I wanted to give kind of a balanced feedback on Vault Skirge. The card doesn't convince some of the experieinced players here, and I think it has to do with the build.
I play 4 Skirges along with 4 Collective Brutality, which opens to a nice sequence :
T1 anything
T2 Brutality, discard Sword
T3 Skirge, equip sword from the graveyard.
or :
T1 anything
T2 Foundry
T3 Brutality, discard Sword, then Skirge, equip sword from the graveyard.
It's the same feeling as when you play Talisman of Dominance into a spell. That means anyone who plays less than 4 Brutality + 4 Skirge won't profit that sequence as much, and will conclude the card is underwhelming. And I believe some players may have tested Skirge without pushing its potential, and eventually dropped it for that reason.
I've seen said synergies in action and while it's nice, getting value off sword didn't seem to be high impact enough to me. Of course you can keep on keeping on wraping/warping your build around it (running Lingering Souls, for instance), but then what exactly are you trying to be? What's the game plan? Because it's got to pack enough of a punch for this cutthroat format and you got to be consistent at it. That's why I'm 100% on Bridge, personaly.
I went 5-0 against burn, It was not the typical Tier 1/2 Burn but more of a custom (an less effective one in my opinion) but still it was great to play against that, and to win. All games were not easy, some were very close but I always manage to have my combo (thx inventor's fair) or a Tezz ult to gain some good life. The Pithing needle + Bridge + spellskite did an amaaazing job game one an I went to 1 life for me, 20 for my opponent to winning the game. The deck is strong and in all matchups i never regret playing 3 spellskite.
It was clear that my opponent was trouble by the "strange" deck I was playing and he never knew if he wanted to hit me or Tezz/spellskite with his spells.
Glint-nest Crane as always was a great card and no more question about it for me -> it's a must have
2 copies as well for Inventor's Fair seems right in the deck, I manage to tempo the game long enough to use its ability.
The discard spells help a lot VS burn I think too and I was glad to have a certain number of Them.
So I am glad with my list like that and I will continue to test it the way it is.
I agree with HeadMinerve that Vault Skirge needs (4) Collective Brutality for the Sword/Combo idea to gel. I have done a ton of testing with Skirge over the years. I believe that the other utility it serves is 'removal'. It isn't that it kills what it blocks, but it is that it buys you time. A turn 1 drop is pretty critical against Infect for instance.
I haven't tried and can't quite envision the full worth of playing Skirge in a non-aggressive Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas deck: (4) Ensoul Artifact Need Apply. I respect your insights - I just wanted to mention that the skirge can swap in for removal slots which can be clunky. I get the necessary inclusion of the cards listed in Mysa21's deck (GoFTthroat/dismember/slaughterpact), but it's cooler when Executioner's Capsule/Vault Skirge provide some synergy with things like Metalcraft and sword/search targets.
@Raystack: your Vault Skirge as "Removal" theory kind of makes sense: since we aim to reach a point where we resolve a perma-wrath (Ensnaring Bridge), neutralizing a threst by trading with it or just by chumping it makes no difference. Given that we "make time" to reach (but we HAVE to reach that point) our locking out. Seems like a risky gamble to me, though.
In such a tempo (lol, or anti-tempo? Cause this strategy is the opposite of what a typical Delver (tempo) deck is going for) build, I want all the foundries and Opals so we can chump -> thopter up to chump again (make time) real early.
- Rad, live at Face to Face Games monday night modern.
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MODERN Blue Lantern, UBx Tezzerator. OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
R1: Ad Nauseam. 2-0 win.
R2: Blue Moon. 2-0 Win.
R3: RG Emporion Ponza. 2-0 Win.
R4: UG Infect. 2-0 Win.
BOOM!
Notable plays:
Match 1 (Ad Nauseam), game 2: T3 Lost Legacy naming Ad Nauseam, opponent scoops lol.
Match 2 (Blue Moon), game 2: I have a hand of Fetch, Fetch, Citadel, Thoughtseize, Brutality, Bridge, Tezz. I T1 Thoughtseize and see his hand of 2x Lands, Snappy, Blood Moon, Cryptic command and Torrential Gearhulk. I tear my hair off and opt to strip him off Snappy, then proceed to grind him out through his T3 Blood Moon.
Match 3 (Ponza), game 2: I open on Island, Serum Visions looking for more lands. He T2 Blood Moons me. I go T2, Talisman into Inquisition, T3 another Talisman into Thoughtseize and then land Tezz for the win.
Match 4 (Infect) : Collective Brutality MVP both games. #Tempo
Bottom notes: three different guys have shown me their Tezz (mostly early) builds during the night! There is starting to be serious interest in the deck
Keep it up!!!
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MODERN Blue Lantern, UBx Tezzerator. OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
Ok guys here is my tournament report for scg Milwaukee my memory isn't the best but I'll try my best. This is the list I played http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/26-06-16-tezzeret-control/ Round 1 affinity 2-1 game 1 we both mull to 5 I get a bridge down Needle plating and tutor with fair for Foundry to combo. Game 2 he had a really fast draw and I had a tap land that slowed me down too much. Game 3 I inquisition him early seeing a wear tear I took a master of etherium since I didn't have an answer I killed his creatures early he blood moons me I fetch for an island so I can keep casting my thirsts. I thirst into a swamp then I ee for 3 to blow up moon and champion I had a turn where I played Foundry sword in yard, started comboing he tried to wear tear it but I saw it coming and spell snared it.(1-0)
Round 2 infect 1-2 Game 1 I mull to 4 and get ran over. Game 2 was a bizarre game he didn't have an infect creature for a long time he had a lot of protection spells but I had a ton of removal spells he drew a blight agent eventually and we had a crazy war to try to kill the agent it was something like this: smother, blossoming defense, dismember, dispel, disfigure, growth, dismember. I won that war then closed the door fast with Thopter sword.
Game 3 mull to 6 I play a capsule and try to brutality him for 2 modes gets spell pierced turn 3 I cast Tasigur, but then he claims my capsule and unfortunately I ran out of removal before Tasigur closed out the game(1-1)
Round 3 gr valakut scapeshift 0-2 really bad matchup. Game 1 I almost stole the game with an early combo I needed to draw a 4th untapped land to play tezzeret for lethal I drew a capsule and died next turn. Game 2 I don't remember that well but he ended up winning(1-2)
Round 4 merfolk 1-2 Game 1 he had 6 lords insane draw I got too greedy with my ee I sandbagged it and took too much damage trying to get more value game 2 I get a bridge down and Thopter sword and even have the snare backup in case of hurkyls. Game 3 I mull to 5 this hand was all in on bridge on 5 I couldn't ask for much I empty my hand as fast as possible but eventually he recalls me and swings for the win. I was very upset I was greedy with the ee game 1 I think that game was very winnable at 14 life instead of 7(1-3 Tilt)
Warning: epic comeback incoming
Round 5 burn 2-0 great matchup didn't need my opponent to get a game loss but he played the wrong person so I was up a game my opening hand had Thopter sword and I had a iok turn 1 as well and I won that game fairly easily(2-3)
Round 6 Panera Bread 2-0 I smothered that bread pretty easily(opponent didn't show up) (3-3)
Round 7 Dredge 2-1 game 1 I get destroyed on a mull to 5 no surprise there. Game 2 I had bridge and Spellskite down he had a good start but didn't have dredgers right away. He gets me down to 4 with some early beats + a conflagrate. I get the combo online and comeback and steal the game. Game 3 I had cage and relic in my opener then got a Spellskite and bridge down he was pretty locked out but only 4 minutes left in the round so I pick up my speed and keep going Draw go until I find the combo and kill him with 1:35 left in the round(4-3)
Round 8 living end 2-1 game 1 he had triple fulminator mage I had triple Thopter Foundry one of those things is slightly better than the other I get land destructioned out of the game. Game 2 I take a cascade spell with inquisition and start the beats with Tasigur and crane also had Spellskite in case of a beast within I was lucky enough to have him not draw another cascade spell until I had negate. Game 3 he gets am early living end off with a bunch of creatures he brought me down to 4 then I damnation follow up with nihil spellbomb and chalice on 0 I soon find a Spellskite and Kinda have him locked out I crane into the missing piece of the combo and he just started hardcasting his creatures but the combo took over soon enough.(5-3)
Round 9 bant eldrazi 1-2 Game 1 I mulled to 5 and he ran me over Game 2 I lock him out Needle on ee and take over with Thopter sword eventually. Game 3 ended on turn 2 more or less the dreaded stony silence. I had the combo in my hand too although i would've comeback if I drew a damnation to kill 2 tks and a smasher or a bridge but I didn't and died to his onslaught.
As far as things I did between rounds I talked to Jim Davis, Nicole(Jims gf), Melvin the muppet, Todd Stevens, and Joe lossett. I'm a mod on todd and Jims streams on twitch so I know them pretty well. Jim took a look at my deck and suggested I cut damnation for more bridge and spell snare in the main over a couple removal spells. He also said my chalice in the board was kinda random I usually had that with Trinket mage but now idk what to replace it with. Any suggestions? Anyways I thought the deck was great as always just got a little too greedy against merfolk and I did end up mulliganing a lot. Glint-nest crane is the real deal I think I'll be cutting a thirst for the 4th I think I sided out 1 thirst every round anyway. Thanks for taking the time to read this hope you enjoyed it.
Awesome report @Tezz_Mizzet, thanks! In such a context, a 5-4 finish is respectable to say the least! Good retrospect, Merfolk punish us for overextending sometimes. They just pack such a punch! Some thoughts:
Game 3 mull to 6 I play a capsule and try to brutality him for 2 modes gets Spell Pierced turn 3 I cast Tasigur, but then he claims my capsule and unfortunately I ran out of removal before Tasigur closed out the game(1-1)
Weirdly, my Capsule get Claimed a lot by infect too. Then I go «Bridge, Thank you...?» I love it so much haha.
Round 3 gr valakut Scapeshift 0-2 really bad matchup. Game 1 I almost stole the game with an early combo I needed to draw a 4th untapped land to play Tezzeret for lethal I drew a capsule and died next turn. Game 2 I don't remember that well but he ended up winning(1-2)
He also said my chalice in the board was kinda random I usually had that with Trinket Mage but now idk what to replace it with. Any suggestions?
Here's the sideboard card you're looking for: Lost Legacy.
Not too sure how to shore up the Bant Eldrazi matchup though. Legacy might or might not help (since it's their early TKS that are the worst to us). But anyway I chose to include a singleton Torpor Orb in the board of my latest list to work against Bant Spirits, and it does shut off TKS and some other random stuff (Prized Amalgam, Flickerbears, Snappies, Titans, etc.). So there's that.
On Lost Legacy, Above all things it's in to name «Scapeshift» and «Karn». On the field, has shown pretty good at naming «Ad Nauseam» too, and I'm sure there are more instance of it being relevant or powerful that will come up. But on a theoretical level, I'm still debating wether it's worth bringing it in and blind naming hatecards («Stony Silence» or «Ancient Grudge») with it. The latter is especially problematic, since red mages sometimes will blow you out by running outliers like Shatterstorm or Vandalblast. Thoughts on the matter most welcome.
Yeah lost legacy seems like a nice inclusion. I don't think the eldrazi matchup is that bad I just didn't have an answer to stony that game. Usually I can snare it or hit it with iok or thoughtseize
Some guys talk modern Tezz in their new weekly stream. Starts around 12 minutes into the stream.
TL;DL
x Liliana of the Veil
2 Ashiok
2 Collective Brutality
2 Thirst for Knowledge
2 Damnation
1 Go for the Throat
1 Dismember
2/2 Thopter / Sword
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Ensnaring Bridge (thinking about 3)
4 Tezz
5 Mana Rocks (4 Talisman)
1 Executioner's Capsule
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Darksteel Citadel
2 Tar Pit
2 Academy Ruins
1 Urborg
2 Ghost Quarter
x River of Tears
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
x (1?) Inventors' Fair
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Batterskull - Against burn and midrange
1 Negate
1 Spreading Seas - Seems odd as a 1-of
1 Shadow of Doubt - Seems like a pet card of his
1 Flaying Tendrils
1 Torpor Orb
1 Pithing Needle
2 Hurkyl's Recall - If you are running crane I don't think this is needed, sice Affinity is a lot better of a matchup with it
Might have missed something, most interesting part is maindeck Crucible, but only 2 GQ with Crucible seems questionable and didn't mention fetching with GQ + Darksteel, 2/2 combo split, don't think he mentioned Crane.
He says downside to the deck, too slow, which is true, but I think he could really use a Crane.
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Modern: Tezzeret
???
Legacy:
Imperial Painter aka. Strawberry Shortcake
Tezzeret, aka. Dack in Black
Congrats guy on launching this new series! And glad that you chose to cover Tezz. However, like others, I think there are a couple things you could improve. Constructive criticism ahead:
- I'll first echo what /u/AcademyRuins said: remember the old «less is more»? I would've taken a bit less (in length, in quantity) but also would've hoped for a little more focus and quality of content.
- In quality terms, I'll echo /u/Crosswindsc2 and state you should further push your analysis (keyword to success IMHO). It's cool to want to cover «sweet modern decks», but you totally should ensure you're making the best analysis of it.
- About Tezz: there are different schools of thoughts, when building this deck. There's a history to it, too. There's been some pros that have had success with it. There's a whole community of brewers and testers that are on it (on MTGS, notably). But all that's given us here is a walk-through some guy's list. Don't get me wrong: it's fun. It's not bad, but it definitely could use a little more research. Or involve people. I mean, there's an edge to be gotten, if you really want to make a place for yourself in the MTGContentSphere. This is true for Tezz and will be true for further podcasts you do.
- About Tezz again, I think your conclusion «The deck is too slow, we'd need a faster mana-rock» is way off. Firstly, Tezz players around the world have been obviously drooling over the idea of getting [[Baleful Strix]] legalized in modern for years. A mana-rock? Anyways, KLD has already given us a card that does the 2-drop job surprisingly well: [[Glint-Nest Crane]]. Just a quick spin over the MTGS Tezz Primer and you'll find praises on how efficient it is at buying you time and digging up your Bridge/combo piece/hate on a very relevant, evasive body. The printing of Crane, [[Inventors' Fair]] and [[Collective Brutality]] has been enough for me to flip the Infect and Burn match-ups (some of the fastest decks around) on their head, to favorable. Focus your build and you might get there.
PS. By the way, just a nitpick: where's the decklist at? I see you've given us plenty decklists for the Kiki-Chord cast, but it's nowhere to be found for Tezz. Consistency please
His list appears pretty «try-to-do-all» to me, which indeed must be medium at best in this cutthroat modern meta. I can understand he finds the deck too slow with such a midrangey, unfocused list. His conclusion, as you can read, made me cringe a little lol. Really disappointed that he don't even acknowledge the existence of Glint-Nest Crane. Still, the deck is gathering attention though, that's good!
It is possible he plays against Jund and Kiki-Chord constantly in his local meta, in which case his build would be fine, but yeah, seems a bit squishy to the aggro decks with 2x Ashiok, 2x Thirst, and Crucible in the main.
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Modern: Tezzeret
???
Legacy:
Imperial Painter aka. Strawberry Shortcake
Tezzeret, aka. Dack in Black
@All: I think I've finally turned into words what's been sitting in my chest for the last couple days, after we've had that Trinket Mage vs Glint-Nest Crane talk. So here's my conclusive statement. Maybe it's primer worthy, if we all agree? Debate most welcome, again
«Glint-Nest Crane is to consistency as Trinket Mage is to toolboxing. Except in replacing the Mage by the Crane, we don't lose toolboxing capacity as this effect is now improved & stapled onto a land (Inventors' Fair)» -- That's even leaving aside body relevance and cheaper casting cost (and the lifegain that Fair brings) from the overall equation.
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MODERN Blue Lantern, UBx Tezzerator. OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
To me it's like comparing Tarmogoyf and Tireless Tracker though. The cards may share something in common but their abilities and uses are so different... One may like to play both cards after all !
Crane is an obvious 4-of staple for the archetype, while Trinket M has been in and out of numerous lists since there's a thread for the deck. For me, the discussion should now be at :
Crane is a 4-of, is it worth it to fill Trinket M for his effect ?
My answer would be the Mage lost value as soon as Crane was printed, and now the card is obsolete in the majority of lists we're proposing here (to be gentle).
I read that it also was a matter of play style. I understand the idea, but before you adjust your style, you have things to answer in the format, and a plan to consolidate (Bridge, combo, Tezz, big finisher). Trinket M narrowly answers some stuff, but doesn't consolidate the plan. If it did both, it would be a maindeck card. As it is, it looks like a SB card at best.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
@Headminerve: you are totally right, and I wasn't too far off, just lacking a little focus: we need not compare the cards, but compare their function in the context of the deck. So this part still holds: «Glint-Nest Crane is to consistency as Trinket Mage is to toolboxing. Except in replacing the Mage by the Crane, we don't lose toolboxing capacity as this effect is now improved & stapled onto a land (Inventors' Fair)».
@All: this is bit of an odd thing to ask, but asking never hurt nobody so here I go: I got me a pair of RUSSIAN FOIL Inventors' Fair (2x), and a FOIL playset of Glint-Nest Crane (4x). I would like to sell away those gems in order to then get me some JAP FOIL of those cards, which I like better. To be clear: I don't want to make any profit off this. For all you Tezz lover Bros, I would just ask for the price that I have paid (good deals they were). If any one of you would be interested, feel free to PM me on that. Thanks
4 glint-sleeve cranes is almost mandatory. I am not sure if the trinket mage is worth the slots when we have 4 glint-sleeves and 4 tezzerets to search the top of our deck quickly; inventor's fair to tutor anything up and maybe you run thirst for knowledge. It just doesn't seem necessary anymore. Wish we could use CON2 daretti though, that guy is a killer in legacy.
Seems how it would appear I am one of the last people still advocating for trinket mage over glint-nest crane allow me to make an argument from a slightly different perspective. For many of us the crane is the only creature in the 75 outside of maybe spellskite. I think it is fair to assume that in many game 1's and in some amount of game 2/3's the creatures are killed on sight because the opponent has removal rotting in their hand. That leads me to believe that should evaluate the spell-like effect (the ETB trigger) far more than the body it is attached to. Which would you rather play:
2U Sorcery
Search your library for an artifact card with converted mana cost 1 or less and put it into your hand.
1U
Look at the top four cards of your library. You may reveal an artifact card from among them and put it into your hand. Put the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.
The first is most similar to fabricate, strictly worse however restricting what we may fetch for.
The second is closest to Impulse, although again strictly worse with the ability to do nothing entirely.
I personally think I would play Fabricate over Impulse any day in this deck. Now you can argue that the 3 toughness and flying are relevant, but the rest of our deck is built to remove creatures or lock out combat all together. If you think the deck needs a digging effect, play serum visions, thirst for knowledge, or splash green for the ancient stirrings.
Furthermore, I have begun testing the crane more extensively because of this forum. I think if you are going to be playing crane you need to seriously consider also playing smugglers copter alongside it. If you target the copter with tezz you no longer need to crew it and you have a 5/5 flying looter.
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U/B Tezzeret Control
Sultai Midrange
Anything Innovative
Hey, new here. I've been playing a little different take on Tezz recently that's a little more of a Rock base splashing Tezz. As a background, I play Shardless in Legacy and wanted a deck that played from a somewhat similar angle. Unfortunately I don't get a chance to jam a lot of games in paper and don't own all the pieces on MTGO, so the playtest results aren't that robust yet. However, the deck has been pretty sweet and has game against the meta, which can be a bit hostile to the usual Tezz plan with how fast it is.
A few decisions I've made I expect to be met with a healthy dose of skepticism, so I'll try to justify them here:
I run the Thopter/Sword combo out of the board. I find the combo to be fairly slow and clunky against a good amount of the field, and the stock list IMO loses too often before it gets a chance to do anything. It's essentially a 3 card combo considering you often need a Bridge to have time to set the combo up behind it. This takes up about 10 slots in the maindeck. Because I'll only board in the combo in slower matchups as a control trump, it only takes 3 slots, which isn't a big deal considering the list gets to pre-board hate.
I don't run any Bridges. I also find that the deck is a little clunky at emptying its hand for Bridge, and it doesn't get to a stage where it's self-sufficient on board like Lantern does.
I play Green. The lack of strong countermagic in modern creates a few big problems for the deck. First, the UB lists are more or less dead to a resolved Stony Silence. You can bounce it and try to go off in one turn, but that can be tough. This list also clocks your opponent better, and you get to play both one of the best card selection cards in Modern and one of the best removal spells.
I play Ancient Stirrings over Glint-Nest Crane. I really like Glint-Nest Crane -- just not here. Ancient Stirrings digs a card deeper and can grab lands, allowing you to keep more hands. Its only downside is not being able to grab Executioner's Capsule, which is probably the first-to-cut card in the deck. Also, because the deck gets to free up slots to play Hangarback Walker and Goyf, the body is less relevant.
The deck has been really fun to play. I'd try to talk a little more specifically about certain matchups but unfortunately I don't really have good enough data to do so yet--hopefully work cooperates and I can jam more games coming up.
@treetopvillager My suggestion on your list would be, too many hangarback walkers. They are so slow and durdly. I don't know what the correct number is but I used to play them and 2 felt fine but even then the card is really not that great. It depends on your meta too, if you have lot of slow midrange or control decks then it's a fine card.
I also believe you are doing yourself a huge disservice not playing 3-4 citadels. They are basically the reason to play Tez. I can't tell you how many games they have won me being animated. It doesn't look like you are hurting all that badly for colored mana to be honest. I mean you are basically a 2 color deck. I play a heavy esper shell without signets and have had little problems getting the colors I need.
Why bother with the combo at all? Doesn't seem like you really need it. I find it hard to believe 3 cards will be reliable at all to set up. 3 tez to dig, 4 stirrings to find a sword and 1 fair. Without bridge it seems kind of like a pipe dream to pull it off. What matches would you want it where you would have time to find the pieces and get it going?
also, what's the elixir for?
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Current Decks:
Modern: BG eldrazi midrange BWG Abzan value evolution BUG BUG Midrange
@treetopvillager My suggestion on your list would be, too many hangarback walkers. They are so slow and durdly. I don't know what the correct number is but I used to play them and 2 felt fine but even then the card is really not that great. It depends on your meta too, if you have lot of slow midrange or control decks then it's a fine card.
I also believe you are doing yourself a huge disservice not playing 3-4 citadels. They are basically the reason to play Tez. I can't tell you how many games they have won me being animated. It doesn't look like you are hurting all that badly for colored mana to be honest. I mean you are basically a 2 color deck. I play a heavy esper shell without signets and have had little problems getting the colors I need.
Why bother with the combo at all? Doesn't seem like you really need it. I find it hard to believe 3 cards will be reliable at all to set up. 3 tez to dig, 4 stirrings to find a sword and 1 fair. Without bridge it seems kind of like a pipe dream to pull it off. What matches would you want it where you would have time to find the pieces and get it going?
also, what's the elixir for?
Thanks, this was definitely helpful. Hangarbacks can sometimes be clunky, but I think you're right that it's better to run fewer. 2 seems right, I think--I like that it can come down early and block and then turn into an evasive 5/5, or is a reasonable threat later that can be tutored with Trinket Mage. Other cards I've been considering in the slot are Phyrexian Revoker, Arcbound Ravager, and Filigree Familiar. If I up the Citadel count it's possible I can run 2 Cranes.
I think you're right with the Citadels. The colorless sources were more of an issue when I was playing Talismans instead of the Signet mix, but the filtering should improve that a lot.
The combo comes in against Nahiri and the other GBx decks. Both matchups often turn into slow grind fests where you have time to set up the combo and have some cards you want to side out. The pieces also don't suck alone in those matchups, as those decks tend to have dumb guys that you can block effectively with the thopters to protect your walkers, and the sword breaks Goyf stalls.
The Elixir is there for burn. I've had situations where I have a 5/6 Goyf that can race Burn if I had an extra turn. Trinket Mage + Elixir is good enough there because the Mage can battle Goblin Guide and Eidolon effectively, and forces the burn player to create a prowess trigger on Swiftspear to trade effectively (it feels real good to put a burn player where they'd have to play Skullcrack or Atarka's for prowess and you can crack Elixir in response). They usually can't win on Turn 3 through either a Hangarback or a Goyf. I'm open to other cards to help that matchup, though.
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
3 Spellskite
4 Glint-Nest Crane
Spells
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
1 Go for the Throat
1 Dismember
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Executioner's Capsule
2 Mox Opal
1 Pithing Needle
1 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Sword of the Meek
4 Thopter Foundry
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Lands
4 Darksteel Citadel
2 Inventor's Fair
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Polluted Delta
2 Watery Grave
2 River of Tears
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Swamp
1 Island
I went 5-0 against burn, It was not the typical Tier 1/2 Burn but more of a custom (an less effective one in my opinion) but still it was great to play against that, and to win. All games were not easy, some were very close but I always manage to have my combo (thx inventor's fair) or a Tezz ult to gain some good life. The Pithing needle + Bridge + spellskite did an amaaazing job game one an I went to 1 life for me, 20 for my opponent to winning the game. The deck is strong and in all matchups i never regret playing 3 spellskite.
It was clear that my opponent was trouble by the "strange" deck I was playing and he never knew if he wanted to hit me or Tezz/spellskite with his spells.
Glint-nest Crane as always was a great card and no more question about it for me -> it's a must have
2 copies as well for Inventor's Fair seems right in the deck, I manage to tempo the game long enough to use its ability.
The discard spells help a lot VS burn I think too and I was glad to have a certain number of Them.
So I am glad with my list like that and I will continue to test it the way it is.
I haven't tried and can't quite envision the full worth of playing Skirge in a non-aggressive Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas deck: (4) Ensoul Artifact Need Apply. I respect your insights - I just wanted to mention that the skirge can swap in for removal slots which can be clunky. I get the necessary inclusion of the cards listed in Mysa21's deck (GoFTthroat/dismember/slaughterpact), but it's cooler when Executioner's Capsule/Vault Skirge provide some synergy with things like Metalcraft and sword/search targets.
@Raystack: your Vault Skirge as "Removal" theory kind of makes sense: since we aim to reach a point where we resolve a perma-wrath (Ensnaring Bridge), neutralizing a threst by trading with it or just by chumping it makes no difference. Given that we "make time" to reach (but we HAVE to reach that point) our locking out. Seems like a risky gamble to me, though.
In such a tempo (lol, or anti-tempo? Cause this strategy is the opposite of what a typical Delver (tempo) deck is going for) build, I want all the foundries and Opals so we can chump -> thopter up to chump again (make time) real early.
- Rad, live at Face to Face Games monday night modern.
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
4 Glint-Nest Crane
1 Spellskite
Spells
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Executioner's Capsule
3 Serum Visions
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
3 Sword of the Meek
4 Thopter Foundry
4 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Mox Opal
3 Talisman of Dominance
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Island
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Inventors' Fair
2 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Polluted Delta
1 Pithing Needle
1 Torpor Orb
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Spellskite
1 Ensoul Artifact
2 Flaying Tendrils
1 Damnation
1 Thoughtseize
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Lost Legacy
R2: Blue Moon. 2-0 Win.
R3: RG Emporion Ponza. 2-0 Win.
R4: UG Infect. 2-0 Win.
BOOM!
Notable plays:
Match 1 (Ad Nauseam), game 2: T3 Lost Legacy naming Ad Nauseam, opponent scoops lol.
Match 2 (Blue Moon), game 2: I have a hand of Fetch, Fetch, Citadel, Thoughtseize, Brutality, Bridge, Tezz. I T1 Thoughtseize and see his hand of 2x Lands, Snappy, Blood Moon, Cryptic command and Torrential Gearhulk. I tear my hair off and opt to strip him off Snappy, then proceed to grind him out through his T3 Blood Moon.
Match 3 (Ponza), game 2: I open on Island, Serum Visions looking for more lands. He T2 Blood Moons me. I go T2, Talisman into Inquisition, T3 another Talisman into Thoughtseize and then land Tezz for the win.
Match 4 (Infect) : Collective Brutality MVP both games. #Tempo
Bottom notes: three different guys have shown me their Tezz (mostly early) builds during the night! There is starting to be serious interest in the deck
Keep it up!!!
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
Round 2 infect 1-2 Game 1 I mull to 4 and get ran over. Game 2 was a bizarre game he didn't have an infect creature for a long time he had a lot of protection spells but I had a ton of removal spells he drew a blight agent eventually and we had a crazy war to try to kill the agent it was something like this: smother, blossoming defense, dismember, dispel, disfigure, growth, dismember. I won that war then closed the door fast with Thopter sword.
Game 3 mull to 6 I play a capsule and try to brutality him for 2 modes gets spell pierced turn 3 I cast Tasigur, but then he claims my capsule and unfortunately I ran out of removal before Tasigur closed out the game(1-1)
Round 3 gr valakut scapeshift 0-2 really bad matchup. Game 1 I almost stole the game with an early combo I needed to draw a 4th untapped land to play tezzeret for lethal I drew a capsule and died next turn. Game 2 I don't remember that well but he ended up winning(1-2)
Round 4 merfolk 1-2 Game 1 he had 6 lords insane draw I got too greedy with my ee I sandbagged it and took too much damage trying to get more value game 2 I get a bridge down and Thopter sword and even have the snare backup in case of hurkyls. Game 3 I mull to 5 this hand was all in on bridge on 5 I couldn't ask for much I empty my hand as fast as possible but eventually he recalls me and swings for the win. I was very upset I was greedy with the ee game 1 I think that game was very winnable at 14 life instead of 7(1-3 Tilt)
Warning: epic comeback incoming
Round 5 burn 2-0 great matchup didn't need my opponent to get a game loss but he played the wrong person so I was up a game my opening hand had Thopter sword and I had a iok turn 1 as well and I won that game fairly easily(2-3)
Round 6 Panera Bread 2-0 I smothered that bread pretty easily(opponent didn't show up) (3-3)
Round 7 Dredge 2-1 game 1 I get destroyed on a mull to 5 no surprise there. Game 2 I had bridge and Spellskite down he had a good start but didn't have dredgers right away. He gets me down to 4 with some early beats + a conflagrate. I get the combo online and comeback and steal the game. Game 3 I had cage and relic in my opener then got a Spellskite and bridge down he was pretty locked out but only 4 minutes left in the round so I pick up my speed and keep going Draw go until I find the combo and kill him with 1:35 left in the round(4-3)
Round 8 living end 2-1 game 1 he had triple fulminator mage I had triple Thopter Foundry one of those things is slightly better than the other I get land destructioned out of the game. Game 2 I take a cascade spell with inquisition and start the beats with Tasigur and crane also had Spellskite in case of a beast within I was lucky enough to have him not draw another cascade spell until I had negate. Game 3 he gets am early living end off with a bunch of creatures he brought me down to 4 then I damnation follow up with nihil spellbomb and chalice on 0 I soon find a Spellskite and Kinda have him locked out I crane into the missing piece of the combo and he just started hardcasting his creatures but the combo took over soon enough.(5-3)
Round 9 bant eldrazi 1-2 Game 1 I mulled to 5 and he ran me over Game 2 I lock him out Needle on ee and take over with Thopter sword eventually. Game 3 ended on turn 2 more or less the dreaded stony silence. I had the combo in my hand too although i would've comeback if I drew a damnation to kill 2 tks and a smasher or a bridge but I didn't and died to his onslaught.
As far as things I did between rounds I talked to Jim Davis, Nicole(Jims gf), Melvin the muppet, Todd Stevens, and Joe lossett. I'm a mod on todd and Jims streams on twitch so I know them pretty well. Jim took a look at my deck and suggested I cut damnation for more bridge and spell snare in the main over a couple removal spells. He also said my chalice in the board was kinda random I usually had that with Trinket mage but now idk what to replace it with. Any suggestions? Anyways I thought the deck was great as always just got a little too greedy against merfolk and I did end up mulliganing a lot. Glint-nest crane is the real deal I think I'll be cutting a thirst for the 4th I think I sided out 1 thirst every round anyway. Thanks for taking the time to read this hope you enjoyed it.
Weirdly, my Capsule get Claimed a lot by infect too. Then I go «Bridge, Thank you...?» I love it so much haha.
Here's the sideboard card you're looking for: Lost Legacy.
Not too sure how to shore up the Bant Eldrazi matchup though. Legacy might or might not help (since it's their early TKS that are the worst to us). But anyway I chose to include a singleton Torpor Orb in the board of my latest list to work against Bant Spirits, and it does shut off TKS and some other random stuff (Prized Amalgam, Flickerbears, Snappies, Titans, etc.). So there's that.
On Lost Legacy, Above all things it's in to name «Scapeshift» and «Karn». On the field, has shown pretty good at naming «Ad Nauseam» too, and I'm sure there are more instance of it being relevant or powerful that will come up. But on a theoretical level, I'm still debating wether it's worth bringing it in and blind naming hatecards («Stony Silence» or «Ancient Grudge») with it. The latter is especially problematic, since red mages sometimes will blow you out by running outliers like Shatterstorm or Vandalblast. Thoughts on the matter most welcome.
Keep it up
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
Some guys talk modern Tezz in their new weekly stream. Starts around 12 minutes into the stream.
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
TL;DL
x Liliana of the Veil
2 Ashiok
2 Collective Brutality
2 Thirst for Knowledge
2 Damnation
1 Go for the Throat
1 Dismember
2/2 Thopter / Sword
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Ensnaring Bridge (thinking about 3)
4 Tezz
5 Mana Rocks (4 Talisman)
1 Executioner's Capsule
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Darksteel Citadel
2 Tar Pit
2 Academy Ruins
1 Urborg
2 Ghost Quarter
x River of Tears
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
x (1?) Inventors' Fair
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Batterskull - Against burn and midrange
1 Negate
1 Spreading Seas - Seems odd as a 1-of
1 Shadow of Doubt - Seems like a pet card of his
1 Flaying Tendrils
1 Torpor Orb
1 Pithing Needle
2 Hurkyl's Recall - If you are running crane I don't think this is needed, sice Affinity is a lot better of a matchup with it
Might have missed something, most interesting part is maindeck Crucible, but only 2 GQ with Crucible seems questionable and didn't mention fetching with GQ + Darksteel, 2/2 combo split, don't think he mentioned Crane.
He says downside to the deck, too slow, which is true, but I think he could really use a Crane.
Modern:
Tezzeret
???
Legacy:
Imperial Painter aka. Strawberry Shortcake
Tezzeret, aka. Dack in Black
(https://www.reddit.com/r/ModernMagic/comments/59kiyv/new_podcast_with_focus_on_the_modern_format_hold/?st=iuslqqye&sh=00883138)
His list appears pretty «try-to-do-all» to me, which indeed must be medium at best in this cutthroat modern meta. I can understand he finds the deck too slow with such a midrangey, unfocused list. His conclusion, as you can read, made me cringe a little lol. Really disappointed that he don't even acknowledge the existence of Glint-Nest Crane. Still, the deck is gathering attention though, that's good!
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
Modern:
Tezzeret
???
Legacy:
Imperial Painter aka. Strawberry Shortcake
Tezzeret, aka. Dack in Black
@All: I think I've finally turned into words what's been sitting in my chest for the last couple days, after we've had that Trinket Mage vs Glint-Nest Crane talk. So here's my conclusive statement. Maybe it's primer worthy, if we all agree? Debate most welcome, again
«Glint-Nest Crane is to consistency as Trinket Mage is to toolboxing. Except in replacing the Mage by the Crane, we don't lose toolboxing capacity as this effect is now improved & stapled onto a land (Inventors' Fair)» -- That's even leaving aside body relevance and cheaper casting cost (and the lifegain that Fair brings) from the overall equation.
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
Crane is an obvious 4-of staple for the archetype, while Trinket M has been in and out of numerous lists since there's a thread for the deck. For me, the discussion should now be at :
Crane is a 4-of, is it worth it to fill Trinket M for his effect ?
My answer would be the Mage lost value as soon as Crane was printed, and now the card is obsolete in the majority of lists we're proposing here (to be gentle).
I read that it also was a matter of play style. I understand the idea, but before you adjust your style, you have things to answer in the format, and a plan to consolidate (Bridge, combo, Tezz, big finisher). Trinket M narrowly answers some stuff, but doesn't consolidate the plan. If it did both, it would be a maindeck card. As it is, it looks like a SB card at best.
@All: this is bit of an odd thing to ask, but asking never hurt nobody so here I go: I got me a pair of RUSSIAN FOIL Inventors' Fair (2x), and a FOIL playset of Glint-Nest Crane (4x). I would like to sell away those gems in order to then get me some JAP FOIL of those cards, which I like better. To be clear: I don't want to make any profit off this. For all you Tezz lover Bros, I would just ask for the price that I have paid (good deals they were). If any one of you would be interested, feel free to PM me on that. Thanks
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
2U Sorcery
Search your library for an artifact card with converted mana cost 1 or less and put it into your hand.
1U
Look at the top four cards of your library. You may reveal an artifact card from among them and put it into your hand. Put the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.
The first is most similar to fabricate, strictly worse however restricting what we may fetch for.
The second is closest to Impulse, although again strictly worse with the ability to do nothing entirely.
I personally think I would play Fabricate over Impulse any day in this deck. Now you can argue that the 3 toughness and flying are relevant, but the rest of our deck is built to remove creatures or lock out combat all together. If you think the deck needs a digging effect, play serum visions, thirst for knowledge, or splash green for the ancient stirrings.
Furthermore, I have begun testing the crane more extensively because of this forum. I think if you are going to be playing crane you need to seriously consider also playing smugglers copter alongside it. If you target the copter with tezz you no longer need to crew it and you have a 5/5 flying looter.
Sultai Midrange
Anything Innovative
The list:
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Spellskite
2 Trinket Mage
1 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Hangarback Walker
Instant and Sorcery
4 Ancient Stirrings
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Go for the Throat
Artifact
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
1 Executioner's Capsule
2 Golgari Signet
2 Dimir Signet
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Liliana of the Veil
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Land
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Academy Ruins
2 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Watery Grave
1 Breeding Pool
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Swamp
1 Forest
2 Thopter Foundry
1 Sword of the Meek
1 Ancestral Vision
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Thoughtseize
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Nature's Claim
1 Golgari Charm
1 Damnation
1 Flaying Tendrils
2 Lost Legacy
1 Grafdigger's Cage
A few decisions I've made I expect to be met with a healthy dose of skepticism, so I'll try to justify them here:
I run the Thopter/Sword combo out of the board. I find the combo to be fairly slow and clunky against a good amount of the field, and the stock list IMO loses too often before it gets a chance to do anything. It's essentially a 3 card combo considering you often need a Bridge to have time to set the combo up behind it. This takes up about 10 slots in the maindeck. Because I'll only board in the combo in slower matchups as a control trump, it only takes 3 slots, which isn't a big deal considering the list gets to pre-board hate.
I don't run any Bridges. I also find that the deck is a little clunky at emptying its hand for Bridge, and it doesn't get to a stage where it's self-sufficient on board like Lantern does.
I play Green. The lack of strong countermagic in modern creates a few big problems for the deck. First, the UB lists are more or less dead to a resolved Stony Silence. You can bounce it and try to go off in one turn, but that can be tough. This list also clocks your opponent better, and you get to play both one of the best card selection cards in Modern and one of the best removal spells.
I play Ancient Stirrings over Glint-Nest Crane. I really like Glint-Nest Crane -- just not here. Ancient Stirrings digs a card deeper and can grab lands, allowing you to keep more hands. Its only downside is not being able to grab Executioner's Capsule, which is probably the first-to-cut card in the deck. Also, because the deck gets to free up slots to play Hangarback Walker and Goyf, the body is less relevant.
The deck has been really fun to play. I'd try to talk a little more specifically about certain matchups but unfortunately I don't really have good enough data to do so yet--hopefully work cooperates and I can jam more games coming up.
I also believe you are doing yourself a huge disservice not playing 3-4 citadels. They are basically the reason to play Tez. I can't tell you how many games they have won me being animated. It doesn't look like you are hurting all that badly for colored mana to be honest. I mean you are basically a 2 color deck. I play a heavy esper shell without signets and have had little problems getting the colors I need.
Why bother with the combo at all? Doesn't seem like you really need it. I find it hard to believe 3 cards will be reliable at all to set up. 3 tez to dig, 4 stirrings to find a sword and 1 fair. Without bridge it seems kind of like a pipe dream to pull it off. What matches would you want it where you would have time to find the pieces and get it going?
also, what's the elixir for?
Modern: BG eldrazi midrange
BWG Abzan value evolution
BUG BUG Midrange
Tiny Leaders: BW Athreos Zombies
Commander: BG Gitrog Monster
Thanks, this was definitely helpful. Hangarbacks can sometimes be clunky, but I think you're right that it's better to run fewer. 2 seems right, I think--I like that it can come down early and block and then turn into an evasive 5/5, or is a reasonable threat later that can be tutored with Trinket Mage. Other cards I've been considering in the slot are Phyrexian Revoker, Arcbound Ravager, and Filigree Familiar. If I up the Citadel count it's possible I can run 2 Cranes.
I think you're right with the Citadels. The colorless sources were more of an issue when I was playing Talismans instead of the Signet mix, but the filtering should improve that a lot.
The combo comes in against Nahiri and the other GBx decks. Both matchups often turn into slow grind fests where you have time to set up the combo and have some cards you want to side out. The pieces also don't suck alone in those matchups, as those decks tend to have dumb guys that you can block effectively with the thopters to protect your walkers, and the sword breaks Goyf stalls.
The Elixir is there for burn. I've had situations where I have a 5/6 Goyf that can race Burn if I had an extra turn. Trinket Mage + Elixir is good enough there because the Mage can battle Goblin Guide and Eidolon effectively, and forces the burn player to create a prowess trigger on Swiftspear to trade effectively (it feels real good to put a burn player where they'd have to play Skullcrack or Atarka's for prowess and you can crack Elixir in response). They usually can't win on Turn 3 through either a Hangarback or a Goyf. I'm open to other cards to help that matchup, though.