MTG Salvation

This is the shell I've been playing for a Grixis white splash cruel variant. The white splash makes the mana more difficult, but makes your sideboard options incredible, and it gives you really powerful "hate" for most matchups.

Devour flesh is really quite an awesome card to play in here. It's not good against lingering souls, blade splicer, or other similar effects, but it's very strong against any UWR deck, gives you answers to Thrun, gets around a lot of the protection infect plays, and is super powerful against Slippery Bogle style decks. In other words, it's an answer to the cards that most frequently beat control variants in the format. Devour Flesh also can randomly be good against any deck that can cheat emrakul out (through the breach, polymorph, goryo's vengeance, etc).

Just a question but what do you typically discard in the draw some discard some package? Do you ever find yourself needing what you discard?
I'm always hesitant to try out thought flare or thirst because I fear ill make a wrong call on my discard and throw something away ill end up needing.

I run 4 think twice but I figured pulling 4 at once gives me greater odds of pulling what I need Instead of 4 separately.

But the advantage of the discard is card filtering, it allows you to get rid of things you don't need and trade them for better cards, ie things like discard when they habd is emty, removal aginst decks with no creatures.

I would love to see your deck list cyceron

Quote from cset

the guy i was originally talking to is running tribute to hunger because he feels geth's verdict's BB cost makes it more or equally difficult to cast in a multicolor deck. He may or may not be right about that (personally I'd agree you're not likely to be able to cast geth's verdict on turn 2 in a 3-color deck) but I'm pretty sure far//away is a strictly better card than tribute in 99% of situations.
I might be wrong tho.

I believe you'd almost never rather bounce a creature, and the life gain for a control deck will probably be more relevant than the ability to bounce another creature first for a 2-mana surcharge.

Once I fix up my mana base, just waiting on a few more cards, I'll more than happily run geth's.

I still think that people should be using Devour Flesh, The main reason to run sac effects is to deal with threats like Geist and Thrun, and being able to cast it quicker than Tribute, an easier than Verdict, is defiantly a decent reason to run it. The life gain (most of the time) wont matter against decks you want life gain against, and the 1 life loss isn't worth the harder to cast mana cost of Verdict. Giving people life isn't that big of a deal, our deck is about controlling the late game anyway, so it's not like we're trying to race any decks, so we can deal with the extra life later.

So As i am putting a grixis control deck together for the fall standard season, I thought i would port that love over to another format, here we go



Comments and suggestions welcomed, I am still looking for two cards to round out the main deck

So at second look your right Preordain isnt legal in modern, not sure what i was thinking about.

here is the next look



So for this update i replaced Preordain with faithless looting, which so far feels better than think twice, slieght of hand, or serum. I have cut it down to 2 ultimatums and as it was 58 cards (57 with the cut) I added 3 remand. As for Mana Leak I think I have to disagree, partialy. IMHO mana leak is the best hard counter in modern, and in todays world where every one is trying to use all thier mana every turn I think you will find plenty of things to counter late game. I agree however that Mana Leak is most powerful in the early game as it wont always counter the best target late game. My issue is that if i cut to 2 Mana Leak I am less likely to see it when its most powerful (early game) and more likely with 2 copies to draw it mid to late game at awkward times. I am not a math guy but if some one reading this is I think the questions should be framed like this. What is the precent chance i draw 1 mana leak by turn 3 if I have 4 in my deck vs 2? And what is the chance that i draw my third mana leak by turn 10 (this is an arbitrary number representing late game of a control deck where it would be awkward to have mana leak) with 4 copies , vs what is the chance i draw 1 by turn 3 (when it would be most powerful) with 2 copies.

now as for the last spot Niv was a negotiable addition and i am looking for a good finisher, with only 2 ultimatums im not sure this deck can reliably get 20 dmg in. when I cst ultimatum i want it to be setting up my late game, locking down my opponent and clearing the way for me to finish them off and im not sure that snaping ultimatums lets me get there reliably enough. So I would like some suggestions on a finisher for the deck.

Quote from pboyle205

So at second look your right Preordain isnt legal in modern, not sure what i was thinking about.

here is the next look

Badd Business's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
CREATURES 3x Snapcaster Mage 4x Mulldrifter 1x Finisher??? SPELLS 4x Faithless Looting 4x Inquisition of Kozilek 4x lightning Bolt 4x Mana Leak 3x Remand 4x Terminate 2x Slagstorm 2x Cruel Ultimatum	LANDS 3x Blood Crypt 3x Creeping Tar Pit 1x Island 2x Mountain 4x Reflecting Pool 4x Steam Vents 2x Swamps 2x Vivid Crag 1x Vivid Creek 1x Vivid Marsh 2x Watery Grave	SIDEBOARD 3x Smelt 4x negate 2x Rakdos Charm 2x Slaughter Games 2x Sowing Salt 1x Grave Titan 1x Nicol Bolas

So for this update i replaced Preordain with faithless looting, which so far feels better than think twice, slieght of hand, or serum. I have cut it down to 2 ultimatums and as it was 58 cards (57 with the cut) I added 3 remand. As for Mana Leak I think I have to disagree, partialy. IMHO mana leak is the best hard counter in modern, and in todays world where every one is trying to use all thier mana every turn I think you will find plenty of things to counter late game. I agree however that Mana Leak is most powerful in the early game as it wont always counter the best target late game. My issue is that if i cut to 2 Mana Leak I am less likely to see it when its most powerful (early game) and more likely with 2 copies to draw it mid to late game at awkward times. I am not a math guy but if some one reading this is I think the questions should be framed like this. What is the precent chance i draw 1 mana leak by turn 3 if I have 4 in my deck vs 2? And what is the chance that i draw my third mana leak by turn 10 (this is an arbitrary number representing late game of a control deck where it would be awkward to have mana leak) with 4 copies , vs what is the chance i draw 1 by turn 3 (when it would be most powerful) with 2 copies.

now as for the last spot Niv was a negotiable addition and i am looking for a good finisher, with only 2 ultimatums im not sure this deck can reliably get 20 dmg in. when I cst ultimatum i want it to be setting up my late game, locking down my opponent and clearing the way for me to finish them off and im not sure that snaping ultimatums lets me get there reliably enough. So I would like some suggestions on a finisher for the deck.

Okay, first off, faithless looting is awful in any control deck. It does give you selection, but it's card disadvantage. If you want the loot effect, play Izzet charm as it can actually counter spells and kill creatures. When it isn't relevant, you can use it's loot ability, but even then it's not the best option. If you want a suitable replacement for looting, swap them for Izzet charms or Serum Visions. Visions is the most functionally similar card to preordain (and isn't bad itself), and izzet charm is a jack of all trades that can do the same thing looting can.

Second off, you are already playing 2 finishers. The only finisher you need in cruel control is Cruel Ultimatum itself combined with Snapcaster mage and manlands. You can get as much damage in as you ever will need, especially when you start flashing back ultimatums with Snapcaster mage. If for some crazy reason you can't kill your opponent simply through that means, you should be able to bolt them to death, kill them with manlands, or find some other means to win.

Third, If you can afford them, you should be playing 2-3 Cryptic commands. They offer tons of versatility, and resolving a cryptic typically ends up being the difference any control oriented mirror. If not, it's not a big deal, but having access to cryptic is a big deal in modern control decks as it gives blue decks a ridiculous amount of versatility.

Outside that, this actually looks pretty good.

Quote from cyceron

usually , you don't need to bounce a creature , most of CruelC have a decent amount of removal to get that nasty creatures out of board , away part is pretty mediocre , the only thing that makes me think far/away is useful is because there are 2 utilities in 1 card but not much more , to bounche creatures i'd run vapor snag, for sacrifices , my favourite by far is geth's verdict if far could bounce planeswalkers too i'd definetly run a couple of copy but that's not the case.

I think you are seriously underestimating far // away. for starters i don't HAVE to bounce your creature. There are plenty of times where I would love to get back my own snapcaster mage and force them to sacrifice. There are other times where a thrun or geist are running about and they have a stupid soul's token sitting right next to them.

Seriously... you may not always need to bounce a threat, but the possibility to do so is just flat better than dealing 1 damage, or gaining some life. Card advantage and flexibility are simply that important.

I am slowly getting my modern card base up (getting staples like fetches, shocks and snapcasters) and I was debating the utility of Bloodchief Ascension in a grixis control build.

At first glance, it looks like Bloodchief Ascension would be a great T1 or T2 drop to establish a lot of control. From what I have read around there isn't much in the way of removal for enchantments currently in modern save for Oblivion Ring and the occasional bounce, so it should be pretty safe in play early. If you can get a T1 drop on a Bloodchief Ascension you can slow down your opponent from dropping shock lands untapped and can make them hesitate to use phyrexian mana. With simple burn spells and some GY hate from Deathrite Shaman you should be able to get 3 counters on it by turn 3-4.

Once it is up and running each removal you do, or spell your opponent casts in response to you whittles them down and builds you up and help to survive any initial aggro dmg or threats you still need to neutralize. If you get more than one Bloodchief Ascension in play, the first to activate helps activated the second too. It also makes Cruel Ultimatum or any discard/mill cards very deadly. And of course you can combo it with Mindcrank for a wincon.

I am still new to modern and competitive magic, so this works in my head, but I don't know if it will really play well. Thoughts?

I played a list similar to Badd Business's a while ago, (Which I have now named Shinning Cruelty, to represent the white splash into Cruel control). Here's my most recent recreation of it:



Some of the main difference's here form mine and Badd Business's is that I take advantage of my white splash not only in the sideboard, but also the main board, the main reason behind this is Esper charm, my draw spell of choice opposed to Badd Business's Thoughtflare, I just didn't feel comfortable with card draw costing that much. I don't, however, get filter with Esper charm, which is the reason I added a second Izzet charm, just in case I feel I need to filter through some things that gives me the option to do it more often. But the utility from Esper charm is great, being able to destroy troublesome enchantments main board, drawing (and still netting the same total number of cards as Thoughtflare) and if they are low in hand, the option to make them discard, which combined with a Cruel Ultimatum will more than likely empty the hands of most opponents.

Another notable difference is that I don't have a swamp, but instead have a plains, I didn't have anyway to search for a swamp with my fetches, so having two Arid Mesa would mean that I would be able to have more options to take less damage through shocks, also having access to a second white mana source if my first is destroyed is a very big advantage.

Other than that my list is fairly normal, this is a list I have built through idea more than testing so I will return with a possibly updated list and results on how this one did. One thing I'm defiantly thinking is whether or not I should take the Grafdiggers cage out of the sideboard or not, It just seems like its so much more of an advantage against Pod, which from seeing the last GP seems very popular, that It's worth the nullification of Snappy. Well I guess I'll see in testing any and all comments as always are greatly appreciated.

turn and burn?

@cyceron Thanks for the advice c: But just I have a couple questions

Why is the mountain useless if I'm playing white? I play more red than white in the deck so I'll probably want to have access to a source of red that won't cost me life.

On having 9 fetch land, I feel that I just need them, I need to be able to access white and each and everyone of them can fetch for Hallowed Fountain. I want to keep it around 9 because that feels like a good percent of the time I'll be able to see my white sources. However, I could see adding in some more filter lands.

On Celestial Colonnade, since I'm only running a single Hallowed Fountain and a plains, I don't think its the best card to add in. I use to playing them over Celestial Colonnade in a much older version of the deck, but I got told I'd be better off running Creeping Tar Pit, Who knows, maybe I might try it out again.

For the mountain, its more for something I can fetch from ghost quarter or path to exile and then if I dont have anything else to search for from my fetches I can search for it, but you do bring a good point, However If I dont counter blood moon, then I should have Esper charm at least. But you do bring a good point with the mountain I might experimet with the idea thanks c:

And for black mana fixing I prefer shnken ruins, since it also helps blue for cryptic. Thats just my preference though.

Also your english if fine, its probably better than mine and English is my obly language

thank you lordy Cryptic Command is in modern masters@ I had a feeling it would be.
and vendillon clique..Looks like Ill be taking a bunch of shots at opening them/trading for them now

Hey guys, taking into account recent bannings, new cards and the current meta, what changes would y'all make to Magicman657's list?