I think that you and I will fundamentally differ on this, as you seem to be a person that thinks that Tempo Cards (or Tempo Plays) = Tempo Deck. For example a controlish deck that runs Remand is not necissarily a tempo deck, and the same goes here. Any number of decks in the format can be seen to have tempo plays, but that does not make them tempo decks, as Tempo decks maximize each play to have the largest tempo swing. A tempo deck wants to make plays that decrease their opponent's potential resources while at the same time increasing yours. A classic example (though not one fast enough for Modern right now) is Mystic Snake- When played you gain one more resources, and your opponent looses one of their resources. That tempo swing is the goal for every play in a tempo deck. When we have Arbiter in play and we pop a GQ we are actually not gaining tempo at all- the net being 0 as we both loose resources. The fact that we have Vial might add +1 to the transaction, but might not too. When we flicker Splicer we are getting a +2 advantage to our resoures, so the tempo swing is decent, but as I said a tempo play here and there do not make a tempo deck.
How many tempo plays does a deck have to have for you to consider it a tempo deck? Roughly half our games we'll get a vial depending on how aggressively you mulligan, and the playstyle of the deck is radically different without one. Any time we can get ahead on resources, or disrupt them from playing out their hand while at the same time dropping two creatures for every one of theirs is a significant tempo gain. When you win a game because your opponent has half the crap or less than you have on the table and he's got multiple cards in his hand you won because you out tempo'd him.
You're confusing tempo with card advantage. While they are related they are definitely not the same.
Your loss. I am sorry that you do not get to play with your legacy toys in this deck, but that does not make all equipment useless- that is bias on your part.
Legacy toys that allow you to safely place equipment on your creatures without getting time walked from removal on equip. This isn't bias. The only equipment we consistently see in Modern is in Affinity (Cranial) which has a disgustingly cheap mana cost for how much power it generates and is equippable at instant speed. At times we see the odd sword in some u/x build but they're never very successful. If you think you know something the pros don't then by all means keep using it.
I get to see at least twice the number of cards than you do in this deck and choose the best one for the situation- giving myself the opportunity to make the right play for a given situation.
How many Masks are you running? How many fliers are in your list? You're kidding yourself if you think playing Mask allows you to see twice as many cards as a deck without. You know how many times you're not even going to connect with your Mask because their guys on the ground are bigger than yours? This is a consistent problem that DnT has. We don't have very much removal and our bear-bodies don't stand up well to Goyfs, Wall of Roots, Finks and Steppe Lynx. These are some of the most common creatures in Modern, and all of them stop you flat. A card like Rancor allows you to trade with these creatures, or in the case of a first striker, kill them out right. Mask is not suited for this meta.
You want a one-trick-pony, and your definition of tempo is far too broad. By your defn. I am wondering what non-combo deck is not tempo in the current metagame. They all use removal, and since you seem to think that constitutes tempo I am not sure what other strategies there are.
Not really sure where you got me wanting a "one trick pony" from. I play this deck because I love the level of disruption and aggression this deck can create. At the end of the day, we still need to turn sideways and win.
Removal can create a tempo advantage under certain circumstances, but not once did I refer to that. You may have gotten confused while reading what I said about Knight of the White Orchid.
What strategies are you talking about? Do you even understand what this deck does? It's frustrating that I'm typing up such long posts that are going to fall on your deaf eyes when I would rather do something else. I saw your arguments in the Loam thread, I wasn't impressed. Completely biased based on not wanting to buy Goyfs/Bob and refusing to concede to people with superior arguments due to ego.
I just hope that the other people in this thread appreciate me explaining how this deck functionally operates and what kind of cards we need/don't need based on the current "Fat creature" metagame.
Everyone who plays this deck recognizes how much easier winning is when we have a vial. Once we understand what the vial is actually doing, we can try and add cards that do similar things and improve our odds without it, or increasing them even further with it.
Do you think Sundering Growth will replace disenchant in the sideboards or is the extra W hard to achieve (Especially for those running 8 + colorless lands)
Destroying an artifact/enchantment an getting another 3/3 golem sounds pretty cool
Do you think Sundering Growth will replace disenchant in the sideboards or is the extra W hard to achieve (Especially for those running 8 + colorless lands)
Destroying an artifact/enchantment an getting another 3/3 golem sounds pretty cool
I'm definitely going to. Double colors isn't terrible hard to get and an extra golem does sound delicious (though it prob wouldn't happen all that often).
On the NIN/DrWorm rants: the deck plays differently for different people; and this deck is one that celebrates different play styles. Not everyone runs Mutavault or Masks or some of the other cards mentioned; this, again, means that the decks will play differently (ones with Tectonic Edge v. Mutavault). Earlier versions of the deck are more control, some newer versions have more tempo, and there are still versions that are more aggro...
Some people aren't looking to be as competetive and there's nothing wrong with that.
Mask gives more advantage than you would think. Don't try it if you don't care to, but don't slam us for liking it.
"I just hope that the other people in this thread appreciate me explaining how this deck functionally operates and what kind of cards we need/don't need based on the current "Fat creature" metagame." Is a comment that degrades your argument almost completely because it is arrogant and misguided. It's nice to have the spark of conversation, but we don't need your explanation more than anyone elses.
I'd say mask is extremely relevant for most of this deck's games.
Often times, I am forced to play defense with some of my creatures (Leave Vial/Splicer etc. up to pull tricks in response to attack). In these cases, I generally keep one 3 power flyer tapped to do the attacking. If that flyer is equipped with a mask, I can continue the tricks for much longer, and usually pull out the game.
"I just hope that the other people in this thread appreciate me explaining how this deck functionally operates and what kind of cards we need/don't need based on the current "Fat creature" metagame." Is a comment that degrades your argument almost completely because it is arrogant and misguided. It's nice to have the spark of conversation, but we don't need your explanation more than anyone elses.
I wouldn't bother. Players that feel like they know your deck better than you do are often a lot of talk and very little listen.
The card advantage from Mask of Memory beggars belief. I would even go so far as to say that in a deck built around it (28 creatures / 12 fliers), the almost-guaranteed advantage Mask brings when you resolve it is the most powerful card advantage mechanism in Modern.
Wow, I just took another look at Sundering Growth, and that is a card that is DEFINITELY going in my sideboard. I think that in any build with 4 Blade Splicer, which should be most, it's a solid removal spell coupled with a nice combat trick. Heck, even not as a trick it still puts three power on the board (with a splicer).
Wow, I just took another look at Sundering Growth, and that is a card that is DEFINITELY going in my sideboard. I think that in any build with 4 Blade Splicer, which should be most, it's a solid removal spell coupled with a nice combat trick.
I agree. I have been running Pridemage in the side because I wanted a card that had a body, but this will make a body most of the time and it is easier to cast. Even in other decks it will get play- I generally run Krosan Grip when I need this sort of thing, but I will have to look at the meta carefully to see which I like better.
I agree. I have been running Pridemage in the side because I wanted a card that had a body, but this will make a body most of the time and it is easier to cast. Even in other decks it will get play- I generally run Krosan Grip when I need this sort of thing, but I will have to look at the meta carefully to see which I like better.
I think I still like Qasali Pridemage better overall, and have been mainboarding 2. Qasali gives boosts to our fliers and gets the same job done. I love Sundering Growth, but I think its a bit too narrow to be mainboard material. That doesn't mean I can't buy 2-3 for my sideboard.
It's easier to cast and it acts as a cracked Tormod's combined with Wheel, making it useful in the late game. However, I don't know that it's that necessary for modern.
It does power shrink goyf and get rid of a snapcaster's options...but, for the people that run Jotun Grunt, you wouldn't be able to play him and this in the same deck.
You're the same guy who says Bob/Goyf isn't good in Loam, right? I feel like that was you posting.
EDIT: I don't run Mask and practically refuse to run equipment in a white weenie deck that doesn't have access to SFM/Mom. Rancor, and even HtP are far superior options in that regard. The TEMPO hit you take when you waste a turn attempting to equip is nearly unrecoverable in certain matchups where TEMPO is the name of the game (Delver). It's not just a "little bit". You're paying 2 mana to play it, and 1 mana to sorcery speed equip something that generates a small amount of card advantage. The drawbacks of attempting this are just too great. I'd rather play another creature than dedicate slots to a do-nothing equipment.
Liliana of the Veil is played in Jund, one of DnT's best matchups. DnT not only has vial to let us pick and choose what we sac, we also run Mutavault and Blade Splicer. All of these options give that planeswalker fits. If Lili is hitting your hand before you can play it you are in a very bad board state that shouldn't even exist. I can't really think of a way that could happen without you keeping a hand with 1 land that doesn't have a vial.
I have a Boros deck in my meta, but he also runs Mancer, Bolt, Path, and Helix which easily make short work of a 2/1 flier. Even if you flash in response to them cracking a land their chances aren't that bad for hitting one in their top 4 cards.
On another note, I added Knight of the White Orchid to my list as a 2 of, and added a third into my SB for when I'm on the draw. The tempo advantage it gave me was great, and I had zero problems with interference from Leonin Arbiter. Another first striker to get a rancor is very welcome, and he definitely helped with my TEMPO (See the pattern, here?) while on the draw, or recovering from GQing/trading Mutavaults aggressively. Since the land doesn't come into play tapped it creates a lot of situations where you can play a creature and path, or just ensuring you hit your off colour (In my case, green).
Give him a shot, guys.
A ) I agree we do very well against lilliana- jund with lilly is easier than without. I would say that jund matchup changes a bit if they run 4 lavamancer- which I have seen and played against a lot. It is rather difficult if mancer sticks unless you run grunts.
B)The card advantage of mask is absolutely huge- it is not a "little bit of card advantage". You are right to keep the man count very high indeed- its one of the reasons I run mutavault for example. But mask wins matches when you do not draw vial till turn 6, it wins matches you have no right to win. D and T can go long and recover tempo against a lot of decks- or at least some lists are designed that way. I certainly like the game to go long.
c) White orchid, much as I like the card, has no apparent synergy in the deck with arbiter- if you draw it after arbiter that is. Sure you can remove arbiter with 'wisp or whatever, and with a vial its great. But assume you do not draw the vial early or at all. What then - T2 arbiter, T3 Orchid? Does not sound right. I like to test without the vial hands- after all we generally win with a T1 vial as you suggest.
d) Sounds like with white orchid, rancor (or HTP) silverblade paladin etc you are not running D and T, and you are running a very different aggro ww with arbiters and thalias- one that is designed to hurt quickly and not go long. That probably explains why you have a different idea about your deck to some of the other posters- you are probably both right but your lists are probably very different.
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I wouldn't bother. Players that feel like they know your deck better than you do are often a lot of talk and very little listen.
A common problem with this deck is that there are so many versions, and they all have the same name- and so when discussing wires cross. In this case i suspect the deck lists are so different the decks play totally differently.......
This is in contrast to standard where 10 different names seem to be applied to the same delver deck that all play the same way
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How many Masks are you running? How many fliers are in your list? You're kidding yourself if you think playing Mask allows you to see twice as many cards as a deck without. You know how many times you're not even going to connect with your Mask because their guys on the ground are bigger than yours? This is a consistent problem that DnT has. We don't have very much removal and our bear-bodies don't stand up well to Goyfs, Wall of Roots, Finks and Steppe Lynx. These are some of the most common creatures in Modern, and all of them stop you flat. A card like Rancor allows you to trade with these creatures, or in the case of a first striker, kill them out right. Mask is not suited for this meta.
Everyone who plays this deck recognizes how much easier winning is when we have a vial. Once we understand what the vial is actually doing, we can try and add cards that do similar things and improve our odds without it, or increasing them even further with it.
Jotun grunts, multiple splicer tokens and finks stand up rather well to those things in defense. Grunts do well in attack too, and stonecloakers, flickerwisp, restoration angel and mindsensor fly- which none of those men you refer to do. They are all used in some builds. Sounds like your deck smashes face on the deck with first strike, trample etc, which is why mask isn not for you.
On the second point if you mulligan till you get a vial you may end up being sorely dissappointed. The maths is not too nice on doing that- in fact its horrific. Thats without mentioning the possibility of it being pridemaged/maelstrom pulsed/inquisition of kozileked/thoughtseized by the enemy.
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On the second point if you mulligan till you get a vial you may end up being sorely dissappointed. The maths is not too nice on doing that- in fact its horrific. Thats without mentioning the possibility of it being pridemaged/maelstrom pulsed/inquisition of kozileked/thoughtseized by the enemy.
Absolutely. That's why I run 4x Mask. Mask is just a good a card to build your gameplan around as Vial is, in many cases better.
When I look at my opening 7, the question I ask is "which card is my hinge?" Which card does my opening 4 turns hinge on?
Vial, Mask, Steppe Lynx, Thalia, Jotun Grunt -- these can all be hinge cards.
How is it that some of you are having such an easy time with Jund? I wouldn't call Jund a bad matchup, but I certainly wouldn't call it favorable either. It's about 50/50 for me. I don't run Mutavault, but it's not like vault has flying...
Between Thoughtseize/IoK/Bolt/Terminate, I'm lucky if I have 2 creatures on the board by the time Liliana shows up.
It's rare that I have a vial online and a flier in hand to take her out on the next turn.
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Re: Rest In Peace
I'm actually not a big fan of Jotun Grunt anymore. We rely on our opponents to feed him, and his assault on their graveyards is incredibly slow (i.e. it only triggers on your upkeep). Grunt beats Goyf, and that's one of the main reasons I initially ran him. But against other graveyard strategies, I much prefer Relic of Progenitus. It can stop Second Sunrise, Storm, Goyf, Snapcaster, and Lavamancer, AND has a built in cantrip. But an opponent can still play around it (kind of).
Now, Rest in Peace...it doesn't give us a new card, but unlike Relic or Grunt or any other graveyard hate, it absolutely cannot be played around. It sits on the board and requires removal before any graveyard shenaningans can happen. I will definitely test them as my main GY hate in the sideboard.
How is it that some of you are having such an easy time with Jund? I wouldn't call Jund a bad matchup, but I certainly wouldn't call it favorable either. It's about 50/50 for me. I don't run Mutavault, but it's not like vault has flying...
Between Thoughtseize/IoK/Bolt/Terminate, I'm lucky if I have 2 creatures on the board by the time Liliana shows up.
It's rare that I have a vial online and a flier in hand to take her out on the next turn.
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Re: Rest In Peace
I'm actually not a big fan of Jotun Grunt anymore. We rely on our opponents to feed him, and his assault on their graveyards is incredibly slow (i.e. it only triggers on your upkeep). Grunt beats Goyf, and that's one of the main reasons I initially ran him. But against other graveyard strategies, I much prefer Relic of Progenitus. It can stop Second Sunrise, Storm, Goyf, Snapcaster, and Lavamancer, AND has a built in cantrip. But an opponent can still play around it (kind of).
Now, Rest in Peace...it doesn't give us a new card, but unlike Relic or Grunt or any other graveyard hate, it absolutely cannot be played around. It sits on the board and requires removal before any graveyard shenaningans can happen. I will definitely test them as my main GY hate in the sideboard.
I have the same experience as you vs. Jund... about 50/50. Liliana is definitely a strong card vs. D&T simply because it's usually followed with a ton of removal before it even hits the table.
I'm still in favor of Jotun Grunt over Rest in Peace. My area doesn't run any horribly abusive GY shenanigans like Eggs, just control decks that get value out of Snapcaster. Living End is running in my area but still gets hit hard enough by our mana denial and taxing that Grunt is hardly even necessary, let alone Relic or Rest (but I still sideboard him in :P).
As for the Steppe Lynx build, replace Leonin Arbiter with Lynx and run the full set of Flagstones, correct?
How is it that some of you are having such an easy time with Jund? I wouldn't call Jund a bad matchup, but I certainly wouldn't call it favorable either. It's about 50/50 for me. I don't run Mutavault, but it's not like vault has flying...
Between Thoughtseize/IoK/Bolt/Terminate, I'm lucky if I have 2 creatures on the board by the time Liliana shows up.
It's rare that I have a vial online and a flier in hand to take her out on the next turn.
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When people say its our best match up they normally mean its a fair bit better than ok. Very few decks in the format go more than 60% in any one match up.
I find that jund is pretty good- lilliana is not that hot vs splicers and finks, and also rather poor vs icatian javalineers(!), one of the cards I use that few others chose to run (they work well in combat with a splicer/thalia first strike too and against URW can pop in at EOT and take out a lynx as well as hitting bob and any mancers in the jund match and they always hit something vs affinity).
Basically run LOTS of the potential two for one men- splicers, finks, stonecloaker which can save men, and lots of value out of the mana base (horizon canopy and mutavault, not edge) and grunts. Sometimes the strip mine/arbiter interaction goes well enough to put them behind forever when we play but with bob down they always recover when they play.
Basically mask of memory is good here too- a couple of hits and you are out of sight in such a tight incremental advantage game so those 2 for 1 guys are essential as are flyers to carry it. The match seems to come down to an arm wresle- they try and 2 for 1, you do it to them- they draw via bob you do via canopy/mask. I have had a lot of games decided by the mask attaching to a solitary last standing mutavault or splicer and winning form there.
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Except it was necessary and you were biased due to not owning/having access to Goyfs.
How many tempo plays does a deck have to have for you to consider it a tempo deck? Roughly half our games we'll get a vial depending on how aggressively you mulligan, and the playstyle of the deck is radically different without one. Any time we can get ahead on resources, or disrupt them from playing out their hand while at the same time dropping two creatures for every one of theirs is a significant tempo gain. When you win a game because your opponent has half the crap or less than you have on the table and he's got multiple cards in his hand you won because you out tempo'd him.
You're confusing tempo with card advantage. While they are related they are definitely not the same.
Legacy toys that allow you to safely place equipment on your creatures without getting time walked from removal on equip. This isn't bias. The only equipment we consistently see in Modern is in Affinity (Cranial) which has a disgustingly cheap mana cost for how much power it generates and is equippable at instant speed. At times we see the odd sword in some u/x build but they're never very successful. If you think you know something the pros don't then by all means keep using it.
How many Masks are you running? How many fliers are in your list? You're kidding yourself if you think playing Mask allows you to see twice as many cards as a deck without. You know how many times you're not even going to connect with your Mask because their guys on the ground are bigger than yours? This is a consistent problem that DnT has. We don't have very much removal and our bear-bodies don't stand up well to Goyfs, Wall of Roots, Finks and Steppe Lynx. These are some of the most common creatures in Modern, and all of them stop you flat. A card like Rancor allows you to trade with these creatures, or in the case of a first striker, kill them out right. Mask is not suited for this meta.
Non-linearity? What does tempo have to do with that?
Not really sure where you got me wanting a "one trick pony" from. I play this deck because I love the level of disruption and aggression this deck can create. At the end of the day, we still need to turn sideways and win.
Removal can create a tempo advantage under certain circumstances, but not once did I refer to that. You may have gotten confused while reading what I said about Knight of the White Orchid.
What strategies are you talking about? Do you even understand what this deck does? It's frustrating that I'm typing up such long posts that are going to fall on your deaf eyes when I would rather do something else. I saw your arguments in the Loam thread, I wasn't impressed. Completely biased based on not wanting to buy Goyfs/Bob and refusing to concede to people with superior arguments due to ego.
I just hope that the other people in this thread appreciate me explaining how this deck functionally operates and what kind of cards we need/don't need based on the current "Fat creature" metagame.
Everyone who plays this deck recognizes how much easier winning is when we have a vial. Once we understand what the vial is actually doing, we can try and add cards that do similar things and improve our odds without it, or increasing them even further with it.
Destroying an artifact/enchantment an getting another 3/3 golem sounds pretty cool
I'm definitely going to. Double colors isn't terrible hard to get and an extra golem does sound delicious (though it prob wouldn't happen all that often).
On the NIN/DrWorm rants: the deck plays differently for different people; and this deck is one that celebrates different play styles. Not everyone runs Mutavault or Masks or some of the other cards mentioned; this, again, means that the decks will play differently (ones with Tectonic Edge v. Mutavault). Earlier versions of the deck are more control, some newer versions have more tempo, and there are still versions that are more aggro...
Some people aren't looking to be as competetive and there's nothing wrong with that.
Mask gives more advantage than you would think. Don't try it if you don't care to, but don't slam us for liking it.
"I just hope that the other people in this thread appreciate me explaining how this deck functionally operates and what kind of cards we need/don't need based on the current "Fat creature" metagame." Is a comment that degrades your argument almost completely because it is arrogant and misguided. It's nice to have the spark of conversation, but we don't need your explanation more than anyone elses.
Often times, I am forced to play defense with some of my creatures (Leave Vial/Splicer etc. up to pull tricks in response to attack). In these cases, I generally keep one 3 power flyer tapped to do the attacking. If that flyer is equipped with a mask, I can continue the tricks for much longer, and usually pull out the game.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
Don't have time to look at the rest of what's going on here, but I do like rest in peace for sideboards.
The card stands alone too, destroying Anthems, Swords, Vials, Ramp, Wurmcoil Engine, Seismic Assaults, Vedalken Shackles, Isochron Scepter etc.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
I think I still like Qasali Pridemage better overall, and have been mainboarding 2. Qasali gives boosts to our fliers and gets the same job done. I love Sundering Growth, but I think its a bit too narrow to be mainboard material. That doesn't mean I can't buy 2-3 for my sideboard.
wheel of sun and moon is already available- this has up and downsides by comparision, but won't alter much.
Its a bit easier to cast I suppose.
It does power shrink goyf and get rid of a snapcaster's options...but, for the people that run Jotun Grunt, you wouldn't be able to play him and this in the same deck.
A ) I agree we do very well against lilliana- jund with lilly is easier than without. I would say that jund matchup changes a bit if they run 4 lavamancer- which I have seen and played against a lot. It is rather difficult if mancer sticks unless you run grunts.
B)The card advantage of mask is absolutely huge- it is not a "little bit of card advantage". You are right to keep the man count very high indeed- its one of the reasons I run mutavault for example. But mask wins matches when you do not draw vial till turn 6, it wins matches you have no right to win. D and T can go long and recover tempo against a lot of decks- or at least some lists are designed that way. I certainly like the game to go long.
c) White orchid, much as I like the card, has no apparent synergy in the deck with arbiter- if you draw it after arbiter that is. Sure you can remove arbiter with 'wisp or whatever, and with a vial its great. But assume you do not draw the vial early or at all. What then - T2 arbiter, T3 Orchid? Does not sound right. I like to test without the vial hands- after all we generally win with a T1 vial as you suggest.
d) Sounds like with white orchid, rancor (or HTP) silverblade paladin etc you are not running D and T, and you are running a very different aggro ww with arbiters and thalias- one that is designed to hurt quickly and not go long. That probably explains why you have a different idea about your deck to some of the other posters- you are probably both right but your lists are probably very different.
A common problem with this deck is that there are so many versions, and they all have the same name- and so when discussing wires cross. In this case i suspect the deck lists are so different the decks play totally differently.......
This is in contrast to standard where 10 different names seem to be applied to the same delver deck that all play the same way
Jotun grunts, multiple splicer tokens and finks stand up rather well to those things in defense. Grunts do well in attack too, and stonecloakers, flickerwisp, restoration angel and mindsensor fly- which none of those men you refer to do. They are all used in some builds. Sounds like your deck smashes face on the deck with first strike, trample etc, which is why mask isn not for you.
On the second point if you mulligan till you get a vial you may end up being sorely dissappointed. The maths is not too nice on doing that- in fact its horrific. Thats without mentioning the possibility of it being pridemaged/maelstrom pulsed/inquisition of kozileked/thoughtseized by the enemy.
Absolutely. That's why I run 4x Mask. Mask is just a good a card to build your gameplan around as Vial is, in many cases better.
When I look at my opening 7, the question I ask is "which card is my hinge?" Which card does my opening 4 turns hinge on?
Vial, Mask, Steppe Lynx, Thalia, Jotun Grunt -- these can all be hinge cards.
I'd say that Leonin Arbiter and Blade Splicer can also be 'hinge' cards.
Quick question, can someone post a Lynx build? I'm intrigued.
Between Thoughtseize/IoK/Bolt/Terminate, I'm lucky if I have 2 creatures on the board by the time Liliana shows up.
It's rare that I have a vial online and a flier in hand to take her out on the next turn.
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Re: Rest In Peace
I'm actually not a big fan of Jotun Grunt anymore. We rely on our opponents to feed him, and his assault on their graveyards is incredibly slow (i.e. it only triggers on your upkeep). Grunt beats Goyf, and that's one of the main reasons I initially ran him. But against other graveyard strategies, I much prefer Relic of Progenitus. It can stop Second Sunrise, Storm, Goyf, Snapcaster, and Lavamancer, AND has a built in cantrip. But an opponent can still play around it (kind of).
Now, Rest in Peace...it doesn't give us a new card, but unlike Relic or Grunt or any other graveyard hate, it absolutely cannot be played around. It sits on the board and requires removal before any graveyard shenaningans can happen. I will definitely test them as my main GY hate in the sideboard.
I have the same experience as you vs. Jund... about 50/50. Liliana is definitely a strong card vs. D&T simply because it's usually followed with a ton of removal before it even hits the table.
I'm still in favor of Jotun Grunt over Rest in Peace. My area doesn't run any horribly abusive GY shenanigans like Eggs, just control decks that get value out of Snapcaster. Living End is running in my area but still gets hit hard enough by our mana denial and taxing that Grunt is hardly even necessary, let alone Relic or Rest (but I still sideboard him in :P).
As for the Steppe Lynx build, replace Leonin Arbiter with Lynx and run the full set of Flagstones, correct?
When people say its our best match up they normally mean its a fair bit better than ok. Very few decks in the format go more than 60% in any one match up.
I find that jund is pretty good- lilliana is not that hot vs splicers and finks, and also rather poor vs icatian javalineers(!), one of the cards I use that few others chose to run (they work well in combat with a splicer/thalia first strike too and against URW can pop in at EOT and take out a lynx as well as hitting bob and any mancers in the jund match and they always hit something vs affinity).
Basically run LOTS of the potential two for one men- splicers, finks, stonecloaker which can save men, and lots of value out of the mana base (horizon canopy and mutavault, not edge) and grunts. Sometimes the strip mine/arbiter interaction goes well enough to put them behind forever when we play but with bob down they always recover when they play.
Basically mask of memory is good here too- a couple of hits and you are out of sight in such a tight incremental advantage game so those 2 for 1 guys are essential as are flyers to carry it. The match seems to come down to an arm wresle- they try and 2 for 1, you do it to them- they draw via bob you do via canopy/mask. I have had a lot of games decided by the mask attaching to a solitary last standing mutavault or splicer and winning form there.