MTG Salvation

Quote from gnuhouse »

Added a section for "The Nut Draw" for the Genesis Wave version. There is a Turn 2 and Turn 3 nut draw, but if someone could check my work I'd appreciate it

Those look good to me. I think I'd make it more clear you draw the second BTE. One thing I'd add to the wave version is strangleroot geist. I really enjoyed it and the haste made it so that if you hit it and a craterhoof behemoth you're like 90% guaranteed to win.

I've played with Geists and Finks main vs Jund decks and they've always proven to be extremely valuable, even with cards like Deathrite and Ooze in the format. The point you make is valid, but from my field reports they're fairly decent.

Fair point about cards not being sided in, I just listed a variety of options that a Jund/Junk player has. I have had Grafdigger's Cage played against me as it does shut off the Primal Command loop, Genesis Wave, Tooth and Nail, and Summoner's Pact.

One thing to notice is the fact that Grafdigger's Cage shuts of only Genesis Wave and Chord of Calling. It prevents you from putting creatures from graveyard and from library.

Primal Command searches to hand.
Tooth and Nail allows puting 2 creatures from a hand.
Summoner's Pact searches to hand.

I understand it was long day, also for me

I am intrigued about Chord of Calling. Do you think Chord of Calling is better than Genesis Wave in midrange version? Maybe it would be similar to Primal Command suplementing Genesis Wave, and Genesis Wave suplementing Primal Command? Do you think it will work without Burning-Tree Emissary?

I also asked MJ about this deck, you can see replay tommorow. He said my version looks like a bad pod deck (I agree it looks like that, I played Pod and I like this deck more as it works better without Nykthos, as opposed to Pod not wirking without Pod). He also thinks it is too much Coursers (probably 2 only) and that Chord of Calling is a bad Genesis Wave (he said that our creatures are manadorks so tapping them doesnt do anything as they already can tap for mana. He however understand Restoration Angels, especially with Summoners Traps.

So here is my point: Do you think Genesis Wave is better than Chord of Calling in non-BTE build?

Quote from chronocidist »

Quote from gnuhouse »

Added a section for "The Nut Draw" for the Genesis Wave version. There is a Turn 2 and Turn 3 nut draw, but if someone could check my work I'd appreciate it

Those look good to me. I think I'd make it more clear you draw the second BTE. One thing I'd add to the wave version is strangleroot geist. I really enjoyed it and the haste made it so that if you hit it and a craterhoof behemoth you're like 90% guaranteed to win.

Most of the time I found that I had some sort of creature to attack with Craterhoof. Remember you can also not cast it from genesis wave till you have him leathal on his own, and then witness him and cast.

So I ended up playing Genesis Wave tonight, trying a few things out


So for those playing at home, out came the Tooth and Nail and Summoner's Pact, in came the Coursers. I felt that the replacing any of the creatures for Courser was a downgrade, so I took out TnN and Pact as they were fringe cards to begin with. In the sideboard, I felt that the local meta would be skewed towards Jund, Pod, Twin, and blue-based decks, with the odd Affinity thrown in, so I built accordingly. I main decked Boseiju, upped my Stomping Ground count to 4, sleeved up the bad boy and went ready to rumble

Round 1 - Mono Red Koth
Deck totally off the radar being piloted by a former UK National Champion
G1 - I mull to five, not the best of starts. I get the Koth beatdown
I bring in Plow Under, Primal Command, and Ghost Quarter. Out comes Boseiju, a Genesis Wave, a Craterhoof, and a BTE (I think, notes are as rough as my throat)
G2 - Early Strangleroot beats knock him down to 11, he begins to stabilize and drops Blood Moon. Crud. I land a Garruk, -1 him to make a beast. As it turns out, the next turn I'm able to hardcast the Craterhoof in my hand, swing in for 12.
G3 - I keep a rather good seven, he mulligans and has a greedy keep. I manage to start to build my devotion count up as he stalls on land, but as soon as I hit my third land...the lands just stop coming. He then Blood Moons me, so Nykthos is shut off, leaving me with a hand full of 5 and 6 drops, but only three lands. And as I stop drawing lands, he starts. From there I just fell further and further behind and I get Hammered (pun fully intended)
0-1

Round 2 - Kiki Pod
A veteran with the Pod deck, I figured I was in for a good match
G1 - He drops a turn 2 Pod, very quickly goes up the chain to Kiki+Zealous Conscripts for the win
I bring in Damping Matrix and Ghost Quarters, taking out Boseiju, a Forest, and the Coursers
G2 - Little back and forth as he goes up his Pod chain to Redcap and offs my BTE with Arbor Elf, Utopia Sprawl, and Geist on the table as my devotion enablers. Next turn I go BTE into Nykthos into Behemoth for the win. The deck just does that sometimes
G3 - Turn 1 Utopia Sprawl, turn 2 Damping Matrix. He shows me the Kiki in his hand and Resto on the table, and scoops
1-1

Round 3 - Dredge
Not too familiar with this guy. Talked to him afterwards, he's an avid Legacy player
G1 - Catches me off guard with the deck. He drops a Lotleth Troll, starts to go at the whole Dredge plan with Stinkweed Imp, Darkblast, and Loam. I Primal Command for a Craterhoof and shuffle his graveyard into his library, effectively putting him in top deck mode. Next turn I Behemoth for the win.
I was stumped on this one. I know I took out Boseiju for a Ghost Quarter, and I think a Command and a Plow Under for both Coursers
G2 - He just got an absolutely stupid draw, Lotleth Trolls, Gravecrawlers, and Vengevines. Yeah, that happened.
G3 - I mull to 5, keep a hand with Ghost Quarter and Nykthos, proceed to draw no additional lands.
1-2

Round 4 - Affinity
Buddy of mine who just started playing Affinity a few weeks ago
G1 - He gets a decent start, begins down the Infect route with Inkmoth and Signal Pest. I chip away at his life total with a Strangleroot Geist, he starts to poison me. He manages to get me to 9 poison when I just cast a Craterhoof with SRG, Selkie, and a Beast token on the table, swing for the win.
Bring in Damping Matrix, Creeping Corrosion, Nature's Claim, take out Primal Commands and a couple BTEs
G2 - Just the absolute nut draw from him. 9 damage on turn 2, dead on turn 3
Notice how, up to this point, I have not cast Genesis Wave.
G3 - He has a fast start but just cannot capitalize. He Thoughtseized my Garruk out of my hand, which has SRG, Primeval Titan, and lands. I proceed to go BTE into a 2 mana Nykthos for SRG, next turn drop a Titan, and the following turn Genesis Wave for 7. That yields a Garruk, Nykthos, Selkie, BTE, Wave, Witness, and Creeping Corrosion. Buy back the Wave, do it again but for 11 this time. Hit a Behemoth, and he scoops
2-2

Not unhappy, totally misjudged the meta. That or I just avoided all the blue. I think the meta was slightly different than usual, as I know there are some pretty hardcore blue mages at the store. The deck just up and failed me in a couple of matches, but that happens with 20 lands.

Not sold on the Coursers here. I boarded them out vs Pod and Dredge, kept them in vs Koth and Affinity, but more because of it's toughness than the life gain/card advantage.

Quote from gnuhouse »

Pedros's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
4 Arbor Elf 4 Utopia Sprawl 4 Burning-Tree Emissary 4 Strangleroot Geist 4 Wistful Selkie 2 Courser of Kruphix 3 Eternal Witness 4 Garruk Wildspeaker 3 Primeval Titan 2 Craterhoof Behemoth 3 Primal Command 3 Genesis Wave 4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx 4 Stomping Ground 1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All 1 Kessig Wolf Run 10 Forest	Sideboard 2 Creeping Corrosion 2 Ghost Quarter 1 Garruk, Primal Hunter 2 Damping Matrix 1 Nature's Claim 1 Primal Command 2 Plow Under 1 Spellskite 2 Combust 1 ??? (Can't remember ATM)

One thing I just have noticed is the fact that you are not playing Birds of Paradise, and basicly you have BTE in this spot. After Genesis Wave BTE is much better, however how is it before Wave?

Quote from Pedros »

One thing I just have noticed is the fact that you are not playing Birds of Paradise, and basicly you have BTE in this spot. After Genesis Wave BTE is much better, however how is it before Wave?

Before the Wave it's fairly good, although situational. You typically have two plays with it; either you're casting it into something, like a Garruk, or you're using it to power a Nykthos activation.

Last night I did do some funky things with it
- Used the mana from BTE to activate my Kessig Wolf Run in my main phase (no Stomping Ground in play)
- Used the mana solely to cast an Arbor Elf or Utopia Sprawl
- Used the mana to cast Strangleroote Geist. Yes, you read that right. 2 Forests, 1 Nykthos, cast BTE, use mana to activate Nykthos for GG, cast Strangleroot. Next turn was land, Garruk, Primeval Titan

Quote from Shadowwarrior346 »

Have any of you tried Harmonize in the deck? I have added it to my deck, but it have not been tested yet.

Early versions of the deck did run Harmonize. In a BGx filled world, Harmonize is actually really good, but I found I sided it out against most other decks

Just as an aside, from all this theorizing, I'm trying to foil the deck out. Right now I have the following foiled
3 Arbor Elf
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Strangleroot Geist
2 Garruk Wildspeaker (Duels promo I think)
4 Primeval Titan (GP Promo)
2 Genesis Wave
3 Damping Matrix

I just ordered
1 Kessig Wolf Run
2 Stomping Ground
2 Craterhoof Behemoth
4 Eternal Witness (FNM Promo)
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2 Garruk Wildspeaker (German Duels promo)
2 Utopia Sprawl

I'll post pics as I chip away at this. I've never foiled a deck out, but I consider this one my baby so I figured that it would be appropriate

Hi guys!!
First of all, thanks for allowing me to gnuhouse mentioned in the "sample decks"!
So I've tested the deck quite a bit with the list without wave with some success, but in the end I found more solid the hybrid version (gnuhouse's list, for instance), I got a 4-0 on 07/07 with same list! But now I'm applying the splash of white and, in my opinion, with a build right, it may have the potential!
This is the current list, it is constantly evolving!

I'm curious to hear your comments about the list

@gnuhouse

Because you are running the Coursers have you thought about replacing the skelkies with eidolon of blossoms? Yay, at its worst it eats a bolt and is a skelkie for 1 more manna. But if it sticks, or even better sticks through a wave, you get all the cards

Hey, D&T player here, I think the deck has a pretty bad match-up against NyxWave. What are some things that can be run in white that hurt this deck? Would a splash of green or black help the match-up? As I understand, the bad match-ups are against other combo decks that appreciate the lack of disruption. With D&T however, what can white (and other colors) do to disrupt this deck? The cards that come to mind might be Grafdigger's Cage, Torpor Orb, and perhaps Eidolon of Rhetoric?

Quote from damocles69 »

@gnuhouse

Because you are running the Coursers have you thought about replacing the skelkies with eidolon of blossoms? Yay, at its worst it eats a bolt and is a skelkie for 1 more manna. But if it sticks, or even better sticks through a wave, you get all the cards

If you look in the primer there is both a decklist and an article that uses Eidelon of Blossoms. In my opinion, you need to play a real heavy enchantment build, be careful with your Genesis Waves (need to factor in card drawing), and you may not get draws that are as explosive as decks with Selkies. GGG is super relevant in this deck

Quote from DanIsAlwaysTheMan »

Hey, D&T player here, I think the deck has a pretty bad match-up against NyxWave. What are some things that can be run in white that hurt this deck? Would a splash of green or black help the match-up? As I understand, the bad match-ups are against other combo decks that appreciate the lack of disruption. With D&T however, what can white (and other colors) do to disrupt this deck? The cards that come to mind might be Grafdigger's Cage, Torpor Orb, and perhaps Eidolon of Rhetoric?

As pedros correctly pointed out, Grafdigger's Cage will shut off Genesis Wave, but not Primal Command, TnN, or Summoner's Pact, so it's a partial solution. Torpor Orb is a tough one for us to deal with, as would the new one from M15 (Hushwing Gryph I think)

Eidolon of Rhetoric is an interesting one, since it's in the same category as Ethersworn Cannonist and Rule of Law. Personally, I don't think it's that good of a card. I've managed to play through a Cannonist before, and it comes down a full turn earlier. Yes, there are turns where we do have to p;ay multiple spells, but we can bide our time, play Garruk, and then cast one big Wave.

Quote from GreenPowerNow »

Hi, guys! It's good to see so many brews and activity here at this thread. I've been playing all versions of this deck in Modern ever since Theros came out, although with little success (I blame myself almost entirely, I suck as a player). I'm still in love with it, and got really excited about Genesis Hydra and Nissa, Worldwaker.
I was wondering, why don't we work on a new build featuring these two? We would have 3 versions of Green Devotion:
1- Primal Command
2- Genesis Wave
3- Genesis Hydra

The more options, the better! In early testing, and with the availability of Cavern of Souls in Modern, Genesis Hydra is looking pretty strong. I was thinking on adapting Todd Anderson's first standard build to Modern, it could be something like this:
<snip>
What bombs should we use? I'm unsure about Primeval Titan (wouldn't want more than 5 coloreless land-would replace citadel for kessig), Hornet Queen or Terastodon. Also not sure about adding playset of Voyaging Satyr for extra ramp. Curve on 3 is weak...if only we had Yavimaya Elder back...
Anyways, thought maybe a build using Hydras and Garruks could be a thing. I think it's definitely worth the brewing and finding Nissa a place in Modern.
See ya around!
Cheers

Personally, I can't see any good reason to play Genesis Hydra over Genesis Wave. If Genesis Hydra allowed you to put ALL permanents into play, then sure. But you only get one, which makes it much worse than Genesis Wave.

However, if you do look at your build, I think it's too planeswalker heavy. You'd definitely want Primeval Titan in there (the ability to fetch Nykthos is overlooked in that list), and Craterhoof. Summoner's Pact may not be necessary, but if you're dependent on Hydra, then maybe it is.

As for Nissa, I'm torn. I don't want to be playing a ton of 5 drops, and she would compete with Primal Command. He's worse than Garruk Wildspeaker, in that she only untaps Forests (albeit she untaps twice as many lands). On the other hand, she does allow you to recover from a Wrath effect fast. She might be sideboard worthy vs Control. Only testing will bear this out.

In the Genesis wave deck, I try to never run instants/sorceries (except for Primal command.)

When siding in targeted Artifact/Enchantment removal it is typically permanent based (Acidic Slime/Seal of Primordium).

I have to test out Reclamation Sage as well, though it might be too expensive, even with the 2/1 body.

Hey all,
I've played around with the numbers a little, and I'm about to go off and take it for a test run agains "The Gauntlet", a series of modern decks the LGS has proxied up for people to test their decks against, consisting of Affinity, Melira Pod, Splinter Twin, RDW, Esper Control, and America Burn.

Before I ride off to my doom, I thought I might share my current DL with you guys and let me know if you have any thoughts my card choices.

Hey, new to MTGsalvation, found this thread googling for Nyx Wave haha. I picked the deck up a few days ago after seeing someone play it on MTGO in the tournament practice room, realized that the hype for it is gone (I'm a mtg hipster, powerful fringe decks are my thing), and wanting to try it out and maybe improve upon it.

Here's my current list:



I dislike Burning-Tree Emissary. It feels like a win-more card. It makes the deck faster, sure, but only when hands are amazing. If it made RG hybrid mana, sure I'd play it. The R is usually being worthless though. Maybe Firelit Thicket would add value to it, but no thanks. I like only having Nykthos and Kessig as non-forests. Maybe a Cavern or a Beseiju could be good somewhere but as I'm new to it I'd like to keep the mana strong as I tweak.

A singleton Knight feels sweet. I'm not sure if I like the 8th fetchland or a 6th forest. Either way 7-8 feel great with him and his primary use of untapping Nykthos... As I type this I suddenly realize, if untapping Nykthos and saccing a land is all he does, why aren't I just running something like Satyr Wayfinder (?). Something to think about. KotR's value increases if you're playing Cavern, Beseiju, etc.

Acidic Slime kills lands and adds 2 devotion. I like him as a catch-all.

Elesh Norn kills many of the strongest decks in the format on the spot. I don't think I would consider playing without her main.

Craterhoof and Primeval Titan numbers are kind of tricky. I like being grindier with Primal Commands than all in dopey combo, but they're still very powerful. I kind of like the 1:3 split, but I'm not sure on this one. So far when I Wave I've been Waving for lethal, chaining them with Eternal Witnesses (I would not consider playing less than 4, they are vital) so I always get a Craterhoof. I haven't felt light on Titans either, so seems good.

4:2 Primal Command Genesis Wave split feels great. You have game against decks that you have no business beating as pure Wave with the Commands (I actually beat my first GW Auras opponent I faced by putting his land on top 3 times in a row, chumping, and then waving for lethal. The 2 Waves are enough too I think. Sure it'd be nice to play the full set, but a lot of the time when I was playing 4 I wouldn't get enough ramp to get them, not enough interaction to stop them from getting me. 2 is still a decent amount to finish them off with. I have 1 in the board for fair matchups like GB. I would like to have 2 in there but this deck seems to be tighter on sideboard slots than any other I've played.

Abundant growth is Elvish Visionary but better. It also helps me cast my numerous red sideboard cards, Elesh Norn (I don't think I want 2 Temple Gardens?) and KotR. I like cantriping with this deck.

Courser of Kruphix seems cool, as does a Eidolon of Blossoms deck. Kruphix is expensive online though as it sees tons of standard play so I'll hold off on that. That strategy does seem more all-in and fragile and less good-stuff than my deck, but it's worth exploring in the future.

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For the sideboard

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Summoning Trap is ridiculous. They counter something, you get an awesome fatty. Makes counterspell matchups awesome. I'd like 4 if there was room but I don't think there is. It's also very castable. Maybe going deeper on this card could be a thing. That's another archetype though, I'm satisfied now with just my sided pair.

Spellskite is tutorable and the stone cold nuts against some of our hardest matchups. I love this little guy... I don't actually have one online though.

Genesis Wave for the fair matchups. Can't counter me? Can't combo me quickly? I'm Waving you. I'd like to complete the set in the board, maybe I'll do the math to see if it's worth it one day. Pretty busy this month though

Combust. Kills Colonnades and Splinter Twins. Fantastic card, likely not expected.

Ancient Grudge. DIE AFFINITY DIE! STOP KILLING ME. Affinity is now the most popular deck online. It crushes this deck. I want at least 6 slots interacting against them. I'm not sure if some of these or somewhere else should be artifact sweepers of some sort. I haven't played the matchup much.

Damping Matrix. Stops Pod, Twin, Cranial Platings. Great card, wide spread against the most powerful decks in modern? Count me in.

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My list could use some improvements, but I'm really liking this archetype. I tried going pure Wave day 1, but it wasn't my cup of tea. Adding the Primal Commands day 2 made it so much better for my taste. Fatesealing them with their own land is so so sweet, especially when you get to do it again, again, and again. I just wish Command was an instant. I thought it was until I played against Living End, trying to respond to his cascade spell thinking "wtf do I not have priority or something?". Still, a relatively small downside. Cryptic got to be an instant though (although a sorcery speed counterspell would be interesting).

Thanks for this thread guys, I tried to seek advice for the deck on Reddit/r/spikes after making my day 1 deck and not being happy with it but got little help (they don't like fringe strategies there). This thread/site is a fantastic resource of sharp minds

Has anyone tried Nissa, Worldwaker yet? I'm currently running DeadGuy Ale but I really love this deck and I'm just waiting for that one card to push it over the edge. I really think that Nissa is too slow for it, but who knows maybe it is that card.

Has anyone tried Groundbreaker? Seems like a great value card with Eternal Witness as well as a great guy to drop in the same turn as a Primal Command. He provides a short 3 devotion. He also played well with Genesis Hydra if that's a card you're interested in. Very powerful off of a Genesis Wave as well.

In a more all in combo build this could warent testing!!! Who doesn't love Ball... I mean groundbreaker

Also, wondering about Trinisphere. Doesn't this on Turn 2 just wreck SO MANY decks? Getting it later isn't bad either. I'm working towards a Primal Command build that aims to demolish lands so I'm thinking about boarding 4 in against certain matches. The combo of LD and Trinisphere should prove backbreaking against decks like Zoo, Storm, Delver, Snapcaster Decks, etc.

Quote from Caspian »

Also, wondering about Trinisphere. Doesn't this on Turn 2 just wreck SO MANY decks? Getting it later isn't bad either. I'm working towards a Primal Command build that aims to demolish lands so I'm thinking about boarding 4 in against certain matches. The combo of LD and Trinisphere should prove backbreaking against decks like Zoo, Storm, Delver, Snapcaster Decks, etc.

By all means give it a test. Its obviously less effective in modern than legacy/ vintage due to the higher mana curve of being a "t4 format". I think if you are comparing it to something it would be blood moon in terms of when it comes down and what your trying to achieve. You forgot affinity btw