
G3: I felt favored and then he played a blood moon! Then I felt really felt favored. He cast a lightning bolt and kills a thing. I use surgical and take a bolt in hand and search his deck. After looking, I see he has noway to produce black mana anymore. I win by him sandbagging all black removal, angler and tasigur. He stated that he thought the blood moon would hurt me more (assuming my black mana meant something to me). This is the second time someone has tried to blood moon me in a tournament. Between basics and vial, I never felt pressured by the blood moon play.
Sb cards that shined tonight were burrenton forge-tender and surgical. Worship was there if the jund match went sour but I got very far ahead that game and didn't need it. Relic also was very good and didn't disappoint.
Hope the info helps!
-catmix
Ps: other decks that were there included: grixis twin, grixis delver, slivers, combo abzhan company.
Not the biggest deal but I played one of the 3-2-1-1 MM Ques and went 3-0. Decided to stick with Mono White for this Sunday's Big Tournament since it has been getting me solid result and I need to tweak the green a bit more to get what i want out of it. The list is the exact same i have been posting recently. I may drop the Eidolon, any games it has slowed opponent down but many others they have gone through their cantrips before i cast it. Tournament results were I beat grixis delver twice and affinity once. Kataki killed affinity one of the games and like always with delver it was really grindy but i drew into more creatures than he had answers (Spellskite helps against two for one shenanigans with kolaghan's Command)...each round was 2-1. Brimaz was an all-star again either forcing double removal or doing a huge amount of damage. flickerwisp helped stave off delver of secrets by unflipping it a few games as well as the usual fun business and surprise value (i will never run less than 4 just so versatile.)
Trying to go outside the box for a main deck replacement for eidolon of Rhetoric. I like the numbers of all the standard cards in the deck. So far the choices are: Kitchen Finks- Stock 2 of in many lists gain a bit of life chum block like a champ, but i cut anafenza and 3 power on the ground isnt outstanding. Emancipation Angel- Another 3 cmc flier that is flicker friendly and can be cast T3 by bouncing a land, which isn't a big loss since i run no 4 drops MB Field MArshal- Dryad Militant, Thalia and Brimaz are all soldiers...seems like a bit of a win more card. Frontline Medic- Help push through ground pounders against a tasigur, angler or any other fat creature. Intrepid Hero- Kind of like mangara, can be amazing but good chance he get's bolted before we can use him. Mangara of corondor- Like Hero but with flicker shenanigans, still dies to removal many times before he can be useful. Mentor of the meek- Serious CA with flicker, brimaz, and 1/2 the creatures in our deck; works with vialed in targets and the activation is colorless. Mirror Entity- with no mana accel, it can still be good but seems like it is definitely a win more card Order of Whiteclay- With stands bolt, can attack into most format creatures to resolve untap trigger and gets back any creature that died. Paladin en-vec- First strike and dodges all removal except path, but is held up by just about every green creature out there. Silverblade paladin- flicker fun and double strike. By himself he is just an expensive bear though.
And Last but not least Stonecloaker- Tried and true in the old days. Saves a creature from spot removal, and hates on snapcaster and a few other fringe decks, let alone being a 3P beat stick that flies.
Leaning towards the stonecloaker, but many of the other options I may test during the week, especially mentor of the meek. Please weigh in with any suggestions thoughts or experiences.
So while considering the W/B list, would it be beneficial to vial in a Maralen of the mornsong while having an Arbiter or Mindcensor in place, backed by Thalia? I realize there are criteria to meet for this to be a successful play, but the chances of having these pieces in place are not outlandish, and an alternate means of speeding grindy match ups along may benefit.
Pair the limiting of draw with our land destruction plan, our value "hate-package" stands a chance of stabilizing. Worst comes to worst, each player is down three life and they lost a kill spell to remove the creature. Double points if you vial Maralen in at their end of turn, fetch your Arbiter or Mindcensor on your turn, or an additional Ghost Quarter if you've already been successful in land denial.
My biggest problem with the deck is having an adequate t1 play. I feel like you almost have to be doing something on t1 in the current meta and 4 Vial + 2 Familiar gives me a 50%+ chance to see one on the play(54%) and draw(59%). Obviously, I always want to see Vial but between Familiar, Militant and to a much lesser extent Student of Warfare it all seems so meh.
You definitely get style points if this is pulled off. I don't think I'm personally brave enough to attempt this! Make it happen and then tell us about the experience!
@hugeelfboy
My top two tempting options are kitchen finks and mangara. Finks is the most balanced choice and mangara has the most desirable ability after that.
So while considering the W/B list, would it be beneficial to vial in a Maralen of the mornsong while having an Arbiter or Mindcensor in place, backed by Thalia? I realize there are criteria to meet for this to be a successful play, but the chances of having these pieces in place are not outlandish, and an alternate means of speeding grindy match ups along may benefit.
Pair the limiting of draw with our land destruction plan, our value "hate-package" stands a chance of stabilizing. Worst comes to worst, each player is down three life and they lost a kill spell to remove the creature. Double points if you vial Maralen in at their end of turn, fetch your Arbiter or Mindcensor on your turn, or an additional Ghost Quarter if you've already been successful in land denial.
You definitely get style points if this is pulled off. I don't think I'm personally brave enough to attempt this! Make it happen and then tell us about the experience!
I was considering Maralen going into the 5k a couple weeks back, but I opted to go a little more vanilla. I'd definitely be curious how it works out for you! Worst case, you can load a combo deck to kill you the following turn, however. Even with Mindcensor out, you're still giving your opponent Impulse for three life every turn. You pretty much need to have Biter in play to make it worthwhile, but then you're paying to get cards, too. Now if you have Bob in play (sorry, Blood Scrivener doesn't work here), she suddenly gets much, much better. Of course, you're gonna need some pretty massive life gain to offset the lifeloss.
My top two tempting options are kitchen finks and mangara. Finks is the most balanced choice and mangara has the most desirable ability after that.
Of these two, I'd lean towards Finks. While historically I haven't been a fan of the card, it's fantastic in the meta right now...even without Anafenza.
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“Modern has provided us a non-rotating format that is far more accessible than Legacy or Vintage, but still retains many of the qualities that people enjoy in those formats—such as a more stable metagame, the ability to play and tweak the same deck week after week, and simply a much more powerful card pool than Standard.”
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
No Thalia, Arbiter, wisp, or vial. It is missing the entire D&T core.
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My Modern decks: Death and Taxes, Hatebears, Well Oiled Machine, Merfolk, Nyx Wave, Soul Sisters, Stompy, Matyr Proc, Naya Zoo, Robots (I refuse to call it affinity!), Bogles, Kiki Chord
Welcome to Death & Taxes in Modern.
This is a sub-forum for the Modern W/x Death & Taxes forum.
It has a high density of experienced players and welcomed newcomers. The forum focuses on tournament results, meta preparation for larger events, new discoveries for the Death & Taxes archetypes and so much more! So why have a sub-forum then? Card evaluation is something that newer players come to the main forum for often. As much as experienced players love introducing new taxers to the deck, it sometimes prevents the main topics of discussion from reaching a conclusion.
What the sub-forum hopes to accomplish!
The idea is to express what cards have been proven thus far, which cards look promising going forward, and which metas they perform best in. This goes for main deck and sideboard options. This will allow new members of the Death & Tax community to quickly catch up with card evaluation and get directly into the main forum's discussions.
Example Evaluation.
Archetype: All [based on color viability]
Pros: [insert valid points]
Cons: [insert valid points]
Main Deck#: 2-4
Sideboard#: 1-2
Analyzed by: DeathandCatmix (Summer 2015)
The Update Schedule.
This forum will receive an official launch on Magic: Origins's release date -including the backwards catalog. It will be updated as new sets come out, cards become banned/unbanned, and as tournament results shift the meta drastically. As cards can shift in power due to bans, meta shifts, and new discoveries, cards may be re-analyzed and re-submitted again at later dates for evaluation.
How can you help?
If you have input for any cards whether new or old, directly message me with: card name, the archetype it goes in, main deck and sideboard quantities, and the pros/cons of running the aforementioned card. I will make certain you are credited for the analyzing of the mentioned card. If you have ideas to keep this sub-forum healthy and easier to use, feel free to private message me with details regarding that as well.
@calvinnhobbes
Maybe "close" was too loose for comfort of language on the internet lol. I'm just acknowledging a list extremely similar to us went top 16 in Singapore. If there are cards in there that we can learn from it may help us better understand how to get maximum value in each main deck and sideboard slot. (Actually laughing at your response).
Match 1 - Bloom Titan 2-1
Game 1 - I kept a two path hand with sculler, but it I drew into nothing useful and he gets a turn 3 hivemind combo to kill me. (side in BFT, Mark of Asylum, Skite, Pact)
Game 2 - Thalia keeps him off summer bloom mana long enough for scullers to take apart his hand.
Game 3 - Arbiter + Ghost Quarter twice in a row on his bounce lands.
Match 2 - Grixis Twin 1-2
Game 1 - Long struggle in a very grindy game, but he beats down with tasigurs for the win (Board in Skite, BFT, Mark of Asylum, Pact, Dismember, Crusader)
Game 2 - Dark Confidant won this game, drew me into the paths and flickerwisps I needed to keep him off twin, while arbiter and quarters whittled down his lands.
Game 3 - Also a grindy game, but he finally got me to no cards in hand (he just blew out my aether vial with Kommand) and twins the following turn.
Match 3 - Bloom Titan 2-1
Game 1 - Arbiter + Thalia + Quarters + Sculler, easy. (side in BFT, Mark of Asylum, Skite, Pact)
Game 2 - Had a good starting plan, but he has three of his Amulets, and just goes off. I'm able to keep up but when he casts a Kozilek he draws into two primevals and I'm just toast.
Game 3 - Arbiter + Thalia + Quarters, easy.
Match 4 - Death & Taxes (Mono-white) 2-0
Game 1 - Ride my Pack Rats and Dark Confidant to victory buy burying him in card advantage. (Board in pontiff, crusader, pack rat)
Game 2 - Ride my Sword of L&S to victory.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Notes:
1. Bloom Titan is a heart wrenching matchup, but should be manageable with a decent hand. SCULLER IS SO GREAT HERE, they have no way of interacting with it and the body is very relevant at putting them on a clock. Hive Mind is the worst though. Wish we had a decent sideboard card for it, but might not be worth it.
2. Splinter Twin is hard. I really wish we'd get a silver bullet that destroys them.
3. Viscera Seer was mediocre so far. It did provide good value with Sculler, but hasn't done anything amazing so far. It also did notably smooth out a few lands to the bottom which did get me into more real cards, so I can't say it was bad. It might play better with Athreos and the new Liliana, once I get around to adding them. I'll keep it for another week to see my feelings on it.
4. Resto Angel, haven't really missed her, she's been nice when I did get her, but I was never really wanting. I'll keep it at a 1-of for now.
5. Sword of L&S - Only saw it twice, and both times against D&T, which destroyed them. Wouldn't have helped in my other matchups, but I'm keeping it in for now as I saw a lot of junk/jund/hatebears/witled abzan be played tonight for some strange reason.
So er, I didn't see this anywhere but what do folks think about Kytheon, Hero of Akros as our 1-drop? He flips relatively easily, we can blink him back to dude form and flip him again if needed, and he can protect our dudes late game. And he's a solid 1-drop.
Not sure how to evaluate him since I haven't played my newly built D&T much, but seems possibly strong as a 2x or so.
I can help a lot with Militant after playing Mono G Stompy for a long time. Pros, 2 power for 1 cmc so at worst verus decks like burn it can trade with Goblin Guide, to reduce damage taken or start out swinging and helping your clock. If you can keep it alive versus Storm decks they will scoop. Nullifies Gifts ungiven combo by removing the unburial Rites, slows delver down from getting angler/tasigur, and nullifies Snapcaster until dealt with. Cons, it takes up the only 1 drop slot in the deck and Icatian Javelineers and Judge's Familiar are also very good.
This should really just be added to the original primer instead of a separate thread
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My Modern decks: Death and Taxes, Hatebears, Well Oiled Machine, Merfolk, Nyx Wave, Soul Sisters, Stompy, Matyr Proc, Naya Zoo, Robots (I refuse to call it affinity!), Bogles, Kiki Chord
Thanks for all the help I think I am just going to throw Restoration angel Back in as a 2 of. Only Creature that gives a desired effect withstands bolts and flies. Also I can lead to some great plays when opponent is trying to stabilize like they pay arbiter tax, go for fetch Resto the arbiter so they can't get land anyways. Many times it saves a creature from spot removal and top deck it can finish a game out. The 4 can be rough at times but if the opponent has seen an angel and you bluff a vial up to 4 it can really throw them off their game. Finks I played with in the deck in the past and it was usually underwhelming. I tired emancipation Angel, but without vial it was not working out, and the harder part of casting either angel is usually the double white not the 4 drop so similar casting issues at times. Stonecloaker has done some work for me in the past but dieing to not only bolt, but forked bolt, electrolyze, Kolaghan's Command, Grim Lavamancer, any other 2 damage spell or 2 power flier...I will just wsuck it up and put 2x resto angel back in.
Thanks and yes the interaction with those two cards alone can be devastating when the answer you need is in your gy. Casting path from my hand, then vialing in witness for a second path, and finally flickering witness for a third Path has won me so many games.
As for Blood Moon, I have Vials and Hierarch's to circumvent it's effect and three Pridemages in the 75 for hate. I could run Dromoka's Command to be safer but paying GW could be troublesome when it's on the field. Maybe Krosan Grip, Nature's Claim, or good ol Disenchant/Naturalize would be better? As for what I will have to take out it will most likely be Stony Silence.
Edit: I've thought of the perfect solution for Blood Moon! Celestial Purge not only hits it but it could also hit Griselbrand, Liliana, Tasigur, Olivia, Confidant, Huntmaster, and Splinter Twin.
GBRJund Elves
GWDevoted Elves
WDeath & Taxes
GWUBRHumans
EDH:
GTitania, Protector of Argoth
The more I've been thinking about it, the less excited I am about Wingmare. I love the ability, of course, but based on my matches in Charlotte and Baltimore, I think this deck is at its best when the taxing is coming from the 1s and 2s, with the shenanigans/power coming from the 3s and 4s. Wingmare and Mindcensor are unimpressive bodies for the cost, so you're really leaning hard on the abilities. Mindcensor having flash is relevant, but even then a lot of us have been moving off of Mindcensor. I'm starting to think that Wingmare isn't what I was hoping it would be.
Anyway, specific notes after Baltimore:
Canopy. I ran 3 of them and had zero regrets. It was a small sample size, but I believe I cracked Canopy for cards more often than I tapped them for mana.
Resto. I continue to run 2 and continue to have no regrets. I also am unafraid to tick Vial up to 4 even without Resto in hand in the right scenarios. It's just a card I've never been unhappy to have in hand or draw late and rewards patient play.
Stonecloaker. Meh. When it worked, it was as cute as I had hoped, and yes, exiling Kommand in response to Snapcaster was everything I'd hoped it would be, but it's a super-slow rebuy and overall I don't think it's worth it.
I disagree with a lot of your points. EE is a card that is an auto 2 of in any of my splashed versions of D&T. It's how you deal with all those creatures. I know wrath is tempting, but I really don't think it's the way to go against decks like CoCo.... Although, I'm glad others have found surgical to be good like I have. Just be careful of arbiter nonbo.
I think Vryn is probably going to be a 2 of in most of our decks. What feel better than curving form thalia into vryn? It's totally doable without dorks, but I wouldn't run more than 3. Probably only 2. I'll have to test it when it comes out. I don't think we should be running more than 10 noncreature spells anyway. Especially with vryn coming in. When I try it in my WG splash, I may have to take out CoCo and go down to the bare minimum for noncreature spells. I have a WB splash I'm working on right now and I think it's very well positioned in the meta right now, but I've never even thought of running lingering. Thalia just makes it way too expensive. Considering it does 0 taxing it's not worth it, at least to me. With my WG splash, I have a lot of noncreature spells in the board and I've come to realize that we really only want so many of them. Thalia pretty much never comes out is the thing. Even against creature decks, I find her very useful. The firststrike matters, especially in combination with splicer.
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
@spiderspace I think there is a difference in decks that we may not be lining up on. I personally run lingering souls in my list. The assessment is based on that version of my deck and not all Dnt (regarding EE, wrath of god, worship). If you still feel that way it's totally understandable and I can agree to disagree. I just haven't had the matches you are describing where explosives is the best answer. I'm definitely not telling others to cut it, just my list is cutting it ATM for testing.
Thank you for the warning of nonbo with leonin arbiter. That is very important to pay attention to.
I still stand behind my thoughts on vryn. I agree that gw needs to cut company to cast it to be successful and I don't know if I can get behind that idea at the moment. I still believe the doubled tax can put us behind in quite a few matchups.
I've cut Thalia against certain decks from day one. I think it's down to your sb planning.
I've mentioned before that playing souls around Thalia is fairly simple. It's card evaluation against what deck your facing. It doesn't tax but it can win games by itself.
Tonight's Tournament Results: 3-0
It was a smaller turn out but enough diverse decks to play against.
Round 1 vs. Burn 2-0
G1: he is very aggressive in the opening via swiftspear, eidolon, atarka's command. I stabilize with vial, Brimaz and Thalia.
G2: I open with burrenton ft, Thalia, and leonin arbiter with ghost quarter. It ends fairly quickly from here.
Round 2 vs. jund 2-0
G1: I land a vial, lingering souls and Serra avenger against him early while his dark confidant is dealing him a decent amount of damage. His bob along with my lingering souls killed him.
G2: I turn 1 a BFT and follow it up with skite into arbiter. I keep him off red and vial an uncontested Mirran crusader. I finish the game with crusader and arbiter attacking. (Important to note: he had to make Lilliana kill a lingering souls token, kill my BFT just to get spellskite off board so he could then attempt to bolt my crusader. At which point I had already shut him off red.)
Round 3 vs. Grixis control 2-1
G1: we play a long grindy game one where he eventually pulls ahead via tasigur and gurmag angler. Lack of an aether vial and him with a bunch of remands & k command stalled him out so long that I just lost resources.
G2: i land arbiter and ghost quarter 3 lands within the first 6 turns. I launch a Brimaz and it's over. Like a gentlemen, he made me play it out.
G3: I felt favored and then he played a blood moon! Then I felt really felt favored. He cast a lightning bolt and kills a thing. I use surgical and take a bolt in hand and search his deck. After looking, I see he has noway to produce black mana anymore. I win by him sandbagging all black removal, angler and tasigur. He stated that he thought the blood moon would hurt me more (assuming my black mana meant something to me). This is the second time someone has tried to blood moon me in a tournament. Between basics and vial, I never felt pressured by the blood moon play.
Sb cards that shined tonight were burrenton forge-tender and surgical. Worship was there if the jund match went sour but I got very far ahead that game and didn't need it. Relic also was very good and didn't disappoint.
Hope the info helps!
-catmix
Ps: other decks that were there included: grixis twin, grixis delver, slivers, combo abzhan company.
WWModern Death And Taxes (w/ Militia Bugler) (JUL '19)
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Kitchen Finks- Stock 2 of in many lists gain a bit of life chum block like a champ, but i cut anafenza and 3 power on the ground isnt outstanding.
Emancipation Angel- Another 3 cmc flier that is flicker friendly and can be cast T3 by bouncing a land, which isn't a big loss since i run no 4 drops MB
Field MArshal- Dryad Militant, Thalia and Brimaz are all soldiers...seems like a bit of a win more card.
Frontline Medic- Help push through ground pounders against a tasigur, angler or any other fat creature.
Intrepid Hero- Kind of like mangara, can be amazing but good chance he get's bolted before we can use him.
Mangara of corondor- Like Hero but with flicker shenanigans, still dies to removal many times before he can be useful.
Mentor of the meek- Serious CA with flicker, brimaz, and 1/2 the creatures in our deck; works with vialed in targets and the activation is colorless.
Mirror Entity- with no mana accel, it can still be good but seems like it is definitely a win more card
Order of Whiteclay- With stands bolt, can attack into most format creatures to resolve untap trigger and gets back any creature that died.
Paladin en-vec- First strike and dodges all removal except path, but is held up by just about every green creature out there.
Silverblade paladin- flicker fun and double strike. By himself he is just an expensive bear though.
And Last but not least Stonecloaker- Tried and true in the old days. Saves a creature from spot removal, and hates on snapcaster and a few other fringe decks, let alone being a 3P beat stick that flies.
Leaning towards the stonecloaker, but many of the other options I may test during the week, especially mentor of the meek. Please weigh in with any suggestions thoughts or experiences.
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Pair the limiting of draw with our land destruction plan, our value "hate-package" stands a chance of stabilizing. Worst comes to worst, each player is down three life and they lost a kill spell to remove the creature. Double points if you vial Maralen in at their end of turn, fetch your Arbiter or Mindcensor on your turn, or an additional Ghost Quarter if you've already been successful in land denial.
2 Judge's Familiar
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Serra Avenger
2 Spellskite
4 Flickerwisp
4 Blade Splicer
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Restoration Angel
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
Land (23)
14 Plains
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Tectonic Edge
2 Mutavault
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Eidolon of Rhetoric
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Dismember
My biggest problem with the deck is having an adequate t1 play. I feel like you almost have to be doing something on t1 in the current meta and 4 Vial + 2 Familiar gives me a 50%+ chance to see one on the play(54%) and draw(59%). Obviously, I always want to see Vial but between Familiar, Militant and to a much lesser extent Student of Warfare it all seems so meh.
You definitely get style points if this is pulled off. I don't think I'm personally brave enough to attempt this! Make it happen and then tell us about the experience!
@hugeelfboy
My top two tempting options are kitchen finks and mangara. Finks is the most balanced choice and mangara has the most desirable ability after that.
WWModern Death And Taxes (w/ Militia Bugler) (JUL '19)
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- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
How to Use Spoiler Tags
Starting Over: The Origins of the Mulligan Rule
Practical Approach to Slow Play
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 2: SWARM and TOOLBOX
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 3
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 4
These videos are by MTG Salvation Moderator Lantern!
Introduction to Tempo
Controlling Tempo
Elements of Tempo
Roadblocks to Tempo
How Not To Build A Deck - Tempo
Learn How To Sideboard, Dammit!
Mulligan's Island
The Art of the Mulligan
The Art of the Mulligan: Eight Case Studies
Fundamentals: The Mulligan
Some Mulligan Exercises
A Mulligan Is Worth Three Cards
The Mulligan Debate
Common Sense: The Art of the Mulligan
Who's The Beatdown?
3 Caves of Koilos
3 Eldrazi Temple
2 Fetid Heath
3 Godless Shrine
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Plains
3 Shambling Vent
2 Tectonic Edge
Artifacts (4):
4 Æther Vial
4 Path to Exile
Creatures (29):
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
4 Serra Avenger
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Wasteland Strangler
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Dismember
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Rest in Peace
3 Stony Silence
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Flooded Strand
6 Island
3 Polluted Delta
3 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
Creatures (16):
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stormchaser Mage
2 Gut Shot
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mutagenic Growth
3 Spell Pierce
3 Twisted Image
3 Vapor Snag
Sorceries (8):
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Blood Moon
2 Dispel
1 Forked Bolt
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Repeal
2 Roast
1 Spell Snare
2 Spellskite
1 Vapor Snag
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Copperline Gorge
5 Mountain
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
4 Wooded Foothills
Creatures (14):
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Atarka's Command
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
3 Searing Blaze
Sorceries (8):
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
2 Deflecting Palm
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Path to Exile
2 Rending Volley
3 Skullcrack
19 Forest
3 Treetop Village
Creatures (24):
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Dryad Militant
2 Dungrove Elder
4 Experiment One
4 Leatherback Baloth
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Rancor
Instants (10):
3 Aspect of Hydra
4 Vines of Vastwood
3 Dismember
2 Choke
2 Gut Shot
2 Deglamer
2 Feed the Clan
2 Oxidize
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Skylasher
1 Unravel the Æther
It's close to green/white DnTso I thought I'd share. http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=12428893 Aven Mindcensor
3 Birds of Paradise
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
3 Hushwing Gryff
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Spellskite
2 Voice of Resurgence
4 Dromoka's Command
4 Path to Exile
3 Forest
3 Gavony Township
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Plains
4 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
4 Temple Garden
1 Windswept Heath
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This is a sub-forum for the Modern W/x Death & Taxes forum.
It has a high density of experienced players and welcomed newcomers. The forum focuses on tournament results, meta preparation for larger events, new discoveries for the Death & Taxes archetypes and so much more! So why have a sub-forum then? Card evaluation is something that newer players come to the main forum for often. As much as experienced players love introducing new taxers to the deck, it sometimes prevents the main topics of discussion from reaching a conclusion.
What the sub-forum hopes to accomplish!
The idea is to express what cards have been proven thus far, which cards look promising going forward, and which metas they perform best in. This goes for main deck and sideboard options. This will allow new members of the Death & Tax community to quickly catch up with card evaluation and get directly into the main forum's discussions.
Example Evaluation.
Archetype: All [based on color viability]
Pros: [insert valid points]
Cons: [insert valid points]
Main Deck#: 2-4
Sideboard#: 1-2
Analyzed by: DeathandCatmix (Summer 2015)
The Update Schedule.
This forum will receive an official launch on Magic: Origins's release date -including the backwards catalog. It will be updated as new sets come out, cards become banned/unbanned, and as tournament results shift the meta drastically. As cards can shift in power due to bans, meta shifts, and new discoveries, cards may be re-analyzed and re-submitted again at later dates for evaluation.
How can you help?
If you have input for any cards whether new or old, directly message me with: card name, the archetype it goes in, main deck and sideboard quantities, and the pros/cons of running the aforementioned card. I will make certain you are credited for the analyzing of the mentioned card. If you have ideas to keep this sub-forum healthy and easier to use, feel free to private message me with details regarding that as well.
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Maybe "close" was too loose for comfort of language on the internet lol. I'm just acknowledging a list extremely similar to us went top 16 in Singapore. If there are cards in there that we can learn from it may help us better understand how to get maximum value in each main deck and sideboard slot. (Actually laughing at your response).
In the meantime, would you all be so kind to check the sub-thread out and give some feedback? I am really hoping this ends up being beneficial and that I'm able to get your guys support with the some of the card analysis. @mightybenno has already given me some great information to start with and I could really use some additional help!
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/developing-competitive-modern/615417-modern-death-and-taxes-main-deck-and-sideboard#c1
Thanks in advance,
-catmix
WWModern Death And Taxes (w/ Militia Bugler) (JUL '19)
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4 Flickerwisp
1 Restoration Angel
1 Stonecloaker
2 Pack Rats
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Viscera Seer
2 Dark Confidant
4 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
4 Blade Splicer
Spells (9)
4 Path to Exile
4 Æther Vial
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Eiganjo Castle
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Caves of Koilos
1 Mutavault
4 Godless Shrine
2 Isolated Chapel
4 Plains
3 Swamp
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Pack Rat
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Dismember
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Mark of Asylum
2 Spellskite
1 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
1 Kor Firewalker
2 Orzhov Pontiff
Match 1 - Bloom Titan 2-1
Game 1 - I kept a two path hand with sculler, but it I drew into nothing useful and he gets a turn 3 hivemind combo to kill me. (side in BFT, Mark of Asylum, Skite, Pact)
Game 2 - Thalia keeps him off summer bloom mana long enough for scullers to take apart his hand.
Game 3 - Arbiter + Ghost Quarter twice in a row on his bounce lands.
Match 2 - Grixis Twin 1-2
Game 1 - Long struggle in a very grindy game, but he beats down with tasigurs for the win (Board in Skite, BFT, Mark of Asylum, Pact, Dismember, Crusader)
Game 2 - Dark Confidant won this game, drew me into the paths and flickerwisps I needed to keep him off twin, while arbiter and quarters whittled down his lands.
Game 3 - Also a grindy game, but he finally got me to no cards in hand (he just blew out my aether vial with Kommand) and twins the following turn.
Match 3 - Bloom Titan 2-1
Game 1 - Arbiter + Thalia + Quarters + Sculler, easy. (side in BFT, Mark of Asylum, Skite, Pact)
Game 2 - Had a good starting plan, but he has three of his Amulets, and just goes off. I'm able to keep up but when he casts a Kozilek he draws into two primevals and I'm just toast.
Game 3 - Arbiter + Thalia + Quarters, easy.
Match 4 - Death & Taxes (Mono-white) 2-0
Game 1 - Ride my Pack Rats and Dark Confidant to victory buy burying him in card advantage. (Board in pontiff, crusader, pack rat)
Game 2 - Ride my Sword of L&S to victory.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Notes:
1. Bloom Titan is a heart wrenching matchup, but should be manageable with a decent hand. SCULLER IS SO GREAT HERE, they have no way of interacting with it and the body is very relevant at putting them on a clock. Hive Mind is the worst though. Wish we had a decent sideboard card for it, but might not be worth it.
2. Splinter Twin is hard. I really wish we'd get a silver bullet that destroys them.
3. Viscera Seer was mediocre so far. It did provide good value with Sculler, but hasn't done anything amazing so far. It also did notably smooth out a few lands to the bottom which did get me into more real cards, so I can't say it was bad. It might play better with Athreos and the new Liliana, once I get around to adding them. I'll keep it for another week to see my feelings on it.
4. Resto Angel, haven't really missed her, she's been nice when I did get her, but I was never really wanting. I'll keep it at a 1-of for now.
5. Sword of L&S - Only saw it twice, and both times against D&T, which destroyed them. Wouldn't have helped in my other matchups, but I'm keeping it in for now as I saw a lot of junk/jund/hatebears/witled abzan be played tonight for some strange reason.
6. Didn't get to see Stonecloaker, oh well.
Not sure how to evaluate him since I haven't played my newly built D&T much, but seems possibly strong as a 2x or so.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
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