Been following this thread for a while. Wanted to get into an inexpensive modern deck and see how I like the format. Going to my first event tonight at a LGS. I've only ever played super casual commander before so any tips for a newbie are appreciated. Here's the list I'll be running tonight:
Not sure what the meta is going to look like so I'll update the sideboard when I know more. So glad this thread has been here and the discussion has been current. It's been a huge help and I've had a lot of fun putting this deck together.
Pulled a Dismember for another deck, but considering just leaving it out, pulling a Tusker, and putting my two copies of Scavenging Ooze back into the main.
Thoughts?
(Decklist is in sig file)
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“Modern has provided us a non-rotating format that is far more accessible than Legacy or Vintage, but still retains many of the qualities that people enjoy in those formats—such as a more stable metagame, the ability to play and tweak the same deck week after week, and simply a much more powerful card pool than Standard.”
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
Scavenging Ooze has been insane for me and I've been packing 4 copies for the last month or so.
Looks like I'll be driving down to GP OKC if everything works out and I'll be playing Stompy. Presently set with this 75, always subject to change. The main 60 is super tight, right now.
I really started to hate the 1-of/2-of sideboard with this deck. I focused the board on the really difficult winnable match-ups where I want a slight edge (mostly the other creature-centric matches.) I haven't tested the board as it is now, yet. Strictly theoretical.
Only deck I think I might want some help against is burn with Feed The Clan. They're bringing in all the Skullcrack they can anticipating life gain, anyway. I'd rather them just board into a bunch of 2 mana spells and slow themselves down enough to kill turn 4. I'd rather face their creatures than their 1 mana spells.
Only match I feel really dead against is Soul Sisters/Martyr decks. Might miss my Relic Of Progenitus if I run into Living End.
I hated boarding in cards that didn't mesh with my own plan. Now all my sideboard either removes a blocker, protects a guy, or is a guy, which is where I want to be.
Go full zoo, go full Gruul, or go full stompy. We don't want to change the spirit of the deck, that's the reason I believe that the only splash that keep the spirit of stompy is BG, just for free dismember and abrupt decay, nothing more
Just sayin, mono green is much better than bg imo. I solidly beat bg stompy a couple of times, even once at gp. Shocks and fetches bring u down and without them ur splashes die. Ud also be quite vulnerable against blood moon with bg. Id prefer gr just for the burn as finishers and removal. Against blood moon ur duals are still very much usable too. However with red splash id might as well go gruul zoo so im mono as of now
Just wanted to share this tidbit from the FNM event I went to. It was my first event ever so there were a couple of terrible misplays on my part, but I won at least one game in every matchup despite that, and kept it close in every loss. This mono-green version is the business. Best part of the night, as I was shuffling up for the third game against a G/R Burn deck, one of the guys at the table next to us said, "Man, I gotta make a stompy deck!" And his opponent nodded in agreement. If nothing else, this thing is fun as hell to play.
ForceKin, I'm really curious about your deck. Boggart Ram-Gang is probably the most interesting choice -- part of me wonders why this is better than Kalonian Tusker vs. Leatherback Baloth, but I guess that the haste makes all of the difference? If Tusker came with a kicker that let you give it haste for 1 mana, wouldn't I always want to play that?
I'm also curious as to why you cut the Baloth's, but maybe the lack of haste just makes them too sensitive to removal? It's odd, because previously I'd sort of looked at the value of the Baloth as kindof the reason to make the deck in the first place.
Regardless, I'm very very interested in hearing how your deck does at GP!
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ForceKin, I'm really curious about your deck. Boggart Ram-Gang is probably the most interesting choice -- part of me wonders why this is better than Kalonian Tusker vs. Leatherback Baloth, but I guess that the haste makes all of the difference? If Tusker came with a kicker that let you give it haste for 1 mana, wouldn't I always want to play that?
I'm also curious as to why you cut the Baloth's, but maybe the lack of haste just makes them too sensitive to removal? It's odd, because previously I'd sort of looked at the value of the Baloth as kindof the reason to make the deck in the first place.
Regardless, I'm very very interested in hearing how your deck does at GP!
I'm never lacking a play on turn 2, so playing a 3/3 on turn 3 that can't attack is pretty miserable. Having access to 8 creatures with haste keeps me out of a funk more easily when I'm stuck under Liliana Of The Veil. I haven't played a lot of games with the change yet to give you anything real concrete. Leatherback Baloth was constantly getting boarded out, sitting in my hand because my two-drops were either Strangleroot Geist being relevant as soon as it hit the board, or Scavenging Ooze/Avatar Of The Resolute going over the top. I see fewer and fewer copies of Anger Of The Gods in sideboards on modo lists (though, I only play paper magic.) I've only ever had one cast against me. That was the real value of Leatherback Baloth, survive 3 damage sweepers, imo.
Boggart Ram-Gang also gets to kill Kitchen Finks in one shot, fights through walls and Spellskite like a professional, and makes blocking with something like Siege Rhino or Tasigur, The Golden Fang less profitable. If he blocks a creature against Infect the creature dies when the pump spell wears off.
The haste is also good against Tron because they usually sweep you with Oblivion Stone or Ugin, The Spirit Dragon the turn before you can kill them. With this set-up I have 8 outs to push the final points through, flashing in Skylasher improves this further.
I can never really justify a non-forest land in this deck, no matter how much I want a single Tree Top Village. I've won on mulligans to 5 more than a few times with this deck, and if a mulligan'd one-lander wasn't a forest I would have likely gone to 4 cards and lost.
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Boggart Ram-Gang dies to top-decked Lightning Bolt because if they have Lightning Bolt in hand and didn't cast it by turn 3 they're doing something wrong or we are. Fringe exceptions.
If Anger Of The Gods starts showing up more I'll switch back, but for now I'm digging the log squad.
I think Boggart Ram-Gang is better in our difficult match-ups and Leatherback Baloth is good in match-ups that we would be fine without. Burn is possibly the exception?
Bear in mind I also play 4 copies of Scavenging Ooze, who acts as my big butt in times of need. He's almost like casting Spellskite in that all removal is immediately redirected to him. I just keep on keeping on with whatever I'm up to.
I know people in general have been "down" on Collected Company in this deck, but I'm still really intrigued by the card (and since I have a playset left over from drafting and whatnot) I am motivated to see if I can make it work.
But it's odd having CoCo in a deck with haste creatures, because CoCo seems best played before combat if you expect to hit a Strangleroot Geist or some such thing (which I've done in the past, to great results). It also works great pre-combat to boost E1 and help Aspect of Hydra. But if I'm dodging removal, then saving the 4 mana for my opponent's end-step seems the better way to go -- especially because it lets me hold up Vines or Dismember or Scooze activation or other instants on their turn if need be.
So that said, I love everything I'm reading about Boggart Ram-Gang, but because I'm experimenting with CoCo I wonder if Baloth isn't a better choice for me at this point.
I'll certainly post with my results, thanks!
--clint
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So I keep forgetting that I have MTGO. Are there any major differences between the paper version of this deck from the digital version of it? I'm probably going to start playing stompy on MTGO elusively for awhile.
I think Ram Gang is a very possible future replacement of Baloth in Stompy decks. All the idea needs is some serious testing to see whether or not it is actually better than Baloth.
There was a post recently made in the Zoo Primer to the fact about the current consensus that creatures should be cast on turns one and two as, by turn four, creatures tend not to make it across the board and most attacking occurs in the first three turns. Boggart Ram-Gang plays towards this mentality as it sort of "cheats" that philosophy due to having Haste.
“Modern has provided us a non-rotating format that is far more accessible than Legacy or Vintage, but still retains many of the qualities that people enjoy in those formats—such as a more stable metagame, the ability to play and tweak the same deck week after week, and simply a much more powerful card pool than Standard.”
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
Just got done with an 18-person Modern tournament at my FLGS.
Overall record was 4-1, and I finished in 3rd place. This was my first time playing the deck, and I definitely caught at least two times where I made clear mistakes that might have turned my lost match into a win. Regardless, the deck performed wonderfully, and I couldn't be happier with its overall performance.
The sideboard was a bit of a wreck, since I picked up the Oxidizes, Unravels, Skylashers and Witchstalkers out of the store's stock shortly before the tournament started. I think I may have only boarded Reclamation Sage in a single time, and it was a waste. That card needs to go. The two things that gave me the most trouble this evening were Hornet Queen and Liliana of the Veil + Damnation. Man, that was a rough matchup.
Anyways, for the play-by-play.
Match 1: Tron
I played against this guy in a practice game before the tournament, and he was still learning the deck (as I was learning mine). In the practice game he was able to play an artifact that wiped most of my board (something to do with a 5-mana activation cost and fate counters?) but I was able to rebuild my board and come back for the win.
In game 1 of the real matchup, he got out a turn 3 Karn, which was bruuuutal. However, he kept plussing him rather than killing my creatures, which let me hit him in the face enough the turn before he could have ultimate'd Karn. He also mis-played and should have played Pyroclasm but mistakenly played his final Urza land before cracking his Expedition map and tutoring up a Grove of the Burnwillows, so he couldn't play Pyroclasm. That let me swing in for exactsies (13) before Karn was able to go off.
In game 2, he had to mull to 5, and he was perpetually 1 mana short. On turn three he was a mana short of cracking his Map, and on turn four he was a mana short of playing Wurmcoil. On turn two or three he played that Relic or something that board wipes me again, so I used Unravel the Aether on it, and that let me keep enough of a board presence to swing in for the win. Even if he'd gotten Wurmcoil out on turn 4, I still might have been able to Vines to pump in enough damage, but I'm not sure.
Results: 2-0 vs. Tron
Match 2: Bloom Titan
I was deathly afraid of this deck, and it was one of my tougher matchups of the day. Vines of Vastwood was the all-star in this deck, since it let me hexproof and use my 2/x's (like Experiment One or Dryad Militant) to trade with his 6/6 Primeval Titans. Being able to trade for his Titans was critical in order to keep him off of as many land-drop triggers as I could, and I was able to wear him down and swing in for the kill. Game 2 I boarded in all of my artifact hate, and he boarded in like a fiend as well. Hornet Queen in particular was just insanely nasty against me and there was nothing I could do once he got Hornet Queen online. What the heck am I supposed to do against a Hornet Queen? I have no idea what cards I could possibly board in that would help against her -- maybe Torpor Orb? Thragtusk was brutal to see as well. However, I was able to just be more consistent I guess, and he missed all of his boarded cards in game 3. I barely won game 3 just as it was going to turns -- he cast Summoner's Pact once in the third game to tutor up a Titan, and I'm just glad he didn't get a Hornet Queen. If he had gotten a Queen and stabilized the board, I'm not sure that I could have come back from that. But thankfully he went for the Titan, I was able to trade it off with another small creature + Vines, and got the win. There was a HUGE crowd around the table at the very end (since we were the last match, playing near the front of the store), so there was a ton of pressure, and it was a really exhilarating win.
Results: 2-1 against Bloom Titan
Match 3: Blue / Black Control
This was my only match loss of the night. I was still on tilt from finishing up the last match so closely, and I really think that contributed to my misplays in this game. In game 1 he landed an Ashiok and was able to keep my board presence low enough with Damnation and some other removal to keep me on my back foot. I misplayed once where I should have cast Collected Company during my turn (the turn after he played Ashiok), but I stupidly waited until his turn to cast it -- that meant he now had enough mana to counter it, and I felt super dumb for doing that -- I think I might have been able to win the game otherwise. My hands were still shaking from the Bloom Titan matchup and I felt so dumb for making that play. Anyways I never recovered from that mistake and he ground me out of the game.
Game 2, he got Liliana of the Veil down, and that was the first time I'd ever played against that card -- holy cats she is BRUTAL. He had a Vedalken Shackles that I saw the first game, so I sided in artifact hate against it, but never saw any more artifacts or enchantments from him. I kept drawing pump spells and artifact hate, and was low on creatures, and Liliana didn't let me keep any creatures on the field long enough, and if I tried to build up a stockpile in my hand to dump onto the field all at once, Liliana just destroyed my hand. It was bad news bears all around, and I'm sure I didn't play it as well as I should have. I brought in Witchstalker, but his removal didn't care about targeting. Liliana just makes you sac a creature, and Damnation kills everything. What protection do I have against that, plus infinite counterspells? In hindsight maybe this is where I should have brought in a second Treetop Village or something like that, but that's the only thing that I can think of that would do well against that kind of control. I did side in my 4x Skylasher against him, and that card performed beautifully against him, and while it was enough to drop him down to 1 life, we went probably 10 turns where I wasn't able to push through for the final 1 damage once he had stabilized. Very demoralizing loss.
Results: 0-2 against UB Control
Match 4: Scapeshift
This game was a lot of fun, because the deck was firing on all cylinders, and the opponent didn't have much to wreck my plans. Game 1 I aggro'd him out before he had a chance to do much.
Game 2 he mulled down to 5 on the play, so I was already on a huge advantage. He brought in both Obstinate Baloth and Thragtusk against me. I brought in 2x Witchstalker and 4x Skylasher and he about had a fit when he saw Witchstalker hit the table. He traded his Baloth for a Vines of Vastwood of mine, and he was able to get his Thragtusk to trade for my first Scooze, and then got his beast to trade for my Witchstalker eventually, but while he had the 3/3 beast blocking my Witchstalker, I played CoCo -- he couldn't counter without giving my Witchstalker +1/+1 (he didn't have the counter anyways), and it resolved. I dropped a Geist and a Dungrove Elder with it, and he just stared at the Elder. He had worked so hard to finally kill my 3/3 hexproof Witchstalker and I just dropped a 4/4 hexproof Dungrove Elder. He was demoralized, and I had just kept him on his back foot the whole game, and no amount of Sakura-Tribe Elders were able to halt the onslaught of damage. The next turn he was able to Scapeshift for 18, but I was at 22 life thanks to Scooze, and he scooped. Overall a surprisingly easy matchup, but that's what happens when your opponent mulls to 5 and misses the combo -- it's the sort of thing where if Scapeshift happens to get their cards, there's not much I can do -- the only interaction I have is to just try to push through more damage. The goal of mono-green stompy is to just be consistent, and not suffer from the same variability that affects other decks, and I absolutely love that about it.
Results: 2-0 vs. Scapeshift
Match 5: CoCo Elves
Game 1 he was making an awesome board presence -- he tutored for the Elvish Champion or whatever his name is (that gives +1/+1 to all of his elves and gives them forestwalk, which is really bad against me). We traded hits for a couple of turns, then he had the elf that untaps all other elves when he attacks, so when I swung in on my next turn, he set up blocks. I dropped an unexpected Dismember onto his Elvish Champion to shrink his dudes, which made stuff trade unexpectedly for him, and it was a really nice setback in tempo. I was able to rally with Baloth and put up enough of a board presence that he couldn't swing in. My 1-of Treetop Village actually won me the game here by adding another 3/3 trampler, and I was able to swing in with 2 Geists, a Rancor'd Baloth and my 3/3 Ape to give exactsies over his three blockers.
I sided in 2x Witchstalker (since he was running black) as well as 1x Dismember, taking out 3x Baloths for it.
Second game he mulled to 6 and got stuck on 2 lands so that the couldn't do anything -- we were both stuck on 2 lands but even though I had a CoCo and maybe another 3 drop in my hand, my deck was still able to use up most of its mana every turn. We traded damage for a couple of turns, but my Rancor put me too far ahead and he tried to stay back to block. Dismember had something else to say about that, and I was able to swing in and put him too far behind so that by the time he got his 3rd land (a fetchland) he was on 3 life and couldn't afford to fetch the black mana that he needed. He had two Abrupt Decays in hand and would have done some nasty stuff to me if he had had more mana, but he just got screwed off of his mulligan and it was too much.
I'll admit that I did a bit of a Jedi Mind Trick on the second game in sortof disgustedly flopping my hand (a one-lander) face down onto the table and telegraphing that I was going to mull. I decided to keep it instead (1 forest, but E1, Rancor, Vines, and Dismember were enough 1-drops that I was comfortable keeping until I could play my Geist -- also in hand). My second draw step was my second land, and even though I never saw another land, the deck operated just fine without it.
Results: 2-0 vs. CoCo Elves
Wrapup: 4-1 record for the evening
Overall went 4-1 for the evening on my very first Modern tournament, which I'm pretty pleased with! Stompy really stole a lot of unexpected wins out from other people, and the consistency with which this deck plays is just insane.
I'm still not entirely sure what I'm supposed to do about Hornet Queen in Bloom Titan -- should I be considering something else other than Torpor Orb? Predator Ooze is the only other thing that comes to mind, but even so I'm just not sure. Maybe Troll Ascetic for the regeneration?
While Collected Company wasn't great in the fast matchups, I will say that in some of the longer matchups that CoCo is a HOUSE for bringing in finishers and reloading the board. Looking through the top 6 cards and putting two creatures onto the battlefield is just sick, and I really love the card's efficiency and value. In hindsight, I'm not sure that this card is good against control matchups or not -- a simple Negate really shuts me down with that plan, and I'm thinking that I might keep all of my creatures in and just side out my playset of CoCo for a playset of Skylasher or Witchstalker or something -- hard to say at this point, and I still want to know how to play against blue/black control better. I really think that Boggart Ram Gang will be an excellent help in the blue/black control matchup (especially against Liliana), and I'm really liking what I see with that thing. I found myself regularly siding out Leatherback Baloth more and more as the evening went on, and missing it less and less. I don't mind having 1 or 2 in my deck, but I don't like having it as a 4-of. I'd rather have a plethora of small creatures and dump them all onto the field more quickly.
Boggart Ram-Gang works differently in the deck than Dungrove Elder and Baloth. Those two are for playing the long game, while Ram-Gang is for trying to close games early. It's just a question of which you're pushing for. There are a lot of reasons to not run both. The only way to know which you like is to try them both out.
I do like Elder the least of the three because it doesn't have the synergy with Aspect of Hydra that the others do. That's just me though, your mileage may vary!
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“Modern has provided us a non-rotating format that is far more accessible than Legacy or Vintage, but still retains many of the qualities that people enjoy in those formats—such as a more stable metagame, the ability to play and tweak the same deck week after week, and simply a much more powerful card pool than Standard.”
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
In a deck with a lot of sorcery-speed removal (like the Liliana / UB control matchup I faced yesterday), I can say that I would have LOVED to have top-decked a Boggart Ram-Gang when my opponent was sitting at 1 life with an active Lily on board. There was nothing I could do to push through that final bit of removal, and a Ram Gang would have done a lot to give me a shot at that.
But Dungrove Elder is excellent, and I think I want at least one more of those for the deck as well. I don't think I would want to run it as a 4-of necessarily, but I really like it as a 1-of or 2-of right now.
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20 Forest
Creatures
4 Experiment One
4 Dryad Militant
4 Leatherback Baloth
3 Kalonian Tusker
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Strangleroot Geist
1 Surrak, the Hunt Caller
4 Rancor
Spells
4 Aspect of Hydra
4 Vines of Vastwood
2 Dismember
4 Skylasher
2 Dismember
3 Feed the Clan
2 Gut shot
3 Unravel the Aether
1 Relic of Progenitus
Not sure what the meta is going to look like so I'll update the sideboard when I know more. So glad this thread has been here and the discussion has been current. It's been a huge help and I've had a lot of fun putting this deck together.
It's certianly one of my biggest reasons for playing this deck. So many times it's an instant win.
Thoughts?
(Decklist is in sig file)
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
How to Use Spoiler Tags
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THE Guide to Aggro, Part 3
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Introduction to Tempo
Controlling Tempo
Elements of Tempo
Roadblocks to Tempo
How Not To Build A Deck - Tempo
Learn How To Sideboard, Dammit!
Mulligan's Island
The Art of the Mulligan
The Art of the Mulligan: Eight Case Studies
Fundamentals: The Mulligan
Some Mulligan Exercises
A Mulligan Is Worth Three Cards
The Mulligan Debate
Common Sense: The Art of the Mulligan
Who's The Beatdown?
3 Caves of Koilos
3 Eldrazi Temple
2 Fetid Heath
3 Godless Shrine
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Plains
3 Shambling Vent
2 Tectonic Edge
Artifacts (4):
4 Æther Vial
4 Path to Exile
Creatures (29):
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
4 Serra Avenger
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Wasteland Strangler
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Dismember
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Rest in Peace
3 Stony Silence
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Flooded Strand
6 Island
3 Polluted Delta
3 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
Creatures (16):
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stormchaser Mage
2 Gut Shot
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mutagenic Growth
3 Spell Pierce
3 Twisted Image
3 Vapor Snag
Sorceries (8):
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Blood Moon
2 Dispel
1 Forked Bolt
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Repeal
2 Roast
1 Spell Snare
2 Spellskite
1 Vapor Snag
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Copperline Gorge
5 Mountain
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
4 Wooded Foothills
Creatures (14):
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Atarka's Command
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
3 Searing Blaze
Sorceries (8):
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
2 Deflecting Palm
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Path to Exile
2 Rending Volley
3 Skullcrack
19 Forest
3 Treetop Village
Creatures (24):
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Dryad Militant
2 Dungrove Elder
4 Experiment One
4 Leatherback Baloth
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Rancor
Instants (10):
3 Aspect of Hydra
4 Vines of Vastwood
3 Dismember
2 Choke
2 Gut Shot
2 Deglamer
2 Feed the Clan
2 Oxidize
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Skylasher
1 Unravel the Æther
Looks like I'll be driving down to GP OKC if everything works out and I'll be playing Stompy. Presently set with this 75, always subject to change. The main 60 is super tight, right now.
4 Boggart Ram-Gang
4 Dryad Militant
4 Experiment One
4 Scavenging Ooze
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Dismember
4 Rancor
4 Vines Of Vastwood
21 Forest
3 Display Of Dominance
4 Hunt The Hunter
4 Oxidize
4 Skylasher
I really started to hate the 1-of/2-of sideboard with this deck. I focused the board on the really difficult winnable match-ups where I want a slight edge (mostly the other creature-centric matches.) I haven't tested the board as it is now, yet. Strictly theoretical.
Only deck I think I might want some help against is burn with Feed The Clan. They're bringing in all the Skullcrack they can anticipating life gain, anyway. I'd rather them just board into a bunch of 2 mana spells and slow themselves down enough to kill turn 4. I'd rather face their creatures than their 1 mana spells.
Only match I feel really dead against is Soul Sisters/Martyr decks. Might miss my Relic Of Progenitus if I run into Living End.
I hated boarding in cards that didn't mesh with my own plan. Now all my sideboard either removes a blocker, protects a guy, or is a guy, which is where I want to be.
I'm also curious as to why you cut the Baloth's, but maybe the lack of haste just makes them too sensitive to removal? It's odd, because previously I'd sort of looked at the value of the Baloth as kindof the reason to make the deck in the first place.
Regardless, I'm very very interested in hearing how your deck does at GP!
I'm never lacking a play on turn 2, so playing a 3/3 on turn 3 that can't attack is pretty miserable. Having access to 8 creatures with haste keeps me out of a funk more easily when I'm stuck under Liliana Of The Veil. I haven't played a lot of games with the change yet to give you anything real concrete. Leatherback Baloth was constantly getting boarded out, sitting in my hand because my two-drops were either Strangleroot Geist being relevant as soon as it hit the board, or Scavenging Ooze/Avatar Of The Resolute going over the top. I see fewer and fewer copies of Anger Of The Gods in sideboards on modo lists (though, I only play paper magic.) I've only ever had one cast against me. That was the real value of Leatherback Baloth, survive 3 damage sweepers, imo.
Boggart Ram-Gang also gets to kill Kitchen Finks in one shot, fights through walls and Spellskite like a professional, and makes blocking with something like Siege Rhino or Tasigur, The Golden Fang less profitable. If he blocks a creature against Infect the creature dies when the pump spell wears off.
Also;
Turn 1 -> Experiment One
Turn 2 -> Strangleroot Geist
Turn 3 -> Boggart Ram-Gang
Turn 4 -> Exactly 20 damage from 3 cards.
The haste is also good against Tron because they usually sweep you with Oblivion Stone or Ugin, The Spirit Dragon the turn before you can kill them. With this set-up I have 8 outs to push the final points through, flashing in Skylasher improves this further.
I'm really excited to test Display Of Dominance. It's virtual Vines Of Vastwood 5-7 in that it counters Abrupt Decay, Terminate, Electrolyze, Kolaghan's Command, Spreading Seas, as well as being a hard answer to some of Jund's possible sideboard, Night Of Souls' Betrayal, Curse Of Death's Hold, Liliana Of The Veil, Spreading Seas, Bitterblossom, Sorin, Solemn Visitor, Sorin, Lord Of Innistrad, Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver, so on and so forth. Just answers a ton of frustrating things, but very narrowly.
I can never really justify a non-forest land in this deck, no matter how much I want a single Tree Top Village. I've won on mulligans to 5 more than a few times with this deck, and if a mulligan'd one-lander wasn't a forest I would have likely gone to 4 cards and lost.
I'm going to try to pick up some copies of Boggart Ram-Gang to try that out -- that's super intriguing to me, thanks!
Boggart Ram-Gang dies to top-decked Lightning Bolt because if they have Lightning Bolt in hand and didn't cast it by turn 3 they're doing something wrong or we are. Fringe exceptions.
I don't want to play blockers and a blocked Boggart Ram-Gang renders Tasigur, The Golden Fang, Siege Rhino, Gurmag Angler etc pretty worthless post-combat. Even Wurmcoil Engine is far more manageable.
If Anger Of The Gods starts showing up more I'll switch back, but for now I'm digging the log squad.
I think Boggart Ram-Gang is better in our difficult match-ups and Leatherback Baloth is good in match-ups that we would be fine without. Burn is possibly the exception?
Bear in mind I also play 4 copies of Scavenging Ooze, who acts as my big butt in times of need. He's almost like casting Spellskite in that all removal is immediately redirected to him. I just keep on keeping on with whatever I'm up to.
I think it also comes down to play style.
But it's odd having CoCo in a deck with haste creatures, because CoCo seems best played before combat if you expect to hit a Strangleroot Geist or some such thing (which I've done in the past, to great results). It also works great pre-combat to boost E1 and help Aspect of Hydra. But if I'm dodging removal, then saving the 4 mana for my opponent's end-step seems the better way to go -- especially because it lets me hold up Vines or Dismember or Scooze activation or other instants on their turn if need be.
So that said, I love everything I'm reading about Boggart Ram-Gang, but because I'm experimenting with CoCo I wonder if Baloth isn't a better choice for me at this point.
I'll certainly post with my results, thanks!
--clint
WBTokensWB
It's definitely worth checking out.
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
How to Use Spoiler Tags
Starting Over: The Origins of the Mulligan Rule
Practical Approach to Slow Play
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 2: SWARM and TOOLBOX
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 3
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 4
These videos are by MTG Salvation Moderator Lantern!
Introduction to Tempo
Controlling Tempo
Elements of Tempo
Roadblocks to Tempo
How Not To Build A Deck - Tempo
Learn How To Sideboard, Dammit!
Mulligan's Island
The Art of the Mulligan
The Art of the Mulligan: Eight Case Studies
Fundamentals: The Mulligan
Some Mulligan Exercises
A Mulligan Is Worth Three Cards
The Mulligan Debate
Common Sense: The Art of the Mulligan
Who's The Beatdown?
3 Caves of Koilos
3 Eldrazi Temple
2 Fetid Heath
3 Godless Shrine
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Plains
3 Shambling Vent
2 Tectonic Edge
Artifacts (4):
4 Æther Vial
4 Path to Exile
Creatures (29):
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
4 Serra Avenger
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Wasteland Strangler
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Dismember
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Rest in Peace
3 Stony Silence
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Flooded Strand
6 Island
3 Polluted Delta
3 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
Creatures (16):
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stormchaser Mage
2 Gut Shot
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mutagenic Growth
3 Spell Pierce
3 Twisted Image
3 Vapor Snag
Sorceries (8):
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Blood Moon
2 Dispel
1 Forked Bolt
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Repeal
2 Roast
1 Spell Snare
2 Spellskite
1 Vapor Snag
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Copperline Gorge
5 Mountain
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
4 Wooded Foothills
Creatures (14):
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Atarka's Command
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
3 Searing Blaze
Sorceries (8):
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
2 Deflecting Palm
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Path to Exile
2 Rending Volley
3 Skullcrack
19 Forest
3 Treetop Village
Creatures (24):
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Dryad Militant
2 Dungrove Elder
4 Experiment One
4 Leatherback Baloth
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Rancor
Instants (10):
3 Aspect of Hydra
4 Vines of Vastwood
3 Dismember
2 Choke
2 Gut Shot
2 Deglamer
2 Feed the Clan
2 Oxidize
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Skylasher
1 Unravel the Æther
Overall record was 4-1, and I finished in 3rd place. This was my first time playing the deck, and I definitely caught at least two times where I made clear mistakes that might have turned my lost match into a win. Regardless, the deck performed wonderfully, and I couldn't be happier with its overall performance.
Here was the deck list that I used:
4 Dryad Militant
1 Dungrove Elder
4 Experiment One
4 Leatherback Baloth
4 Scavenging Ooze
4 Strangleroot Geist
2 Dismember
4 Vines of Vastwood
2 Prey Upon
2 Rancor
20 Forest
1 Treetop Village
2 Aspect of Hydra
1 Dismember
2 Oxidize
2 Reclamation Sage
4 Skylasher
2 Unravel the Aether
2 Witchstalker
The sideboard was a bit of a wreck, since I picked up the Oxidizes, Unravels, Skylashers and Witchstalkers out of the store's stock shortly before the tournament started. I think I may have only boarded Reclamation Sage in a single time, and it was a waste. That card needs to go. The two things that gave me the most trouble this evening were Hornet Queen and Liliana of the Veil + Damnation. Man, that was a rough matchup.
Anyways, for the play-by-play.
Match 1: Tron
I played against this guy in a practice game before the tournament, and he was still learning the deck (as I was learning mine). In the practice game he was able to play an artifact that wiped most of my board (something to do with a 5-mana activation cost and fate counters?) but I was able to rebuild my board and come back for the win.
In game 1 of the real matchup, he got out a turn 3 Karn, which was bruuuutal. However, he kept plussing him rather than killing my creatures, which let me hit him in the face enough the turn before he could have ultimate'd Karn. He also mis-played and should have played Pyroclasm but mistakenly played his final Urza land before cracking his Expedition map and tutoring up a Grove of the Burnwillows, so he couldn't play Pyroclasm. That let me swing in for exactsies (13) before Karn was able to go off.
In game 2, he had to mull to 5, and he was perpetually 1 mana short. On turn three he was a mana short of cracking his Map, and on turn four he was a mana short of playing Wurmcoil. On turn two or three he played that Relic or something that board wipes me again, so I used Unravel the Aether on it, and that let me keep enough of a board presence to swing in for the win. Even if he'd gotten Wurmcoil out on turn 4, I still might have been able to Vines to pump in enough damage, but I'm not sure.
Results: 2-0 vs. Tron
Match 2: Bloom Titan
I was deathly afraid of this deck, and it was one of my tougher matchups of the day. Vines of Vastwood was the all-star in this deck, since it let me hexproof and use my 2/x's (like Experiment One or Dryad Militant) to trade with his 6/6 Primeval Titans. Being able to trade for his Titans was critical in order to keep him off of as many land-drop triggers as I could, and I was able to wear him down and swing in for the kill. Game 2 I boarded in all of my artifact hate, and he boarded in like a fiend as well. Hornet Queen in particular was just insanely nasty against me and there was nothing I could do once he got Hornet Queen online. What the heck am I supposed to do against a Hornet Queen? I have no idea what cards I could possibly board in that would help against her -- maybe Torpor Orb? Thragtusk was brutal to see as well. However, I was able to just be more consistent I guess, and he missed all of his boarded cards in game 3. I barely won game 3 just as it was going to turns -- he cast Summoner's Pact once in the third game to tutor up a Titan, and I'm just glad he didn't get a Hornet Queen. If he had gotten a Queen and stabilized the board, I'm not sure that I could have come back from that. But thankfully he went for the Titan, I was able to trade it off with another small creature + Vines, and got the win. There was a HUGE crowd around the table at the very end (since we were the last match, playing near the front of the store), so there was a ton of pressure, and it was a really exhilarating win.
Results: 2-1 against Bloom Titan
Match 3: Blue / Black Control
This was my only match loss of the night. I was still on tilt from finishing up the last match so closely, and I really think that contributed to my misplays in this game. In game 1 he landed an Ashiok and was able to keep my board presence low enough with Damnation and some other removal to keep me on my back foot. I misplayed once where I should have cast Collected Company during my turn (the turn after he played Ashiok), but I stupidly waited until his turn to cast it -- that meant he now had enough mana to counter it, and I felt super dumb for doing that -- I think I might have been able to win the game otherwise. My hands were still shaking from the Bloom Titan matchup and I felt so dumb for making that play. Anyways I never recovered from that mistake and he ground me out of the game.
Game 2, he got Liliana of the Veil down, and that was the first time I'd ever played against that card -- holy cats she is BRUTAL. He had a Vedalken Shackles that I saw the first game, so I sided in artifact hate against it, but never saw any more artifacts or enchantments from him. I kept drawing pump spells and artifact hate, and was low on creatures, and Liliana didn't let me keep any creatures on the field long enough, and if I tried to build up a stockpile in my hand to dump onto the field all at once, Liliana just destroyed my hand. It was bad news bears all around, and I'm sure I didn't play it as well as I should have. I brought in Witchstalker, but his removal didn't care about targeting. Liliana just makes you sac a creature, and Damnation kills everything. What protection do I have against that, plus infinite counterspells? In hindsight maybe this is where I should have brought in a second Treetop Village or something like that, but that's the only thing that I can think of that would do well against that kind of control. I did side in my 4x Skylasher against him, and that card performed beautifully against him, and while it was enough to drop him down to 1 life, we went probably 10 turns where I wasn't able to push through for the final 1 damage once he had stabilized. Very demoralizing loss.
Results: 0-2 against UB Control
Match 4: Scapeshift
This game was a lot of fun, because the deck was firing on all cylinders, and the opponent didn't have much to wreck my plans. Game 1 I aggro'd him out before he had a chance to do much.
Game 2 he mulled down to 5 on the play, so I was already on a huge advantage. He brought in both Obstinate Baloth and Thragtusk against me. I brought in 2x Witchstalker and 4x Skylasher and he about had a fit when he saw Witchstalker hit the table. He traded his Baloth for a Vines of Vastwood of mine, and he was able to get his Thragtusk to trade for my first Scooze, and then got his beast to trade for my Witchstalker eventually, but while he had the 3/3 beast blocking my Witchstalker, I played CoCo -- he couldn't counter without giving my Witchstalker +1/+1 (he didn't have the counter anyways), and it resolved. I dropped a Geist and a Dungrove Elder with it, and he just stared at the Elder. He had worked so hard to finally kill my 3/3 hexproof Witchstalker and I just dropped a 4/4 hexproof Dungrove Elder. He was demoralized, and I had just kept him on his back foot the whole game, and no amount of Sakura-Tribe Elders were able to halt the onslaught of damage. The next turn he was able to Scapeshift for 18, but I was at 22 life thanks to Scooze, and he scooped. Overall a surprisingly easy matchup, but that's what happens when your opponent mulls to 5 and misses the combo -- it's the sort of thing where if Scapeshift happens to get their cards, there's not much I can do -- the only interaction I have is to just try to push through more damage. The goal of mono-green stompy is to just be consistent, and not suffer from the same variability that affects other decks, and I absolutely love that about it.
Results: 2-0 vs. Scapeshift
Match 5: CoCo Elves
Game 1 he was making an awesome board presence -- he tutored for the Elvish Champion or whatever his name is (that gives +1/+1 to all of his elves and gives them forestwalk, which is really bad against me). We traded hits for a couple of turns, then he had the elf that untaps all other elves when he attacks, so when I swung in on my next turn, he set up blocks. I dropped an unexpected Dismember onto his Elvish Champion to shrink his dudes, which made stuff trade unexpectedly for him, and it was a really nice setback in tempo. I was able to rally with Baloth and put up enough of a board presence that he couldn't swing in. My 1-of Treetop Village actually won me the game here by adding another 3/3 trampler, and I was able to swing in with 2 Geists, a Rancor'd Baloth and my 3/3 Ape to give exactsies over his three blockers.
I sided in 2x Witchstalker (since he was running black) as well as 1x Dismember, taking out 3x Baloths for it.
Second game he mulled to 6 and got stuck on 2 lands so that the couldn't do anything -- we were both stuck on 2 lands but even though I had a CoCo and maybe another 3 drop in my hand, my deck was still able to use up most of its mana every turn. We traded damage for a couple of turns, but my Rancor put me too far ahead and he tried to stay back to block. Dismember had something else to say about that, and I was able to swing in and put him too far behind so that by the time he got his 3rd land (a fetchland) he was on 3 life and couldn't afford to fetch the black mana that he needed. He had two Abrupt Decays in hand and would have done some nasty stuff to me if he had had more mana, but he just got screwed off of his mulligan and it was too much.
I'll admit that I did a bit of a Jedi Mind Trick on the second game in sortof disgustedly flopping my hand (a one-lander) face down onto the table and telegraphing that I was going to mull. I decided to keep it instead (1 forest, but E1, Rancor, Vines, and Dismember were enough 1-drops that I was comfortable keeping until I could play my Geist -- also in hand). My second draw step was my second land, and even though I never saw another land, the deck operated just fine without it.
Results: 2-0 vs. CoCo Elves
Wrapup: 4-1 record for the evening
Overall went 4-1 for the evening on my very first Modern tournament, which I'm pretty pleased with! Stompy really stole a lot of unexpected wins out from other people, and the consistency with which this deck plays is just insane.
I'm still not entirely sure what I'm supposed to do about Hornet Queen in Bloom Titan -- should I be considering something else other than Torpor Orb? Predator Ooze is the only other thing that comes to mind, but even so I'm just not sure. Maybe Troll Ascetic for the regeneration?
While Collected Company wasn't great in the fast matchups, I will say that in some of the longer matchups that CoCo is a HOUSE for bringing in finishers and reloading the board. Looking through the top 6 cards and putting two creatures onto the battlefield is just sick, and I really love the card's efficiency and value. In hindsight, I'm not sure that this card is good against control matchups or not -- a simple Negate really shuts me down with that plan, and I'm thinking that I might keep all of my creatures in and just side out my playset of CoCo for a playset of Skylasher or Witchstalker or something -- hard to say at this point, and I still want to know how to play against blue/black control better. I really think that Boggart Ram Gang will be an excellent help in the blue/black control matchup (especially against Liliana), and I'm really liking what I see with that thing. I found myself regularly siding out Leatherback Baloth more and more as the evening went on, and missing it less and less. I don't mind having 1 or 2 in my deck, but I don't like having it as a 4-of. I'd rather have a plethora of small creatures and dump them all onto the field more quickly.
I do like Elder the least of the three because it doesn't have the synergy with Aspect of Hydra that the others do. That's just me though, your mileage may vary!
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
How to Use Spoiler Tags
Starting Over: The Origins of the Mulligan Rule
Practical Approach to Slow Play
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 2: SWARM and TOOLBOX
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 3
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 4
These videos are by MTG Salvation Moderator Lantern!
Introduction to Tempo
Controlling Tempo
Elements of Tempo
Roadblocks to Tempo
How Not To Build A Deck - Tempo
Learn How To Sideboard, Dammit!
Mulligan's Island
The Art of the Mulligan
The Art of the Mulligan: Eight Case Studies
Fundamentals: The Mulligan
Some Mulligan Exercises
A Mulligan Is Worth Three Cards
The Mulligan Debate
Common Sense: The Art of the Mulligan
Who's The Beatdown?
3 Caves of Koilos
3 Eldrazi Temple
2 Fetid Heath
3 Godless Shrine
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Plains
3 Shambling Vent
2 Tectonic Edge
Artifacts (4):
4 Æther Vial
4 Path to Exile
Creatures (29):
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
4 Serra Avenger
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Wasteland Strangler
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Dismember
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Rest in Peace
3 Stony Silence
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Flooded Strand
6 Island
3 Polluted Delta
3 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
Creatures (16):
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stormchaser Mage
2 Gut Shot
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mutagenic Growth
3 Spell Pierce
3 Twisted Image
3 Vapor Snag
Sorceries (8):
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Blood Moon
2 Dispel
1 Forked Bolt
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Repeal
2 Roast
1 Spell Snare
2 Spellskite
1 Vapor Snag
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Copperline Gorge
5 Mountain
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
4 Wooded Foothills
Creatures (14):
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Atarka's Command
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
3 Searing Blaze
Sorceries (8):
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
2 Deflecting Palm
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Path to Exile
2 Rending Volley
3 Skullcrack
19 Forest
3 Treetop Village
Creatures (24):
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Dryad Militant
2 Dungrove Elder
4 Experiment One
4 Leatherback Baloth
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Rancor
Instants (10):
3 Aspect of Hydra
4 Vines of Vastwood
3 Dismember
2 Choke
2 Gut Shot
2 Deglamer
2 Feed the Clan
2 Oxidize
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Skylasher
1 Unravel the Æther
In a deck with a lot of sorcery-speed removal (like the Liliana / UB control matchup I faced yesterday), I can say that I would have LOVED to have top-decked a Boggart Ram-Gang when my opponent was sitting at 1 life with an active Lily on board. There was nothing I could do to push through that final bit of removal, and a Ram Gang would have done a lot to give me a shot at that.
But Dungrove Elder is excellent, and I think I want at least one more of those for the deck as well. I don't think I would want to run it as a 4-of necessarily, but I really like it as a 1-of or 2-of right now.