for hatebears theres a lot of little things you need to familiarize urself with in order to do well vs them, wraths are really great vs them since some of them play resto angel to save their guys vs targeted removal. Hatebears isn't really played that much these days but its one of my favorite decks to play vs because of just how fun the matchup is. Also make sure to play ur fetchlands asap vs them because you can play around leonin arbiter that way, you don't necessarily need to crack them asap but if they activate vial on 2 counters you might want to respond by cracking ur fetch because if not they could arbiter u, same with 3 for aven mindcensor.
Hatebears MU is all about if they draw Aether vial early or not. If not, you're heavily favored, if they did then you really have to know how to play around all their disruption which, for someone who hasn't played the MU a lot you're probably going to get stomped. I had a friend who played only Hatebears / DnT, and the MU was very dependent on who won the dice roll, and if he had an early Vial.
I started testing X2 Forbidden Alchemy and X3 Dig Through Time and so far it's worked out well. Alchemy is super sweet. Those 2 cards + Snapcaster Mage create a lot of value together. I've also been running X1 Izzet Charm, it's very flexible and also fuels Dig.
I'been playing 4x Thought Scour. It's been quite the card.
It lets us leave mana open for other 1 mana plays, which is fantastic. You don't get the card selection of Serum Visions but cheap and early Dig Through Time is somewhat necessary for this deck.
Hi all, I was looking around and came upon shaun mclarens modern UWR list and noticed he cut sphinx rev entirely, and seems to have replaced it with just dig through times, pretty interesting I still don't know if we would want to do the equivalent in shaving ultimatum for dig (especially since Ultimatum is my favorite card! ). Just thought i'd share that news. For those interested if u were to go that route the manabase would get much smoother (although imo its def. manageable atm, still something though).
Also I've been playing more and more with the Forbidden Alchemy and after testing more it just seemed really poor to have so many digs in hand with not enough delve fuel so I upped the count of Fa's to 3 and that felt a lot better than just playing with 2. Mana leak is such an annoying card though I kept getting punished because in the lategame it would just be such a dead card... it just feels like mana curves in modern have gotten a lot smaller thanks to things like treasure cruise so in the later parts of the game if they have a dangerous 1-3 mana card it just feels like we cant counter it, same thing with treasure cruise it is so hard to counter that 1 mana spell with mana leak... (dont even get me started with how bad mana leak is vs ramp decks..)
I've had to resort to playing a single copy of Deprive (always despised this card because it just teases you for wanting to play counterspell ) anyway this card has actually been such a good card in my experience. I would recommend others give it a shot I wouldn't play that many but I think this card definitely should be considered because to me it has synergy with dig through time decks. In standard U/B control for instance you just want to dig into hard counter dissolve and hard removal hero's downfall in the later parts of the game, we do have cryptics but these are much more expensive to cast than terminates (which are already a bit expensive compared to path to exile) and most decks only run 3 so its not as reliable to grab with dig. This is why i like deprive in a dig control deck because it lets you dig into a hard counter when your mana is constrained ( in a pinch ). Just sayin' every single time i saw this card it was like seeing a tank of ice cold water after 40 years of dehydration in a desert.
Hi all, I was looking around and came upon shaun mclarens modern UWR list and noticed he cut sphinx rev entirely, and seems to have replaced it with just dig through times, pretty interesting I still don't know if we would want to do the equivalent in shaving ultimatum for dig (especially since Ultimatum is my favorite card! ). Just thought i'd share that news. For those interested if u were to go that route the manabase would get much smoother (although imo its def. manageable atm, still something though).
Also I've been playing more and more with the Forbidden Alchemy and after testing more it just seemed really poor to have so many digs in hand with not enough delve fuel so I upped the count of Fa's to 3 and that felt a lot better than just playing with 2. Mana leak is such an annoying card though I kept getting punished because in the lategame it would just be such a dead card... it just feels like mana curves in modern have gotten a lot smaller thanks to things like treasure cruise so in the later parts of the game if they have a dangerous 1-3 mana card it just feels like we cant counter it, same thing with treasure cruise it is so hard to counter that 1 mana spell with mana leak... (dont even get me started with how bad mana leak is vs ramp decks..)
I've had to resort to playing a single copy of Deprive (always despised this card because it just teases you for wanting to play counterspell ) anyway this card has actually been such a good card in my experience. I would recommend others give it a shot I wouldn't play that many but I think this card definitely should be considered because to me it has synergy with dig through time decks. In standard U/B control for instance you just want to dig into hard counter dissolve and hard removal hero's downfall in the later parts of the game, we do have cryptics but these are much more expensive to cast than terminates (which are already a bit expensive compared to path to exile) and most decks only run 3 so its not as reliable to grab with dig. This is why i like deprive in a dig control deck because it lets you dig into a hard counter when your mana is constrained ( in a pinch ). Just sayin' every single time i saw this card it was like seeing a tank of ice cold water after 40 years of dehydration in a desert.
Deprive has always intrigued me but I'm not really sold on it. Early game it seems like it really hinders you, and late game you're in a position where you could afford to cast Counterflux or Dissolve instead.
I guess I should try to be a better salesman for a single copy of deprive in the deck ( although i haven't tested more than one). Mostly I would compare it to something like path to exile it's downside is bad in the earlier parts of the game, but later on the downside is very negligible/ fairly irrelevant. This works pretty well for my playstyle in particular since I like to save my counters for only spells that matter, with mana leak these days it seems like you just have to counter for value or risk it becoming dead in the lategame... This is not the case with Deprive. Why I don't like counterflux and dissolve is because those are both more expensive (yes even 1 more cmc is significant in modern especially with snapcaster in the deck low cmc is optimal) and people don't really maindeck counterflux because of that reason, its mostly a sideboard card whereas deprive is very maindeckable. there's somewhat of a similar thing happening with negate (traditionally its been a sideboard card) although this is to a lesser extent i think. You could always have a mix of the two if you really love negate a lot, and also i would say that there are definitely some creature cards that you want to be countering in a control deck, arcbound ravager for one, primeval titan, young pyromancer, wurmcoil engine (gl mana leaking that one when they have tron mana to spare), voice of resurgence (mainly because we don't play things like path), most chiefly geist of saint traft, the list goes on for a bit more but you get the idea.
Unrelated I think also we should be playing 3 spell snares, its kind of difficult to fit in the deck but I think its positioned really well these days, especially given how popular remand is since remanding a cruise/dig is big game these days snaring the remand can be pretty awesome (same with mana leak sometimes), not to mention I think its good against voice of resurgence and I know im not the only one who hates that card..
I guess I should try to be a better salesman for a single copy of deprive in the deck ( although i haven't tested more than one). Mostly I would compare it to something like path to exile it's downside is bad in the earlier parts of the game, but later on the downside is very negligible/ fairly irrelevant. This works pretty well for my playstyle in particular since I like to save my counters for only spells that matter, with mana leak these days it seems like you just have to counter for value or risk it becoming dead in the lategame... This is not the case with Deprive.
I really don't like Deprive, out of respect of keeping our mana intact. To plow through UR Delvers counters, you need to leverage your mana and Deprive won't necessarily get us there.
As a singleton it's probably fine -- maybe even great -- but it has a high amount of variance that I find unappealling.
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I actively don't understand the dislike of Remand in this thread. It's a cantrip that hits land drops -- which we need to do. It's also easier to cast than Shadow of Doubt. You want to hit your land drops and be able to set up a timely Cruel Ultimatum or Batterskull. I understand what you mean when you say, "but it doesn't hard counter," but you have to accept that you need cards that say "Draw a card" in your deck. This lets you set up more expensive counters and the mana for things down the road. As a control deck, you want to be able to deal with things efficiently and Remand lets you deal with things with a developed mana base (i.e. Remand, untap, play land, hold up two spells or one expensive one), rather than sitting on your hands waiting for Wizards to reprint Counterspell in the current meta.
As far has hard counters go, as long as you're playing something like Thought Scour or Forbidden Alchemy, I have found Logic Knot to be an acceptable card as a one-of.
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I do enjoy the current meta where you don't really need Tectonic Edge to function as a control deck (really, Gavony Township is probably the biggest concern). With this freedom, I've taken liberties to mess around with cards like Desolate Lighthouse, which is another great Dig Through Time fueler.
logic knot is great but the problem is if you have that much delve fuel to spare don't you just want to be playing more dig through times instead? regarding thought scour, are you not concerned if it hits ur batterskull or w.e win con u play? For this reason I think I prefer Forbidden Alchemy.
I like remand as well (i've been a proponent of it for a long time now), I don't think people should compare it to mana leak/ counterspell though, imo thats not even the same role that it plays. The fact that it has a slim potential to have a similar effect is just an added bonus but not its role when put in the deck.
I can see why people are tentative to accept a single deprive, it has that text that tends to just make u nervous. in regards to the path to exile comparison I made earlier I just thought that maybe since we don't play Path to exile we could afford to pay the "mana/tempo tax" that UWR and Esper pays currently to play that spell themselves. This is my theory anyways, (i'm guessing this is why they don't play a full playset of paths usually).
For what its worth i cast it on turn 2 vs affinity to counter their master of etherium, it actually wasn't even that bad tbh I just bounced an island (where i could see it being really bad is if you had to bounce a cipt land, but I've never had to do that since I dont play that many of those.) I also play 3 sulfur falls though and those I can usually just have come back down untapped. But yeah the idea behind that card is as a 1 of ideally you wont see it much in the early parts of the game.
perhaps a deck could play 1 deprive and 1 logic knot (shaving a dig might be worth it?). one of's are something im not a fan of in general tbh, if I want counterspell though that sounds like the compromises I would have to make to just play 2 of them in a deck lol. Man why does wizards have to make us jump through hoops for something we should already be able to play 4 of. not cool wotc.
p.s if you wanna go real deep with that colorless thing you could always try Desert Lol :). not sure id recommend it though..
As far has hard counters go, as long as you're playing something like Thought Scour or Forbidden Alchemy, I have found Logic Knot to be an acceptable card as a one-of.
Logic Knot is perfectly reasonable as a two of in a deck, even with a DTT, and you don't need to be wasting cards with Thought Scour to fill your GY. I don't understand control decks pitching what could be useful cards to the GY just to be able to cast other cards they may or may not have in their hand. Don't forget that it gives you two options for X, your mana, or graveyard fodder. Its the closest thing to a 2cmc hard counter in modern. I don't run anything to fill my GY and I rarely ever have to tap mana for X.
logic knot is great but the problem is if you have that much delve fuel to spare don't you just want to be playing more dig through times instead? regarding thought scour, are you not concerned if it hits ur batterskull or w.e win con u play? For this reason I think I prefer Forbidden Alchemy.
Your win-con is inevitability. Milling a "win-con" only means you're a bit slower at closing out the game. If you mill a CU, you can flash it back with a snap. If none of those options are open, you can kill them with man-lands. Compared to standard, you have a lot of options to kill people with in this format while piloting a control deck.
I like remand as well (i've been a proponent of it for a long time now), I don't think people should compare it to mana leak/ counterspell though, imo thats not even the same role that it plays. The fact that it has a slim potential to have a similar effect is just an added bonus but not its role when put in the deck.
Logic Knot is perfectly reasonable as a two of in a deck, even with a DTT, and you don't need to be wasting cards with Thought Scour to fill your GY. I don't understand control decks pitching what could be useful cards to the GY just to be able to cast other cards they may or may not have in their hand.
Thought Scour provides delve fuel, Snapcaster Mage fuel, and can-trips at instant speed -- which the deck desperately needs. So the card replaces itself and provides incremental value which you leverage later in the game. As mentioned previously, looking at cards in your graveyard as wasted is probably incorrect given that you're going to be ultilizing them in some way later in the game. If you want to read up on this, Innistrad standard era control decks had a lot of value they gained by having cards in their GY.
A card is more valuable to me in the graveyard rather than hidden in the library. You can get most spells back with Snapcaster Mage and you can get random creatures back with Cruel Ultimatum. There are few things better than getting back a Clique with a CU and cylcing away the chaff you drew off of CU (you've probably already won since you cast CU but w/e).
I'd advocate for Thought Scour over Forbidden Alchemy given the mana cost. 3 mana for a can-trip that does similar (but better) things than a 1 cmc can-trip isn't quite worth it in a field of Delver and burn. You lose to Burn and Delver in the first few turns and if you're spending time looking for an answer by turn 3 -- you're probably already dead (unless, of course, you hit the sweeper and don't die to their EOT burn spells).
As an aside on the Delver MU, Forbidden Alchemy is much spicer counterspell fodder for Delver given the amount of mana you sank into it. For them, it's sort of like when they see Storm player go to loot with a spell, sinc they know the storm player is looking for fuel -- deprive them of the fuel and they lose the game. Thought Scour is much less inocuous and provides them with less value out of their Spell Pierces and Dispels (1cmc trade for 1cmc; fair trade). But I suppose that's only a minor thing and doesn't actually distinguish what's important about both Forbidden Alchemy and Thought Scour (the cmc).
In sum, you have plenty of ways to get useful cards back from your graveyard -- or at least use them to fuel your gameplan in some way. I don't fret over milling a Batterskull since I know that I can kill them with manlands or Cruel Ultimatum and burn.
Well, I lost pretty horribly to Zoo and Sultai midrange (plays similarly to Jund) last night. Part of this was the result of sleep deprivation and resulting misplays. It turns out that on the play, turn 1 thoughtscour milling bitterblossom and land, into a turn 2 Tarmogoyf is pretty good if you don't run/have the spell snare.
I have found that my current configuration (posted a couple of pages back) has been great against delver and burn but I am losing miserably to early (non delver) creature decks.
How do you feel about bringing in rakdos charm against tarmo, knight of the reliquary, and delve (treasure cruise) strategies? I already have them in the board for pod and twin.
Couldn't find a reason not to play a filter land nor the Dreadship Reef.
This looks a bit more like a deck aimed to drag the game to the turn I can start chaining Ultimatums, but I can't tell if that's good enough.
I really like Mystical Teachings, and the aspect it brings to the deck. Teachings for Snapcaster is nasty.
I like the dreadship reef and sunken ruins but I am also running a reflecting pool.
You have a lot of card draw/selection but it feels like your permission might be a little lacking.
Regarding mystical teachings, you can see on pages 91 and 94 where my deck list has evolved since I have started building/playing and the feedback that I have received.
I like the dreadship reef and sunken ruins but I am also running a reflecting pool.
You have a lot of card draw/selection but it feels like your permission might be a little lacking.
Regarding mystical teachings, you can see on pages 91 and 94 where my deck list has evolved since I have started building/playing and the feedback that I have received.
Thanks for the heads up!
I'll get to read from page 91 - just read a bit of the beginning and a couple random pages in between before 95 and 96.
About permission, what would you recommend? A couple Mana Leaks?
I am running mana leaks as a 4 of. The thoughtscour does accelerate your digs but it feels a little reckless to me. I would cut these for mana leaks. If you want the 1 cmc cantrip, consider serum visions.
Thought Scour is not reckless as you can recur all of your wincons -- outside of manlands. Getting stuck with a delve card that you can't cast for 2-4 turns is.
Mana Leak is a fine card but is pretty bad on the draw and is atrocious against B/G/x decks -- unless they're dumb and just run into them, then they're great.
I'm aboard the train of thought where you can run 1 of the above cards (maybe 2 since with 26 lands you can run some colorless land slots) but definitely not all 3.
I agree, they aren't bad lands by any stretch, dreadship reef has the potential to give u loads of mana, but it comes very slowly and this format most of the time won't really give you time to produce significant advantages with that mana without more time than you have to do so. Also generally theres just better lands to be running if you can afford to run colorless lands in your deck, like tec edge ghost quarter or even lighthouse. id rather run those before i'd run a reef. sunken ruins is pretty sweet though and the ONLY reason i say that is because of cards like choke haters be hatin' with that card lately and the more sunken ruins and sulfur falls your deck has the safer generally you are to being choked out. Despite that I wouldn't recommend more than 1 sunken ruins and no more than 3 sulfur falls, i've found that more than that and it starts to get dicey pretty quick.
teachings is such a sick card lol, i wish the formant was slow enough to play teaching control I remember teachings for suffer the past was so sick, now its significantly worse thanks to delve cards running rampant.
Hatebears MU is all about if they draw Aether vial early or not. If not, you're heavily favored, if they did then you really have to know how to play around all their disruption which, for someone who hasn't played the MU a lot you're probably going to get stomped. I had a friend who played only Hatebears / DnT, and the MU was very dependent on who won the dice roll, and if he had an early Vial.
I've also considered changing the 3x Volcanic fallout and 1x Thoughtsieze. The update would be 2x Anger of the Gods and 2x Explosive Engineering.
BWBAthreos, God of PassageBWB (Shadowborn Clerics)
BWBAthreos, God of PassageBWB (Shadowborn Clerics)
3
It lets us leave mana open for other 1 mana plays, which is fantastic. You don't get the card selection of Serum Visions but cheap and early Dig Through Time is somewhat necessary for this deck.
Also I've been playing more and more with the Forbidden Alchemy and after testing more it just seemed really poor to have so many digs in hand with not enough delve fuel so I upped the count of Fa's to 3 and that felt a lot better than just playing with 2. Mana leak is such an annoying card though I kept getting punished because in the lategame it would just be such a dead card... it just feels like mana curves in modern have gotten a lot smaller thanks to things like treasure cruise so in the later parts of the game if they have a dangerous 1-3 mana card it just feels like we cant counter it, same thing with treasure cruise it is so hard to counter that 1 mana spell with mana leak... (dont even get me started with how bad mana leak is vs ramp decks..)
I've had to resort to playing a single copy of Deprive (always despised this card because it just teases you for wanting to play counterspell ) anyway this card has actually been such a good card in my experience. I would recommend others give it a shot I wouldn't play that many but I think this card definitely should be considered because to me it has synergy with dig through time decks. In standard U/B control for instance you just want to dig into hard counter dissolve and hard removal hero's downfall in the later parts of the game, we do have cryptics but these are much more expensive to cast than terminates (which are already a bit expensive compared to path to exile) and most decks only run 3 so its not as reliable to grab with dig. This is why i like deprive in a dig control deck because it lets you dig into a hard counter when your mana is constrained ( in a pinch ). Just sayin' every single time i saw this card it was like seeing a tank of ice cold water after 40 years of dehydration in a desert.
Dig Through Time is definitely better than Sphinx's Revelation in most cases. I considered not running Cruel Ultimatum as well but I think it's just too powerful to not include at least 1 copy.
Deprive has always intrigued me but I'm not really sold on it. Early game it seems like it really hinders you, and late game you're in a position where you could afford to cast Counterflux or Dissolve instead.
Unrelated I think also we should be playing 3 spell snares, its kind of difficult to fit in the deck but I think its positioned really well these days, especially given how popular remand is since remanding a cruise/dig is big game these days snaring the remand can be pretty awesome (same with mana leak sometimes), not to mention I think its good against voice of resurgence and I know im not the only one who hates that card..
In respect to flavor, yes.
In respect to being kind to your mana base, no.
I really don't like Deprive, out of respect of keeping our mana intact. To plow through UR Delvers counters, you need to leverage your mana and Deprive won't necessarily get us there.
As a singleton it's probably fine -- maybe even great -- but it has a high amount of variance that I find unappealling.
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I actively don't understand the dislike of Remand in this thread. It's a cantrip that hits land drops -- which we need to do. It's also easier to cast than Shadow of Doubt. You want to hit your land drops and be able to set up a timely Cruel Ultimatum or Batterskull. I understand what you mean when you say, "but it doesn't hard counter," but you have to accept that you need cards that say "Draw a card" in your deck. This lets you set up more expensive counters and the mana for things down the road. As a control deck, you want to be able to deal with things efficiently and Remand lets you deal with things with a developed mana base (i.e. Remand, untap, play land, hold up two spells or one expensive one), rather than sitting on your hands waiting for Wizards to reprint Counterspell in the current meta.
As far has hard counters go, as long as you're playing something like Thought Scour or Forbidden Alchemy, I have found Logic Knot to be an acceptable card as a one-of.
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I do enjoy the current meta where you don't really need Tectonic Edge to function as a control deck (really, Gavony Township is probably the biggest concern). With this freedom, I've taken liberties to mess around with cards like Desolate Lighthouse, which is another great Dig Through Time fueler.
I like remand as well (i've been a proponent of it for a long time now), I don't think people should compare it to mana leak/ counterspell though, imo thats not even the same role that it plays. The fact that it has a slim potential to have a similar effect is just an added bonus but not its role when put in the deck.
I can see why people are tentative to accept a single deprive, it has that text that tends to just make u nervous. in regards to the path to exile comparison I made earlier I just thought that maybe since we don't play Path to exile we could afford to pay the "mana/tempo tax" that UWR and Esper pays currently to play that spell themselves. This is my theory anyways, (i'm guessing this is why they don't play a full playset of paths usually).
For what its worth i cast it on turn 2 vs affinity to counter their master of etherium, it actually wasn't even that bad tbh I just bounced an island (where i could see it being really bad is if you had to bounce a cipt land, but I've never had to do that since I dont play that many of those.) I also play 3 sulfur falls though and those I can usually just have come back down untapped. But yeah the idea behind that card is as a 1 of ideally you wont see it much in the early parts of the game.
perhaps a deck could play 1 deprive and 1 logic knot (shaving a dig might be worth it?). one of's are something im not a fan of in general tbh, if I want counterspell though that sounds like the compromises I would have to make to just play 2 of them in a deck lol. Man why does wizards have to make us jump through hoops for something we should already be able to play 4 of. not cool wotc.
p.s if you wanna go real deep with that colorless thing you could always try Desert Lol :). not sure id recommend it though..
Logic Knot is perfectly reasonable as a two of in a deck, even with a DTT, and you don't need to be wasting cards with Thought Scour to fill your GY. I don't understand control decks pitching what could be useful cards to the GY just to be able to cast other cards they may or may not have in their hand. Don't forget that it gives you two options for X, your mana, or graveyard fodder. Its the closest thing to a 2cmc hard counter in modern. I don't run anything to fill my GY and I rarely ever have to tap mana for X.
2x Remand
2x Logic Knot
Your win-con is inevitability. Milling a "win-con" only means you're a bit slower at closing out the game. If you mill a CU, you can flash it back with a snap. If none of those options are open, you can kill them with man-lands. Compared to standard, you have a lot of options to kill people with in this format while piloting a control deck.
I concur.
Thought Scour provides delve fuel, Snapcaster Mage fuel, and can-trips at instant speed -- which the deck desperately needs. So the card replaces itself and provides incremental value which you leverage later in the game. As mentioned previously, looking at cards in your graveyard as wasted is probably incorrect given that you're going to be ultilizing them in some way later in the game. If you want to read up on this, Innistrad standard era control decks had a lot of value they gained by having cards in their GY.
A card is more valuable to me in the graveyard rather than hidden in the library. You can get most spells back with Snapcaster Mage and you can get random creatures back with Cruel Ultimatum. There are few things better than getting back a Clique with a CU and cylcing away the chaff you drew off of CU (you've probably already won since you cast CU but w/e).
I'd advocate for Thought Scour over Forbidden Alchemy given the mana cost. 3 mana for a can-trip that does similar (but better) things than a 1 cmc can-trip isn't quite worth it in a field of Delver and burn. You lose to Burn and Delver in the first few turns and if you're spending time looking for an answer by turn 3 -- you're probably already dead (unless, of course, you hit the sweeper and don't die to their EOT burn spells).
As an aside on the Delver MU, Forbidden Alchemy is much spicer counterspell fodder for Delver given the amount of mana you sank into it. For them, it's sort of like when they see Storm player go to loot with a spell, sinc they know the storm player is looking for fuel -- deprive them of the fuel and they lose the game. Thought Scour is much less inocuous and provides them with less value out of their Spell Pierces and Dispels (1cmc trade for 1cmc; fair trade). But I suppose that's only a minor thing and doesn't actually distinguish what's important about both Forbidden Alchemy and Thought Scour (the cmc).
In sum, you have plenty of ways to get useful cards back from your graveyard -- or at least use them to fuel your gameplan in some way. I don't fret over milling a Batterskull since I know that I can kill them with manlands or Cruel Ultimatum and burn.
1x Vendilion Clique
1x Batterskull
2x Remand
1x Mana Leak
4x Thought Scour
4x Lightning Bolt
1x Logic Knot
2x Terminate
3x Dig Through Time
1x Damnation
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Cryptic Command
1x Cruel Ultimatum
3x Electrolyze
2x Spell Snare
2x Lavaclaw Reaches
2x Steam Vents
1x Watery Grave
1x Blood Crypt
1x Sulfur Falls
1x Drowned Catacomb
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Polluted Delta
1x Bloodstained Mire
4x Island
1x Swamp
1x Desolate Lighthouse
I have found that my current configuration (posted a couple of pages back) has been great against delver and burn but I am losing miserably to early (non delver) creature decks.
How do you feel about bringing in rakdos charm against tarmo, knight of the reliquary, and delve (treasure cruise) strategies? I already have them in the board for pod and twin.
BWBAthreos, God of PassageBWB (Shadowborn Clerics)
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
2 Watery Grave
1 Blood Crypt
3 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Dreadship Reef
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
4 Island
3 Snapcaster Mage
//Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Thought Scour
3 Spell Snare
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Remand
1 Condescend
3 Terminate
1 Mystical Teachings
1 Damnation
3 Cryptic Command
2 Cruel Ultimatum
3 Dig Through Time
Couldn't find a reason not to play a filter land nor the Dreadship Reef.
This looks a bit more like a deck aimed to drag the game to the turn I can start chaining Ultimatums, but I can't tell if that's good enough.
I really like Mystical Teachings, and the aspect it brings to the deck. Teachings for Snapcaster is nasty.
Thinking of adding 2x Pyroclasm to the maindeck.
I like the dreadship reef and sunken ruins but I am also running a reflecting pool.
You have a lot of card draw/selection but it feels like your permission might be a little lacking.
Regarding mystical teachings, you can see on pages 91 and 94 where my deck list has evolved since I have started building/playing and the feedback that I have received.
BWBAthreos, God of PassageBWB (Shadowborn Clerics)
Thanks for the heads up!
I'll get to read from page 91 - just read a bit of the beginning and a couple random pages in between before 95 and 96.
About permission, what would you recommend? A couple Mana Leaks?
BWBAthreos, God of PassageBWB (Shadowborn Clerics)
Thought Scour is not reckless as you can recur all of your wincons -- outside of manlands. Getting stuck with a delve card that you can't cast for 2-4 turns is.
Mana Leak is a fine card but is pretty bad on the draw and is atrocious against B/G/x decks -- unless they're dumb and just run into them, then they're great.
Cards like Dreadship Reef, Reflecting Pool, and Sunken Ruins are all cool, however they come at a huge cost if you try to run them together.
I'm aboard the train of thought where you can run 1 of the above cards (maybe 2 since with 26 lands you can run some colorless land slots) but definitely not all 3.
Nothing like a t1 Dreadship Reef, t2 Sunken Ruins.
teachings is such a sick card lol, i wish the formant was slow enough to play teaching control I remember teachings for suffer the past was so sick, now its significantly worse thanks to delve cards running rampant.