I've been using prey upon but I don't feel like it is strong enough removal. I don't know how I feel about paying 12 life throughout a game though. Dismember is definitely useless in a close game, but definitely helps you stop the games from getting too close
4-1 22 person modern event first time playing deck. Second Place overall. 4-0 vs Twin, GW Hatebears, Skred R/W, Esper Control. Lost to Burn in finals.
Congrats!
Just caught up on the last few days in the thread. Obviously everyone is excited about what stompy is going to look like after DTK releases, but I agree with Ender84 that we shouldn't get carried away. In my opinion, stuff like splashing, converting to midrange, etc. doesn't make any sense if you're trying to make the most competitive version of mono-g stompy. If you're playing it right (or, at least the way that I do :P), your goal every game is to apply a ton of pressure starting turn 1, and then every single turn after that if you can. If the opponent is always on their back foot, unable to progress their board state because they have to chump or tap out for removal, we're winning. We can do that really well because our mana base is rock solid and our creatures are all above average in stats. We have some built in resilience with E1's regen, strangleroot geist's undying, rancor's recursion. We have awesome pump spells in vines and aspect (and rancor). I'm saying all this because I don't think the deck needs to change very much, we're basically getting avatar of the resolute and that's about it (maybe collected company finds its way in, I don't know). I'm not saying young wolf isn't worth trying, but I'm pretty sure I'm not going to run it over any of my current 1-drops, even considering the avatar synergy. Yeah, the resilience could be good. But it doesn't accomplish the goal of applying as much pressure as possible from T1. It doesn't evolve E1 when it's cast and it only swings for 1 until it's dead.
In short, I don't think that changing/diluting the current deck to try and get bigger avatar triggers or whatever is the way to go. Swap out some cards from the current list to make room for avatar, maybe find room for an additional aspect since you've just upped your devotion, and go from there. Just my opinion, throwing it out there, and of course there's never a problem trying new stuff out. I'm just a bit of a spike with this deck, and I don't think some of the things I've seen brought up will make the deck competitive.
I am interested in how the 1-2 drop decklist will perform, though. I think it's an interesting idea, maybe is good, but I can see it running out of steam a lot of games with no card draw. Maybe collected company, rancor, and a full set of aspect of hydra will make it work, though.
I'd say it's a meta call/personal preference. I use Dismember because it's instant speed, with Hunt the Hunter in the sideboard if I feel like I need more removal. I could also see maindecking Hunt the Hunter since at worst it is a pump spell. The big knocks on Prey Upon are you need a creature, and it's sorcery speed. But you are right in other aggro match ups it's not as good because the life matters. I'd say the make or break point is probably how much twin you see. That's the main deck where having Dismember over Prey Upon counts the most in my experience.
I've always run dismember. You'll rarely lose 12 life because of it, considering you usually don't even go through half your deck in a game. The life loss is almost always a wash to me anyway, since it's used for stuff like removing a threat my creatures can't handle effectively (i.e. ensouled darksteel citadel, seige rhino,...), busting up the twin combo and preventing a game loss, or clearing a blocker to get damage through, which is usually at least 3 or 4 (considering they'll usually block one of my bigger guys). It's always playable (you don't need a creature to use it) and it's instant speed.
@Ender84: Hunt the Hunter needs two legal targets, not just your creature.
After having gone back to the basics I've found that I've been able to pull myself out of almost unwinnable situations and boardstates. Won a game online today defeating Elesh Norn AND a Wurmcoil... My old lists would never have been able to pull that off. I feel like this simple list holds far more options than the traditional refined and meta-game tweaked list, simply because of how awesome Aspect is when every single non-land permanent is worth its Casting Cost in devotion...
PS. Looking forward to DTK release like it was Christmas Eve
The "4-of" list I posted about a week ago - I've been trying to fiddle with the non-basics, and I'm fairly certain that you can now support 2 Treetop and X other non-basics like Horizon, as long as they don't enter tapped.
Hey guys! Just got 4th at my FNM out of 18 with this deck. It was sort of an awkward night for match-ups though. Not sure if it's really worth posting the results, as they will almost never apply to anyone outside of my meta. However, I tried some different cards the usual list, so maybe someone will benefit from the ideas. I also have a terrible memory so I'm not going to go into great detail.
My sideboard was quickly thrown together before heading out, but the gist of it was
1 Experiment One
2 Prey Upon
4 Giant Growth
and Some hexproof green creatures
So here's how the games went: Round 1: New player? (2-0) This was hardly a game. I won't go into detail but definitely a story for the future.
Round 2: Green-Blue Morph/Ramp (2-1) This was a very rogue build. A lot of cards from the Kiora deck (from Elspeth vs Kiora) were being used as well as some hydras. This is when I felt good in the decision to include Spire Tracer. I basically had it swinging on turn 4 with 3 rancors in the first game for lethal. Game 2 I couldn't close in the first few turns so he was able to have more creatures and bigger creatures at that point. I was top-decking and couldn't find any pump answers so I just sat and chump blocked what I could. Game 3 I mulliganed to 5, wanting to know if spire tracer was just a one off. It wasn't. He even got out flying, but I was able to use combat tricks to kill it.
Round 3: 4c Slivers (2-1) Once again, Spire Tracer turned to out save me as he easily got out first strike into a lord, into double strike. I just kept up blockers and finished him with an unblocked Aspect of Hydra pumped creature. Game 2, he got out Galerider Sliver and swooped in for a whopping 26 or some odd flying damage pretty early. Game 3, he mulliganed so I kept a hand with Spire Tracer hoping he was searching for Galerider without success. He tapped out most of his creatures with Manaweft Sliver's ability to bring out Sliver Hivelord. So, with only 2 creatures up for blocking and not much health I swung in with the team for lethal.
Round 4: Green Devotion, splash blue (0-2) This was a fairly similar match-up as Round 2, but he had Kiora's Follower combined with Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx to ramp into huge stuff, along with Prophet of Kruphix to maintain his defence until he had more creatures than I did. My biggest mistake was not keeping fast enough hands. The second time I mulliganed to a fairly speedy hand, got him to 4, but after that I couldn't get around his creatures.
I've never done one of these recaps so sorry if I didn't do correct formatting or something. I also realize these were odd match-ups that most people won't ever have, as well as the first round doesn't really count. It was also my first time using the deck at an event, so pretty good chance I made some mistakes and kept bad hands. I will say this though: If you have an aggro-heavy meta then I strongly advise trying Spire Tracer in favour over Experiment One, or at least sideboard it. I found going into top-deck mode with only 3 or 4 creatures on the field is horrible when your opponent and is continuing to prepare his assault. It's easy to start ahead in tempo with this deck because of cards like tusker, and baloth, but if you don't use that tempo correctly or quickly enough then your opponent will easily catch up and outpace you. Also I'm using Llanowar Reborn in favour of Treetop partly because I just don't own any Treetops, but also in preparation for Avatar of the Resolute. I'm definitely going to continue to use and improve this deck.
I don't know about straight up replacing Experiment, but I will definitely consider adding Spire Tracer if I decide to cut the Baloths for a 1-2 CMC version of the deck. Glad you did well! I'm eager to hear you elaborate upon that first game in the future.
I don't own a playset of E1, so I just looked for an alternative. Turned out to be a decent one.
The first game essentially went like this: a 12 - 13 year old sits across from me and pulls out one of the old commander decks. I tell him it's Modern night and there's a lot of not modern cards in those decks. He takes out a ziplock bag of cards 100 - 120 cards (not sleeved). He went second and didn't lay a land. He got out 1 land eventually and then I beat him. He only got out 2 land in the second round and a 3/3 mountainwalk creature. Afterwards he offered to sell me a Nicol Bolas* planeswalker and Soulfire Grand Master. He seemed like a nice kid and I've seen him play before, he's not bad. I'm not really sure what happened.
ive been looking for additional pump spells to put in my version of stompy. ive kinda torn betweenprimal bellow ,might of masses ,strength in numbers, echoing courage ,? as a possible 2-4 in the deck. also how do you guys feel on burst of strength sb? last modern event i played out i kept getting blown out in my scapeshift match up by cryptic command tapping my duded down pre-combat.
With everyone obsessed with +1/+1 counters in this deck, and going to questionable places to increase them, maybe it's worth revisiting Hunger of the Howlpack? It's been tested and proven in the deck in the past.
That said, like the streamlined version that plays up Devotion. Looks fun!
ive been looking for additional pump spells to put in my version of stompy. ive kinda torn betweenprimal bellow ,might of masses ,strength in numbers, echoing courage ,? as a possible 2-4 in the deck. also how do you guys feel on burst of strength sb? last modern event i played out i kept getting blown out in my scapeshift match up by cryptic command tapping my duded down pre-combat.
I always liked Slaughterhorn for extra pump...it doubles as extra body or uncounterable Giant Growth on attack that doesn't trigger Eidolon of the Great Revel. That said, with all the pump this thing runs now, do you really need more pump?
“Modern has provided us a non-rotating format that is far more accessible than Legacy or Vintage, but still retains many of the qualities that people enjoy in those formats—such as a more stable metagame, the ability to play and tweak the same deck week after week, and simply a much more powerful card pool than Standard.”
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
I've been using prey upon but I don't feel like it is strong enough removal. I don't know how I feel about paying 12 life throughout a game though. Dismember is definitely useless in a close game, but definitely helps you stop the games from getting too close
Le Gambit @ Aether did this banner
[NYC Dark Knights]
join today
WBTokensWB
Just caught up on the last few days in the thread. Obviously everyone is excited about what stompy is going to look like after DTK releases, but I agree with Ender84 that we shouldn't get carried away. In my opinion, stuff like splashing, converting to midrange, etc. doesn't make any sense if you're trying to make the most competitive version of mono-g stompy. If you're playing it right (or, at least the way that I do :P), your goal every game is to apply a ton of pressure starting turn 1, and then every single turn after that if you can. If the opponent is always on their back foot, unable to progress their board state because they have to chump or tap out for removal, we're winning. We can do that really well because our mana base is rock solid and our creatures are all above average in stats. We have some built in resilience with E1's regen, strangleroot geist's undying, rancor's recursion. We have awesome pump spells in vines and aspect (and rancor). I'm saying all this because I don't think the deck needs to change very much, we're basically getting avatar of the resolute and that's about it (maybe collected company finds its way in, I don't know). I'm not saying young wolf isn't worth trying, but I'm pretty sure I'm not going to run it over any of my current 1-drops, even considering the avatar synergy. Yeah, the resilience could be good. But it doesn't accomplish the goal of applying as much pressure as possible from T1. It doesn't evolve E1 when it's cast and it only swings for 1 until it's dead.
In short, I don't think that changing/diluting the current deck to try and get bigger avatar triggers or whatever is the way to go. Swap out some cards from the current list to make room for avatar, maybe find room for an additional aspect since you've just upped your devotion, and go from there. Just my opinion, throwing it out there, and of course there's never a problem trying new stuff out. I'm just a bit of a spike with this deck, and I don't think some of the things I've seen brought up will make the deck competitive.
I am interested in how the 1-2 drop decklist will perform, though. I think it's an interesting idea, maybe is good, but I can see it running out of steam a lot of games with no card draw. Maybe collected company, rancor, and a full set of aspect of hydra will make it work, though.
1 Grim Lavamancer
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
Non-creature Spells: 28
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Skullcrack
4 Searing Blaze
4 Boros Charm
4 Searing Blaze
4 Lightning Helix
2 Mountain
3 Inspiring Vantage
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Arid Mesa
1 Grim Lavamancer
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
Non-creature Spells: 28
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Skullcrack
4 Searing Blaze
4 Boros Charm
4 Searing Blaze
4 Lightning Helix
2 Mountain
3 Inspiring Vantage
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Arid Mesa
WBTokensWB
After having gone back to the basics I've found that I've been able to pull myself out of almost unwinnable situations and boardstates. Won a game online today defeating Elesh Norn AND a Wurmcoil... My old lists would never have been able to pull that off. I feel like this simple list holds far more options than the traditional refined and meta-game tweaked list, simply because of how awesome Aspect is when every single non-land permanent is worth its Casting Cost in devotion...
PS. Looking forward to DTK release like it was Christmas Eve
Le Gambit @ Aether did this banner
[NYC Dark Knights]
join today
Le Gambit @ Aether did this banner
[NYC Dark Knights]
join today
WBTokensWB
WBTokensWB
4 Leatherback Baloth
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Kalonian Tusker
4 Garruk's Companion
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Spire Tracer
4 Dryad Militant
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Aspect of Hydra
4 Rancor
Land:
20 Forest
2 Llanowar Reborn
My sideboard was quickly thrown together before heading out, but the gist of it was
1 Experiment One
2 Prey Upon
4 Giant Growth
and Some hexproof green creatures
So here's how the games went:
Round 1: New player? (2-0) This was hardly a game. I won't go into detail but definitely a story for the future.
Round 2: Green-Blue Morph/Ramp (2-1) This was a very rogue build. A lot of cards from the Kiora deck (from Elspeth vs Kiora) were being used as well as some hydras. This is when I felt good in the decision to include Spire Tracer. I basically had it swinging on turn 4 with 3 rancors in the first game for lethal. Game 2 I couldn't close in the first few turns so he was able to have more creatures and bigger creatures at that point. I was top-decking and couldn't find any pump answers so I just sat and chump blocked what I could. Game 3 I mulliganed to 5, wanting to know if spire tracer was just a one off. It wasn't. He even got out flying, but I was able to use combat tricks to kill it.
Round 3: 4c Slivers (2-1) Once again, Spire Tracer turned to out save me as he easily got out first strike into a lord, into double strike. I just kept up blockers and finished him with an unblocked Aspect of Hydra pumped creature. Game 2, he got out Galerider Sliver and swooped in for a whopping 26 or some odd flying damage pretty early. Game 3, he mulliganed so I kept a hand with Spire Tracer hoping he was searching for Galerider without success. He tapped out most of his creatures with Manaweft Sliver's ability to bring out Sliver Hivelord. So, with only 2 creatures up for blocking and not much health I swung in with the team for lethal.
Round 4: Green Devotion, splash blue (0-2) This was a fairly similar match-up as Round 2, but he had Kiora's Follower combined with Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx to ramp into huge stuff, along with Prophet of Kruphix to maintain his defence until he had more creatures than I did. My biggest mistake was not keeping fast enough hands. The second time I mulliganed to a fairly speedy hand, got him to 4, but after that I couldn't get around his creatures.
I've never done one of these recaps so sorry if I didn't do correct formatting or something. I also realize these were odd match-ups that most people won't ever have, as well as the first round doesn't really count. It was also my first time using the deck at an event, so pretty good chance I made some mistakes and kept bad hands. I will say this though: If you have an aggro-heavy meta then I strongly advise trying Spire Tracer in favour over Experiment One, or at least sideboard it. I found going into top-deck mode with only 3 or 4 creatures on the field is horrible when your opponent and is continuing to prepare his assault. It's easy to start ahead in tempo with this deck because of cards like tusker, and baloth, but if you don't use that tempo correctly or quickly enough then your opponent will easily catch up and outpace you. Also I'm using Llanowar Reborn in favour of Treetop partly because I just don't own any Treetops, but also in preparation for Avatar of the Resolute. I'm definitely going to continue to use and improve this deck.
GW Death and Taxes WG
WBTokensWB
The first game essentially went like this: a 12 - 13 year old sits across from me and pulls out one of the old commander decks. I tell him it's Modern night and there's a lot of not modern cards in those decks. He takes out a ziplock bag of cards 100 - 120 cards (not sleeved). He went second and didn't lay a land. He got out 1 land eventually and then I beat him. He only got out 2 land in the second round and a 3/3 mountainwalk creature. Afterwards he offered to sell me a Nicol Bolas* planeswalker and Soulfire Grand Master. He seemed like a nice kid and I've seen him play before, he's not bad. I'm not really sure what happened.
*He ended up selling Bolas to someone.
GW Death and Taxes WG
Sig and avy made the good folks at heros of the plane studios
quotes
That said, like the streamlined version that plays up Devotion. Looks fun! I always liked Slaughterhorn for extra pump...it doubles as extra body or uncounterable Giant Growth on attack that doesn't trigger Eidolon of the Great Revel. That said, with all the pump this thing runs now, do you really need more pump?
As for answers to Cryptic Command, Choke is nice.
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
How to Use Spoiler Tags
Starting Over: The Origins of the Mulligan Rule
Practical Approach to Slow Play
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 2: SWARM and TOOLBOX
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 3
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 4
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Introduction to Tempo
Controlling Tempo
Elements of Tempo
Roadblocks to Tempo
How Not To Build A Deck - Tempo
Learn How To Sideboard, Dammit!
Mulligan's Island
The Art of the Mulligan
The Art of the Mulligan: Eight Case Studies
Fundamentals: The Mulligan
Some Mulligan Exercises
A Mulligan Is Worth Three Cards
The Mulligan Debate
Common Sense: The Art of the Mulligan
Who's The Beatdown?
3 Caves of Koilos
3 Eldrazi Temple
2 Fetid Heath
3 Godless Shrine
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Plains
3 Shambling Vent
2 Tectonic Edge
Artifacts (4):
4 Æther Vial
4 Path to Exile
Creatures (29):
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
4 Serra Avenger
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Wasteland Strangler
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Dismember
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Rest in Peace
3 Stony Silence
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Flooded Strand
6 Island
3 Polluted Delta
3 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
Creatures (16):
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stormchaser Mage
2 Gut Shot
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mutagenic Growth
3 Spell Pierce
3 Twisted Image
3 Vapor Snag
Sorceries (8):
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Blood Moon
2 Dispel
1 Forked Bolt
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Repeal
2 Roast
1 Spell Snare
2 Spellskite
1 Vapor Snag
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Copperline Gorge
5 Mountain
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
4 Wooded Foothills
Creatures (14):
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Atarka's Command
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
3 Searing Blaze
Sorceries (8):
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
2 Deflecting Palm
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Path to Exile
2 Rending Volley
3 Skullcrack
19 Forest
3 Treetop Village
Creatures (24):
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Dryad Militant
2 Dungrove Elder
4 Experiment One
4 Leatherback Baloth
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Rancor
Instants (10):
3 Aspect of Hydra
4 Vines of Vastwood
3 Dismember
2 Choke
2 Gut Shot
2 Deglamer
2 Feed the Clan
2 Oxidize
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Skylasher
1 Unravel the Æther