I was thinking of adding it to Ancient Grudge but you are right.
I'm definitely ready to experiment with this deck. I'll be running Melira Pod tomorrow until I can buy/trade for the cards I need. I think I mainly need Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and Grove of the Burnwillows is anyone has any extra for trade!
Oops. My bad then. Thanks Lectrys, and sorry for the mistake.
Personnally I just swapped one of my Townships for Minamo, the reasoning being that KotR could act as the second Township copy.
Now that I have Minamo as a second blue source, I'm thinking of getting a second Sacred Foundry or Stomping Ground (probably the latter) instead of my Steam Vents. I never really need more than one non-Minamo source of blue anyway, and any fetch can still get a blue shockland even with Steam Vents out.
Can someone explain the KoTR and Minamo interaction? Or is it just used to get a second activation out of Kiki Jiki?
Minamo allows you to untap Kiki-Jiki in response to removal, which lets you make infinite hasty dudes before you lose your Kiki. KotR is just a way to fetch it that also doubles as a solid body and a mana dork
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"The imagination is not a State: it is the Human existence itself." - William Blake
Minamo allows you to untap Kiki-Jiki in response to removal, which lets you make infinite hasty dudes before you lose your Kiki. KotR is just a way to fetch it that also doubles as a solid body and a mana dork
which, as far as I can tell, is the MO of this deck: great for the combo, but even if you arent assembling it, the cards are still mostly useful.
which, as far as I can tell, is the MO of this deck: great for the combo, but even if you arent assembling it, the cards are still mostly useful.
Knight has value as a fat body and allows for a toolbox of utility lands to be squeezed in. Minamo is less useful, as the only maindeck legends are Kiki and Linvala, but it does a better job of protecting the combo than Sejiri Steppe.
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"The imagination is not a State: it is the Human existence itself." - William Blake
A few things about sideboards. How has everyone felt about Ethersworn Canonist lately? I feel Storm and Living End aren't really huge right now so it's almost never sided in for me. I have also been playing with Fiend Hunter but haven't been impressed. I feel you often want that type of effect against Jund for Olivia and Goyf but they have so much removal it's almost useless. I'll be playing this tomorrow in a FNM. I plan on giving KotR and Minamo a try. Here's my sideboard I plan on testing out
I remember Ari Lax writing that he really liked a one of Bant Charm after GP Detroit. I really like the versatility of it. I feel safe bringing it game 2 against decks that I'm not sure have Torpor Orb or not but don't want to bring in extra artifact removal. I'm also considering trying out Mirran Crusader instead of Sigarda. Sigarda can be very slow against Jund and Living End and might not have a huge effect once she drops. Mirran Crusader can chump block Goyfs and attack through all of Jund's creatures. With Exalted, it's even more of a threat. Sure it dies to Bolt, but it cannot be hit by any other removal from the deck, and that's one less Bolt that hits a mana dork.
I'm starting to get back into this deck now that it's sort of back under the radar, but I've totally forgotten what we do vs. splinter twin.
Path to Exile is only mediocre against them, since they often/usually have a counterspell. They can also often get a combo set up before we can pod into defense like Glen-Elendra Archmage. I would try to race, but the ammount of burn they pack makes that pretty hard. Anyone have a solid plan?
Maindeck Linvala, Keeper of Silence does a pretty good job of stopping Twin. I also run a maindeck Spellskite which not only protects our Pod and combo, but can redirect their Splinter Twin. Other than that, maybe board in more removal and you can slow them down by tapping out their mana during their upkeep with Deceiver Exarch.
Maindeck Linvala, Keeper of Silence does a pretty good job of stopping Twin. I also run a maindeck Spellskite which not only protects our Pod and combo, but can redirect their Splinter Twin. Other than that, maybe board in more removal and you can slow them down by tapping out their mana during their upkeep with Deceiver Exarch.
Ooh, thanks, totally forgot about the spellskite tech. I guess you can also usually pod into it pretty quickly from a mana dork.
I'm starting to get back into this deck now that it's sort of back under the radar, but I've totally forgotten what we do vs. splinter twin.
Path to Exile is only mediocre against them, since they often/usually have a counterspell. They can also often get a combo set up before we can pod into defense like Glen-Elendra Archmage. I would try to race, but the ammount of burn they pack makes that pretty hard. Anyone have a solid plan?
Honestly Twin is one of our worst matchups out there. I really hate playing against it.
I'm starting to get back into this deck now that it's sort of back under the radar, but I've totally forgotten what we do vs. splinter twin.
Path to Exile is only mediocre against them, since they often/usually have a counterspell. They can also often get a combo set up before we can pod into defense like Glen-Elendra Archmage. I would try to race, but the ammount of burn they pack makes that pretty hard. Anyone have a solid plan?
Try to set up layers of hate. They have the tools to deal will all of our answers, so you have to make them fight through different effects. Path or Linvala or Spellskite etc might not do it alone, but when combined the make a substantial barrier. Remember, you only need to slow them down so you can win first.
I like boarding in Negate against Twin to force them to play more fair (it protecting the combo is a plus). With our Flash creature density, holding up Negate doesn't suck up as much tempo as you'd think.
Try slamming down your expensive stuff while Twin has only 0-2 mana up (or no red sources, or no blue sources) on your main phase. Start holding up mana and bluffing disruption like a coward as soon as they can cast Exarch into Twin.
I run 4x birds and 2x walls, 2x heirarch. Wall is good for being able to slow down aggro and you can activate it the turn it enters play which is good. You can also pod it into exarch.
Hey =)
I really think Splinter Twin is not that bad as it seems. It's hard to deal with the turn 4, specially if you are on the draw, but otherwise the "layers of protections" deal perfectly with the problems. You have spellskite, linvala, Glen-Elendra, Qasali (to kill the twin) and all of them can attack and put a decent clock on the opponent (ok spellskite does not xP). Voice is awesome. Even ethersworn cannonist is cool against them (believe me i tried it and it's very nice...) But besides that, you have access to Combust post sideboard. They have no way of dealing with combust. You can easily be aggressive with voices, finks, etc... while holding combust in hand.
even if we are on the play its a very hard matchup.
We have to naturally find one of hate cards, which means we have to naturally cast it and hope it resolves. We can never safely cast a Pod otherwise they just combo off. We really dont have much of a game one against them unless we get very lucky.
I felt very confident with this decklist today. Knight of the Reliquary didn't really come up. There was one time where I had the Minamo with blue mana available for protection, but my Kiki got Remanded so it didn't get to do anything. Other than that, she helped as a beater in one game. I do really like her instead of a third Finks though so I'll keep her and the Minamo in the deck.
Strangleroot Geist is a card I've tried numerous times now and have only got to combo with it once. I think that two slot can really be an number of things and work well. I do like that there's potential with it to combo so I'll continue to test it as well. I'm constantly swapping out this slot for either a third Voice of Resurgence or Tarmogoyf, all which are fine as well in my opinion.
Sigarda is a card I've never been terribly impressed with in the board. Against Jund/BGx decks, she's just very slow and if they can handle our mana dorks early game, she might never end up coming down. Against Living End, she's also slow, especially cause our mana is more than likely going to be attacked by Fulminator Mages, Avalanche Riders, and Beast Withins. I'm not sure what else I'd like more in this slot though. Ethersworn Canonist has never been boarded in for me, there's no Storm or Living End around and I find Canonist weak against Burn and Twin. Maybe you guys have a better experience with these cards and can enlighten me on them.
I've been very happy with Bant Charm in my board. Tonight, I used all three modes on it. Against Affinity, it's a slightly slower Ancient Grudge, but can also tuck Wurmcoils, and counter counterspells and removal. It's a very easy card to bring in against most decks.
I agree that Twin is one of our worst matchups. I feel like I need a lot of luck in my matches against them. They need to not have a turn 4 win against us and I need to draw a lot of hate to win against them. That being said, we definitely have a chance to beat them. My local meta has a lot of people playing UWR Twin which is a little slower so we have an extra turn or two to assemble something, but they also have more removal which can be very annoying at times. I also thing our other two bad matchups are Tron and Burn. We have a hard time beating Tron and Twins best hands, but any misstep they make, we can easily capitalize on it. Burn is just miserable IMO. I still am trying to figure out a way to consistently beat them. There's really no Burn in my meta though so I don't get to test that matchup all too often.
I'm going to start posting here a lot more. I like where the conversations have been going lately. I've done a lot of testing with this deck, I play it at least once to twice a month at FNMs and do a lot of testing outside of that with it as well. Hopefully I can help contribute to tuning this deck to being the best it can be.
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But just drop him on T2 as often as you can.
I guess in theory you could have Chord in the SB. But I plan on keeping the SB above for a while and maybe trying Shatter Spree.
I dont think shattering spree is better than Ancient Grudge, Creeping Corrosion, or Fracturing Gust.
I was thinking of adding it to Ancient Grudge but you are right.
I'm definitely ready to experiment with this deck. I'll be running Melira Pod tomorrow until I can buy/trade for the cards I need. I think I mainly need Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and Grove of the Burnwillows is anyone has any extra for trade!
Modern ~ GR Tron
Minamo allows you to untap Kiki-Jiki in response to removal, which lets you make infinite hasty dudes before you lose your Kiki. KotR is just a way to fetch it that also doubles as a solid body and a mana dork
"Stoned players can't attack, block, or play spells or abilities."
which, as far as I can tell, is the MO of this deck: great for the combo, but even if you arent assembling it, the cards are still mostly useful.
Knight has value as a fat body and allows for a toolbox of utility lands to be squeezed in. Minamo is less useful, as the only maindeck legends are Kiki and Linvala, but it does a better job of protecting the combo than Sejiri Steppe.
"Stoned players can't attack, block, or play spells or abilities."
3 Path to Exile
2 Negate
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Sowing Salt
1 Avalanche Riders
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Bant Charm
I remember Ari Lax writing that he really liked a one of Bant Charm after GP Detroit. I really like the versatility of it. I feel safe bringing it game 2 against decks that I'm not sure have Torpor Orb or not but don't want to bring in extra artifact removal. I'm also considering trying out Mirran Crusader instead of Sigarda. Sigarda can be very slow against Jund and Living End and might not have a huge effect once she drops. Mirran Crusader can chump block Goyfs and attack through all of Jund's creatures. With Exalted, it's even more of a threat. Sure it dies to Bolt, but it cannot be hit by any other removal from the deck, and that's one less Bolt that hits a mana dork.
Path to Exile is only mediocre against them, since they often/usually have a counterspell. They can also often get a combo set up before we can pod into defense like Glen-Elendra Archmage. I would try to race, but the ammount of burn they pack makes that pretty hard. Anyone have a solid plan?
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
Ooh, thanks, totally forgot about the spellskite tech. I guess you can also usually pod into it pretty quickly from a mana dork.
Honestly Twin is one of our worst matchups out there. I really hate playing against it.
Try to set up layers of hate. They have the tools to deal will all of our answers, so you have to make them fight through different effects. Path or Linvala or Spellskite etc might not do it alone, but when combined the make a substantial barrier. Remember, you only need to slow them down so you can win first.
Try slamming down your expensive stuff while Twin has only 0-2 mana up (or no red sources, or no blue sources) on your main phase. Start holding up mana and bluffing disruption like a coward as soon as they can cast Exarch into Twin.
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
even if we are on the play its a very hard matchup.
We have to naturally find one of hate cards, which means we have to naturally cast it and hope it resolves. We can never safely cast a Pod otherwise they just combo off. We really dont have much of a game one against them unless we get very lucky.
Tonight I went
2-1 UWR Twin
2-1 UWR Twin
2-1 Affinity
ID GR Tron
Here's the list I was playing
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Arid Mesa
1 Stomping Ground
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Steam Vents
1 Temple Garden
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Breeding Pool
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Gavony Township
1 Rugged Prairie
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Birds of Paradise
1 Sylvan Caryatid
2 Voice of Resurgence
1 Strangleroot Geist
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Spellskite
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Deceiver Exarch
3 Restoration Angel
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Zealous Conscripts
2 Domri Rade
3 Path to Exile
2 Negate
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Avalanche Riders
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Bant Charm
1 Sowing Salt
I felt very confident with this decklist today. Knight of the Reliquary didn't really come up. There was one time where I had the Minamo with blue mana available for protection, but my Kiki got Remanded so it didn't get to do anything. Other than that, she helped as a beater in one game. I do really like her instead of a third Finks though so I'll keep her and the Minamo in the deck.
Strangleroot Geist is a card I've tried numerous times now and have only got to combo with it once. I think that two slot can really be an number of things and work well. I do like that there's potential with it to combo so I'll continue to test it as well. I'm constantly swapping out this slot for either a third Voice of Resurgence or Tarmogoyf, all which are fine as well in my opinion.
Sigarda is a card I've never been terribly impressed with in the board. Against Jund/BGx decks, she's just very slow and if they can handle our mana dorks early game, she might never end up coming down. Against Living End, she's also slow, especially cause our mana is more than likely going to be attacked by Fulminator Mages, Avalanche Riders, and Beast Withins. I'm not sure what else I'd like more in this slot though. Ethersworn Canonist has never been boarded in for me, there's no Storm or Living End around and I find Canonist weak against Burn and Twin. Maybe you guys have a better experience with these cards and can enlighten me on them.
I've been very happy with Bant Charm in my board. Tonight, I used all three modes on it. Against Affinity, it's a slightly slower Ancient Grudge, but can also tuck Wurmcoils, and counter counterspells and removal. It's a very easy card to bring in against most decks.
I agree that Twin is one of our worst matchups. I feel like I need a lot of luck in my matches against them. They need to not have a turn 4 win against us and I need to draw a lot of hate to win against them. That being said, we definitely have a chance to beat them. My local meta has a lot of people playing UWR Twin which is a little slower so we have an extra turn or two to assemble something, but they also have more removal which can be very annoying at times. I also thing our other two bad matchups are Tron and Burn. We have a hard time beating Tron and Twins best hands, but any misstep they make, we can easily capitalize on it. Burn is just miserable IMO. I still am trying to figure out a way to consistently beat them. There's really no Burn in my meta though so I don't get to test that matchup all too often.
I'm going to start posting here a lot more. I like where the conversations have been going lately. I've done a lot of testing with this deck, I play it at least once to twice a month at FNMs and do a lot of testing outside of that with it as well. Hopefully I can help contribute to tuning this deck to being the best it can be.