I imagine budget reasons, which is a terrible excuse. For those who were interested I started the primer for BUG Infect. Check it out and leave me your thoughts!
Nice primer Chaqs.
Do you have any suggestions on cards to use if I cant get hierarchs?
hierarchs are essential. but you might play the slightly more instable version with city of brass/gemstone mine and assault strobe instead. does not need hierarchs.
Do you have any suggestions on cards to use if I cant get hierarchs?
If I really couldn't afford hierarch I'd go for more infect guys (crusader or ichorclaw myr) rather then use another mana dork. I still dislike Cathedral, especially if you aren't running hierarch the mana is far too tight for this.
If I really couldn't afford hierarch I'd go for more infect guys (crusader or ichorclaw myr) rather then use another mana dork. I still dislike Cathedral, especially if you aren't running hierarch the mana is far too tight for this.
make a monogreen if you cant afford hierarchs or the lands
i play a monogreen infect and had really good results
i dont see a big difference between mono green and BUG or UG
make a monogreen if you cant afford hierarchs or the lands
i play a monogreen infect and had really good results
i dont see a big difference between mono green and BUG or UG
Apparently you've never played against Lingering Souls. Without a Blighted Agent or Distortion Strike infect completely folds to that card. Pendelhaven is your only out, if you can consider it one.
He also doesn't understand his only form of evasion is either apostle's blessing or rancor both which are sub par compared to having extra fliers, and an unblockable.
I haven't really tested infect much, but I'm surprised to see a lack of Abrupt Decay and a lot of Nature's Claims in peoples sideboards. I understand that Nature's Claim costing one is great. Abrupt Decay kills almost everything it does, and a bunch of things it doesn't (I was specifically concerned with Liliana of the Veil and Chalice of the Void- though I might be overestimating the presence of those cards).
I was also wondering what people thought of cheap permission. Spell Pierce seems like a sweet sideboard slot to me, but I don't see it used often.
I think the maindeck seems pretty set to me- I'm currently at this
I really don't like including Thoughtseize or removal in the maindeck, since you're going to win against most opponents without them. I'm wondering what the correct number of Apostle's Blessings is- I think it's three, since it basically takes care of everybody's mainboard answers to your deck and I haven't really drawn too many of them that often.
You guys should read the bug primer, I've been telling people to play decay over claim sb and d.strike main for at least two months. I've posted finish with both cards in my 75 too. On a seperate note you want seize main because storm and twin can beat you handedly, both decks can kill faster then your best nut draw if they are on the play and having less mutagenic growth MD doesn't really hurt since the card sucks. Turn two wins don't happen often enough to be worth it.
Now that Jund was nerfed I think Infect could be a lot more fun to play. Prior to Zendikar rotating out of standard, I played G/U Infect with only Glistener Elves, Blighted Agents, and Inkmoth for creatures. It had Ponder so it was actually quite consistent.
I want to try and apply the same principle to an infect deck in modern with a deck designed around getting out a blighted agent and protecting it.
EDIT - I have updated this list several times based on feedback
I would greatly appreciate any feedback - especially on whether Spellskite mainboard is a viable idea and whether I have the right balance of creatures/protection/pump.
Now that Jund was nerfed I think Infect could be a lot more fun to play. Prior to Zendikar rotating out of standard, I played G/U Infect with only Glistener Elves, Blighted Agents, and Inkmoth for creatures. It had Ponder so it was actually quite consistent.
I want to try and apply the same principle to an infect deck in modern with a deck designed around getting out a blighted agent and protecting it.
I would greatly appreciate any feedback - especially on whether Spellskite mainboard is a viable idea and whether I have the right balance of creatures/protection/pump.
Hi
Just looking at the list... it's interesting. I think if I were going to go to two colors I'd definitely experiment with Cathedral of War. This version won't explode nearly as quickly as a version with a full 8 fetchlands / 4 Groundswells, but it could work. I really worry about your low threat count. With BUG infect running 4/4/4 on Agent / Elf / Stinger and 4 Inkmoths, I still have to mulligan a fair amount of game 1 hands due to lack of threat. You honestly don't need 22 lands with 4 Hierarchs, is that so you can cast Corrosion out of the sideboard? I'd just board another hurkyl's recall if you're worried about affinity. You're not trying to play the long game or be a control deck so having those as an out is good. So I think I'd cut a land for another Ichorclaw at least. Have some Dismember somewhere to deal with opposing Spellskites and Meliras. Spellskite shuts us down so hard I want at least 6-7 cards that can deal with it in my board. If you read Chags' primer, he boards out almost all his non-Rancor pump in the mirror because of Spellskite. Torpor Orb is a little bit defensive for what you're trying to do, I think I'd make that another Simic Charm (which can be good against Twin as well) I hope you give positive results on Serum Visions, but.. Ponder, it ain't.
his solution to melira is abrupt decay which G/U doesn't have
The solutions I am thinking about against melira are Dismember, Beast Within, and maybe even Rapid Hybridization/Pongify? Would I rather take 4 life or give them a 3/3 to kill a melira.. hmm.
I'm almost thinking about adding white since the hierarchs can produce white for path. Bant infect?
Thanks Sabre - I updated my mana base. I'm still not sure about rancor vs mutagenic growth. The primer seems to favor rancor with mutagenics as optional so I'm going to test it out this way first.
You can make so many versions of Infect and every color brings something to the table. Of course green being primary and I don't see runing without blue. But all three versions: Bant, RUG and BUG are playable I think.
This is competitive forums so I don't accept any budget talk.
First - manabase. Hinterland Harbor is bad and you should run all eight fetches. Yayimaya Cost should be Breeding Pool. No Islands. You should be okay with two Pendelhavens and even one Cathedral.
Second - creatures. I am not sure about Spellskites. Having so many in main will be useful and helps defending against removal, occasionaly will win you a game (especially in mirror) but IDK. The rest are OK.
EDIT: Damn those Spellskites! I have really tough time deciding wheter they are good in main or not. Part of me want to say "Sabre, you stupid idiot, noone plays Spellskites in main in Infect in Modern" while the other part says "You dumbass, you side them in in 90% of games!".
Spells - you always want 4 Mights + 4 Groundswells. Other are discussable but these should be alywas obvious inclusion. Personally I like Mutagenic Growth because it adds well with other spells. What I mean is normally two +4+4 pumps doesn't win you a game on spot:
1 + 4 + 4 = 9
but:
1 + 1 (hierarch / pendelhaven) + 4 + 4 = 10
1 + 2 (growth) + 4 + 4 = 11
In current meta with so many removals I think that I value growth more than Rancor, because it lets you make one-turn-kill without using additional mana. Rancor gives you same power and trample but it costs you one mana and often you don't get to have another swing. Even if it is reusable, IDK.
With the number of spellskites and Simic Charm 1 Blessing should be enough.
The worst part of your deck is manabase for sure, the rest is pretty much OK.
Keep in mind that I am pretty new to Modern and my experience comes only from playing Standard. Here I try to use my Standard experience to make some good conclusions but I might be wrong.
I have PTQ in two weeks and I am going to test BUG (chags list with meta tweaks), RUG (Simian and Assault) and Bant (more protection and Wild Defiance) versions of Infect.
I don't think Yavimaya Coast is BAD in UG infect. There are definitely times when it's what you want to see over Breeding Pool. You're not going to be tapping it for colored mana more than twice anyways in all likelihood, and against something like Burn you're definitely going to feel those shocklands. Hinterland Harbor as well is fine but not a full set. I'd run 2, if I ran them at all. You definitely want 2-3 Pools but you don't NEED the full playset, especially if you run 8 fetches. I know they're the "non budget" land, but this isn't a no-drawback Tropical Island we're talking about. It just happens to be fetchable, which is its main strength, if it weren't fetchable I'd probably run Coasts over them. And yes, run all 8 forest fetches. Green mana is still the most important mana you need to make in UG or any infect build.
Spellskite in the main is truly a meta call. It definitely WILL win you some game 1's you shouldn't win, which is always a good thing. I personally board them because my game 1 strategy is a super blitz, but I'll admit a MD spellskite hurts me pretty badly, I'm sure it will hurt a number of decks just as badly. Pretty much anything that wants to interact with you is sad about Spellskite...Twin is extra sad.(Paying the 2 life against burn to redirect a Lightning Helix or Bolt is actually a very solid play. 1 life here and there really matters against them.) Just because no one in the infect herd main decks them NOW doesn't mean they shouldn't. It's a good call in the right meta.
It's interesting about the math, too. I played Mono-Green infect for a LONG time in standard and derped a few FNM wins out of it, and there were a number of times I had the turn 2 kill minus a Mutagenic Growth. If you're going for speed, Mutagenic Growth is your friend. If you're focusing more on protecting your guys, you can live without it. I know Chags doesn't care for it. I personally love it, but it's all about your playstyle I think. If you care about winning turn 2, you need the set of them. Just remember that removal in Modern is far superior to anything you'd face in Standard, swinging into an untapped white mana is like playing chicken at 150 mph. Hell, swinging into ANY open mana is iffy with Dismember lurking. I almost want Gitaxian Probe for my peace of mind.
Rancor's value I've found is dependent on what your opponent has. I think in this UG build, or any build with Ichorclaw Myr, Rancor's value is increased just by virtue of synergy. But if you're being stonewalled by Lingering Souls tokens, you want Rancor, or Distortion Strike. Distortion Strike has won me games I had no business winning.
As far as "other" versions of infect, Lost Leonin in Bant really makes the "math" easier without a Hierarch or a Growth, meaning you just need the double +4/+4 on turn 3 to goldfish win that turn. The downside is it's a creature that costs 2 with no evasion. Your mileage may vary on him. I played GW infect for a while for Oust and Leonin in standard and Leonin kind of disappointed. With Distortion Strike and Rancor on board though he might be better. I'm not experienced enough with RUG infect to comment on it, though it has some things that seem nice..bloodrush is interesting since it can't be countered or Spellskite-d away, and Assault Strobe is just like a +5 pump spell most of the time, so the "math" gets easier with it on board as well.
Hi
Just looking at the list... it's interesting. I think if I were going to go to two colors I'd definitely experiment with Cathedral of War. This version won't explode nearly as quickly as a version with a full 8 fetchlands / 4 Groundswells, but it could work. I really worry about your low threat count. With BUG infect running 4/4/4 on Agent / Elf / Stinger and 4 Inkmoths, I still have to mulligan a fair amount of game 1 hands due to lack of threat. You honestly don't need 22 lands with 4 Hierarchs, is that so you can cast Corrosion out of the sideboard? I'd just board another hurkyl's recall if you're worried about affinity. You're not trying to play the long game or be a control deck so having those as an out is good. So I think I'd cut a land for another Ichorclaw at least. Have some Dismember somewhere to deal with opposing Spellskites and Meliras. Spellskite shuts us down so hard I want at least 6-7 cards that can deal with it in my board. If you read Chags' primer, he boards out almost all his non-Rancor pump in the mirror because of Spellskite. Torpor Orb is a little bit defensive for what you're trying to do, I think I'd make that another Simic Charm (which can be good against Twin as well) I hope you give positive results on Serum Visions, but.. Ponder, it ain't.
IMHO you need 4 groundswells. They work well with fetch lands. It is a 4/4 pump which is great.
Not sure about running main deck skites. Dead draws vs too many decks. Nice vs twin, burn and mirror. What would you rather see on your opening 7 a spellskite or a blighted agent...or anything else really?
I'd also run another blessing. This card can pull double duty being protection and sometimes another distortion strike. Very good when all you have is an inkmoth untapped and they try bolting you threat. You want to save those vine for pump if you can and blessings fill that roll nicely.
Land wise I wouldn't run color that can't be fetched...just my preferrence. Even with land in my hand I'll play the fetch first just to thin the deck. We can run on two land on the board fairly well....breeding pool, overgrown tomb and inkmoth (I play BUG) on the board is the best setup to stay under tech edge. I usually hold on to excess land just in case you draw a groundswell you need to activate.
All-in-all your deck looks pretty good. You will pile up a few wins for sure.
After testing with simic charms in the SB, my conclusion is it's a good card but not needed in the current meta. Maybe when the meta changes.
Other than that, I don't understand the versions with black and without cantrips. I think the cantrips are too good to pass, specially post SB.
So I lost to Tron tonight in a very close game 3. He stayed in the game via Spellskite. I'm sort of kicking myself for not seeing it coming and boarding in Dismember on top of claim+decay.
Do you think it is smart to board dismember in anticipation of skite? If he doesn't board it in (for some reason) then it's a dead card..
So I lost to Tron tonight in a very close game 3. He stayed in the game via Spellskite. I'm sort of kicking myself for not seeing it coming and boarding in Dismember on top of claim+decay.
Do you think it is smart to board dismember in anticipation of skite? If he doesn't board it in (for some reason) then it's a dead card..
Well, if you board in dismembers, board in exactly 1 copy. It is a dead card if you hit your second.
Normally claim and decay by themselves should do it, but tron is starting to throw more annoying-skites into their sideboard, so if you have already boarded in all of your decays and nature's claims, then totally add 1 dismember (if you feel it is not working)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: Modern is Bad
Legacy:WDeath and TaxesW W45-L16-D11 8 Top 8s 15th Scg Oakland
Current Kiln Fiend Count: 153 Please message me if you want to trade me or give me some.
Commission Rezombied to alter some cards, he's awesome!
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Nice primer Chaqs.
Do you have any suggestions on cards to use if I cant get hierarchs?
Thanks Isho, I will look up that list!
If I really couldn't afford hierarch I'd go for more infect guys (crusader or ichorclaw myr) rather then use another mana dork. I still dislike Cathedral, especially if you aren't running hierarch the mana is far too tight for this.
you can use birds of paradise and gemstone mine for mana issues when playing phyrexian crusader. Crusader is still a nice card and works very well with rancor/distortion strike. you can also sacrifice birds to liliana of the veil
i play a monogreen infect and had really good results
i dont see a big difference between mono green and BUG or UG
Apparently you've never played against Lingering Souls. Without a Blighted Agent or Distortion Strike infect completely folds to that card. Pendelhaven is your only out, if you can consider it one.
Sexy Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios
EDH
G Isao
I was also wondering what people thought of cheap permission. Spell Pierce seems like a sweet sideboard slot to me, but I don't see it used often.
I think the maindeck seems pretty set to me- I'm currently at this
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Glistener Elf
4 Plague Stinger
4 Blighted Agent
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Rancor
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Groundswell
4 Vines of Vastwood
3 Apostle's Blessing
1 Giant Growth
I really don't like including Thoughtseize or removal in the maindeck, since you're going to win against most opponents without them. I'm wondering what the correct number of Apostle's Blessings is- I think it's three, since it basically takes care of everybody's mainboard answers to your deck and I haven't really drawn too many of them that often.
Now that Jund was nerfed I think Infect could be a lot more fun to play. Prior to Zendikar rotating out of standard, I played G/U Infect with only Glistener Elves, Blighted Agents, and Inkmoth for creatures. It had Ponder so it was actually quite consistent.
I want to try and apply the same principle to an infect deck in modern with a deck designed around getting out a blighted agent and protecting it.
4 inkmoth nexus
4 breeding pool
4 misty rainforest
4 verdant catacomb
2 pendelhaven
1 cathedral of war
1 forest
Creatures
4 glistener elf
4 noble hierach
4 blighted agent
3 spellskite
4 ichorclaw myr
4 serum visions
4 vines of vastwood
4 might of old krosa
4 groundswell
2 rancor
1 distortion strike
1 simic charm
1 apostle's blessing
3 nature's claim
1 seal of primordium
2 pithing needle
1 back to nature
2 hurkyl's recall
2 spreading seas
1 grafdigger's cage
1 simic charm
1 spellskite
1 dismember
EDIT - I have updated this list several times based on feedback
I would greatly appreciate any feedback - especially on whether Spellskite mainboard is a viable idea and whether I have the right balance of creatures/protection/pump.
Hi
Just looking at the list... it's interesting. I think if I were going to go to two colors I'd definitely experiment with Cathedral of War. This version won't explode nearly as quickly as a version with a full 8 fetchlands / 4 Groundswells, but it could work. I really worry about your low threat count. With BUG infect running 4/4/4 on Agent / Elf / Stinger and 4 Inkmoths, I still have to mulligan a fair amount of game 1 hands due to lack of threat. You honestly don't need 22 lands with 4 Hierarchs, is that so you can cast Corrosion out of the sideboard? I'd just board another hurkyl's recall if you're worried about affinity. You're not trying to play the long game or be a control deck so having those as an out is good. So I think I'd cut a land for another Ichorclaw at least. Have some Dismember somewhere to deal with opposing Spellskites and Meliras. Spellskite shuts us down so hard I want at least 6-7 cards that can deal with it in my board. If you read Chags' primer, he boards out almost all his non-Rancor pump in the mirror because of Spellskite. Torpor Orb is a little bit defensive for what you're trying to do, I think I'd make that another Simic Charm (which can be good against Twin as well) I hope you give positive results on Serum Visions, but.. Ponder, it ain't.
The solutions I am thinking about against melira are Dismember, Beast Within, and maybe even Rapid Hybridization/Pongify? Would I rather take 4 life or give them a 3/3 to kill a melira.. hmm.
I'm almost thinking about adding white since the hierarchs can produce white for path. Bant infect?
I don't think Yavimaya Coast is BAD in UG infect. There are definitely times when it's what you want to see over Breeding Pool. You're not going to be tapping it for colored mana more than twice anyways in all likelihood, and against something like Burn you're definitely going to feel those shocklands. Hinterland Harbor as well is fine but not a full set. I'd run 2, if I ran them at all. You definitely want 2-3 Pools but you don't NEED the full playset, especially if you run 8 fetches. I know they're the "non budget" land, but this isn't a no-drawback Tropical Island we're talking about. It just happens to be fetchable, which is its main strength, if it weren't fetchable I'd probably run Coasts over them. And yes, run all 8 forest fetches. Green mana is still the most important mana you need to make in UG or any infect build.
Spellskite in the main is truly a meta call. It definitely WILL win you some game 1's you shouldn't win, which is always a good thing. I personally board them because my game 1 strategy is a super blitz, but I'll admit a MD spellskite hurts me pretty badly, I'm sure it will hurt a number of decks just as badly. Pretty much anything that wants to interact with you is sad about Spellskite...Twin is extra sad.(Paying the 2 life against burn to redirect a Lightning Helix or Bolt is actually a very solid play. 1 life here and there really matters against them.) Just because no one in the infect herd main decks them NOW doesn't mean they shouldn't. It's a good call in the right meta.
It's interesting about the math, too. I played Mono-Green infect for a LONG time in standard and derped a few FNM wins out of it, and there were a number of times I had the turn 2 kill minus a Mutagenic Growth. If you're going for speed, Mutagenic Growth is your friend. If you're focusing more on protecting your guys, you can live without it. I know Chags doesn't care for it. I personally love it, but it's all about your playstyle I think. If you care about winning turn 2, you need the set of them. Just remember that removal in Modern is far superior to anything you'd face in Standard, swinging into an untapped white mana is like playing chicken at 150 mph. Hell, swinging into ANY open mana is iffy with Dismember lurking. I almost want Gitaxian Probe for my peace of mind.
Rancor's value I've found is dependent on what your opponent has. I think in this UG build, or any build with Ichorclaw Myr, Rancor's value is increased just by virtue of synergy. But if you're being stonewalled by Lingering Souls tokens, you want Rancor, or Distortion Strike. Distortion Strike has won me games I had no business winning.
As far as "other" versions of infect, Lost Leonin in Bant really makes the "math" easier without a Hierarch or a Growth, meaning you just need the double +4/+4 on turn 3 to goldfish win that turn. The downside is it's a creature that costs 2 with no evasion. Your mileage may vary on him. I played GW infect for a while for Oust and Leonin in standard and Leonin kind of disappointed. With Distortion Strike and Rancor on board though he might be better. I'm not experienced enough with RUG infect to comment on it, though it has some things that seem nice..bloodrush is interesting since it can't be countered or Spellskite-d away, and Assault Strobe is just like a +5 pump spell most of the time, so the "math" gets easier with it on board as well.
Anyways, those are just a few of my thoughts!
IMHO you need 4 groundswells. They work well with fetch lands. It is a 4/4 pump which is great.
Not sure about running main deck skites. Dead draws vs too many decks. Nice vs twin, burn and mirror. What would you rather see on your opening 7 a spellskite or a blighted agent...or anything else really?
I'd also run another blessing. This card can pull double duty being protection and sometimes another distortion strike. Very good when all you have is an inkmoth untapped and they try bolting you threat. You want to save those vine for pump if you can and blessings fill that roll nicely.
Land wise I wouldn't run color that can't be fetched...just my preferrence. Even with land in my hand I'll play the fetch first just to thin the deck. We can run on two land on the board fairly well....breeding pool, overgrown tomb and inkmoth (I play BUG) on the board is the best setup to stay under tech edge. I usually hold on to excess land just in case you draw a groundswell you need to activate.
All-in-all your deck looks pretty good. You will pile up a few wins for sure.
Other than that, I don't understand the versions with black and without cantrips. I think the cantrips are too good to pass, specially post SB.
Do you think it is smart to board dismember in anticipation of skite? If he doesn't board it in (for some reason) then it's a dead card..
Well, if you board in dismembers, board in exactly 1 copy. It is a dead card if you hit your second.
Normally claim and decay by themselves should do it, but tron is starting to throw more annoying-skites into their sideboard, so if you have already boarded in all of your decays and nature's claims, then totally add 1 dismember (if you feel it is not working)
Legacy:WDeath and TaxesW W45-L16-D11 8 Top 8s 15th Scg Oakland
Current Kiln Fiend Count: 153 Please message me if you want to trade me or give me some.
Commission Rezombied to alter some cards, he's awesome!