I really question the "testing" that a lot of people do on cockatrice, in all threads, not just this one. It's been my experience that on cockatrice, 9/10 players aren't worth the time investment for testing purposes--opponents lack the tight play and good mulligan decisions of a tournament-caliber (GP day 2) player. I also see a ton of severely non-optimized lists all over the place on cockatrice.
In your collective experience, does cockatrice yield poor testing for you all, or am I being overly high in my expectations? I mostly play at a shop where I'm near the fewest GP day 2's in the room (only two myself, though granted I'm more likely to judge), but maybe this is unrealistic to expect that level of play from the general online populace at large?
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Yes, I am a local area mod. WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE
Primary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
Yeah I would say I kind of agree amalek. Although I guess since Magic online (probably better for testing) can cost quite a bit to maintain a collection on people are limited to what they can get. I think that as long as people take cocka with a "grain of salt" then it can be alright for testing.
I really question the "testing" that a lot of people do on cockatrice, in all threads, not just this one. It's been my experience that on cockatrice, 9/10 players aren't worth the time investment for testing purposes--opponents lack the tight play and good mulligan decisions of a tournament-caliber (GP day 2) player. I also see a ton of severely non-optimized lists all over the place on cockatrice.
In your collective experience, does cockatrice yield poor testing for you all, or am I being overly high in my expectations? I mostly play at a shop where I'm near the fewest GP day 2's in the room (only two myself, though granted I'm more likely to judge), but maybe this is unrealistic to expect that level of play from the general online populace at large?
It is why I usually kick a lot of people out of the game until you found some decent ones. Turn one hedron crab = kick. I even came to battle ashtonkutcher a couple of times. My only losses against burn decks (playing) are actually on cockatrice, not in GPT, PPTQ (X-)finals for example. Day 2's ha , I never to lost the couple of Dutch GP top8'ers I ever met in a game in tournaments here yet . Cockatrice is decent, though you have to be careful.
Modern has no good general counterspell, so I've settled on using Countersquall.
I suggest that everyone who needs Cryptic Command, Fulminator Mage and Vendilion Clique get those cards before the June 11th-13th weekend. There is a Modern GP hosted by Star City Games and I expect prices to increase significantly.
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Level 1 Judge
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU "Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR "The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
I really question the "testing" that a lot of people do on cockatrice, in all threads, not just this one. It's been my experience that on cockatrice, 9/10 players aren't worth the time investment for testing purposes--opponents lack the tight play and good mulligan decisions of a tournament-caliber (GP day 2) player. I also see a ton of severely non-optimized lists all over the place on cockatrice.
In your collective experience, does cockatrice yield poor testing for you all, or am I being overly high in my expectations? I mostly play at a shop where I'm near the fewest GP day 2's in the room (only two myself, though granted I'm more likely to judge), but maybe this is unrealistic to expect that level of play from the general online populace at large?
youguys know of the program X-Mage right?It seems really nice and it even keeps track of your triggers in a similar way to Magic online. it seems to be a little better if you wanna test online. I usually only test at my shops but it is worth looking into.
I suggest that everyone who needs Cryptic Command, Fulminator Mage and Vendilion Clique get those cards before the June 11th-13th weekend. There is a Modern GP hosted by Star City Games and I expect prices to increase significantly.
Agreed; add Snapcaster to that list; I suspect Snapcaster will go up in Price probably after this GP as well.
youguys know of the program X-Mage right?It seems really nice and it even keeps track of your triggers in a similar way to Magic online. it seems to be a little better if you wanna test online. I usually only test at my shops but it is worth looking into.
I don't touch Cockatrice for Testing; maybe I'm a newb... probably.
I trust my live Testing at the Shop or in Top Gauntlets.
If I ever load up Cockatrice; it's to test VS Known people; people I know not VS anyone Random.
XMage is actually pretty solid though too; but it's the same thing; if it's pre-planned set up testing yes; Randoms, no.
Countersqual seems very narrow. I mean how often is a negate for u/b good? I do think there is a case where main deck negate is probably good, but negate for u/b because it shocks seems ultra narrow. I think if Undermine that would be worth considering as a 1 of but otherwise i am not so sure.
Another day of testing.
Abzan midrange is a good deck but We have all necessary to beat it.
Today i destroyed infect 2-1 2-0 2-1.
I won 2-0 against a grixis delver too.
And lost 2-0 against zoo idk how
I want to remind u all to test KeranoBoy and Monastery Siege in ur Main deck.
Props to Mine 3 iok very usefully .
Slops to Jace's Ingenuity I never played it in Last 10 matches
Nice! With Keranos in the main; are you casting it Turn 5 if you have it? Or later? Just curious...
Oppo dependant . For example against twin is really hard to cast it in ur 5 turn
Makes sense; and that'll be my challenge being new to the Current Modern Meta Game again; it's been a good while since I last played Modern.... Outta be fun and yet so depressing having to figure out those situations.
Thanks for the insight!
EDIT:
So this is what I'm taking to my first Modern even in about a year or 2 tonight...
I know alot of the card choices about my deck is heavily debated and alot don't like.
I'm going for a more Instant Speed control style while being less Tap Out.
Anticipate being one of the cards I myself am not sure about; but want to try it...
Wrecking Ball out of the side is planned to be Sowing Salt; however I don't have any Sowing Salt's at the moment, so I opted for a versatile Land Destruction OR Creature Kill Card at Instant Speed that works as well. Bottom line; I wanted 3 ways to Destroy Lands... Fulminators get returned by Kolaghan's Commands and Cruels; while the Instant Wrecking Ball can be flashbacked by Snapcaster. I think it's Flexible enough...
Out of the side also I'm opting for Volcanic Fallout; most everyone seems good with going with Anger of the Gods; but I've seen alot of the aggro Zoo decks and alot of the creatures are 2 Toughness or lower. Sure there are some that are 3 or more... But because I'm less of a Tap Out deck and a bit more Controlly; I wanted the Instant Speed option of sweep; Lightning Bolts and Terminates clean up the rest.
Crypt Incursion is an odd ball Sideboard option; and honestly it probably really should be Rakdos Charm; but as unbelievable as it might be; I've gone to 3 diff shops in my area and NO ONE has a Rakdos Charm. LOL But on the bright side; I actually like what Crypt Incursion might be able to do. VS alot of the Hybrid Zoo Burn decks; there's still plenty of creatures. VS any Reanimation or Kolaghan's Command creature decks; there's plenty to remove. Kolaghan's Command is getting alot of PUB in Modern, and I suspect that there'll be alot of ways to abuse creatures out of the GY. This used to be a fantastic card back in the day to gain chunks of life... 9 to 12 or more. Sometimes that's all CRUEL Control needs to buy us that additional turn to cast Cruel. That's the thought process with this choice. And you can easily flash it back with Snapcaster; BONUS.
Beyond that; I feel I've explained the rest of the choices; whether we agreed on them or not...
I still really really hate rakdos charm as a card. I much prefer relic. If you play mystical teachings I have to say rakdos charm is better, but outside of that I am not a fan. With all the love Tasigur, the golden fang is getting I'm very surprised people haven't started to adopt relic of progenitus they have some anti synergies but they also have some Very powerful synergies since you can target yourself with the relic to get bad/dead cards out of the yard making it much more likely to get a good card every turn from tasigur. Really think y'all should try more relics.
Sunken ruins seemed unnecessary now tbh. If you just run 3 or so checklands, like sulfur falls or drowned catacomb instead you can still have a decent amount of resiliency to cards like choke and boil while also smoothing out your mana to cast things like terminate. If you have ever had a terminate in hand and a sunken ruins and steam vents in play you will know what I mean, it is really frustrating. Sure it helps to cast damnation, cruel, and cryptic command but imo people used to play sunken ruins over checklands because we didn't have that great of a manabase to cast cruel ultimatum. Like we used to play 4 Scalding tarn and 3 misty rainforest. The mana was worse and so we needed sunken ruins to pull it all together. Now that isn't true anymore. Our manabase is much better and with 7-8 on color fetchlands we can reliably cast cruel ultimatum with almost no problems (unless something is really out of whack with your manabase).
Finally I had an idea that since you all seem to want to test with people who aren't random people on cockatrice, Why not test with each other? I assume you all use the woogerworks server and can just add each other on there. I would be willing to play some test matches myself if anyone wants to get some good testing in. What do you all think about this.
If u have 2 anger of the gods plz man put those in and hard ur Volcanic fallout !!!
LOL SPOT ON!!!
No it's funny; like I said I haven't played Modern in a long time...
The last time I played Modern; it was called EXTENDED and Faeries was the top deck and you wanted Fallouts. HAHA
So prior to me going; I posted on the Forums and sent GrixisGuru a message privately.
He gave me the heads up about Fallout and I happen to read it prior to the event... Just on the fact that Anger removes Finks and Voice from the GAME and they don't trigger; that's all the reason you need right there.
I was sold of course and made the change before the EVENT... GrixisGuru saved me!!! HAHA Toooooooo funny!
As far as the Event goes; I knew there'd be some growing pains... So I wasn't expecting much... there's alot of challenges here.
1.) Haven't played Modern in forever... SO I'm getting used to My Cards again; getting used to all the cards my opponent has... Alot of the cards I used to see and play a long time ago when they were STD legal; but man... you forget those cards when you don't see them for a long time.
2.) Didn't know what to expect in general...
3.) My list was a bit more Control-ish; and with Control Grixis decks; you do need to have alot of knowledge on the Metagame and the Format you're playing; to which I had NONE. Just all theorizing... With that; honestly Grixis Tap Out is probably the better way to go regardless... IDK
So with that being said; the day didn't go so hot... however; minus the play mistakes from forgetting what certain cards do; or honestly never seeing other cards ever before; to being stressed playing alot of my cards for the first time and just not really focused on the game or board state... I have to say I was greatly encouraged with the deck and had a great time.
ROUND 1 VS Abzan Coco
Loss 1-2
Game 1: I kept a 1 Lander... DAH! Never keep a 1 Lander; apparently the same is true in Modern even if you have a few draw spells and lightning bolts and a good chunk of your hand is playable on 1 land and even better if you draw the 2nd... That cost me; funny thing is; I still ALMOST craweled back into the game; pushed it to the point where I still ended up in CRUEL range even after missing my 2nd land for about 3 or 4 turns. That's how good my opening hand turned out to be matched with his. Lightning Bolts; Thought Scours; still managed to stick a Tasigur. It was nutty hand...
Game 2: I resolve 3 CRUELs and controlled the game... Anger of the Gods! (Thanks GrixisGuru) And obviously our deck shines VS those 2 Toughness aggro decks... Lightning Bolts; Terminates for Goyf; etc.. etc.. 3 CRUELS and GG.
Game 3: He gets off a great aggro board; I pick off the bigs here and there; I'm easily within CRUEL range; but see no Cruel or Anger; and easily could of stablized; but things just didn't draw well.
ROUND 2 VS Atarka Naya Burn
Loss 0-2
Game 1 and 2; not even worth discussing... I hung in there like a champ; Game 1 I did manage to get within CRUEL range and he was in TOP DECK mode; I thought I had the Game Locked up; but he top decked great over 3 turns and I top decked lands and had no way to dig out Cruels or something to save me... He finishes game 1 on a Atarka's Command + Lightning Bolt; I Snare the Command and take the Bolt for lethal...
Game 2 it wasn't even close... Goblin Guides; tons of Burn; turns out Spellskite actually doesn't save me VS alot of their Burn spells???? I thought that was one of the key matches for Spellskite? Yea just total blow out... Will have to re-tool for sure.
ROUND 3 VS Boros Aggro/Burn
Win 2-0
Game 1 and 2 total ANNIHILATION for me... It was a budget deck; missing alot of the key Burn spells and Creatures probably too. But I'll say this; Budget or not; if my deck sucked; you still lose; but my deck did everything it was designed to do. Easily dispatched the creatures; saved Counters for the Burn and CRUEL CRUEL CRUEL.
Game 2 I cast CRUEL; I draw Bolas off the Cruel. So then I play Bolas the next turn... The few turns after that I see nothing but just kill off any creature he plays while destroying a few of his lands... The final turn I top deck Snapcaster. So I Ultimate Bolas; Cast Snapcaster target CRUEL and CRUEL in the same turn for GG. lol
So although I didn't do too hot; I made some mistakes in the 1st Round; got totally annihilated by Atarka Naya Burn in the 2nd Round; and annihilated my last round... Cast CRUEL quite of few times; ended games with Bolas...
I had a hell of a great time!
After the event; I played the Shop Keepers Reanimation Deck; Turn 1 he gets Blood Moon in the first game; 2nd game he gets Turn 2 Emrakul... GG 0-2
smh
I've got a few ideas for some adjustments; but all in all had I known more about the format; practiced more; I think things would have been better... Once I cast the first CRUEL of the night; I got into the zone and it felt great!!! So I saw a ton of good things about the deck; while some other things that were MEH.
I still really really hate rakdos charm as a card. I much prefer relic. If you play mystical teachings I have to say rakdos charm is better, but outside of that I am not a fan. With all the love Tasigur, the golden fang is getting I'm very surprised people haven't started to adopt relic of progenitus they have some anti synergies but they also have some Very powerful synergies since you can target yourself with the relic to get bad/dead cards out of the yard making it much more likely to get a good card every turn from tasigur. Really think y'all should try more relics.
Sunken ruins seemed unnecessary now tbh. If you just run 3 or so checklands, like sulfur falls or drowned catacomb instead you can still have a decent amount of resiliency to cards like choke and boil while also smoothing out your mana to cast things like terminate. If you have ever had a terminate in hand and a sunken ruins and steam vents in play you will know what I mean, it is really frustrating. Sure it helps to cast damnation, cruel, and cryptic command but imo people used to play sunken ruins over checklands because we didn't have that great of a manabase to cast cruel ultimatum. Like we used to play 4 Scalding tarn and 3 misty rainforest. The mana was worse and so we needed sunken ruins to pull it all together. Now that isn't true anymore. Our manabase is much better and with 7-8 on color fetchlands we can reliably cast cruel ultimatum with almost no problems (unless something is really out of whack with your manabase).
I agree on both of these points.
Relic of Progenitus - This card actually does seem extremely effective with Tasigur, the Golden fang. My only concern with this is that I dunno that I could warrant putting this in the mainboard as a hate card because it is essentially a Mulligan against most decks and I'm not sure the selection is so overwhelmingly better that I would want it there. I thinkif this is a saidebaord card I'm not sure how much better slash worse it is in matches where Rakdos charm has versatility. I would say that the against Living end it is essentially the same card, but against a deck like Twin or Affinity the loss of this card I feel is much to great. I mean ometimes against an unsuspecting Twin plyer we can kill them with the damage off the charm or at minimum we can knock out their graveyard to avoid a snapcaster bolt you plan.
Game 3 - Few counters tossed off and on... Sadly, Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir just shut me down...
Can I also say I personally hate this deck... lol
Round 2 - Podless Pod - 1-0-1:
Game 1 - Super grindy, countered collected company, damnationed twice (snapcastered it back), eventually go myself the win than to Cruel Ultimatum.
Game 2 - Game goes to time, due to opponent slow playing, not knowing cards, not playing properly... Wasn't pleased.
Round 3 - Fish - 2-1:
Game 1 - Kept a slightly skechy hand, got punished by merfolk giving me hugs and pulling me underwater for too long...
Game 2 - Bolts, Snapcasters, and Engineered Explosives saved me (was planning EE on 1, but opp brought in Chalice of the Void on 2 so that had to go...)
Game 3 - Bolts, Anger of the Gods, and Kolaghan's Command were the allstars, opp couldn't keep dudes out, and scooped to a single Ultimatum
Game 2 - Anger of the Gods x2, Lightning Bolts, and Terminates kept the field open until I cast Batterskull.
Round 5 - Esper Control - 2-0
Game 1 - Opponent got mana screwed, got his anticipate countered early which missed him a land drop for 3 turns, Keranos just sealed the deal.
Game 2 - Bit of a grindier game, but Batterskull, 2 snapcasters and Keranos just killed him.
Overall, went 3-1-1 so no complaints for the first 'run' with he deck, I have a modern fnm tonight, so I'll be trying to make it in again to play / post some more results. Sorry I'm not overly detailed, but I have limited time for notes.
Great job. Maybe add another Slaughter Games to take out decks like Ad Nauseam
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Level 1 Judge
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU "Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR "The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
Overall, went 3-1-1 so no complaints for the first 'run' with he deck, I have a modern fnm tonight, so I'll be trying to make it in again to play / post some more results. Sorry I'm not overly detailed, but I have limited time for notes.
So your deck has me thinking... but I need to understand a few things.
QUESTION 1: Tasigur, the Golden Fang? Don't like it? Don't have it? Don't think it's needed? Not having him interests me; perhaps I'm going about my Control list all wrong... Tasigur seems hella spicy; but at the same time it requires a package to be good... The Gurmag; the Thought Scours; the Serum Visions; among other things... if I pull Tasigur; I don't feel I need Gurmag; Thought Scour can go; and just alot of things get freed up. So yes; No Tasigur?
QUESTION 2: Also; the fact that you're running so few creatures; it really makes the Damnation option really really good and loads better!!!
I would almost argue the it could be worth while to also mainboard Anger of the Gods too?
QUESTION 3: I've been testing Anticipate in my build; and honestly I don't like it; but that's because of the Tasigur/Gurmag/ThoughtScour package... just doesn't fit. But I think in your list; it just looks FANTASTIC! You don't have that whole package; thus you can run more cantrips to get you through the earlier turns; thus Anticipate is there to really dig out specific Answers or Cruels. FANTASTIC!!! Your list seems to really make Anticipate great would you agree??
As far as Control Shells go; I think you've done a fantastic job and have really got me re-thinking my list!!
I think I'm having an issue with being caught between both trying to be Control but also being Tap Out.
And to be fair to myself; when I first designed my list; I didn't use the Forums; I went to the SCG: Open Modern event listings.
Took the past 10 or so Events; listed every Grixis Deck; compared them... Now granted; most of those lists were Twin/Blood Moon Combo/Delver; but the shells were all the same; and they were all successful.
So I took that Shell; changed all the win conditions; added more land... and that's where I started.
The Tasigurs and Gurmag have been fantastic; but perhaps they're holding me back?
Great job. Maybe add another Slaughter Games to take out decks like Ad Nauseam
Honestly, I may have to, I just dislike having such a 'single-handed' card take up too many slots. Even though there's a fair amount of combo in my meta, Ad Naus is the only one that I've struggled vs, but it may also be I've yet to play a lot of games vs with control, I've normally just out-raced with my version of Urza-Eggs, but that's another story...
So your deck has me thinking... but I need to understand a few things.
QUESTION 1: Tasigur, the Golden Fang? Don't like it? Don't have it? Don't think it's needed? Not having him interests me; perhaps I'm going about my Control list all wrong... Tasigur seems hella spicy; but at the same time it requires a package to be good... The Gurmag; the Thought Scours; the Serum Visions; among other things... if I pull Tasigur; I don't feel I need Gurmag; Thought Scour can go; and just alot of things get freed up. So yes; No Tasigur?
QUESTION 2: Also; the fact that you're running so few creatures; it really makes the Damnation option really really good and loads better!!!
I would almost argue the it could be worth while to also mainboard Anger of the Gods too?
QUESTION 3: I've been testing Anticipate in my build; and honestly I don't like it; but that's because of the Tasigur/Gurmag/ThoughtScour package... just doesn't fit. But I think in your list; it just looks FANTASTIC! You don't have that whole package; thus you can run more cantrips to get you through the earlier turns; thus Anticipate is there to really dig out specific Answers or Cruels. FANTASTIC!!! Your list seems to really make Anticipate great would you agree??
Ok, now this is in no away meant to be insulting, or what not about your version of Cruel
Q1 - Tasigur's a great card... in a midrange/Delve deck. I feel for my version of control, spending the time to play Tassy, and use the ability, theres so many bad options I get brought back to my hand, that I can not find it worthwhile. Now in the lists I've seen people here running him, sure he's likely great, but I don't like him in a control shell.
Q2 - After tonight, depending on the number of 'creature' decks around, I may end up using my 'test slot' for Anger, I just didn't main one, because I don't want too many board wipes due to control/combo decks just not caring about them, hence my 1 boardwipe main, 2 in the board.
Q3 - Anticipate is such a grea card in my list, I've found, because once you have an idea (or straight out know) what you're opponents on, turn 2 you can start digging for all the right answers! But if I were on the Tasigur plan, I'm all about cutting the anicipates for a better shell.
And also I want to know vs who u side ur 3 KolaCommand?
ty and gg !
Ok, so I'll start the opposite way this time, and discuss a few cards first...
Silumgar's Command - Test slot, since I needed a 60th maindeck card, and I wanted something 'flexable', so I figured why not have a 5 mana: negate/boomerrang, Negate/Last Gasp, Negate/Hero's Downfall, Boomerang/Last Gasp, Boomerang/Hero's Downfall, Last Gasp/Hero's Downfall. May still be cut, but it may stick around for awhile.
Far // Away - Against Boggles/Infect/All-in Affinty kill/Geist of St. Traft, Away shines. Far can help me with re-using Snapcaster, or saving Snapcaser, an animated Creeping tar Pit, sadly can not save Keranos but alas. I just feel it's a decent enough card as a 'combat-trick'.
Countersquall - Just a strictly better negate that people forget about, and sure there's times where 'Goyf hits the field, but he can be met with a bolt, Terminate, Damnation, etc so that's not a valid argument. 'sides, it's a hard counter for UB, only dealing with non-creatures sure, but it can also do a small 2 damage for you, which is sometimes needed. Hasn't failed me yet, Had a Island/Sunken ruins out, used 2 mana leaks, opp figured there was no way I had another, cast an instant to kill me, I countersqualled, and came back. Considering a lot of cards "we're" worried about, like Karn, Liliana of the Veil, Scapeshift, etc why wouldn't you want a 2 mana counter...
Batterskull - I've cast it successfully several times now, and stabilized each time. It's certainly helped bring me back from the dead vs Burn a few times once they get to topdeck mode.
As for my Burn/Tron match-ups, Burn may be a small issue sure but theres only so much to be done, and with so little burn decks in the area (2 out of 30 people) I'm fine with 1 harder match. Tron on the other hand isn't a complete wash, and I feel my list is quite decent vs it, perhaps not perfect but thats fine as well. I've got enough ways of dealing with things they have, post-board I can sowing salt away a tron land, I can K-Command cards from they're hand, Thoughseize away threats, etc. Now sure, some of this thought process may be magical christmas land, but to re-evaluate my deck for 2 matchups that aren't total washes isn't 100% worth looking into, sure I'll be looking for ways to better deal with said decks (namely burn) but alas, I'm fine with stalling against them as much as I can.
The third K-Command doesn't just come in for certain decks, to be fair. I've brought it in vs: Burn, Tron, Affinity, Merfolk, CoCo, Control, Ad Naus. I've likely sided it in vs other decks as well.
So once again, thanks for the questions/feedback, and I'll be sure to stick around to answer more/do the few reports I can.
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Make sure you bleed the fine print.
Decks Playing:
(Win-Loss-Tie totals in FNM/Ptq/Gpt's)
Modern:
DredgeVine (10-3-0)
Latern Control (24-5-0)
Cruel Control (19-5-1)
Urza-Eggs (29-13-1)
8-Rack (13-5-0, Retired for now)
BG Loam Pox (with Rack) (15-5-1, Retired for now)
3 Land Belcher (4-2-0) Retired for good.
So your deck has me thinking... but I need to understand a few things.
QUESTION 1: Tasigur, the Golden Fang? Don't like it? Don't have it? Don't think it's needed? Not having him interests me; perhaps I'm going about my Control list all wrong... Tasigur seems hella spicy; but at the same time it requires a package to be good... The Gurmag; the Thought Scours; the Serum Visions; among other things... if I pull Tasigur; I don't feel I need Gurmag; Thought Scour can go; and just alot of things get freed up. So yes; No Tasigur?
QUESTION 2: Also; the fact that you're running so few creatures; it really makes the Damnation option really really good and loads better!!!
I would almost argue the it could be worth while to also mainboard Anger of the Gods too?
QUESTION 3: I've been testing Anticipate in my build; and honestly I don't like it; but that's because of the Tasigur/Gurmag/ThoughtScour package... just doesn't fit. But I think in your list; it just looks FANTASTIC! You don't have that whole package; thus you can run more cantrips to get you through the earlier turns; thus Anticipate is there to really dig out specific Answers or Cruels. FANTASTIC!!! Your list seems to really make Anticipate great would you agree??
Ok, now this is in no away meant to be insulting, or what not about your version of Cruel
Q1 - Tasigur's a great card... in a midrange/Delve deck. I feel for my version of control, spending the time to play Tassy, and use the ability, theres so many bad options I get brought back to my hand, that I can not find it worthwhile. Now in the lists I've seen people here running him, sure he's likely great, but I don't like him in a control shell.
Q2 - After tonight, depending on the number of 'creature' decks around, I may end up using my 'test slot' for Anger, I just didn't main one, because I don't want too many board wipes due to control/combo decks just not caring about them, hence my 1 boardwipe main, 2 in the board.
Q3 - Anticipate is such a grea card in my list, I've found, because once you have an idea (or straight out know) what you're opponents on, turn 2 you can start digging for all the right answers! But if I were on the Tasigur plan, I'm all about cutting the anicipates for a better shell.
No insult taken; trust me; I've been gathering perspective and info from alot of different sides and formulating my list and tweeking things based on feedback and the things learned; so I appreciate you answering my questions.
Tasigur --> The one things I'll say; with Tasigur and Gurmag and the Snapcasters; all that goes a long way to keeping the GY "Clean" so that you have alot of control over what cards you're getting back. But I do believe with your list; I don't know how much I'd like it in your style. So I agree with your point that it doesn't work for you; and that's ok. You've opened me up to different possibilities; and to me that's huge info to have gained.
Anger of the Gods --> Actually; when I tweeked your list to how I would play it; I think your list would be just fine with just simply a 2nd Damnation and leaving the Anger of the Gods options in the side.
You have plenty to do in the early turns to keep Creature decks down; and so around Turn 5, or 6; when you're ON PATH for CRUEL Turn 7; Damnation to wipe the board and then Pass.
They will play a creature; and Pass; then you play CRUEL; which they have to SAC that creature and at that point you've taken the game over.
So instead of a Anger; I think you'd do be better off adding a 2nd Damnation instead.
But IDK; that's just my advice...
Anticipate --> Yea I'm still not giving up on the option... I've refined my list and still will keep it as an option to see how it goes... and if it still turns out to be iffy; then I'll try the Visions; and then end up moving to a NO Tasigur/Gurmag Control shell like yours.
I'm not ready to give up on the Tasigur/Gurmag plan just yet... but I really like your list; thanks for sharing and providing your insight!!!
The deck that gives me the most trouble is Zoo/really aggressive decks. Since those decks were giving me the most trouble I decided to move an anger from my sideboard mainboard and free up another sb slot. So 1 damnation 1 anger main. So far it's worked out well, it makes the deck weaker v. combo/control but not by that much and its only game 1. I'd rather have a better shot with such an important spell mainboard like anger which can really swing a game v. those aggressive decks than have that tiny edge vs control/combo which aren't the worst matchups, especially post board.
To answer a question about discard in my list: I will likely never maindeck any discard spell, minus K-Command. Makes horrible topdecks, and each has a flaw, IoK can't hit scapeshift, karn, etc. Thoughtseize helps burn/zoo kill me.
However, I took my list to FNM and I'm still pleased with my results.
Round 1 - Naya Enchantment 'Control'/Prison - 2-0
Game 1 - Bolts to the face seem good... Luckily no Leyline of Sanctity at all.
Game 2 - Got turn 2 Blood Moon'd but still managed to go turn 19 tri-Snapcaster beats (Using Silumgar's Command/Cryptic to bounce a Blood Moon/ CounterGreater Auramancy, and then countering Moon/bouncing a Ghostly Prison.
Game 2 - 3 Delver/2 Goyf's are hard to beat with no mass removal... (dug 22 cards) :/
Round 3 - Scapeshift - 2-0
Game 1 - Countered FIVE Scapeshift's (2 snapcastered) and opp saltily scooped.
Game 2 - Countered a few Scapeshifts, let a Keranos resolve... my Keranos just out bolted my opp.
Round 4 - Slivers - 2-0
Game 1 - 1 for 1's for days... and K-Command is GREAT vs the greedy Aether Vial / '5' Color deck.
Game 2 - More board wipes! Also, Cast 2 Cruel Ultimatums, and opp just couldn't deal with it...
Overall: 3-1-0
Plus with winnings I bought a MM15 pack, and opened a Goyf/foil Iona... Worth coming third haha
Also, my random Bonus match I had, was vs a 3 land Belcher deck that never once was able to resolve belcher (no pacts of negation, more like the legacy version, tho the deck CAN win turn 1 ((it's one of my brews, but I loaned it for the evening))) Easy a 2-0 but I'd never count that as a REAL win
In your collective experience, does cockatrice yield poor testing for you all, or am I being overly high in my expectations? I mostly play at a shop where I'm near the fewest GP day 2's in the room (only two myself, though granted I'm more likely to judge), but maybe this is unrealistic to expect that level of play from the general online populace at large?
Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
It is why I usually kick a lot of people out of the game until you found some decent ones. Turn one hedron crab = kick. I even came to battle ashtonkutcher a couple of times. My only losses against burn decks (playing) are actually on cockatrice, not in GPT, PPTQ (X-)finals for example. Day 2's ha
DECKS:
UB Faeries [Midrange/Tempo]
RWUGB Affinity[Aggro]
FAERIES TOO STRONK!!!1111
- Fae Prophecy, 201
5678Modern has no good general counterspell, so I've settled on using Countersquall.
I suggest that everyone who needs Cryptic Command, Fulminator Mage and Vendilion Clique get those cards before the June 11th-13th weekend. There is a Modern GP hosted by Star City Games and I expect prices to increase significantly.
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU
"Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR
"The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
youguys know of the program X-Mage right?It seems really nice and it even keeps track of your triggers in a similar way to Magic online. it seems to be a little better if you wanna test online. I usually only test at my shops but it is worth looking into.
"The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
- Nicol Bolas
I like Countersquall; even as a 1 of that can be flashed back with Snapcaster; that actually seems pretty solid.
Agreed; add Snapcaster to that list; I suspect Snapcaster will go up in Price probably after this GP as well.
I don't touch Cockatrice for Testing; maybe I'm a newb... probably.
I trust my live Testing at the Shop or in Top Gauntlets.
If I ever load up Cockatrice; it's to test VS Known people; people I know not VS anyone Random.
XMage is actually pretty solid though too; but it's the same thing; if it's pre-planned set up testing yes; Randoms, no.
"The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
- Nicol Bolas
Nice! With Keranos in the main; are you casting it Turn 5 if you have it? Or later? Just curious...
Makes sense; and that'll be my challenge being new to the Current Modern Meta Game again; it's been a good while since I last played Modern.... Outta be fun and yet so depressing having to figure out those situations.
Thanks for the insight!
EDIT:
So this is what I'm taking to my first Modern even in about a year or 2 tonight...
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Keranos, God of Storms
2 Tasigur, The Golden Fang
1 Gurmag Angler
1 Mulldrifter
Spells: 25
2 Cruel Ultimatum
3 Terminate
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Electrolyze
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Cryptic Command
2 Mana Leak
1 Remand
2 Spell Snare
1 Shadow of Doubt
2 Anticipate
3 Thought Scour
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
Lands: 25
2 Watery Grave
3 Steam Vents
1 Blood Crypt
1 Drowned Catacombs
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Dragonskull Summit
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
3 Polluted Delta
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Island
2 Mountain
2 Swamp
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Slaughter Games
1 Counterflux
2 Dispel
2 Spellskite
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Wrecking Ball
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Crypt Incursion
2 Volcanic Fallout
1 Pyroclasm
I know alot of the card choices about my deck is heavily debated and alot don't like.
I'm going for a more Instant Speed control style while being less Tap Out.
Anticipate being one of the cards I myself am not sure about; but want to try it...
Wrecking Ball out of the side is planned to be Sowing Salt; however I don't have any Sowing Salt's at the moment, so I opted for a versatile Land Destruction OR Creature Kill Card at Instant Speed that works as well. Bottom line; I wanted 3 ways to Destroy Lands... Fulminators get returned by Kolaghan's Commands and Cruels; while the Instant Wrecking Ball can be flashbacked by Snapcaster. I think it's Flexible enough...
Out of the side also I'm opting for Volcanic Fallout; most everyone seems good with going with Anger of the Gods; but I've seen alot of the aggro Zoo decks and alot of the creatures are 2 Toughness or lower. Sure there are some that are 3 or more... But because I'm less of a Tap Out deck and a bit more Controlly; I wanted the Instant Speed option of sweep; Lightning Bolts and Terminates clean up the rest.
Crypt Incursion is an odd ball Sideboard option; and honestly it probably really should be Rakdos Charm; but as unbelievable as it might be; I've gone to 3 diff shops in my area and NO ONE has a Rakdos Charm. LOL But on the bright side; I actually like what Crypt Incursion might be able to do. VS alot of the Hybrid Zoo Burn decks; there's still plenty of creatures. VS any Reanimation or Kolaghan's Command creature decks; there's plenty to remove. Kolaghan's Command is getting alot of PUB in Modern, and I suspect that there'll be alot of ways to abuse creatures out of the GY. This used to be a fantastic card back in the day to gain chunks of life... 9 to 12 or more. Sometimes that's all CRUEL Control needs to buy us that additional turn to cast Cruel. That's the thought process with this choice. And you can easily flash it back with Snapcaster; BONUS.
Beyond that; I feel I've explained the rest of the choices; whether we agreed on them or not...
Sunken ruins seemed unnecessary now tbh. If you just run 3 or so checklands, like sulfur falls or drowned catacomb instead you can still have a decent amount of resiliency to cards like choke and boil while also smoothing out your mana to cast things like terminate. If you have ever had a terminate in hand and a sunken ruins and steam vents in play you will know what I mean, it is really frustrating. Sure it helps to cast damnation, cruel, and cryptic command but imo people used to play sunken ruins over checklands because we didn't have that great of a manabase to cast cruel ultimatum. Like we used to play 4 Scalding tarn and 3 misty rainforest. The mana was worse and so we needed sunken ruins to pull it all together. Now that isn't true anymore. Our manabase is much better and with 7-8 on color fetchlands we can reliably cast cruel ultimatum with almost no problems (unless something is really out of whack with your manabase).
Finally I had an idea that since you all seem to want to test with people who aren't random people on cockatrice, Why not test with each other? I assume you all use the woogerworks server and can just add each other on there. I would be willing to play some test matches myself if anyone wants to get some good testing in. What do you all think about this.
LOL SPOT ON!!!
No it's funny; like I said I haven't played Modern in a long time...
The last time I played Modern; it was called EXTENDED and Faeries was the top deck and you wanted Fallouts. HAHA
So prior to me going; I posted on the Forums and sent GrixisGuru a message privately.
He gave me the heads up about Fallout and I happen to read it prior to the event... Just on the fact that Anger removes Finks and Voice from the GAME and they don't trigger; that's all the reason you need right there.
I was sold of course and made the change before the EVENT... GrixisGuru saved me!!! HAHA Toooooooo funny!
As far as the Event goes; I knew there'd be some growing pains... So I wasn't expecting much... there's alot of challenges here.
1.) Haven't played Modern in forever... SO I'm getting used to My Cards again; getting used to all the cards my opponent has... Alot of the cards I used to see and play a long time ago when they were STD legal; but man... you forget those cards when you don't see them for a long time.
2.) Didn't know what to expect in general...
3.) My list was a bit more Control-ish; and with Control Grixis decks; you do need to have alot of knowledge on the Metagame and the Format you're playing; to which I had NONE. Just all theorizing... With that; honestly Grixis Tap Out is probably the better way to go regardless... IDK
So with that being said; the day didn't go so hot... however; minus the play mistakes from forgetting what certain cards do; or honestly never seeing other cards ever before; to being stressed playing alot of my cards for the first time and just not really focused on the game or board state... I have to say I was greatly encouraged with the deck and had a great time.
ROUND 1 VS Abzan Coco
Loss 1-2
Game 1: I kept a 1 Lander... DAH! Never keep a 1 Lander; apparently the same is true in Modern even if you have a few draw spells and lightning bolts and a good chunk of your hand is playable on 1 land and even better if you draw the 2nd... That cost me; funny thing is; I still ALMOST craweled back into the game; pushed it to the point where I still ended up in CRUEL range even after missing my 2nd land for about 3 or 4 turns. That's how good my opening hand turned out to be matched with his. Lightning Bolts; Thought Scours; still managed to stick a Tasigur. It was nutty hand...
Game 2: I resolve 3 CRUELs and controlled the game... Anger of the Gods! (Thanks GrixisGuru) And obviously our deck shines VS those 2 Toughness aggro decks... Lightning Bolts; Terminates for Goyf; etc.. etc.. 3 CRUELS and GG.
Game 3: He gets off a great aggro board; I pick off the bigs here and there; I'm easily within CRUEL range; but see no Cruel or Anger; and easily could of stablized; but things just didn't draw well.
ROUND 2 VS Atarka Naya Burn
Loss 0-2
Game 1 and 2; not even worth discussing... I hung in there like a champ; Game 1 I did manage to get within CRUEL range and he was in TOP DECK mode; I thought I had the Game Locked up; but he top decked great over 3 turns and I top decked lands and had no way to dig out Cruels or something to save me... He finishes game 1 on a Atarka's Command + Lightning Bolt; I Snare the Command and take the Bolt for lethal...
Game 2 it wasn't even close... Goblin Guides; tons of Burn; turns out Spellskite actually doesn't save me VS alot of their Burn spells???? I thought that was one of the key matches for Spellskite? Yea just total blow out... Will have to re-tool for sure.
ROUND 3 VS Boros Aggro/Burn
Win 2-0
Game 1 and 2 total ANNIHILATION for me... It was a budget deck; missing alot of the key Burn spells and Creatures probably too. But I'll say this; Budget or not; if my deck sucked; you still lose; but my deck did everything it was designed to do. Easily dispatched the creatures; saved Counters for the Burn and CRUEL CRUEL CRUEL.
Game 2 I cast CRUEL; I draw Bolas off the Cruel. So then I play Bolas the next turn... The few turns after that I see nothing but just kill off any creature he plays while destroying a few of his lands... The final turn I top deck Snapcaster. So I Ultimate Bolas; Cast Snapcaster target CRUEL and CRUEL in the same turn for GG. lol
So although I didn't do too hot; I made some mistakes in the 1st Round; got totally annihilated by Atarka Naya Burn in the 2nd Round; and annihilated my last round... Cast CRUEL quite of few times; ended games with Bolas...
I had a hell of a great time!
After the event; I played the Shop Keepers Reanimation Deck; Turn 1 he gets Blood Moon in the first game; 2nd game he gets Turn 2 Emrakul... GG 0-2
smh
I've got a few ideas for some adjustments; but all in all had I known more about the format; practiced more; I think things would have been better... Once I cast the first CRUEL of the night; I got into the zone and it felt great!!! So I saw a ton of good things about the deck; while some other things that were MEH.
...stay tuned
I agree on both of these points.
Relic of Progenitus - This card actually does seem extremely effective with Tasigur, the Golden fang. My only concern with this is that I dunno that I could warrant putting this in the mainboard as a hate card because it is essentially a Mulligan against most decks and I'm not sure the selection is so overwhelmingly better that I would want it there. I thinkif this is a saidebaord card I'm not sure how much better slash worse it is in matches where Rakdos charm has versatility. I would say that the against Living end it is essentially the same card, but against a deck like Twin or Affinity the loss of this card I feel is much to great. I mean ometimes against an unsuspecting Twin plyer we can kill them with the damage off the charm or at minimum we can knock out their graveyard to avoid a snapcaster bolt you plan.
"The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
- Nicol Bolas
Anyways, heres from my memory of the evening:
1 Batterskull
Creatures (5):
1 Keranos, God of Storms
4 Snapcaster Mage
Instants (26):
4 Anticipate
1 Counterflux
1 Countersquall
3 Cryptic Command
2 Electrolyze
1 Far // Away
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mana Leak
2 Spell Snare
1 Silumgar's Command (Test Slot)
2 Terminate
1 Blood Crypt
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Cascade Bluffs
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Darkslick Shores
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
3 Polluted Delta
3 Steam Vents
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Sunken Ruins
2 Watery Grave
Sorceries (3):
2 Cruel Ultimatum
1 Damnation
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Counterflux
1 Kolaghan's Command
2 Monastery Siege
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Rakdos Charm
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Slaughter Games
1 Sowing Salt
2 Thoughtseize
1 Vandalblast
Round 1 - Ad Naeuseam Combo - 1-2
Game 1 - Try to control as much as possible, opp goes for the combo, and I counterflux the Lightning Storm
Game 2 - See 0% of sideboard, get silence'd.
Game 3 - Few counters tossed off and on... Sadly, Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir just shut me down...
Can I also say I personally hate this deck... lol
Round 2 - Podless Pod - 1-0-1:
Game 2 - Game goes to time, due to opponent slow playing, not knowing cards, not playing properly... Wasn't pleased.
Round 3 - Fish - 2-1:
Game 2 - Bolts, Snapcasters, and Engineered Explosives saved me (was planning EE on 1, but opp brought in Chalice of the Void on 2 so that had to go...)
Game 3 - Bolts, Anger of the Gods, and Kolaghan's Command were the allstars, opp couldn't keep dudes out, and scooped to a single Ultimatum
Round 4 - Mono-G Aggro - 2-0
Game 2 - Anger of the Gods x2, Lightning Bolts, and Terminates kept the field open until I cast Batterskull.
Game 2 - Bit of a grindier game, but Batterskull, 2 snapcasters and Keranos just killed him.
Overall, went 3-1-1 so no complaints for the first 'run' with he deck, I have a modern fnm tonight, so I'll be trying to make it in again to play / post some more results. Sorry I'm not overly detailed, but I have limited time for notes.
Decks Playing:
(Win-Loss-Tie totals in FNM/Ptq/Gpt's)
Modern:
DredgeVine (10-3-0)
Latern Control (24-5-0)
Cruel Control (19-5-1)
Urza-Eggs (29-13-1)
8-Rack (13-5-0, Retired for now)
BG Loam Pox (with Rack) (15-5-1, Retired for now)
3 Land Belcher (4-2-0) Retired for good.
Artificer's Intuition Surfing
Prison Pox (8-3-0)
Solidarity (Instant High tide Storm)
Zombardment
Pauper:
Oops all Spells (2-0-0)
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU
"Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR
"The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
So your deck has me thinking... but I need to understand a few things.
QUESTION 1: Tasigur, the Golden Fang? Don't like it? Don't have it? Don't think it's needed? Not having him interests me; perhaps I'm going about my Control list all wrong... Tasigur seems hella spicy; but at the same time it requires a package to be good... The Gurmag; the Thought Scours; the Serum Visions; among other things... if I pull Tasigur; I don't feel I need Gurmag; Thought Scour can go; and just alot of things get freed up. So yes; No Tasigur?
QUESTION 2: Also; the fact that you're running so few creatures; it really makes the Damnation option really really good and loads better!!!
I would almost argue the it could be worth while to also mainboard Anger of the Gods too?
QUESTION 3: I've been testing Anticipate in my build; and honestly I don't like it; but that's because of the Tasigur/Gurmag/ThoughtScour package... just doesn't fit. But I think in your list; it just looks FANTASTIC! You don't have that whole package; thus you can run more cantrips to get you through the earlier turns; thus Anticipate is there to really dig out specific Answers or Cruels. FANTASTIC!!! Your list seems to really make Anticipate great would you agree??
As far as Control Shells go; I think you've done a fantastic job and have really got me re-thinking my list!!
I think I'm having an issue with being caught between both trying to be Control but also being Tap Out.
And to be fair to myself; when I first designed my list; I didn't use the Forums; I went to the SCG: Open Modern event listings.
Took the past 10 or so Events; listed every Grixis Deck; compared them... Now granted; most of those lists were Twin/Blood Moon Combo/Delver; but the shells were all the same; and they were all successful.
So I took that Shell; changed all the win conditions; added more land... and that's where I started.
The Tasigurs and Gurmag have been fantastic; but perhaps they're holding me back?
Honestly, I may have to, I just dislike having such a 'single-handed' card take up too many slots. Even though there's a fair amount of combo in my meta, Ad Naus is the only one that I've struggled vs, but it may also be I've yet to play a lot of games vs with control, I've normally just out-raced with my version of Urza-Eggs, but that's another story...
Ok, now this is in no away meant to be insulting, or what not about your version of Cruel
Q1 - Tasigur's a great card... in a midrange/Delve deck. I feel for my version of control, spending the time to play Tassy, and use the ability, theres so many bad options I get brought back to my hand, that I can not find it worthwhile. Now in the lists I've seen people here running him, sure he's likely great, but I don't like him in a control shell.
Q2 - After tonight, depending on the number of 'creature' decks around, I may end up using my 'test slot' for Anger, I just didn't main one, because I don't want too many board wipes due to control/combo decks just not caring about them, hence my 1 boardwipe main, 2 in the board.
Q3 - Anticipate is such a grea card in my list, I've found, because once you have an idea (or straight out know) what you're opponents on, turn 2 you can start digging for all the right answers! But if I were on the Tasigur plan, I'm all about cutting the anicipates for a better shell.
Ok, so I'll start the opposite way this time, and discuss a few cards first...
Silumgar's Command - Test slot, since I needed a 60th maindeck card, and I wanted something 'flexable', so I figured why not have a 5 mana: negate/boomerrang, Negate/Last Gasp, Negate/Hero's Downfall, Boomerang/Last Gasp, Boomerang/Hero's Downfall, Last Gasp/Hero's Downfall. May still be cut, but it may stick around for awhile.
Far // Away - Against Boggles/Infect/All-in Affinty kill/Geist of St. Traft, Away shines. Far can help me with re-using Snapcaster, or saving Snapcaser, an animated Creeping tar Pit, sadly can not save Keranos but alas. I just feel it's a decent enough card as a 'combat-trick'.
Countersquall - Just a strictly better negate that people forget about, and sure there's times where 'Goyf hits the field, but he can be met with a bolt, Terminate, Damnation, etc so that's not a valid argument. 'sides, it's a hard counter for UB, only dealing with non-creatures sure, but it can also do a small 2 damage for you, which is sometimes needed. Hasn't failed me yet, Had a Island/Sunken ruins out, used 2 mana leaks, opp figured there was no way I had another, cast an instant to kill me, I countersqualled, and came back. Considering a lot of cards "we're" worried about, like Karn, Liliana of the Veil, Scapeshift, etc why wouldn't you want a 2 mana counter...
Batterskull - I've cast it successfully several times now, and stabilized each time. It's certainly helped bring me back from the dead vs Burn a few times once they get to topdeck mode.
As for my Burn/Tron match-ups, Burn may be a small issue sure but theres only so much to be done, and with so little burn decks in the area (2 out of 30 people) I'm fine with 1 harder match. Tron on the other hand isn't a complete wash, and I feel my list is quite decent vs it, perhaps not perfect but thats fine as well. I've got enough ways of dealing with things they have, post-board I can sowing salt away a tron land, I can K-Command cards from they're hand, Thoughseize away threats, etc. Now sure, some of this thought process may be magical christmas land, but to re-evaluate my deck for 2 matchups that aren't total washes isn't 100% worth looking into, sure I'll be looking for ways to better deal with said decks (namely burn) but alas, I'm fine with stalling against them as much as I can.
The third K-Command doesn't just come in for certain decks, to be fair. I've brought it in vs: Burn, Tron, Affinity, Merfolk, CoCo, Control, Ad Naus. I've likely sided it in vs other decks as well.
So once again, thanks for the questions/feedback, and I'll be sure to stick around to answer more/do the few reports I can.
Decks Playing:
(Win-Loss-Tie totals in FNM/Ptq/Gpt's)
Modern:
DredgeVine (10-3-0)
Latern Control (24-5-0)
Cruel Control (19-5-1)
Urza-Eggs (29-13-1)
8-Rack (13-5-0, Retired for now)
BG Loam Pox (with Rack) (15-5-1, Retired for now)
3 Land Belcher (4-2-0) Retired for good.
Artificer's Intuition Surfing
Prison Pox (8-3-0)
Solidarity (Instant High tide Storm)
Zombardment
Pauper:
Oops all Spells (2-0-0)
No insult taken; trust me; I've been gathering perspective and info from alot of different sides and formulating my list and tweeking things based on feedback and the things learned; so I appreciate you answering my questions.
Tasigur --> The one things I'll say; with Tasigur and Gurmag and the Snapcasters; all that goes a long way to keeping the GY "Clean" so that you have alot of control over what cards you're getting back. But I do believe with your list; I don't know how much I'd like it in your style. So I agree with your point that it doesn't work for you; and that's ok. You've opened me up to different possibilities; and to me that's huge info to have gained.
Anger of the Gods --> Actually; when I tweeked your list to how I would play it; I think your list would be just fine with just simply a 2nd Damnation and leaving the Anger of the Gods options in the side.
You have plenty to do in the early turns to keep Creature decks down; and so around Turn 5, or 6; when you're ON PATH for CRUEL Turn 7; Damnation to wipe the board and then Pass.
They will play a creature; and Pass; then you play CRUEL; which they have to SAC that creature and at that point you've taken the game over.
So instead of a Anger; I think you'd do be better off adding a 2nd Damnation instead.
But IDK; that's just my advice...
Anticipate --> Yea I'm still not giving up on the option... I've refined my list and still will keep it as an option to see how it goes... and if it still turns out to be iffy; then I'll try the Visions; and then end up moving to a NO Tasigur/Gurmag Control shell like yours.
I'm not ready to give up on the Tasigur/Gurmag plan just yet... but I really like your list; thanks for sharing and providing your insight!!!
However, I took my list to FNM and I'm still pleased with my results.
Round 1 - Naya Enchantment 'Control'/Prison - 2-0
Game 1 - Bolts to the face seem good... Luckily no Leyline of Sanctity at all.
Game 2 - Got turn 2 Blood Moon'd but still managed to go turn 19 tri-Snapcaster beats (Using Silumgar's Command/Cryptic to bounce a Blood Moon/ CounterGreater Auramancy, and then countering Moon/bouncing a Ghostly Prison.
Round 2 - RUG Delver - 0-2
Game 2 - 3 Delver/2 Goyf's are hard to beat with no mass removal... (dug 22 cards) :/
Round 3 - Scapeshift - 2-0
Game 2 - Countered a few Scapeshifts, let a Keranos resolve... my Keranos just out bolted my opp.
Round 4 - Slivers - 2-0
Game 2 - More board wipes! Also, Cast 2 Cruel Ultimatums, and opp just couldn't deal with it...
Overall: 3-1-0
Plus with winnings I bought a MM15 pack, and opened a Goyf/foil Iona... Worth coming third haha
Also, my random Bonus match I had, was vs a 3 land Belcher deck that never once was able to resolve belcher (no pacts of negation, more like the legacy version, tho the deck CAN win turn 1 ((it's one of my brews, but I loaned it for the evening))) Easy a 2-0 but I'd never count that as a REAL win
Decks Playing:
(Win-Loss-Tie totals in FNM/Ptq/Gpt's)
Modern:
DredgeVine (10-3-0)
Latern Control (24-5-0)
Cruel Control (19-5-1)
Urza-Eggs (29-13-1)
8-Rack (13-5-0, Retired for now)
BG Loam Pox (with Rack) (15-5-1, Retired for now)
3 Land Belcher (4-2-0) Retired for good.
Artificer's Intuition Surfing
Prison Pox (8-3-0)
Solidarity (Instant High tide Storm)
Zombardment
Pauper:
Oops all Spells (2-0-0)