Smuggler's Copter: I really like Merfolk Branchwalker, and I think the card value is great, which is why I'm considering Smuggler's Copter. This is probably the worst card out of my considerations, and I know it's anti-synergistic with Experiment One and Aspect of Hydra, but it's possible (this is a very big if) that the card advantage is more important to search up the threats and answers I desperately need. Since we don't really need a lot of lands, I could simply discard those while looting. Merfolk has often had success with it, maybe Mono Green Stompy could too.
Shapers' Sanctuary: Like I said, there's a lot of control at my LGS, and Shapers' Sanctuary might just be the thing for me. For every threat they get rid of, I pretty much just draw up a new one. That way I won't run out of threats, but control decks might run out of answers. This is a sideboard card, obviously.
Heroic Intervention: In some control matchups, like Jeskai control, I either win or lose, and that depends on whether or not my opponent has a boardwipe or not. They can't really out-value our deck with one for one answers, but a boardwipe will set us back to zero. The real question I have is whether I should play Heroic Intervention or play more creatures that are resilient to boardwipes (I already run Strangleroot Geist, regenerating Experiment One can be relevant, and I'm thinking about Kitchen Finks). Rhonas the Indomitable seems like it could replace Dungrove Elder, even if I'm running a lot of Forests.
In general it's a nice deck but I'd make some changes:
Branchwalker never surprised me; yes, that's a quite good card but I don't think that fits well in our deck. A 2/1 for 2 which COULD be a vanilla 3/2 is not the best 2 drop we need... I'd put there a Garruk's companion instead which has trample and gives devotion for the aspects. Moreover I'd take off 1 treetop for 1 more rancor. I would suggest Rhonas instead of Dungrove, but if you play against a lot of removal decks the Elder can resist even against a path. Speaking of Heroic Intervention, I'd certainly add a 2x in the sideboard instead of adding more resilient creatures like kitchen finks, cause it's more important to keep a huge presence on the board (3/3 e1, trampling 3/2 companions, ecc) instead of having a lot of undying creatures IMHO.
Oh and maybe add at least 2x of Blossoming Defence, they saved me a lot of times against control decks!
Branchwalker never surprised me; yes, that's a quite good card but I don't think that fits well in our deck. A 2/1 for 2 which COULD be a vanilla 3/2 is not the best 2 drop we need.
While I agree with you that Branchwalker isn't what we need... when it 'hits' it's a little better than a vanilla - it's a creature with a +1/+1 counter on it. Which Avatar of the Resolute likes more than he likes vanilla 3/2s.
It also provides some card selection too, though that's a minimal effect in this deck (maybe if you're flooded with boost instants you take the opportunity to pitch an explored boost instant in hope of putting the creature you need as your next draw?).
What are our answers to death's shadow? I usually just lose against that. I usually do very well at tournaments when I don't see a lot of it.
DS is a tough matchup for us. A friend of mine plays the jund version of that deck and I figured out what we probably need in the sideboard to try to beat them: I use Blossoming Defense, Vines, Heroic Intervention and Autumn's Veil to protect our creatures from Fatal Push and other removals, and to fight the Death Shadows I play 1x of Bow of Nylea (which is only useful during attack, for deathtouch) and I replace the dryads with Wasteland Viper which can transform our creature chump blocked by DS in a Fatal Push for them (using bloodrush).
However I think that our main plan is to wait until they almost kill themself and then attack with a single big swing, so you have to protect your creatures, cast them as many as possible and keep your aspects or vines for big damage.
Hey guys, finally got to play amic's deck last night in a modern tournament. It didnt go as well as I had hoped, but that is to be expected when you play a new deck for the first time. I played against Eldrazi tron, merfolk, U/B control, and humans. The tron matchup was a race and the match went to time, but I held out and got the win. Merfolk was interesting, but he managed to flood the board both games and I couldnt catch up. U/B Control was a tough one, and not one I knew how to side against(I am still missing 2x Choke, 2x Gaddock Teeg, and 2x Kitchen Finks). Humans was also an interesting matchup, and one I was definitely not prepared for. I finished 1-3, but I learned a ton about how the deck plays and works. Once I get the remaining SB cards, I am pretty confident that I can win against those decks that gave me trouble.
What are our answers to death's shadow? I usually just lose against that. I usually do very well at tournaments when I don't see a lot of it.
DS is a tough matchup for us. A friend of mine plays the jund version of that deck
From what I've seen, Jund Death's Shadow tends to play Temur Battle Rage... when decks pack that, it's a good idea to keep in mind that you can cast Vines of Vastwood on your opponent's Shadow to counter the Temur Battle Rage.
It seems that Grixis Death's Shadow builds, not running TBR, are more prevalent nowadays though.
I know this deck is all about keeping it cheap, but has anyone ever considered just a small black splash to the mana base and just throwing in fatal push and adding dismember to the SB. I mean that would seem to be a way to combat death shadow without sacrificing much. Heck I wouldn't even suggest any black or g/b creatures considering that stompy has enough efficient creatures already.
From what I've seen, Jund Death's Shadow tends to play Temur Battle Rage... when decks pack that, it's a good idea to keep in mind that you can cast Vines of Vastwood on your opponent's Shadow to counter the Temur Battle Rage.
Yeah, you're right, I had that in mind but forgot to wrote it in the previous message.
What are our answers to death's shadow? I usually just lose against that. I usually do very well at tournaments when I don't see a lot of it.
Another answer to DS could be Mindcrank, but I don't know if it's worth because works well only against DS... I'd rather add other useful cards in the side
Personally, I think Kitchen Finks works best, simply because it is so effective against non-path removal, it gains us life (which can help us in crucial situations) and can chump-block death's shadows. It may not seem perfect for the situation, but the reason they keep winning against us is because they keep doing one-for-ones with Fatal Push, Kolaghan's Command, etc. However, it's nearly impossible to out-value Kitchen Finks when you don't have Path to Exile. Also, Kitchen Finks isn't dedicated to DS, it helps us out in many matchups, like burn.
Bad idea. You can not use it to mill effectively and all it dose is make fuel for snapcasters goyfs and delve creatures. Against deathshadow use deathtouch creatures and heavy removal. ( This is hard before slashing a Color but still doable.) Also running Dryad millitants and scooze (at least three of each in your 75) stops them using their Gy to effectively cast angular and use snapcaster. Which makes up alot of there deck. Because deathshadow decks fall (somewhat) into the "heavy removal mid-range" archtype shapers sactiraty and blossoming defence should also be considered.
Yeah I forgot about snaps and goyfs. I think a 2x of Blossoming Defence is a must nowadays just because Vines are not enough to protect our creatures.
Could be Nature's Way a viable option to fight an early DS and then trample them off?
Don't most Death's Shadow decks pack enough removal or countermagic that such a plan is doomed? If they can either counter your Nature's Way or respond with removal on your creature that you're targeting with Nature's way, you're boned.
Once you actually stick a predator ooze though, your chances of losing go way down. And they continue to drop as the ooze grows out of killing range from Liliana and brutality.
I once had a grixis shadow opponent scoop to a turn 2 predator ooze + turn 3 rancor.
Absolutely, predator ooze slows your game down compared to leatherback baloth, but it is so much harder to deal with and will eventually overtake any board state if given enough time. As long as you can protect it from path to exile, then it is far and away your best answer to removal heavy decks.
The only time I'd worry about death's shadow is if they run temur battle rage, which is pretty rare these days. But even if they do, vines of vastwood is a natural counter to that spell.
Been tweking our old stampy list for new cards. Haven't gotten to do much testing but i think narnam renegade and old growth dryads could be great additions to the deck. Thoughts?
They’ve already been discussed several times. General impression is that Narnam Renegade is good, particularly in builds that splash another color for removal and so are running fetches and triggering revolt regularly. General impression of OGD is strongly negative - ramping / fixing your opponent’s mana for them is usually going to hurt you more than the above curve creature helps.
Fair, didn't see them discussed. So few decks run enough basics to take full advantage of more than one ogd, at 1 mana it evolves ex1 again and being above curve is most of what this deck cares about. Mana bases in modern rarely get color screwed anyway so 'fixing' their mana is not really relevant...
I'm not saying you shouldn't test or use it, but I greatly disagree with your statements on Old-Growth Dryads.
Where it might be true that mana fixing isn't that relevant, it can still help an opponent (colour-wise) if you give them a free basic of their choice.
I disagree on your point where you say that not many decks run more than one basic/enough basic to take advantage of more than one free basic. There are very few decks that do not run 2+ basics. The only decks that I know run 1 basic is affinity and lantern control, all the other relevant modern decks run more.
The next point is decks handling more than one OGD. I do not know how many you have in mind running, but most people wanted to use it as a 2-of, for it to be 1-drop number 9 and 10. If you want to run 4, you definitely will have opening hands with 1 or 2 of them, and as is with Path to Exile, unless it is really really needed, you do NOT want to ramp your opponent before turn 4, maybe turn 3 but even that is very risky. Most decks get a big advantage when they get ramped early, and stompy is a deck that wants to win as soon as possible, so holding OGD in your hand until turn 3-4 makes it a late play. If you run 4, however (or at least play more than 1 in a match, as you say), you do not really have a choice but play them early, thus ramping your opponent into having 4 mana turn 3, which is scarily powerful for a lot of decks. Eldrazi-tron, normal tron, UWx control, Scapeshift and storm are all decks that love getting more mana from an OGD, even if it's just one, and those are just decks from the top of my head. I myself also play BW tokens, and to be able to play a Sorin, Solemn Visitor or a Gideon, Ally of Zendikar on turn 3 is just insane.
The last point you make is about the usefulness of OGD, and what the deck cares about. It certainly does evolve E1, which obviously is really good. However, that is just one card in the deck, and while synergy is a big theme in our deck, it being a 3/3 that ramps our opponent and doesn't really have any resilience is just a big downside. Speaking of resilience...
Being above curve is what our deck cares about. While that is true to a certain extent, another big theme in our deck is resilience. E1 can regenerate sometimes, Strangleroot Geist comes back bigger and is one of our best cards by far, Rhonas the Indomitable almost only dies to Path, etc. OGD is just a 3/3, without resilience, without trample or another form of evasion, without an effect that hinders the opponent (like Dryad Militant or Scavenging Ooze).
A final note: people who play Path usually do that in their opponent's turn, which means they have a full turn without the opponent having the basic land advantage. OGD does not give that kind of delay. It cannot attack immediately, it does not have flash, so it's an even bigger downside than playing Path.
I'm sorry for the huge rant, but I just wanted to explain why I think OGD is not playable in our deck, or in modern in general.
I think that basically closes up the discussion about OGD. What I'm wondering is whether Narnam Renegade is worth playing in mono-green builds. And before anyone asks me, I am not buying fetches. I think the 1/2 stats with the deathtouch alone are enough to warrant an inclusion, even when revolt is not triggered.
If you're not playing with fetches, you might also want to look into Wasteland Viper. I don't know if you have considered the card or not, and I don't know which one is better, I'm just letting you know. (Also bloodrush deathtouch on a trampler is amazing)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
In general it's a nice deck but I'd make some changes:
Branchwalker never surprised me; yes, that's a quite good card but I don't think that fits well in our deck. A 2/1 for 2 which COULD be a vanilla 3/2 is not the best 2 drop we need... I'd put there a Garruk's companion instead which has trample and gives devotion for the aspects. Moreover I'd take off 1 treetop for 1 more rancor. I would suggest Rhonas instead of Dungrove, but if you play against a lot of removal decks the Elder can resist even against a path. Speaking of Heroic Intervention, I'd certainly add a 2x in the sideboard instead of adding more resilient creatures like kitchen finks, cause it's more important to keep a huge presence on the board (3/3 e1, trampling 3/2 companions, ecc) instead of having a lot of undying creatures IMHO.
Oh and maybe add at least 2x of Blossoming Defence, they saved me a lot of times against control decks!
G Mono Green Stompy G
UR UR Delver Prowess UR
URBGrixis DelverURB
RBWMardu PyromancerRBW
While I agree with you that Branchwalker isn't what we need... when it 'hits' it's a little better than a vanilla - it's a creature with a +1/+1 counter on it. Which Avatar of the Resolute likes more than he likes vanilla 3/2s.
It also provides some card selection too, though that's a minimal effect in this deck (maybe if you're flooded with boost instants you take the opportunity to pitch an explored boost instant in hope of putting the creature you need as your next draw?).
DS is a tough matchup for us. A friend of mine plays the jund version of that deck and I figured out what we probably need in the sideboard to try to beat them: I use Blossoming Defense, Vines, Heroic Intervention and Autumn's Veil to protect our creatures from Fatal Push and other removals, and to fight the Death Shadows I play 1x of Bow of Nylea (which is only useful during attack, for deathtouch) and I replace the dryads with Wasteland Viper which can transform our creature chump blocked by DS in a Fatal Push for them (using bloodrush).
However I think that our main plan is to wait until they almost kill themself and then attack with a single big swing, so you have to protect your creatures, cast them as many as possible and keep your aspects or vines for big damage.
G Mono Green Stompy G
UR UR Delver Prowess UR
URBGrixis DelverURB
RBWMardu PyromancerRBW
GMono Green StompyG
GWBoglesGW
From what I've seen, Jund Death's Shadow tends to play Temur Battle Rage... when decks pack that, it's a good idea to keep in mind that you can cast Vines of Vastwood on your opponent's Shadow to counter the Temur Battle Rage.
It seems that Grixis Death's Shadow builds, not running TBR, are more prevalent nowadays though.
Yeah, you're right, I had that in mind but forgot to wrote it in the previous message.
G Mono Green Stompy G
UR UR Delver Prowess UR
URBGrixis DelverURB
RBWMardu PyromancerRBW
Another answer to DS could be Mindcrank, but I don't know if it's worth because works well only against DS... I'd rather add other useful cards in the side
G Mono Green Stompy G
UR UR Delver Prowess UR
URBGrixis DelverURB
RBWMardu PyromancerRBW
Yeah I forgot about snaps and goyfs. I think a 2x of Blossoming Defence is a must nowadays just because Vines are not enough to protect our creatures.
Could be Nature's Way a viable option to fight an early DS and then trample them off?
G Mono Green Stompy G
UR UR Delver Prowess UR
URBGrixis DelverURB
RBWMardu PyromancerRBW
Deathtouch and indestructible creatures block death's shadow all day. And creatures with indestructible/undying/persist blank most of their removal.
This is especially true for predator ooze, which is one of the best creature against death's shadow (second only to [card]chameleon colossus/card]).
In order for them to kill the ooze, they need a very well timed collective brutality, discard spell, or Liliana, the last hope. You are playing enough creatures that Liliana of the veil shouldn't be an issue, and fatal push does nothing to the ooze.
Once you actually stick a predator ooze though, your chances of losing go way down. And they continue to drop as the ooze grows out of killing range from Liliana and brutality.
I once had a grixis shadow opponent scoop to a turn 2 predator ooze + turn 3 rancor.
Absolutely, predator ooze slows your game down compared to leatherback baloth, but it is so much harder to deal with and will eventually overtake any board state if given enough time. As long as you can protect it from path to exile, then it is far and away your best answer to removal heavy decks.
The only time I'd worry about death's shadow is if they run temur battle rage, which is pretty rare these days. But even if they do, vines of vastwood is a natural counter to that spell.
Seriously. Try the ooze. It's delicious.
http://docker2.deckedbuilder.com:3001/d/343847
Where it might be true that mana fixing isn't that relevant, it can still help an opponent (colour-wise) if you give them a free basic of their choice.
I disagree on your point where you say that not many decks run more than one basic/enough basic to take advantage of more than one free basic. There are very few decks that do not run 2+ basics. The only decks that I know run 1 basic is affinity and lantern control, all the other relevant modern decks run more.
The next point is decks handling more than one OGD. I do not know how many you have in mind running, but most people wanted to use it as a 2-of, for it to be 1-drop number 9 and 10. If you want to run 4, you definitely will have opening hands with 1 or 2 of them, and as is with Path to Exile, unless it is really really needed, you do NOT want to ramp your opponent before turn 4, maybe turn 3 but even that is very risky. Most decks get a big advantage when they get ramped early, and stompy is a deck that wants to win as soon as possible, so holding OGD in your hand until turn 3-4 makes it a late play. If you run 4, however (or at least play more than 1 in a match, as you say), you do not really have a choice but play them early, thus ramping your opponent into having 4 mana turn 3, which is scarily powerful for a lot of decks. Eldrazi-tron, normal tron, UWx control, Scapeshift and storm are all decks that love getting more mana from an OGD, even if it's just one, and those are just decks from the top of my head. I myself also play BW tokens, and to be able to play a Sorin, Solemn Visitor or a Gideon, Ally of Zendikar on turn 3 is just insane.
The last point you make is about the usefulness of OGD, and what the deck cares about. It certainly does evolve E1, which obviously is really good. However, that is just one card in the deck, and while synergy is a big theme in our deck, it being a 3/3 that ramps our opponent and doesn't really have any resilience is just a big downside. Speaking of resilience...
Being above curve is what our deck cares about. While that is true to a certain extent, another big theme in our deck is resilience. E1 can regenerate sometimes, Strangleroot Geist comes back bigger and is one of our best cards by far, Rhonas the Indomitable almost only dies to Path, etc. OGD is just a 3/3, without resilience, without trample or another form of evasion, without an effect that hinders the opponent (like Dryad Militant or Scavenging Ooze).
A final note: people who play Path usually do that in their opponent's turn, which means they have a full turn without the opponent having the basic land advantage. OGD does not give that kind of delay. It cannot attack immediately, it does not have flash, so it's an even bigger downside than playing Path.
I'm sorry for the huge rant, but I just wanted to explain why I think OGD is not playable in our deck, or in modern in general.