I've been looking into U/B Tezz as a second Modern deck after my first love (Mono U Tron). I've been poking around the forums for a bit and created this Sultai build a week or so ago. It's been a blast so far, but there are some obvious upgrades I need to make and I'd like some input on how to tweak it.
Sultai: At first, I only wanted to splash for Glissa, the Traitor, but quickly realized the value of having Abrupt Decay as a removal option over Fatal Push, Dismember, or an additional Executioner's Capsule. Decay has been invaluable in hitting sideboard hate, be it Stony Silence or of the graveyard variety. It would be a 4 of, but I like one Capsule as a silver bullet out. Finally, Tireless Tracker came in as a way to give Tezz more animation targets and to help refill a hand that tends to dump cheap artifacts and mana rocks. Even without fetches (which is my biggest priority), he's already proven his worth - often forcing opponents to interact with him before he becomes another win con.
SideboardMy sideboard is admittedly a bit of a mess (I have Chalices so I tossed them in to help out with combo). I mostly play on MTGO, but I'll need more games to figure out which matchups are really hurting.
Upgrades: Obviously fetches, the lack of having them has already burned me a couple of times. I'd love to spring for some LotV's and/or Engineered Explosives and Ensnaring Bridge, which I imagine would replace some combination of Crane, Pithing Needle, Thirst for Knowledge and Welding Jar. As for the sideboard, definitely want Crucible of Worlds at some point.
Mana Rocks: Can't afford Mox Opal, but I'm curious about a lot of lists running Pentad Prisms. I find myself using my rocks more than 2-3 times a game, which led me to my current setup. Interested to hear thoughts on this!
Potential Changes: I love IoK, but would consider a 2/2 split with Thoughtseize after upgrading some other parts of the deck.
I'm a bit more down on Whir than most, but that's only because I don't like the idea of having to play dead cards just to guarantee a Tezz/Crane hit or fuel Improvise.
As for my artifact count, I'd like to bump it up but not at the risk of running situational cards (Welding Jar is pushing it, at least Relic cantrips). Maybe run Spellbombs over Thirst? Maybe this is something I'll just have to deal with until I can purchase Bridge/Explosives.
Anyways, excited to share this build but also to hear any suggestions or criticisms - love the discussion surrounding this deck so far.
You need critical mass of artifacts not only for tezz +1, but also for his ultimate. Being that we don't do damage throughout the game you need 8-10 artifacts out when he needs to ultimate. This isn't really a debate - more of an established deckbuilding constraint.
Yea, these established deck building constraints are more or less what I was getting at. People aren't experimenting enough outside of those constraints. Seeing as how the deck isn't really 'established' (read:winning competitive tournaments) there isn't much point in having 'established' constraints. The deck feels very stagnant, despite having so many new toys.
What part about needing a "critical mass of artifacts" to make tezzeret work is in need of experimenting with?
That is like saying that you can play a delver of secrets deck without considering a critical mass of spells...
I guess the experimenting you are suggesting is removing tezzeret? lol
Maybe you have different goals... If you goal is to make a good thopter-sword deck, or a good artifact deck then sure. But it would appear that the goal of this thread is to make a good Tezzeret AoB deck. So yes - artifact count is an established deckbuilding constraint. You need a minimum number for the planeswalker to function in the deck...
One example could be playing some number of creatures, get a few chip shots in, so that you don't need the 8-10 artifacts on board when you ULT tezz, as you suggest. It may be the case that the only way to shoe horn some creatures in is to cut the artifact count. I'm not saying that's the answer, or even suggesting that. I'm saying that having 'established constraints' on a deck that isn't putting up any results is absurd and we should all be experimenting more.
And no, I'm not suggesting an experiment of removing Tezzeret. I'm not suggesting any experiment in particular. I just love Tezz, and Thopter-sword and Whir and want to make the deck great and see it do well.
As an aside, I have actually tried a few variations without tezz, but i haven't liked them much, or had a lot of success really. Lately I'm running 2-3 tezz.
The reasoning behind pentad prism is that it is a really efficient and explosive way of abusing whir of invention. I'd imagine you'd find that most lists that are running pentad prism are also running 4 copies of whir. This is mostly because you don't need to tap the prism to get the mana, so while it can't tap for mana over and over again like a signet or talisman it gives you 3 mana on T3 if your plan is casting whir, which allows you to find a bridge on turn 3 (or sometimes play a T3 herald of anguish which also tends to be pretty good).
You need critical mass of artifacts not only for tezz +1, but also for his ultimate. Being that we don't do damage throughout the game you need 8-10 artifacts out when he needs to ultimate. This isn't really a debate - more of an established deckbuilding constraint.
Yea, these established deck building constraints are more or less what I was getting at. People aren't experimenting enough outside of those constraints. Seeing as how the deck isn't really 'established' (read:winning competitive tournaments) there isn't much point in having 'established' constraints. The deck feels very stagnant, despite having so many new toys.
What part about needing a "critical mass of artifacts" to make tezzeret work is in need of experimenting with?
That is like saying that you can play a delver of secrets deck without considering a critical mass of spells...
I guess the experimenting you are suggesting is removing tezzeret? lol
Maybe you have different goals... If you goal is to make a good thopter-sword deck, or a good artifact deck then sure. But it would appear that the goal of this thread is to make a good Tezzeret AoB deck. So yes - artifact count is an established deckbuilding constraint. You need a minimum number for the planeswalker to function in the deck...
One example could be playing some number of creatures, get a few chip shots in, so that you don't need the 8-10 artifacts on board when you ULT tezz, as you suggest. It may be the case that the only way to shoe horn some creatures in is to cut the artifact count. I'm not saying that's the answer, or even suggesting that. I'm saying that having 'established constraints' on a deck that isn't putting up any results is absurd and we should all be experimenting more.
And no, I'm not suggesting an experiment of removing Tezzeret. I'm not suggesting any experiment in particular. I just love Tezz, and Thopter-sword and Whir and want to make the deck great and see it do well.
As an aside, I have actually tried a few variations without tezz, but i haven't liked them much, or had a lot of success really. Lately I'm running 2-3 tezz.
So you are experimenting with removing artifacts in your Tezzeret deck then?
That's fine and all, but there is a minimum that sort of helps the individual card (Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas) actually work. Otherwise why is he in the deck? Makes no sense.
I think what you mean to argue is that you can build without whir, bridge, thopter sword, etc...
But if you are using tezzeret, there is a minimum threshold of artifacts required in the deck to make the individual card worth including. This isn't up for debate - it's simple probability. Perhaps why the deck's development is stagnating is because brewers are neglecting simple deck ratios in their construction
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Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
So you are experimenting with removing artifacts in your Tezzeret deck then?
That's fine and all, but there is a minimum that sort of helps the individual card (Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas) actually work. Otherwise why is he in the deck? Makes no sense.
I think what you mean to argue is that you can build without whir, bridge, thopter sword, etc...
But if you are using tezzeret, there is a minimum threshold of artifacts required in the deck to make the individual card worth including. This isn't up for debate - it's simple probability. Perhaps why the deck's development is stagnating is because brewers are neglecting simple deck ratios in their construction
I think you're missing the point. The only thing I'm arguing for is that saying things like 'it isn't up for debate' is nonsense for a deck that isn't putting up results. What makes no sense is making cards, ratios, or any other constraint sacred.
Another hypothetical example. Tezz +1 could be powerful in a deck with fewer artifacts if we choose not to run shuffle effects. Even if you whiff on the +1, you are still 5 cards closer to your key card. This was the point of running Glint-Nest Crane in standard Aetherworks Marvel decks at the pro tour even though they only ran like 7-9 artifacts. Luckily in modern we can run many more than that before resorting to 'fluff' but it's certainly a viable strategy. A strategy that pros came up with, actually.
Again, I'm not advocating the position above. Just stating that having sacred constraints isn't helpful to progress the deck.
This is my first time on this forum, but I've been playing this deck independently for a while now, I got 24th at the SCG Baltimore open, and I won TCG Delaware states a few days ago. The deck is competitive as is, I strongly believe that, it's just knowledge of the metagame and familiarity with your deck that's holding it back, I think with practice most games are winnable if you play them right.
This is my first time on this forum, but I've been playing this deck independently for a while now, I got 24th at the SCG Baltimore open, and I won TCG Delaware states a few days ago. The deck is competitive as is, I strongly believe that, it's just knowledge of the metagame and familiarity with your deck that's holding it back, I think with practice most games are winnable if you play them right.
I completely agree with you. Can you please share your list?
Thanks
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Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Whir is probably the best card in the deck, there are just very few draws where it is not what you want, whether you're getting a bridge, a combo piece, or some situational artifact. It's amazing with pentad prism but as long as you fetch with UUU in mind it's almost always a very good card. Monastery siege certainly seems unique, I can see the draw value and anti removal aspect, however it seems like a stickier, but less effective Padeem, since padeem also draws and gives hexproof, maybe try him as well, but if it's working for you don't fix what isn't broken. Tezz ultimate usually only ends the game if you've already shut them down with a bridge or whatnot, so if you're having troubling ulting Tezz for an early kill I'd say that's par for the course and not really a sign of anything being wrong.
I played a couple Nahiri control decks at Baltimore and I don't think I dropped a game it's just a good match up, sure bridge is largely dead, but you have needle for their walkers, whir demands a counter, and Thopter/sword is probably the best grinding engine in modern, someone ulted nahiri against me and I saced 5 thopters, and a sword to erma and took the hit going to 10, and I still ground them out. I played faeries, and just got a bridge down and their own blossom killed them. I play chalice main deck and whenever someone goes turn 1 serum visions I know it's good against them, delver is a good match up for this reason. If I see a white deck I expect stoney silence and board out the combo and bring in discard and Ashiok. Honestly no match ups feel unwinnable besides Valakut, you just don't interact with them on a favorable axis and they kill you faster. Besides that there is a lot of play, and you just need to know what your role is within the game.
I'm also new here but I've been following along lately and just took my first swing at the deck yesterday. It's a blast to play and turns out to be quite similar to your list minus cranes and plus main deck IoK and Thoughtseize.
Few questions for you:
Relic over spellbomb. Why?
One opal and 22 land. Enough?
Two bridge and four Whir to find them and yet still a Damnation... Bridges aren't enough?
Darksteel citadels over GQ, I was starting with them but got theoretically scared of Tron. Do you have a tough time there?
For everyone: is it normal to board out the combo in the face of stony silence? What about prisms and such? I've played a total of four matches and already played against it twice (beat it once due to bridge and torper orb) but it seems really rough.
Relic is better early as it can keep the graveyard under control, the benefit of spellbomb only hitting their graveyard has never been important, sword obviously is good at not being stuck in the graveyard, and I usually play with academy ruin in mind, I feel like the ability to make goyfs irrelevant outweighs the relevance of spellbomb's benefits. I still keep one in the side though, rather than the 2nd relic.
One opal, 4 prisms, and 22 lands has always proven to be efficient, the second opal never felt relevant to me as decent as opal is we don't explode onto the board the way affinity does, though opal still is no where near bad.I have cast pentad's for 1 counter which isn't great but so goes it.
Damnation is like a get out of jail free card for times when you can't empty your hand fast enough for bridge, The hail merry hope of a single damnation is something I like, and it's never been bad in my opener while bridge has been so I like to keep a one of it around.
I have heard people say tron is a bad match up, and I played Eldrazi tron 3 times at states, GB tron once, and regular old tron once. Of these GB is the worst (Worldbreaker can exile artifacts Who knew?) Besides that though, I think whir for needle is our strongest axis here whirring for needle in response to karn, Ugin, or O-stone (Or End bringer/ Walking Ballista) is pretty good and won me 2 of my games, and chalice on 1 seems bad against tron, but between 8 chromatic whatevers, maps, and ancient stirrings shutting down 16 cards for 2 mana is pretty efficient plus nature's claim post board. Really it can go either way, but I've had a good track record, 4-1, I still keep the 2nd GQ in the side, because tron is not something to be taken lightly.
Whir has pretty much always been amazing for me so I haven't really considered it, it's just always the card I want whether I'm behind, stabilized, or trying to finish. I have played with the number of cranes and they're just such decent early plays that I can't see anything else doing what they do, our early game is so bad and having a 1/3 chumper who cycles itself is kind of what I'm in the market for, I see how it and whir appear to occupy the same space but I think one is your basic decent-value low impact early play while the other is your gas spell. What are you playing in the slots? as the cards I have tried replacing crane with have never felt amazing. Same goes for whir.
I have played 2 copies of lilly, and having looked at the thread it seems like you guys have discussed this recently. Lilly did a good job of managing the board and running my opponent out of gas but then we would go into top deck mode and I would just get beaten by their far superior draws, abrupt decays, bolts, ulamog, and what have you, so ultimately I cut her because while she was never super "bad" herself, it just seemed like the deck was trying to do too many things and thus watering down the power of the combo, and Tezz. I have tried things like trading post, herald of anguish, Wurmcoil engine, batterskull, and Mycosynth lattice (That was spicy) and I have found myself never loving any of the cards anywhere except for in extreme niche situations. So I value the consistency of just straight whirs, and cranes higher than some players because I have had lilly be sub optimal, but I can always expect these other cards to perform at the same level.
Chalice used to be my jam but I feel I am stronger when I am proactive. Taking T2 off to drop a chalice on 1 is too rough. Going T1 >swamp > Thoughtseize/Inq/Push T2 >Land > talisman > Inq/Thoughtseize/push is a strong play on your own too, often leaving your opponent with no gas and you with a bird or tezz or fair or something to search.
Relic is better early as it can keep the graveyard under control, the benefit of spellbomb only hitting their graveyard has never been important, sword obviously is good at not being stuck in the graveyard, and I usually play with academy ruin in mind, I feel like the ability to make goyfs irrelevant outweighs the relevance of spellbomb's benefits. I still keep one in the side though, rather than the 2nd relic.
One opal, 4 prisms, and 22 lands has always proven to be efficient, the second opal never felt relevant to me as decent as opal is we don't explode onto the board the way affinity does, though opal still is no where near bad.I have cast pentad's for 1 counter which isn't great but so goes it.
Damnation is like a get out of jail free card for times when you can't empty your hand fast enough for bridge, The hail merry hope of a single damnation is something I like, and it's never been bad in my opener while bridge has been so I like to keep a one of it around.
I have heard people say tron is a bad match up, and I played Eldrazi tron 3 times at states, GB tron once, and regular old tron once. Of these GB is the worst (Worldbreaker can exile artifacts Who knew?) Besides that though, I think whir for needle is our strongest axis here whirring for needle in response to karn, Ugin, or O-stone (Or End bringer/ Walking Ballista) is pretty good and won me 2 of my games, and chalice on 1 seems bad against tron, but between 8 chromatic whatevers, maps, and ancient stirrings shutting down 16 cards for 2 mana is pretty efficient plus nature's claim post board. Really it can go either way, but I've had a good track record, 4-1, I still keep the 2nd GQ in the side, because tron is not something to be taken lightly.
The traditional tron matchup and especially U-Tron is god-awful, nearly auto-lose. However, I've found the eldrazi tron and colorless tron matchup to be reasonable. Less Karns and little to no O-stones. I dropped darksteel citadels in favor of 4 GQ and run crucible purely for these matchups, and it also doubles against titan/shift with some free wins against 3 color decks. Death's shadow decks are very weak to land destruction. Mox opal is high variance; it's either amazing or bad. I could see running 3-4 and going full explosion lock being good (4 chalice, 4 whir, 3 bridge, 3/4 thopter combo). I'm at 2 and might drop to 1 too.
I don't understand your hurkyl's recall in the SB as affinity is a surprisingly good matchup for me, and I don't even run cranes (4 push). What else is it for?
Tiny Octopus, I played a list similar to yours at states, and was having a good day before running into back to back RG tron. Chalice main, ashiok side, time sieve main, 4 whir being the best card in the deck. No cranes though. I've since ported the deck to mtgo and have been playing in the 5 match leauges a bunch. Haven't 5-0 yet, but several 4-1's. The deck really feels almost there.
My current thoughts: One, I now believe 3-4 mishra's baubles are where I want to be (unfortunately because of the price). They thin the deck, act as moxes for whir, add to the artifact count, are free fodder for time sieve, give you information on turn one, help you get under a bridge. Two, I really don't like prism. I want to try a 4-whir, no prism, no talisman build and see how it goes. 2 mox opals probably, cause they don't cost tempo loss. Ramping is nice sometimes, but I'd almost always rather cast a thopter foundry or collective brutality turn two. And three, my limited testing with cryptic command has been decent, not great. Right now I'm at 1 main, 1 side. It's really nice bridge insurance, as you can tap down their army when they finally deal with bridge, bounce it to your hand, then replay it.
Made T8 at a modern tournament yesterday. Everything went fine except against storm.
G1
0-2 Death Shadow Grixis
Like Death Shadow Jund but with snapcasters and tasigurs and thoughtscours. Very efficient and quick. Hit each other up with discard, kill some of his guys, block Tasigur with bridge but cannot fatal push him. He ens up beating me the first game after a battle. The second is quicker.
2-0 Bant eldrazi
Fair creature decks cannot beat me
2-0 Boggles
Little surprised to see boggles. First game I have an inquisition a spellskite and a liliana so boggles is pretty sad. Game 2 is more of the same, I even board in chalices but do not need them. I don't think I have ever dropped a game vs boggles with this deck.
2-0 UW flash control
pretty sweet deck. Restoration angels, V Cliques, Snapcasters, Spell quellers, detention spheres, aether vial, flickerwisp . All that good stuff (leyline of sanctity G2.). Goo thing I brought 2 torpor orbs sideboard. G1 he gets me to 1 life G2 I beat him quickly. Ballista is mean vs all these T1 critters.
0-2 UR storm
I place him on jeskai G1 and he goes off T3. G2 I don't get enough disruption in to beat him quick enough.
Still make T8
Play UR storm again. 2-1. He goes off T3 with gifts. very awful.
My decklist is unchanged from above with a sideboard of:
2 torpor orb
2 surgical extraction
2 thoughtseize
2 pithing needle
1 witchbane orb
1 Damnation
2 chalice of the void
1 fatal push
1 inquisition of kozilek
1 ethersworn canonist
I'm messing around with all sorts of variants of my current deck. One of them happens to be a sort of BUG Tezzeret control. While it doesn't run the traditional cards of the deck, I thought this take on it might be appreciated here.
This is more of a ramp / control deck rather than a toolbox style. I have been looking into how I wanted to make a Tezzeret deck for the Dice Factory shell. I think the thopter / bridge toolbox plan is better utilized by Tezzeret the Seeker with the help of fast mana and Whir of Invention.
Here is the list I am currently playing/testing on MTGO:
I have been playing many different versions of this Artifact style of ramp deck. I hope this version is good against the midrange creature decks like Death's Shadow, Abzan, Grixis, and Bant Eldrazi. If you are curious about the deck feel free to reply here or check out the newly written primer for Dice Factory.
I have been playing JUND for about 2 years now and taken it to a few decent local tournaments and a GP where i went 6-3.
I am just learning competitive MTG and i am ready to start my own journey on this amazing tezzeret deck goal.
The goal: To make this a T1 deck and win a GP with it.
So far:
Ok so i built the deck 3 weeks ago and ive been playing on weekday nights with it and winning most of them but i can tell. this deck needs a lot of work...
The list i was running has been changing every day but so far i have narrowed it down to 2 different lists. The first one is a Bridge list that i think may be good just needing a bit of fine tunning
The second is a creature based list which im still experimenting with.
I am new to posting decks so i hope the format works but i will continually update this with card choices and changes as we go.
The next step is to take it to a 30+ person GPT and win with it. Then i will know that this dream is a possibility
Ok well so i have attended 4 Nights with the deck and play tested against 2 different decks aside from that. The list i used for those was very similar but without the 5 cmc tezz and visions and thirsts instead of hand hate.
The results were:
2-2
4-0
3-0-1
2-0-2
The decks i faced were
Merfolk
Tron
Aggro
Affinity
Burn
Jund
BW tokens
CoCo
Storm
Maybe a few others that i have forgotten.
THIS deck has serious potential. There is NOTHING like the feeling of responding to 40 grapeshot triggers on stack with a witchbane orb at instant speed...
I like what you're doing here. For the lists they look good, but a little on the high side in terms of cmc. The first list seems like it'll have a number of clogged hands with so many walkers and the full 4 Whirs. Either way I look forward to seeing some results and thoughts.
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I've been looking into U/B Tezz as a second Modern deck after my first love (Mono U Tron). I've been poking around the forums for a bit and created this Sultai build a week or so ago. It's been a blast so far, but there are some obvious upgrades I need to make and I'd like some input on how to tweak it.
First the list:
4 Glint-Nest Crane
2 Spellskite
2 Glissa, the Traitor
2 Tireless Tracker
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Spells (11)
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Whir of Invention
Artifacts (13)
1 Welding Jar
1 Executioner's Capsule
1 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Golgari Signet
2 Sword of the Meek
2 Talisman of Dominance
3 Thopter Foundry
1 Academy Ruins
4 Botanical Sanctum
2 Breeding Pool
4 Darkslick Shores
3 Darksteel Citadel
1 Forest
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Island
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Swamp
4 Watery Grave
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Welding Jar
2 Nature's Claim
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Dragon's Claw
2 Negate
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Time Sieve
1 Trading Post
Thoughts on some of the choices:
Anyways, excited to share this build but also to hear any suggestions or criticisms - love the discussion surrounding this deck so far.
One example could be playing some number of creatures, get a few chip shots in, so that you don't need the 8-10 artifacts on board when you ULT tezz, as you suggest. It may be the case that the only way to shoe horn some creatures in is to cut the artifact count. I'm not saying that's the answer, or even suggesting that. I'm saying that having 'established constraints' on a deck that isn't putting up any results is absurd and we should all be experimenting more.
And no, I'm not suggesting an experiment of removing Tezzeret. I'm not suggesting any experiment in particular. I just love Tezz, and Thopter-sword and Whir and want to make the deck great and see it do well.
As an aside, I have actually tried a few variations without tezz, but i haven't liked them much, or had a lot of success really. Lately I'm running 2-3 tezz.
So you are experimenting with removing artifacts in your Tezzeret deck then?
That's fine and all, but there is a minimum that sort of helps the individual card (Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas) actually work. Otherwise why is he in the deck? Makes no sense.
I think what you mean to argue is that you can build without whir, bridge, thopter sword, etc...
But if you are using tezzeret, there is a minimum threshold of artifacts required in the deck to make the individual card worth including. This isn't up for debate - it's simple probability. Perhaps why the deck's development is stagnating is because brewers are neglecting simple deck ratios in their construction
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
I think you're missing the point. The only thing I'm arguing for is that saying things like 'it isn't up for debate' is nonsense for a deck that isn't putting up results. What makes no sense is making cards, ratios, or any other constraint sacred.
Another hypothetical example. Tezz +1 could be powerful in a deck with fewer artifacts if we choose not to run shuffle effects. Even if you whiff on the +1, you are still 5 cards closer to your key card. This was the point of running Glint-Nest Crane in standard Aetherworks Marvel decks at the pro tour even though they only ran like 7-9 artifacts. Luckily in modern we can run many more than that before resorting to 'fluff' but it's certainly a viable strategy. A strategy that pros came up with, actually.
Again, I'm not advocating the position above. Just stating that having sacred constraints isn't helpful to progress the deck.
I completely agree with you. Can you please share your list?
Thanks
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
I guess if anyone has any questions about card choices, or anything I'd be happy to answer.
I'm also new here but I've been following along lately and just took my first swing at the deck yesterday. It's a blast to play and turns out to be quite similar to your list minus cranes and plus main deck IoK and Thoughtseize.
Few questions for you:
Relic over spellbomb. Why?
One opal and 22 land. Enough?
Two bridge and four Whir to find them and yet still a Damnation... Bridges aren't enough?
Darksteel citadels over GQ, I was starting with them but got theoretically scared of Tron. Do you have a tough time there?
For everyone: is it normal to board out the combo in the face of stony silence? What about prisms and such? I've played a total of four matches and already played against it twice (beat it once due to bridge and torper orb) but it seems really rough.
One opal, 4 prisms, and 22 lands has always proven to be efficient, the second opal never felt relevant to me as decent as opal is we don't explode onto the board the way affinity does, though opal still is no where near bad.I have cast pentad's for 1 counter which isn't great but so goes it.
Damnation is like a get out of jail free card for times when you can't empty your hand fast enough for bridge, The hail merry hope of a single damnation is something I like, and it's never been bad in my opener while bridge has been so I like to keep a one of it around.
I have heard people say tron is a bad match up, and I played Eldrazi tron 3 times at states, GB tron once, and regular old tron once. Of these GB is the worst (Worldbreaker can exile artifacts Who knew?) Besides that though, I think whir for needle is our strongest axis here whirring for needle in response to karn, Ugin, or O-stone (Or End bringer/ Walking Ballista) is pretty good and won me 2 of my games, and chalice on 1 seems bad against tron, but between 8 chromatic whatevers, maps, and ancient stirrings shutting down 16 cards for 2 mana is pretty efficient plus nature's claim post board. Really it can go either way, but I've had a good track record, 4-1, I still keep the 2nd GQ in the side, because tron is not something to be taken lightly.
I have played 2 copies of lilly, and having looked at the thread it seems like you guys have discussed this recently. Lilly did a good job of managing the board and running my opponent out of gas but then we would go into top deck mode and I would just get beaten by their far superior draws, abrupt decays, bolts, ulamog, and what have you, so ultimately I cut her because while she was never super "bad" herself, it just seemed like the deck was trying to do too many things and thus watering down the power of the combo, and Tezz. I have tried things like trading post, herald of anguish, Wurmcoil engine, batterskull, and Mycosynth lattice (That was spicy) and I have found myself never loving any of the cards anywhere except for in extreme niche situations. So I value the consistency of just straight whirs, and cranes higher than some players because I have had lilly be sub optimal, but I can always expect these other cards to perform at the same level.
The traditional tron matchup and especially U-Tron is god-awful, nearly auto-lose. However, I've found the eldrazi tron and colorless tron matchup to be reasonable. Less Karns and little to no O-stones. I dropped darksteel citadels in favor of 4 GQ and run crucible purely for these matchups, and it also doubles against titan/shift with some free wins against 3 color decks. Death's shadow decks are very weak to land destruction. Mox opal is high variance; it's either amazing or bad. I could see running 3-4 and going full explosion lock being good (4 chalice, 4 whir, 3 bridge, 3/4 thopter combo). I'm at 2 and might drop to 1 too.
I don't understand your hurkyl's recall in the SB as affinity is a surprisingly good matchup for me, and I don't even run cranes (4 push). What else is it for?
My current thoughts: One, I now believe 3-4 mishra's baubles are where I want to be (unfortunately because of the price). They thin the deck, act as moxes for whir, add to the artifact count, are free fodder for time sieve, give you information on turn one, help you get under a bridge. Two, I really don't like prism. I want to try a 4-whir, no prism, no talisman build and see how it goes. 2 mox opals probably, cause they don't cost tempo loss. Ramping is nice sometimes, but I'd almost always rather cast a thopter foundry or collective brutality turn two. And three, my limited testing with cryptic command has been decent, not great. Right now I'm at 1 main, 1 side. It's really nice bridge insurance, as you can tap down their army when they finally deal with bridge, bounce it to your hand, then replay it.
G1
0-2 Death Shadow Grixis
Like Death Shadow Jund but with snapcasters and tasigurs and thoughtscours. Very efficient and quick. Hit each other up with discard, kill some of his guys, block Tasigur with bridge but cannot fatal push him. He ens up beating me the first game after a battle. The second is quicker.
2-0 Bant eldrazi
Fair creature decks cannot beat me
2-0 Boggles
Little surprised to see boggles. First game I have an inquisition a spellskite and a liliana so boggles is pretty sad. Game 2 is more of the same, I even board in chalices but do not need them. I don't think I have ever dropped a game vs boggles with this deck.
2-0 UW flash control
pretty sweet deck. Restoration angels, V Cliques, Snapcasters, Spell quellers, detention spheres, aether vial, flickerwisp . All that good stuff (leyline of sanctity G2.). Goo thing I brought 2 torpor orbs sideboard. G1 he gets me to 1 life G2 I beat him quickly. Ballista is mean vs all these T1 critters.
0-2 UR storm
I place him on jeskai G1 and he goes off T3. G2 I don't get enough disruption in to beat him quick enough.
Still make T8
Play UR storm again. 2-1. He goes off T3 with gifts. very awful.
My decklist is unchanged from above with a sideboard of:
2 torpor orb
2 surgical extraction
2 thoughtseize
2 pithing needle
1 witchbane orb
1 Damnation
2 chalice of the void
1 fatal push
1 inquisition of kozilek
1 ethersworn canonist
This is more of a ramp / control deck rather than a toolbox style. I have been looking into how I wanted to make a Tezzeret deck for the Dice Factory shell. I think the thopter / bridge toolbox plan is better utilized by Tezzeret the Seeker with the help of fast mana and Whir of Invention.
Here is the list I am currently playing/testing on MTGO:
4 Glimmervoid
3 Spire of Industry
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Blooming Marsh
2 Inventors' Fair
Artifacts 16
4 Astral Cornucopia
3 Everflowing Chalice
4 Surge Node
3 Voltaic Key
1 Lux Cannon
1 Batterskull
4 Coretapper
2 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Glissa, the Traitor
1 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
Spells 12
4 Ancient Stirrings
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Fatal Push
4 Tezzeret's Gambit
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
1 Glissa, the Traitor
1 Sadistic Sacrament
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
2 Fatal Push
1 Abrupt Decay
4 Nature's Claim
I have been playing many different versions of this Artifact style of ramp deck. I hope this version is good against the midrange creature decks like Death's Shadow, Abzan, Grixis, and Bant Eldrazi. If you are curious about the deck feel free to reply here or check out the newly written primer for Dice Factory.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/770966-surge-modern-dice-factory
Modern
xWBAffinityBWx
BBBVampiresBBB
BURGDice FactoryGRUB
Check out the Primer!
Ok, Where to begin!
I have been playing JUND for about 2 years now and taken it to a few decent local tournaments and a GP where i went 6-3.
I am just learning competitive MTG and i am ready to start my own journey on this amazing tezzeret deck goal.
The goal: To make this a T1 deck and win a GP with it.
So far:
Ok so i built the deck 3 weeks ago and ive been playing on weekday nights with it and winning most of them but i can tell. this deck needs a lot of work...
The list i was running has been changing every day but so far i have narrowed it down to 2 different lists. The first one is a Bridge list that i think may be good just needing a bit of fine tunning
The second is a creature based list which im still experimenting with.
I am new to posting decks so i hope the format works but i will continually update this with card choices and changes as we go.
The next step is to take it to a 30+ person GPT and win with it. Then i will know that this dream is a possibility
So what are your opinions?
1x Spellskite
Land
1x Academy Ruins
1x Breeding Pool
1x Sunken Ruins
1x Swamp
3x Darkslick Shores
2x Darksteel Citadel
4x Polluted Delta
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Inventors' Fair
3x Island
2x Misty Rainforest
1x Overgrown Tomb
2x Watery Grave
Planeswalkers
2x Liliana of the Veil
4x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1x Tezzeret the Seeker
4x Fatal Push
2x Collective Brutality
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Thoughtseize
4x Whir of Invention
Artifacts
2x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Sword of the Meek
2x Thopter Foundry
1x Welding Jar
2x Mox Opal
1x Nihil Spellbomb
4x Pentad Prism
1x Pithing Needle
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Chalice of the Void
1x Collective Brutality
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Damnation
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Padeem, Consul of Innovation
1x Pithing Needle
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Time Sieve
1x Witchbane Orb
And the theory crafting deck:
1x Spellskite
1x Batterskull
1x Wurmcoil Engine
Land
1x Academy Ruins
1x Breeding Pool
3x Darkslick Shores
2x Darksteel Citadel
2x Watery Grave
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Inventors' Fair
3x Island
2x Misty Rainforest
1x Overgrown Tomb
4x Polluted Delta
1x Sunken Ruins
1x Swamp
2x Liliana of the Veil
1x Tezzeret the Seeker
4x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Artifacts
2x Mox Opal
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Pithing Needle
1x Welding Jar
2x Sword of the Meek
4x Talisman of Dominance
2x Thopter Foundry
Instant / Sorcery
4x Fatal Push
4x Whir of Invention
1x Damnation
3x Serum Visions
2x Thirst for Knowledge
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Chalice of the Void
1x Collective Brutality
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Damnation
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Padeem, Consul of Innovation
1x Pithing Needle
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Time Sieve
1x Witchbane Orb
1st UPDATE
The results were:
2-2
4-0
3-0-1
2-0-2
The decks i faced were
Merfolk
Tron
Aggro
Affinity
Burn
Jund
BW tokens
CoCo
Storm
Maybe a few others that i have forgotten.
THIS deck has serious potential. There is NOTHING like the feeling of responding to 40 grapeshot triggers on stack with a witchbane orb at instant speed...