...Anywho.... theres my thoughts, I worked on a similar deck to MUD for a while. Its probably decently positioned right now, but not great unless you can really crank up the speed an consistency. The only real way to crank the speed would be more fast mana (since Etherium Sculptor is not very consistent[/card]) in the form of more Mox Opal and some Simian Spirit Guides, though you end up pushing a lot out of the window for a very small return when you go deep into speed. To become more consistent we need more card draw and/or more cards that trade favorably with other creatures (Baleful Strix where art thou?), or a way to easily break our own taxing to take out opposing creatures permanents (Executioner's Capsule isnt enough for modern, nor is it fast enough). We're fairly limited on the removal we could run which is why there are 3x EEs in the deck, I could see an attempt to run Dismember or other 1-2 CMC removals (no Path to Exile though) but most of the 1 drop stuff is in red and that would tax our own life/mana base to be able to cover that.... worth exploring tho.
Yea, I'm working on a modern "MUD" deck now and the only way to really realize it is using Grand Architect.
I agree with your points on taxing; one way I try to get around it is by using delve spells like Murderous Cut and Logic Knot. This led me to experiment with Mishra's Bauble as a delve enabler (in addition to 6 fetchlands). It replaces itself, gives you information and doesn't get taxed by Lodestone Golem. But yea, if you are going to play mainboard Lodestone and Thron, I'd recommend making Tezzeret the sideboard plan and siding out the taxing aspect game 2.
Yea, I'm working on a modern "MUD" deck now and the only way to really realize it is using Grand Architect.
I agree with your points on taxing; one way I try to get around it is by using delve spells like Murderous Cut and Logic Knot. This led me to experiment with Mishra's Bauble as a delve enabler (in addition to 6 fetchlands). It replaces itself, gives you information and doesn't get taxed by Lodestone Golem. But yea, if you are going to play mainboard Lodestone and Thron, I'd recommend making Tezzeret the sideboard plan and siding out the taxing aspect game 2.
In my tests of a generic list I was using I found that the taxing aspect either nearly locks out your opponent and you can just jam and win from there, or its too late / useless and you just die.
I think having more fast mana would be a much better route, leaving Tezz in the board for grindy matchups and be MUCH MUCH closer to an affinity deck that tops out at Lodestone Golem. I haven't worked out a list for that yet as it would be MUCH MUCH more touchy as you have more 0 and 1 CMC cards that you shut yourself off of with Chalice.
The idea is to be able to dig for a Monastery Mentor and then Tezz fuels more prowess triggers. There are 16 cantrip artifacts to facilitate this... worst case scenario (hopefully) is you can just 5/5 up some artifacts. Spellskite is in because... Spellskite! I haven't had a chance to test this out yet, so it probably needs some tweaks.
No Mox Opal because most of the artifacts dont stick around to provide metalcraft.
Only 2 colorless lands to hopefully not hiccup on colors, unsure of the manlands (count and number) figured 1-1 is good for now... might end up more since the deck is supposed to snowball, taking off turn 1 shouldnt be horrible.
Probably loses horribly to burn...
/e : Batterskull and Swords for high impact tezz hits that also trigger Prowess. Its very likely the deck just needs more threats and less cantrip artifacts.
If I'm running Esper I would definitely max out on Path to Exile. Also I don't like Executioner's Capsule without big Tezz or Trinket Mage, being able to randomly hit it off of Tezzeret +1 isn't worth being a 3 mana Doom Blade. You might be a bit too high on colorless lands and I assume you just don't have a 2nd Damnation because it'd be a lot nicer if you didn't have to get double white for Wrath of God.
Otherwise it looks pretty good, I assume you're expecting a lot of Twin in your meta if you have 2x Torpor Orb on top of the usual Spellskites.
Thanks for the comments! I didnt want to max out of PtE because as much as its a remove essentially anything spell, I didn't want to just have that incase some random off chance someone extirpate or surgical extractions them, for whatever odd reason. The capsule was just something to go with the academy ruins, incase i ever need it. And trading post as well if necessary.
If i were to cut down on colorless lands, what would you suggest? I wanted to keep at least two tectonic edges for whatever i may come up against, and the darksteel citadels serve as beaters with tezz's -1.
I do have the second damnation, I just put one of each in because i wanted to see which i color of doubles i could reliably hit on turn 3/4 better.
I just have the torpor orbs in there because there really arent any other value artifacts to put in, to be honest. I may just drop the artifact count and add in some counterspells or esper charms, to be able to get either more card advantage(esper charm) or be able to interact a little with some of the necessary evil spells (counters).
If someone Extirpates your PtE, just be happy they 0-for-1'd themselves. Also you have no other double white spells and other double blacks like Liliana, Damnation will be easier to cast and you should skew your manabase in that direction.
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If I'm running Esper I would definitely max out on Path to Exile. Also I don't like Executioner's Capsule without big Tezz or Trinket Mage, being able to randomly hit it off of Tezzeret +1 isn't worth being a 3 mana Doom Blade. You might be a bit too high on colorless lands and I assume you just don't have a 2nd Damnation because it'd be a lot nicer if you didn't have to get double white for Wrath of God.
Otherwise it looks pretty good, I assume you're expecting a lot of Twin in your meta if you have 2x Torpor Orb on top of the usual Spellskites.
Thanks for the comments! I didnt want to max out of PtE because as much as its a remove essentially anything spell, I didn't want to just have that incase some random off chance someone extirpate or surgical extractions them, for whatever odd reason. The capsule was just something to go with the academy ruins, incase i ever need it. And trading post as well if necessary.
If i were to cut down on colorless lands, what would you suggest? I wanted to keep at least two tectonic edges for whatever i may come up against, and the darksteel citadels serve as beaters with tezz's -1.
I do have the second damnation, I just put one of each in because i wanted to see which i color of doubles i could reliably hit on turn 3/4 better.
I just have the torpor orbs in there because there really arent any other value artifacts to put in, to be honest. I may just drop the artifact count and add in some counterspells or esper charms, to be able to get either more card advantage(esper charm) or be able to interact a little with some of the necessary evil spells (counters).
I would drop the reflecting pool and at least 1 citadel for a couple more fetches, that should allow you to fix your colors much easier. Maybe drop mystic gate too (colorless lands + filter lands = frown).
Hello all, I've been following this thread for a while and have my own take on UB Tezzeret and would love a new set of eyes on it to help me figure out some things. Here is the list in question:
Creatures (4)
1x Spellskite (2) A
1x Wurmcoil Engine (6) A
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang (5B)
Planeswalkers (4)
4x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas (2UB)
Artifacts (15) (Total: 21)
4x Mishra's Bauble (0) A
1x Mox Opal (0) A
1x Pithing Needle (1) A
4x Dimir Signet (2) A
4x Talisman of Dominance (2) A
1x Batterskull (5) A
Instants/Sorceries (16)
1x Slaughter Pact (0)
3x Thoughtseize (B)
3x Inquisition of Kozilek (B)
2x Smother (1B)
1x Go for the Throat (1B)
1x Dismember (1BB)
2x Thirst for Knowledge (2U)
2x Damnation (2BB)
1x Murderous Cut (4B)
I feel this list personally fits my playstyle, but as of late I've been contemplating putting in 4 Serum Visions to make my early hands more smooth. I've also considered trying to fit in 2-4 Mana Leaks to give me a hard counter game 1 to handle different problem cards I don't want hitting the board. I'd like any feedback I can get.
Sorry I can't comment on your deck much, it's a lot more in the Shouta style which I don't have a great deal of experience with.
As for the meta in general, I think Jund is going to be back on the rise from Abzan for Lightning Bolt against infect, elves, and all the other little dork decks. Also Grixis Delver has shown itself to be a big player, both these decks will probably be running Kolaghan's Command which really hurts any artifact based decks; kill your Ensnaring Bridge get back a creature is a brutal swing against us.
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@Alabasteroth: I've been away for a while, but I've been lurking around trying to get back up to speed since the bannings. Interesting times! So take my thoughts with a grain of salt, I may be missing something seemingly obvious.
Damnation seems heavily primed to be awesome right now. I'm seeing a lot of decks that want to fill the board, and getting consistent positive value from your removal is important. I would recommend switching some of your 1 for 1 removal to get the full playset of black sweepers. Which to trade is going to be a meta call on your end, however.
I don't like Polluted Delta for your list. The life-loss is so important to us, and Ghost Quarter is so feasible for you, while also doing double duty against opposing man-lands and Tron strategies. After Polluted Delta is gone, It's your call if Watery Grave still has a place, but I would recommend giving Glimmervoid a try if you haven't already. Full range of mana, no pain.
As for the counter strategy, Mana Leak is not a hard counter, as it can be ignored either in the late game or by any deck that ramps sufficiently quickly (Tron, Scapeshift, Bloom Titan, Devotion). I personally run a one-of Cryptic Command, with some other counters in the sideboard depending on your meta. It might be more difficult with your manabase, however. Disdainful Stroke seems like a powerful possibility.
Gotta say that I'm not entirely sure what mileage you are getting out of Mishra's Bauble though. As a draw spell? A delve enabler for those 3 cards? It seems like it adds too little. Thirst for Knowledge is both an excellent draw spell and a delve enabler, for those EoT where you have mana up. It's also space I generally use for 'silver bullets', the little artifacts that ruin your opponent's day. Grafdigger's Cage, Tectonic Edge, etc. All meta-dependent, but it's these cards that steal games. The cage specifically seems well placed right now, to shut down Bloom Titan and mess with a lot of other cards.
So I might suggest trying out Thirst 3 & 4, a Tectonic Edge, and a silver bullet of your choice in there. Maybe drop Talisman 4 for another artifact, if you find yourself mana flooding.
Hey Ripptor, glad to hear back from ya! This being said, I have to disagree on some points you're making [and @Alabasteroth, I'm coming with more suggestions].
On Mishra's Bauble, it's a fantastic enabler both for Tezz (+1 consistency, free -1 target... that can cantrip if to be removed) AND for Thirst for Knowledge. Adding the Baubles to the build give us the artifact critical mass we need to really bring Tezz over the top.
However, there is a tempo loss involved, and it is less significant is your build packs instant speed stuff, than if it's all sorcery. That's why, Alabasteroth, I'd suggest you go ahead with the Mana Leaks (2-3) maybe over some number of Thoughtseize (lifeloss matters, you can still counter their big plays with Leak, or if they have big creatures, you should have a Damnation or Cut to deal with it. Max 5 targeted discard spells IMO, because tempo loss (AGAIN) AND they're an awful topdeck. Countermagic does the trick better. Get bluer). Also, I like the 2-of Thirst for knowledge. What I'd like to see in there, rather than Serum Visions, is Anticipate. Works with instant speed play.
If I were to play a Tezz deck right now, It would probably look like that.
EDIT: I don't think Smother kills all you wanna be killing right now. Between Rhinos and Tasigurs and Huntmasters and Olivia!
Gotta say that I'm not entirely sure what mileage you are getting out of Mishra's Bauble though. As a draw spell? A delve enabler for those 3 cards? It seems like it adds too little. Thirst for Knowledge is both an excellent draw spell and a delve enabler, for those EoT where you have mana up. It's also space I generally use for 'silver bullets', the little artifacts that ruin your opponent's day. Grafdigger's Cage, Tectonic Edge, etc. All meta-dependent, but it's these cards that steal games. The cage specifically seems well placed right now, to shut down Bloom Titan and mess with a lot of other cards.
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Hey @Radouf! It's exciting to be back looking into this stuff again. With the meta in such flux it makes things a lot more difficult atm, but very interesting. Rogue decks everywhere.
After looking at the top8s and a handful of articles and discussions, this is what I'm starting with right now. Love to hear your thoughts, as always!
Awesome. If you're going red, I think Anger of the Gods is really really good now, since it stops Collected Company and Elves cold. It's also Ok vs Grixis Delver and Zoo variants. And because of all these cheap creature's (and Burn, and Affinity, and Infect) presence in the meta game, I'm thinking Lighting Bolt may become a AAA removal spell shortly. Red gives you that. If you don't go for it, Terminate is strictly better than Smother, hitting Rhinos, Tasigurs, Anglers, Olivias, Huntmasters and Titans alike. If you don't opt in on the bolt, I think Chalice of the Void is in a good spot, too.
I'm still not sold on Nicol Bolas, as it's SO FRIGGIN EXPENSIVE. A second Wurmcoil would seem more viable to me. Also, Batterksull just gets killed by Rhinos, Tasigurs and Anglers, which is indeed sad but a fact. And now, Kolaghan's command is starting to see some serious play (Jund, Grixis Delver / Control), so it really hurts to 'Skull, too. Oh, Kolaghan's command. You can play the card, too.
EDIT: I think I'm shying away from Attrition strategies for Tezz (atm). Liliana is out, for me at least. In your case, trying to ramp up to Bolas or Wurmcoil, isn't she straining your ressources, hence nonbo-ing?
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Awesome. If you're going red, I think Anger of the Gods is really really good now, since it stops Collected Company and Elves cold. It's also Ok vs Grixis Delver and Zoo variants. And because of all these cheap creature's (and Burn, and Affinity, and Infect) presence in the meta game, I'm thinking Lighting Bolt may become a AAA removal spell shortly. Red gives you that. If you don't go for it, Terminate is strictly better than Smother, hitting Rhinos, Tasigurs, Anglers, Olivias, Huntmasters and Titans alike. If you don't opt in on the bolt, I think Chalice of the Void is in a good spot, too.
I'm still not sold on Nicol Bolas, as it's SO FRIGGIN EXPENSIVE. A second Wurmcoil would seem more viable to me. Also, Batterksull just gets killed by Rhinos, Tasigurs and Anglers, which is indeed sad but a fact. And now, Kolaghan's command is starting to see some serious play (Jund, Grixis Delver / Control), so it really hurts to 'Skull, too. Oh, Kolaghan's command. You can play the card, too.
EDIT: I think I'm shying away from Attrition strategies for Tezz (atm). Liliana is out, for me at least. In your case, trying to ramp up to Bolas or Wurmcoil, isn't she straining your ressources, hence nonbo-ing?
I've avoided Anger of the Gods due to it's harsh RR mana requirement, leaning mostly on Damnation as board wipes go. Grafdigger's Cage blanks Collected Company and Summoning Trap like effects, so that's why he's still around. I still like Smother for the cheap creature removal early game, I fear Terminate won't be available as consistently.. but it is much more versatile. Still gotta worry about Affinity/Sligh/Hatebears getting too far too fast.
Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker isn't that expensive in a deck that ramps like this. We were all considering Ugin, the Spirit Dragon a few months back for the same CC, and I tried it, but Bolas just hits so much harder. Vindicating anything troublesome in play, or just stealing anything big enough the threaten him. When he lands, it's always GG. Batterskull could shape into a second Wurmcoil Engine if the meta demands it, but it does bounce to avoid targeted removal, and is immune to board wipes. I could see myself blocking a Rhino/Tasigur with it for a net of 8 life gain, then re-equipping it. 9/9 vigilant lifelinking Darksteel Citadels are quite ridiculous.
Kolaghan's Command is interesting, though I worry I personally don't have too much to gain from it. I run few creatures, so it would be 2 damage plus discard most games? Artifacts don't seem to be all too common outside of Affinity? Though killing two affinity creatures would be fantastic for three mana...
As for attrition, the point is to get value whenever you can! Liliana of the Veil sits behind Damnation most of the time, or a creature, or an animated artifact, or with Keranos backup. Often enough I simply drop her to kill a creature, then discard and just have her sit there menacing unless I'm holding something I don't mind tossing. Crucible of Worlds lets me toss lands, for instance, without any ill effect. Getting the opponent down to topdecking is always fantastic, but she's mostly a two-for-one removal spell that can sometimes do even bigger things.
I could try Kolaghan's over Lili and Wurmcoil over Batterskull if my testing looks better for it though, and I'll keep those in mind. Any other cool new tools for us? Is Scapeshift still a problem w/o Dig through Time?
I get all your points. I kind of consider my recent experience with some other decks (namely: Infect, Grixis Delve(r), I even played U-Tron recently!) gives me some alternate point of views on tech that's available for Tezz. So the heavy red commitment Anger of the gods needs, I think I could see it totally be worth it in the context of this meta.
Hear me out: Anger is very well positioned right now. It would also preserve your Wurmcoils, instead of losing them to your own Damnation. Red also gives Stone Rain (or Molten Rain) effects, which are good against some very prevalent decks: Junk, Jund, Tron (our biggest challenge IMO). And Red also gives Blood Moon, which is good in this meta for the same reasons. Now, you? On 6-7-8 mana rocks, I can't see a day when you'd get screwed to your own Blood Moon.
Maybe it's time we shift away from a heavier B commitment toward R. Red just seems really good right now. Food for thoughts.
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Note: Darksteel Citadel retains the Artifact supertype under a Moon. If we go Moon, we need Fetches. Mana-base would need a complete overhaul, obv. Glimmervoid is a nice card though.
EDIT: Holy crap, this build has 20+ artifacts! lolz.
I really dont feel like mana rocks are in a great place right now in modern. All of the top tier decks right now are playing VERY VERY proactive games, with maybe Splinter Twin as the closest exception. So a turn 2 mana rock on the draw feels like it would be nearly an automatic loss to lots of decks.
-Grixis Delver can turn 2 Tasigur (also to note, tasigur in your list is likely to net you nothing but mana rocks when activated)
-Bloom Titan can straight up kill you on turn 2
-Jund runs more discard and liliana's and is VERY likely to be able to keep you off anything BUT mana rocks.
-Twin can still turn 4 you... turn 2 plays from twin are less exciting in general
-The Collected Company decks can be casting that spell on their turn 3, for elves it could mean a near lethal swing the next turn. For anafenza company there IS the possibility of a kill (or gain infinite life to be realistic).
-Affinity still has some super gross plays it can make... nothing new in the affinity world lately though
I think if you want to shift Tezzeret, steer clear of blue and head more into a B/R base. Something proactive and hopefully heavy hitting as early as possible (or much better control this way at least), or something that is EXTREMELY consistent as well as resilient (which its hard to be resilient to hate when you're playing artifacts).
I also fail to see how Grafdiggers Cage shuts down Bloom Titan... they dont play with the graveyard nor do they drop creatures from anywhere but their hand.
@HardKorr: I misread! I thought Summoner's Pact was actaully Summoning Trap. Grafdigger's Cage shuts off the trap. I guess I'm still just getting flashbacks from all the Emrakul Heights I kept seeing online.
I agree I don't think Tasigur is such a good plan for me. Though if you're standard is to win the game on turn 2, Tezzeret might not be the deck you're looking for. A turn 2 mana rock allows for turn 5 Damnation/Night of Souls' Betrayal, which has often allowed me to stabilize versus all-in aggro.
Bloom Titan can sometimes combo off on turn 2. Hence my twin Shadow of Doubt in the sideboard, as well as a 1/1 Torpor Orb split. If it was consistently that quick, it would have been banned a long time ago. I've actually been playtesting against that specific deck due to the hype I've read, and Shadow of Doubt in response to Summoner's Pact is game, since they'll probably lose on their upkeep. Torpor Orb slows them down enough to let me kill their Titan. Spellskite can steal their Slayer's Stronghold pump attempt if it comes down to it.
Vs. Collected Company, Grafdigger's Cage (for real this time!) completely blanks it. Then we have Damnation, Engineered Explosives, Night of Souls' Betrayal, and singleton creature kill. What else would you suggest? I haven't looked too closely yet.
Jund I haven't looked at yet, with whatever iteration they are running. Liliana allows me to choose what to pitch, and if they have enough cards in their opening hand to take away everything but my mana, I'm going to have a lot of time for some pretty favorable top decks for the next several turns!
Affinity is gross, as ever. However they are an excellent reason to include mana rocks, as getting a t3 Damnation can make or break that MU.
What would you think to recommend, as far as changes go? Or just a different deck entirely?
What would you think to recommend, as far as changes go? Or just a different deck entirely?
With a severe lack of good early plays (Baleful Strix Im looking at you) from B/U, I think that a pure U/B list is not the way to go unless you go deep on non-artifacts to attempt to control the game (Disrupting Shoal, Spell Pierce/Snare, Mana Leak, Damnation, Mana Leak, etc). Going that route makes Tezzeret extremely ineffective as a card (all abilities). There are even lots of splashes that are somewhat ineffective due to opening up mana base issues, and increasing painland damage.
Your mention of having "pretty favorable top decks" against jund... thats pretty not true when you're looking at 5-7 mana rocks (ie : do nothings) that you can draw where they start drawing (sometimes 2 a turn with Dark Confidant and you dont pressure their life total to capitalize) Kolaghan's Command, Lightning Bolt, Abrupt Decay, Olivia Voldaren (that can steal your wurm or bskull), and Liliana of the Veil against your low creature count.
I really think Kolaghan's Command maindeck of Jund and Grixis Delver (even some Grixis Twin lists) and then all the non-red black decks all end up running Stony Silence in the side as such a huge trump to a lot of Tezz decks we need a win-con that is NOT an artifact and doesnt actually rely on artifacts (other than a count such as Tezz ult).
Whether its really the best choice or not (and how much it can be expanded upon) the most recent list I've been toying with (and haven't got much testing in on) is :
This uses Monastery Mentor as its kill condition (with Tezz as backup/fuel), it has a ton of cantrips and dodges Kolaghan's Command blow outs pretty well (though swords + bskull are still targets). It ROLLS over to a Stony Silence pretty brutally (but white gives actual removal for such things) and also probably just flops against burn (especially Eidolon of the Great Revel, though again white allows for Timely Reinforcements and the like - Dragon's Claw is even an artifact for tezz / mentor).
It kind of steals from the idea of vintage mentor decks, but no Gitaxian Probe to help save life (might be worth including a couple though since burn is just gonna kill us anyway). I opted not to include Mox Opal in the end because while the artifact count is nice and high (26) they're almost all designed to just cycle away... making Metalcraft hard to obtain.
I'm working on a build with the Chromatic eggs as well. I'm running Tidehollow strix instead of swiftspear. Just need something to get in the way of a Goyf or Angler. I think the midrangey/Shouta build is the way to go. Forget searching for artifacts. I want Indestructible or Flying/Deathlink 5/5s on Turns 4-6 while leaving up dismember.
Round 1 vs a Budget RB Infect deck. (Think Kiln Fiend with the combat trick that gives a creature infect.)
I won the die roll and got out Batterskull early. G2 he ran me over. I had drown in sorrow in hand but was just a turn behind. G3 I got out double Skite right out of the gate.
In:
Drown in Sorrow
Far // Away
Out:
Wurmcoil x2
Round 2 vs Burn
G1 he got out double Eidelon. Between that and stumbbling a bit on colors I couldn't get there. G2 he mulled to 4. I ended up getting Tezz out and made some 5/5s. I ran out of artifacts and ticked up Tezz. He scooped when I ultimated Tezz. G3 he got me down to 1 after I dropped a Wurmcoil into a clear board but topdecked a land.
In:
3 Elixir
1 Drown
4 Spreading Seas
Out:
4 Chromatic Star
2 Chromatic Sphere
2 Thoughtsieze
Round 3 vs a budget UW hard control deck (Basically the RtR azorius standard deck. Aetherlings and a Sunblast Angel were his finishers.)
Game 1 was Tarpit beats all day long. He got off 3 Sphinxes Revelations in quick succession and the 2nd Aetherling was able to race me.
G2 I opened with a Strix into an Oblit off an egg that was countered and then Batterskull into Tezz. He just didn't have the counters. G3 I had another T2 Strix that got in for a bunch and I tapped out for a Wurmcoil he didn't have an answer for. He cast Supreme Verdict and Azorius charmed a token but it was really over once the Wurmcoil landed.
In:
3 Obliterators
Out:
Damnation
Far // Away
Wurmcoil
I couldn't go to Round 4 bc we got a late start and I have work this morning. I like the Deck, especially the against Burn. The UW player kept trying to counter the activated abliities and I think is more of an example to how bad control is rather than how good the deck is, though. The side board is a throughback from an earlier more contolling version but I think maybe the Obliterators are OK. I'm torn in general between the silver bullets vs something more transformational. Plan B instead of Plan A so to speak. The Obliterators speak to that and having 3 threats right in a row was too much for the U deck. I'm sold on 4 Skites Main. They have too much game against so much of the field. They were relevant in all my matches.
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Yea, I'm working on a modern "MUD" deck now and the only way to really realize it is using Grand Architect.
I agree with your points on taxing; one way I try to get around it is by using delve spells like Murderous Cut and Logic Knot. This led me to experiment with Mishra's Bauble as a delve enabler (in addition to 6 fetchlands). It replaces itself, gives you information and doesn't get taxed by Lodestone Golem. But yea, if you are going to play mainboard Lodestone and Thron, I'd recommend making Tezzeret the sideboard plan and siding out the taxing aspect game 2.
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In my tests of a generic list I was using I found that the taxing aspect either nearly locks out your opponent and you can just jam and win from there, or its too late / useless and you just die.
I think having more fast mana would be a much better route, leaving Tezz in the board for grindy matchups and be MUCH MUCH closer to an affinity deck that tops out at Lodestone Golem. I haven't worked out a list for that yet as it would be MUCH MUCH more touchy as you have more 0 and 1 CMC cards that you shut yourself off of with Chalice.
I've been toying around with this lately :
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Chromatic Star
4 Conjurer's Bauble
3 Engineered Explosives
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
3 Spellskite
4 Monastery Mentor
Utility
3 Path to Exile
2 Dismember
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Academy Ruins
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Celestial Colonnade
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Watery Grave
1 Godless Shrine
3 Island
1 Swamp
1 Plains
The idea is to be able to dig for a Monastery Mentor and then Tezz fuels more prowess triggers. There are 16 cantrip artifacts to facilitate this... worst case scenario (hopefully) is you can just 5/5 up some artifacts. Spellskite is in because... Spellskite! I haven't had a chance to test this out yet, so it probably needs some tweaks.
No Mox Opal because most of the artifacts dont stick around to provide metalcraft.
Only 2 colorless lands to hopefully not hiccup on colors, unsure of the manlands (count and number) figured 1-1 is good for now... might end up more since the deck is supposed to snowball, taking off turn 1 shouldnt be horrible.
Probably loses horribly to burn...
/e : Batterskull and Swords for high impact tezz hits that also trigger Prowess. Its very likely the deck just needs more threats and less cantrip artifacts.
Thirst for Knowledge % to hit artifact
Thanks for the comments! I didnt want to max out of PtE because as much as its a remove essentially anything spell, I didn't want to just have that incase some random off chance someone extirpate or surgical extractions them, for whatever odd reason. The capsule was just something to go with the academy ruins, incase i ever need it. And trading post as well if necessary.
If i were to cut down on colorless lands, what would you suggest? I wanted to keep at least two tectonic edges for whatever i may come up against, and the darksteel citadels serve as beaters with tezz's -1.
I do have the second damnation, I just put one of each in because i wanted to see which i color of doubles i could reliably hit on turn 3/4 better.
I just have the torpor orbs in there because there really arent any other value artifacts to put in, to be honest. I may just drop the artifact count and add in some counterspells or esper charms, to be able to get either more card advantage(esper charm) or be able to interact a little with some of the necessary evil spells (counters).
Modern:
Tezzeret
???
Legacy:
Imperial Painter aka. Strawberry Shortcake
Tezzeret, aka. Dack in Black
I would drop the reflecting pool and at least 1 citadel for a couple more fetches, that should allow you to fix your colors much easier. Maybe drop mystic gate too (colorless lands + filter lands = frown).
Thirst for Knowledge % to hit artifact
Creatures (4)
1x Spellskite (2) A
1x Wurmcoil Engine (6) A
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang (5B)
Planeswalkers (4)
4x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas (2UB)
Artifacts (15) (Total: 21)
4x Mishra's Bauble (0) A
1x Mox Opal (0) A
1x Pithing Needle (1) A
4x Dimir Signet (2) A
4x Talisman of Dominance (2) A
1x Batterskull (5) A
Instants/Sorceries (16)
1x Slaughter Pact (0)
3x Thoughtseize (B)
3x Inquisition of Kozilek (B)
2x Smother (1B)
1x Go for the Throat (1B)
1x Dismember (1BB)
2x Thirst for Knowledge (2U)
2x Damnation (2BB)
1x Murderous Cut (4B)
Lands (21)
4x Darksteel Citadel A
4x Mutavault
4x Blinkmoth Nexus
4x Polluted Delta
2x Watery Grave
2x Swamps
1x Island
I feel this list personally fits my playstyle, but as of late I've been contemplating putting in 4 Serum Visions to make my early hands more smooth. I've also considered trying to fit in 2-4 Mana Leaks to give me a hard counter game 1 to handle different problem cards I don't want hitting the board. I'd like any feedback I can get.
Sorry I can't comment on your deck much, it's a lot more in the Shouta style which I don't have a great deal of experience with.
As for the meta in general, I think Jund is going to be back on the rise from Abzan for Lightning Bolt against infect, elves, and all the other little dork decks. Also Grixis Delver has shown itself to be a big player, both these decks will probably be running Kolaghan's Command which really hurts any artifact based decks; kill your Ensnaring Bridge get back a creature is a brutal swing against us.
Modern:
Tezzeret
???
Legacy:
Imperial Painter aka. Strawberry Shortcake
Tezzeret, aka. Dack in Black
Thanks for the heads up on the meta shift, I'll try planning accordingly.
Damnation seems heavily primed to be awesome right now. I'm seeing a lot of decks that want to fill the board, and getting consistent positive value from your removal is important. I would recommend switching some of your 1 for 1 removal to get the full playset of black sweepers. Which to trade is going to be a meta call on your end, however.
I don't like Polluted Delta for your list. The life-loss is so important to us, and Ghost Quarter is so feasible for you, while also doing double duty against opposing man-lands and Tron strategies. After Polluted Delta is gone, It's your call if Watery Grave still has a place, but I would recommend giving Glimmervoid a try if you haven't already. Full range of mana, no pain.
As for the counter strategy, Mana Leak is not a hard counter, as it can be ignored either in the late game or by any deck that ramps sufficiently quickly (Tron, Scapeshift, Bloom Titan, Devotion). I personally run a one-of Cryptic Command, with some other counters in the sideboard depending on your meta. It might be more difficult with your manabase, however. Disdainful Stroke seems like a powerful possibility.
Gotta say that I'm not entirely sure what mileage you are getting out of Mishra's Bauble though. As a draw spell? A delve enabler for those 3 cards? It seems like it adds too little. Thirst for Knowledge is both an excellent draw spell and a delve enabler, for those EoT where you have mana up. It's also space I generally use for 'silver bullets', the little artifacts that ruin your opponent's day. Grafdigger's Cage, Tectonic Edge, etc. All meta-dependent, but it's these cards that steal games. The cage specifically seems well placed right now, to shut down Bloom Titan and mess with a lot of other cards.
So I might suggest trying out Thirst 3 & 4, a Tectonic Edge, and a silver bullet of your choice in there. Maybe drop Talisman 4 for another artifact, if you find yourself mana flooding.
Good Luck!
On Mishra's Bauble, it's a fantastic enabler both for Tezz (+1 consistency, free -1 target... that can cantrip if to be removed) AND for Thirst for Knowledge. Adding the Baubles to the build give us the artifact critical mass we need to really bring Tezz over the top.
However, there is a tempo loss involved, and it is less significant is your build packs instant speed stuff, than if it's all sorcery. That's why, Alabasteroth, I'd suggest you go ahead with the Mana Leaks (2-3) maybe over some number of Thoughtseize (lifeloss matters, you can still counter their big plays with Leak, or if they have big creatures, you should have a Damnation or Cut to deal with it. Max 5 targeted discard spells IMO, because tempo loss (AGAIN) AND they're an awful topdeck. Countermagic does the trick better. Get bluer). Also, I like the 2-of Thirst for knowledge. What I'd like to see in there, rather than Serum Visions, is Anticipate. Works with instant speed play.
If I were to play a Tezz deck right now, It would probably look like that.
EDIT: I don't think Smother kills all you wanna be killing right now. Between Rhinos and Tasigurs and Huntmasters and Olivia!
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
After looking at the top8s and a handful of articles and discussions, this is what I'm starting with right now. Love to hear your thoughts, as always!
2 Liliana of the Veil
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
Creatures (5)
2 Spellskite
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Batterskull
1 Wurmcoil Engine
Sorceries (6)
2 Thoughtseize
4 Damnation
Instants (6)
1 Smother
4 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Cryptic Command
Meta-Hate (6)
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Torpor Orb
1 Mox Opal
3 Talisman of Dominance
4 Dimir Signet
1 Crucible of Worlds
Land (21)
1 Island
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
4 Glimmervoid
3 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Academy Ruins
2 Sun Droplet
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Slaughter Games
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Torpor Orb
2 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
2 Counterflux
2 Shadow of Doubt
I'm still not sold on Nicol Bolas, as it's SO FRIGGIN EXPENSIVE. A second Wurmcoil would seem more viable to me. Also, Batterksull just gets killed by Rhinos, Tasigurs and Anglers, which is indeed sad but a fact. And now, Kolaghan's command is starting to see some serious play (Jund, Grixis Delver / Control), so it really hurts to 'Skull, too. Oh, Kolaghan's command. You can play the card, too.
EDIT: I think I'm shying away from Attrition strategies for Tezz (atm). Liliana is out, for me at least. In your case, trying to ramp up to Bolas or Wurmcoil, isn't she straining your ressources, hence nonbo-ing?
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
I've avoided Anger of the Gods due to it's harsh RR mana requirement, leaning mostly on Damnation as board wipes go. Grafdigger's Cage blanks Collected Company and Summoning Trap like effects, so that's why he's still around. I still like Smother for the cheap creature removal early game, I fear Terminate won't be available as consistently.. but it is much more versatile. Still gotta worry about Affinity/Sligh/Hatebears getting too far too fast.
Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker isn't that expensive in a deck that ramps like this. We were all considering Ugin, the Spirit Dragon a few months back for the same CC, and I tried it, but Bolas just hits so much harder. Vindicating anything troublesome in play, or just stealing anything big enough the threaten him. When he lands, it's always GG. Batterskull could shape into a second Wurmcoil Engine if the meta demands it, but it does bounce to avoid targeted removal, and is immune to board wipes. I could see myself blocking a Rhino/Tasigur with it for a net of 8 life gain, then re-equipping it. 9/9 vigilant lifelinking Darksteel Citadels are quite ridiculous.
Kolaghan's Command is interesting, though I worry I personally don't have too much to gain from it. I run few creatures, so it would be 2 damage plus discard most games? Artifacts don't seem to be all too common outside of Affinity? Though killing two affinity creatures would be fantastic for three mana...
As for attrition, the point is to get value whenever you can! Liliana of the Veil sits behind Damnation most of the time, or a creature, or an animated artifact, or with Keranos backup. Often enough I simply drop her to kill a creature, then discard and just have her sit there menacing unless I'm holding something I don't mind tossing. Crucible of Worlds lets me toss lands, for instance, without any ill effect. Getting the opponent down to topdecking is always fantastic, but she's mostly a two-for-one removal spell that can sometimes do even bigger things.
I could try Kolaghan's over Lili and Wurmcoil over Batterskull if my testing looks better for it though, and I'll keep those in mind. Any other cool new tools for us? Is Scapeshift still a problem w/o Dig through Time?
I get all your points. I kind of consider my recent experience with some other decks (namely: Infect, Grixis Delve(r), I even played U-Tron recently!) gives me some alternate point of views on tech that's available for Tezz. So the heavy red commitment Anger of the gods needs, I think I could see it totally be worth it in the context of this meta.
Hear me out: Anger is very well positioned right now. It would also preserve your Wurmcoils, instead of losing them to your own Damnation. Red also gives Stone Rain (or Molten Rain) effects, which are good against some very prevalent decks: Junk, Jund, Tron (our biggest challenge IMO). And Red also gives Blood Moon, which is good in this meta for the same reasons. Now, you? On 6-7-8 mana rocks, I can't see a day when you'd get screwed to your own Blood Moon.
Maybe it's time we shift away from a heavier B commitment toward R. Red just seems really good right now. Food for thoughts.
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Creatures (7)
3 Spellskite
1 Keranos, God of Storms
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Tasigur, The Golden Wang
Sorceries (5)
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Anger of the Gods
Instants (7)
2 Terminate
1 Thirst for Knowledge
2 Anticipate
2 Mana leak
Meta-Hate (7)
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Mishra's Bauble
1 Mox Opal
3 Talisman of Dominance
4 Dimir Signet
Land (whatever fits)
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
4 Glimmervoid
3 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Academy Ruins
2 Some fetches
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Blood Moon
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Torpor Orb
1 Crucible of Worlds
Note: Darksteel Citadel retains the Artifact supertype under a Moon. If we go Moon, we need Fetches. Mana-base would need a complete overhaul, obv. Glimmervoid is a nice card though.
EDIT: Holy crap, this build has 20+ artifacts! lolz.
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
-Grixis Delver can turn 2 Tasigur (also to note, tasigur in your list is likely to net you nothing but mana rocks when activated)
-Bloom Titan can straight up kill you on turn 2
-Jund runs more discard and liliana's and is VERY likely to be able to keep you off anything BUT mana rocks.
-Twin can still turn 4 you... turn 2 plays from twin are less exciting in general
-The Collected Company decks can be casting that spell on their turn 3, for elves it could mean a near lethal swing the next turn. For anafenza company there IS the possibility of a kill (or gain infinite life to be realistic).
-Affinity still has some super gross plays it can make... nothing new in the affinity world lately though
I think if you want to shift Tezzeret, steer clear of blue and head more into a B/R base. Something proactive and hopefully heavy hitting as early as possible (or much better control this way at least), or something that is EXTREMELY consistent as well as resilient (which its hard to be resilient to hate when you're playing artifacts).
I also fail to see how Grafdiggers Cage shuts down Bloom Titan... they dont play with the graveyard nor do they drop creatures from anywhere but their hand.
Thirst for Knowledge % to hit artifact
I agree I don't think Tasigur is such a good plan for me. Though if you're standard is to win the game on turn 2, Tezzeret might not be the deck you're looking for. A turn 2 mana rock allows for turn 5 Damnation/Night of Souls' Betrayal, which has often allowed me to stabilize versus all-in aggro.
Bloom Titan can sometimes combo off on turn 2. Hence my twin Shadow of Doubt in the sideboard, as well as a 1/1 Torpor Orb split. If it was consistently that quick, it would have been banned a long time ago. I've actually been playtesting against that specific deck due to the hype I've read, and Shadow of Doubt in response to Summoner's Pact is game, since they'll probably lose on their upkeep. Torpor Orb slows them down enough to let me kill their Titan. Spellskite can steal their Slayer's Stronghold pump attempt if it comes down to it.
Vs. Twin: Thoughtseize, Torpor Orb, Spellskite, Smother, Engineered Explosives, Cryptic Command. Post-Board, Slaughter Games, Counterflux, Glen Elendra Archmage, Night of Souls' Betrayal. Unless this deck has changed drastically since January, I've already been consistently beating Twin with my old build.
Vs. Collected Company, Grafdigger's Cage (for real this time!) completely blanks it. Then we have Damnation, Engineered Explosives, Night of Souls' Betrayal, and singleton creature kill. What else would you suggest? I haven't looked too closely yet.
Jund I haven't looked at yet, with whatever iteration they are running. Liliana allows me to choose what to pitch, and if they have enough cards in their opening hand to take away everything but my mana, I'm going to have a lot of time for some pretty favorable top decks for the next several turns!
Affinity is gross, as ever. However they are an excellent reason to include mana rocks, as getting a t3 Damnation can make or break that MU.
What would you think to recommend, as far as changes go? Or just a different deck entirely?
With a severe lack of good early plays (Baleful Strix Im looking at you) from B/U, I think that a pure U/B list is not the way to go unless you go deep on non-artifacts to attempt to control the game (Disrupting Shoal, Spell Pierce/Snare, Mana Leak, Damnation, Mana Leak, etc). Going that route makes Tezzeret extremely ineffective as a card (all abilities). There are even lots of splashes that are somewhat ineffective due to opening up mana base issues, and increasing painland damage.
Your mention of having "pretty favorable top decks" against jund... thats pretty not true when you're looking at 5-7 mana rocks (ie : do nothings) that you can draw where they start drawing (sometimes 2 a turn with Dark Confidant and you dont pressure their life total to capitalize) Kolaghan's Command, Lightning Bolt, Abrupt Decay, Olivia Voldaren (that can steal your wurm or bskull), and Liliana of the Veil against your low creature count.
I really think Kolaghan's Command maindeck of Jund and Grixis Delver (even some Grixis Twin lists) and then all the non-red black decks all end up running Stony Silence in the side as such a huge trump to a lot of Tezz decks we need a win-con that is NOT an artifact and doesnt actually rely on artifacts (other than a count such as Tezz ult).
Whether its really the best choice or not (and how much it can be expanded upon) the most recent list I've been toying with (and haven't got much testing in on) is :
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Chromatic Star
4 Conjurer's Bauble
3 Engineered Explosives
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
3 Spellskite
4 Monastery Mentor
Utility
3 Path to Exile
2 Dismember
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Academy Ruins
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Celestial Colonnade
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Watery Grave
1 Godless Shrine
3 Island
1 Swamp
1 Plains
This uses Monastery Mentor as its kill condition (with Tezz as backup/fuel), it has a ton of cantrips and dodges Kolaghan's Command blow outs pretty well (though swords + bskull are still targets). It ROLLS over to a Stony Silence pretty brutally (but white gives actual removal for such things) and also probably just flops against burn (especially Eidolon of the Great Revel, though again white allows for Timely Reinforcements and the like - Dragon's Claw is even an artifact for tezz / mentor).
It kind of steals from the idea of vintage mentor decks, but no Gitaxian Probe to help save life (might be worth including a couple though since burn is just gonna kill us anyway). I opted not to include Mox Opal in the end because while the artifact count is nice and high (26) they're almost all designed to just cycle away... making Metalcraft hard to obtain.
Thirst for Knowledge % to hit artifact
4 Polluted Delta
2 Watery Grave
2 Sunken Ruins
5 Swamp
2 Island
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Academy Ruins
4 Darksteel Citadel
Creatures
4 Tidehollow Strix
4 Spellskite
1 Batterskull
2 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Mox Opal
2 Chromatic Sphere
4 Chromatic Star
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Thoughtseize
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Dismember
1 Damnation
1 Far // Away
1 Drown in Sorrow
3 Elixir of Immortality
1 Far // Away
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Phyrexian Obliterator
4 Spreading Seas
1 Steel Sabotage
Round 1 vs a Budget RB Infect deck. (Think Kiln Fiend with the combat trick that gives a creature infect.)
I won the die roll and got out Batterskull early. G2 he ran me over. I had drown in sorrow in hand but was just a turn behind. G3 I got out double Skite right out of the gate.
In:
Drown in Sorrow
Far // Away
Out:
Wurmcoil x2
Round 2 vs Burn
G1 he got out double Eidelon. Between that and stumbbling a bit on colors I couldn't get there. G2 he mulled to 4. I ended up getting Tezz out and made some 5/5s. I ran out of artifacts and ticked up Tezz. He scooped when I ultimated Tezz. G3 he got me down to 1 after I dropped a Wurmcoil into a clear board but topdecked a land.
In:
3 Elixir
1 Drown
4 Spreading Seas
Out:
4 Chromatic Star
2 Chromatic Sphere
2 Thoughtsieze
Round 3 vs a budget UW hard control deck (Basically the RtR azorius standard deck. Aetherlings and a Sunblast Angel were his finishers.)
Game 1 was Tarpit beats all day long. He got off 3 Sphinxes Revelations in quick succession and the 2nd Aetherling was able to race me.
G2 I opened with a Strix into an Oblit off an egg that was countered and then Batterskull into Tezz. He just didn't have the counters. G3 I had another T2 Strix that got in for a bunch and I tapped out for a Wurmcoil he didn't have an answer for. He cast Supreme Verdict and Azorius charmed a token but it was really over once the Wurmcoil landed.
In:
3 Obliterators
Out:
Damnation
Far // Away
Wurmcoil
I couldn't go to Round 4 bc we got a late start and I have work this morning. I like the Deck, especially the against Burn. The UW player kept trying to counter the activated abliities and I think is more of an example to how bad control is rather than how good the deck is, though. The side board is a throughback from an earlier more contolling version but I think maybe the Obliterators are OK. I'm torn in general between the silver bullets vs something more transformational. Plan B instead of Plan A so to speak. The Obliterators speak to that and having 3 threats right in a row was too much for the U deck. I'm sold on 4 Skites Main. They have too much game against so much of the field. They were relevant in all my matches.