In my opinion the one thing this deck is missing is a business card, a 3 drop that ends the game straight up off of Sun Titan. I know the deck works by grinding your opponent out of cards then getting back your threats, but a card that just puts the nail in the coffin and ends the game would be nice.
Modern: G Stompy G UR Izzet Prowess/Delver UR UWB Spirits UWB UWB Brain Control UWB WUB Esper Reveillark WUB EDH: WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG W Nine-and-a-Half TailsW WGUR Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis WGUR
Black is okay. A while back, Gifts Ungiven with Unburial Rites was discussed. There is no reason such a strategy can't be made to work. I'd argue that the meta isn't really favorable for it. Black is best when the meta is full of combo that gets destroyed by an early Duress.
Was Endless Horizons looked in to? It seems like a good way of hitting all your land drops past turn 4, and it means you'll draw gas for the rest of the game.
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Modern: G Stompy G UR Izzet Prowess/Delver UR UWB Spirits UWB UWB Brain Control UWB WUB Esper Reveillark WUB EDH: WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG W Nine-and-a-Half TailsW WGUR Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis WGUR
Was Endless Horizons looked in to? It seems like a good way of hitting all your land drops past turn 4, and it means you'll draw gas for the rest of the game.
Until someone removes the enchantment and then you make 0 land drops the rest of the game.
What of Burnished Hart? In my playtesting the game reached a point where I was answering all the threats my opponents had, but I couldn't reach Emeria, wouldn't the Hart be good for reaching Emeria quicker if you aren't running green?
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Modern: G Stompy G UR Izzet Prowess/Delver UR UWB Spirits UWB UWB Brain Control UWB WUB Esper Reveillark WUB EDH: WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG W Nine-and-a-Half TailsW WGUR Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis WGUR
What of Burnished Hart? In my playtesting the game reached a point where I was answering all the threats my opponents had, but I couldn't reach Emeria, wouldn't the Hart be good for reaching Emeria quicker if you aren't running green?
It has an activation cost that requires 3 mana and sacrificing itself. That doesn't sound appealing.
I would still play Pilgrim's Eye, because it has a triggered ability that can be blinked repeatedly.
Sorry for throwing all of these far-fetched ideas out, I just wanted to contribute to healthy discussion. Here's the list I've come to, because I like the bant idea:
Modern: G Stompy G UR Izzet Prowess/Delver UR UWB Spirits UWB UWB Brain Control UWB WUB Esper Reveillark WUB EDH: WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG W Nine-and-a-Half TailsW WGUR Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis WGUR
Black is okay. A while back, Gifts Ungiven with Unburial Rites was discussed. There is no reason such a strategy can't be made to work. I'd argue that the meta isn't really favorable for it. Black is best when the meta is full of combo that gets destroyed by an early Duress.
List splashing black could also have Executioner's Capsule in the sideboard. The capsule can be recurred repeatedly with Sun Titan. I've seen it done by someone, somewhere in this thread, and the results were ok.
Sorry for throwing all of these far-fetched ideas out, I just wanted to contribute to healthy discussion. Here's the list I've come to, because I like the bant idea:
The deck also doesn't seem to have nearly enough green mana sources.
That is why I don't think the Emeria Titan deck can work as a tri-color becuase it needs to have about 12 plains and it doesn't leave enough room for 2 other colors ( unless you play more lands than 23).
As was discussed a while back, the biggest reasons to include Green are (1) Eternal Witness, (2) STE or Oracle type effects, and (3) anything else. The deck can support green as long as you include a heavy complement of dual-types and enough cards in category (2). The reason I avoided it was that the loss of consistency and increased vulnerability to mana-disruption just didn't feel like a good tradeoff.
I dislike the 3-cc land-fetchers. They just slow the deck down a lot relative to Oracle or STE. At that point, you're almost as well-off to just keep using Pilgrim's Eye.
It was brought up once that Oath of Nissa can actually replace Hussar in the Green build. This is potentially strong early, but probably not any better late.
Finks doesn't really replace Mortarpod; it replaces Missionary. You added other 2-cc creatures, so it doesn't hurt much.
Primeval Titan also often wins the game by activating Emeria on it's own.
I think I'll test the swap of: -3x Elvish Visionary, -3x Courser of Kruphix for +3x Voice of Resurgence, +3x Tireless Tracker.
It can help pressure slower decks (while offering some protection from counters) and Tracker can help draw a lot of cards while getting bigger (if he doesn't get bolted early).
I'm a huge fan of Primeval Titan (as the decks currently in my sig indicate). That said, I'm less sanguine about it here, as it requires GG. Maybe we can manage that with the improved fetching green offers, maybe not (it takes something like 16 G sources). OTOH, Sun Titan brings Emeria online pretty fast as well (recurring fetching permanents), and is all-around more flexible. Since you really don't have room for more than 3-5 such effects, I'd favor Sun Titan every time.
VoR might be good (though probably not amazing). Tireless Tracker appears like it would be quite strong, though the 3-mana slot is pretty crowded.
If it produced some clues (let's say 2 of a fetch) and maybe got in once or traded with a 3-drop it seems pretty good to me.
And the deck usually has enough mana to crack clues.
Sorry for throwing all of these far-fetched ideas out, I just wanted to contribute to healthy discussion. Here's the list I've come to, because I like the bant idea:
I think I'm going to trade out 1 Court Hussar, 1 Farhaven Elf, and 1 Sakura-Tribe Elder for 3 Coiling Oracle to test out. My problem with Coiling Oracle is the Mana cost. Landing it turn 2 is a heavy strain on a mana base with 9 basics. I like Gesit of the Archives over Thassa and Monastery Siege because it provides a reliable blocker, and I don't want to give up my turn 3 to scry every turn without stalling offense. Can't afford Finks.
Modern: G Stompy G UR Izzet Prowess/Delver UR UWB Spirits UWB UWB Brain Control UWB WUB Esper Reveillark WUB EDH: WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG W Nine-and-a-Half TailsW WGUR Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis WGUR
What of Burnished Hart? In my playtesting the game reached a point where I was answering all the threats my opponents had, but I couldn't reach Emeria, wouldn't the Hart be good for reaching Emeria quicker if you aren't running green?
It has an activation cost that requires 3 mana and sacrificing itself. That doesn't sound appealing.
I would still play Pilgrim's Eye, because it has a triggered ability that can be blinked repeatedly.
Amen. This was also discussed a few pages back.
Regarding the yellow emphasis: If you dealt with all of their threats, what was preventing you from getting Emeria online? The round timer?
Edit: Typo
What I mean is when both of us are relying on topdecks, and I need my emeria online because eventually they're going to run over my defences.
Sorry about the double post, still working on formatting posts, and it's especially hard on my phone...
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Modern: G Stompy G UR Izzet Prowess/Delver UR UWB Spirits UWB UWB Brain Control UWB WUB Esper Reveillark WUB EDH: WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG W Nine-and-a-Half TailsW WGUR Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis WGUR
I have to disagree on the Tireless Tracker. It may give you clues over time, but you have to invest tons of mana to grow it, and a single threat is removed easily. It also dies to your own wrath effects, it has has no synergy with flickerwisp and suntitan.
I think there are better creatures you can choose at his place if you want to get some pressure.
Blade Splicer vs. Tireless Tracker is actually an interesting comparison.
B.Splicer has more value with flicker effects and less suseptible to targeted removal (and blocks rather well) but can't draw cards and grow larger like T.Tracker.
The deck also already includes 4x Kitchen Finks that fills a similar role to Blade Splicer in being a good flicker target that can beat down or be a decent blocker that isn't easily removed.
And what are the thoughts on Thought Scour
G Stompy G
UR Izzet Prowess/Delver UR
UWB Spirits UWB
UWB Brain Control UWBWUB Esper Reveillark WUB
EDH:
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
W Nine-and-a-Half TailsW
WGUR Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis WGUR
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
G Stompy G
UR Izzet Prowess/Delver UR
UWB Spirits UWB
UWB Brain Control UWBWUB Esper Reveillark WUB
EDH:
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
W Nine-and-a-Half TailsW
WGUR Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis WGUR
Until someone removes the enchantment and then you make 0 land drops the rest of the game.
G Stompy G
UR Izzet Prowess/Delver UR
UWB Spirits UWB
UWB Brain Control UWBWUB Esper Reveillark WUB
EDH:
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
W Nine-and-a-Half TailsW
WGUR Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis WGUR
It has an activation cost that requires 3 mana and sacrificing itself. That doesn't sound appealing.
I would still play Pilgrim's Eye, because it has a triggered ability that can be blinked repeatedly.
3 Sun Titan
1 Primeval Titan
4 Flickerwisp
4 Wall of Omens
3 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Farhaven Elf
3 Court Hussar
3 Lone Missionary
2 Eternal Witness
2 Geist of the Archives
3 Detention Sphere
Instants:
4 Path to Exile
Sorceries:
2 Supreme Verdict
Artifacts:
2 Mortarpod
Lands:
4 Flooded Strand
2 Windswept Heath
3 Hallowed Fountain
1 Temple Garden
1 Canopy Vista
3 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
7 Plains
1 Forest
1 Island
G Stompy G
UR Izzet Prowess/Delver UR
UWB Spirits UWB
UWB Brain Control UWBWUB Esper Reveillark WUB
EDH:
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
W Nine-and-a-Half TailsW
WGUR Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis WGUR
List splashing black could also have Executioner's Capsule in the sideboard. The capsule can be recurred repeatedly with Sun Titan. I've seen it done by someone, somewhere in this thread, and the results were ok.
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I agree about adding Coiling Oracle, probably instead of Geist of the Archives (Thassa, God of the Sea is better) which is very bad imho
(maybe as a 2-drop it would serviceable, but a 3-mana wall with scry 1 isn't good enough).
I also like Sylvan Ranger over Sakura-Tribe Elder because it can be Flickerwisp'ed, Wood Elves/Yavimaya Dryad is also better than Farhaven Elf.
Kitchen Finks would also be very good here, I like it over Mortarpod.
The deck also doesn't seem to have nearly enough green mana sources.
That is why I don't think the Emeria Titan deck can work as a tri-color becuase it needs to have about 12 plains and it doesn't leave enough room for 2 other colors ( unless you play more lands than 23).
And if the deck doesn't play counterspells anyway, blue can be dropped entirely for more green cards
(Scavenging Ooze/Voice of Resurgence/Oath of Nissa/Sylvan Advocate/Tireless Tracker/Nissa, Voice of Zendikar/Beast Within/Nest Invader).
About the land tutors/acceleration, 4 seems like a good number to not flood out on lands with no action.
Btw, I'm looking for some ideas for my G/W list:
I dislike the 3-cc land-fetchers. They just slow the deck down a lot relative to Oracle or STE. At that point, you're almost as well-off to just keep using Pilgrim's Eye.
It was brought up once that Oath of Nissa can actually replace Hussar in the Green build. This is potentially strong early, but probably not any better late.
Finks doesn't really replace Mortarpod; it replaces Missionary. You added other 2-cc creatures, so it doesn't hurt much.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
I think I'll test the swap of: -3x Elvish Visionary, -3x Courser of Kruphix for +3x Voice of Resurgence, +3x Tireless Tracker.
It can help pressure slower decks (while offering some protection from counters) and Tracker can help draw a lot of cards while getting bigger (if he doesn't get bolted early).
VoR might be good (though probably not amazing). Tireless Tracker appears like it would be quite strong, though the 3-mana slot is pretty crowded.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
And the deck usually has enough mana to crack clues.
What would you suggest instead ?
(Blade Splicer, Brimaz, King of Oreskos, Thalia, Heretic Cathar, Dauntless Escort)
Regarding Primeval Titan, getting GG on turn 6/7 hasn't been much of a problem so far.
I think I'm going to trade out 1 Court Hussar, 1 Farhaven Elf, and 1 Sakura-Tribe Elder for 3 Coiling Oracle to test out. My problem with Coiling Oracle is the Mana cost. Landing it turn 2 is a heavy strain on a mana base with 9 basics. I like Gesit of the Archives over Thassa and Monastery Siege because it provides a reliable blocker, and I don't want to give up my turn 3 to scry every turn without stalling offense. Can't afford Finks.
G Stompy G
UR Izzet Prowess/Delver UR
UWB Spirits UWB
UWB Brain Control UWBWUB Esper Reveillark WUB
EDH:
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
W Nine-and-a-Half TailsW
WGUR Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis WGUR
What I mean is when both of us are relying on topdecks, and I need my emeria online because eventually they're going to run over my defences.
Sorry about the double post, still working on formatting posts, and it's especially hard on my phone...
G Stompy G
UR Izzet Prowess/Delver UR
UWB Spirits UWB
UWB Brain Control UWBWUB Esper Reveillark WUB
EDH:
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
W Nine-and-a-Half TailsW
WGUR Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis WGUR
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Which creatures would you suggest instead ?
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
Blade Splicer vs. Tireless Tracker is actually an interesting comparison.
B.Splicer has more value with flicker effects and less suseptible to targeted removal (and blocks rather well) but can't draw cards and grow larger like T.Tracker.
The deck also already includes 4x Kitchen Finks that fills a similar role to Blade Splicer in being a good flicker target that can beat down or be a decent blocker that isn't easily removed.