I know the subject of splashes has been done to death, but I was thinking about a tiny minuscule black splash. No lands that don't produce green mana, and only one non green mana symbol on a permanent.
We could have Lotleth Troll as a two drop. If the game goes long the Troll plus Scavenging Ooze seems like it could be a nice little combo, plus the Troll has trample so we wouldn't lose that if we cut Avatar of the Resolute for it.
There's Golgari Charm in the sideboard, which is another answer to Twin, though a less permanent one than just killing their guy. It also has a lot of game against control as we can stop our board being wiped. I'm not sure if the -1-1 mode would ever be relevant outside the Twin match, maybe against tokens, but I think it would hurt our board too much most of the time.
We also get to upgrade our removal spell of choice to Abrupt Decay. Decay is a bit spendy for a budget deck, but it's useful to have around.
There's also Dreg Mangler, who's another hasty three drop to go alongside Boggart Ram-Gang, but my gut says he's no good. He gives us the same devotion as Dungrove Elder, so I guess it's a question of hexproof vs haste.
(Edit) The splash also allows for Darkblast in the side, which is an absolute beating against decks like Infect.
I don't know if It's worth doing, I don't know if it slows us down too much or reduces our consistency too much, but I think I'll be testing it out when I build the deck.
Golgari Charm and Abrupt Decay would certainly be nice to have, but I don't understand cutting Avatar of the Resolute for Lolteth Troll. You'd have to discard at least one creature to get the Troll to be as big as the base stats of Avatar without even considering the times Avatar comes down with 4 or 5 power. Two power for two mana and having to hold up B for the regeneration ability which is the only plausible advantage of the Troll isn't nearly good enough. Plus, Trolls make Aspect of Hydra worse.
Late game presence is one of the reasons I'm going to test running 4 Scooze in the main along with 4 Dungrove Elder. I think those two creatures are about the best late game options we could have (late-game being, like, turns 6 and 7, after that it might get tough for us no matter what). Loleth Troll doesn't seem to fit in. We want our creatures out on the board, not in the graveyard. Scooze is best when he's draining other graveyards, shrinking Goyfs and such. We need all the firepower we can get.
Do you really play only 18 lands and 2 oxydize Main deck ?
thay for noticing the typo fixed
yeah i did it worked , but the oxidize is cause i had no better options at the time, and oxidize didnt work
put oxidize in side and added second scooze with prize support and 1 prey uppon
So guys, is there some reason other than budget reasons that this deck doesn't play Tarmogoyf? If you happen to have a playset and want to play this deck, would it be just strictly better to play Tarmogoyf instead of any of the other creatures in this deck or what?
Tarmogoyf is pretty awful here. We don't put things in either players Graveyard with any regularity. Often Dryad Militant keeps Instants and Sorceries out of Graveyards. Scavenging Ooze eats all the creatures. We're really good against Tarmogoyf because of how small he stays in the games.
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Late game presence is one of the reasons I'm going to test running 4 Scooze in the main along with 4 Dungrove Elder. I think those two creatures are about the best late game options we could have (late-game being, like, turns 6 and 7, after that it might get tough for us no matter what). Loleth Troll doesn't seem to fit in. We want our creatures out on the board, not in the graveyard. Scooze is best when he's draining other graveyards, shrinking Goyfs and such. We need all the firepower we can get.
It's really kind of a tough deck to go late game with, and trying too much to cover that base causes you to water down where our advantage is: a ferocious start and beatdowns before a board wipe would matter. If that explosive start doesn't happen, then every turn brings us closer to their combo or control, in which case may as well scoop.
So guys, is there some reason other than budget reasons that this deck doesn't play Tarmogoyf? If you happen to have a playset and want to play this deck, would it be just strictly better to play Tarmogoyf instead of any of the other creatures in this deck or what?
It is intended as a bit of a budget deck. Plus Goyf benefits from a little different support package ... it's always, good, and an Aspect of Hydra or whatnot certainly makes him better. From the primer: "One of the advantages of Stompy in Modern is it's an inherently cheap deck that doesn't require any truly expensive cards. It's also fairly straightforward to play (although there is definitely a learning curve, and skill is required for optimal results). As such, if you're brand new to Modern and are looking for a starting point, this is a great one." Goyf would break that rule. My daughter plays Dredgevine and Stompy, primarily because of this and its simplicity.
As far as the late game is concerned, sequencing creatures in such a way that Avatar Of The Resolute is a 5/4 or bigger is clutch, as well as having access to Scavenging Ooze in general. I'm always still very much in the game late, except against a few of the other creature decks that go bigger as they go wider (Wilted Abzan and Merfolk.)
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SOFTW4RE: Against Infect I usually deploy 2 creatures on the first two turns, then ride removal and effective blocking until I can kill them. Keep tabs on their Graveyard count due to Become Immense. Sometimes playing a Scavenging Ooze to prevent it's casting is better than whatever else you may have intended.
Feed the Clan is incredibly helpful against burn. Buys you some time.
Here's what we got to after Modern Sunday. Daughter plays this one and loves it. Beat up on my Abzan Company and Grixis Tasigur Twin last night too. She got them 2-1 each (I comboed on my wins). We had 17 forests last night, some of her other losses were from mana floods so we pulled one back. Seemed to help. Tasigur was ineffective after she sided in the swords, and I hated seeing my twins go into the GY. And there's nothing worse than getting guttural responsed by mono-green when you're playing blue. Dryad Militant makes the Grixis match even better.
Garruk is helpful and ever so often Overrun gets those few points to flood over or otherwise clear of some clutter on the opponent's board. Especially with too many chump blockers on the other side. Garruk has Overrun built in, but it's his ult. Only problem, he also helps you get your whole hand out quick. Of course, Stompy wants that explosive start. But, seems we need some card draw? Maybe a couple Gift of the Gargantuan or Hunter's Insight? Inspiring Call if you play Avatar timely? Wildsize? Is there a cheaper, better instant green draw I'm overlooking?
I don't like Feed The Clan. Basically, it buys you a turn, but takes an entire turn to cast. At it's best, it's an extra combat step. They're already bringing in every copy of Skull Crack and Atarka's Command they have access to since we tap Forests. I don't want to make their cards better. I would rather them muddle their own agenda with 2 CMC spells and have the aggressive advantage than play a narrow counterspell. If you're consistently able to fire it for 10 life, then you're probably in the advantaged position anyway (with Rancor on a creature or Leatherback Baloth, or absolutely out of reach with an active Scavenging Ooze.) I've just never felt it was necessary. If Goblins picks up steam, it may be worth-while there, but I'm not 100% on that, either.
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in my testing experience based on the tournament i did with the deck aspect of the hydra was one of the best cards to have and i am wondering why people are not running 4, i understand main boarded dismember butt my meta is a lot less creature based and more non-interactive decks, twin, and control based. also i added cards to my sideboard that i found in my collection including display of dominance and polukranos and will report back on testing polukranos for creature decks and mid range.
Hey guys, I've been interested in the deck and decided a Collected Company version of it. I believe CoCo with Mono-Green Stompy is faster and more resilient compared to elves or pod since this deck does not need to combo at all and CoCo serves either to refill the board at EoT or put more pressure EoT - either way, it perfectly suites this decks playstyle, in my opinion. So here's where I'm at:
Sideboard wise, I'm leaning on for a little splash of W (Loxodon Smiter) against control and discarders, hence I'll be using a full set of Temple Gardens but in no means of changing the whole Stompy mantra.
With my sideboard list, I opted to remove Aspect of Hydra and stayed with Rancor because it can give a lot of creatures that game-ending reach.
Honestly I'm trying to fit in either Mystic Enforcer or Overwhelming Stampede with Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx to serve as ramp but I think the creatures alone can take the game.
Please don't make crap up. This is such an obvious word vomit it's ridiculous. Something about the internet and people thinking they need to say something to fit in..
4 white sources aren't nearly enough to reliably cast Smiter when you want to; you'd want to have about 12 white sources to reliably cast Smiter on turn 3.
You haven't really replaced Aspect of Hydra with Rancor because the stock list also plays Rancor; the actual exchange is Aspect for Collected Company. To support Collected Company you only have 22 mana sources and no acceleration meaning you're likely not on the mana for it before turn 5-6 and casting it at that time will likely mean you are completely tapping out and leaving your team exposed to instant speed removal.
I think you'll probably have more luck focusing on the first five turns of the game over a spell to help in an extended game where you are at a severe disadvantage. Aspect of Hydra is essentially the entire reason to play Stompy, it is the irreplaceable power card which regularly finishes games giving +5/+5 or more for one mana; if you're not going to play it, it is difficult to make the case to play Stompy over some kind of Zoo or Gruul variant other than for cost reasons.
I had thought playing something like overwhelming stampede might be what puts this over the top, but to be honest I've got stuck on 1-2 lands numerous times with this deck. I mean I would like to try it myself, but I would probably want to put the land count up a smidge.
@Fiddlyr
I actually have to disagree that Aspect of hydra is the reason to play stompy. Aspect on a lone creature can be pretty disappointing, especially one that doesn't have trample. Aspect suffers from the same problem that all the devotion bombs suffer from, they all require a half decent board state. When Aspect is good, it's really good, but when it's bad, it's pretty bad. I can't even tell you how many times I had an Aspect in hand that was just completely ineffective because it wasn't wearing a Rancor or it wasn't Avatar of the Resolute.
I would almost rather have something like Become Immense or Revenge of the hunted. Maybe if there was one more decent creature with trample.
I've played standard for a bit, and decided I wanted to go into Modern. After skimming this thread, this deck seems to have matchup problems with:
Tron, Bloom, Griselshoal, Elves, Merfolk. If there's anything else that I've missed or stated erroneously, feel free to correct me. I'm also only guessing on why these may be, because I've never encountered them.
Tron and Bloom give out monsters that are stronger than the removal available to this deck, but at the same time they rely on certain artifacts.
Do elves and Merfolk go wider than stompy can handle? In that case removing some Prey Upon might be a bad idea.
I'm not sure about Griselshoal. Stompy has Scavenging Ooze for graveyard hate, but it also has a creature that is hard to remove.
I'd like to try to "cover my bases" without killing what makes the deck good. The problem is that I can't really try the cards until I buy them, and I'd like to keep that kind of thing to a minimum.
Right now my list looks almost exactly like the OP's, with the following changes:
-1 Prey Upon
-1 Kitchen Fink
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Dungrove Elder
Am I best off with Pithing Needle, or is Oxidize better here?
It's funny that you mention some of the decks you just mentioned. In the few matchups I've played against Merfolk I've actually been able to overpower them. Maybe I just got god draws, but their creatures don't tend to get as big as ours as long as we are on curve. I also havn't had too much of a problem in racing tron because of the artifact hate in my sideboard. I pack +3 naturalizes, and +2 Apostle's Blessing. I've had the most difficulty with Abzan Collected Company(Bigger creatures and higher threat density), Burn, and probably tokens. There is nothing I hate more than someone play lingering souls when I don't have access to trample.
I had thought playing something like overwhelming stampede might be what puts this over the top, but to be honest I've got stuck on 1-2 lands numerous times with this deck. I mean I would like to try it myself, but I would probably want to put the land count up a smidge.
@Fiddlyr
I actually have to disagree that Aspect of hydra is the reason to play stompy. Aspect on a lone creature can be pretty disappointing, especially one that doesn't have trample. Aspect suffers from the same problem that all the devotion bombs suffer from, they all require a half decent board state. When Aspect is good, it's really good, but when it's bad, it's pretty bad. I can't even tell you how many times I had an Aspect in hand that was just completely ineffective because it wasn't wearing a Rancor or it wasn't Avatar of the Resolute.
I would almost rather have something like Become Immense or Revenge of the hunted. Maybe if there was one more decent creature with trample.
That's certainly a reasonable argument.
Where I was trying to go is to say, if Aspect isn't regularly very good, then it calls into question the need to play so many green mana symbols, which begs the question of splashes for better card quality, which slowly but surely gets you to Zoo. Or to put it differently, I wouldn't think playing Stompy was viable in an environment where Aspect wasn't regularly very powerful.
I agree Become Immense especially is a plausible consideration for the deck. I think part may be meta-dependent. In my meta, I am pretty regularly racing, at least in games I have a chance to win. Sure I have guys die to removal, but between Vines and the volume of guys we play, I don't end up at board states with one creature and one spell left in hand that often. Or when I do, I would have low expectation of winning that game regardless of what the one card was. On the other side, I play a lot of games where its turn 4 or 5 and I'm reasonably sure the game is over if my opponent gets another turn and Aspect for 5 or 6 on the unblocked guy of two or three finishes the job.
I am certainly not trying to argue though, in a metagame with tons of removal or viable blockers makes Aspect worse for sure and I'm sure those scenarios exist.
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Do you really play only 18 lands and 2 oxydize Main deck ?
Golgari Charm and Abrupt Decay would certainly be nice to have, but I don't understand cutting Avatar of the Resolute for Lolteth Troll. You'd have to discard at least one creature to get the Troll to be as big as the base stats of Avatar without even considering the times Avatar comes down with 4 or 5 power. Two power for two mana and having to hold up B for the regeneration ability which is the only plausible advantage of the Troll isn't nearly good enough. Plus, Trolls make Aspect of Hydra worse.
thay for noticing the typo fixed
yeah i did it worked , but the oxidize is cause i had no better options at the time, and oxidize didnt work
put oxidize in side and added second scooze with prize support and 1 prey uppon
It's really kind of a tough deck to go late game with, and trying too much to cover that base causes you to water down where our advantage is: a ferocious start and beatdowns before a board wipe would matter. If that explosive start doesn't happen, then every turn brings us closer to their combo or control, in which case may as well scoop.
Modern
URB Grixis Delver
GWB Abzan Company
RWB Mardu Burn
WB Martyr Proc
It is intended as a bit of a budget deck. Plus Goyf benefits from a little different support package ... it's always, good, and an Aspect of Hydra or whatnot certainly makes him better. From the primer: "One of the advantages of Stompy in Modern is it's an inherently cheap deck that doesn't require any truly expensive cards. It's also fairly straightforward to play (although there is definitely a learning curve, and skill is required for optimal results). As such, if you're brand new to Modern and are looking for a starting point, this is a great one." Goyf would break that rule. My daughter plays Dredgevine and Stompy, primarily because of this and its simplicity.
Modern
URB Grixis Delver
GWB Abzan Company
RWB Mardu Burn
WB Martyr Proc
Usual boarding vs. Infect:
-3 Aspect Of Hydra
-4 Rancor
-1 Scavenging Ooze
+4 Oxidize
+4 Skylasher
We run nearly identical lists. Have the Treetop Village been earning their slots? The 4th Dismember also adds win percentage against Infect.
Did the Tokens list play no copies of Sorin, Solemn Visitor or Bitterblossom? I almost definitely would've replaced Dismember with Display Of Dominance in that match-up.
Here's what we got to after Modern Sunday. Daughter plays this one and loves it. Beat up on my Abzan Company and Grixis Tasigur Twin last night too. She got them 2-1 each (I comboed on my wins). We had 17 forests last night, some of her other losses were from mana floods so we pulled one back. Seemed to help. Tasigur was ineffective after she sided in the swords, and I hated seeing my twins go into the GY. And there's nothing worse than getting guttural responsed by mono-green when you're playing blue. Dryad Militant makes the Grixis match even better.
Garruk is helpful and ever so often Overrun gets those few points to flood over or otherwise clear of some clutter on the opponent's board. Especially with too many chump blockers on the other side. Garruk has Overrun built in, but it's his ult. Only problem, he also helps you get your whole hand out quick. Of course, Stompy wants that explosive start. But, seems we need some card draw? Maybe a couple Gift of the Gargantuan or Hunter's Insight? Inspiring Call if you play Avatar timely? Wildsize? Is there a cheaper, better instant green draw I'm overlooking?
16 Forest
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Treetop Village
Spells
2 Aspect of Hydra
1 Bramblecrush
2 Dismember
2 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Overrun
4 Rancor
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Dryad Militant
2 Dungrove Elder
4 Experiment One
3 Leatherback Baloth
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Strangleroot Geist
2 Deglamer
2 Feed the Clan
2 Guttural Response
2 Beast Within
2 Glissa's Scorn
2 Bow of Nylea
1 Sword of Body and Mind
2 Sword of Feast and Famine
Modern
URB Grixis Delver
GWB Abzan Company
RWB Mardu Burn
WB Martyr Proc
Sideboard wise, I'm leaning on for a little splash of W (Loxodon Smiter) against control and discarders, hence I'll be using a full set of Temple Gardens but in no means of changing the whole Stompy mantra.
4 Experiment one
4 Dryad militant
4 Strangleroot Geist
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Leatherback Baloth
Spells (15)
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Rancor
4 Collected Company
3 Dismember
15 forest
4 Temple Garden
1 Cavern of Souls
2 treetop village
2 Choke
3 Loxodon Smiter
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
3 Skylasher
2 Reclamation Sage
3 Beast Within
With my sideboard list, I opted to remove Aspect of Hydra and stayed with Rancor because it can give a lot of creatures that game-ending reach.
Honestly I'm trying to fit in either Mystic Enforcer or Overwhelming Stampede with Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx to serve as ramp but I think the creatures alone can take the game.
Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated!
4 white sources aren't nearly enough to reliably cast Smiter when you want to; you'd want to have about 12 white sources to reliably cast Smiter on turn 3.
You haven't really replaced Aspect of Hydra with Rancor because the stock list also plays Rancor; the actual exchange is Aspect for Collected Company. To support Collected Company you only have 22 mana sources and no acceleration meaning you're likely not on the mana for it before turn 5-6 and casting it at that time will likely mean you are completely tapping out and leaving your team exposed to instant speed removal.
I think you'll probably have more luck focusing on the first five turns of the game over a spell to help in an extended game where you are at a severe disadvantage. Aspect of Hydra is essentially the entire reason to play Stompy, it is the irreplaceable power card which regularly finishes games giving +5/+5 or more for one mana; if you're not going to play it, it is difficult to make the case to play Stompy over some kind of Zoo or Gruul variant other than for cost reasons.
@Fiddlyr
I actually have to disagree that Aspect of hydra is the reason to play stompy. Aspect on a lone creature can be pretty disappointing, especially one that doesn't have trample. Aspect suffers from the same problem that all the devotion bombs suffer from, they all require a half decent board state. When Aspect is good, it's really good, but when it's bad, it's pretty bad. I can't even tell you how many times I had an Aspect in hand that was just completely ineffective because it wasn't wearing a Rancor or it wasn't Avatar of the Resolute.
I would almost rather have something like Become Immense or Revenge of the hunted. Maybe if there was one more decent creature with trample.
Tron, Bloom, Griselshoal, Elves, Merfolk. If there's anything else that I've missed or stated erroneously, feel free to correct me. I'm also only guessing on why these may be, because I've never encountered them.
Tron and Bloom give out monsters that are stronger than the removal available to this deck, but at the same time they rely on certain artifacts.
Do elves and Merfolk go wider than stompy can handle? In that case removing some Prey Upon might be a bad idea.
I'm not sure about Griselshoal. Stompy has Scavenging Ooze for graveyard hate, but it also has a creature that is hard to remove.
I'd like to try to "cover my bases" without killing what makes the deck good. The problem is that I can't really try the cards until I buy them, and I'd like to keep that kind of thing to a minimum.
Right now my list looks almost exactly like the OP's, with the following changes:
-1 Prey Upon
-1 Kitchen Fink
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Dungrove Elder
Am I best off with Pithing Needle, or is Oxidize better here?
UMerfolk
WDeath and Taxes
BRBliztkrieg
GStompy
- - -
"Rock is overpowered. Paper is fine."
-Scissors
That's certainly a reasonable argument.
Where I was trying to go is to say, if Aspect isn't regularly very good, then it calls into question the need to play so many green mana symbols, which begs the question of splashes for better card quality, which slowly but surely gets you to Zoo. Or to put it differently, I wouldn't think playing Stompy was viable in an environment where Aspect wasn't regularly very powerful.
I agree Become Immense especially is a plausible consideration for the deck. I think part may be meta-dependent. In my meta, I am pretty regularly racing, at least in games I have a chance to win. Sure I have guys die to removal, but between Vines and the volume of guys we play, I don't end up at board states with one creature and one spell left in hand that often. Or when I do, I would have low expectation of winning that game regardless of what the one card was. On the other side, I play a lot of games where its turn 4 or 5 and I'm reasonably sure the game is over if my opponent gets another turn and Aspect for 5 or 6 on the unblocked guy of two or three finishes the job.
I am certainly not trying to argue though, in a metagame with tons of removal or viable blockers makes Aspect worse for sure and I'm sure those scenarios exist.