Has anyone been testing since Aggro Loam arrived on the scene? Seems like everyone and their mother is expecting to pack more hate for that deck... which hurts us as collateral dammage.
I saw a guy playing it at my local PTQ. It had no Open the Vaults and no Mox Opal. There was no agro-loam there, even tho there should have been, so I can't tell you how it did against that deck.
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WoTC, thank you for finally announcing the Modern format, an eternal format where everyone can participate.
Has anyone been testing since Aggro Loam arrived on the scene? Seems like everyone and their mother is expecting to pack more hate for that deck... which hurts us as collateral dammage.
I just started playing Modern about 6 days ago. I've only played like 2 2-mans and mostly in the tourney practice room (and the quality of decks I find there is lacking).
My computer had died and just recently got a new one. I also have 3 kids 5 < so I don't have a whole lot of free time or money.
I haven't looked up the Agro Loam deck list but the hate I've faced so far is:
Leyline of the Void
Leyline of Sanctity
Rule of Law
Ether Cannonist(?)
Relic of Protogensis(?)
Tormod's Crypt
Extirpate
The Meddling Mage enchantment for W2
The most common so far is: Relic, Rule of Law, Cannonist, Leyline of Sanctity
Next would be: Leyline of the Void, Tormod's Crypt, Extirpate and the Mage Enchantment.
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[Modern] WU Second Sunrise
[Modern] UR Pyromancer's Ascension
[Pauper] Anything & everything that fancies me.
I saw a guy playing it at my local PTQ. It had no Open the Vaults and no Mox Opal. There was no agro-loam there, even tho there should have been, so I can't tell you how it did against that deck.
No, I meant... now that Aggro Loam is popular and people are more aware of the power of it... we're going to see a heavier SB package against GY based combos... including us. What have people seen that's different than before?
Since I started playing eggs online 2 months ago, there has always been a ton of hate. Over 50 percent of the time they have relic, spellbomb, cannonist or rule of law. You just have to try to play around it. Also, the aggro loam matchup is actually really good. You just drop as much of your hand as you can, then wait to topdeck something. They are a control deck without counters, pretty much the perfect matchup. (fyi, I've only played one game in the Gold 2-man, which I won).
Second Sunrise is used to fuel our combo of drawing cards and generating mana. The thing is Krark-Clan Ironworks and 1cc artifacts that draw a card when they go to the graveyard is also a combo. This combo generates colorless mana while drawing cards also.
An example if you have KCI out and:
1 colorless mana:
Terrarion - draws a card and generates 2 colorless mana
Chromatic Star - draws a card and generates 2 colorless mana
2 colorless mana:
Ichor Wellspring - draws 2 cards and leaves you with 2 colorless mana
Elsewhere Flask - draws 1 card and leaves you with 2 colorless mana
Conjurer's Bauble - draws 1 card and leaves you with 1 colorless
Terrarion - draws 1 card and leaves you with 3 colorless
Chromatic Star - draws a card and leaves you with 3 colorless
Chromatic Sphere - draws 1 card and color washes
I've sort of mini-combo'ed before a Sunrise before by getting out an Ironworks and then just drawing like 6 to 8 more cards.
I also like the Edge Of Autumns. While combo'ing off it's a free draw and can color filter.
I had moved over to the most recent list that jungle linked to but I kept losing with that listing for whatever reason.
I'm finding we're a turn to slow vs other decks. Adding in some way to interact with our opponents would be good I think. We would just need to delay them a turn. I think I might try some Remands maindeck to see how it goes.
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[Modern] WU Second Sunrise
[Modern] UR Pyromancer's Ascension
[Pauper] Anything & everything that fancies me.
@Sroush... looks a lot like my list only I have Disciple of the Vault in there as an alt-win with KCI, Drift instead of Teachings, and 3 Ichors. I might swap to Teachings though since I run a lot of fetchable things in the board.
I have been playing a mild core version of the deck and am having a 75% success rating with the deck. I've yet to test the KCI build yet, but I feel like the core version is so much faster because of a possible turn 2 combo.
I recently attended the Mississippi PTQ for pro tour Barcelona, but didn't sleep the night before and went 2-3 drop because of misplays on my part and trying to rush the deck. I will definantly be posting more often here to get feedback.
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Thanks to Spiderboy4
iPhone users, if you use imtg or just want someone to play with on your iPhone, add me on the game center: Sgt black lotus.
Currently playing:
Standard - Whatever my friends give me that night lol
Just one thing I'll change in your sideboard is the Oxidize. Replace them with Seal of Primordium, because when you use Second Sunrise their artifacts will also come from graveyard, so you can kill them again with the seal, which also comes back
Someone has already said this before in this thread I think.
Hey all! So I havent read through every page of this thread yet and I havent had too much experience KCI builds (I play an updated version of asheroth's list, hes my brother) but I noticed a near equal amount of fizzles for my list and the 3 or so variations of KCI builds that I tested. So to me it came down to which build I preferred to play. So I just wanted to ask why the consensus is that KCI is far and away better than something like my brothers build? Thanks for your time peace.
I tested the KCI deck a lot in magic workstation and still have never won using the pyrite spellbomb. Why don't we just get rid of it?
I always end up burning the crap out of my opponent with banefire, and even if they have a leyline or you're playing a multiplayer game (1 banefire can't kill them all :D), you can just add the lab maniac from your sideboard.
I like to have more than one win con in my main, but I find it rather useless to have 2 win cons of the same type (banefire + pyrite, they're both burn).
Do you know any other win cards that would work in the deck?
I tested the KCI deck a lot in magic workstation and still have never won using the pyrite spellbomb. Why don't we just get rid of it?
I still use it to burn out guys occasionally. But yeah, I rarely win by that route ever. Even when I wasn't doing the KCI thing, I was trying to Grapeshot or Disciple of the Vault.
One of the first things I ended up hating after playtesting was Edge of Autumn. I usually never even have 4 lands in play by the time I am going off, and it's almost always basically been a dead card for me. Even when it's not dead, it's hasn't been necessary. Ghost Quarter + Saccing Citadels to KCI has always been good enough. In a situation where it's really tight if I can combo in time to win, I've never felt like I could give up an artifact on a Turn where I'm not going off to cast Edge for another land. In both cases, it just seems sub par.
I am going to try fitting in the Serum Visions and Sleight of Hand (not sure on the count yet) as well as another land. My first thought is to cut Two Etherium Sculptor (again, I am starting from Juggler's list), and then some number of Ichor Wellsprings / Terrarion. I don't think I'll be switching out 1 Open the Vaults for 1 Mystical Teachings, though. Having the Open the Vaults allows you to cycle your artifacts very early on to find what you need because you know you can bring them all back later when you want to go off. That seems more worth it to me than what Mystical Teachings provides.
I am toying with the idea of only 3 KCI mainly due to the reason that drawing 2 early on really, really sucks. It's just such a hard call, as I pretty much always want to have a KCI it seems, and Reshaping for it is painful. If I have enough mana to do that, I can usually do without the KCI.
I will try some experimenting later, but sticking really close to Juggler's list has been pretty successful for me so far. I have only really been playing in the tournament practice room, but when I get some more time to dedicate to playing some more, I'll start doing the dailies with it.
A last note: To anyone who feels like the deck isn't consistent enough, then you really need to start with Juggler's list. He has a lot more artifacts VS the Sorceries or maindeck "sideboard cards" than a lot of the other lists. It is definitely a tighter list and tough to choose what to take out when sideboarding, but the added consistency G1 is sooooooooo worth it.
"My blade slices the air, sakura petals scatter, crimson blossoms appear on the ground..."
Autumn, the season of the Harvest and Falling Leaves... Song of an unreachable dream...
no. I don't believe we have. I've tried a number of various packages that can end up giving you infinite or near-infinite chains once you have the pieces (like say, eternal witness + greater gargadon refetching sunrise, or sunforger on lotus cobra/smith), but not that one. Not really in a position to test it out atm, but the first thing i would say is... +2 retriever -2 sculptor from jugglers list for a start if you want to get a feel for it in just a pure sunrise shell. We don't really have cheap tutoring effects in this deck (or the format) so trying to make a more stable and less draw dependent version with fewer eggs and more tutoring and 4 retriever seems a dicey proposition, and might just be too slow just thinking about the interaction itself. I mean, you need 2 retrievers (not just one), 1 KCI, and 1 riddlesmith or 1 storm spell, and enough mana to both tutor and cast them by turn 4. You could combo into it just off the cuff (oops i win deal), but then it just has the same effect as say, banefire itself in the deck proper.
It doesn't exactly seem all that necessary from where I'm sitting. KCI + artifacts is enough of a combo by itself, to be honest. I mean, if you DO have both smith AND kci AND 1 other retriever, then that 2nd retriever or reshape is as good as drawing a sunrise... but that seems far too messy for the mana and card investment in a straight sunrise deck, the same way sunforger didn't pan out. Like you are cramming heartless combo into an eggs shell. It's bound to screw up the numbers and make the deck less consistent.
The KCI + Riddlesmith + Myr Retriever is a nice little combo, but it's much slower, the eggs are more than enough to make us draw the whole deck, that would be just a "win more" card/combo.
So, which cards do you guys prefer to have when you want to make sure the opponent doesn't disrupt your combo? Defense grid, Silence or Pact of Negation?
I think I've never seen anyone using the Pact of Negation, but it might be an awesome card.
I just started playing Modern about 6 days ago. I've only played like 2 2-mans and mostly in the tourney practice room (and the quality of decks I find there is lacking).
My computer had died and just recently got a new one. I also have 3 kids 5 < so I don't have a whole lot of free time or money.
I haven't looked up the Agro Loam deck list but the hate I've faced so far is:
Leyline of the Void
Leyline of Sanctity
Rule of Law
Ether Cannonist(?)
Relic of Protogensis(?)
Tormod's Crypt
Extirpate
The Meddling Mage enchantment for W2
The most common so far is: Relic, Rule of Law, Cannonist, Leyline of Sanctity
Next would be: Leyline of the Void, Tormod's Crypt, Extirpate and the Mage Enchantment.
(¯`·._.·(¯`·._.· Currently Playing ·._.·´¯)·._.·´¯)
[Modern] WU Second Sunrise
[Modern] UR Pyromancer's Ascension
[Pauper] Anything & everything that fancies me.
No, I meant... now that Aggro Loam is popular and people are more aware of the power of it... we're going to see a heavier SB package against GY based combos... including us. What have people seen that's different than before?
4 Second Sunrise
2 Serum Visions
2 Edge of Autumn
2 Noxious Revival
4 Reshape
1 Mystical Teachings
1 Banefire
4 Lotus Bloom
3 Krark-Clan Ironworks
1 Mox Opal
3 Elsewhere Flask
4 Conjurer's Bauble
3 Terrarion
4 Chromatic Star
4 Chromatic Sphere
3 Darksteel Citadel
7 Island
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Plains
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Angel's Grace
1 Pithing Needle
3 Echoing Truth
2 Torpor Orb
2 Defense Grid
Second Sunrise is used to fuel our combo of drawing cards and generating mana. The thing is Krark-Clan Ironworks and 1cc artifacts that draw a card when they go to the graveyard is also a combo. This combo generates colorless mana while drawing cards also.
An example if you have KCI out and:
1 colorless mana:
Terrarion - draws a card and generates 2 colorless mana
Chromatic Star - draws a card and generates 2 colorless mana
2 colorless mana:
Ichor Wellspring - draws 2 cards and leaves you with 2 colorless mana
Elsewhere Flask - draws 1 card and leaves you with 2 colorless mana
Conjurer's Bauble - draws 1 card and leaves you with 1 colorless
Terrarion - draws 1 card and leaves you with 3 colorless
Chromatic Star - draws a card and leaves you with 3 colorless
Chromatic Sphere - draws 1 card and color washes
I've sort of mini-combo'ed before a Sunrise before by getting out an Ironworks and then just drawing like 6 to 8 more cards.
I also like the Edge Of Autumns. While combo'ing off it's a free draw and can color filter.
I had moved over to the most recent list that jungle linked to but I kept losing with that listing for whatever reason.
I'm finding we're a turn to slow vs other decks. Adding in some way to interact with our opponents would be good I think. We would just need to delay them a turn. I think I might try some Remands maindeck to see how it goes.
(¯`·._.·(¯`·._.· Currently Playing ·._.·´¯)·._.·´¯)
[Modern] WU Second Sunrise
[Modern] UR Pyromancer's Ascension
[Pauper] Anything & everything that fancies me.
I have been playing a mild core version of the deck and am having a 75% success rating with the deck. I've yet to test the KCI build yet, but I feel like the core version is so much faster because of a possible turn 2 combo.
Here's my list:
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Breeding Pool
3 Wild Cantor
4 Reshape
4 Second Sunrise
4 Edge of Autumn
4 Noxious Revival
4 Chromatic Star
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Conjurer's Bauble
4 Elsewhere Flask
3 Gitaxian Probe
3 Serum Visions
3 Lotus Bloom
1 Mox Opal
1 Sunbeam Spellbomb
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
3 Silence
3 Oxidize
2 Defense Grid
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Echoing Truth
I recently attended the Mississippi PTQ for pro tour Barcelona, but didn't sleep the night before and went 2-3 drop because of misplays on my part and trying to rush the deck. I will definantly be posting more often here to get feedback.
iPhone users, if you use imtg or just want someone to play with on your iPhone, add me on the game center: Sgt black lotus.
Modern - WURG French Toast
Legacy - WURG Legacy Toast
EDH - UG Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Someone has already said this before in this thread I think.
When I get the chance I'll order them. I find it super amusing that it's so repeatable.
iPhone users, if you use imtg or just want someone to play with on your iPhone, add me on the game center: Sgt black lotus.
Modern - WURG French Toast
Legacy - WURG Legacy Toast
EDH - UG Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
I always end up burning the crap out of my opponent with banefire, and even if they have a leyline or you're playing a multiplayer game (1 banefire can't kill them all :D), you can just add the lab maniac from your sideboard.
I like to have more than one win con in my main, but I find it rather useless to have 2 win cons of the same type (banefire + pyrite, they're both burn).
Do you know any other win cards that would work in the deck?
I still use it to burn out guys occasionally. But yeah, I rarely win by that route ever. Even when I wasn't doing the KCI thing, I was trying to Grapeshot or Disciple of the Vault.
I am going to try fitting in the Serum Visions and Sleight of Hand (not sure on the count yet) as well as another land. My first thought is to cut Two Etherium Sculptor (again, I am starting from Juggler's list), and then some number of Ichor Wellsprings / Terrarion. I don't think I'll be switching out 1 Open the Vaults for 1 Mystical Teachings, though. Having the Open the Vaults allows you to cycle your artifacts very early on to find what you need because you know you can bring them all back later when you want to go off. That seems more worth it to me than what Mystical Teachings provides.
I am toying with the idea of only 3 KCI mainly due to the reason that drawing 2 early on really, really sucks. It's just such a hard call, as I pretty much always want to have a KCI it seems, and Reshaping for it is painful. If I have enough mana to do that, I can usually do without the KCI.
I will try some experimenting later, but sticking really close to Juggler's list has been pretty successful for me so far. I have only really been playing in the tournament practice room, but when I get some more time to dedicate to playing some more, I'll start doing the dailies with it.
A last note: To anyone who feels like the deck isn't consistent enough, then you really need to start with Juggler's list. He has a lot more artifacts VS the Sorceries or maindeck "sideboard cards" than a lot of the other lists. It is definitely a tighter list and tough to choose what to take out when sideboarding, but the added consistency G1 is sooooooooo worth it.
Standard:
BWB/R Eldrazi AggroBR
Modern:
UMerfolkU
"My blade slices the air, sakura petals scatter, crimson blossoms appear on the ground..."
Autumn, the season of the Harvest and Falling Leaves...
Song of an unreachable dream...
It doesn't exactly seem all that necessary from where I'm sitting. KCI + artifacts is enough of a combo by itself, to be honest. I mean, if you DO have both smith AND kci AND 1 other retriever, then that 2nd retriever or reshape is as good as drawing a sunrise... but that seems far too messy for the mana and card investment in a straight sunrise deck, the same way sunforger didn't pan out. Like you are cramming heartless combo into an eggs shell. It's bound to screw up the numbers and make the deck less consistent.
That's the impression I get.
http://officeofstrategicinfluence.com/spam/ <---- kills spam, fyi.
I think I've never seen anyone using the Pact of Negation, but it might be an awesome card.