Timbermare just seems awful. So I Genesis Wave into it, hit a Craterhoof as well, then all my dudes waste their +X/+X. Timbermare gets the bonus too, but he gets Path to Exiled.
Stonewood Invocation just doesn't seem to be along the lines of what we want to do. The deck doesn't really want to be playing a ton of reactive spells.
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If I were going to add removal main deck I'd vote for dismember. We don't care about our life totals at all, especially since the shock land count is minimal, and dismember is 99% as powerful as path in modern.
And we don´t care if the oponent have one more land, if Dismember gets countered we lose 4 lifes , with 4 lifes less Zoo can kill with the burn spels, my choose is Path to exile which is better than Dismember
To be fair against zoo you aren't going to really want removal anyways. kitchen finks basically is powerful removal vs zoo in this deck. If your deck can handle the white for path, and it looks like it can, then I guess it's worth playing. I tend to think that removal is mainly for twin in this deck and for that respect dismember works fine. Really depends on the deck though.
The removal as you say is for Twin, and maybe Dismember is better vs Twin, but Twin is not all the metagame, vs Pod decks Path to exile is better, a 5/6 Tarmogoyf we can´t touch it
Hi, I want to play this on next Modern Tournament. What do you think of this Deck? It is a littlebit like Standard but the Cards are so good... Do you think the Gods have a chance in Modern?
Sideboard seems wonky. 1 Mutavault? Black Discard? Blood Moon?
I'm not sure if a Modern port of a Standard deck is going to fly, especially when the only Modern-only card is BoP. I may be off, but in a format that's a turn 4 win (combo/aggro) or runs stuff like Remand, Cryptic, etc., this deck just doesn't seem to fit in the environment. I think the two best ways to run a green based Nykthos deck is to go all out Genesis Wave combo or to go the Primal Command/Plow Under route.
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So Pedros, I've been playing your list and i must agree that it is very good at reacting to a board state. I'll be taking it to GPT Toledo next month. I do think that the SB needs some work though. Anything you think that could be cut?
I have my exams today so I will share m upgraded list later (I managed to fit 2 paths md and 2 in sb).
My latest games:
3-1 FNM (lost vs krak kal eggs (1-2, final game mul to 1. Game 2 hatebears won that game), won vs burn (2-0), BGRock (2-1) and BUG Control (Goyfs, confidants, ooze, clique, kill ad counters all stuff 2-1).
In test games: vs affinity (2-1, 2-1, 0-2), however it is still very hard matchup. Possible need of more dedicated sb vs it (some kind of stony silence / creaping corrosion. I board to 4 path, 2 ghost quaters, kataki, elesh norn, linvala.
vs Hatebears (2-1, 2-0, 1-2, 1-2, 2-0), changes made this matchup much better.
vs BGRock/Jund (2-1, 2-0, 2-0) some mulls to 5 and still won.
vs UWRKiki (2-1, 1-2, 2-1) harder than normal UWR, but better than splinter twin as they take much more time to set up combo, so It is higher chance of us having path to exile.
I think hatebears sb plan is quite good, I think if you go this route Eidolon of Rhetoric might be good vs storm and all other janky combo decks. However it also hurts ourselves so I am not sure about it, however it seems like best card.
I think I am going to try playing 1 Lotus Cobra in place of 1 Burning-Tree Emissary. Playing only 1 BTE is inconsistent, and Lotus Cobra is much more powerful if drawn earlier. Without BTE I cant have turn 2 Titan draw, However I still can have turn 3 Primal Command or Titan. I also noticed I almost never tutor for BTE, whereas I would like to totor for Corbra sometimes (with nykthos and fetchland it generates much more mana than BTE), and both cards works in similar way - however Cobra is better with Titans, Kotr, Courser and Fetchlands, while BTE with Nykthos. Ideal would be some sort of GG card that draws you a card - deck would work much smoother then, and I wouldnt have to play that much Wistful Selkies.
I also want to try playing 1 Horizon Canopy in place of 1 Fetchland - I noticed I drew too many fetchlands and lacked lands to tutor for later in a game, plus didnt have enought targets for Kotr. This will potentially allow me to draw into more gas later in a game, it also works quite good with Kotr, Eternal Witness, Courser, Titan. It will make Lotus Cobra worse, however I still wanted to try it out.
As you might notice I made some changes to both SB and MD:
Split 2/2 of MD/SB Path to Exile.
Exchanged Time of Need for Chord of Calling and moved it to md - tutoring crucial hatebear is much better than swinging for mediocre amount of damage. It can tutor for stuff like Scavenging Ooze, Spellskite and Eidolon of Rhetoric (on this later), whereas Time of Need cant.
I moved Elesh Norn into SB while keeping Craterhoof in md - I noticed most of the time I dont need 2 big tutor targets in one game, sometimes I dont need even 1 of them.
SB I a mess right now with all those hatebears targets, however I am happy with that part.
Thrun - UWR, UR Tempo, BUG, UR twin (worse vs URg twin)
Thalia - UWR, UR Tempo, BUG, Twin, Storm, Eggs, Scapeshift, TRON, all sorts of combo decks, Burn, Living End (they need 5 mana to cast cascade into end)
Kataki - Affinity, sometimes Tron
Harmonic Sliver - Affinity, Twin, Storm, Pod, Eggs, TRON, close to all sorts of combo decks.
Linvala - Twin, Pod, Affinity, plus all sorts of matchups where 3/4 Flyer is good
Spellskite - Twin, Scapeshift, UR Tempo, UWR, Burn
Scavenging Ooze - Storm, Pod, Scapeshift, UWR, UR Tempo, Affinity, Eggs, BUG, BG Rock, Burn, Living End
Elesh Norn - Affinity, UR Tempo, Pod
Other SB cards:
2 Ghost Quaters - I bring them in place where I have to cut some amount of mana dorks (vs Merfolks and Hatebears I have to cut utopia Sprawls, vs UWR and BG I dont want to flood on dorks and quaters can kill their manlands), plus vs Affinity (killing their manlands), TRON (obvious), Scapeshift - forcing them to have more mountains or useful when they have to play Valakut earlier.
2 Path to Exile - Affinity, Twin, Zoo, UR Tempo. Usually I dont board into 4 vs Pod and BG Rock as I dont think it is needed to do so. However 4 is crcial to have vs Affinity and Twin.
1 Courser of Kruphix - this is a slot that might be wrong, I can see myself cutting Wistful Selkie for it (it works similar, but drawing a card is much more powerful than filtering lands). I board it vs all sort of Red decks - Burn, UWR, Twin, UR Tempo, Scapeshift (vs Scapeshift it is crucial to have more than 18 life). Still not sure if I want to cut Selkie for it, or if I want to have 2nd in board.
2 Summoning Trap - crucial vs UR Tempo, UWR, Twin, Scapeshift. Often they counter your turn 2 3 drop with remand. If u have trap in hand you almost always win - Trap into witness get trap back rinse and repeat till you find Titan/Elesh/Polukranos/Relevant Hatebear and go to town from it.
I would like to fit:
Eidolon of Rhetoric - it hurts myself, however I prefer to play with worse deck than die vs all sort of Janky Combo deck. Storm, Eggs, Living End, etc.
X Stony Silence - dont think if needed yet (need more testing), however I have quite a lot cards to bring vs Affinity now.
it is a legit combo. only thing is they must not have a flyer blocker and they did not tap your emrakul down. my friend play this variant and he have problem with twin deck. the main problem is we can't really interact with them as we have little instant. what happened is they will tap down your land to slow your down with counterspells. I play the wave version and I encounter the same problem as well. any solution mainboard?
how would you pilot this deck in a blue heavy and disruption heavy meta? my local have lots of uwr control and twin deck. how do I play around them? should I just adopt a beat-down approach instead of the combo approach?
how would you pilot this deck in a blue heavy and disruption heavy meta? my local have lots of uwr control and twin deck. how do I play around them? should I just adopt a beat-down approach instead of the combo approach?
Assuming that you go the Genesis Wave route, you're not a favourite in game 1 unless you're main decking hate. Post sideboard, you have tricks like Boseiju, Torpor Orb, Combust, Choke, etc. Vs Blue, I tend to take out my Genesis Waves and go more of a midrange route. I will bring in stuff like an extra Primal Command and Plow Unders to disrupt them long enough to give me a decent amount of board presence
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how would you pilot this deck in a blue heavy and disruption heavy meta? my local have lots of uwr control and twin deck. how do I play around them? should I just adopt a beat-down approach instead of the combo approach?
Assuming that you go the Genesis Wave route, you're not a favourite in game 1 unless you're main decking hate. Post sideboard, you have tricks like Boseiju, Torpor Orb, Combust, Choke, etc. Vs Blue, I tend to take out my Genesis Waves and go more of a midrange route. I will bring in stuff like an extra Primal Command and Plow Unders to disrupt them long enough to give me a decent amount of board presence
So I'd swap out my genesis wave for mistcutter hydras sub in two boil and two combust. That worked really well for me in my testing vs UWR and Delver. Delver simply can't deal with the hydra, outside of double bolt which is fine by me, and while UWR has path he's still a hasty huge amount of damage that'll buy you a turn and give you more lands. I was running 4 fetches and 2 stomping ground thought to guarantee the mana for boil so if you can't do that I'd say play choke instead. The reason I love boil is because it's an instant. I've had many a player simply scoop to me after responding to resto with boil and combust. choke does "prevent" them from recovering and costs one less, aka turn 2, so those are both points in it's favor. I think I'd go 1 and 1 if I were to play this deck anywhere big again.
A certain new green planeswalker looks legit in this deck! I don't want to break the rules but have a look if your interested.
Not to discuss her too much, but the fact that she can only untap Forests is a big red flag for me. Plus, she "competes" with Prime Time for my Magical Christmas Land turn three play
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A certain new green planeswalker looks legit in this deck! I don't want to break the rules but have a look if your interested.
Not to discuss her too much, but the fact that she can only untap Forests is a big red flag for me. Plus, she "competes" with Prime Time for my Magical Christmas Land turn three play
That being said, I'll be testing her out.
Agreed the second ability has been worded that way for a reason. But hey, new toys are fun.
On another note, what manner of sb tech do we have against jund? My meta is full of it and all i have thought of is baloth.
I run 3 Scavenging Ooze's in the side against Jund. They destroy Tarmo and I'm even happy when it eats a Thought or Koz. Even if it gets abrupt decayed I'm usually happy because it saves my Arbor Elf/Burning Tree/Courser of Kruphix who all have double green Devotion.
Also, is there a reason not to run summoner's pact? It doesn't play well with genesis wave but it is primeval titan 5-8,craterhoof 2-4 ect.
I actually think that Pact and/or Tooth and Nail are perfectly acceptable in a Genesis Wave version of the deck. Yes, I realize that this goes against some of what I've said before in this thread, but after playing with them I've found one of each works just fine in the deck. I'm likely siding them out vs any form of Cryptic Command/Remand decks, but anything else allows me to win on the spot.
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Also, is there a reason not to run summoner's pact? It doesn't play well with genesis wave but it is primeval titan 5-8,craterhoof 2-4 ect.
I actually think that Pact and/or Tooth and Nail are perfectly acceptable in a Genesis Wave version of the deck. Yes, I realize that this goes against some of what I've said before in this thread, but after playing with them I've found one of each works just fine in the deck. I'm likely siding them out vs any form of Cryptic Command/Remand decks, but anything else allows me to win on the spot.
Interesting. So reading the past 10 pages, it seems the genesis wave version has gone out of fashion. Do you have a current list your playing? Im thinking 2 waves, 4 primal currently but id be interested in testing the pact as a3-4of
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Timbermare just seems awful. So I Genesis Wave into it, hit a Craterhoof as well, then all my dudes waste their +X/+X. Timbermare gets the bonus too, but he gets Path to Exiled.
Stonewood Invocation just doesn't seem to be along the lines of what we want to do. The deck doesn't really want to be playing a ton of reactive spells.
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The removal as you say is for Twin, and maybe Dismember is better vs Twin, but Twin is not all the metagame, vs Pod decks Path to exile is better, a 5/6 Tarmogoyf we can´t touch it
Sideboard seems wonky. 1 Mutavault? Black Discard? Blood Moon?
I'm not sure if a Modern port of a Standard deck is going to fly, especially when the only Modern-only card is BoP. I may be off, but in a format that's a turn 4 win (combo/aggro) or runs stuff like Remand, Cryptic, etc., this deck just doesn't seem to fit in the environment. I think the two best ways to run a green based Nykthos deck is to go all out Genesis Wave combo or to go the Primal Command/Plow Under route.
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Decks:
Standard:
Nope
Modern:
Mono-Green Nykthos
Gifts Tron
Melira Pod
Legacy:
Maverick (retired)
My latest games:
3-1 FNM (lost vs krak kal eggs (1-2, final game mul to 1. Game 2 hatebears won that game), won vs burn (2-0), BGRock (2-1) and BUG Control (Goyfs, confidants, ooze, clique, kill ad counters all stuff 2-1).
In test games: vs affinity (2-1, 2-1, 0-2), however it is still very hard matchup. Possible need of more dedicated sb vs it (some kind of stony silence / creaping corrosion. I board to 4 path, 2 ghost quaters, kataki, elesh norn, linvala.
vs Hatebears (2-1, 2-0, 1-2, 1-2, 2-0), changes made this matchup much better.
vs BGRock/Jund (2-1, 2-0, 2-0) some mulls to 5 and still won.
vs UWRKiki (2-1, 1-2, 2-1) harder than normal UWR, but better than splinter twin as they take much more time to set up combo, so It is higher chance of us having path to exile.
I think hatebears sb plan is quite good, I think if you go this route Eidolon of Rhetoric might be good vs storm and all other janky combo decks. However it also hurts ourselves so I am not sure about it, however it seems like best card.
I think I am going to try playing 1 Lotus Cobra in place of 1 Burning-Tree Emissary. Playing only 1 BTE is inconsistent, and Lotus Cobra is much more powerful if drawn earlier. Without BTE I cant have turn 2 Titan draw, However I still can have turn 3 Primal Command or Titan. I also noticed I almost never tutor for BTE, whereas I would like to totor for Corbra sometimes (with nykthos and fetchland it generates much more mana than BTE), and both cards works in similar way - however Cobra is better with Titans, Kotr, Courser and Fetchlands, while BTE with Nykthos. Ideal would be some sort of GG card that draws you a card - deck would work much smoother then, and I wouldnt have to play that much Wistful Selkies.
I also want to try playing 1 Horizon Canopy in place of 1 Fetchland - I noticed I drew too many fetchlands and lacked lands to tutor for later in a game, plus didnt have enought targets for Kotr. This will potentially allow me to draw into more gas later in a game, it also works quite good with Kotr, Eternal Witness, Courser, Titan. It will make Lotus Cobra worse, however I still wanted to try it out.
As you might notice I made some changes to both SB and MD:
Split 2/2 of MD/SB Path to Exile.
Exchanged Time of Need for Chord of Calling and moved it to md - tutoring crucial hatebear is much better than swinging for mediocre amount of damage. It can tutor for stuff like Scavenging Ooze, Spellskite and Eidolon of Rhetoric (on this later), whereas Time of Need cant.
I moved Elesh Norn into SB while keeping Craterhoof in md - I noticed most of the time I dont need 2 big tutor targets in one game, sometimes I dont need even 1 of them.
SB I a mess right now with all those hatebears targets, however I am happy with that part.
Thrun - UWR, UR Tempo, BUG, UR twin (worse vs URg twin)
Thalia - UWR, UR Tempo, BUG, Twin, Storm, Eggs, Scapeshift, TRON, all sorts of combo decks, Burn, Living End (they need 5 mana to cast cascade into end)
Kataki - Affinity, sometimes Tron
Harmonic Sliver - Affinity, Twin, Storm, Pod, Eggs, TRON, close to all sorts of combo decks.
Linvala - Twin, Pod, Affinity, plus all sorts of matchups where 3/4 Flyer is good
Spellskite - Twin, Scapeshift, UR Tempo, UWR, Burn
Scavenging Ooze - Storm, Pod, Scapeshift, UWR, UR Tempo, Affinity, Eggs, BUG, BG Rock, Burn, Living End
Elesh Norn - Affinity, UR Tempo, Pod
Other SB cards:
2 Ghost Quaters - I bring them in place where I have to cut some amount of mana dorks (vs Merfolks and Hatebears I have to cut utopia Sprawls, vs UWR and BG I dont want to flood on dorks and quaters can kill their manlands), plus vs Affinity (killing their manlands), TRON (obvious), Scapeshift - forcing them to have more mountains or useful when they have to play Valakut earlier.
2 Path to Exile - Affinity, Twin, Zoo, UR Tempo. Usually I dont board into 4 vs Pod and BG Rock as I dont think it is needed to do so. However 4 is crcial to have vs Affinity and Twin.
1 Courser of Kruphix - this is a slot that might be wrong, I can see myself cutting Wistful Selkie for it (it works similar, but drawing a card is much more powerful than filtering lands). I board it vs all sort of Red decks - Burn, UWR, Twin, UR Tempo, Scapeshift (vs Scapeshift it is crucial to have more than 18 life). Still not sure if I want to cut Selkie for it, or if I want to have 2nd in board.
2 Summoning Trap - crucial vs UR Tempo, UWR, Twin, Scapeshift. Often they counter your turn 2 3 drop with remand. If u have trap in hand you almost always win - Trap into witness get trap back rinse and repeat till you find Titan/Elesh/Polukranos/Relevant Hatebear and go to town from it.
I would like to fit:
Eidolon of Rhetoric - it hurts myself, however I prefer to play with worse deck than die vs all sort of Janky Combo deck. Storm, Eggs, Living End, etc.
X Stony Silence - dont think if needed yet (need more testing), however I have quite a lot cards to bring vs Affinity now.
4 Utopia Sprawl
2 Birds of Paradise
2 Path to Exile
1 Lotus Cobra
4 Eternal Witness
3 Wistful Selkie
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
2 Restoration Angel
1 Polukranos, World Eater
3 Primeval Titan
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Chord of Calling
5 Forest
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Temple Garden
1 Stomping Ground
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Kessig Wolf Run
2 Summoning Trap
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Path to Exile
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Assuming that you go the Genesis Wave route, you're not a favourite in game 1 unless you're main decking hate. Post sideboard, you have tricks like Boseiju, Torpor Orb, Combust, Choke, etc. Vs Blue, I tend to take out my Genesis Waves and go more of a midrange route. I will bring in stuff like an extra Primal Command and Plow Unders to disrupt them long enough to give me a decent amount of board presence
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So I'd swap out my genesis wave for mistcutter hydras sub in two boil and two combust. That worked really well for me in my testing vs UWR and Delver. Delver simply can't deal with the hydra, outside of double bolt which is fine by me, and while UWR has path he's still a hasty huge amount of damage that'll buy you a turn and give you more lands. I was running 4 fetches and 2 stomping ground thought to guarantee the mana for boil so if you can't do that I'd say play choke instead. The reason I love boil is because it's an instant. I've had many a player simply scoop to me after responding to resto with boil and combust. choke does "prevent" them from recovering and costs one less, aka turn 2, so those are both points in it's favor. I think I'd go 1 and 1 if I were to play this deck anywhere big again.
Not to discuss her too much, but the fact that she can only untap Forests is a big red flag for me. Plus, she "competes" with Prime Time for my Magical Christmas Land turn three play
That being said, I'll be testing her out.
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Agreed the second ability has been worded that way for a reason. But hey, new toys are fun.
On another note, what manner of sb tech do we have against jund? My meta is full of it and all i have thought of is baloth.
I actually think that Pact and/or Tooth and Nail are perfectly acceptable in a Genesis Wave version of the deck. Yes, I realize that this goes against some of what I've said before in this thread, but after playing with them I've found one of each works just fine in the deck. I'm likely siding them out vs any form of Cryptic Command/Remand decks, but anything else allows me to win on the spot.
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Currently playing:
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Legacy UBTezzAffinity
My Cube
Interesting. So reading the past 10 pages, it seems the genesis wave version has gone out of fashion. Do you have a current list your playing? Im thinking 2 waves, 4 primal currently but id be interested in testing the pact as a3-4of