Grixis Delver (2-0)
I always had as many answers as they had threats and they never got to 'go off' with Young Pyro.
Mono R Prowess (2-0)
In both games I foiled their Temur Battle Rage turn. They had no reach to finish me though my walls (even after taking 12 damage by T2 on the draw).
Amulet Bloom (1-2)
G1: Mulliganed to 6, countered his T2 Amulet and built a decent wall, never found my land destruction and he eventually overpowered me with double striking Titans...
G2: He Pacted for Titan on T2. I Ghost Quarter'd him so he couldn't pay. Turn 3 kill with Emeria Titan!!
G3: He played Titans on turns 3, 4 and 5 with Amulet online and I only had sorcery speed answers. I made a terrible mistake on the first Titan when I did not Path it in response to him bouncing Toleria West to tutor for the counter. I had to fall back on Verdicts as removal...
Merfolk (1-2)
G1: Stabilized, but 2x Mutavault with Island Walk killed me through my walls with him top decking.
G2: Resolved Gideon T5, had his guys attack into Hussars.
G3: Couldn't deal with an end-of-turn Master of Wave I knew was coming (and was the only card in his hand).
RUG Scapeshift (0-2)
G1: Tapped out to counter his first Scapeshift, he Snapcasted it next turn.
G2: Got blown out by Teferi and 3x Cryptic Command on a mulligan to 5.
Lessons:
I don't have a lot of competitive Modern experience, so I faced some of these decks for the first time. I still felt most matches were close enough despite the disappointing end result.
I maindecked Stonecloacker to see what I could do with him but I didn't see him much and always scryed him to the bottom when I could. I did make some funky plays in the Practice room, but I'm inclined to cut him entirely. I liked that he has Flash though. I'll try some Mindcensor I think. They will help against Tron/Scapeshift too. Edit: Meddling Mage maybe?
Condescend was fine. 2x Leaks + Condescend is probably too much for a deck that wants to go long though... Still, having them early is sweet and late game I whould out card-advantage my opponent so having a couple of most-likely dead cards isn't terrible.
I'm pretty sure I want the 3rd Verdict back in the main.
I end up cutting Mortar Pod and Spellbomb so often post board that I'm wondering if they really have a place in the deck... I have put them to good use and Spellbomb isn'T much of a risk with the cantrip though. Might go down to 1 Pod.
Stonecloaker is a good sideboard card but isn't what you want in the main but is a house as a sideboard card against decks like Abzan CoCo, Decks that use Snapcaster and K-Commmand. My typical use for it is flash it in, exile the card they target and then return it to hand (or Finks in the combo deck). I just repeat until they have no cards left in the yard that are any good. He has become a way to get he last chunk of damage as well in some games because he has 3 power or as protection against Path. The main thing he has going for him is that NOBODY expects him and doesn't play around instant speed "exile card from graveyard effects".
What do you think about this one? I played Fiend Hunter combo with some moderate success, but Emeria Shepherd opens new possibilities for Blasting Station.
Solemn Simulacrum + Emeria Shepherd + Blasting Station mean putting all your Plains (and one Island) to the battlefield and drawing an insane amount of cards if I didn't make a mistake with the stack.
Counters are to protects the combos and delay the game.
You guys are once again falling into the hole down to Magical Christmas Land. "Emeria Shepherd opens up ..." - Stop. Emeria Shepherd is a 1-off 7-drop. Even in a grindy lategame deck like this that is NOT a build around. It's not a reason to go and build a totally different deck.
I agree that we shouldn't rely on Emeria as part of the combo (and as such don't think Sad Robot is good enough for the deck). I would be inclined to include Fiend Hunter and Blasting Station (instead of Mortar Pod), to give us an infinate combo to go after. I still really like Mortar Pod as it lets you ping a creature the moment it comes down (where as you have to sacrifice another creature to use Blasting Station). It doesn't matter much late game but it does matter. Blasting station might help us dodge Path effects a little more frequently too.
If what we want is dodging, the best is Crystal Shard for this deck. I am pretty certain about that. But it only gives dodging so not really worth over the other cards.
I don't really think that list with Fiend Hunter and Solemn Simulacrum would work well, when I played it before I very rarely comboed with it. But testing wonky things like this is half of the fun of Magic for me. There is no reason not to play with it.
I'm not a big Shepherd fan either. Our late game is good enough as is.
Blasting Station vs Mortar Pod is an interesting debate though.
MP coming down on T2 to kill Delver/Hierarchs and Birds on the play is very good (or T2 to kill Young Pyro on the draw). It's also good late game when you can just ping something at sorcery speed or get a little of reach.
BS is a one time mana investment, which is nice,but it's in the most contested slot in the deck (3 drop) and it doesn't do that much if you're under pressure early... It gives us an infinite combo (and empowers Fiend Hunter and Rally the Ancestors) and instant speed interaction with any creature we control. Fiend Hunter doesn't play nice with board wipes though...
Aether Spellbomb and Spellcloacker can also do some Fiend Hunter/Rally the Ancestors shenanigans...
1.
I agree that 4 might be too many, I disagree that 2 is the right number, I am planning on playing 3. But hey, 2 or 3, who knows, etc.
2.
Flickerwisp: is tapout, CMC3, 1 toughness, etc. I just very much don't agree that it's a card to play with even though we love the flicker effect.
Court Hussar: is good _because_ he doesn't stick around when Titan'd back. Look at it this way, when you have a Sun Titan attacking every turn, do you want to: 1. a 1/3 once that... blocks? or 2. dig 3 every attack looking for removal/permission to protect your probably favorable board position?
Kitchen Finks: Is not fighting with Lone Missionary but rather with our other 3 drops - which means it's fighting with cards doing other things than what Kitchen Finks does, while we still have Lone Missionary at 2 doing the same thing. From what I've heard and seen (and looking at MD and even more so, SB) the burn matchup is fairly good already so clunking up our CMC3 or, even worse, removing cards that are doing other important things, to fit in Kitchen Finks just for the burn matchup seems like a bad idea. IF the deck changed it's CMC around for other reasons I would totally be on board.
Arashin Cleric: Interesting, didn't play during Fate Reforged, definitely perks to both this and Lone Missionary. Debatable for sure!
Restoration Angel: So... it doesn't suffer from the CMC 3-clog and forcing to tap out even more that Flickerwisp does. But it costs 4 and does nothing with our Sun Titans. Would you be less ST-dedicated as a deck they would make more sense, as of now, I don't really see the purpose. It's just not how the deck plays. I might be wrong here, I mean, it's hard to say "Resto isn't good here" with a straight face when talking UW in general.
3.
Ojutai's Command seems to be about it's versatility. Countering creatures isn't something we not care about just because we play wraths. They are not always there and some decks are very threat heavy and some have must answers while we might not sit on a sweeper/path. With that said, I feel this is a flexible slot and 2 seems like 1 too many.
4.
Looking at the lists playing Gifts it generally seems to be an expensive instant speed tutor for removal, counter spells, threats or a mix of said cards. It's not the same as in the crazy gifts decks with only 1-offs but hey, it's what you need when you need it. P.S. I am planning on running a singleton Unburial Rites in my list, this will make the gifts way more potent just for 1 extra slot.
5.
Not sure why you would ever play Flagstones in this list so I can't really understand what you're saying here? If you were to ask why people play 2 Islands instead of just 2 extra Plains I guess I could say that you might want blue quickly without taking the damage (burn), you might want permission up against Blood Moon decks (twin, affinity, etc), etc. I haven't tested the manabase so I'm not sure how important the second one is but am basically trusting people's judgment. But Flagstones is just a Plains that isn't a Plain and thus won't help you at all. I guess it turns Ghost Quarters into Plains without setting you back a land. But it's still worse than a Plains when you don't have a GC, so.
The card I myself still haven't really understood why nobody is talking about is SPELL SNARE. The only argument I've heard is they don't stop "the big threats", but usually so doesn't Mana Leak in a deck running Path and GC. And I don't even think they are supposed to be substituted for the Leaks, I want to play the Leaks. I want to solve the decks early game by 1. fixing it's curve a bit & 2. handling early threats such as Goyfs, Confidants etc. I even remember people saying they had troubles with Jund which this card is amazing vs. I would seriously consider cutting my last 2 Pilgrim's Eye for 2 Spell Snare. This would put me at a list like:
But yeah, this kinda lowers the creature count to low for Mortarpod which makes me want to cut them for 2 more Spell Snares and then... etc etc and maybe there was a point to the base of the deck after all.
EDIT: Perhaps it's the Ojutai's that should go for the Snares!
I agree with this, Emeria Shepard can't come down till turn 7 and usually wont activate anything till turn 8. Titan comes down a turn earlier gives immediate value, its harder to kill and can attack and block if needed. Every 5 mana planeswalker you add to possibly use with her, is another high-costing card you may get in your opening hand that can cost you games against aggro decks. And she can't grab land, which is incredibly useful in most games. The titan/emeria sky ruin late game is so powerful, when its functioning you can usually do way more than needed to win the late game, we don't need more icing on this cake.
I think you could go down to 3 titans, but I wouldn't want to. It sucks getting one or two of them early game, but the deck really feels weak if you can't draw into them late game, or you lose one to a path or counter magic.
Can someone re-talk me into why we must play these 2 Mortarpods? Are our creatures REALLY not dying by themselves enough seeing how we're playing 2-4 wraths and generously trade/chump with our early threats? I know this is a question that has been brought up before but after goldfishing against aggro/midrange (paper for UW, computer for burn/zoo/jund) I feel like they are just... dunno.
I'm still gonna keep running the Silberman list (with my 1 rites/1 godless shrine), I'm just thinking out loud not at all saying a card is bad or that some new addition is definitely better.
Joe: I agree with you 100% except I still think Gideon Jura is worth playing as a 1-off. He is figuratively a house.
1) kills other people's clocks
2) protects your creatures from exile effects so you can recur them with emeria
3) allows you to just recur your value dudes with emeria/sun titan
1) Does it really, though? Granted, the decks I've tested against do not ever die to a single shot from the Pod (although some, Goblin Guide & Monastery Swiftspear, have died from two). I guess it does kill tokens, Young Pyro & Snapcaster from decks I haven't tested against.
2) This only really matters vs Paths, and even then you're usually spending 1/2-2/3 of your mana just on making a dude not exile instead of doing anything that matters right there and then. I just never felt like I had the time for it, when I did, it was a sign I was losing.
3) Sure, but this point is nullified by my "we will chump/trade like maniacs anyway"-arguments. I guess it matters vs decks that will ignore our creatures on board where only our sweepers puts them in the yard.
You seem to feel the same way I do about the Mortarpod, Shepherd and 4th Sun Titan. Glad to see I'm not alone. I'm fibbling around with a list that's basically the same as mine(/ours?) but running 4x Spell Snare instead of the 2 Mortarpod and 2 Ojutais Command. It just feels like the Snares do what we want these 2 cards to do but more effectively and earlier. Sure, it's not a value play, but it's a 1 drop, it's amazing on the draw and it hits some annoying non-creatures (Bitterblossom can't be fun for this deck, as an example). The creature base would be 4 Wall of O, 3 Court Hussar, 3 Sun Titan, 3 Lone Missionary/Kitchen Finks, 2 Pilgrim's Eye.
I've certainly had games in which Mortar Pod shone, and it even granted me the last points of damage on a few occasions, but I'm leaning towards moving it to the side board (or even cutting it). It's basically dead in too many matchups, and it doesn't really help us in our worst matchups... It certainly has utility (like Pokken listed + it plays nice with Flicker), but I'm tempted to try something like Last Breath in its slot (it hits basically everything Pod can kill, plus Goblin Guide, some Goys, Merfolks, Mutavault, prevents K Command recursion, etc... in a pinch it can heal us to get out of burn/Valakut range).
---
I'm happy with 3 Titans. The way I see it, I have 6 "Titans" with the 3 Emerias.
The land gives such inevitability in the long game. More than the Titans IMO. The Titans are there to lock down the game earlier if possible, but they are easier to counter. I play Gideon Jura to get an another "early" wincon.
I'm not that worried when I see my Titans exiled or extracted by control decks. I know Emeria can pull through.
With the Unburial Rites being whatever you want if you don't like that SB-plan and the amount of Snares maybe being lower if you really like your Ojutais Commands.
Timing out in the mirror seems meant to be. Ask yourself what cards are problematic for you (and you certainly have more play-experience than me, so I'm curious too)?
Then compare the list to cards that Snare will help you against,
Probably very relevant to counter: Jace 1U, Goyf, Confidant, Terminate, Scooze, Snappy, Remand, Mana Leak, Negate, Blighted Agent, Summer Bloom, Vault Skirge, Arcbound Ravager, Steel Overseer, Cranial Plating, Red Eidolon, Atarka's Command, Boros Charm, Searing Blaze, Skullcrack, Destructive Revelry, Young Pyro, Bitterblossom, Intangible Virtue.
Probably not very relevant: Spellskite, Sylvan Scrying, Think Twice, Wall of Omens, Goryos Vengeance, Rest in Peace, Sakura-Tribe Elder, Peer Through Depths, Lightning Helix, Voice of Resurgence, Qasali Pridemage, Silvergill Adept, Harbinger of Tides, 2x Fishlords, 8? Elves.
That became quite the list, heh. I think it can be summarized by saying that if your troubles come from Grix Control, BGx, burn and/or affinity then the Snares will be amazing. But they still hit some cards here and there and can be boarded out. Looking at the list the early BGx-cards, all the affinity and the Remands all seem great to hit.
Built this after a month of contemplating and after one night of playing I'm already in love. Went 2-2 tonight at my LGS's Thursday night modern event.
My list is a slightly edited copy of Phil Silberman's that took down that Milwaukee IQ. I replaced Gifts Ungiven with a Snapcaster Mage, and went with a crappy sideboard. I had intended to use Emeria Shephard (replacing Sun Titan) and a Prairie Stream (replacing... something, not sure) but I was told they were't legal till tomorrow about 5 minutes before the event. Woops! I've been playing Esper midrange/mentor for the past few months and have been enjoying moderate success at my LGS. The crowd is pretty competitive and you'll usually play against t1/t2 decks throughout the 4 or 5 rounds. I decided to switch because this deck just looks too fun and I really think it has legs to take down a big event, bigger than an IQ.
G1 I found a bit of interaction then he dropped an Etched Champion and I died a few turns later.
G2 I boarded in all my hate and saw none of it, sadly. I dug about 20 cards deeps with multiple walls and hussars and never saw a verdict. Turns out they were clumped together in the bottom 25~ cards. Ah well! I think I could have won that game had I drawn a verdict, so that one just gets chalked up to variance.
Round 2 VS Ascendancy Combo 2 - 0
G1 I keep a 5 lands, d-sphere, titan hand and we go land-go for a few turns. He drops a t4 fatesticher which I D-sphere and we go draw-go again for a bit. I land a Titan and an Aether Spellbomb and he goes off, drawing like 20-30 cards before stalling. Next turn he tries to go off again and my Spellbomb bounces his fatesticher before the untap triggers resolve.
G2 My sideboard is FULL of incidental hate and I brought it alllll in. Meddling mages would have been great here though. He had no win condition outside of the ascendancy so it would have been an instant win.
Round 3 VS Pia and Kiran Grixis 0 - 2
A very grindy set of games. I felt... disadvantaged in this matchup. I was expecting it to go very well for me, and it did for some turns, but endless removal and my inability to get Emeria online before Pia+Kiran took over led to my loss. The card is very good, and I'm happy it's seeing play. It's hard to fully deal with them, especially with K-Command. The matchup felt harder than I thought it'd be but the games still very winnable in most cases.
Round 4 VS Grishoalbrand 2 - 1
Made some sweet plays this match, such as: Plenty of mana and a snapcaster on board with a Mortarpod and a Ojutai's Command in hand. The game seems pretty locked up but my opponent could still combo off and get right back in the game or even outright kill me. I play the pod, ping him, then equip it to Snapcaster and pass the turn. He goes to combo off. In respond, I sac snapcaster, bring him back with Ojutai's, then flashback mana leak. Probably not the most complicated line of play but it still felt good to see it and pull it off.
G2 He just outright killed me turn 2. Kept a slow 6-card hand and he took advantage of that.
G3 Weirdest game of modern I've ever played. We both durdled about 15 turns. I couldn't find a blue source and he couldn't find a way to combo. Eventually I found my blue sources and got a Sun Titan online to continously recur my flooded strands. By the end of the game I was ghost quartering him 3 times a turn whilst swinging 19 vigilance, with 3 pieces of countermagic+2 removal in hand.
Overall... I like the deck. I feel it has an absurd amount of untapped potential, especially with us getting new cards like Emeria Shepherd (and, to a lesser extent, Prairie Stream). I never felt too disadvantaged in a matchup. Digging for the cards I need was relatively easy and I always felt like I had an out, no matter how bad it looked, while holding a court hussar.
I plan on taking this deck to states in a few weeks, and possibly even GP Detroit after that although I'm still a bit split on what direction I want to take the deck. I feel like a suite of counter magic is a must-have. I also like the idea of running an unburial-iona/norn gifts package. Planeswalkers also seem viable now that we have the Shepherd, and I'd love to run something like a Venser, Jace AOT, or Ashiok in the main.
Also, what do you guys think of Flagstone of Trokair? Someone brought it up after I had to ghost quarter myself to fix my mana for a Snapcaster play. I'm considering throwing a 1-of in. Worst case scenario, it delays Emeria a turn. Best case scenario, we fix our mana a bit and thin our deck/get Emeria online a bit faster via ghost quarter. Anyways, love the discussion in this thread- will definitely be sharing tournament reports and ideas often.
Aaand, last stray thought: Flip jace. What do you guys think? Have any of you tried it with success? Probably not the most value addition to the deck but I think it could work decently. It's a must-answer threat (or atleast the opponent will assume so), helps us hit land drops, etc. Against Affinity, I died with 3 titans in hand at one point. I hit 6 mana but I was never really in the position to just tap out for a big dumb beater. Jace would have been dope there.
I think we are severely underestimating the power of gifts in this thread. I am working on a more gifts centered version that is pretty close to what has been going on but just tuned to play better with gifts. I am at work so cannot post the list but some little points:
I split supreme verdict with wrath of god 1/1 in the maindeck and added a snapcaster mage. You could also throw in a path to really make it interesting. I am also running 1 day of judgment in the SB to speed this up to be able to go turn 5 wrath with another wrath ready to go.
unburial rites plus emeria shepherd as maindeck reanimate that is tuned for midrange matches with a SB elesh norn, grand cenobite and iona, shield of emeria for aggro and combo matches. I am not convinced iona is the answer for combo but cannot think of a better target. Elesh norn can absolutely hose aggro though.
I'm running 3 spell snares and I wouldn't go less. I never board them out. They usually have a good target early game against aggro decks and they eat most counterspells except cryptic command.
Emeria Shepard could work in a gifts ungiven/unburial rites package. If you went this route though I don't think you really need to play Sun Titan, just play more gifts in its place or just keep one titan in.
I'm not going to answer everything because some things seem kinda solved-ish at least by now (i.e. value of Court Hussar) but:
I understand the value of the Finks and I am actually thinking about testing them but still think it will clog up CMC3 too much. The Angels I am not at all on board with and it might be our different view of the deck: you keep calling it "midrange", woot? This is as controlly it can get, it's all about inevitability.
I am actually not really cutting creatures for my Snares, I'm cutting 2 Mortarpod and 1-2 Ojutai's Command. The creature base is 100% the same. And Spell Snare is _not_ an anti-combo card at all, it's actually at it's best against the linear decks I listed above (if you can call BGx linear, but having a good card against BGx is, well... good). It will take a LOT to get me to not run Spell Snare in my lists.
Gifts, again: This is not a "cheaper Jace's Ingenuity". We don't draw 4 lands when we need threats or threats when we need removal. We tutor. Tutoring is strong. I will probably split and play a Wrath main too, good idea. I don't really see a need to go deep in the gifts-bowl though, it's good as it is. I really do like the idea of a singleton Snapcaster but for me that is out of the question for budget concerns sadly, would love it if people could report findings from playing controlly with 1 Snappy.
Oh and Picelli, I play 1 Godless Shrine main so I have 5 outs for black sources + in my SB there's Elesh V, Iona and a 2nd Gifts Ungiven for when the fatty plan seems legit. I just dont feel the need to maindeck it, having Rites giving me a "for sure Titan" every time I Gifts is good enough for MD for me.
EDIT: Didn't see your answer sneak in before mine there Pucelli! I get your point but you're fighting a straw man a bit. No one is really (OK, maybe someone, but not "all gifts-players") arguing for going heavy on a gifts package. I am running a 1-off gifts in a deck and haven't changed a card because of it besides my 1-off Rites. Without the rites the gifts is just a value "tutor 2 cards and get some in the yard" without requiring you to rebuild your deck much at all. The Gift isn't a "B-plan" to me, it's a simple value-card and a catch-all where you really need a specific type of card AND it's a few slots SB-plan to me. (All of the things I said about the 1-off Gifts goes for the 1-off Snappy - that I admittedly haven't tried - too. Playing a singleton Snappy doesn't require me to change the rest of the deck _at all_.)
Stonecloaker is a good sideboard card but isn't what you want in the main but is a house as a sideboard card against decks like Abzan CoCo, Decks that use Snapcaster and K-Commmand. My typical use for it is flash it in, exile the card they target and then return it to hand (or Finks in the combo deck). I just repeat until they have no cards left in the yard that are any good. He has become a way to get he last chunk of damage as well in some games because he has 3 power or as protection against Path. The main thing he has going for him is that NOBODY expects him and doesn't play around instant speed "exile card from graveyard effects".
I agree that we shouldn't rely on Emeria as part of the combo (and as such don't think Sad Robot is good enough for the deck). I would be inclined to include Fiend Hunter and Blasting Station (instead of Mortar Pod), to give us an infinate combo to go after. I still really like Mortar Pod as it lets you ping a creature the moment it comes down (where as you have to sacrifice another creature to use Blasting Station). It doesn't matter much late game but it does matter. Blasting station might help us dodge Path effects a little more frequently too.
I don't really think that list with Fiend Hunter and Solemn Simulacrum would work well, when I played it before I very rarely comboed with it. But testing wonky things like this is half of the fun of Magic for me. There is no reason not to play with it.
Blasting Station vs Mortar Pod is an interesting debate though.
MP coming down on T2 to kill Delver/Hierarchs and Birds on the play is very good (or T2 to kill Young Pyro on the draw). It's also good late game when you can just ping something at sorcery speed or get a little of reach.
BS is a one time mana investment, which is nice,but it's in the most contested slot in the deck (3 drop) and it doesn't do that much if you're under pressure early... It gives us an infinite combo (and empowers Fiend Hunter and Rally the Ancestors) and instant speed interaction with any creature we control. Fiend Hunter doesn't play nice with board wipes though...
Aether Spellbomb and Spellcloacker can also do some Fiend Hunter/Rally the Ancestors shenanigans...
Food for thought.
I agree that 4 might be too many, I disagree that 2 is the right number, I am planning on playing 3. But hey, 2 or 3, who knows, etc.
2.
Flickerwisp: is tapout, CMC3, 1 toughness, etc. I just very much don't agree that it's a card to play with even though we love the flicker effect.
Court Hussar: is good _because_ he doesn't stick around when Titan'd back. Look at it this way, when you have a Sun Titan attacking every turn, do you want to: 1. a 1/3 once that... blocks? or 2. dig 3 every attack looking for removal/permission to protect your probably favorable board position?
Kitchen Finks: Is not fighting with Lone Missionary but rather with our other 3 drops - which means it's fighting with cards doing other things than what Kitchen Finks does, while we still have Lone Missionary at 2 doing the same thing. From what I've heard and seen (and looking at MD and even more so, SB) the burn matchup is fairly good already so clunking up our CMC3 or, even worse, removing cards that are doing other important things, to fit in Kitchen Finks just for the burn matchup seems like a bad idea. IF the deck changed it's CMC around for other reasons I would totally be on board.
Arashin Cleric: Interesting, didn't play during Fate Reforged, definitely perks to both this and Lone Missionary. Debatable for sure!
Restoration Angel: So... it doesn't suffer from the CMC 3-clog and forcing to tap out even more that Flickerwisp does. But it costs 4 and does nothing with our Sun Titans. Would you be less ST-dedicated as a deck they would make more sense, as of now, I don't really see the purpose. It's just not how the deck plays. I might be wrong here, I mean, it's hard to say "Resto isn't good here" with a straight face when talking UW in general.
3.
Ojutai's Command seems to be about it's versatility. Countering creatures isn't something we not care about just because we play wraths. They are not always there and some decks are very threat heavy and some have must answers while we might not sit on a sweeper/path. With that said, I feel this is a flexible slot and 2 seems like 1 too many.
4.
Looking at the lists playing Gifts it generally seems to be an expensive instant speed tutor for removal, counter spells, threats or a mix of said cards. It's not the same as in the crazy gifts decks with only 1-offs but hey, it's what you need when you need it. P.S. I am planning on running a singleton Unburial Rites in my list, this will make the gifts way more potent just for 1 extra slot.
5.
Not sure why you would ever play Flagstones in this list so I can't really understand what you're saying here? If you were to ask why people play 2 Islands instead of just 2 extra Plains I guess I could say that you might want blue quickly without taking the damage (burn), you might want permission up against Blood Moon decks (twin, affinity, etc), etc. I haven't tested the manabase so I'm not sure how important the second one is but am basically trusting people's judgment. But Flagstones is just a Plains that isn't a Plain and thus won't help you at all. I guess it turns Ghost Quarters into Plains without setting you back a land. But it's still worse than a Plains when you don't have a GC, so.
The card I myself still haven't really understood why nobody is talking about is SPELL SNARE. The only argument I've heard is they don't stop "the big threats", but usually so doesn't Mana Leak in a deck running Path and GC. And I don't even think they are supposed to be substituted for the Leaks, I want to play the Leaks. I want to solve the decks early game by 1. fixing it's curve a bit & 2. handling early threats such as Goyfs, Confidants etc. I even remember people saying they had troubles with Jund which this card is amazing vs. I would seriously consider cutting my last 2 Pilgrim's Eye for 2 Spell Snare. This would put me at a list like:
4 Wall of Omens
3 Court Hussar
2 Lone Missionary
3 Sun Titan
1 Emeria Shepherd
1 Gideon Jura
2 Mortarpod
4 Path to Exile
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Aether Spellbomb
2 Detention Sphere
2 Spell Snare
2 Mana Leak
2 Ojutai's Command
1 Dispel
1 Negate
1 Unburial Rites
1 Gifts Ungiven
4 Flooded Strand
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Prairie Stream
1 Godless Shrine
2 Island
6 Plains
But yeah, this kinda lowers the creature count to low for Mortarpod which makes me want to cut them for 2 more Spell Snares and then... etc etc and maybe there was a point to the base of the deck after all.
EDIT: Perhaps it's the Ojutai's that should go for the Snares!
I think you could go down to 3 titans, but I wouldn't want to. It sucks getting one or two of them early game, but the deck really feels weak if you can't draw into them late game, or you lose one to a path or counter magic.
I'm still gonna keep running the Silberman list (with my 1 rites/1 godless shrine), I'm just thinking out loud not at all saying a card is bad or that some new addition is definitely better.
Joe: I agree with you 100% except I still think Gideon Jura is worth playing as a 1-off. He is figuratively a house.
1) kills other people's clocks
2) protects your creatures from exile effects so you can recur them with emeria
3) allows you to just recur your value dudes with emeria/sun titan
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
2) This only really matters vs Paths, and even then you're usually spending 1/2-2/3 of your mana just on making a dude not exile instead of doing anything that matters right there and then. I just never felt like I had the time for it, when I did, it was a sign I was losing.
3) Sure, but this point is nullified by my "we will chump/trade like maniacs anyway"-arguments. I guess it matters vs decks that will ignore our creatures on board where only our sweepers puts them in the yard.
You seem to feel the same way I do about the Mortarpod, Shepherd and 4th Sun Titan. Glad to see I'm not alone. I'm fibbling around with a list that's basically the same as mine(/ours?) but running 4x Spell Snare instead of the 2 Mortarpod and 2 Ojutais Command. It just feels like the Snares do what we want these 2 cards to do but more effectively and earlier. Sure, it's not a value play, but it's a 1 drop, it's amazing on the draw and it hits some annoying non-creatures (Bitterblossom can't be fun for this deck, as an example). The creature base would be 4 Wall of O, 3 Court Hussar, 3 Sun Titan, 3 Lone Missionary/Kitchen Finks, 2 Pilgrim's Eye.
---
I'm happy with 3 Titans. The way I see it, I have 6 "Titans" with the 3 Emerias.
The land gives such inevitability in the long game. More than the Titans IMO. The Titans are there to lock down the game earlier if possible, but they are easier to counter. I play Gideon Jura to get an another "early" wincon.
I'm not that worried when I see my Titans exiled or extracted by control decks. I know Emeria can pull through.
Near report there is a button labelled tools. Click it and select delete.
Only downside I could see is that it makes it harder to go T1 Emeria on the play so you might have to carry a tap land for a while.
4 Wall of Omens
3 Court Hussar
3 Lone Missionary / Kitchen Finks
3 Sun Titan
2 Pilgrims Eye
1 Gideon Jura
4 Path to Exile
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Aether Spellbomb
2 Detention Sphere
4 Spell Snare
2 Mana Leak
1 Dispel
1 Negate
1 Unburial Rites
1 Gifts Ungiven
+ lands.
With the Unburial Rites being whatever you want if you don't like that SB-plan and the amount of Snares maybe being lower if you really like your Ojutais Commands.
---
Played sone 2-mens tonight and it was more of the same: beat Grixis and Burn, lost to Amulet and Bogles. Also, timed out in the mirror.
Then compare the list to cards that Snare will help you against,
Probably very relevant to counter: Jace 1U, Goyf, Confidant, Terminate, Scooze, Snappy, Remand, Mana Leak, Negate, Blighted Agent, Summer Bloom, Vault Skirge, Arcbound Ravager, Steel Overseer, Cranial Plating, Red Eidolon, Atarka's Command, Boros Charm, Searing Blaze, Skullcrack, Destructive Revelry, Young Pyro, Bitterblossom, Intangible Virtue.
Probably not very relevant: Spellskite, Sylvan Scrying, Think Twice, Wall of Omens, Goryos Vengeance, Rest in Peace, Sakura-Tribe Elder, Peer Through Depths, Lightning Helix, Voice of Resurgence, Qasali Pridemage, Silvergill Adept, Harbinger of Tides, 2x Fishlords, 8? Elves.
That became quite the list, heh. I think it can be summarized by saying that if your troubles come from Grix Control, BGx, burn and/or affinity then the Snares will be amazing. But they still hit some cards here and there and can be boarded out. Looking at the list the early BGx-cards, all the affinity and the Remands all seem great to hit.
My list is a slightly edited copy of Phil Silberman's that took down that Milwaukee IQ. I replaced Gifts Ungiven with a Snapcaster Mage, and went with a crappy sideboard. I had intended to use Emeria Shephard (replacing Sun Titan) and a Prairie Stream (replacing... something, not sure) but I was told they were't legal till tomorrow about 5 minutes before the event. Woops! I've been playing Esper midrange/mentor for the past few months and have been enjoying moderate success at my LGS. The crowd is pretty competitive and you'll usually play against t1/t2 decks throughout the 4 or 5 rounds. I decided to switch because this deck just looks too fun and I really think it has legs to take down a big event, bigger than an IQ.
2 Pilgrim's Eye
3 Court Hussar
3 Lone Missionary
4 Sun Titan
4 Wall of Omens
1 Snapcaster Mage
Lands
2 Island
8 Plains
3 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
4 Flooded Strand
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Hallowed Fountain
2 Aether Spellbomb
2 Mortarpod
2 Detention Sphere
Instants/Sorceries
1 Dispel
2 Mana Leak
2 Negate
2 Ojutai's Command
4 Path to Exile
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Lone Missionary
1 Stonecloaker
1 Spreading Seas
2 Stony Silence
2 Celestial Purge
1 Disenchant
1 Dispel
1 Negate
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Wrath of God
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Flash Freeze
Round 1 VS Affinity 0 - 2
G1 I found a bit of interaction then he dropped an Etched Champion and I died a few turns later.
G2 I boarded in all my hate and saw none of it, sadly. I dug about 20 cards deeps with multiple walls and hussars and never saw a verdict. Turns out they were clumped together in the bottom 25~ cards. Ah well! I think I could have won that game had I drawn a verdict, so that one just gets chalked up to variance.
Round 2 VS Ascendancy Combo 2 - 0
G1 I keep a 5 lands, d-sphere, titan hand and we go land-go for a few turns. He drops a t4 fatesticher which I D-sphere and we go draw-go again for a bit. I land a Titan and an Aether Spellbomb and he goes off, drawing like 20-30 cards before stalling. Next turn he tries to go off again and my Spellbomb bounces his fatesticher before the untap triggers resolve.
G2 My sideboard is FULL of incidental hate and I brought it alllll in. Meddling mages would have been great here though. He had no win condition outside of the ascendancy so it would have been an instant win.
Round 3 VS Pia and Kiran Grixis 0 - 2
A very grindy set of games. I felt... disadvantaged in this matchup. I was expecting it to go very well for me, and it did for some turns, but endless removal and my inability to get Emeria online before Pia+Kiran took over led to my loss. The card is very good, and I'm happy it's seeing play. It's hard to fully deal with them, especially with K-Command. The matchup felt harder than I thought it'd be but the games still very winnable in most cases.
Round 4 VS Grishoalbrand 2 - 1
Made some sweet plays this match, such as: Plenty of mana and a snapcaster on board with a Mortarpod and a Ojutai's Command in hand. The game seems pretty locked up but my opponent could still combo off and get right back in the game or even outright kill me. I play the pod, ping him, then equip it to Snapcaster and pass the turn. He goes to combo off. In respond, I sac snapcaster, bring him back with Ojutai's, then flashback mana leak. Probably not the most complicated line of play but it still felt good to see it and pull it off.
G2 He just outright killed me turn 2. Kept a slow 6-card hand and he took advantage of that.
G3 Weirdest game of modern I've ever played. We both durdled about 15 turns. I couldn't find a blue source and he couldn't find a way to combo. Eventually I found my blue sources and got a Sun Titan online to continously recur my flooded strands. By the end of the game I was ghost quartering him 3 times a turn whilst swinging 19 vigilance, with 3 pieces of countermagic+2 removal in hand.
Overall... I like the deck. I feel it has an absurd amount of untapped potential, especially with us getting new cards like Emeria Shepherd (and, to a lesser extent, Prairie Stream). I never felt too disadvantaged in a matchup. Digging for the cards I need was relatively easy and I always felt like I had an out, no matter how bad it looked, while holding a court hussar.
I plan on taking this deck to states in a few weeks, and possibly even GP Detroit after that although I'm still a bit split on what direction I want to take the deck. I feel like a suite of counter magic is a must-have. I also like the idea of running an unburial-iona/norn gifts package. Planeswalkers also seem viable now that we have the Shepherd, and I'd love to run something like a Venser, Jace AOT, or Ashiok in the main.
Also, what do you guys think of Flagstone of Trokair? Someone brought it up after I had to ghost quarter myself to fix my mana for a Snapcaster play. I'm considering throwing a 1-of in. Worst case scenario, it delays Emeria a turn. Best case scenario, we fix our mana a bit and thin our deck/get Emeria online a bit faster via ghost quarter. Anyways, love the discussion in this thread- will definitely be sharing tournament reports and ideas often.
Aaand, last stray thought: Flip jace. What do you guys think? Have any of you tried it with success? Probably not the most value addition to the deck but I think it could work decently. It's a must-answer threat (or atleast the opponent will assume so), helps us hit land drops, etc. Against Affinity, I died with 3 titans in hand at one point. I hit 6 mana but I was never really in the position to just tap out for a big dumb beater. Jace would have been dope there.
I split supreme verdict with wrath of god 1/1 in the maindeck and added a snapcaster mage. You could also throw in a path to really make it interesting. I am also running 1 day of judgment in the SB to speed this up to be able to go turn 5 wrath with another wrath ready to go.
unburial rites plus emeria shepherd as maindeck reanimate that is tuned for midrange matches with a SB elesh norn, grand cenobite and iona, shield of emeria for aggro and combo matches. I am not convinced iona is the answer for combo but cannot think of a better target. Elesh norn can absolutely hose aggro though.
Emeria Shepard could work in a gifts ungiven/unburial rites package. If you went this route though I don't think you really need to play Sun Titan, just play more gifts in its place or just keep one titan in.
I understand the value of the Finks and I am actually thinking about testing them but still think it will clog up CMC3 too much. The Angels I am not at all on board with and it might be our different view of the deck: you keep calling it "midrange", woot? This is as controlly it can get, it's all about inevitability.
I am actually not really cutting creatures for my Snares, I'm cutting 2 Mortarpod and 1-2 Ojutai's Command. The creature base is 100% the same. And Spell Snare is _not_ an anti-combo card at all, it's actually at it's best against the linear decks I listed above (if you can call BGx linear, but having a good card against BGx is, well... good). It will take a LOT to get me to not run Spell Snare in my lists.
Gifts, again: This is not a "cheaper Jace's Ingenuity". We don't draw 4 lands when we need threats or threats when we need removal. We tutor. Tutoring is strong. I will probably split and play a Wrath main too, good idea. I don't really see a need to go deep in the gifts-bowl though, it's good as it is. I really do like the idea of a singleton Snapcaster but for me that is out of the question for budget concerns sadly, would love it if people could report findings from playing controlly with 1 Snappy.
Oh and Picelli, I play 1 Godless Shrine main so I have 5 outs for black sources + in my SB there's Elesh V, Iona and a 2nd Gifts Ungiven for when the fatty plan seems legit. I just dont feel the need to maindeck it, having Rites giving me a "for sure Titan" every time I Gifts is good enough for MD for me.
EDIT: Didn't see your answer sneak in before mine there Pucelli! I get your point but you're fighting a straw man a bit. No one is really (OK, maybe someone, but not "all gifts-players") arguing for going heavy on a gifts package. I am running a 1-off gifts in a deck and haven't changed a card because of it besides my 1-off Rites. Without the rites the gifts is just a value "tutor 2 cards and get some in the yard" without requiring you to rebuild your deck much at all. The Gift isn't a "B-plan" to me, it's a simple value-card and a catch-all where you really need a specific type of card AND it's a few slots SB-plan to me. (All of the things I said about the 1-off Gifts goes for the 1-off Snappy - that I admittedly haven't tried - too. Playing a singleton Snappy doesn't require me to change the rest of the deck _at all_.)