Working on it right now:nod:
Anybody knows if there is a way that i can view how my post looks without posting it here?
Would be nice to know if the image-stuff works and the headline has the right size.
Working on it right now:nod:
Anybody knows if there is a way that i can view how my post looks without posting it here?
Would be nice to know if the image-stuff works and the headline has the right size.
In the Technical Support section, there is a Testing Grounds sub-forum. You should try it out there.
BTE don't ''die'' to bolt. You use them the turn you want to Nykthos.
They bolt? Simply tap Nykthos with the free mana in response..
I don't get along with the rules too well, but I have had people bolt my Burning-Tree Emissary in response to me activating my Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx. They told me that it has something to do with them getting priority... And I don't get the devotion mana from Emissary.
I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong. But I believe that mana abilities are different from other activated abilities in that they can't be reponded to. You don't actually pass priority after activating a mana ability. As such, there is no time in which your opponent can kill the burning tree emissary without you getting the mana for it. if they try and kill first, you activate nykthos, and if they try to kill after you activate nykthos you should already have the mana.
I don't get along with the rules too well, but I have had people bolt my Burning-Tree Emissary in response to me activating my Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx. They told me that it has something to do with them getting priority... And I don't get the devotion mana from Emissary.
You can tap mana to respond to a bolt and you can't bolt in answer to a Nykthos because it's a mana ability.
BTE resolves, it enters the battlefield, you have priority, as a result the enters-the-battlefield trigger happens. Nothing after that can "untrigger" the mana because you had priority when it went on the stack. People were scheming.
Don't focus too much on all of the individual cards; I point out in the article that new and optimal choices have been found since I put this build together.
I am curious what folks think about the combo potential? Is Curio just too unreliable to leave in?
I think the article is also a nice intro to Nykthos Wave decks and that the 3 tips for playing the deck, especially the Legendary Rule tip, could be something to put in the Primer?
Anyways, descriptions of my cards choices and other info can be found in the article here.
I really like this deck, so I hope everybody can keep working on making the best builds possible!
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Regarding the Bolt vs BTE discussion, this is situation dependent. It's true that you can't respond to mana abilities. However, BTE's trigger is not a mana ability and does use the stack and can be responded to. Therefore, if you have the spare mana to activate Nykthos without the mana BTE is generating, they cannot keep you from getting the extra from Nykthos. However, say you're trying the old turn 2 use elf to BTE into BTE into get 5 mana for Garruk into untap for 7 mana and a titan, they can let the first BTE trigger resolve (because you'll only have 3), but them respond to the 2nd BTE trigger while you have no mana and kill one of them so you still have max 3 that turn rather than 5.
Don't focus too much on all of the individual cards; I point out in the article that new and optimal choices have been found since I put this build together.
I am curious what folks think about the combo potential? Is Curio just too unreliable to leave in?
I think the article is also a nice intro to Nykthos Wave decks and that the 3 tips for playing the deck, especially the Legendary Rule tip, could be something to put in the Primer?
Anyways, descriptions of my cards choices and other info can be found in the article here.
I really like this deck, so I hope everybody can keep working on making the best builds possible!
We have discussed Cloudstone Curio in this thread in the past. It seems (to me) that there were some people who had it in, but they have either dropped Genesis Wave (and thus don't play it) or dropped it for something that adds devotion. I think that most people who played it got to the point that if they are Waving for enough to get their combo online, they don't need an infinite something combo to win.
I haven't had a chance to try out a Cloudstone Curio build (I don't own any and my EDH friends won't let theirs go), but the ones from the earlier days of this deck only played 1 copy of the card. I don't know if the 3 that you run is the right number, I know that you always want to get it but it seems you would never want to get 2 (unless one gets destroyed before you can get your combo off). Sorry I couldn't offer much help, having never played Curio in the deck.
I went to a FNM, those were the pairings and the results and also the decklist:
(I don’t know how to do this, so I will write it the same way as a guy before did)
As you can see it is pretty much the same deck as the primal nykthos on the first message in this thread, I haven’t the Misty Rainforests or the 4th Stomping Ground, I’m running forest instead. Either the Garruk, Primal Hunter (which is a Wurmcoil Engine instead) or the wheel of sun and moon (Wurmcoil Engine and Thrun, the last troll). The reason? I haven’t them. I think wurmcoil is great in the same match up as garruk and even in more, so wurmcoil could fill that slot perfectly. While running 4 primal command I don´t think that sideboard graveyard hate could be really relevant, so I fill those slots with another wurmcoil and a thrun.
THE MATCHES:
MATCH 1: Unespected Results
Match 1: I kept a land with T2 ooze, some mana dorks, nykthos y kessig, pretty resilient and safe, but a little slow. He ramp with an incredible speed and play tooth and nails into ulamog and blightsteel colossus, and I have to concede leaving him at 6 life...
I thought that what I really want was a fast clock (leatherback baloth) in an early turn, and then just keep him away from 4 lands.
Game 2: I’m on the play, not a very fast hand but a couple of boils and the detritivore make me keep it. I command putting one land on the top and searching for witness, then I blow up his lands and he can´t gather 4 mana, repeat the process between witness + command, boil and detritivore. I win after a looong game (the only creatures on my side were strangleroot, witness and a couple of elves)
Game 3: I mulligan to 6 and keep a reasonable hand with command, accelerators, and one boil. More or less the same history, keep him away from the mana for the twin and that’s it, I win.
There were a couple of times when in he has the combo in hand I just lose because if he tap my lands in my upkeep and I cannot play command or boil, he could just cast his twin in his turn and win, the math up seems bad, since we depend on spells of 4+ mana to don’t leave them win and that doesn’t give you any board presence to put a clock. Combust seems strong, but didn’t draw it.
Match 4: Vengevine
I feel confident because of the commands, it’s something that completely shuts up his entire strategy… and we can search for wurmcoil in the meantime! A wurmcoil should be enough for win.
Game 1: I just follow the plan, more or less. I start with an elf, he plays a 1/2 tarmogoyf, in my turn I play baloth, he plays gristly savage and a shaman in my turn I play command, shuffling his graveyard and search for a witness, in my next turn I witness for command and command putting a land on his top and search for wurmcoil, in my next turn cast it and that’s game.
SB: -1 Predator Ooze, +1 Wurmcoil.
Game 2: The same, he can’t deal with command + witness and then wurmcoil.
Easy match up because of command. The card just put him away from winning while we search for a witness or a wurmcoil. He just can’t deal with that.
Match 5: Allys
I feel really confident again; we just win to a creature based agro deck, right? Firesprout or command +7 and search for wurmcoil should be enough.
Game 1: Keep a hand with a lot of mana dorks, ooze, kessig and a couple of lands. He play a tap land, in my turn mana, elf, go. He plays an kazandu blademaster and says go, I play ooze (I was drawing only lands) and say go, he put an Oblivion ring on my ooze and strikes and in the following turns I only draw lands, mana guys, sylvan scrying and utopia sprawl… I lose. Maybe I shouldn't kept that hand.
I don’t know if he is playing 4 Oblivion ring, so I’m not sure about the seal… then I realize that probably he was running aeter vial… but command can deal with that. That thought probably was a mistake too.
Game 2: I kept a very aggro hand, with T2 obstinate baloth and T3 a couple of geist. In my first turn play an elf, go. He plays an aeter vial… I remember about the seals. Second turn utopia on my untap forest, tap forest and untap with elf, tap the forest, that’s 4 mana, play Obstinate baloth He plays an ally (don’t remember, sorry) and says go. I was again drawing only mana stuff… play the two geist and strike for 8, in his turn he plays an Oblivion Ring on my baloth and again I remember about the seals… My turn, draw an elf… really exciting, yeah. Attack with geists for 4, he was on 6. EOT, vial to put an ally…ok. The he plays a kavira evangel and pass. I draw an utopia sprawl… I don’t attack with geist becose of the vial, he can put an ally, then gives his guys protection against green and just block. I switch to a defensive play. Maybe that was a mistake, but leave my guys die for nothing doesn’t seem good. Anyway, EOT he put an Ondu cleric and win 3 life. In his turn he plays two allys (win a really large quantity of lifes) and surprisingly he doesn’t attack, maybe he was scared about what I have in hand (two lands). In the following turns I just draw mana stuff and lose to a giant and growing army.
I still thinking that this is a good match up.
I feel like I would win the FNM if I’d draw better in the last match… but that’s something that just can happen in magic. Or maybe I just play bad and make mistakes in the last match.
THOUGHTS:
I really like the deck; I feel that we have a at least a plan against anything. The aggro plans as well as the strategy of mana screw are both very strong and don’t disturb each other. I think we are very well prepared for aggro and midrange decks. Against control and combo we can play our clock and play the strategy of mana screw while our clock does his job. Also It’s a lot of fun because who doesn’t like playing wurmcoil?
The card that I was always looking for was the Command, It’s just awesome, his options make sense against all match ups and search for a witness to replay it it’s definitely a strong play.
Firesprout also it’s a great card against a lot of match ups.
Wurmcoil it’s just a card that makes you win if the opponent doesn’t deal with him (exile) or finish you before wurmcoil does his job. Definitely a card you want to play against aggro and midrange.
Twin is a match up very dependent on luck; if he has the combo in T4 and you don’t have combust…
CHANGES I WOULD LIKE TO TRY:
-4 Predator Ooze.
+4 Kitchen Finks.
Ooze although it’s great at blocking and really hard to deal with, seems too slow when we are in a hurry, kitchen could be better, but I’m not sure.
I want to try Garruk, Primal Hunter, seem really strong. I’m looking if I can get a couple.
I'm not sure abot the inferno titan in SB.
PS: Sorry about my bad english
Great report. Interesting to see you ran Wurmcoil using the same base I ran, but your meta has a lot more aggro apparently. He does his job in swinging the board around.
I had similar thoughts about the ooze, but when it shines, it shines. Although the Finks are really good at delaying too. It's something that deserves consideration.
The deck and addition of red make it feel like it has a puncher's chance in every game. I love that aspect of it.
Regarding Wurmcoil Engine: In the games he came down, do you feel either Wolfbriar kicked a few times or Primeval Titan would have still been able to close out the game? Obviously Wurmcoil is awesome, but I'm wondering if you had access to all the cards how you'd play it again. Thanks! And your English is quite good.
Regarding Cloudstone Curio we came to the conclusion that the Combo could only be performed when you were already winning the game and thus would make Cloudstone Curio a winmore card.
I have a tournament in a moment trying to make the last fix eheheh...
I want to lay Genesis Wave aside because my whole LGS believe that I'll play Genesis Wave anyway.. so I don't have to run the card for my opponent to try and play around it.
This deck abuse Tutor to speed up into Primeval Titan and win via Kessig.
Also I came to the conclusion that Tooth and Nail is superior over Genesis Wave.. the simple reasoning behind that is simply because with a large amount of Tutor you can easily cast Tooth and Nail for 7 and win the game... I would run Urabrask and Emrakul.
If you're asking for why a second wurmcoil in the SB it's becose wurmcoil is a great target for command, but also a nice topdeck!
If you mean that if I will continue running wurmcoil when I've got the garruks... well I'm not sure, to answer that first I need to try garruk, but probably I will keep at least a Wurmcoil in my 75.
Thanks for your well thought out replies!
Edit: I inquired earlier about Wurmcoil at the end of my report, and someone was dismissive of the idea so I didn't give it another thought. But I think they were thinking from the standpoint of a Wave list and not the Command one. It's obviously great in Command because we are comfortable playing a grindy game as we'll usually come out on top, but Wurmcoil is a good choice for that playstyle and can win a race all on its own. Your points hit the points of view I had on the topic, but I let myself be easily dissuaded from at least trying it.
Also I came to the conclusion that Tooth and Nail is superior over Genesis Wave.. the simple reasoning behind that is simply because with a large amount of Tutor you can easily cast Tooth and Nail for 7 and win the game... I would run Urabrask and Emrakul.
I don't think you can say that without even trying it out.
And I'm not sure of what large amount of tutors you are talking. Pact can't search for Urabrask nor Emrakul and Beast Tracker can't even find Craterhoof.
So there's only Command left.
Don't understand me wrong, I'd like to give T&N another chance, too but 'I came to the conclusion' doesn't really sound like you gave it any proper time testing.
I fiddled with a green devotion since October. I think this one is so far the best as to all possible match ups and consistency. Some 3-4 cards could be discussed as well as the sideboard, but this is it.
Thanks for participating here and showing us your list.
Do you have any results about matchups of something like that, too?
Because your list seems quite different from the most others that are posted here. Are the 3 KotR really enough as tutors for Nykthos? And why the one-ofs if you have no tutor for them? Why the Liege? Or the Sapling? And why so many dorks but no Arbor Elf and Utopia Sprawl?
I arrived at these cards because I tested the heck out of the deck. Some other people arrived at different cards (stuff like visionary and selkie), and that is fine. My meta is different from yours, we're gonna have different needs for our different metas.
Random cards like Sapling of Colfenor and the absence of the Arbor/Sprawl engine makes me believe someone should probably read a few pages back before posting on a developing archetype.
We have discussed Cloudstone Curio in this thread in the past. It seems (to me) that there were some people who had it in, but they have either dropped Genesis Wave (and thus don't play it) or dropped it for something that adds devotion. I think that most people who played it got to the point that if they are Waving for enough to get their combo online, they don't need an infinite something combo to win.
I haven't had a chance to try out a Cloudstone Curio build (I don't own any and my EDH friends won't let theirs go), but the ones from the earlier days of this deck only played 1 copy of the card. I don't know if the 3 that you run is the right number, I know that you always want to get it but it seems you would never want to get 2 (unless one gets destroyed before you can get your combo off). Sorry I couldn't offer much help, having never played Curio in the deck.
The Curio combo discussed earlier in the thread involved Karn and Garruk bouncing each other, if memory serves. I do not believe I have seen anyone propose Curio + double BTE + Purphoros combo before I read the article. Seems worthy of testing. You'd obviously want to abuse ETB effects as much as possible, so you'd use Visionary and/or Selkie for card draw and Finks would be a definite inclusion.
The thing with Curio is that you already won when you cast it.
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It wasn't my best tournament ever I made some bad misplay that costed me some games.
=
Match 1: I went against some Griselbrand Deck
Game 1: He keep a weird hand and he fail to do anything beside drawing more dead card and I win on turn 3.
Game 2: He abuse Griselbrand a couple of time but I Primal Command placing a land on top of his deck and gaining 7 and I win on turn 5 with a massive field advantage. If I had not cast Primal Command he would had Hardcasted Emrakul for GRUBW because of an artifact.
=
Match 2 I go against U Tron.. made some stupid plays
Game 1 : I play Summoners Trap on turn 2 to play Karametra Acolyte but he counter the Acolyte and on his turn he bring my arbor elf back in my hand so I can't pay the cost for Summoners Pact and .. I lose.
Game 2 : I win on turn 4 after casting Primal Command into Acidic Slime on turn 3.
Game 3 : I mul to 6 and keep an ok hand but sadly for the next 5 turn I could not draw a single land and he simply end up with a massive field advantage and I lose.
=
Match 3 Against Mono Red.. same mistake.
Game 1: Summoner's Pact on turn 2 and he bolt Arbor Elf and I lose.
Game 2: I have a massive field but he run ''8'' Blood Moon so I just can't win.. I use 3 Harmonize and I find zero Primal Command/Summoner's Pact/Mwonvuli/Titan .. so I lose in the long run.
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Match 4 : Dega..
Game 1 : I win on turn 4.
Game 2 : I keep a bad hand and he manage to set up a good field with Ajani Vengeant. I end up casting 2 Summoner's Pact on the same turn to search for 1 BTE and 1 Titan (This time I had enough Land to pay the cost for both pact). I set up my field, he bolt Titan but the amount of Tutor in my deck made it so I could recast a Titan on everyturn so he eventually died, he kept taping my Kessig Wolf Run so I had to beat him down with Titan.
==
Conclusion Mwonvuli Beast Tracker is really strong, mix with some Elf Visionary and Harmonize it's a solid Tutor.
Summoner's Pact is really strong and I would never trow it away but I might think twice about casting it on turn 2.
I mostly search for BTE to boost my devotion and win on the same turn or I can search Karametra Acolyte to set up a good field for the next turn.
Genesis Wave less variant is better in my opinion because you can still win on turn 3 or 4. Most game I had Primeval Titan on turn 3.Genesis Wave is cute.
Match up wise I feel like I played against good deck but none of them were bad match up, giving free wins with Summoner's Pact was really what kept me away from winning more Match.
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Born of the Gods bring 1 card to the addition and it makes Tooth and Nails far superior than Genesis Wave.
Xenagos, God of Revels is the card that break our deck.
Tooth and Nails into Xenagos + Emrakul , Emrakul is a 30/30 Annihilator 6 protect from all color .. Xenagos is not a creature most of the time so it's an Indestructible Enchantment.
==
On the otherside of the Wheel there is also a new GWU deck.. TurboLand.
I didn't say that Primeval Titan is slow in general, what I said is that Primeval Titan is slow when running only 1 as a target for Primal Command and unnecesary and redundant while having 4 Sylvan Scrying.
Running 4 Primeval Titan and no Sylvan Scrying is fine.
I would never run this deck without 4 Primeval Titan.. like this card alone makes the deck 10 times better.. and he is a win condition. You are right that 1 Primeval Titan as a Primal Command target is really slow.
I arrived at these cards because I tested the heck out of the deck. Some other people arrived at different cards (stuff like visionary and selkie), and that is fine. My meta is different from yours, we're gonna have different needs for our different metas.
Random cards like Sapling of Colfenor and the absence of the Arbor/Sprawl engine makes me believe someone should probably read a few pages back before posting on a developing archetype.
Same here with the testing part.
The Black/Green deck have potential to be honest so the inclusion of Sapling would make sense but I do feel that some list are not up to date and some are just not optimal.
It's also important to note ,just like you did, that most list are different for the sole reason that our local meta is different but we all came down to the same core idea.
At the moment, I feel like Xenagod will make Tooth and Nail better than Genesis Wave.. I need to proxy test the list.
BTE don't ''die'' to bolt. You use them the turn you want to Nykthos.
They bolt? Simply tap Nykthos with the free mana in response..
I'll keep them.Maybe it's not core for you.I can turn 3 titan most of the time because of BTE.
Cool list.
Only good result so far.
You should run max of 1-2 Stomping Ground and like 2-3 Verdant/Misty.
You can Utopia Sprawl for Red so it's not so hard to have Red Mana, also BTE can filter for Kessig.
Working on it right now:nod:
Anybody knows if there is a way that i can view how my post looks without posting it here?
Would be nice to know if the image-stuff works and the headline has the right size.
In the Technical Support section, there is a Testing Grounds sub-forum. You should try it out there.
EDIT:
I don't get along with the rules too well, but I have had people bolt my Burning-Tree Emissary in response to me activating my Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx. They told me that it has something to do with them getting priority... And I don't get the devotion mana from Emissary.
Cards for sale: Check them out!
You can tap mana to respond to a bolt and you can't bolt in answer to a Nykthos because it's a mana ability.
I feel my opponents have taken advantage of my poor rules knowledge, this is good to know; thanks.
Cards for sale: Check them out!
Here is the list:
4 Arbor Elf
3 Eternal Witness
2 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
2 Purphoros, God of the Forge
1 Masked Admirers
2 Polukranos, World Eater
4 Elvish Visionary
Other Spells
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
3 Cloudstone Curio
1 Primal Command
4 Genesis Wave
4 Utopia Sprawl
2 Fertile Ground
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Stomping Ground
11 Forest
1 Rootbound Crag
2 Obstinate Baloth
2 Ancient Grudge
4 Blood Moon
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Pelakka Wurm
3 Choke
Don't focus too much on all of the individual cards; I point out in the article that new and optimal choices have been found since I put this build together.
I am curious what folks think about the combo potential? Is Curio just too unreliable to leave in?
I think the article is also a nice intro to Nykthos Wave decks and that the 3 tips for playing the deck, especially the Legendary Rule tip, could be something to put in the Primer?
Anyways, descriptions of my cards choices and other info can be found in the article here.
I really like this deck, so I hope everybody can keep working on making the best builds possible!
I studied stuff in college. Hard midterms...
This is probably unnecessary, but I'm going to run a couple for a while after release anyways.
We have discussed Cloudstone Curio in this thread in the past. It seems (to me) that there were some people who had it in, but they have either dropped Genesis Wave (and thus don't play it) or dropped it for something that adds devotion. I think that most people who played it got to the point that if they are Waving for enough to get their combo online, they don't need an infinite something combo to win.
You deck plays 7 combo cards (2 Purphoros, God of the Forge, 2 Polukranos, World Eater, and 3 Cloudstone Curio) it probably would be more consistent with more resilient creatures.
If you wave and don't get a Cloudstone Curio or a Eternal Witness how does the deck fair? Have you tried running Summoner's Pact? It could help you get that second Burning-Tree Emissary if you didn't wave into it...
I haven't had a chance to try out a Cloudstone Curio build (I don't own any and my EDH friends won't let theirs go), but the ones from the earlier days of this deck only played 1 copy of the card. I don't know if the 3 that you run is the right number, I know that you always want to get it but it seems you would never want to get 2 (unless one gets destroyed before you can get your combo off). Sorry I couldn't offer much help, having never played Curio in the deck.
Cards for sale: Check them out!
Great report. Interesting to see you ran Wurmcoil using the same base I ran, but your meta has a lot more aggro apparently. He does his job in swinging the board around.
I had similar thoughts about the ooze, but when it shines, it shines. Although the Finks are really good at delaying too. It's something that deserves consideration.
The deck and addition of red make it feel like it has a puncher's chance in every game. I love that aspect of it.
Regarding Wurmcoil Engine: In the games he came down, do you feel either Wolfbriar kicked a few times or Primeval Titan would have still been able to close out the game? Obviously Wurmcoil is awesome, but I'm wondering if you had access to all the cards how you'd play it again. Thanks! And your English is quite good.
I have a tournament in a moment trying to make the last fix eheheh...
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1 Karametra's Acolyte
3 Eternal Witness
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
3 Elf Visionary
2 Mwonvuli Beast Tracker
4 Arbor Elf
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Harmonize
4 Summoner Pact
4 Primal Command
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Stomping Ground
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Kessig Wolf Run
10 Forest
I want to lay Genesis Wave aside because my whole LGS believe that I'll play Genesis Wave anyway.. so I don't have to run the card for my opponent to try and play around it.
This deck abuse Tutor to speed up into Primeval Titan and win via Kessig.
Also I came to the conclusion that Tooth and Nail is superior over Genesis Wave.. the simple reasoning behind that is simply because with a large amount of Tutor you can easily cast Tooth and Nail for 7 and win the game... I would run Urabrask and Emrakul.
Thanks for your well thought out replies!
Edit: I inquired earlier about Wurmcoil at the end of my report, and someone was dismissive of the idea so I didn't give it another thought. But I think they were thinking from the standpoint of a Wave list and not the Command one. It's obviously great in Command because we are comfortable playing a grindy game as we'll usually come out on top, but Wurmcoil is a good choice for that playstyle and can win a race all on its own. Your points hit the points of view I had on the topic, but I let myself be easily dissuaded from at least trying it.
I don't think you can say that without even trying it out.
And I'm not sure of what large amount of tutors you are talking. Pact can't search for Urabrask nor Emrakul and Beast Tracker can't even find Craterhoof.
So there's only Command left.
Don't understand me wrong, I'd like to give T&N another chance, too but 'I came to the conclusion' doesn't really sound like you gave it any proper time testing.
Thanks for participating here and showing us your list.
Do you have any results about matchups of something like that, too?
Because your list seems quite different from the most others that are posted here. Are the 3 KotR really enough as tutors for Nykthos? And why the one-ofs if you have no tutor for them? Why the Liege? Or the Sapling? And why so many dorks but no Arbor Elf and Utopia Sprawl?
"Primeval Titan is too slow?"
Seriously?
I know what my preferences are:
Predator Ooze
Eternal Witness
Primal Command
Genesis Wave
and
Prime Time.
I arrived at these cards because I tested the heck out of the deck. Some other people arrived at different cards (stuff like visionary and selkie), and that is fine. My meta is different from yours, we're gonna have different needs for our different metas.
Random cards like Sapling of Colfenor and the absence of the Arbor/Sprawl engine makes me believe someone should probably read a few pages back before posting on a developing archetype.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=7718699&postcount=248
The Curio combo discussed earlier in the thread involved Karn and Garruk bouncing each other, if memory serves. I do not believe I have seen anyone propose Curio + double BTE + Purphoros combo before I read the article. Seems worthy of testing. You'd obviously want to abuse ETB effects as much as possible, so you'd use Visionary and/or Selkie for card draw and Finks would be a definite inclusion.
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It wasn't my best tournament ever I made some bad misplay that costed me some games.
=
Match 1: I went against some Griselbrand Deck
Game 1: He keep a weird hand and he fail to do anything beside drawing more dead card and I win on turn 3.
Game 2: He abuse Griselbrand a couple of time but I Primal Command placing a land on top of his deck and gaining 7 and I win on turn 5 with a massive field advantage. If I had not cast Primal Command he would had Hardcasted Emrakul for GRUBW because of an artifact.
=
Match 2 I go against U Tron.. made some stupid plays
Game 1 : I play Summoners Trap on turn 2 to play Karametra Acolyte but he counter the Acolyte and on his turn he bring my arbor elf back in my hand so I can't pay the cost for Summoners Pact and .. I lose.
Game 2 : I win on turn 4 after casting Primal Command into Acidic Slime on turn 3.
Game 3 : I mul to 6 and keep an ok hand but sadly for the next 5 turn I could not draw a single land and he simply end up with a massive field advantage and I lose.
=
Match 3 Against Mono Red.. same mistake.
Game 1: Summoner's Pact on turn 2 and he bolt Arbor Elf and I lose.
Game 2: I have a massive field but he run ''8'' Blood Moon so I just can't win.. I use 3 Harmonize and I find zero Primal Command/Summoner's Pact/Mwonvuli/Titan .. so I lose in the long run.
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Match 4 : Dega..
Game 1 : I win on turn 4.
Game 2 : I keep a bad hand and he manage to set up a good field with Ajani Vengeant. I end up casting 2 Summoner's Pact on the same turn to search for 1 BTE and 1 Titan (This time I had enough Land to pay the cost for both pact). I set up my field, he bolt Titan but the amount of Tutor in my deck made it so I could recast a Titan on everyturn so he eventually died, he kept taping my Kessig Wolf Run so I had to beat him down with Titan.
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Conclusion Mwonvuli Beast Tracker is really strong, mix with some Elf Visionary and Harmonize it's a solid Tutor.
Summoner's Pact is really strong and I would never trow it away but I might think twice about casting it on turn 2.
I mostly search for BTE to boost my devotion and win on the same turn or I can search Karametra Acolyte to set up a good field for the next turn.
Genesis Wave less variant is better in my opinion because you can still win on turn 3 or 4. Most game I had Primeval Titan on turn 3.Genesis Wave is cute.
Match up wise I feel like I played against good deck but none of them were bad match up, giving free wins with Summoner's Pact was really what kept me away from winning more Match.
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Born of the Gods bring 1 card to the addition and it makes Tooth and Nails far superior than Genesis Wave.
Xenagos, God of Revels is the card that break our deck.
Tooth and Nails into Xenagos + Emrakul , Emrakul is a 30/30 Annihilator 6 protect from all color .. Xenagos is not a creature most of the time so it's an Indestructible Enchantment.
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On the otherside of the Wheel there is also a new GWU deck.. TurboLand.
I would never run this deck without 4 Primeval Titan.. like this card alone makes the deck 10 times better.. and he is a win condition. You are right that 1 Primeval Titan as a Primal Command target is really slow.
Same here with the testing part.
The Black/Green deck have potential to be honest so the inclusion of Sapling would make sense but I do feel that some list are not up to date and some are just not optimal.
It's also important to note ,just like you did, that most list are different for the sole reason that our local meta is different but we all came down to the same core idea.
At the moment, I feel like Xenagod will make Tooth and Nail better than Genesis Wave.. I need to proxy test the list.