GQ i'd say is very comparable to tec edge, its a land I like a lot. Regarding manabases some players get greedy on the number of blue needed for t4 cryptic and im wondering now if its ok to shave a few blue. Mainly I say this because of the other similar modern deck that plays cryptic UWR control, shaun mclaren's winning list from PT Born of the Gods running only 19 blue sources, and 13 red. (link for reference purposes: http://archive.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/deck/1436 ).
If that low # of blue and red sources is greedy but passable, then something like this manabase could potentially work i think:
Blue:19 Black:16 Red:13
note: # of tec edges are a flex spot that could be replaced with ghost quarters or more fixing depending on ur pref. Also I guess the mana also depends some amount on your particular build of course.
I've been looking to get into Cruel Control for a while now. I have a full set of each of the appropriate Shock Lands and Check Lands (whatever the M10 and Innistrad lands are called) as well as a few things here and there (such as a Creeping Tar Pit and several Cruel Ultimatums).
For someone buying into the deck, what are the key cards that are ubiquitous amongst as many versions of the deck as possible? In other words, what should be the first cards on my shopping list if I'm looking to build the deck a bit at a time?
For someone buying into the deck, what are the key cards that are ubiquitous amongst as many versions of the deck as possible? In other words, what should be the first cards on my shopping list if I'm looking to build the deck a bit at a time?
Snapcaster Mage's then Cryptic Commands, but unfortunately they are not cheap. The rest of the deck is pretty cheap and easy to acquire. I wouldn't go any less than 3 of each of those.
For someone buying into the deck, what are the key cards that are ubiquitous amongst as many versions of the deck as possible? In other words, what should be the first cards on my shopping list if I'm looking to build the deck a bit at a time?
Snapcaster Mage's then Cryptic Commands, but unfortunately they are not cheap. The rest of the deck is pretty cheap and easy to acquire. I wouldn't go any less than 3 of each of those.
Thanks. That's pretty much what I figured. And, if we're being honest, those two cards tend to be pretty useful in any given Modern deck with Blue in them, so if I'm in it for the long run then they're going to be sound investments.
This deck is about to get much better with the 2 new on colour fetches, but I have been playing it without cruel ultimatum lately. Instead of the 2 seven mana sorceries, I have been running one Keranos, God of Storms and one batterskull as finishers. Both are easier to play through a Blood Moon. Both are better if you are behind. Both come down the turn after you Cryptic counter/bounce. I think this deck has a very good chance to establish itself as a modern control staple.
This deck is about to get much better with the 2 new on colour fetches, but I have been playing it without cruel ultimatum lately. Instead of the 2 seven mana sorceries, I have been running one Keranos, God of Storms and one batterskull as finishers. Both are easier to play through a Blood Moon. Both are better if you are behind. Both come down the turn after you Cryptic counter/bounce. I think this deck has a very good chance to establish itself as a modern control staple.
Yep, I've been thinking the same thing. I have all the cards to play a UR Twin, UR Delver/Pyromancer, and Cruel Control. The only time I've used Keranos though was in the Twin deck as a sideboard option. Brought in 2 of him and 2 Batterskulls essentially replacing the Twins to throw the opponent off. They've worked out very well in this case. I've been wanting to try it in the Cruel deck too.
I like the various ideas coming out of these discussions. I do agree with the "zero colorless lands if playing ultimatum" crowd. However, I still think we don't need ultimatum to be our win con. I instead we can paint the town black! *evil laugh* with this: empty the pits! This is a card that can be easily built around while still keeping a "control" game. Support cards like mystical teachings, forbidden alchemy, and thought scour can all fuel Empty and Tiago. This would also allow us to run Desolate Lighthouse and potentially tec edge and company. I'll draw up a list a little later, but this looks like it has a lot of potential!
It's just a way worse white sun's zenith. No recursiveness and can lead to a huge blowout (from having have your lib exiled when it gets remanded) making it a basket I would never in a million years put my eggs in. Would just be a bad esper teachings list
i have to agree, although i did like that quadruple black spell a lot, but then i saw the zombies come in tapped, which i know isnt the hugest or anything but ever since that its looking worse and worse for reason after reason. it had potential but also in modern putting ur eggs in ur graveyard is not a sound strategy. theres pleeenty of gy hate.
i have to agree, although i did like that quadruple black spell a lot, but then i saw the zombies come in tapped, which i know isnt the hugest or anything but ever since that its looking worse and worse for reason after reason. it had potential but also in modern putting ur eggs in ur graveyard is not a sound strategy. theres pleeenty of gy hate.
It doesn't really matter that the enter tapped because its an instant.
mhm, but what if your opponent has a lot of creatures attacking you, ambushing them would be great with ur army but since they enter tapped you can never ambush them.
Another potential reason to run Batterskull main deck. Adamant Negation
Actually, I realized it still only counters non-creature spells. So probably not good in our deck, maybe good in a tarmo deck.
Pearl Lake Ancient is tutorable with teachings though, so that has potential.
I'd run Batterskull because it's good. Adamant Negation is not a good card and shouldn't even be considered for our deck.
While Pearl Lake Ancient is tutorable with teachings, it's still a lackluster card in that it does not win the game on the spot. Modern is a Turn 4 format, and things that are played at 5+ need to win on the spot. Batterskull/Wurmcoil are useable because resolving one is essentially a win vs fair decks, while a card like Keranos is usable because it generates card advantage over time in the grindy matchups it matters in.
I was hoping to post a list today but I'm still working on fitting in Think Twice in the main and Crucible of Worlds in the side. I hope to have something definitive to post by the end of the week.
While Pearl Lake Ancient is tutorable with teachings, it's still a lackluster card in that it does not win the game on the spot. Modern is a Turn 4 format, and things that are played at 5+ need to win on the spot. Batterskull/Wurmcoil are useable because resolving one is essentially a win vs fair decks, while a card like Keranos is usable because it generates card advantage over time in the grindy matchups it matters in.
I was hoping to post a list today but I'm still working on fitting in Think Twice in the main and Crucible of Worlds in the side. I hope to have something definitive to post by the end of the week.
I admit I misread and over estimated Adament Negation, but stating that Pearl Lake Ancient is lack luster because it doesn't win on the spot is a weak argument. No cards in our deck win on the spot. If you want a turn 4 or 5 on the spot win you should switch to Twin or Pod. Keranos was questionable when it was first spoiled too, and yes it is a powerhouse in the grindy matchups. Ancient is uncounterable, so its pretty much guaranteed to hit the board on the opponents end step on turn 7, then you can protect it with all your mana up on your turn. The only thing to stop it is a Path to Exile after it resolves, but Wurmcoil is just as susceptible. I'm not saying its the holy grail answer or anything, just that it could be a very relevant sideboard card, especially in a deck that can tutor it. I can't count how many times I've failed to find a Batterskull when I needed it. Teachings increases your odds of finding a winner.
Hey, looking at my stuff, I've found a really interesting card to add to sideboard. Mimic Vat
Costs 3, oozes any graveyard strategy (i.e. Melira Pod) and gives you some extra threats. It's never dead since we run a lot of removal, and it's possible to have a Snapcaster Mage, a Vendillion Clique in there, hell, even a killed Creeping Tar Pit isn't bad. That makes me wanna play some Fulminator Mage along with that. Evil Evil plans.
If that low # of blue and red sources is greedy but passable, then something like this manabase could potentially work i think:
4 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
2 Steam Vents
1 Blood Crypt
2 Watery Grave
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Swamp
2 Island
1 Mountain
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Sulfur Falls
Blue:19 Black:16 Red:13
note: # of tec edges are a flex spot that could be replaced with ghost quarters or more fixing depending on ur pref. Also I guess the mana also depends some amount on your particular build of course.
For someone buying into the deck, what are the key cards that are ubiquitous amongst as many versions of the deck as possible? In other words, what should be the first cards on my shopping list if I'm looking to build the deck a bit at a time?
MT.
Snapcaster Mage's then Cryptic Commands, but unfortunately they are not cheap. The rest of the deck is pretty cheap and easy to acquire. I wouldn't go any less than 3 of each of those.
Thanks. That's pretty much what I figured. And, if we're being honest, those two cards tend to be pretty useful in any given Modern deck with Blue in them, so if I'm in it for the long run then they're going to be sound investments.
Thanks again.
MT.
Yes, I can see having a single miser copy of this in a deck similar to how a single copy of Suffer the Past can be used as a potential finisher.
Yep, I've been thinking the same thing. I have all the cards to play a UR Twin, UR Delver/Pyromancer, and Cruel Control. The only time I've used Keranos though was in the Twin deck as a sideboard option. Brought in 2 of him and 2 Batterskulls essentially replacing the Twins to throw the opponent off. They've worked out very well in this case. I've been wanting to try it in the Cruel deck too.
UWRUWR MidrangeUWR
BUGSultai MidrangeBUG
BUGRTraverse MidrangeBUGR (currently brewing)
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Spell Snare
1 Geth's Verdict
4 Mana Leak
2 Remand
2 Terminate
1 Dismember
3 Electrolyze
3 Cryptic Command
Sorceries
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
1 Cruel Ultimatum
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Batterskull
1 Keranos, God of Storms
Land
1 Blood Crypt
2 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Island
3 Mountain
3 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
3 Swamp
1 Watery Grave
2 Tectonic Edge
2 Rakdos Charm
2 Shadow of Doubt
2 Spellskite
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Counterflux
1 Hero's Downfall
1 Damnation
2 Consume the Meek
1 Keranos, God of Storms
It doesn't really matter that the enter tapped because its an instant.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Actually, I realized it still only counters non-creature spells. So probably not good in our deck, maybe good in a tarmo deck.
Pearl Lake Ancient is tutorable with teachings though, so that has potential.
I'd run Batterskull because it's good. Adamant Negation is not a good card and shouldn't even be considered for our deck.
While Pearl Lake Ancient is tutorable with teachings, it's still a lackluster card in that it does not win the game on the spot. Modern is a Turn 4 format, and things that are played at 5+ need to win on the spot. Batterskull/Wurmcoil are useable because resolving one is essentially a win vs fair decks, while a card like Keranos is usable because it generates card advantage over time in the grindy matchups it matters in.
I was hoping to post a list today but I'm still working on fitting in Think Twice in the main and Crucible of Worlds in the side. I hope to have something definitive to post by the end of the week.
Very welcoming and constructive comment, thanks for sharing!
I admit I misread and over estimated Adament Negation, but stating that Pearl Lake Ancient is lack luster because it doesn't win on the spot is a weak argument. No cards in our deck win on the spot. If you want a turn 4 or 5 on the spot win you should switch to Twin or Pod. Keranos was questionable when it was first spoiled too, and yes it is a powerhouse in the grindy matchups. Ancient is uncounterable, so its pretty much guaranteed to hit the board on the opponents end step on turn 7, then you can protect it with all your mana up on your turn. The only thing to stop it is a Path to Exile after it resolves, but Wurmcoil is just as susceptible. I'm not saying its the holy grail answer or anything, just that it could be a very relevant sideboard card, especially in a deck that can tutor it. I can't count how many times I've failed to find a Batterskull when I needed it. Teachings increases your odds of finding a winner.
Mimic Vat
Costs 3, oozes any graveyard strategy (i.e. Melira Pod) and gives you some extra threats. It's never dead since we run a lot of removal, and it's possible to have a Snapcaster Mage, a Vendillion Clique in there, hell, even a killed Creeping Tar Pit isn't bad. That makes me wanna play some Fulminator Mage along with that. Evil Evil plans.
Anyone tried this?