So this has been an adventure for me to try, and when I say that I mean... WHEW! It felt soooo good playing this on FNM and being able to go 3-1 with it and even the days before that going 4-0! This deck has just done such a fantastic job of keeping the heat up and the pace even faster. Now take what yall may, but I want some insight on what you guys think about how this works well and doesn't seem to work. But to me, it puts in everything it has!
Hey everyone, i am currently building this deck as i already own the core. I just need my discard spells and i'm pretty much set.
Now what i wonder is: All your lists are really really heavy on control. Would it be worth to make the list a bit more Midrange with Gurmag Anglers and Tasigurs as threats along the Cruel Ultimatum? For reference my current list looks like this:
Still not sure about the Sideboard to be honest. Also i really want to run a 2nd Cruel Ultimatum. As for Sire of Stagnation: That card is just so much fun to play. Obviously it dies to everything, but drawing up to 4 cards per turn feels soooo goooooood
Good work Xremag! You should Rune Snag if you want 4 of that effect in the 60. I would consider Anger of the Gods.
More thoughts to come.
Radiant Flames has done be some good in the past in conjunction with Kalitas and it saves my own guys however after facing multiple Voices against the Company deck I think I still need Anger even if it is harder on the mana. With the current plan Radiant might as well be a turn 5 plan which is something I cannot afford against that combo deck.
As for Rune Snag I have debated it. I like that it is useful late game but running the full Snaps make it worse when you flashback them too often. I may test it.
Hey everyone, i am currently building this deck as i already own the core. I just need my discard spells and i'm pretty much set.
Now what i wonder is: All your lists are really really heavy on control. Would it be worth to make the list a bit more Midrange with Gurmag Anglers and Tasigurs as threats along the Cruel Ultimatum? For reference my current list looks like this:
Still not sure about the Sideboard to be honest. Also i really want to run a 2nd Cruel Ultimatum. As for Sire of Stagnation: That card is just so much fun to play. Obviously it dies to everything, but drawing up to 4 cards per turn feels soooo goooooood
I think if you want to go this route you need someway to power out your delve spells quicker. Thought Scour is an obvious choice but if you want to select cards than Faithless Looting is the alternative. Either way I would consider dropping the Cryptics in favor for more discard spells or Kolaghan's Command. You are trying to be a draw-go style control but your creatures favor a more tap-out style.
I'm also not a huge fan of Spell Snare right now. It is great against some of the aggro decks but it isn't too great against the Eldrazi and with them being the dominating deck I would rather prioritize combating them.
So this has been an adventure for me to try, and when I say that I mean... WHEW! It felt soooo good playing this on FNM and being able to go 3-1 with it and even the days before that going 4-0! This deck has just done such a fantastic job of keeping the heat up and the pace even faster. Now take what yall may, but I want some insight on what you guys think about how this works well and doesn't seem to work. But to me, it puts in everything it has!
23 Lands! Pretty low count but you also run a large amount of draw spells so it probably works. I have debated trying out Chandra, Flamecaller. She looks like she can just win the game if left alone. She can kill your opponent, draw a new hand, or even board wipe.
I don't know if I like Pia and Kiran Nalaar right now. Sure they are great against the small aggro decks or the go-wide decks and in conjunction with Kolaghan's Command you get to basically run multiple copies of them. It is the red Lingering Souls! My only concern is that with Eldrazi running rampant they only really fear your thopters and that can be answered easily in the UW or UR list. I think we do very well against the other aggro decks so devoting a slot to Ma and Pa seems like overkill.
Indeed when i play control i just love the "Draw, go, counter your stuff, kill your stuff, eventually drop my threat and beat you" kind of style.
On a sidenote i do not want to take this deck to any major tournament. THis is just meant as a sidedeck for FNM where i know the meta. Spellsnare is still pretty good here.
What would you recommend to get further on the draw go side? More counterspells/sweepers? I was thinking about dropping to 1 Angler and put in a Languish for it.
Indeed when i play control i just love the "Draw, go, counter your stuff, kill your stuff, eventually drop my threat and beat you" kind of style.
On a sidenote i do not want to take this deck to any major tournament. THis is just meant as a sidedeck for FNM where i know the meta. Spellsnare is still pretty good here.
What would you recommend to get further on the draw go side? More counterspells/sweepers? I was thinking about dropping to 1 Angler and put in a Languish for it.
I usually think about FNM before any real big time event. I have 2 Eldrazi players at my LGS I basically have a side Side Board for when I play local or travel for tournaments.
Draw-go favors a lot of 2 for 1 so cards like Electrolyze, Remand and Cryptic Command go a long way. You could pair your Sire of Stagnation with Ghost Quarter to really get some good value. Even Shadow of Doubt is great with Ghost Quarters and cause it replaces itself you can pretty much Sinkhole your opponent and draw a new card to threaten with.
Languish is great with your big body threats. Any creature you play that can survive the wrath pairs well with it. Have you considered Tombstalker?
I have 1 RB Eldrazi deck in my meta it's one of the "midrange" variants using Wasteland Stranger and the likes. Nothing too explosive.
I actually did not think about the Sire of Stagnation/Ghost Quarter thing. Thouth i am not sure if Ghost Quarter is really that good considering that we put ourselves at land disadvantage? Tec Edge atleast trades 1 for 1, that's why i run it. (Also GQ Effect is a MAY effect so eh...)
About Tombstalker: I feel like it does too little. Tasigur atleast hands you cards back and stands in the way as a blocker, generating more long-term value. There's no need to rush the kill with super evasive threats, right?
I will see if i add Rune Snag and/or Think Twice to my list. Hell, if i want to go full graveyard i could run 4x Rune Snag, 4x Accumulated Knowledge and 4x Thought Scour. But that doesn't seem so good considering the GY hate in Modern.
I have 1 RB Eldrazi deck in my meta it's one of the "midrange" variants using Wasteland Stranger and the likes. Nothing too explosive.
I actually did not think about the Sire of Stagnation/Ghost Quarter thing. Thouth i am not sure if Ghost Quarter is really that good considering that we put ourselves at land disadvantage? Tec Edge atleast trades 1 for 1, that's why i run it. (Also GQ Effect is a MAY effect so eh...)
About Tombstalker: I feel like it does too little. Tasigur atleast hands you cards back and stands in the way as a blocker, generating more long-term value. There's no need to rush the kill with super evasive threats, right?
I will see if i add Rune Snag and/or Think Twice to my list. Hell, if i want to go full graveyard i could run 4x Rune Snag, 4x Accumulated Knowledge and 4x Thought Scour. But that doesn't seem so good considering the GY hate in Modern.
I mean I would be pretty glad if they didn't take the land from Ghost Quarter. Puts them down a land and makes our Mana Leaks better. You get a win-win situation. Tombstalker was just a suggestion. With so many decks looking to win by attacking from the ground you can just fly over them and I saw you are running 4 Delve creatures.
I wouldn't really worry too much about graveyard hate. The deck naturally attracts people to bring in graveyard hate so I would just worry about stopping it from happening.
Also Accumulated Knowledge isn't modern legal sadly.
PnK have done some great work in conjunction with Chandra to be able to go wide enough and put pressure on the board while trying to stabilize it. Everything seems to work out, and honestly idk what I would run besides them. Maybe another snap or tasigur would be good enough. I just like the option to be able to handle things in a wide variety of efforts. So that being said, I have been doing really well with it recently and haven't being really losing after side boarding out some cards. I like to go from control to a midrange plan which is usually how it goes.
My thoughts about playing with Chandra have been amazing, as soon as I slam this card down. My opponent just goes "Welp, that's a card." and usually I can keep it out for 2 turns which is enough to either board or get damage in. I have yet to try out the 0 ability only because my hands haven't been junk enough to use it and even with the draw spells I have, I feel there's no reason to do that. She has been wonderful though in all aspects that I assumed she would be.
The land basis, well.... I love it actually and it's never any trouble. I always hit them with the draw spells, I'm even confident enough to keep two lands and still be able to win in matches. It gets kinda crazy and awesome at the same time being able to do everything I want with a small land basis for a control deck that can hit hard late game and keep up early with all the removal and two for ones depending on what the match up is. I agree that it looks ridiculous in theory but works out every time! Never have to mull to five really either, always at seven or six.
Pyroclasm was really good tonight; Ashiok rocked as well. I'm missing foil damnation and snaps so that is why the decklist is odd. Counterflux will get cut.
Private Mod Note
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Level 1 Judge
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU "Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR "The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
How did the 4 MD Sweeper work for you? It seems like your list is very light in actual "bombs" and you win by resolving both ultimatums and burning your opponen? Also how did Devastation Tide perform for you? I am somewhat hesitant to play miracle cards when there is no way to get them back into the deck like in legacy. Is it a dead draw? Couldn't you almost run Cyclonic Rift over it as it costs 1 Mana more (Overload obviously) but spares your permanents? How was Mogis? He seems somewhat slow. Against what decks did you board him in?
Devastation Tide is there for all the pillow fort and prison decks. I've considered Cyclonic Rift and will try it when foils arrive.
Mogis comes in vs other control decks and midrange.
I burn people out and beat them to death with lands.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Level 1 Judge
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU "Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR "The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
Why do people play Devour Flesh over Geth's Verdict? In my testing so far i never had trouble paying the BB costs and it makes it easier for us to burn our opponent out. Obviously Tribute to Hunger is a whole different story as it has an upside for us.
its easier on decks that cant cover bb early, there are a few games where having bb is a bit hard but usually i have it as well. i personally like geths verdict better, however bb usually means 2 blue lands are tapped as well in a lot of lists.
I think i will stick to Geth's Verdict for now until i get reason not to run it.
Also: What cards do you guys play to get legit card advantage? I am not talking cantrip here but advantage! Painful Truths with converge 3, Compulsive Research, that sort of thing.
I found myself running dry after a couple spells due to Landdrop + Spell each turn consumes your hand quickly. I thought about running 1 or 2 Amass the Components as this allows us to filter our hand without discarding a Grave Titan for example. With all the fetchlands we run the bottom of the library is also not a big deal imo.
i run a teachings list personally so i don't know about others' form of card advantage but i usually end up playing as a draw-land-go deck and it becomes pretty reactive for me. for tap out type control decks that is not a good thing to be doing for lil bolas's deck list above the only card there that doesn't cantrip is cruel ultimatum. in mine it would probably be cruels and keranos, and 2 copies of aot jace. i am referring to the main deck btw not the side board.
What other forms of raw advantage do you run? i used to use a blue suns' zenith but i took it out after awhile i may put it back in soon. i find myself beginning to run out of a hand.
UUU Merfolk UUU "Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR "The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
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2 Watery Grave
2 Steam Vents
1 Blood Crypt
1 Sunken Ruins
2 Sulfur Falls
2 Ghost Quarter
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
Creature Spells (8)
2 Augur of Bolas
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Grave Titan
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 Serum Visions
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Think Twice
2 Mana Leak
1 Shadow of Doubt
3 Terminate
2 Izzet Charm
1 Countersquall
1 Forbidden Alchemy
2 Kolaghan's Command
3 Cryptic Command
1 Damnation
1 Languish
1 Cruel Ultimatum
Planeswalkers (2)
1 Jace Beleren
1 Chandra, Flamecaller
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Spellskite
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Olivia Voldaren
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Batterskull
1 Crypt Incursion
1 Consume the Meek
1 Shattering Spree
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Crumble to Dust
1 Counterflux
2 Slaughter Games
So this has been an adventure for me to try, and when I say that I mean... WHEW! It felt soooo good playing this on FNM and being able to go 3-1 with it and even the days before that going 4-0! This deck has just done such a fantastic job of keeping the heat up and the pace even faster. Now take what yall may, but I want some insight on what you guys think about how this works well and doesn't seem to work. But to me, it puts in everything it has!
Now what i wonder is: All your lists are really really heavy on control. Would it be worth to make the list a bit more Midrange with Gurmag Anglers and Tasigurs as threats along the Cruel Ultimatum? For reference my current list looks like this:
2 Steam Vents
1 Blood Crypt
1 Watery Grave
3 Island
3 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Drowned Catacomb
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Desolate Lighthouse
2 Wandering Fumarole
2 Tasigur, the golden Fang
2 Gurmag Angler
1 Sire of Stagnation
4 Snapcaster Mage
Instants/Sorceries
1 Cruel Ultimatum
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
3 Mana Leak
2 Cryptic Command
2 Remand
1 Negate
2 Terminate
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Spell Snare
1 Painful Truths
1 Ob Nixilis, Reignited
Still not sure about the Sideboard to be honest. Also i really want to run a 2nd Cruel Ultimatum. As for Sire of Stagnation: That card is just so much fun to play. Obviously it dies to everything, but drawing up to 4 cards per turn feels soooo goooooood
BRGJundGRB
GCTronCG
WBRMardu PyromancerRBW
Legacy:
GElvesG
Radiant Flames has done be some good in the past in conjunction with Kalitas and it saves my own guys however after facing multiple Voices against the Company deck I think I still need Anger even if it is harder on the mana. With the current plan Radiant might as well be a turn 5 plan which is something I cannot afford against that combo deck.
As for Rune Snag I have debated it. I like that it is useful late game but running the full Snaps make it worse when you flashback them too often. I may test it.
UBx Tezzeret: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/18-06-17-ub-tezzeret/
I think if you want to go this route you need someway to power out your delve spells quicker. Thought Scour is an obvious choice but if you want to select cards than Faithless Looting is the alternative. Either way I would consider dropping the Cryptics in favor for more discard spells or Kolaghan's Command. You are trying to be a draw-go style control but your creatures favor a more tap-out style.
I'm also not a huge fan of Spell Snare right now. It is great against some of the aggro decks but it isn't too great against the Eldrazi and with them being the dominating deck I would rather prioritize combating them.
UBx Tezzeret: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/18-06-17-ub-tezzeret/
23 Lands! Pretty low count but you also run a large amount of draw spells so it probably works. I have debated trying out Chandra, Flamecaller. She looks like she can just win the game if left alone. She can kill your opponent, draw a new hand, or even board wipe.
I don't know if I like Pia and Kiran Nalaar right now. Sure they are great against the small aggro decks or the go-wide decks and in conjunction with Kolaghan's Command you get to basically run multiple copies of them. It is the red Lingering Souls! My only concern is that with Eldrazi running rampant they only really fear your thopters and that can be answered easily in the UW or UR list. I think we do very well against the other aggro decks so devoting a slot to Ma and Pa seems like overkill.
UBx Tezzeret: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/18-06-17-ub-tezzeret/
Venser, Shaper Savant
Boomerang and Remand on a stick. Can be reused with Kolaghan's Command and pairs well with discard spells. Can be used to disrupt Thought-Knot Seer and Reality Smasher
Night of Souls' Betrayal
Format filled with aggro decks and go-wide decks. X/1 creatures die while x/4 creatures now die to Bolt. Sadly makes Snapcaster Mage a noncreature spell and Wandering Fumarole a blocker.
Rune Snag (props to Lil Bolas)
The alternative to Mana Leak. 1st cast worse, 2nd cast better, 3rd and 4th might as well be Counterspell. Gets worse with Snap. Could always convert to 4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy and 2 Snaps.
Chandra, Flamecaller (props to CableTV)
Swiss army knife planeswalker. Red Elspeth, Sun's Champion?
UBx Tezzeret: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/18-06-17-ub-tezzeret/
On a sidenote i do not want to take this deck to any major tournament. THis is just meant as a sidedeck for FNM where i know the meta. Spellsnare is still pretty good here.
What would you recommend to get further on the draw go side? More counterspells/sweepers? I was thinking about dropping to 1 Angler and put in a Languish for it.
BRGJundGRB
GCTronCG
WBRMardu PyromancerRBW
Legacy:
GElvesG
I usually think about FNM before any real big time event. I have 2 Eldrazi players at my LGS I basically have a side Side Board for when I play local or travel for tournaments.
Draw-go favors a lot of 2 for 1 so cards like Electrolyze, Remand and Cryptic Command go a long way. You could pair your Sire of Stagnation with Ghost Quarter to really get some good value. Even Shadow of Doubt is great with Ghost Quarters and cause it replaces itself you can pretty much Sinkhole your opponent and draw a new card to threaten with.
Languish is great with your big body threats. Any creature you play that can survive the wrath pairs well with it. Have you considered Tombstalker?
UBx Tezzeret: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/18-06-17-ub-tezzeret/
I actually did not think about the Sire of Stagnation/Ghost Quarter thing. Thouth i am not sure if Ghost Quarter is really that good considering that we put ourselves at land disadvantage? Tec Edge atleast trades 1 for 1, that's why i run it. (Also GQ Effect is a MAY effect so eh...)
About Tombstalker: I feel like it does too little. Tasigur atleast hands you cards back and stands in the way as a blocker, generating more long-term value. There's no need to rush the kill with super evasive threats, right?
I will see if i add Rune Snag and/or Think Twice to my list. Hell, if i want to go full graveyard i could run 4x Rune Snag, 4x Accumulated Knowledge and 4x Thought Scour. But that doesn't seem so good considering the GY hate in Modern.
BRGJundGRB
GCTronCG
WBRMardu PyromancerRBW
Legacy:
GElvesG
I mean I would be pretty glad if they didn't take the land from Ghost Quarter. Puts them down a land and makes our Mana Leaks better. You get a win-win situation. Tombstalker was just a suggestion. With so many decks looking to win by attacking from the ground you can just fly over them and I saw you are running 4 Delve creatures.
I wouldn't really worry too much about graveyard hate. The deck naturally attracts people to bring in graveyard hate so I would just worry about stopping it from happening.
Also Accumulated Knowledge isn't modern legal sadly.
UBx Tezzeret: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/18-06-17-ub-tezzeret/
Good point with the GQ. I will adapt my list a bit and post it again in a few days! Thanks for the feedback!
BRGJundGRB
GCTronCG
WBRMardu PyromancerRBW
Legacy:
GElvesG
My thoughts about playing with Chandra have been amazing, as soon as I slam this card down. My opponent just goes "Welp, that's a card." and usually I can keep it out for 2 turns which is enough to either board or get damage in. I have yet to try out the 0 ability only because my hands haven't been junk enough to use it and even with the draw spells I have, I feel there's no reason to do that. She has been wonderful though in all aspects that I assumed she would be.
The land basis, well.... I love it actually and it's never any trouble. I always hit them with the draw spells, I'm even confident enough to keep two lands and still be able to win in matches. It gets kinda crazy and awesome at the same time being able to do everything I want with a small land basis for a control deck that can hit hard late game and keep up early with all the removal and two for ones depending on what the match up is. I agree that it looks ridiculous in theory but works out every time! Never have to mull to five really either, always at seven or six.
1 Blood Crypt
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Cascade Bluffs
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Island
1 Mountain
3 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Smoldering Marsh
2 Steam Vents
1 Sunken Hollow
1 Sunken Ruins
2 Swamp
2 Wandering Fumarole
1 Watery Grave
2 Cryptic Command
2 Electrolyze
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mana Leak
3 Spell Snare
4 Terminate
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Cruel Ultimatum
2 Pyroclasm
2 Cruel Edict
4 Serum Visions
Creatures
2 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1 Snapcaster Mage
2 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
2 Counterflux
2 Devastation Tide
2 Dispel
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Mogis, God of Slaughter
2 Negate
1 Sire of Stangnation
2 Vandalblast
Pyroclasm was really good tonight; Ashiok rocked as well. I'm missing foil damnation and snaps so that is why the decklist is odd. Counterflux will get cut.
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU
"Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR
"The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
How did the 4 MD Sweeper work for you? It seems like your list is very light in actual "bombs" and you win by resolving both ultimatums and burning your opponen? Also how did Devastation Tide perform for you? I am somewhat hesitant to play miracle cards when there is no way to get them back into the deck like in legacy. Is it a dead draw? Couldn't you almost run Cyclonic Rift over it as it costs 1 Mana more (Overload obviously) but spares your permanents? How was Mogis? He seems somewhat slow. Against what decks did you board him in?
BRGJundGRB
GCTronCG
WBRMardu PyromancerRBW
Legacy:
GElvesG
Mogis comes in vs other control decks and midrange.
I burn people out and beat them to death with lands.
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU
"Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR
"The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
Why do people play Devour Flesh over Geth's Verdict? In my testing so far i never had trouble paying the BB costs and it makes it easier for us to burn our opponent out. Obviously Tribute to Hunger is a whole different story as it has an upside for us.
BRGJundGRB
GCTronCG
WBRMardu PyromancerRBW
Legacy:
GElvesG
Also: What cards do you guys play to get legit card advantage? I am not talking cantrip here but advantage! Painful Truths with converge 3, Compulsive Research, that sort of thing.
I found myself running dry after a couple spells due to Landdrop + Spell each turn consumes your hand quickly. I thought about running 1 or 2 Amass the Components as this allows us to filter our hand without discarding a Grave Titan for example. With all the fetchlands we run the bottom of the library is also not a big deal imo.
BRGJundGRB
GCTronCG
WBRMardu PyromancerRBW
Legacy:
GElvesG
What other forms of raw advantage do you run? i used to use a blue suns' zenith but i took it out after awhile i may put it back in soon. i find myself beginning to run out of a hand.
Critique the list my cruel brothers and sisters
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU
"Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR
"The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas