If your Avatar doesn't land as at least a 4/3 you're doing it wrong.
By the time the stack clears after you've played a 3-mana 5/5 creature, your t1 experiment one is likely 4/4 as well.
Your meta must not play much in the way of removal. My Experiment One almost never gets more than one counter on it before getting bolted, pathed, or pushed. If my avatar does land with +1's on it, it's generally the next one to die.
Thanks for quite a write up response. I agree on Hydra seemed almost win-more as it would only be OP when opponent it not removing any threats. If it gave trample as well would make a bit more sense.
When I originally saw list I thought you were running Greenwheel Liberator as I had considered it for modern due to 4/3 semi consistent turn 2 is pretty sweet (albeit boltable). Not a hard sell for me to try Rampager, as noted it was a bit of a pet card of mine when was originally releasssed
Why didn't think copter made a ton of sense is not much you wanna chuck aside from maybe extra lands, and you still need to crew it. Other decks I've used in either have expectation of dead cards, or value like Lingering SOuls. Main advantage here would be evasion. When you noted "we have some lifegain" I was confused but now realized forgot about ooze (and lesser extent Dromoka's First ability vs. burn). Lifelink was a big reason I mentioned Harvester as I could see it as being a good attrition win vs fair creature decks. I suppose a big negative on any vehicle is Kolaghan's Command getting you two for 1'd (though not much dying to 2 damage so more likely card discard).
Have been using Voice a lot in kiki combo and now saheeli evolution. I don't think its great here more because only have 8-9 sources for W turn 2. Also with your focus heavily on counters it doesn't synergize with that. Though the awesome play in evo is turn 3 evolution the voice into rallier use rallier to return voice and you have 8 power across three creatures (and one recurs) Would be funny vs U control post board to go turn 1 Dryad Militan, turn 2 Voice of Resurgence, turn 3 Prowling Serpopard
I think Krosan only probably needed vs like U tron for chalice, normal eldrazi tron and Sun and Moon can just play any normal artifact fate. Manglehorn is interesting fits the theme, pretty sure old stompy used to use sex monkeys (as was alias) at one point: Uktabi Orangutan. I know for saheeli its whether to use reclamation sage or manglehorn for the SB slot.
I'm not looking for deck to be tier 1 awesomesauce. I'm actually putting together a range of decks to be able to playtest with and also teach my fiancee. This deck I see as much more her style as reckless abandon and turning cards sideways is more her thing and I love midrange probably the most. I like your list as I see it having a bit more game and not just run out of steam . The closest deck I see a bit to stompy is 3-4c humans where they can go for big burst value with CoCO and more ETB effects, but can be more susceptible to a wrath . Obviously the turn 1 play of each deck is similar with Experiment one vs Champion of the Parish
thanks for the feedback. I've added 2 lands and removed some 3 drops (will put dungroves in sideboard). I am going to take out 1 treetop and 1 oran-rief and just run 1 of each. Thanks for the feedback. Any suggestions on good sideboard cards?
thanks for the replys guys,but I was actually suggesting I move dismember to the sideboard. And asking what woul be the best creature or pump spell to replace it.
Hey amicdeep speaking of black splash wondering if you (or anyone who can) could shed some light. I fooled around with B/G counters in standard (pretty much off standard ATM) when aether revolt came out. Then looked into converting it to Frontier (which was just about to be determined to be dead format) and then a few people had a modern version to try. Mainly I think was Kevin at Rogue Deck Builder who got the ball rolling and it was a heavy focused counters deck which also incorporated an infinite combo with Rite of Passage + Walking Ballista + Hardened Scales / Winding Constrictor .
Then since march/april never heard anything more. From combo perspective I can see vizier/coco taking over there, but it seems its like the archetype just got forgotten. The former version had a bit of stompy feel and could have some crazy plays. Consistency was probably main issue and fact that if you didn't hit one of your counter enablers you would get out valued. Maybe it was just one of those decks that didn't match up well with DS and got shelved. If anyone knows more curious to know. I think it could also offer some interesting ideas of how to go more all in with counters strategy.
Depends on what you are trying to do because there isn't just one "Stompy" deck. It's just a catch-all term for any mono green or mostly green fast aggro strategy. I personally feel like the deck does best without any of the cards you listed, and I have tried both.
Hierarch/Mystic - What are you trying to ramp into? This deck wants to play a lot of 1 and 2 drops, so you don't really need ramp, and having ramp lowers your threat density.
CoCo - It can be hard to get to 4 mana before it matters, and again you are sacrificing something for CoCo, and you have to run more creatures. Running CoCo just doesn't leave enough room for impact spells like Vines of Vastwood, Rancor, Aspect of Hydra, etc.
I think the deck you are talking about with ramp and CoCo is more of a mid-range deck called Mono Green Devotion. Nothing wrong with that deck, but it's not "Stompy" per se.
Depends on what you are trying to do because there isn't just one "Stompy" deck. It's just a catch-all term for any mono green or mostly green fast aggro strategy. I personally feel like the deck does best without any of the cards you listed, and I have tried both.
Hierarch/Mystic - What are you trying to ramp into? This deck wants to play a lot of 1 and 2 drops, so you don't really need ramp, and having ramp lowers your threat density.
CoCo - It can be hard to get to 4 mana before it matters, and again you are sacrificing something for CoCo, and you have to run more creatures. Running CoCo just doesn't leave enough room for impact spells like Vines of Vastwood, Rancor, Aspect of Hydra, etc.
I think the deck you are talking about with ramp and CoCo is more of a mid-range deck called Mono Green Devotion. Nothing wrong with that deck, but it's not "Stompy" per se.
thanks for the info. if that's the case then my deck is good to go . one last thing guys what should my sb plan be if the meta is affinity, DnT and Death's Shadow? This is the whole deck with temporary sb plan.
FWIW, I'd personally drop 1 Treetop Village and add three forests to go up to 21 total as suggested. That puts you at 62, so yeah drop Elders or whatever you want. I'd also squeeze in a Rhonas.
Also, I prefer Naturalize over Nature's Claim because of Chalice of the Void on 1, which is the #1 thing you want to be able to destroy with it (along with Ensnaring Bridge). I'd use 4 total, in place of 2x Nature's Claim and 2 Creeping Corrosion.
I know I mentioned this several dozen pages back but it bears repeating - keep in mind that you can cast Vines of Vastwood on your opponent's creature to counter spells that target that creature. Which is to say, when they try to Temur Battle Rage their Shadow (for the flavors of Shadow that still run TBR), you VoV it in response and the Temur Battle Rage gets countered.
Sleeved up the W/G list and testing out so far I like it. One issue I notice not particular to your list is if you end up drawing several experiment one's as they don't synergize with each other at all. In general it seems like best card in opening 7 and worst top deck. The rampager seems very good overall here as it can help consitently get experiment one to 3/3 on turn 2, make it a 4/4 alone as you noted and also a good turn 2 with a renegade. Does feel like a 3rd rancor would be solid overall as sometimes just have wide small guys and rhonas takes a while to get down and activate
I'm looking for feedback on the deck - I am looking to make the deck more resilient, and think that 4 Kitchen Finks might be good to fit in. Also pretty unsure what to have in the sideboard. Most of the sideboard are actually cards I use in my green nykthos devotion deck and that deck gets alot more mana going through ramp, so I feel like I need more low cost sideboard cards.
Also interested in getting some Nature's Way - anyone have much success with these vs dismember for removal?
I feel like my deck is a bit less aggro and a bit more toward the midrange category as I am a bit top heavy with creature cost. Is this a bad thing?
Dismember:
Pros:
Only costs one actual mana
Instant speed, so can get manlands and vehicles
-Toughness can take down indestructibles and regenerators and avoids damage prevention
Cons:
Always costs 4 life if your deck can't produce black mana
Can't take down really big things (like low-life Death's Shadow)
Nature's Way:
Pros:
Never costs you life
Gives your creature vigilance and trample
If used with a Deathtouch creature, can take down anything regardless of toughness
Cons:
Always costs 2 mana
Sorcery speed means bad at dealing with manlands and vehicles
Doesn't deal with indestructible or regeneration or damage prevention
Dead card if you're creatureless
Offers opponent 2-for-1 opportunity if they respond with removal on your creature
All told it's largely meta-dependent. Also a better option for decks running deathtouch (Narnam Renegade) than those not.
Mono Green Devotion doesn't run CoCo. It runs primal command - some run chord of calling or genesis wave. Also Tooth and nail combo is along the same vein. But yeah CoCo would be garbage in Green Devotion.
I've had the same experience with Rancor. It's a super easy target, and opponents will cast removal on the creature I enchant with it to fizzle the enchantment and kill the creature at the same time. At the same time, it contributes to some of the deck's fastest starts as well.
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By the time the stack clears after you've played a 3-mana 5/5 creature, your t1 experiment one is likely 4/4 as well.
And if all of that fails, Rancor gets everything to 4 as well.
Your meta must not play much in the way of removal. My Experiment One almost never gets more than one counter on it before getting bolted, pathed, or pushed. If my avatar does land with +1's on it, it's generally the next one to die.
Budget Modern: GStompyG | R8-WhackR
Thanks for quite a write up response. I agree on Hydra seemed almost win-more as it would only be OP when opponent it not removing any threats. If it gave trample as well would make a bit more sense.
When I originally saw list I thought you were running Greenwheel Liberator as I had considered it for modern due to 4/3 semi consistent turn 2 is pretty sweet (albeit boltable). Not a hard sell for me to try Rampager, as noted it was a bit of a pet card of mine when was originally releasssed
Why didn't think copter made a ton of sense is not much you wanna chuck aside from maybe extra lands, and you still need to crew it. Other decks I've used in either have expectation of dead cards, or value like Lingering SOuls. Main advantage here would be evasion. When you noted "we have some lifegain" I was confused but now realized forgot about ooze (and lesser extent Dromoka's First ability vs. burn). Lifelink was a big reason I mentioned Harvester as I could see it as being a good attrition win vs fair creature decks. I suppose a big negative on any vehicle is Kolaghan's Command getting you two for 1'd (though not much dying to 2 damage so more likely card discard).
Have been using Voice a lot in kiki combo and now saheeli evolution. I don't think its great here more because only have 8-9 sources for W turn 2. Also with your focus heavily on counters it doesn't synergize with that. Though the awesome play in evo is turn 3 evolution the voice into rallier use rallier to return voice and you have 8 power across three creatures (and one recurs) Would be funny vs U control post board to go turn 1 Dryad Militan, turn 2 Voice of Resurgence, turn 3 Prowling Serpopard
I think Krosan only probably needed vs like U tron for chalice, normal eldrazi tron and Sun and Moon can just play any normal artifact fate. Manglehorn is interesting fits the theme, pretty sure old stompy used to use sex monkeys (as was alias) at one point: Uktabi Orangutan. I know for saheeli its whether to use reclamation sage or manglehorn for the SB slot.
I'm not looking for deck to be tier 1 awesomesauce. I'm actually putting together a range of decks to be able to playtest with and also teach my fiancee. This deck I see as much more her style as reckless abandon and turning cards sideways is more her thing and I love midrange probably the most. I like your list as I see it having a bit more game and not just run out of steam . The closest deck I see a bit to stompy is 3-4c humans where they can go for big burst value with CoCO and more ETB effects, but can be more susceptible to a wrath . Obviously the turn 1 play of each deck is similar with Experiment one vs Champion of the Parish
22 Forest
Creatures: 24
4 Dryad Militant
4 Experiment One
4 Kalonian Tusker
4 Leatherback Baloth
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Avatar of the Resolute
3 Aspect of Hydra
3 Dismember
4 Rancor
4 Vines of Vastwood
1 Bow of Nylea
3 Damping Matrix
2 Eyes of the Wisent
4 Feed the Clan
2 Loaming Shaman
3 Unravel the Aether
been running an extremely stock list for a while. but, I'm curious if I wanted to bench my dismembers, what spell should I replace it with.
again sorry for the confusion.
Here was his final decklist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy842wNz_ks .
Also a more affinity style deck actually put up some results and got featured: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/instant-deck-tech-hardened-constrictor-modern .
Then since march/april never heard anything more. From combo perspective I can see vizier/coco taking over there, but it seems its like the archetype just got forgotten. The former version had a bit of stompy feel and could have some crazy plays. Consistency was probably main issue and fact that if you didn't hit one of your counter enablers you would get out valued. Maybe it was just one of those decks that didn't match up well with DS and got shelved. If anyone knows more curious to know. I think it could also offer some interesting ideas of how to go more all in with counters strategy.
Depends on what you are trying to do because there isn't just one "Stompy" deck. It's just a catch-all term for any mono green or mostly green fast aggro strategy. I personally feel like the deck does best without any of the cards you listed, and I have tried both.
Hierarch/Mystic - What are you trying to ramp into? This deck wants to play a lot of 1 and 2 drops, so you don't really need ramp, and having ramp lowers your threat density.
CoCo - It can be hard to get to 4 mana before it matters, and again you are sacrificing something for CoCo, and you have to run more creatures. Running CoCo just doesn't leave enough room for impact spells like Vines of Vastwood, Rancor, Aspect of Hydra, etc.
I think the deck you are talking about with ramp and CoCo is more of a mid-range deck called Mono Green Devotion. Nothing wrong with that deck, but it's not "Stompy" per se.
thanks for the info. if that's the case then my deck is good to go . one last thing guys what should my sb plan be if the meta is affinity, DnT and Death's Shadow? This is the whole deck with temporary sb plan.
4 Experiment One
4 Dryad Militant
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Avatar of the Resolute
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Leatherback Baloth
4 Dungrove Elder
4 Rancor
4 Vines of Vastwood
3 Aspect of the Hydra
4 Dismember
Lands
3 Treetop Village
16 Forests
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Lifecrafter's Bestiary
2 Nature's Claim
2 Feed the Clan
2 Beast Within
2 Creeping Corrosion
2 Obstinate Baloth
2 Thrun the Last Troll
And 6 4-cost spells in the sideboard? That's way out. Whatever you're doing with sideboard for your specific meta, do it at lower mana costs.
FWIW, I'd personally drop 1 Treetop Village and add three forests to go up to 21 total as suggested. That puts you at 62, so yeah drop Elders or whatever you want. I'd also squeeze in a Rhonas.
Also, I prefer Naturalize over Nature's Claim because of Chalice of the Void on 1, which is the #1 thing you want to be able to destroy with it (along with Ensnaring Bridge). I'd use 4 total, in place of 2x Nature's Claim and 2 Creeping Corrosion.
Sleeved up the W/G list and testing out so far I like it. One issue I notice not particular to your list is if you end up drawing several experiment one's as they don't synergize with each other at all. In general it seems like best card in opening 7 and worst top deck. The rampager seems very good overall here as it can help consitently get experiment one to 3/3 on turn 2, make it a 4/4 alone as you noted and also a good turn 2 with a renegade. Does feel like a 3rd rancor would be solid overall as sometimes just have wide small guys and rhonas takes a while to get down and activate
4x Avatar of the Resolute
4x Dryad Militant
4x Experiment One
21x Forest
2x Groundbreaker
4x Leatherback Baloth
1x Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
4x Rancor
1x Rhonas the Indomitable
2x Scavenging Ooze
4x Strangleroot Geist
1x Treetop Village
4x Vines of Vastwood
1x Bow of Nylea
1x Choke
2x Creeping Corrosion
2x Dismember
2x Dungrove Elder
3x Feed the Clan
1x Hurricane
2x Obstinate Baloth
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
Link to deck @ TappedOut.net
Most up to date decklist.
Removed 2 taplands, added forests, sided the Dungrove Elders, added Rhonas.
I'm looking for feedback on the deck - I am looking to make the deck more resilient, and think that 4 Kitchen Finks might be good to fit in. Also pretty unsure what to have in the sideboard. Most of the sideboard are actually cards I use in my green nykthos devotion deck and that deck gets alot more mana going through ramp, so I feel like I need more low cost sideboard cards.
Also interested in getting some Nature's Way - anyone have much success with these vs dismember for removal?
I feel like my deck is a bit less aggro and a bit more toward the midrange category as I am a bit top heavy with creature cost. Is this a bad thing?
I like Nature's Way, but I haven't done a ton of testing with it. I have it in my board right now and don't run Dismember in the deck.
You're going to have to test and see what works for you. This isn't a solved deck.
Pros:
Only costs one actual mana
Instant speed, so can get manlands and vehicles
-Toughness can take down indestructibles and regenerators and avoids damage prevention
Cons:
Always costs 4 life if your deck can't produce black mana
Can't take down really big things (like low-life Death's Shadow)
Nature's Way:
Pros:
Never costs you life
Gives your creature vigilance and trample
If used with a Deathtouch creature, can take down anything regardless of toughness
Cons:
Always costs 2 mana
Sorcery speed means bad at dealing with manlands and vehicles
Doesn't deal with indestructible or regeneration or damage prevention
Dead card if you're creatureless
Offers opponent 2-for-1 opportunity if they respond with removal on your creature
All told it's largely meta-dependent. Also a better option for decks running deathtouch (Narnam Renegade) than those not.