Dang, this is better than the evacuation I play in the side board.
edit: on a deck related note, try to keep at least 2 target opponent sacs a creature effects in the 75. gw auras killed me cause i didn't have a second one. consistently.
Dang, this is better than the evacuation I play in the side board.
edit: on a deck related note, try to keep at least 2 target opponent sacs a creature effects in the 75. gw auras killed me cause i didn't have a second one. consistently.
You Mean other than cruel ultimatum? Currently I'm running 1 Far/away MB as an extra edict with 3 snap casters and 2 Mystical teachings, but now im wondering if thats enough.
For black spot removal, I think you're always better off running edicts than anything else (terminate, doom blade, ect) since they bypass hexproof and protection effects, it's especially important against tron and infect.
We have devour flesh, geth's verdict, tribute to hunger and far // away
D flesh is meh, we have the backup gameplan of playing a counter burn game just like uwr with eot electrolyze, bolts, snapcaster/tar pit beats and imo the lifegain is very relevant.
Far // away and tribute are good in terms of raw power but that 3cmc cost is huge, electrolyze and snapcaster (into bolt, iok, snare) fill the 3 drop slot already. Also they are do nothing's against a lot of the unfair decks.
My preference is geth's verdict, the 1 damage dealt is relevant even if it seems miniscule, plus it comes with an edict effect. The one damage isn't much against a mill or UR storm deck for example, but it's better to have the 1 damage over the nothing that comes with terminate/dismember/gftt ect. The extra few points of damage netted from geth's verdict over other black spot removal feeds more into the backup counterburn gameplan. The only downside is the mana restriction, but I get around it by running 19-20 black sources with a couple of unique lands that aggressively fix mana (sunken ruins and urborg).
Your probably fine on your end with edicts I couldn't get snapcasters in time for the tournament so I ran creaturless. I had 3 games against auras.ist game one due to mana misplay and lost game three due to not getting a second edict. I only had one and no snaps so it was hopeless on turn 3.
edit: creul ultimatum is good against gw auras if you can even get to 7 mana.
I have only recently went about transforming my U/W control to Cruel Control. I have come up against boggles a few times in my meta, yet to lose but i think it was more luck in the last game when staring down a Boggle with 2x Ethereal armor Rancor hyena umbra and daybreak coronet by turn 3 i managed to top deck a miracled terminus from the side.
Im hoping the edicts will function in the same way. In removing their threats when they apply totem armors
Any suggestions for dealing with Hatebears? There are (no joke) three people running hatebears at my LGS and it's just awful, lol. One of them is playing Choke in the SB which can shut this deck down under the right circumstances. He also played something that said, "lands don't untap. During each player's untap step, that player may untap one land"
Any suggestions on dealing with such a high saturation of this deck? The rest of the meta includes 1 UWR, 1 Affinity, 1 Infect, 1 Goblin, 1 B/R Discard, 1 Amulet of Vigor Combo.
Any suggestions for dealing with Hatebears? There are (no joke) three people running hatebears at my LGS and it's just awful, lol. One of them is playing Choke in the SB which can shut this deck down under the right circumstances. He also played something that said, "lands don't untap. During each player's untap step, that player may untap one land"
Any suggestions on dealing with such a high saturation of this deck? The rest of the meta includes 1 UWR, 1 Affinity, 1 Infect, 1 Goblin, 1 B/R Discard, 1 Amulet of Vigor Combo.
I don't think that that second card that you mentioned is Modern-legal (Winter Orb). I have found that sweepers are really good against Hatebears.
Any suggestions for dealing with Hatebears? There are (no joke) three people running hatebears at my LGS and it's just awful, lol. One of them is playing Choke in the SB which can shut this deck down under the right circumstances. He also played something that said, "lands don't untap. During each player's untap step, that player may untap one land"
Any suggestions on dealing with such a high saturation of this deck? The rest of the meta includes 1 UWR, 1 Affinity, 1 Infect, 1 Goblin, 1 B/R Discard, 1 Amulet of Vigor Combo.
I don't think that that second card that you mentioned is Modern-legal (Winter Orb). I have found that sweepers are really good against Hatebears.
Any suggestions for dealing with Hatebears? There are (no joke) three people running hatebears at my LGS and it's just awful, lol. One of them is playing Choke in the SB which can shut this deck down under the right circumstances. He also played something that said, "lands don't untap. During each player's untap step, that player may untap one land"
Any suggestions on dealing with such a high saturation of this deck? The rest of the meta includes 1 UWR, 1 Affinity, 1 Infect, 1 Goblin, 1 B/R Discard, 1 Amulet of Vigor Combo.
I don't think that that second card that you mentioned is Modern-legal (Winter Orb). I have found that sweepers are really good against Hatebears.
It was Hokori. I couldn't remember the name and I couldn't find it in gatherer either, lol.
I was talking to a friend and I think we both agreed 2 Anger maindeck and 2 Anger sideboard, and like 3 Echoing Truth to bounce anything that makes it past counters. I'm also using a very meta-tailored list right now, since there is so much aggro. I was considering also running a couple spell pierce to get through the early game a little stronger by being able to counter their early plays (to complement Mana Leak).
I'll post my list later. Also, if anyone has any thoughts on dealing with B/R discard, that would be helpful too. It's a bit of a rough matchup. It's not really 8Rack, but it's similar. He runs Blightning, Prophetic Flamespeaker, Young Pyromancer, and lots of other discard spells. The creatures are no problem since he runs so few; they just die to any removal I have. The main issue is getting nailed with Inquisition, Thoughtseize, and Blightning turns 1-3. Usually Liliana is in there somewhere too. And since he runs 4 of each, plus Wrench Mind, it's pretty consistent in leaving me in topdeck mode by turn 3 or 4.
It was Hokori. I couldn't remember the name and I couldn't find it in gatherer either, lol.
I was talking to a friend and I think we both agreed 2 Anger maindeck and 2 Anger sideboard, and like 3 Echoing Truth to bounce anything that makes it past counters. I'm also using a very meta-tailored list right now, since there is so much aggro. I was considering also running a couple spell pierce to get through the early game a little stronger by being able to counter their early plays (to complement Mana Leak).
I'll post my list later. Also, if anyone has any thoughts on dealing with B/R discard, that would be helpful too. It's a bit of a rough matchup. It's not really 8Rack, but it's similar. He runs Blightning, Prophetic Flamespeaker, Young Pyromancer, and lots of other discard spells. The creatures are no problem since he runs so few; they just die to any removal I have. The main issue is getting nailed with Inquisition, Thoughtseize, and Blightning turns 1-3. Usually Liliana is in there somewhere too. And since he runs 4 of each, plus Wrench Mind, it's pretty consistent in leaving me in topdeck mode by turn 3 or 4.
You should be able to just run some sustainable forms of card advantage, focus on countering the spells will spell pierce and such and try to hit a keranos. You can also run Phryexian Arena to give u some good card advantage in the grindy matchups. Think Twice is pretty funny too, though not great
Think Twice has been nice because I can ditch it to Blightning or Wrench Mind to make the hit less painful and sometimes use it to draw an extra card in response so I have one more thing to choose from. I don't think I would run Phyrexian Arena alongside fetch lands and shock lands because I would risk as much as 4 damage per turn and that's just way too much.
Also, I'm not sure it's worth running Keranos. The only time I could feasibly cast him is on turn 7 (with Mana Leak mana open) when I should be casting Cruel Ultimatum instead. As far as pure card advantage goes, I would much rather be casting Cruel instead of Keranos. Also, I would never reach the devotion requirement to make him a creature. Granted, I still get his effect, which is really good, but I'm not convinced it's worth cutting another card for him.
Let me know what you guys think needs improvement. Again, please keep in mind that this deck is tailored to a the strong percentage of aggro decks in my meta (as in, all but two players run some form of aggro).
Notes on card choices: I'm testing Bolas after seeing the deck on MODO that placed using Bolas. I almost want to run 4 Spell Snare in the main but I'm not sure what to cut. I'm running 61 as it is. Also, no real reason for splitting Geth's Verdict/Devour Flesh. I just don't have two of either on-hand so I decided one of each will be fine. I wanted to snag a fourth Scalding Tarn and possibly throw in my Marsh Flats as well but considering the high density of hatebears, I decided to stick with 3 Tarn. Batterskull used to be relegated to the sideboard but I found in many situations I wanted him during game one to put pressure on the opponent and prevent myself from just getting blown out. I would like to include Damnation somewhere in the 75. Consume the Meek may be traded back in somehow before Thursday (unless I get a Damnation on Thursday). My singleton Clique was taken out because I wasn't particularly impressed with it. Would be nice to return with Cruel, however. It may find its way back in, too.
Sideboard: Echoing Truth, just to help the game against Hatebears and Amulet Combo. Both decks like to play multiples of their important artifacts/enchantments and Echoing Truth sets them back quite a bit. Chromatic Lantern, to undo Blood Moon, basically. Spell Pierce to help out in the early game against anything, really. EE for enchantment removal, mostly. Shatterstorm is a nice sweeper against Affinity and will leave them with nothing but lands. Counterflux is in here in case I come up against UWR to give me extra counter-power. Rakdos Charm for its sheer usability in a multitude of circumstances. This card won me a game against Hatebears a couple weeks ago. Pithing Needle is basically for Aether Vial and Mangara but has application elsewhere, of course. Anger of the Gods is basically a necessary 4-of game two against most decks in my meta. Running four allows me to be greedy with them and not be too reserved about dropping it to clear two creatures.
I am absolutely open to suggestions/discussion about my card choices! I have definitely thought out my choices but I think it is always wise to bounce one's ideas off of a community of players to get essential feedback into tailoring one's deck.
Some interesting choices main and board. Full 4 Spell Snare and a singleton Thoughtseize. I know Chromatic Lantern is an out for a resolved Blood Moon. But I have no idea what Commandeer is for.
I honestly could not understand many of the choices, other than the spellsnares and singleton seize, commandeer u've mentioned, inferno titan? wouldnt thundermaw hellkite do a better job? somebody plz enlighten me...
i recently discovered that some of my friends run 1-2 copies of Keranos, god of storm in their UWR control builds, and it improves their topdeck quality immensely since a resolved keranos cannot be answered by any main stream decks (other than RG Tron), I was wondering if that'd work for us as well, im going to experiment with 2 copies replacing my Steam Augury in my old build. Will start experimenting soon, but probably wont be able to put too many games in between my travels. Will post my list and how well it works (if it does...)
So, I've been using Cruel Control for nearly as long as it's existed (Lorwyn/Alara standard season) and I've begun writing down thoughts about the deck's history and potential future which may involve stepping out of the UWR shell that it is based on and moving forward in a different direction. Mainly, I've begun assessing the deck and making observations about its current incarnation and its past, and how to push the deck to be even better, which may include making some difficult cuts and additions to the deck in order to step up our game
I'm not a pro and I'm certainly not an expert but I have some ideas that I think are worth talking about at the very least. Rather than just puking them out for everyone to read, however, I would like to get a little bit of feedback beforehand in asking, first of all, if anyone is actually interested in hearing what I have to say.
So, is anyone interested in what I have to say? @magicman657, this is your primer; what do you think?
Formatting is my middle name, lol. The post is just lengthy and will probably step on toes so I don't want to just post it without warning and making sure that there are enough people open-minded and interested enough to consider my thoughts.
Here we go! Long post ahead but I encourage you all to read and give me feedback so we can continue to make this deck better!
So I've been thinking and I want to foster some more discussion regarding how this deck should continue evolving. I'm not an expert but I have been running Cruel Control since Lorwyn rotated and there are some things that I think we should consider. This deck has a long legacy of being a competitive powerhouse. It began in Lorwyn-era standard season as 4CC and 5CC, utilizing a combination of great counters, strong draw spells, flash creatures, and beefy Broodmates to seal the game. When the Cruel Ultimatum appeared in the Alara block, the deck changed to incorporate it. And since then, the deck has been evolving over time.
Modern is still a "new" format and I don't think we (as in the entire modern community, not just the Cruel Control group) have really considered all that it has to offer. So I want to explore some options/questions. Not all of these are necessarily things that I have thought through deeply and I have not tested all of my ideas. They are just thoughts that may warrant some exploration and consideration. I'm not advocating for anything in particular (yet), except thoughtful discussion and to maybe push the boundaries, a little.
First, I remember playing against Cruel Control during Lorwyn/Alara standard and the deck was just a powerhouse and had answers for everything, backbreaking threats, and many ways of generating card advantage. The primary advantage the deck had had at the time was the inclusion of white. Path to Exile, Wrath of God, Wall of Omens, and various other white cards were very strong plays during this era. So what I have been wondering is this: should we make some difficult cuts to include white as a fourth colour? There are undoubtedly advantages to be gained this way. I know someone will argue that our manabase is shaky as it is but I was considering that as well and would retort that during Lorwyn/Alara standard season, the available fixing was significantly worse than the options we have available to us. They did not have the benefit of fetch lands nor did they have the shock lands available to them. Their primary source of consistent mana fixing was in the Vivid lands. In modern, we have more ways to fix our mana than any standard format ever has.
Second, there are not many cards that have remained constant throughout this deck's history. Vendillion Clique, Cruel Ultimatum, and Cryptic Command are the only surviving vestiges of CC's glory days. This isn't necessarily a bad thing but I have been thinking about reconsidering some cards that used to be powerful and determining whether or not they are still worth consideration.
Third, this deck has two key struggles that I have observed over the past year or so. The first is that when enchantments hit the board, we have a really difficult dealing with them directly and so we often have to deal with them in a roundabout way by using Pithing Needle post-board, or bouncing them with Cryptic. The other struggle is against enemy planeswalkers. Most enemy planeswalkers do not just die to Bolt and we do not always have the resources to dedicate to destroying other walkers. In considering both of these things, I love that we can just counter/bounce or bounce/draw with Cryptic Command but that only delays the inevitable. And so, to deal with enchantments, I already suggested including white as a fourth color. Alternatively, if your meta has a high Hatebears saturation (like mine), Annul is a worthy option. To deal with planeswalkers, I think that Hero's Downfall is a great choice.
Last, there are three cards that have consistently underperformed (at least in my mind) in this deck and they all stem from the UWR shell that this incarnation of Cruel Contol came from. This is where I challenge the established order and risk getting flamed
Electrolyze: The cantrip and the division of of damage is nice and can be useful in certain situations but I have found the effect to be, overall, underwhelming. In a strictly UBR list, I think I would rather see Magma Jet every time. It's cheaper, does the same amount of damage (though it doesn't distribute), is less mana-dependent, and it scries for 2 which would allow us to fix the top of our deck for the next two turns, something that this deck just cannot do without Ponder and Preordain.
Think Twice: In looking at this card, it essentially says "3UU, Instant, Draw 2 cards. Exile Think Twice." If a card that looked like this showed up in, say, Khans of Tarkir, every blue player would shake their heads in disgust and pass over it. Honestly, I have never been particularly thrilled about Think Twice because I always felt that paying two mana to draw one card just isn't good. Paying three mana to draw one card is even worse. Even at instant speed and having the cost split between two turns, I've just never been excited to cast it and have never been able to say, "Boy, drawing that one card off of Think Twice really saved me that game!" I've seen Telling Time show up a few times in this thread and I think that it is a much better card. Sure, we still only draw one card but it's not a blind draw. We get to filter the top of our deck which is, again, something that we don't really get to do without Ponder and Preordain. If either of those cards were legal in Modern, they would replace Think Twice in a heartbeat; Telling Time is very similar to Preordain and is, in my opinion, a better choice than Think Twice.
The third card is probably really going to step on toes. It is Mana Leak. Don't get me wrong, I love this card more than any other counter in the early game (besides Spell Snare). But every time I draw it in the late game my first thought is, "Awesome! A counter that does almost nothing!" Generally, in the late game, your opponent will just pay the three mana. It may slow down your opponent and prevent him or her from playing something else that turn but I'm cheap and don't want to pay two mana for that. Unfortunately, there are no suitable replacements for Mana Leak besides Cancel. Unless of course we split between Essence Scatter and Negate or pick one based on our current meta but I don't want to do that
I know this post was long but if you read it, I appreciate it and would love feedback/discussion. This is by no means comprehensive or complete and I am sure there are other considerations to be made. These are, of course, just my own thoughts and opinions on how to continue making this deck better. If I'm crazy, great! Just let me know without being a jerk about it!
If you're suggesting Cancel you might as well use Dissipate. Remand is the only other option really. While its more for a tempo deck, aren't we just buying time until we can cast Cruel anyway?
@tilzinger: I'm not really suggesting Cancel. I didn't really make it clear I guess, lol. I also don't like Remand that much. I dunno. I cut Mana Leak entirely. I have a very experimental build that I'm going to test tomorrow that includes white.
I'm thinking boarding out creatures game 2 is probably a wise decision as my opponents will probably keep their removal in order to deal with the Nighthawks. This, of course, blanks their removal and puts them in a rough spot. I have no idea how this will play out but I will definitely post a report tomorrow night or Friday. I'm curious to see how Esper Charm works out. I've always loved that card in Cruel Control. Any feedback before tomorrow evening is appreciated, of course
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy: GBW Nic-Fit GBW UBRWG Dredge UBRWG
Modern: R RDW R UBW Esper Control UBW
EDH: BG Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord BG
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edit: on a deck related note, try to keep at least 2 target opponent sacs a creature effects in the 75. gw auras killed me cause i didn't have a second one. consistently.
You Mean other than cruel ultimatum? Currently I'm running 1 Far/away MB as an extra edict with 3 snap casters and 2 Mystical teachings, but now im wondering if thats enough.
We have devour flesh, geth's verdict, tribute to hunger and far // away
D flesh is meh, we have the backup gameplan of playing a counter burn game just like uwr with eot electrolyze, bolts, snapcaster/tar pit beats and imo the lifegain is very relevant.
Far // away and tribute are good in terms of raw power but that 3cmc cost is huge, electrolyze and snapcaster (into bolt, iok, snare) fill the 3 drop slot already. Also they are do nothing's against a lot of the unfair decks.
My preference is geth's verdict, the 1 damage dealt is relevant even if it seems miniscule, plus it comes with an edict effect. The one damage isn't much against a mill or UR storm deck for example, but it's better to have the 1 damage over the nothing that comes with terminate/dismember/gftt ect. The extra few points of damage netted from geth's verdict over other black spot removal feeds more into the backup counterburn gameplan. The only downside is the mana restriction, but I get around it by running 19-20 black sources with a couple of unique lands that aggressively fix mana (sunken ruins and urborg).
edit: creul ultimatum is good against gw auras if you can even get to 7 mana.
Im hoping the edicts will function in the same way. In removing their threats when they apply totem armors
Any suggestions on dealing with such a high saturation of this deck? The rest of the meta includes 1 UWR, 1 Affinity, 1 Infect, 1 Goblin, 1 B/R Discard, 1 Amulet of Vigor Combo.
GBW Nic-Fit GBW
UBRWG Dredge UBRWG
Modern:
R RDW R
UBW Esper Control UBW
EDH:
BG Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord BG
I don't think that that second card that you mentioned is Modern-legal (Winter Orb). I have found that sweepers are really good against Hatebears.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Yeah the only legal one I can think of is Hokori, Dust Drinker
My Trade Thread
It probably was that then.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I was talking to a friend and I think we both agreed 2 Anger maindeck and 2 Anger sideboard, and like 3 Echoing Truth to bounce anything that makes it past counters. I'm also using a very meta-tailored list right now, since there is so much aggro. I was considering also running a couple spell pierce to get through the early game a little stronger by being able to counter their early plays (to complement Mana Leak).
I'll post my list later. Also, if anyone has any thoughts on dealing with B/R discard, that would be helpful too. It's a bit of a rough matchup. It's not really 8Rack, but it's similar. He runs Blightning, Prophetic Flamespeaker, Young Pyromancer, and lots of other discard spells. The creatures are no problem since he runs so few; they just die to any removal I have. The main issue is getting nailed with Inquisition, Thoughtseize, and Blightning turns 1-3. Usually Liliana is in there somewhere too. And since he runs 4 of each, plus Wrench Mind, it's pretty consistent in leaving me in topdeck mode by turn 3 or 4.
GBW Nic-Fit GBW
UBRWG Dredge UBRWG
Modern:
R RDW R
UBW Esper Control UBW
EDH:
BG Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord BG
You should be able to just run some sustainable forms of card advantage, focus on countering the spells will spell pierce and such and try to hit a keranos. You can also run Phryexian Arena to give u some good card advantage in the grindy matchups. Think Twice is pretty funny too, though not great
My Trade Thread
Think Twice has been nice because I can ditch it to Blightning or Wrench Mind to make the hit less painful and sometimes use it to draw an extra card in response so I have one more thing to choose from. I don't think I would run Phyrexian Arena alongside fetch lands and shock lands because I would risk as much as 4 damage per turn and that's just way too much.
Also, I'm not sure it's worth running Keranos. The only time I could feasibly cast him is on turn 7 (with Mana Leak mana open) when I should be casting Cruel Ultimatum instead. As far as pure card advantage goes, I would much rather be casting Cruel instead of Keranos. Also, I would never reach the devotion requirement to make him a creature. Granted, I still get his effect, which is really good, but I'm not convinced it's worth cutting another card for him.
Anyway, as promised, here is my list:
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Batterskull
Instants 22
3 Think Twice
3 Spell Snare
3 Mana Leak
3 Cryptic Command
2 Electrolyze
2 Terminate
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Devour Flesh
1 Geth's Verdict
Sorceries 8
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Cruel Ultimatum
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
Land 26
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Blood Crypt
2 Drowned Catacomb
2 Steam Vents
2 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Watery Grave
2 Sulfur Falls
1 Molten Slagheap
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
3 Island
2 Echoing Truth
1 Chromatic Lantern
2 Spell Pierce
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Shatterstorm
2 Counterflux
2 Rakdos Charm
2 Pithing Needle
2 Anger of the Gods
Let me know what you guys think needs improvement. Again, please keep in mind that this deck is tailored to a the strong percentage of aggro decks in my meta (as in, all but two players run some form of aggro).
Notes on card choices: I'm testing Bolas after seeing the deck on MODO that placed using Bolas. I almost want to run 4 Spell Snare in the main but I'm not sure what to cut. I'm running 61 as it is. Also, no real reason for splitting Geth's Verdict/Devour Flesh. I just don't have two of either on-hand so I decided one of each will be fine. I wanted to snag a fourth Scalding Tarn and possibly throw in my Marsh Flats as well but considering the high density of hatebears, I decided to stick with 3 Tarn. Batterskull used to be relegated to the sideboard but I found in many situations I wanted him during game one to put pressure on the opponent and prevent myself from just getting blown out. I would like to include Damnation somewhere in the 75. Consume the Meek may be traded back in somehow before Thursday (unless I get a Damnation on Thursday). My singleton Clique was taken out because I wasn't particularly impressed with it. Would be nice to return with Cruel, however. It may find its way back in, too.
Sideboard: Echoing Truth, just to help the game against Hatebears and Amulet Combo. Both decks like to play multiples of their important artifacts/enchantments and Echoing Truth sets them back quite a bit. Chromatic Lantern, to undo Blood Moon, basically. Spell Pierce to help out in the early game against anything, really. EE for enchantment removal, mostly. Shatterstorm is a nice sweeper against Affinity and will leave them with nothing but lands. Counterflux is in here in case I come up against UWR to give me extra counter-power. Rakdos Charm for its sheer usability in a multitude of circumstances. This card won me a game against Hatebears a couple weeks ago. Pithing Needle is basically for Aether Vial and Mangara but has application elsewhere, of course. Anger of the Gods is basically a necessary 4-of game two against most decks in my meta. Running four allows me to be greedy with them and not be too reserved about dropping it to clear two creatures.
I am absolutely open to suggestions/discussion about my card choices! I have definitely thought out my choices but I think it is always wise to bounce one's ideas off of a community of players to get essential feedback into tailoring one's deck.
GBW Nic-Fit GBW
UBRWG Dredge UBRWG
Modern:
R RDW R
UBW Esper Control UBW
EDH:
BG Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord BG
I honestly could not understand many of the choices, other than the spellsnares and singleton seize, commandeer u've mentioned, inferno titan? wouldnt thundermaw hellkite do a better job? somebody plz enlighten me...
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
So, I've been using Cruel Control for nearly as long as it's existed (Lorwyn/Alara standard season) and I've begun writing down thoughts about the deck's history and potential future which may involve stepping out of the UWR shell that it is based on and moving forward in a different direction. Mainly, I've begun assessing the deck and making observations about its current incarnation and its past, and how to push the deck to be even better, which may include making some difficult cuts and additions to the deck in order to step up our game
I'm not a pro and I'm certainly not an expert but I have some ideas that I think are worth talking about at the very least. Rather than just puking them out for everyone to read, however, I would like to get a little bit of feedback beforehand in asking, first of all, if anyone is actually interested in hearing what I have to say.
So, is anyone interested in what I have to say? @magicman657, this is your primer; what do you think?
GBW Nic-Fit GBW
UBRWG Dredge UBRWG
Modern:
R RDW R
UBW Esper Control UBW
EDH:
BG Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord BG
GBW Nic-Fit GBW
UBRWG Dredge UBRWG
Modern:
R RDW R
UBW Esper Control UBW
EDH:
BG Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord BG
So I've been thinking and I want to foster some more discussion regarding how this deck should continue evolving. I'm not an expert but I have been running Cruel Control since Lorwyn rotated and there are some things that I think we should consider. This deck has a long legacy of being a competitive powerhouse. It began in Lorwyn-era standard season as 4CC and 5CC, utilizing a combination of great counters, strong draw spells, flash creatures, and beefy Broodmates to seal the game. When the Cruel Ultimatum appeared in the Alara block, the deck changed to incorporate it. And since then, the deck has been evolving over time.
Modern is still a "new" format and I don't think we (as in the entire modern community, not just the Cruel Control group) have really considered all that it has to offer. So I want to explore some options/questions. Not all of these are necessarily things that I have thought through deeply and I have not tested all of my ideas. They are just thoughts that may warrant some exploration and consideration. I'm not advocating for anything in particular (yet), except thoughtful discussion and to maybe push the boundaries, a little.
First, I remember playing against Cruel Control during Lorwyn/Alara standard and the deck was just a powerhouse and had answers for everything, backbreaking threats, and many ways of generating card advantage. The primary advantage the deck had had at the time was the inclusion of white. Path to Exile, Wrath of God, Wall of Omens, and various other white cards were very strong plays during this era. So what I have been wondering is this: should we make some difficult cuts to include white as a fourth colour? There are undoubtedly advantages to be gained this way. I know someone will argue that our manabase is shaky as it is but I was considering that as well and would retort that during Lorwyn/Alara standard season, the available fixing was significantly worse than the options we have available to us. They did not have the benefit of fetch lands nor did they have the shock lands available to them. Their primary source of consistent mana fixing was in the Vivid lands. In modern, we have more ways to fix our mana than any standard format ever has.
Considerations for white: Baneslayer Angel, Wall of Omens (cantrip!), Path to Exile, Celestial Colonnade, Wrath of God, Day of Judgment, Supreme Verdict, Wall of Reverence (plays well with Clique but would ask for a more midrange or tapout style build, I think), pretty much any Elspeth, and anything that deals with enchantments directly, such as Esper Charm. Plumeveil was also a pretty powerful card to flash in and block hard-hitters. Also, white has many sideboard options for us.
Second, there are not many cards that have remained constant throughout this deck's history. Vendillion Clique, Cruel Ultimatum, and Cryptic Command are the only surviving vestiges of CC's glory days. This isn't necessarily a bad thing but I have been thinking about reconsidering some cards that used to be powerful and determining whether or not they are still worth consideration.
Considerations for former inclusions: Mulldrifter, Wurmcoil Engine, Vampire Nighthawk, Calcite Snapper, Sphinx of Jwar Isle (my choice finisher in Alara/Zendikar standard, because of shroud), Jace Beleren
Third, this deck has two key struggles that I have observed over the past year or so. The first is that when enchantments hit the board, we have a really difficult dealing with them directly and so we often have to deal with them in a roundabout way by using Pithing Needle post-board, or bouncing them with Cryptic. The other struggle is against enemy planeswalkers. Most enemy planeswalkers do not just die to Bolt and we do not always have the resources to dedicate to destroying other walkers. In considering both of these things, I love that we can just counter/bounce or bounce/draw with Cryptic Command but that only delays the inevitable. And so, to deal with enchantments, I already suggested including white as a fourth color. Alternatively, if your meta has a high Hatebears saturation (like mine), Annul is a worthy option. To deal with planeswalkers, I think that Hero's Downfall is a great choice.
Last, there are three cards that have consistently underperformed (at least in my mind) in this deck and they all stem from the UWR shell that this incarnation of Cruel Contol came from. This is where I challenge the established order and risk getting flamed
Electrolyze: The cantrip and the division of of damage is nice and can be useful in certain situations but I have found the effect to be, overall, underwhelming. In a strictly UBR list, I think I would rather see Magma Jet every time. It's cheaper, does the same amount of damage (though it doesn't distribute), is less mana-dependent, and it scries for 2 which would allow us to fix the top of our deck for the next two turns, something that this deck just cannot do without Ponder and Preordain.
Think Twice: In looking at this card, it essentially says "3UU, Instant, Draw 2 cards. Exile Think Twice." If a card that looked like this showed up in, say, Khans of Tarkir, every blue player would shake their heads in disgust and pass over it. Honestly, I have never been particularly thrilled about Think Twice because I always felt that paying two mana to draw one card just isn't good. Paying three mana to draw one card is even worse. Even at instant speed and having the cost split between two turns, I've just never been excited to cast it and have never been able to say, "Boy, drawing that one card off of Think Twice really saved me that game!" I've seen Telling Time show up a few times in this thread and I think that it is a much better card. Sure, we still only draw one card but it's not a blind draw. We get to filter the top of our deck which is, again, something that we don't really get to do without Ponder and Preordain. If either of those cards were legal in Modern, they would replace Think Twice in a heartbeat; Telling Time is very similar to Preordain and is, in my opinion, a better choice than Think Twice.
The third card is probably really going to step on toes. It is Mana Leak. Don't get me wrong, I love this card more than any other counter in the early game (besides Spell Snare). But every time I draw it in the late game my first thought is, "Awesome! A counter that does almost nothing!" Generally, in the late game, your opponent will just pay the three mana. It may slow down your opponent and prevent him or her from playing something else that turn but I'm cheap and don't want to pay two mana for that. Unfortunately, there are no suitable replacements for Mana Leak besides Cancel. Unless of course we split between Essence Scatter and Negate or pick one based on our current meta but I don't want to do that
I know this post was long but if you read it, I appreciate it and would love feedback/discussion. This is by no means comprehensive or complete and I am sure there are other considerations to be made. These are, of course, just my own thoughts and opinions on how to continue making this deck better. If I'm crazy, great! Just let me know without being a jerk about it!
GBW Nic-Fit GBW
UBRWG Dredge UBRWG
Modern:
R RDW R
UBW Esper Control UBW
EDH:
BG Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord BG
Here's the list I'll be running for Modern:
2 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Wall of Omens
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Batterskull
Spells 26
4 Esper Charm
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Cryptic Command
3 Spell Snare
2 Terminate
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Cruel Ultimatum
1 Path to Exile
1 Supreme Verdict
Land 26
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Marsh Flats
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Molten Slagheap
1 Mystic Gate
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Blood Crypt
2 Watery Grave
2 Steam Vents
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Island
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Pithing Needle
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Torpor Orb
1 Extirpate
2 Counterflux
1 Chromatic Lantern
2 Rakdos Charm
1 Shatterstorm
1 Wear and Tear
1 Engineered Explosives
I'm thinking boarding out creatures game 2 is probably a wise decision as my opponents will probably keep their removal in order to deal with the Nighthawks. This, of course, blanks their removal and puts them in a rough spot. I have no idea how this will play out but I will definitely post a report tomorrow night or Friday. I'm curious to see how Esper Charm works out. I've always loved that card in Cruel Control. Any feedback before tomorrow evening is appreciated, of course
GBW Nic-Fit GBW
UBRWG Dredge UBRWG
Modern:
R RDW R
UBW Esper Control UBW
EDH:
BG Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord BG