I'd have to see your creature lineup in action to comment, but what struck me is that you're running only 7 Plains with up to 8 fetches (counting the Flagstones). Is this too ambitious for a deck that will often play long games?
Hi,
I'm new here, (i didn't read the whole things) but anyone consider putting a 1-of Sphinx's Revelation in this deck ?
I think that it can really help at some point.
One card I thought of that is sweet in this kind of deck is running 4 Squadron Hawks and a Mistveil Plains... just not sure if it's better than casting a Sun Titan and getting a few copies of it and something else
Hi,
I'm new here, (i didn't read the whole things) but anyone consider putting a 1-of Sphinx's Revelation in this deck ?
I think that it can really help at some point.
One is probably the max I would play. I'd rather just jam a Planeswalker or Threat though tbh. You have to be able to pressure combo decks and stabilize and that seems like more of a Control / Midrange hate card. Those matchups have to be our straight easiest because we are looking to go big, while they go home ... but really. We are jamming Sun Titans and Emeria, the Sky Ruin. You shouldn't need a card like that to reload your hand. Focus on board presence and making incremental advantages.
So I played against merfolk and got crushed. Wall of omens in particular seems like a pretty bad card in the match-up. They can just islandwalk right past it and if not it doesn't actually kill anyone or present any pressure. The match feels very much like "have a supreme verdict or lose".
You play T1 Strand and then fetch at end-of-turn (you had no 1 mana play to make).
Do you fetch a tapped Hallowed Fountain because your Prairie Streams have a decent chance of coming in untapped for free later in the game, or do you fetch a Prairie Stream to keep the flexibility of the shock lands (example: you want to maximize your chances of playing a T4 Supreme Verdict)?
The optimal play is putting the Prairie Stream into play tapped if you have no turn one play, not the Strand.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Until you have lived as a statue, do not talk to me of pigeons."
—Karn, silver golem
It seems to me you're running UW control with a package of 2 Emeria 2 Wayfarers, kind of.
Exatraz: Oh, yeah, it makes sense that you were running more Negates but how many Leaks? It still sounds like you always had "it" (counters) and they never had "it" (T3 tron with PW follow-up) kinda! To be fair though, I almost only have G1 MU-data since I haven't played in any tourneys yet and thus mostly jam game 1's to see how my MD setup is vs different meta-decks. Postboard I have: 2 Spreading Seas, 2 Stony Silence, 1 Negate for the MU so yeah, there's that... I've been thinking about cutting the 4th Missionary or the 4th Verdict in the SB for a 2nd Negate and these results sure makes me want to do that even more.
Edit: WOW, missed a lot of posts between reading and posting. My first sentence was aimed at blackhawks first post.
So I played against merfolk and got crushed. Wall of omens in particular seems like a pretty bad card in the match-up. They can just islandwalk right past it and if not it doesn't actually kill anyone or present any pressure. The match feels very much like "have a supreme verdict or lose".
Yup that is Merfolk in a nutshell. Verdict or Detention Sphere and hope they don't have multiple lords with different names. It's not so bad if you run 4 total board clears. I also bring in Stony Silence to shut off Vial. Just don't keep hands without answers. Wall of Omens may not be a great blocker when they get Island walk but when they don't have a lord it works well enough and it digs you to your sweepers.
It seems to me you're running UW control with a package of 2 Emeria 2 Wayfarers, kind of.
Exatraz: Oh, yeah, it makes sense that you were running more Negates but how many Leaks? It still sounds like you always had "it" (counters) and they never had "it" (T3 tron with PW follow-up) kinda! To be fair though, I almost only have G1 MU-data since I haven't played in any tourneys yet and thus mostly jam game 1's to see how my MD setup is vs different meta-decks. Postboard I have: 2 Spreading Seas, 2 Stony Silence, 1 Negate for the MU so yeah, there's that... I've been thinking about cutting the 4th Missionary or the 4th Verdict in the SB for a 2nd Negate and these results sure makes me want to do that even more.
Edit: WOW, missed a lot of posts between reading and posting. My first sentence was aimed at blackhawks first post.
Edit2: And I agree with Deviltone!
I run 2 Negates 2 Mana Leaks 2 Ojutai and 1 Dispel as my counters Main Board. I run 1 Negate in the Sideboard for a total of 3. Spreading Seas work really good too against Tron because you are removing the mana source and drawing the card. I do take an aggressive mulligan approach for the matchup to ensure I get at least 1 of my answers.
You play T1 Strand and then fetch at end-of-turn (you had no 1 mana play to make).
Do you fetch a tapped Hallowed Fountain because your Prairie Streams have a decent chance of coming in untapped for free later in the game, or do you fetch a Prairie Stream to keep the flexibility of the shock lands (example: you want to maximize your chances of playing a T4 Supreme Verdict)?
The optimal play is putting the Prairie Stream into play tapped if you have no turn one play, not the Strand.
That wasn't the question though.
You have both Stream and Fountain in your deck, which will you fetch first.
If it's red you get a fountain if you want it tapped so that you draw a painless untapped source later on instead of more of a change of a hallowed fountain.... otherwise it doesn't matter.
I wouldn't say I'm a control deck lol. I'm just cutting all the cards I think are chaffe like aether spellbomb and mortarpod and counterspells that don't counter everything for more consistency and better board presence.
FDL42: Everything matters, though. It's hard to answer questions like these in a vacuum but yeah I agree with the "if it's red/aggro get the Fountain" but not that it doesn't matter otherwise. In some MUs hitting (untapped) landdrops consistently is of high importance which makes fetching a Prairie Stream more sense, since you know that you always have the option of untapped Fountain regardless of what your other draws are. Therefore Stream tapped would be my call in all non-aggro MUs.
Blackhawk: My point was you look like the decks labeled "UW control" that were played before (and still are, ofc) UW Titan became a thing. The classic Colonnade, Finks, Resto, Omens-pile. I'm not saying it's bad, I'm saying why are you even trying to be UW Titan by that point? You've cut the marquee cards (Titan, Emeria) in conjunction with adding earlier plays that can beat down which means you will probably have "the engine" is a gameplan in very, very few games. It would just make more sense for you to go -2 Emeria +2 Colonnade and maybe -1 Titan +1 Ojutai/Gideon/Revelations/etc by that point. Again, not saying it's bad, just saying you're straying into "that is another deck that people are already playing and developing"-territory.
Playing 2 Titans and 2 Emeria the sky ruin is just a good number. You don't want more than 1 because this is modern and games don't always last that long. If I was playing UW control I would only be playing Snapcaster Mages, Restoration Angels, and Celestial Collonades. Sure I trimmed back on the slow cards, but it's still using Titan and a titan deck. I'm not playing anymore removal than the rest of the lists and definitely less counters. How am I control again? I really just don't see it. meh.
Hi,
I'm new here, (i didn't read the whole things) but anyone consider putting a 1-of Sphinx's Revelation in this deck ?
I think that it can really help at some point.
I Think SR wants to be played in a real draw-go kind of deck.
UW Titan will often make 2,3 and 6 and even mana main phase plays... it doesn't leave a lot of openings for 6+ mana instants.
Sphinx's Revelation is the Titan of draw-go decks if you will. i.e. it's the card that puts them over the top.
Ojutai's Command is the poor man's revelation, but here it serves the purpose of transitioning us from the mid game to the late - a role that is performed by Cryptic Command (and Snapcaster Mage + counter) in decks that are heavier on U and instants.
UW Titan _is_ a control deck... At least both the original "tapout" iteration and the Silberman draw-go iterations. I'm not trying to say you're "a control deck" compared to us, because we all are control decks. I'm trying to say you're getting closer and closer to _the deck-archetype called UW control_ a.k.a. stuff like this http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=10388&d=259479&f=MO. But like I've said before (or perhaps it was on Reddit), there seems to be a third part of UW Titan players now, besides the draw-go and the tapout we have the few that prefer a more midrange approach with resto angels, finks, etc. This kind of list most likely sprung from people who did not realize that the UW Titan list is a slow control deck with inevitability at heart, and not something else (just go back to the start of the thread and read some comments by the OP!). Or they just didn't want to play the deck like that. I'm not gonna claim it's worse or better (as is obvious you would think if that is your playstyle) but just that it's getting closer to something else.
The reason I don't see a need for Sphinx's Revelation is simple; we draw enough cards through our engine and its enablers. + what FDL said about us not being "pure" draw-go even in the draw-go version.
Your MD looks a lot like mine (except small things like I cut the pods for the Snares) so hey it's obviously perfect. Why do you feel a need to gear against Affinity and Burn? I actually feel like these are 2 rather good MUs. With that said you have 6 good cards against Tron in your SB so if you're scared of them, that's something. I think perhaps you might be undervaluing Negate a bit? At least as a SB card it's amazing I think. I will also keep hooraying for Meddling Mage in the SB against the linear combo decks.
Oh, and try cutting a Sun Titan down to 3, it feels like the perfect number to me.
Your MD looks a lot like mine (except small things like I cut the pods for the Snares) so hey it's obviously perfect. Why do you feel a need to gear against Affinity and Burn? I actually feel like these are 2 rather good MUs. With that said you have 6 good cards against Tron in your SB so if you're scared of them, that's something. I think perhaps you might be undervaluing Negate a bit? At least as a SB card it's amazing I think. I will also keep hooraying for Meddling Mage in the SB against the linear combo decks.
Oh, and try cutting a Sun Titan down to 3, it feels like the perfect number to me.
I spoke with a few locals to ask what decks were running around, and they said that it's mostly Burn and Affinity. There's some random jank/brew and a small handful of other more popular decks like Tron, too. I'll be able to go and actually play next weekend, so hopefully I'll get a better idea of what the local field looks like.
I'd have to see your creature lineup in action to comment, but what struck me is that you're running only 7 Plains with up to 8 fetches (counting the Flagstones). Is this too ambitious for a deck that will often play long games?
I'm new here, (i didn't read the whole things) but anyone consider putting a 1-of Sphinx's Revelation in this deck ?
I think that it can really help at some point.
2 Weathered Wayfarer
4 Phantasmal Image
4 Wall of Omens
4 Court Hussar
4 Kitchen Finks
2 Restoration Angel
2 Sun Titan
Spells:15
4 Path to Exile
4 Mana Leak
1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Detention Sphere
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Celestial Colonnade
2 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
3 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Flooded Strand
3 Ghost Quarter
4 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
4 Plains
1 Prairie Stream
4 Spellskite
3 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Gideon Jura
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
One card I thought of that is sweet in this kind of deck is running 4 Squadron Hawks and a Mistveil Plains... just not sure if it's better than casting a Sun Titan and getting a few copies of it and something else
One is probably the max I would play. I'd rather just jam a Planeswalker or Threat though tbh. You have to be able to pressure combo decks and stabilize and that seems like more of a Control / Midrange hate card. Those matchups have to be our straight easiest because we are looking to go big, while they go home ... but really. We are jamming Sun Titans and Emeria, the Sky Ruin. You shouldn't need a card like that to reload your hand. Focus on board presence and making incremental advantages.
Martyr Proc Thread
Esper Relicblade Thread
Standard:
Mardu Superfriends
Turbofog
The optimal play is putting the Prairie Stream into play tapped if you have no turn one play, not the Strand.
—Karn, silver golem
Exatraz: Oh, yeah, it makes sense that you were running more Negates but how many Leaks? It still sounds like you always had "it" (counters) and they never had "it" (T3 tron with PW follow-up) kinda! To be fair though, I almost only have G1 MU-data since I haven't played in any tourneys yet and thus mostly jam game 1's to see how my MD setup is vs different meta-decks. Postboard I have: 2 Spreading Seas, 2 Stony Silence, 1 Negate for the MU so yeah, there's that... I've been thinking about cutting the 4th Missionary or the 4th Verdict in the SB for a 2nd Negate and these results sure makes me want to do that even more.
Edit: WOW, missed a lot of posts between reading and posting. My first sentence was aimed at blackhawks first post.
Edit2: And I agree with Deviltone!
Green gives us Sylvan Ranger and Sakura Tribe Elder.
Also possible value with Eternal Witness.
Yup that is Merfolk in a nutshell. Verdict or Detention Sphere and hope they don't have multiple lords with different names. It's not so bad if you run 4 total board clears. I also bring in Stony Silence to shut off Vial. Just don't keep hands without answers. Wall of Omens may not be a great blocker when they get Island walk but when they don't have a lord it works well enough and it digs you to your sweepers.
I run 2 Negates 2 Mana Leaks 2 Ojutai and 1 Dispel as my counters Main Board. I run 1 Negate in the Sideboard for a total of 3. Spreading Seas work really good too against Tron because you are removing the mana source and drawing the card. I do take an aggressive mulligan approach for the matchup to ensure I get at least 1 of my answers.
That wasn't the question though.
You have both Stream and Fountain in your deck, which will you fetch first.
I wouldn't say I'm a control deck lol. I'm just cutting all the cards I think are chaffe like aether spellbomb and mortarpod and counterspells that don't counter everything for more consistency and better board presence.
Martyr Proc Thread
Esper Relicblade Thread
Standard:
Mardu Superfriends
Turbofog
Blackhawk: My point was you look like the decks labeled "UW control" that were played before (and still are, ofc) UW Titan became a thing. The classic Colonnade, Finks, Resto, Omens-pile. I'm not saying it's bad, I'm saying why are you even trying to be UW Titan by that point? You've cut the marquee cards (Titan, Emeria) in conjunction with adding earlier plays that can beat down which means you will probably have "the engine" is a gameplan in very, very few games. It would just make more sense for you to go -2 Emeria +2 Colonnade and maybe -1 Titan +1 Ojutai/Gideon/Revelations/etc by that point. Again, not saying it's bad, just saying you're straying into "that is another deck that people are already playing and developing"-territory.
Martyr Proc Thread
Esper Relicblade Thread
Standard:
Mardu Superfriends
Turbofog
I Think SR wants to be played in a real draw-go kind of deck.
UW Titan will often make 2,3 and 6 and even mana main phase plays... it doesn't leave a lot of openings for 6+ mana instants.
Sphinx's Revelation is the Titan of draw-go decks if you will. i.e. it's the card that puts them over the top.
Ojutai's Command is the poor man's revelation, but here it serves the purpose of transitioning us from the mid game to the late - a role that is performed by Cryptic Command (and Snapcaster Mage + counter) in decks that are heavier on U and instants.
Yeah, that makes sense. It was my conclusion 'in a vacuum'.
The reason I don't see a need for Sphinx's Revelation is simple; we draw enough cards through our engine and its enablers. + what FDL said about us not being "pure" draw-go even in the draw-go version.
3x Emeria, The Sky Ruin
4x Flooded Strand
4x Ghost Quarter
2x Hallowed Fountain
2x Island
7x Plains
2x Prairie Stream
Artifact (4)
2x Aether Spellbomb
2x Mortarpod
Sorcery (2)
2x Supreme Verdict
Enchantment (2)
2x Detention Sphere
1x Dispel
2x Mana Leak
1x Negate
2x Ojutai's Command
4x Path to Exile
2x Spell Snare
Creature (16)
3x Court Hussar
3x Lone Missionary
2x Pilgrim's Eye
4x Sun Titan
4x Wall of Omens
2x Celestial Flare
1x Disenchant
1x Dispel
1x Lone Missionary
2x Spell Snare
2x Spreading Seas
2x Stony Silence
2x Supreme Verdict
1x Surgical Extraction
1x Timely Reinforcements
I'm trying to respect Tron while gearing toward Affinity and Burn. Any thoughts, particularly on the sideboard?
Oh, and try cutting a Sun Titan down to 3, it feels like the perfect number to me.
I spoke with a few locals to ask what decks were running around, and they said that it's mostly Burn and Affinity. There's some random jank/brew and a small handful of other more popular decks like Tron, too. I'll be able to go and actually play next weekend, so hopefully I'll get a better idea of what the local field looks like.
What do you put in place of the 4th titan?
I play a singleton Gideon Jura but I just don't like the 4th Titan heh, there are several options!
MODERN
BRG Jund
WU Control
UBRG Dredge
BG Elves
G Tron
Affinity
Building:
WR Boros Burn
UB Tezzerator
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