12th blue source seems like a nonexistent problem, 4th flier seems veeeeeeeery marginal, etc. But I mean, it's just 1 slot and if you like it that's cool, I'm just saying if you've gone so far as to play only one then you can't argue for the card to be a must and that it's important for the gameplan, anymore (something I thought already when people cut them to 2).
P.S. Not saying you specifically argue that way, just that a lot of people do!
xSean0607: Don't think I'm just blindly removing it from the deck. I've played with the Eyes just as much as the next guy (less than some, more than some) and I still wont accept a 2-off that needs to be drawn early (I'm OK with 2-off Titan because lategame) is "fundamental to our strategy".
I have been testing with 3 Flickerwisp, 1 Dispel, 2 Negates & 2 Mana Leaks exactly lately and will run it on paper tonight. My thoughts: It's not that hard, just know ("feel", but know your opponents decklists) when you can tapout for a Wisp if you're holding a CS. A Wisp on a blank board isn't that important so hold it. It's OK to wait to have Dispel or even Negate up if you're playing vs a deck with must counters.
Restoration Angel has been suggested, and while it's an excellent card, it doesn't fit in with the Sun Titan plan, which is really what the deck is about.
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Well, I can saw a woman in two, but you won't wanna look in the box when I'm through.
Hey everyone. I know I have been a major contributor here for this deck over the past few weeks and while I will still be tuning in to give my ideas, advice and comments, I won't be able to play test this deck for the time being. My truck was broken into this weekend and they took my backpack with all my decks, trade stuff, mats and such in it. :-( My insurance should hopefully cover the total value of the lost cards but until I get that check and can purchase the list again, I won't be able to actually play with the deck. Soon as I get it back I'll start doing match results again.
Existenz: As mentioned it's because of the anti-synergy with ST. Snappy is played as a 1-off in some decks (especially by those playing 2 Gifts).
Exatraz: That is about the biggest bummer I've heard in a while, you have my sympathy and thanks for all your contribution so far (and in the future, one can always theorize even when not playing). I hope things work out.
I just got back from my first night playing with the deck, and it was quite the success with me going 2-1. This thing is crazy fun to play. I ended up cutting a Sun Titan from the list I posted back on the bottom of page 27. I don't want to type out a long report, but I have some questions about the deck and the match ups that I did play. You guys don't have to every answer every single one of these questions, but if you wanna chime in on a couple of them it would be really helpful.
Game 1 - U/R Storm1-0
I won the first game due to some Lone Missionary pressure and him fizzling. The 2nd I won with some pressure and a Gideon to stop empty the warrens.
My questions here are general questions for playing against this deck. I found myself holding up counters for things like past in flames or pyromancer's ascension, but this meant I was often letting the initial ritual get cast. Does this seem generally correct or is it something that really has to be evaluated case by case? Also, what are ideal meddling mage targets?
Game 2 W/B Tokens1-1
I lost the first game, and the only major misplay I saw here was trying to wait a turn on my wrath effect to get more value. The second game was awful; I had to mulligan a 0- and a 1-land hand before getting stuck with junk and being toughtquisition'd into a Lili ultimate.
I will definitely be siding in celestial purges for paths from now on, but how else do you approach this matchup? Do you bring in Surgical Extraction? Meddling Mages? Wall of Omens out? It feels like I have more dead cards than live ones against this deck even when it comes to counters like Ojutai's Command or Dispel.
Game 3 Jund2-1
Does this usually fall in our favor? It seemed like I was in control for most of these two games. First game took forever, but I finally got to do crazy Emeria shenanigans at the end. The second game was a bit quicker, and I just sat back and rode my answers to victory.
This one doesn't bring up as many questions. Jund seems like a straightforward deck, and the sideboarding seems pretty easy as far as putting stuff in.
Again, the deck was a ton of fun. I'm definitely looking forward to playing some more modern with this (and maybe others) in the future!
Edit: Also, R.I.P. Exatraz' Decks Good luck with the insurance
thepopeofgrope:
I don't mind holding CS up for Ascension but I would gladly fire off a CS on the first or second ritual, but it really is a go by feel and case by case basis. I would MM for Grapeshot, especially since I doubt they'll bring in bolts against us? I used to play UR storm but this was years ago...
Haven't played vs BW Tokens but Verdict, Negate, Dispel (not sure about their list so unsure about this?), Disenchant and probably Purge all seem really good in the MU.
Jund is a grindfest and probably one of our closer MUs but from my feel we have a slight edge. Like you said it's straightforward and just hinges on not making any misplays. It reminds me of the Twin matchup in that regard.
Sadly modern didn't fire at my LGS tonight and I had to play a *****ty draft. On a funnier note I was asked if I had a Gifts for trade by a guy who apparently just started playing it too, we're spreading!
Kevincostner: Thanks for the thoughts. The storm guy actually did bring in lightning bolts for some reason, so I guess I'll just have to be careful in the future against him. I also think I had some rough draws as far as the tokens were concerned, but it seems more clear now on how we should be looking to play against them. I will probably be cutting a mortarpod for something in the future. Maybe another negate considering all of the decks I saw last night
I run 3 Detention Sphere and 3 Flickerwisp (and until recently one Venser) main (with some number of Negate too), so my Tokens matchup has been decent. Keeping them off of Bitterblossoms and Sorin is key (I would even put my Ratchet Bombs on 2 tokens rather than use it as a token wipe most of the time). I have a countered a number of half Lingering Souls too to buy time until you can start recursing Wisps.
I'm also currently carrying Ghostly Prison in my sideboard and it really helps in this kind of matchup. I've been impressed with the card overall.
The flickerwisp package sounds pretty nice against tokens. I'm considering grabbing the extra few things I don't have so that I can swap into that for a night if I want to. Ghostly prison sounds like a great card to have in the board for a couple different matchups, and I already own one too. Not sure what to take out for it, but maybe stony silences won't be as necessary if the decks stay similar to what they've been. Or just stonecloaker
I'm looking for a little help with my local meta. There's a small group of Modern regulars; my first week, there were six of us in total: me, Junk, Tron, a Dungrove Elder ramp brew, and a RW land destruction brew. When I had asked about what was being played, I was told to expect lots of Affinity and Burn, but apparently that was during the height of Modern season; a number of the PPTQ grinders have stopped showing up for Saturday-afternoon Modern.
The land destruction brew was my only victory, and the pilot clearly wanted to demonstrate a concept way more than he wanted to win. My counter suite matched up amazingly well against his mixture of instants, sorceries, and 2 CMC cards.
Tron sucked a lot. The first game really was variance; there's not much you can do against a natural Tron and T3 Karn. The second game just went long, and I feel like I didn't have the right cards in hand to be successful. Dispel, Wall, Verdict, Spell Snare, and Mortarpod feel entirely dead, and that's a lot of m
The Dungrove Elder match was awful. His secret tech is Mwonvuli Acid-Moss, which is a huge tempo swing on the play. He also plays Asceticism to make his dorks difficult to remove (sorry Mortarpod!), but the cheap regeneration ability makes Verdict awkward, especially when he's at least two turns up on mana. Path feels completely dead, since I'd rather try to deal with a mana dork than a land, and Elder is hexproof. Should I mull aggressively for counters? Do I counter all ramp or save it for the moss?
How can I shape my deck to be more successful against these known quantities while still being mindful of the faster decks that may return?
Something like this? I run Meddling Mage (might swap to Nevermore) in the SB that I board in too. I _think_ the hits for Spell Snare (Scrying, Spellskite and possibly Pyroclasm if kept in) is worth more than the cycling of Wall, but I guess it depends of the build of the Tron deck/the sideboarding of the Tron player. Regardless, this should give you a much, much more solid game 2 & 3.
How you might ask? Because enchantments only target when they go on the stack, so here's how to do it: Gifts pile to get pacifism into the graveyard, once pacifism is in the graveyard drop Sunny. Sunny puts pacifism into play, but since it never goes on the stack, it never targets and can therefore be placed on any creature. The only thing now is to last until turn 6. As long as board wipes and detention spheres keep them off of trample and a pre-turn-4 win (those turn 3 or 4 wins do happen with bogles, and as a bogles player there's seldom anything the opponent can do about them. Luckily enough, they are pretty rare).
Another way to get pacifism into the graveyard without Gifts Ungiven would be to drop a lone missionary or a wall, cast pacifism then path the guy. It takes 3 cards, but since the MU is viewed as unfavorable it might be worth attempting. Also, this way has the possibility of ramping us to a turn 5 Sunny. Just a thought. The problem is I'm not sure what else Pacifism would help with in the board that would make it worth the slot, but it might be slightly better than celestial purge as a sideboard card because it has a broader application (good against any creature deck as an effective 2-drop removal spell).
EDIT: One last way to get Pacifism on that pesky (slippery?) bogle. Cast it on your Lone Missionary or Wall of Omens, then Flicker your Wall or Missionary. When the enchant re-enters you can place it on any Bogle you wish.
FFN: That seems absolutely way too cute. If you desperately want a card aimed at Bogles mainly then just go with Celestial Flare as has been suggested before. Flare has some decent applications against Grixis decks too as they usually just attack with 1 Delver/Tasigur/Gurmag at a time while trying to not over commit into board wipes.
Hai Guys and Gals. I Tried to summarize SB plan against opponent deck Hopefully this will help a lot of pilot
who used Phil Silberman Deck
Lets call it SB Guide 31 (it refer to Page) and feel free to comment it so I can add or change the SB guide
SB Guide 31 Azo Titan Mono Value
Affinity
- 1 Dispel
- 2 Mana Leak
- 2 Negate
- 2 Ojutai's Command
+ 1 Supreme Verdict
+ 1 Wrath of God
+ 2 Spreading Seas
+ 2 Stony Silence
+ 1 Disenchant
GR Tron
-2 Mortarpod
-1 Dispel
-4 Wall of Omens
+2 Stony Silence
+2 Spreading Seas
+2 Negate
+1 Surgical Extraction
UR Twin
-4 Wall of Omens
-1 Sun Titan
-2 Ojutai's Command
+1 Disenchant
+1 Celestial Purge
+2 Negate
+1 Surgical Extraction
+2 Meddling Mage
Jund
- 2 Mana Leak
- 2 Ojutai's Command
- 1 Gifts Ungiven
- 1 Dispel
+1 Supreme Verdict
+1 Wrath of God
+1 Stonecloacker
+2 Spreading Seas
+1 Celestial Purge
BW Token
-2 Ojutai's Command
-1 Gifts Ungiven
-1 Sun Titan
-4 Wall of Omens
+1 Supreme Verdict
+1 Wrath of God
+1 Celestial Purge
+1 Disenchant
+1 Stonecloacker
+1 Surgical Extraction
+2 Spreading Seas
Burn
-2 Mortar Pod
-2 Pilgrim's Eye
-1 Sun Titan
-1 Aether Spellbomb
+1 Lone Missionary
+1 Celestial Purge
+1 Negate
+1 Dispel
+1 Supreme Verdict
+1 Wrath of God
Elves
-2 Pilgrims Eye
-2 Mana Leak
+1 Supreme Verdict
+1 Wrath of God
+1 Dispel
+1 Negate
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Modern
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Boros/Naya/Mardu Burn Abzan Rhino non Noble Hierach not active Jund Tarmoless not active
DnT White
Living End Jund Restore Balance Non Borderpost/ Borderpost not active U/W Titan Control not active Mardu Nahiri/Control not active
I haven't played all of those MU:s but a few thoughts:
UR Twin:
You want the Dispel. They will have them.
Jund:
Not sure I would side out Mana Leak on the play.
Why Gifts out? It's an attrition battle.
Would 100% side in Negates.
BW Tokens:
Again Negates.
No Surgical, I mean, why?
Besides that I think it's a great list and a great initiative. I don't play his exact list (and most people don't I think, heh) but looking at his list and looking at this I feel like it makes sense & it helps you get an idea of how we want to sideboard and people can act accordingly with their own decklists!
I play a lot of aggro and other creature-based strategies. Recently, I decided to branch into control and expand my horizons a little bit. Titan Control seems to fit the bill for me. I own the playset of Paths and and a few Aether Spellbombs, although I don't know how relevant the latter is. The issue I'm having is that I can't figure out how to get a list together. My meta consists of Burn, Affinity, and a few Twin and Control variants. I will not lie: I don't have an infinite budget. I would like to keep unecessary expensive parts (i.e. Shocks and Fetches) out of the list at first so I can buy them later when my money isn't as tight. I don't want to sound lazy, but does anybody have a list I can go off of that fits my meta? Yes, while there are several lists on this thread, I have no way of knowing what the owners' metas are like. I just need a baseboard to jump off of, and I should be fine from there.
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P.S. Not saying you specifically argue that way, just that a lot of people do!
I have been testing with 3 Flickerwisp, 1 Dispel, 2 Negates & 2 Mana Leaks exactly lately and will run it on paper tonight. My thoughts: It's not that hard, just know ("feel", but know your opponents decklists) when you can tapout for a Wisp if you're holding a CS. A Wisp on a blank board isn't that important so hold it. It's OK to wait to have Dispel or even Negate up if you're playing vs a deck with must counters.
Exatraz: That is about the biggest bummer I've heard in a while, you have my sympathy and thanks for all your contribution so far (and in the future, one can always theorize even when not playing). I hope things work out.
Game 1 - U/R Storm 1-0
I won the first game due to some Lone Missionary pressure and him fizzling. The 2nd I won with some pressure and a Gideon to stop empty the warrens.
My questions here are general questions for playing against this deck. I found myself holding up counters for things like past in flames or pyromancer's ascension, but this meant I was often letting the initial ritual get cast. Does this seem generally correct or is it something that really has to be evaluated case by case? Also, what are ideal meddling mage targets?
Game 2 W/B Tokens 1-1
I lost the first game, and the only major misplay I saw here was trying to wait a turn on my wrath effect to get more value. The second game was awful; I had to mulligan a 0- and a 1-land hand before getting stuck with junk and being toughtquisition'd into a Lili ultimate.
I will definitely be siding in celestial purges for paths from now on, but how else do you approach this matchup? Do you bring in Surgical Extraction? Meddling Mages? Wall of Omens out? It feels like I have more dead cards than live ones against this deck even when it comes to counters like Ojutai's Command or Dispel.
Game 3 Jund 2-1
Does this usually fall in our favor? It seemed like I was in control for most of these two games. First game took forever, but I finally got to do crazy Emeria shenanigans at the end. The second game was a bit quicker, and I just sat back and rode my answers to victory.
This one doesn't bring up as many questions. Jund seems like a straightforward deck, and the sideboarding seems pretty easy as far as putting stuff in.
Again, the deck was a ton of fun. I'm definitely looking forward to playing some more modern with this (and maybe others) in the future!
Edit: Also, R.I.P. Exatraz' Decks Good luck with the insurance
I don't mind holding CS up for Ascension but I would gladly fire off a CS on the first or second ritual, but it really is a go by feel and case by case basis. I would MM for Grapeshot, especially since I doubt they'll bring in bolts against us? I used to play UR storm but this was years ago...
Haven't played vs BW Tokens but Verdict, Negate, Dispel (not sure about their list so unsure about this?), Disenchant and probably Purge all seem really good in the MU.
Jund is a grindfest and probably one of our closer MUs but from my feel we have a slight edge. Like you said it's straightforward and just hinges on not making any misplays. It reminds me of the Twin matchup in that regard.
Sadly modern didn't fire at my LGS tonight and I had to play a *****ty draft. On a funnier note I was asked if I had a Gifts for trade by a guy who apparently just started playing it too, we're spreading!
On the bright side at least thus particular deck is pretty cheap.
On the down side, some people really do suck a**.
Also, if you're comfortable with it, PM me your address and what decks you lost. I'll dig through my collection and see what I can help you replace.
Modern: Bogles // 8-Whack/Goblins // UW Titan // Hollow One // Affinity // Dredge
EDH: Nissa, Vastwood Seer // Atraxa, Praetor's Voice // Meren of Clan Nel Toth
I'm also currently carrying Ghostly Prison in my sideboard and it really helps in this kind of matchup. I've been impressed with the card overall.
3x Lone Missionary
4x Wall of Omens
3x Court Hussar
2x Pilgrim's Eye
3x Sun Titan
Artifact (4):
2x Aether Spellbomb
2x Mortar Pod
Instant (13)
4x Path to Exile
2x Negate
2x Mana Leak
2x Spell Snare
1x Dispel
2x Ojutai's Command
2x Detention Sphere
Sorcery (2):
2x Supreme Verdict
Land (24):
3x Emeria, the Sky Ruin
4x Flooded Strand
2x Hallowed Fountain
2x Prairie Stream
4x Ghost Quarter
7x Plains
2x Islands
1x Lone Missionary
2x Stony Silence
2x Spell Snare
1x Dispel
2x Negate
2x Supreme Verdict
1x Disenchant
2x Spreading Seas
1x Surgical Extraction
1x Celestial Flare
I'm looking for a little help with my local meta. There's a small group of Modern regulars; my first week, there were six of us in total: me, Junk, Tron, a Dungrove Elder ramp brew, and a RW land destruction brew. When I had asked about what was being played, I was told to expect lots of Affinity and Burn, but apparently that was during the height of Modern season; a number of the PPTQ grinders have stopped showing up for Saturday-afternoon Modern.
The land destruction brew was my only victory, and the pilot clearly wanted to demonstrate a concept way more than he wanted to win. My counter suite matched up amazingly well against his mixture of instants, sorceries, and 2 CMC cards.
Tron sucked a lot. The first game really was variance; there's not much you can do against a natural Tron and T3 Karn. The second game just went long, and I feel like I didn't have the right cards in hand to be successful. Dispel, Wall, Verdict, Spell Snare, and Mortarpod feel entirely dead, and that's a lot of m
The Dungrove Elder match was awful. His secret tech is Mwonvuli Acid-Moss, which is a huge tempo swing on the play. He also plays Asceticism to make his dorks difficult to remove (sorry Mortarpod!), but the cheap regeneration ability makes Verdict awkward, especially when he's at least two turns up on mana. Path feels completely dead, since I'd rather try to deal with a mana dork than a land, and Elder is hexproof. Should I mull aggressively for counters? Do I counter all ramp or save it for the moss?
How can I shape my deck to be more successful against these known quantities while still being mindful of the faster decks that may return?
+2 Stony Silence
+2 Spreading Seas
+2 Negate
+1 Surgical Extraction
-2 Mortarpod
-1 Dispel
-4 Wall of Omens
Something like this? I run Meddling Mage (might swap to Nevermore) in the SB that I board in too. I _think_ the hits for Spell Snare (Scrying, Spellskite and possibly Pyroclasm if kept in) is worth more than the cycling of Wall, but I guess it depends of the build of the Tron deck/the sideboarding of the Tron player. Regardless, this should give you a much, much more solid game 2 & 3.
Pacifism
How you might ask? Because enchantments only target when they go on the stack, so here's how to do it: Gifts pile to get pacifism into the graveyard, once pacifism is in the graveyard drop Sunny. Sunny puts pacifism into play, but since it never goes on the stack, it never targets and can therefore be placed on any creature. The only thing now is to last until turn 6. As long as board wipes and detention spheres keep them off of trample and a pre-turn-4 win (those turn 3 or 4 wins do happen with bogles, and as a bogles player there's seldom anything the opponent can do about them. Luckily enough, they are pretty rare).
Another way to get pacifism into the graveyard without Gifts Ungiven would be to drop a lone missionary or a wall, cast pacifism then path the guy. It takes 3 cards, but since the MU is viewed as unfavorable it might be worth attempting. Also, this way has the possibility of ramping us to a turn 5 Sunny. Just a thought. The problem is I'm not sure what else Pacifism would help with in the board that would make it worth the slot, but it might be slightly better than celestial purge as a sideboard card because it has a broader application (good against any creature deck as an effective 2-drop removal spell).
EDIT: One last way to get Pacifism on that pesky (slippery?) bogle. Cast it on your Lone Missionary or Wall of Omens, then Flicker your Wall or Missionary. When the enchant re-enters you can place it on any Bogle you wish.
Modern: Bogles // 8-Whack/Goblins // UW Titan // Hollow One // Affinity // Dredge
EDH: Nissa, Vastwood Seer // Atraxa, Praetor's Voice // Meren of Clan Nel Toth
This is very funny.
Modern: Bogles // 8-Whack/Goblins // UW Titan // Hollow One // Affinity // Dredge
EDH: Nissa, Vastwood Seer // Atraxa, Praetor's Voice // Meren of Clan Nel Toth
who used Phil Silberman Deck
Lets call it SB Guide 31 (it refer to Page) and feel free to comment it so I can add or change the SB guide
SB Guide 31 Azo Titan Mono Value
Affinity
- 1 Dispel
- 2 Mana Leak
- 2 Negate
- 2 Ojutai's Command
+ 1 Supreme Verdict
+ 1 Wrath of God
+ 2 Spreading Seas
+ 2 Stony Silence
+ 1 Disenchant
GR Tron
-2 Mortarpod
-1 Dispel
-4 Wall of Omens
+2 Stony Silence
+2 Spreading Seas
+2 Negate
+1 Surgical Extraction
UR Twin
-4 Wall of Omens
-1 Sun Titan
-2 Ojutai's Command
+1 Disenchant
+1 Celestial Purge
+2 Negate
+1 Surgical Extraction
+2 Meddling Mage
Jund
- 2 Mana Leak
- 2 Ojutai's Command
- 1 Gifts Ungiven
- 1 Dispel
+1 Supreme Verdict
+1 Wrath of God
+1 Stonecloacker
+2 Spreading Seas
+1 Celestial Purge
BW Token
-2 Ojutai's Command
-1 Gifts Ungiven
-1 Sun Titan
-4 Wall of Omens
+1 Supreme Verdict
+1 Wrath of God
+1 Celestial Purge
+1 Disenchant
+1 Stonecloacker
+1 Surgical Extraction
+2 Spreading Seas
Burn
-2 Mortar Pod
-2 Pilgrim's Eye
-1 Sun Titan
-1 Aether Spellbomb
+1 Lone Missionary
+1 Celestial Purge
+1 Negate
+1 Dispel
+1 Supreme Verdict
+1 Wrath of God
Elves
-2 Pilgrims Eye
-2 Mana Leak
+1 Supreme Verdict
+1 Wrath of God
+1 Dispel
+1 Negate
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Boros/Naya/Mardu Burn
Abzan Rhino non Noble Hierachnot activeJund Tarmolessnot activeDnT White
Living End Jund
Restore Balance Non Borderpost/ Borderpostnot activeU/W Titan Controlnot activeMardu Nahiri/Controlnot activeUR Twin:
You want the Dispel. They will have them.
Jund:
Not sure I would side out Mana Leak on the play.
Why Gifts out? It's an attrition battle.
Would 100% side in Negates.
BW Tokens:
Again Negates.
No Surgical, I mean, why?
Besides that I think it's a great list and a great initiative. I don't play his exact list (and most people don't I think, heh) but looking at his list and looking at this I feel like it makes sense & it helps you get an idea of how we want to sideboard and people can act accordingly with their own decklists!