Since we play a ton of permanents that opponents will want to destroy, and that we chump all day with Cranes, Skite and Tokens, and also Tezz will be attacked, I guess we don't need 4 fetchalnds to make this card work. It's easily a 2-of instead of the crappy removal spells players used to play.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
To be honest there are way more things to kill in Modern at 1-2CMC than 3-4 CMC so I would not go too crazy trying to ensure revolt is up. Your normal fetch count, ghost quarters, thopter foundries, and just suicide attacking will all work in most situations where you need it.
I haven't been playing any creature removal cards personally besides the flexible 2x brutality 3x liliana. Not sure how many of these the deck would want and what configuration of MD/SB. Crane blocks a lot of small stuff, inquisition hits some of it, etc.
I'm increasingly happy with 2x echoing truth MD though. Synergizes nicely with discard while being an out to all kinds of crazy things. Earlier today I bounced a nevermore (whut) in order to get a tezzeret resolved :S. Quite nice vs lingering souls too when they try to pound down our planeswalkers before bridge is up.
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
So i'm just gonna drop this here and walk away... Seems like if Inventors' Fair wasn't enough, all your dreams just came true.
seems pretty high costing even with the improvise ability. uuu is going to be pretty hard to cast. its a lot of hassle to fetch a bridge/silver bullet. i'd rather play trinket mage.
That is just wrong, this card is ridiculously powerful. I will be playing 4x and building around it.
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U/B Tezzeret Control
Sultai Midrange
Anything Innovative
That is just wrong, this card is ridiculously powerful. I will be playing 4x and building around it.
building around it is the key thing here. I do not think it slots very easily into existing builds which are heavy black and would struggle to produce UUU consistently. Its not as simple as modifying the lands - youll probably need to chop out some t1 discard and lilianas for consistency or shave citadels - and youll want more silver bullets...
strong card no doubt. requires almost a whole new deck brew tho.
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
It really means another approach then. Vendilion Clique isn't played in the SB anymore because UU is too hard to get. This tutor fits in U-Tron, but in a Tezz deck ? A bit of work is needed to get there. ^^
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
Personally, FP is naturally taking the slots of removal spells I had in my list.
It almost makes Capsule obsolete, since it doesn't help killing tas, Angler, Grisel, and from there, I don't see many 5+ cmc creatures we need to deal with besides Elesh, Iona and Eldrazis. Yahenni's Expertise or another Aether Revolt card could make the cut over a Skite or a Brutality if ever it fits what I need.
Well, timing probably sucks since everyone's going to be hyped about spoilers this week - esp with so much potential in Improvise for this deck and then random amazing cards like fatal push popping up. But nonetheless after a few days of online testing here's where my straight UB list is at. I imagine the only thing kind of remarkable is 2x echoing truth as a catch all and 3x bauble. After trying various 1-of bullets in those spots I got sick of drawing irrelevant welding jars and nihil spellbombs and just went for baubles. They work well with bridge and give me something more to hit with crane/tez when there's nothing I actually want. The number of times I've had to take an extra sword or bridge with crane/tez is uncomfortably high.
Fatal Push can replace all the removal we packed before and makes the Chalice=1 plan not as good G1 as it was before. I think I will play more discard and fatal push maindeck and go into chalices G2 against certain decks. Fatal Push is going to be great. Whir of innovation does a thing we are already solid at (finding the artifact you need) for a very difficult cost (UUU) and the space of a card -Our other search enables also do other work (Tezz wins, Glint Crane blocks, Inventor's Fair gains life). I am not a fan of that card in Modern.
I am super happy we got 1 mega playable that shores up a lot of matchups.
I disagree that whir is unplayable. I think it's quite playable. But in a very different build of the deck. I think I build with whir is meant to play more control with silver bullets.
You're comparing chord of calling to lead the stampead and garruk. There both very different cards for different situations. I think whir has a place in this deck, just not in its current itteration
Currently I'm running 2 Go for the Throat and 2 Smother. After talking w/ a friend, it seems like a really good plan to go to 4 Fatal Push instead of the others. Really excited for that card. Fixes some turns 2-3 curve issues too and lowers the curve overall. Most creatures that create problems for this deck are creatures you see in the early-game anyways like goyf or eidolon, especially if you're on the Ensnaring Bridge plan too. Seems like it's going to do some really good things for the deck.
I like this approach to the list, but I think 21 CMC 2 cards is a little too much. I would suggest cutting some cards for some Mishra's Bauble (that have a great sinergy with Fatal Push and fetchlands, btw). I, at least, would cut 1 Sword, 1 Foundry and 1 Talisman.
I don't know mate, I've been playing a worse removal package with even more 2-drops in the 60 and it's been fine over the last 3 months. I would not cut the Thopter combo, that's the primary wincon and it helps triggering Revolt. A Talisman or 2 could go on the other hand. I play 4 + 4 Underground Rivers specifically for TKS in the SB. This was my latter approach to fight Tron so this is where I have the least reps. If I cut Rivers and some Talismans, I could play 4 fetchlands and have a better manabase for the main deck.
I'm glad you appreciate my take on this anyway !
@Netter : Time Sieve has been debated and I think (but, anyone feel free to react) it was overall considered as winmore, and completely useless alone. Too cute. Fatal Push is an auto 4-of in the deck, so I would suggest you to cut a Capsule to make room. There's 10 creatures that you can't kill with it in the format and, either you stop them with Bridge, or you discard them. Whir of Invention requires a very different build and needs a significant target. Reshape and the like have been dismissed by most if not all players here, and are rarely in lists online (not to say never). To me it makes no sense in a Bridge build as it's been discussed in this thread. Either you make big mana like U-Tron and search for a finisher, or you make use of Whir in a way that has not been introduced in this thread yet (like searching for Lotus Bloom and combo).
I think the colorless land that becomes a city of brass/mana confluence if you control an artifact will do fine instead of glimmervoid. I have had the downside come up a few times (but always in games I was down already, it was just extra icing on the *****cake so to say), and I use it as a colorless land 80% of the time regardless. Worth testing.
@headminerve technically it is. The new land gets you any color which is a huge boon for decks wanting to do more than 2 colors. Don't underestimate that. It also allows you to do 4-5 colors on engineered explosives easily. Not saying it's the best land to use as the life loss is a real issue but more access to play whatever you want is something I'll always welcome.
It's lands like this that make me glad I have an eldrazi tezz build. This set is shaping up to be friggen awesome
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Current Decks:
Modern: BG eldrazi midrange BWG Abzan value evolution BUG BUG Midrange
Comparing Whir to Reshape isn't really a good way to look at it. Whir doesn't need you to sacrifice anything (other than your Mana base) and is instant speed.
I agree with those saying it is powerful, but needs a significantly different deck. Because it's an instant, and the new 1cmc removal spell is also an instant, it could allow for a new type of combo deck. We don't usually see combos at instant speed, so combining Thopter/sword with removal and counter magic is very intriguing to me. Almost makes me want to put the tezz plan on the back burner, dropping his numbers a bit. Almost.
Absolutely not. The new land is a way for us to hit 3 colors and still get 22+ sources for Whir of Invention. We can start thinking about BUUUG manabases now for example. BUUUG
Just an example but the numbers really do line up now. This could be huge as well.
22 blue sources for whir
12 green sources for abrupt decay, maelstrom pulse, sideboard cards
19 black sources (12 on turn one for discard or push)
This can be tinkered with of course but it look pretty freaking great. All this incentivizes us to play a couple more 1 drop artifacts though. Maybe up relic of progenitus to 3. I really like the card anyways for disruption/cantripping/flat-out beating some decks.
All this could be done for esper as well. Such an exciting spoiler season for us.
Might be sweet G2 out of the sideboard when they expect an ensnaring bridge game, but honestly, 3 mana (and a card) to make a single 5/5 out of something isn't something we're that interested in if we're playing Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas -since he is the source of that repeatable effect (+others on the same card).
Going to say that Standard BU artifacts will be sweet as hell though.
MTG Brewmaster - The fastest deck builder around (Please PM me with comments or problems!)
Modern: Tezzeret
???
Legacy:
Imperial Painter aka. Strawberry Shortcake
Tezzeret, aka. Dack in Black
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I haven't been playing any creature removal cards personally besides the flexible 2x brutality 3x liliana. Not sure how many of these the deck would want and what configuration of MD/SB. Crane blocks a lot of small stuff, inquisition hits some of it, etc.
I'm increasingly happy with 2x echoing truth MD though. Synergizes nicely with discard while being an out to all kinds of crazy things. Earlier today I bounced a nevermore (whut) in order to get a tezzeret resolved :S. Quite nice vs lingering souls too when they try to pound down our planeswalkers before bridge is up.
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
That is just wrong, this card is ridiculously powerful. I will be playing 4x and building around it.
Sultai Midrange
Anything Innovative
building around it is the key thing here. I do not think it slots very easily into existing builds which are heavy black and would struggle to produce UUU consistently. Its not as simple as modifying the lands - youll probably need to chop out some t1 discard and lilianas for consistency or shave citadels - and youll want more silver bullets...
strong card no doubt. requires almost a whole new deck brew tho.
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
4 Polluted Delta
4 Darkslick Shores
3 Watery Grave
2 Darksteel Citadel
1 Flooded Strand
4 Island
1 Swamp
1 Inventors Fair
3 Ghost Quarter
1 Sunken Ruins
Creatures / Walkers:
3 Glint-Nest Crane
1 Hangarback Walker
1 Spellskite
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Fatal Push
2 Collective Brutality
2 Thoughtseize
3 Whir of Invention
Artifacts:
4 Talisman of Dominance
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Thopter Foundry
2 Sword of the Meek
1 Mox Opal
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Executioner's Capsule
1 Whir of Invention
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Thopter Spy Network
1 Welding Jar
1 Filigree Familiar
1 Countersquall
1 Collective Brutality
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Mindlock Orb
1 Pithing Needle
1 Witchbane Orb
1 Sun Droplet
1 Nihil Spellbomb
In Summary:
22 Artifacts main deck
17 blue lands + 4 Talisman + 1 Mox Opal = 22 blue sources + Ghost Quarter/Darksteel interaction
Frank Karsten recommends 22 for UUU on turn three. This might be too much, might be too little. Hard to tell but this look fun as hell.
It almost makes Capsule obsolete, since it doesn't help killing tas, Angler, Grisel, and from there, I don't see many 5+ cmc creatures we need to deal with besides Elesh, Iona and Eldrazis.
Yahenni's Expertise or another Aether Revolt card could make the cut over a Skite or a Brutality if ever it fits what I need.
4 Talisman of Dominance
4 Thopter Foundry
3 Sword of the Meek
1 Executioner's Capsule
1 Pithing Needle
3 Collective Brutality
2 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Glint-Nest Crane
3 Spellskite
22 lands
It doesn't solve the Tron problem, nor the lack of Disenchant effects, but it makes all the other MUs way better and a red splash quasi-worthless.
4 glint-nest crane
Planeswalkers (7)
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Answers (9)
3 Inquisition of kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
2 Echoing Truth
Artifacts (18)
3 Mishra's Bauble
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Talisman of Dominance
3 sword of the meek
4 thopter foundry
2 spellskite
3 ensnaring bridge
4 Darksteel Citadel
1 Inventor's Fair
4 Polluted Delta
3 Watery Grave
3 Darkslick Shores
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Swamp
2 Island
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Thoughtseize
2 Lost Legacy
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Disfigure
1 Dismember
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Engineered Explosives
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
I am super happy we got 1 mega playable that shores up a lot of matchups.
You're comparing chord of calling to lead the stampead and garruk. There both very different cards for different situations. I think whir has a place in this deck, just not in its current itteration
(Modern)
RG RG Titanshift RG
WUBR Affinity WUBR
x Eldrazi Tron x
UG Tropical Merfolk UG
(Pauper)
G Elves G
WURG Affinity WURG
I don't know mate, I've been playing a worse removal package with even more 2-drops in the 60 and it's been fine over the last 3 months. I would not cut the Thopter combo, that's the primary wincon and it helps triggering Revolt. A Talisman or 2 could go on the other hand. I play 4 + 4 Underground Rivers specifically for TKS in the SB. This was my latter approach to fight Tron so this is where I have the least reps. If I cut Rivers and some Talismans, I could play 4 fetchlands and have a better manabase for the main deck.
I'm glad you appreciate my take on this anyway !
@Netter : Time Sieve has been debated and I think (but, anyone feel free to react) it was overall considered as winmore, and completely useless alone. Too cute.
Fatal Push is an auto 4-of in the deck, so I would suggest you to cut a Capsule to make room. There's 10 creatures that you can't kill with it in the format and, either you stop them with Bridge, or you discard them.
Whir of Invention requires a very different build and needs a significant target. Reshape and the like have been dismissed by most if not all players here, and are rarely in lists online (not to say never). To me it makes no sense in a Bridge build as it's been discussed in this thread. Either you make big mana like U-Tron and search for a finisher, or you make use of Whir in a way that has not been introduced in this thread yet (like searching for Lotus Bloom and combo).
It's lands like this that make me glad I have an eldrazi tezz build. This set is shaping up to be friggen awesome
Modern: BG eldrazi midrange
BWG Abzan value evolution
BUG BUG Midrange
Tiny Leaders: BW Athreos Zombies
Commander: BG Gitrog Monster
I agree with those saying it is powerful, but needs a significantly different deck. Because it's an instant, and the new 1cmc removal spell is also an instant, it could allow for a new type of combo deck. We don't usually see combos at instant speed, so combining Thopter/sword with removal and counter magic is very intriguing to me. Almost makes me want to put the tezz plan on the back burner, dropping his numbers a bit. Almost.
Absolutely not. The new land is a way for us to hit 3 colors and still get 22+ sources for Whir of Invention. We can start thinking about BUUUG manabases now for example. BUUUG
4 Polluted Delta
4 Darkslick Shores
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Watery Grave
1 Breeding Pool
1 Overgrown Tomb
2 Darksteel Citadel
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Inventors' Fair
2 Lumbering Falls
3 Industrial Tower
4 Talisman of Dominance
Just an example but the numbers really do line up now. This could be huge as well.
22 blue sources for whir
12 green sources for abrupt decay, maelstrom pulse, sideboard cards
19 black sources (12 on turn one for discard or push)
This can be tinkered with of course but it look pretty freaking great. All this incentivizes us to play a couple more 1 drop artifacts though. Maybe up relic of progenitus to 3. I really like the card anyways for disruption/cantripping/flat-out beating some decks.
All this could be done for esper as well. Such an exciting spoiler season for us.
also industrial tower seems like a budget glimmervoid (which i also think we should be playing)
Going to say that Standard BU artifacts will be sweet as hell though.
Mechanized Production can go on Darksteel Citadel to be indestructible and ramp you every turn, might be a janky build out there?
Super excited about Fatal Push.
Modern:
Tezzeret
???
Legacy:
Imperial Painter aka. Strawberry Shortcake
Tezzeret, aka. Dack in Black