Really liking the Unified Will over Negate. In all the match-ups where Negate comes in we should be well ahead in the creature count.
I could see that, but how often are you finding yourself needing to counter a creature in those matchups? That seems like the only time this would be better, and yet it has the capability of being so much worse. Not sure the possible upside is worth the potential downside.
First thing that came to mind was Wurmcoil Engine but you're right, it is a non-trivial trade-off.
Generally the only way you're going to be creatureless is post-sweeper which more likely would have already drawn out my negate. I could be trigger-happy, but O.Stone or Anger generally seems worth stopping.
That being said, I haven't tested it. I'm sure backfiring once would leave me feeling sour but I thought it was pretty cool tech.
I've been thinking about a singleton Wilt-Leaf Liege somewhere in the 75 to help as a fast, Bolt - proof game closer that also serves as insurance against Anger. Works particularly well with Voice (and its elemental) but turns pretty much every creature into a threat. Has anyone tried this?
I've been thinking about a singleton Wilt-Leaf Liege somewhere in the 75 to help as a fast, Bolt - proof game closer that also serves as insurance against Anger. Works particularly well with Voice (and its elemental) but turns pretty much every creature into a threat. Has anyone tried this?
More pridemages, finks and voices are the obvious suggestions. Possibly cut back to only 1 scooze as it's a non GW beater. Steward of Valoran and Knotvine Mystic are GW dorks but don't really seem worth it.
Easiest way to fit it is as a substitution for Obstinate Baloth. It will allow you to be more aggressive in that slot but you may want to find some anti-aggro tech to balance. Extra finks? More Fiery Justice?
You might even be able to get away with it in the 60. Gavony has more than demonstrated our power to go wide. Making the effect fetchable sounds good.
Lost 0-2 vs. Restore Balance Combo
Won 2-1 vs. Mono Black Infect
Won 2-0 vs. Junk (Outvalued hardcore)
Looks like I need to bring in more hate vs. Restore balance combo but the good hate vs them is bad vs. Pod... even though I just lose to them being able to activate borderposts...
I apologize for being absent and not more actively participating in the discussion on this thread. I have been busy due to school but have still been keeping track of what's been going on here. I just wanted to give everyone my current list and thoughts about the deck, including the numerous discussion on variations of this deck. The thoughts that I'm going to write will probably be rather controversial and will guaranteed generate a lot of arguments against them. I will be glad to hear them out and discuss further. In my opinion, there have been a lot of variations of this deck and I think what people decide to play in their 75 is ultimately based on their playstyle. There is very rarely a straight up right or wrong answer. Now that that is out of the way, let's delve into some topics I want to discuss.
Kitchen Finks
Many of the decklists I have seen on MTGgoldfish and here contain 2-3 Kitchen Finks in the main 60. Over the past months I have begun to more and more shy away from this card. It is by all means a very solid card, but I've found myself, in the end, only putting 1 in my main 60. Most people will probably think I'm crazy. Having 1 is essential for Podding up, the ability to gain life and having the sweet interaction of podding a finks into a restoration angel to seal away games in some matchups. I feel as though however, kitchen finks is making less and less of an impact against most matchups. This is compared to its other alternatives in my mind, voice and scavenging ooze. Against the top 4 modern archetypes (affinity, BGx, twin, Pod), kitchen finks is mediocre at best. It does nothing to stop affinity or help the combo in that matchup. It gets outclassed by tarmogoyf and is terrible against scavenging ooze against BGx. It is ok against twin but gets blocked by a deceiver exarch. Against pod, it usually isn't interacting well against voice, ooze, walls and angels. Against combo, tron and scapeshift, it is rather embarassing. It shines against burn and zoo, which are not as popular and still winnable with 1 finks. Its alternative, scavenging ooze and voice on the other hand, I believe are much better against the field. They interact favorably with your plan and interact with your opponent to disrupt their gameplan. Ooze is good against UWR, twin, Jund, Pod, creature decks, graveyard decks etc. Similarly, I would rather have voice against UWR, twin, Jund, pod, U tron, scapeshift etc. I am just starting to realize I would rather have ooze or voice in over finks. Opponents shrug their shoulders when they see finks, but have headaches when they see voice or ooze. The one downside is that you don't gain incremental value with restoration angel. TL:DR Ooze and voice are more useful in more matchups than Kitchen Finks. They allow you to interact with your opponent and further your plan.
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Across all lists I have seen, Kiki-Jiki has always been a 2 of. Even I for the longest time have done so. But why? When I first started playing this decks years ago, it was a 3-of with 4 restoration angels and more chords. The combo was a huge part of the gameplan and having more draws for combo pieces helped. Now, I've been starting to realize, I only need 1. The arguments I can see for 2 is that, you have a higher chance to draw it, and that you have a backup if your first one dies. You can also say that pre-board, you win more games through combo as your opponent is less prepared for it, so 2 kiki is better. As I've grown more and more skilled with the deck, I've realized that I only need 1. In my games, if I'm going to go for the combo, I've already maneuvered the game state so that I either my opponent can't stop it or I have to go for it as a last ditch resort or I lose. In both cases, I don't need a backup one (though if I REALLY did, there's always eternal witness). Granted I have had games where casting Kiki-jiki without the combo on board to copy voice, finks or eternal witness every turn have won me the game. In those cases however, I'm already had and any spell would have been great. In most cases however, I'm not too much a fan of having Kiki in hand. I run 3 chords along with the 4 pods, so there's no shortage of ways to put one into play when needed, but I don't think I need 2. TL:DR 1 Kiki-jiki Mirror breaker in mainboard because I find no reason to have 2.
Path to Exile Mainboard
I myself and the lists on MTGO have been playing 2 paths mainboard. Why? I came to this conclusion from the fact that I was siding out my second kiki and finks every game for paths. Again the top 4, (affinity, BGx, twin and pod) all are matchups which you sideboard in path. So why not just put it main deck so you can have that slight advantage? There are matchups where its terrible (scapeshift, tron, storm etc come to mind) but mostly its good. I can see why people would do so! My latest list however plays 0 mainboard and 2 sideboard and you'll see why later. Again the argument of combo being your main plan game 1 is relevant here. TL:DR Most matchups you board in path, so why not have it main deck?
Vendilion Clique
This is probably the biggest change and arguably the most controversial of them all. After playing with 2 path mainboard for a long while and still not being happy with the BGx matchup and various other matchups, I searched high and low for solutions. Over the years, I've seen all the things people have tried to play in this deck and I arrived at Vendilion Clique. Users in this thread have also suggested it in the past. I myself was skeptical but have now been convinced after trying it out over various tournaments and having success. It was embarrassingly good against combo, scapeshift, UWR and twin. I stepped back and looked at my plan against BGx and realized I was winning the games through restoration angel beats. Vendilion Clique acts on the same axis. They are weak in the air and deal lots of damage to themselves (though lingering souls might be a thing now). The best argument against Clique and one which I can 100% agree is that it costs double blue. Like we really needed to make our manabase worse. I have however realized that my manabase hasn't really changed over the time my deck has changed. Now that I'm playing 1 kiki-jiki which I'm rarely casting, I don't need fire-lit thickets which I believe are due to the old days when this list used to play 3 kiki-jiki and wanted to cast it turn 4 ever game. A simple switch of 2 fire-lit thicket to 2 flooded groves makes it better though no less atrocious on paper. In total I have 3 red cards, 1 redcap, 1 kiki jiki and 1 zealous conscripts. Do I really need fire-lit thicket for these late drops? Casting voice into clique seems impossible at first, but again and again I've been able to do it. I've played this deck so much that when fetching, I can see how the next 3-4 turns will look and the lands I get will allow me to best do it without taking damage. Fetching with this deck is not an easy task and can easily cost you the game. I've had success with Cliques and will be having 2 in my 60 for my next 2 PTQ's. I may be wrong but I'm very optimistic. It shores up a lot of bad matchups and helps in the good matchups. It is always quite bonkers with restoration angel as you can imagine.Clique is at its worst against zoo, merfolk and affinity so keep that in mind. TL:DR 2 Vendilion Cliques mainboard. Yes I'm crazy but it works!
Those are the big changes and the controversial ones in my eyes. A lot of the changes and decisions I've made all have one thing in common: They all allow me to interact with my opponent. The 3rd chord and 4th restoration angel so many people shy away from along now with the 2 cliques allow me to play a lot of my game at their end step. Using wall of roots and instant speed spells allow us to speed things up even more and unload our hand faster, play spells on our turn and their turn. We all enjoy the times when we leave mana open and our opponent looks distraught going into the tank about what you could possibly chord up. Voice and ooze over finks, clique, more chords is more interaction with my opponent, stopping their plan and furthering ours.
The following are other things I've decided
2 Threads of Disloyalty Sideboard
I was unhappy about my BGx matchup and decided to put these in my sb now that I have flooded groves. Tarmogoyf and Ooze were the problematic cards and this solves it beautifully as they usually side out most of their Abrupt Decays postboard. If not you can always pod their creature or steal it with resto angel permanently before they decay it. If they use a removal spell on the creature you stole, nice 2 for 1!
3 Hierach and 3 Wall of Roots
This is due to the fact that I have 3 chords and most instant speed spells which allow me to utilize Wall of Roots better. The 4 angels and 2 Cliques take over the skies while it gets clammed up on the ground. I can however see playing a fourth hierarch over a wall as a turn 1 accelerant is always more powerful and it also fixes your mana. It is up to you.
4 Restoration Angel, 3 Chord
Most lists I see are running 3 Angels and 2 Chords. I like to play the game at instant speed more and have more interaction. I like having an extra chord for slightly more adaptability. It is however justifiable to see less depending on your version and playstyle
0 phantasmal image, 1 exarch
I've gone over this multiple times but I just don't see the need for having 2 whole slots for unexciting creatures only to allow for birthing pod to combo at 1CMC/2CMC or 2CMC/2CMC. They are only there in the mainboard of lists for that reason. In my opinion, if you have pod in play, you don't need to use that risky ladder up the chain to win. You can mostly like get ahead using pod without it.
Thanks for the read. I understand that this is a super long post but I wanted to generate more discussion. I expect people to say I'm wrong or what I'm doing is crazy and would love to discuss with you about the decisions. If you say I'm wrong though or say otherwise, please remember to put reasoning behind your argument. We all want this deck to be the best and discussing it is the best way to do so. Other things people might want to discuss are the 6 city of brass vivid land version that got attention a while ago due to a friend of mine top 8'ing a PTQ with it, fauna shaman, playing gods (podding kitchen finks into ephara to draw cards?), strangleroot geist, loxodon smiters etc. There are hundreds of creature people have considered adding, feel free to bring the up!
However I am currently running 2 Path 1 Chord maindeck over the 3 Chords your are. They were a house against BGx and MonoB infect removing threats or a turn 2 Confidant before he could get value off it.
I'm more Inclined to run a list with 4 Hierach, 1 Roots, 2 Exarch, 1 Chord, 2 Path over your changes of 3 Hierach, 3 Roots, 1 Exarch, 3 Chord but that is just my experience this past week with maindecking paths for the first time.
With the flooded groves I would rath run a Baloth+Thrun instead of threads but I can see how threads can also produce value like Lili sac and stealing other oozes
Thanks for the reply. Path is indeed good against alot of common matchups. Against BGx, the plan is to usually out aggro them in the air or as always get birthing pod online. Using Path on a turn 2 confidant, although necessary, feels very bad as you are ramping your opponent. The ground gets too clogged up with oozes and tarmogoyfs. After trying to attack the matchup from multiple perspectives, I believe the old plan of playing 4/4's is just not as effective now that they have ooze and are not playing as many bolts, bloodbraid elves or deathrites. Tarmogoyf in the midgame gets to 4/5 frequently (instant, sorcery, land, creature) and ooze gets big easy in the matchup as well. These 2 creatures just are too big for Thrun and Baloth. They did not solve the matchup for me.
As for your maindeck choices, as I said earlier there's no right or wrong, just personal playstyles. Here are my observations and opinions. If you run 2 exarchs and 0 image, you are only allowing the 2CMC/2CMC chain with birthing pod but are cutting the 2 drops you don't care about sacrificing (wall of roots) which stick around the most. This also suggests you are a bit more combo oriented, so why only 1 chord? 1 Chord also means you lean heavily on having birthing pod if you need to combo win (nothing wrong with that) and may have path as a dead card in some matchups that play without creatures (scapeshift, tron, UWR). If you only run 1 chord though I can see why you cut some Wall of Roots. I personally like chord as I feel it makes the deck more consistent. Remember also that the less chords you have, the less effective your silver bullets are as each chord adds additional copies of silver bullets like kataki, spellskite, qasali pridemage etc.
1 Chord because its good to draw but bad in the initial hand. I'm more prone to also using my exarchs as tempo plays by tapping down a land or a creature. I like'd chord before but even against scapeshift, tron, UWR chord is too slow and clunky in Kiki pod anyway. Path is decent in the tron matchups removing a Wurmcoil, Sundering Titan, Platinum Angel, Solemn,; but yes it can be dead in hand just as much as chord.
As far as baloth and thrun, baloth is free lili food (If they don't have a ooze and green open), and thrun is a hexproof beater that is also good against blue decks.
I've played on and off with Image and sometimes its a house, sometimes its a dead card or provides very little value.
So my meta of about 10 players now has THREE people playing UWR Control. One with the Kiki/Resto Angel combo, the rest without. Are there any MD changes I can make or must have SB cards I should be playing in a meta so control heavy? Currently my SB looks like this:
I'm sure everyone has had the unfortunate top-decking a pod target which is probably the only reason I'm still holding onto the second kiki. Of course only playing with one halves those odds and with V.Clique, this problem more or less disappears. My wallet is still recovering from GP Boston but perhaps I can borrow a pair of cliques to test with until then. Double blue seems significantly easier than triple red, are filters necessary? They don't enable T1 dork and there's no way to fetch+filter into T2 voice if they have bolt. My inclination would be +1 misty, +1 island instead.
You mentioned liking to play the game at instant speed with more interaction; 1 exarch in that case seems surprising. I've been playing the second exarch (no image) but can't ever remember using both to chain. Twin has shown it's a perfectly fine tempo creature on it's own. Pestermite might even be better for the role (but as always, soft to spellskite and burn).
I'm not entirely behind the Threads plan. Sigarda is the first card I jump to for beating GBx. Flying over them is generally the only way to get our beats in and, unless I'm mistaken, they have zero answers in their 75 (go go gadget lingering souls quintuple block). Wilt-leaf Liege to let Finks keep up with Goyf, Speed up the overhead beats and the occasional Baloth "gotcha". Even sower of temptation if we really want the steal effect. Creature shaped hate cards just seem far more compact given 7 tutors.
I didn't think about that fact of top-decking a pod target and not having 3 red to cast it etc... Regarding the filters/misty and island, that does not seem unreasonable. Having more basics is always good and the corner case of hallowed fountain/flooded grove hands don't come up often. Double green does come up often with chord and ooze but +1 misty,+1 island should still cover that. It is definitely worth testing and it sounds very good in my head.
The reason I shy away from exarch is because of how low impact it can be after turn 3. Tapping something after turn 4 is not the most impactful spell. Pestermite is different as it is 2 powers of evasion but significantly more vulnerable as you stated.
You talking about Sigarda made me think of the benefits of Sigarda over Thrun in the variety of matchups in modern. Sigarda has been in and out of my sideboard multiple times. Sigarda does die to colonnade + resto in the UWR matchup and can get countered so that's a win for Thrun. Sigarda is indeed quite a beater against BGx if you can get it out. I might consider trying to find a slot for it. Sower of temptation I don't think is the route we want to take when decks are siding in removal against us. Creature shaped hate cards are way better indeed and I 100% agree with you.
Resto + Colonnade double-block is very telegraphed, Supreme Verdict is going to be their primary out to Sigarda (if it resolves). Obviously Thrun is better against UW decks and Sigarda against GB so I run of each to hedge between the two match-ups and bring in both. Sower was thrown out there as a more one-to-one translation, I agree it's not the way you want to go.
Louis Kaplan posted his list on reddit. He notably includes Domri over Chord, 1 image/2 exarch, 0 eternal witness. It's probably worth reading, he's an experienced pod player.
I played a Modern event today right after work. I can't tell you how stoked I was to play this deck, and walk out with a 3-1 record. THAT NET ME FIVE MOUNTAIN DEWS.
Before I recall my games to the best of my abilities, I want to say that my sideboard is not complete. The Harmonic Sliver is going to become Ancient Grudge or Combust. Depends on what the meta calls for. Also, siding in a Gifts package is super fun when your opponent expects Pod.
I know I will get CRUCIFIED for running 4 basics. I am in a PtE heavy area. Having the 4 basics throws my opponent off quite a bit, and it helped me win past Fulminator Mage tonight.
Match 1 vs BUG Midrange:
This guy is a good friend of mine. This is his homebrew list that feels REALLY good and consistent.
Game 1: I manage to land a turn 2 Birthing Pod, it is quickly answered by Maelstrom Pulse, and I proceed to play TONS of creatures. Eventually, he attempts to stabilize with a Phyrexian Obliterator in play, and gets close. He's at 7 life, and I cast BoP to shock him, and make my two Elemental tokens 5/5 for the final swing.
Game 2: I wind up taking out Izzet Staticaster, Redcap, and one Kiki-Jiki for 3 Path. In this game, he casts three Obliterators and whomps me down with ease.
Game 3: Turn 2 pod is answered by Unravel the AEther, but there's a second one in hand. I cast it, and pod my Kitchen Finks into a Purpouros. Over the next few turns with his Dark Confidant and my Purphoros triggers, he takes a massive 15 damage, leaving him at one life. I cannot push through the two Obliterators with my guys. I have a BoP, Kitchen Finks (with a counter), and a Spellskite in play. I top deck Noble Hierarch for the win.
Match 2 vs RG Tron:
Another good friend of mine. Well known Tron player in our area, and a damn good pilot.
Game 1: His first Karn starts to take control, and is at 14 loyalty with a Purphoros and Linvala under it. I have Zealous Conscripts in hand, and only four mana available. I top deck Breeding Pool and steal his Karn, restarting the game with my guys in play. New turn 1, I cast Noble Hierarch, he takes two, and I swing for 4 damage. Next turn, I cast Pridemage and swing in for five. He scoops.
Game 2: I take out Staticaster, 4 Pods, and Phantasmal Image for the Gifts Package with Iona, and an Aven Mindcensor. I am whooped this game. Natural Tron in hand with two Karn. NEXT GAME.
Game 3: This game goes long! I use Voice, Finks, and Purphoros as bait for Karn so I don't have to deal with it later on. After some small beats here and there, I have him at 1 life. My draw for the turn is Gifts Ungiven. I pass the turn to him. He attempts to Karn my last card away, but I cast Gifts and grab Unburial Rites and Kiki-Jiki. That was the last push needed to end this terrible matchup.
Match 3 vs Living End:
Game 1-2: Mull to five both games and get split open like a coconut. Damn.
Match 4 vs Mono Green Devotion:
Game 1: Turn three pod leads to a solid turn 4 combo. Easy win.
Game 2: I mull to five and keep a solid five. It wasn't solid enough though, as a turn 2 Garruk leads to a turn 4 Genesis Wave for QUIT FOREVER. I think the total was going to be 32. I forgot.
Game 3: I bring the gifts package in and it goes off. EOT Gifts for Iona and Rites. Cast Rites, call green, instant scoop.
All in all, I LOVE PLAYING TWO DECKS IN ONE. I also brought Purphoros to test out, and he gives this deck some mad reach. He makes top deck dorks into shocks, and is just abusive with Resto Angel, persist, etc. It's pretty disgusting, and I think he should be on our radar. I can't think of any change I'd make to this list yet, I feel extremely comfortable with it so far.
I could see that, but how often are you finding yourself needing to counter a creature in those matchups? That seems like the only time this would be better, and yet it has the capability of being so much worse. Not sure the possible upside is worth the potential downside.
Generally the only way you're going to be creatureless is post-sweeper which more likely would have already drawn out my negate. I could be trigger-happy, but O.Stone or Anger generally seems worth stopping.
That being said, I haven't tested it. I'm sure backfiring once would leave me feeling sour but I thought it was pretty cool tech.
Regarding running a 4-color deck without fetchlands:
MostlyLost on Cockatrice.
More pridemages, finks and voices are the obvious suggestions. Possibly cut back to only 1 scooze as it's a non GW beater. Steward of Valoran and Knotvine Mystic are GW dorks but don't really seem worth it.
Easiest way to fit it is as a substitution for Obstinate Baloth. It will allow you to be more aggressive in that slot but you may want to find some anti-aggro tech to balance. Extra finks? More Fiery Justice?
You might even be able to get away with it in the 60. Gavony has more than demonstrated our power to go wide. Making the effect fetchable sounds good.
Lost 0-2 vs. Restore Balance Combo
Won 2-1 vs. Mono Black Infect
Won 2-0 vs. Junk (Outvalued hardcore)
Looks like I need to bring in more hate vs. Restore balance combo but the good hate vs them is bad vs. Pod... even though I just lose to them being able to activate borderposts...
I was talking w/ some people about running 1 less chord and only 1 wall of roots for wall of omens and blade splicer.
Or is MD path just better?
Mimeoplasm Midrange, CHAINER CHAINER HIGH VOLTAGE
Rafiq of the Astral Slide, 67land.dec Child of Alara, Gisela <3 Sunforger
TRADE!?WUBRGMy Pauper Cube
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper, Phage the Uncastable, Azusa Lost but Stompy, Crosis Combo Breaker, All-In-Skullbriar, Rafiq/Jenara ETB army, Hazezon Swarm, Glissa Voltron!, Jarad Zombie Tribal, Zedruu Pillowfort, Reaper King Artifact Shenanagains
I apologize for being absent and not more actively participating in the discussion on this thread. I have been busy due to school but have still been keeping track of what's been going on here. I just wanted to give everyone my current list and thoughts about the deck, including the numerous discussion on variations of this deck. The thoughts that I'm going to write will probably be rather controversial and will guaranteed generate a lot of arguments against them. I will be glad to hear them out and discuss further. In my opinion, there have been a lot of variations of this deck and I think what people decide to play in their 75 is ultimately based on their playstyle. There is very rarely a straight up right or wrong answer. Now that that is out of the way, let's delve into some topics I want to discuss.
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Noble Hierarch
3 Wall of Roots
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Voice of Resurgence
1 Spellskite
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Kitchen Finks
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Eternal Witness
1 Deceiver Exarch
4 Restoration Angel
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Zealous Conscripts
1 Kiki-jiki, Mirror Breaker
4 Birthing Pod
3 Chord of Calling
Land
4 Arid Mesa
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Gavony Township
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Stomping Ground
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Steam Vents
1 Temple Garden
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Breeding Pool
2 Flooded Grove
2 Threads of Disloyalty
2 Path to Exile
2 Combust
1 Fiery Justice
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Loxodon Hierarch
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Avalanche Riders
2 Negate
1 Kataki, War's Wage
Kitchen Finks
Many of the decklists I have seen on MTGgoldfish and here contain 2-3 Kitchen Finks in the main 60. Over the past months I have begun to more and more shy away from this card. It is by all means a very solid card, but I've found myself, in the end, only putting 1 in my main 60. Most people will probably think I'm crazy. Having 1 is essential for Podding up, the ability to gain life and having the sweet interaction of podding a finks into a restoration angel to seal away games in some matchups. I feel as though however, kitchen finks is making less and less of an impact against most matchups. This is compared to its other alternatives in my mind, voice and scavenging ooze. Against the top 4 modern archetypes (affinity, BGx, twin, Pod), kitchen finks is mediocre at best. It does nothing to stop affinity or help the combo in that matchup. It gets outclassed by tarmogoyf and is terrible against scavenging ooze against BGx. It is ok against twin but gets blocked by a deceiver exarch. Against pod, it usually isn't interacting well against voice, ooze, walls and angels. Against combo, tron and scapeshift, it is rather embarassing. It shines against burn and zoo, which are not as popular and still winnable with 1 finks. Its alternative, scavenging ooze and voice on the other hand, I believe are much better against the field. They interact favorably with your plan and interact with your opponent to disrupt their gameplan. Ooze is good against UWR, twin, Jund, Pod, creature decks, graveyard decks etc. Similarly, I would rather have voice against UWR, twin, Jund, pod, U tron, scapeshift etc. I am just starting to realize I would rather have ooze or voice in over finks. Opponents shrug their shoulders when they see finks, but have headaches when they see voice or ooze. The one downside is that you don't gain incremental value with restoration angel. TL:DR Ooze and voice are more useful in more matchups than Kitchen Finks. They allow you to interact with your opponent and further your plan.
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Across all lists I have seen, Kiki-Jiki has always been a 2 of. Even I for the longest time have done so. But why? When I first started playing this decks years ago, it was a 3-of with 4 restoration angels and more chords. The combo was a huge part of the gameplan and having more draws for combo pieces helped. Now, I've been starting to realize, I only need 1. The arguments I can see for 2 is that, you have a higher chance to draw it, and that you have a backup if your first one dies. You can also say that pre-board, you win more games through combo as your opponent is less prepared for it, so 2 kiki is better. As I've grown more and more skilled with the deck, I've realized that I only need 1. In my games, if I'm going to go for the combo, I've already maneuvered the game state so that I either my opponent can't stop it or I have to go for it as a last ditch resort or I lose. In both cases, I don't need a backup one (though if I REALLY did, there's always eternal witness). Granted I have had games where casting Kiki-jiki without the combo on board to copy voice, finks or eternal witness every turn have won me the game. In those cases however, I'm already had and any spell would have been great. In most cases however, I'm not too much a fan of having Kiki in hand. I run 3 chords along with the 4 pods, so there's no shortage of ways to put one into play when needed, but I don't think I need 2. TL:DR 1 Kiki-jiki Mirror breaker in mainboard because I find no reason to have 2.
Path to Exile Mainboard
I myself and the lists on MTGO have been playing 2 paths mainboard. Why? I came to this conclusion from the fact that I was siding out my second kiki and finks every game for paths. Again the top 4, (affinity, BGx, twin and pod) all are matchups which you sideboard in path. So why not just put it main deck so you can have that slight advantage? There are matchups where its terrible (scapeshift, tron, storm etc come to mind) but mostly its good. I can see why people would do so! My latest list however plays 0 mainboard and 2 sideboard and you'll see why later. Again the argument of combo being your main plan game 1 is relevant here. TL:DR Most matchups you board in path, so why not have it main deck?
Vendilion Clique
This is probably the biggest change and arguably the most controversial of them all. After playing with 2 path mainboard for a long while and still not being happy with the BGx matchup and various other matchups, I searched high and low for solutions. Over the years, I've seen all the things people have tried to play in this deck and I arrived at Vendilion Clique. Users in this thread have also suggested it in the past. I myself was skeptical but have now been convinced after trying it out over various tournaments and having success. It was embarrassingly good against combo, scapeshift, UWR and twin. I stepped back and looked at my plan against BGx and realized I was winning the games through restoration angel beats. Vendilion Clique acts on the same axis. They are weak in the air and deal lots of damage to themselves (though lingering souls might be a thing now). The best argument against Clique and one which I can 100% agree is that it costs double blue. Like we really needed to make our manabase worse. I have however realized that my manabase hasn't really changed over the time my deck has changed. Now that I'm playing 1 kiki-jiki which I'm rarely casting, I don't need fire-lit thickets which I believe are due to the old days when this list used to play 3 kiki-jiki and wanted to cast it turn 4 ever game. A simple switch of 2 fire-lit thicket to 2 flooded groves makes it better though no less atrocious on paper. In total I have 3 red cards, 1 redcap, 1 kiki jiki and 1 zealous conscripts. Do I really need fire-lit thicket for these late drops? Casting voice into clique seems impossible at first, but again and again I've been able to do it. I've played this deck so much that when fetching, I can see how the next 3-4 turns will look and the lands I get will allow me to best do it without taking damage. Fetching with this deck is not an easy task and can easily cost you the game. I've had success with Cliques and will be having 2 in my 60 for my next 2 PTQ's. I may be wrong but I'm very optimistic. It shores up a lot of bad matchups and helps in the good matchups. It is always quite bonkers with restoration angel as you can imagine.Clique is at its worst against zoo, merfolk and affinity so keep that in mind. TL:DR 2 Vendilion Cliques mainboard. Yes I'm crazy but it works!
Those are the big changes and the controversial ones in my eyes. A lot of the changes and decisions I've made all have one thing in common: They all allow me to interact with my opponent. The 3rd chord and 4th restoration angel so many people shy away from along now with the 2 cliques allow me to play a lot of my game at their end step. Using wall of roots and instant speed spells allow us to speed things up even more and unload our hand faster, play spells on our turn and their turn. We all enjoy the times when we leave mana open and our opponent looks distraught going into the tank about what you could possibly chord up. Voice and ooze over finks, clique, more chords is more interaction with my opponent, stopping their plan and furthering ours.
The following are other things I've decided
2 Threads of Disloyalty Sideboard
I was unhappy about my BGx matchup and decided to put these in my sb now that I have flooded groves. Tarmogoyf and Ooze were the problematic cards and this solves it beautifully as they usually side out most of their Abrupt Decays postboard. If not you can always pod their creature or steal it with resto angel permanently before they decay it. If they use a removal spell on the creature you stole, nice 2 for 1!
3 Hierach and 3 Wall of Roots
This is due to the fact that I have 3 chords and most instant speed spells which allow me to utilize Wall of Roots better. The 4 angels and 2 Cliques take over the skies while it gets clammed up on the ground. I can however see playing a fourth hierarch over a wall as a turn 1 accelerant is always more powerful and it also fixes your mana. It is up to you.
4 Restoration Angel, 3 Chord
Most lists I see are running 3 Angels and 2 Chords. I like to play the game at instant speed more and have more interaction. I like having an extra chord for slightly more adaptability. It is however justifiable to see less depending on your version and playstyle
0 phantasmal image, 1 exarch
I've gone over this multiple times but I just don't see the need for having 2 whole slots for unexciting creatures only to allow for birthing pod to combo at 1CMC/2CMC or 2CMC/2CMC. They are only there in the mainboard of lists for that reason. In my opinion, if you have pod in play, you don't need to use that risky ladder up the chain to win. You can mostly like get ahead using pod without it.
Thanks for the read. I understand that this is a super long post but I wanted to generate more discussion. I expect people to say I'm wrong or what I'm doing is crazy and would love to discuss with you about the decisions. If you say I'm wrong though or say otherwise, please remember to put reasoning behind your argument. We all want this deck to be the best and discussing it is the best way to do so. Other things people might want to discuss are the 6 city of brass vivid land version that got attention a while ago due to a friend of mine top 8'ing a PTQ with it, fauna shaman, playing gods (podding kitchen finks into ephara to draw cards?), strangleroot geist, loxodon smiters etc. There are hundreds of creature people have considered adding, feel free to bring the up!
However I am currently running 2 Path 1 Chord maindeck over the 3 Chords your are. They were a house against BGx and MonoB infect removing threats or a turn 2 Confidant before he could get value off it.
I'm more Inclined to run a list with 4 Hierach, 1 Roots, 2 Exarch, 1 Chord, 2 Path over your changes of 3 Hierach, 3 Roots, 1 Exarch, 3 Chord but that is just my experience this past week with maindecking paths for the first time.
With the flooded groves I would rath run a Baloth+Thrun instead of threads but I can see how threads can also produce value like Lili sac and stealing other oozes
Thanks for the reply. Path is indeed good against alot of common matchups. Against BGx, the plan is to usually out aggro them in the air or as always get birthing pod online. Using Path on a turn 2 confidant, although necessary, feels very bad as you are ramping your opponent. The ground gets too clogged up with oozes and tarmogoyfs. After trying to attack the matchup from multiple perspectives, I believe the old plan of playing 4/4's is just not as effective now that they have ooze and are not playing as many bolts, bloodbraid elves or deathrites. Tarmogoyf in the midgame gets to 4/5 frequently (instant, sorcery, land, creature) and ooze gets big easy in the matchup as well. These 2 creatures just are too big for Thrun and Baloth. They did not solve the matchup for me.
As for your maindeck choices, as I said earlier there's no right or wrong, just personal playstyles. Here are my observations and opinions. If you run 2 exarchs and 0 image, you are only allowing the 2CMC/2CMC chain with birthing pod but are cutting the 2 drops you don't care about sacrificing (wall of roots) which stick around the most. This also suggests you are a bit more combo oriented, so why only 1 chord? 1 Chord also means you lean heavily on having birthing pod if you need to combo win (nothing wrong with that) and may have path as a dead card in some matchups that play without creatures (scapeshift, tron, UWR). If you only run 1 chord though I can see why you cut some Wall of Roots. I personally like chord as I feel it makes the deck more consistent. Remember also that the less chords you have, the less effective your silver bullets are as each chord adds additional copies of silver bullets like kataki, spellskite, qasali pridemage etc.
As far as baloth and thrun, baloth is free lili food (If they don't have a ooze and green open), and thrun is a hexproof beater that is also good against blue decks.
I've played on and off with Image and sometimes its a house, sometimes its a dead card or provides very little value.
But you are right it comes down to playstyles
2 Combust
1 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Negate
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Fiery Justice
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Avalanche Riders
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thragtusk
I'm sure everyone has had the unfortunate top-decking a pod target which is probably the only reason I'm still holding onto the second kiki. Of course only playing with one halves those odds and with V.Clique, this problem more or less disappears. My wallet is still recovering from GP Boston but perhaps I can borrow a pair of cliques to test with until then. Double blue seems significantly easier than triple red, are filters necessary? They don't enable T1 dork and there's no way to fetch+filter into T2 voice if they have bolt. My inclination would be +1 misty, +1 island instead.
You mentioned liking to play the game at instant speed with more interaction; 1 exarch in that case seems surprising. I've been playing the second exarch (no image) but can't ever remember using both to chain. Twin has shown it's a perfectly fine tempo creature on it's own. Pestermite might even be better for the role (but as always, soft to spellskite and burn).
I'm not entirely behind the Threads plan. Sigarda is the first card I jump to for beating GBx. Flying over them is generally the only way to get our beats in and, unless I'm mistaken, they have zero answers in their 75 (go go gadget lingering souls quintuple block). Wilt-leaf Liege to let Finks keep up with Goyf, Speed up the overhead beats and the occasional Baloth "gotcha". Even sower of temptation if we really want the steal effect. Creature shaped hate cards just seem far more compact given 7 tutors.
I didn't think about that fact of top-decking a pod target and not having 3 red to cast it etc... Regarding the filters/misty and island, that does not seem unreasonable. Having more basics is always good and the corner case of hallowed fountain/flooded grove hands don't come up often. Double green does come up often with chord and ooze but +1 misty,+1 island should still cover that. It is definitely worth testing and it sounds very good in my head.
The reason I shy away from exarch is because of how low impact it can be after turn 3. Tapping something after turn 4 is not the most impactful spell. Pestermite is different as it is 2 powers of evasion but significantly more vulnerable as you stated.
You talking about Sigarda made me think of the benefits of Sigarda over Thrun in the variety of matchups in modern. Sigarda has been in and out of my sideboard multiple times. Sigarda does die to colonnade + resto in the UWR matchup and can get countered so that's a win for Thrun. Sigarda is indeed quite a beater against BGx if you can get it out. I might consider trying to find a slot for it. Sower of temptation I don't think is the route we want to take when decks are siding in removal against us. Creature shaped hate cards are way better indeed and I 100% agree with you.
Sean Mckeown was also advocating scalding tarns and verdant catacombs. As of GP Boston, it looks like he settled on 4 misty/3 scalding/2 mesa. I'm not convinced on scalding before mesa but it's always an option to run the 9th fetch instead of an island too.
Resto + Colonnade double-block is very telegraphed, Supreme Verdict is going to be their primary out to Sigarda (if it resolves). Obviously Thrun is better against UW decks and Sigarda against GB so I run of each to hedge between the two match-ups and bring in both. Sower was thrown out there as a more one-to-one translation, I agree it's not the way you want to go.
3 Noble Hierarch
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Spellskite
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Wall of Omens
3 Voice of Resurgence
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Deceiver Exarch
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
3 Restoration Angel
1 Zealous Conscripts
2 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
4 Birthing Pod
4 Arid Mesa
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Stomping Ground
1 Steam Vents
1 Temple Garden
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Fire-Lit Thicket
1 Razorverge Thicket
1 Gavony Township
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Island
3 Path to Exile
3 Gifts Ungiven
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Unburial Rites
Before I recall my games to the best of my abilities, I want to say that my sideboard is not complete. The Harmonic Sliver is going to become Ancient Grudge or Combust. Depends on what the meta calls for. Also, siding in a Gifts package is super fun when your opponent expects Pod.
I know I will get CRUCIFIED for running 4 basics. I am in a PtE heavy area. Having the 4 basics throws my opponent off quite a bit, and it helped me win past Fulminator Mage tonight.
Match 1 vs BUG Midrange:
This guy is a good friend of mine. This is his homebrew list that feels REALLY good and consistent.
Game 1: I manage to land a turn 2 Birthing Pod, it is quickly answered by Maelstrom Pulse, and I proceed to play TONS of creatures. Eventually, he attempts to stabilize with a Phyrexian Obliterator in play, and gets close. He's at 7 life, and I cast BoP to shock him, and make my two Elemental tokens 5/5 for the final swing.
Game 2: I wind up taking out Izzet Staticaster, Redcap, and one Kiki-Jiki for 3 Path. In this game, he casts three Obliterators and whomps me down with ease.
Game 3: Turn 2 pod is answered by Unravel the AEther, but there's a second one in hand. I cast it, and pod my Kitchen Finks into a Purpouros. Over the next few turns with his Dark Confidant and my Purphoros triggers, he takes a massive 15 damage, leaving him at one life. I cannot push through the two Obliterators with my guys. I have a BoP, Kitchen Finks (with a counter), and a Spellskite in play. I top deck Noble Hierarch for the win.
Match 2 vs RG Tron:
Another good friend of mine. Well known Tron player in our area, and a damn good pilot.
Game 1: His first Karn starts to take control, and is at 14 loyalty with a Purphoros and Linvala under it. I have Zealous Conscripts in hand, and only four mana available. I top deck Breeding Pool and steal his Karn, restarting the game with my guys in play. New turn 1, I cast Noble Hierarch, he takes two, and I swing for 4 damage. Next turn, I cast Pridemage and swing in for five. He scoops.
Game 2: I take out Staticaster, 4 Pods, and Phantasmal Image for the Gifts Package with Iona, and an Aven Mindcensor. I am whooped this game. Natural Tron in hand with two Karn. NEXT GAME.
Game 3: This game goes long! I use Voice, Finks, and Purphoros as bait for Karn so I don't have to deal with it later on. After some small beats here and there, I have him at 1 life. My draw for the turn is Gifts Ungiven. I pass the turn to him. He attempts to Karn my last card away, but I cast Gifts and grab Unburial Rites and Kiki-Jiki. That was the last push needed to end this terrible matchup.
Match 3 vs Living End:
Game 1-2: Mull to five both games and get split open like a coconut. Damn.
Match 4 vs Mono Green Devotion:
Game 1: Turn three pod leads to a solid turn 4 combo. Easy win.
Game 2: I mull to five and keep a solid five. It wasn't solid enough though, as a turn 2 Garruk leads to a turn 4 Genesis Wave for QUIT FOREVER. I think the total was going to be 32. I forgot.
Game 3: I bring the gifts package in and it goes off. EOT Gifts for Iona and Rites. Cast Rites, call green, instant scoop.
All in all, I LOVE PLAYING TWO DECKS IN ONE. I also brought Purphoros to test out, and he gives this deck some mad reach. He makes top deck dorks into shocks, and is just abusive with Resto Angel, persist, etc. It's pretty disgusting, and I think he should be on our radar. I can't think of any change I'd make to this list yet, I feel extremely comfortable with it so far.
DCI Level 1 Judge