I'm afraid I don't have the money to have a physical copy of the deck and a MTGO copy as well, and I think it'd take a lot of practice with it to make sure every trigger goes the way it's supposed to. I have enough fun playing the physical copy of it though, and I'm fairly competitive with it.
I think I'd get too frustrated with it in the end for it to be worthwhile, honestly. Shame it's not more well-known though, but on the plus side it's cheaper to make because of it which makes it (in my mind) a solid deck to play if you're on a budget (or even if you aren't).
I am thinking of building the deck on MTGO (about 40 dollars to build) as there isn't alot of Modern events in my area and I really like playing this deck even as complicated as it is. The thing I think is that most MTGO players are "spike" players, they want to play the "best deck" and one that wins without much thinking involved, this deck requires thinking (which is a good thing), it is one of the reasons it isn't played a whole bunch, also add in the fact that people could look over the deck and immediately dismiss it because it "does nothing" and isn't super obvious how it goes about winning. For those reasons alone most MTGO players are more than happy to play Karn-Tron, Tarmogoyf, Affinty & Jund as these decks are more obvious how they win.
I play this deck on MODO all the time, you generally get lots of confusion until you win
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Modern:
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget I stream!
Long time inactive. I doubt anyone here remembers me.
I'm pretty out of the loop so this idea might seem asinine, but a little while ago I had an idea for dedicating the vast majority of the sideboard to significantly changing the character of the deck, by containing Disciple of the Vault, Moriok Rigger and black mana sources.
The theory is that fighting disruption with disruption is often counterproductive, because it can slow the deck down enough that it ends up giving your opponent enough time to disrupt you anyway. So instead, throw the whole idea of the quick combo win out the window and morph it into a quasi-aggro deck. It is helped by the fact your opponent will almost certainly side out all his creature hate after Game 1.
Blitz: I agree, this site is the only place I've seen that has actually promoted an intellectual discussion regarding this deck. Just doing a quick google search shows next to nothing useful on this deck. I've told a few of my friends about the Sunny Side Up deck and my friend thought I still used the old 2 color eggs from way back when because those are pretty much the only decklists online. That said, I need to update my list because my list in the original post has changed a fair amount. Only problem is that I change my list on a daily basis so I never have ONE list to give people. Because I am stubborn as hell, I'm still working on my Riddlesmith (non-KCI) build, trying to make it as consistent as possible.
@Blitz: I have been running the list you gave and have noticed that although it does have good consitency sometimes your deck suddenly halts, I am assuming I am doing something wrong as I usually resolve Ghost Quarter shuffle effects before I draw although my friend pointed out that apart from the times I need the extra land I should only be doing shuffle effects after I put stuff back in the deck with draw left open. Also you sideboard is against the rules as it contains 16 cards I am assuming you are playing 3 Silence.
Yes you want to generally bauble something to the bottom before a shuffle trigger, I generally don't do this as I usually have a noxious revival in hand
Blitz: I agree, this site is the only place I've seen that has actually promoted an intellectual discussion regarding this deck. Just doing a quick google search shows next to nothing useful on this deck. I've told a few of my friends about the Sunny Side Up deck and my friend thought I still used the old 2 color eggs from way back when because those are pretty much the only decklists online. That said, I need to update my list because my list in the original post has changed a fair amount. Only problem is that I change my list on a daily basis so I never have ONE list to give people. Because I am stubborn as hell, I'm still working on my Riddlesmith (non-KCI) build, trying to make it as consistent as possible.
I find Riddlesmith non-KCI to be very consistent, then again I am using Sleight Of Hand for dig over Gitaxian Probe before comboing off, delaying my clock by about a turn or 2, but much more consistent turn 4-5 wins
As for the deck being serious, well it is seriously fun to play
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Modern:
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget I stream!
Mise Mage: Comboing off with this deck is a balancing act between satisfying the immediate needs of the deck, and impacting of later consistency within the combo past a certain threshold. So, to clarify what is said in the Primer, the short answer is: bauble -> shuffle -> draw.
Longer answer: This is not always the case. While you still have a lot of land in the deck at the beginning, making sure you decrease the statistical probability of drawing those lands with the few draw effects you have can sometimes be a factor.
Never bauble back your first sunrise unless you've drawn or are holding a 2nd one or a drift/OtV. There are exceptions to that too, of course. If you find yourself fizzeling a lot... just slow down, look at your cards, make mental note of how much of each card you have left in your library (and in the yard), and figure out which of your options has the highest margin of success. Keep pencil and paper on hand in case you need it. Just like any pile, you have to do what you can to eliminate/curb the variance.
About the sideboard... the time sieve shouldn't have been in there. But I've actually updated my list to reflect what i currently play, so now it's a non-issue.
Asheroth: just PM or post whatever you are ok with being displayed in the primer. If at some point you want to put up something else, I'll put that one up too. I'd say I'd like to keep it 1 list per person in the poster's decklist section, but if I felt it was warranted, I'd post 2 lists by one person. It's called "community decklists" for a reason.
Spoofed: Go ahead and run 4 sunrise anyway in a list like that, and cut 1 more OtV, but clutch isn't a bad idea. How lucky, something that can fetch both a sunrise effect OR a KCI. Thing is, you pretty much never want to see clutch if you are just starting off on your combo, black mana is terrible in eggs. Plus, like flores would say: 7 mana is way more mana than 6 mana. Like, 2 more mana. So how terrible to come across this during the combo? Don't know yet, will have to test.
Non-KCI now viable?
edit: I totally forgot we aren't allowed to discuss cards from unreleased sets here! o.O;;
I agree Blitz. I didn't know if we were allowed to discuss it yet though since the set is not out. Faith's Reward just makes all versions of this deck better altogether. I do think this will make Riddlesmith more viable because we now have more Sunrise effects with the added draw of the smith. Ill be proxy-ing Faith's Rewards for now and testing them out in my Riddlesmith builds.
One thing for certain, Reclaim (all it does is it dumps Second Sunrise on top of library for 1 mana) and Drift of Phantasms (all it does is find Second Sunrise only for 3 mana) are now dead. Time to brush up my Sunny Side Up decks again!
And ya, once i can get my hands on a set of these, it's time to test out a million and one different configurations...
I can personally see drift going away completely, but I think I'll still keep 2 revival, as that's a matter of recurring anything that the deck still wants to recur.
I think the first 2 things I'm going to do to test is 1) just changing drift to undercity, and going -1 sphere -1 flask +2 faith's reward as a minimal change and 2)Remake both riddlesmith and Lotus Cobra builds with 10 card engine suite (4 sunrise, 4 faith, 2 revival) before moving on to more drastic changes.
I'd actually be prone to dropping the Noxious Revival number, too, because Faith's Reward is basically (expensive) Second Sunrises 5+, while Noxious Revival needs an actual Second Sunrise in the yard to be truly effective. My default testing swaps will be -2 Noxious Revival, +2 Faith's Reward.
Two things to note:
1) It only counts stuff from your side of the field, unlike Sunrise, which returns cards on both sides. Tormod's Crypt becomes slightly less problematic now. Ghost Quarter could become a kill condition (Seriously. Although it's only a "soft" win like gaining infinite life with Sunbeam Spellbomb, but what can your opponent do without any lands?).
2) Less strict mana cost, Sunrise is 1WW and this is 3W. This benefits KCI since it produces so much colorless mana.
This deck doesn't just auto-lose to Surgical Extraction now. Excellent addition!
This card pushes Noxious Revival, Drift of Phantasms and Open the Vaults out of the deck - Open the Vaults can be cool if you get it in your opening hand and start saccing aggressively, but nothing beats getting Ghost Quarters back from the graveyard, especially in a deck that needs 1WW.
As an aside I think the KCI build should run more lands now, since both Faith's Reward and KCI cost a hefty 4 mana.
This card is awesome in all sorts of ways. Long live Eggs!
I'm not entirely sure Faith's Reward pushes Open the Vaults out of the deck, as OtV is the nuts post-fizzle, while Faith's Reward does nothing post-fizzle. It's good if you don't like OtV, though.
Ah yes, just how soft an infinite life-attempt to deck out win con is when you're against RG Artifact Tron, they whip out an Eldrazi, take virtual infinite turns with it (what do we do, sideboard Seal of Doom?), grab Karn, mug an Eldrazi, and restart the game.
I don't agree that Faith's Reward should push out Noxious Revival as Revival is still needed for protecting against Surgical Extraction, and it allows us recur things from our gy such as Reshape.
Clutch ended up being way to clunky to use. Maybe in RtR they'll print a mono-blue 4cmc transmute spell.
With 8 Sunrises your chance of fizzling (i.e. not drawing a Sunrise) is drastically reduced.
If they strip all Sunrises from the deck you still have Reward to count on, that's how this deck will dodge Extraction. Reward provides redundancy, like how Twin has both Pestermite and Deceiver Exarch. This deck can go off with just 2 Open the Vaults (and 2 Noxious Revival), so going off with 4 Faith's Reward can't be that hard.
I have never Revivaled Reshape, only Sunrise. Since this is the case Reward is undoubtedly better, because Revival + draw = Sunrise, while Reward = Sunrise. You get to see one extra card compared to if you were using Revival. That's not including Revival's restriction of only being useful if you have Sunrise in the yard.
I don't see the point of Drift, OtV, or Revival now that we have Faith's Reward. I could see the point of a single OtV in a control-heavy environment.
I do think that Faith's Reward makes the KCI-build look even better than before given the the difference between 1WW and 3W; it isn't hard for a KCI deck to vomit mana. Ghost Quarter becomes marginally better, too.
I know when M13 is released I'll be buying a playset and fooling around with them, but I expect to run at least 3. I don't know if I want 8 sunrise effects simply because it'd be a pain if I drew too many of them (weird to think, I know) but Faith's Reward is too good to only run two of.
For the record, I can't think of a single time I've used Revival on anything but a Sunrise.
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I think I'd get too frustrated with it in the end for it to be worthwhile, honestly. Shame it's not more well-known though, but on the plus side it's cheaper to make because of it which makes it (in my mind) a solid deck to play if you're on a budget (or even if you aren't).
I play this deck on MODO all the time, you generally get lots of confusion until you win
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget
I stream!
Hermit Druid Combo:
I'm pretty out of the loop so this idea might seem asinine, but a little while ago I had an idea for dedicating the vast majority of the sideboard to significantly changing the character of the deck, by containing Disciple of the Vault, Moriok Rigger and black mana sources.
The theory is that fighting disruption with disruption is often counterproductive, because it can slow the deck down enough that it ends up giving your opponent enough time to disrupt you anyway. So instead, throw the whole idea of the quick combo win out the window and morph it into a quasi-aggro deck. It is helped by the fact your opponent will almost certainly side out all his creature hate after Game 1.
RIP Eggs
My Trade Thread
Yes you want to generally bauble something to the bottom before a shuffle trigger, I generally don't do this as I usually have a noxious revival in hand
I find Riddlesmith non-KCI to be very consistent, then again I am using Sleight Of Hand for dig over Gitaxian Probe before comboing off, delaying my clock by about a turn or 2, but much more consistent turn 4-5 wins
As for the deck being serious, well it is seriously fun to play
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget
I stream!
Hermit Druid Combo:
Longer answer: This is not always the case. While you still have a lot of land in the deck at the beginning, making sure you decrease the statistical probability of drawing those lands with the few draw effects you have can sometimes be a factor.
Never bauble back your first sunrise unless you've drawn or are holding a 2nd one or a drift/OtV. There are exceptions to that too, of course. If you find yourself fizzeling a lot... just slow down, look at your cards, make mental note of how much of each card you have left in your library (and in the yard), and figure out which of your options has the highest margin of success. Keep pencil and paper on hand in case you need it. Just like any pile, you have to do what you can to eliminate/curb the variance.
About the sideboard... the time sieve shouldn't have been in there. But I've actually updated my list to reflect what i currently play, so now it's a non-issue.
Asheroth: just PM or post whatever you are ok with being displayed in the primer. If at some point you want to put up something else, I'll put that one up too. I'd say I'd like to keep it 1 list per person in the poster's decklist section, but if I felt it was warranted, I'd post 2 lists by one person. It's called "community decklists" for a reason.
http://officeofstrategicinfluence.com/spam/ <---- kills spam, fyi.
4x Chromatic Star
4x Lotus Bloom
4x Terrarion
4x Conjurer's Bauble
3x Krark-Clan Ironworks
4x Chromatic Sphere
1x Pyrite Spellbomb
2x Elsewhere Flask
3x Ichor Wellspring
3x Reshape
1x Banefire
2x Open the Vaults
Land (17):
7x Island
1x Plains
4x Ghost Quarter
4x Darksteel Citadel
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Clutch of the Undercity
2x Faith's Reward
3x Second Sunrise
1x Noxious Revival
Creature (1):
1x Drift of Phantasms
Non-KCI now viable?
edit: I totally forgot we aren't allowed to discuss cards from unreleased sets here! o.O;;
http://officeofstrategicinfluence.com/spam/ <---- kills spam, fyi.
RIP Eggs
My Trade Thread
Relax; the_cardfather's new missive says we're allowed to discuss pre-released cards anywhere.
And ya, once i can get my hands on a set of these, it's time to test out a million and one different configurations...
I can personally see drift going away completely, but I think I'll still keep 2 revival, as that's a matter of recurring anything that the deck still wants to recur.
I think the first 2 things I'm going to do to test is 1) just changing drift to undercity, and going -1 sphere -1 flask +2 faith's reward as a minimal change and 2)Remake both riddlesmith and Lotus Cobra builds with 10 card engine suite (4 sunrise, 4 faith, 2 revival) before moving on to more drastic changes.
http://officeofstrategicinfluence.com/spam/ <---- kills spam, fyi.
Two things to note:
1) It only counts stuff from your side of the field, unlike Sunrise, which returns cards on both sides. Tormod's Crypt becomes slightly less problematic now. Ghost Quarter could become a kill condition (Seriously. Although it's only a "soft" win like gaining infinite life with Sunbeam Spellbomb, but what can your opponent do without any lands?).
2) Less strict mana cost, Sunrise is 1WW and this is 3W. This benefits KCI since it produces so much colorless mana.
This deck doesn't just auto-lose to Surgical Extraction now. Excellent addition!
This card pushes Noxious Revival, Drift of Phantasms and Open the Vaults out of the deck - Open the Vaults can be cool if you get it in your opening hand and start saccing aggressively, but nothing beats getting Ghost Quarters back from the graveyard, especially in a deck that needs 1WW.
As an aside I think the KCI build should run more lands now, since both Faith's Reward and KCI cost a hefty 4 mana.
This card is awesome in all sorts of ways. Long live Eggs!
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget
I stream!
Hermit Druid Combo:
Ah yes, just how soft an infinite life-attempt to deck out win con is when you're against RG Artifact Tron, they whip out an Eldrazi, take virtual infinite turns with it (what do we do, sideboard Seal of Doom?), grab Karn, mug an Eldrazi, and restart the game.
Clutch ended up being way to clunky to use. Maybe in RtR they'll print a mono-blue 4cmc transmute spell.
If they strip all Sunrises from the deck you still have Reward to count on, that's how this deck will dodge Extraction. Reward provides redundancy, like how Twin has both Pestermite and Deceiver Exarch. This deck can go off with just 2 Open the Vaults (and 2 Noxious Revival), so going off with 4 Faith's Reward can't be that hard.
Maybe a miser copy of Noxious Revival is necessary to prevent yourself from decking out if you're planning to win by Ghost Quarter Armageddon.
I have never Revivaled Reshape, only Sunrise. Since this is the case Reward is undoubtedly better, because Revival + draw = Sunrise, while Reward = Sunrise. You get to see one extra card compared to if you were using Revival. That's not including Revival's restriction of only being useful if you have Sunrise in the yard.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
I do think that Faith's Reward makes the KCI-build look even better than before given the the difference between 1WW and 3W; it isn't hard for a KCI deck to vomit mana. Ghost Quarter becomes marginally better, too.
I know when M13 is released I'll be buying a playset and fooling around with them, but I expect to run at least 3. I don't know if I want 8 sunrise effects simply because it'd be a pain if I drew too many of them (weird to think, I know) but Faith's Reward is too good to only run two of.
For the record, I can't think of a single time I've used Revival on anything but a Sunrise.