@ML - Thanks Rob! I have learned a lot from your videos with regards to mulliganing the hand. It was effective that I kept a 5 hand card in practice and still won the game. I now know when to keep a one lander and any videos about mulligan would certainly help a lot of players.
@UtterPandemonium - Thanks! Leechridden Swamp did its fair share during practice. It always pops up during the mid game which is just right. I treat it as a 3rd Dakmor Salvage albeit without the repeatability purpose if it is in my opening hand. The usual scenario where you are racing your opponent on a top deck mode and you are down to your last lives didn't play out, but it made its unblockable Mutavault impression on a lesser degree. However, I wasn't able to use the lose life ability during the tournament, but I would still keep it in my main board. It was never a problem on my opening hand or when it pops up in the mid game. You nailed the synergy with Pack Rat (Liliana, Shrieking Affliction and Nyxathid too) and that is what I was aiming for on the 2nd game. I configured my mb with Esperino's point somewhere that the deck might/or need more removal and Pack Rat needs to be cut off. Hey, this is a deck under the radar and opponents wouldn't expect a Rack win con. Even if they are able to analyze how you win during the first game they are not prepared for it. Hence they board out their removal and in the Pack Rats go for the alternate win con in game 2.
Now that I have slept I have found my play more than acceptable. My standing tells us differently but I manage to beat 2 decks which are featured in the videos in this forum. The Delver match up could have been a win had not I made that misplay of not casting Liliana a turn earlier. The Hatebear decks are a key to my meta. I stood up against them and never got swept and even had a shot winning against one. I pointed out of not using this deck when the meta is full of W Hatebears but since you can configure the sideboard according to your meta then perhaps Damnation can be considered.
Hatebears is a rough match, I've played a WG and a W before, with both I went 1-2, I believe. You're lacking sweepers in your board for their bears, Damnation is an option or Drown in Sorrow, if you have damnations just use those, since they would hit other deck's higher than 2 toughness creatures. And yeah it's a local meta thing, I've only seen those decks in PPTQs or Grand Prix Trials.
I see. You know that is a sign of aging man. Hahaha!
The next major Modern tourney will be a PPTQ on April 11th. I saw: Twin, Abzan and BW Tokens, UW Control, another W Hatebear and one GW deck which I can't classify if it was a Hatebear deck with the Tribal burn cards.
I want Innocent Blood sooooo bad! But it would probably make Blue mages give up entirely. Black is already the strongest and most complete control color. With innocent blood Black control gets the nastiest 1cc removal spell ever made.
I see. You know that is a sign of aging man. Hahaha!
The next major Modern tourney will be a PPTQ on April 11th. I saw: Twin, Abzan and BW Tokens, UW Control, another W Hatebear and one GW deck which I can't classify if it was a Hatebear deck with the Tribal burn cards.
Are those hatebear decks little kid? Or something else entirely?
I'm sorry, can some mod very kindly ask the gentlemen who just want to chat about their local tourneys and whether or now they know their Modern decks to do so in a more private fashion? None of the last 9 posts have had anything to do with the subject of this thread, with the most remotely close thing being some people expressing their desire to have Innocent Blood be Modern legal. I didn't come here to read about hatebears.
Please get this thread back on topic, which is 8 rack. Matchup and Tournament reports are fine, but the place to discuss what the top 8 consisted of is a different thread. Also please remember that discussing cards that are not modern legal is not permitted except in the designated threads.
Private Mod Note
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
Is the red splash the way most of you are going now? I haven't tried it yet but green and red have been suggested to me multiple times but going away from mono black just feels wrong.
Private Mod Note
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Decks: standard
N/A
Modern
Dredge vine
4 color gifts
Junk midrange
Daga control
Rb burn
Soul sisters
No I would personally not recommend red splash. It MAY have some immediate benefits such as improving your affinity match, but I think blue control decks are on the rise.
Actually, the blue splash is where it's at right now. You can use the incredible draw engines it provides to dig for the right cards at the right time. In addition, it allows you to selectively turn your Bridge on or off, so you can swing with your Pack Rats (or Delver of Secrets if you will)! You also get incredible sideboard cards like Hurkyl's Recall and maindeck recursion for Bridge and Rack with Academy Ruins. You also get to play with Snapcaster Mage, who is incredibly powerful at keeping their hands down with the hand nuke spells. A little bit of red goes a long way when Rise//Fall enters the deck and Trinket Mage lets you tutor up some Racks. Admittedly, a touch of white is also very nice since you get to cast Esper Charm and then have access to Path to Exile and even more amazing sideboard options. Instant speed discard 2 is no joke, it was a pseudo-win condition when it was in Standard.
Powerful additions like a value Gifts Ungiven can set you up with raw card advantage and depending on whether your are having problems with drawing lands or too many artifacts lategame, Compulsive Research and Thirst for Knowledge respectively are great engines. The access to Creeping Tar Pit is no joke either, it can steal a lot of games from seemingly unbeatable board states. Also, Piracy Charm is in blue, so you can now run both Piracy andFuneral Charm. #instantdiscardcrewrepresent!
Overall, I feel like Blue is the strongest colour to splash for right now. It might even be so worth it, that we might have to transition to a full two-colour UB deck, maaybe considering some Tezzerets in there as well. If the entire thread isn't ready to make the jump to this new and exciting way to play 8Rack, I might create another thread, only for people who can see and understand true innovation and embrace this path to competitive success!
To me, the splash doesn't go deep enough to be worth it as you are likely to end up with lands that hurt you. The deck tends to win with small enough margines that life loss due to fetches or shocks is significant. Or you do more than a splash and end up with a different deck entirely (Lightning Rack for red or Loam for green).
The monoblack version is the most efficient at the moment.
Realistically, the deck is pretty stagnant because we haven't really received any new tools since Pack Rat was accepted into the ranks, and even that is tenuous. Here's hoping they push the power level on Origins or Zendikar. But until then, are there any cards in the current pool that we either haven't tried or haven't tried in a while that might be decent in the current meta game?
Reason #1. Good sideboard options like AoG and Blood Moon to shore up harder match ups (Fast Aggro, Amulet bloom, and to a lesser extent, Tron)
Reason #2. Artifact destruction. Artifact destruction is always good, a bonus that it answers deck hate like Chalice of the Void.
Reason #3. Rix fills both a land and discard slot, freeing space for new cards. Ever wish you had an extra couple turns to find a bridge lock or activate a rack trigger? Well guess what? Board sweepers do that. And Rix gives us the freedom to consistently cast 4cmc board sweepers, because it allows us 24 lands without sacrificing discard.
ut until then, are there any cards in the current pool that we either haven't tried or haven't tried in a while that might be decent in the current meta game?
I can't really think of any. Muderous Cut and Nyxathid are "new" fringe choices I suppose. We rarely get new tools for 8Rack. Hell, the only cards that have been added to my initial primer deck list over 2 years ago are dakmor salvage and pack rat. The stock list is pretty much the only list. Sure you can tweak a couple cards here and there to taste, but I mean that literally. A couple cards. That's 1 or 2 cards.
The real use of this thread is to cover strategies on
A) How to actually play the stock list properly - ie one land keeps, common opening lines of play etc
B) How to best to attack a specific opponent such as Junk or Affinity
However, 99% of the posts end up being people trying to "fix" the stock list which is not broken.
People will always try to "fix" whatever you present to them, even if it's a PT-winning list (of course you wouldn't tell them that it won a PT). It's the nature of your medium being a public forum. Everybody thinks they know something that you don't and they will go out of their way to "prove" it.
Aside from that, the inheret problem of the thread is that while what you listed should be the subject, it's a fairly limited one. One can only say so many thing on how to handle certain decks before he starts repeating himself. And when to or not to keep one-laders (and other such strategies) come fairly naturally to anyone who has ammounted a certain experience with the deck. That's been pretty much covered several times already. And at the end of the day, even if it's done again, so what? The posts will get lost between the pages if even a single word is outside of destroyer's point of view, because apparently that's what gets in the primer, not what's actually best for the deck. Say I were to write 10 very extensive posts on each matchup with the top 10 Modern decks right now - game plan, strategy, sideboarding, keepable hands, plenty of statistics, etc. Why would I waste my time for hours of writing and even more in playtesting to go to waste, lost on page 87 from 120? I mean, the "owner" of the thread hasn't been around for weeks, not to mention when he would occasionally show up it was to just agree with whatever it was our favourite mod had recently said.
Let's face it, this thread is degrading more and more each day, seldom to be lightened up by somebody posting some sort of finish out of the blue. Until you (Rob) get it back under your control and make a proper and extensive primer with the best possible input, it will contnue to degrade, serving only as an introduction of new players to the deck. And judging by all the post of the type "hey just came here/been introduced to the deck/started playing the deck, here is my list, what do you think of it?" and the quality of the lists these people post, it doesn't even manage to do that properly. While it certainly provides as good of a stock list as it gets, the rest of the shell around it doesn't do a good job of telegraphing to people why that's the best, nor how modding it takes away from the fragile integrity of the deck, leading people to believe they can follow their inner Jonnies and then wonder what's wrong and why they are struggling... or even worse, most of those people grow to actually argue on card choices with people who have hundreds if not thousands (ok slight overexaggeration here) of games more than them with the deck. For instance, last week I made my 500th game with the deck, on paper. And yet I still haven't come up with anything strictly better than the list in the primer (except Pack Rat... it's complicated, our relationship).
I'm not saying it's wrong to have your own opinion and certainly nobody could be called stupid or inexperienced for defending their choices, but at best (like me) what people are trying to do is approach the deck from slightly different angles and have slightly different results in different areas. If nobody in the past two years has managed to come up with a strictly better version of 8Rack that probably suggest there is none and there can't be without new powerful toys. Having a different approach is fine, but don't try to fix something that isn't broken.
@UtterPandemonium - Thanks! Leechridden Swamp did its fair share during practice. It always pops up during the mid game which is just right. I treat it as a 3rd Dakmor Salvage albeit without the repeatability purpose if it is in my opening hand. The usual scenario where you are racing your opponent on a top deck mode and you are down to your last lives didn't play out, but it made its unblockable Mutavault impression on a lesser degree. However, I wasn't able to use the lose life ability during the tournament, but I would still keep it in my main board. It was never a problem on my opening hand or when it pops up in the mid game. You nailed the synergy with Pack Rat (Liliana, Shrieking Affliction and Nyxathid too) and that is what I was aiming for on the 2nd game. I configured my mb with Esperino's point somewhere that the deck might/or need more removal and Pack Rat needs to be cut off. Hey, this is a deck under the radar and opponents wouldn't expect a Rack win con. Even if they are able to analyze how you win during the first game they are not prepared for it. Hence they board out their removal and in the Pack Rats go for the alternate win con in game 2.
Now that I have slept I have found my play more than acceptable. My standing tells us differently but I manage to beat 2 decks which are featured in the videos in this forum. The Delver match up could have been a win had not I made that misplay of not casting Liliana a turn earlier. The Hatebear decks are a key to my meta. I stood up against them and never got swept and even had a shot winning against one. I pointed out of not using this deck when the meta is full of W Hatebears but since you can configure the sideboard according to your meta then perhaps Damnation can be considered.
Cube
Terricube
Modern
8Rack
Burn
Legacy
Oops, All Spells!
Pox
Sorry I missed it. When's the next one? And, were there any deck present you saw but didn't face? What were they?
The next major Modern tourney will be a PPTQ on April 11th. I saw: Twin, Abzan and BW Tokens, UW Control, another W Hatebear and one GW deck which I can't classify if it was a Hatebear deck with the Tribal burn cards.
I want Innocent Blood sooooo bad! But it would probably make Blue mages give up entirely. Black is already the strongest and most complete control color. With innocent blood Black control gets the nastiest 1cc removal spell ever made.
Are those hatebear decks little kid? Or something else entirely?
I didn't see any Little Kid on the tourney but Abzan was present.
Ah, ok. I've only ever seen it come up as Wilted Abzan for some reason.
N/A
Modern
Dredge vine
4 color gifts
Junk midrange
Daga control
Rb burn
Soul sisters
Legacy
The gate
Zombie bombardment
Burn
Powerful additions like a value Gifts Ungiven can set you up with raw card advantage and depending on whether your are having problems with drawing lands or too many artifacts lategame, Compulsive Research and Thirst for Knowledge respectively are great engines. The access to Creeping Tar Pit is no joke either, it can steal a lot of games from seemingly unbeatable board states. Also, Piracy Charm is in blue, so you can now run both Piracy and Funeral Charm. #instantdiscardcrewrepresent!
Overall, I feel like Blue is the strongest colour to splash for right now. It might even be so worth it, that we might have to transition to a full two-colour UB deck, maaybe considering some Tezzerets in there as well. If the entire thread isn't ready to make the jump to this new and exciting way to play 8Rack, I might create another thread, only for people who can see and understand true innovation and embrace this path to competitive success!
The monoblack version is the most efficient at the moment.
Realistically, the deck is pretty stagnant because we haven't really received any new tools since Pack Rat was accepted into the ranks, and even that is tenuous. Here's hoping they push the power level on Origins or Zendikar. But until then, are there any cards in the current pool that we either haven't tried or haven't tried in a while that might be decent in the current meta game?
Reason #1. Good sideboard options like AoG and Blood Moon to shore up harder match ups (Fast Aggro, Amulet bloom, and to a lesser extent, Tron)
Reason #2. Artifact destruction. Artifact destruction is always good, a bonus that it answers deck hate like Chalice of the Void.
Reason #3. Rix fills both a land and discard slot, freeing space for new cards. Ever wish you had an extra couple turns to find a bridge lock or activate a rack trigger? Well guess what? Board sweepers do that. And Rix gives us the freedom to consistently cast 4cmc board sweepers, because it allows us 24 lands without sacrificing discard.
Stay tuned for FNM results and recaps.
I can't really think of any. Muderous Cut and Nyxathid are "new" fringe choices I suppose. We rarely get new tools for 8Rack. Hell, the only cards that have been added to my initial primer deck list over 2 years ago are dakmor salvage and pack rat. The stock list is pretty much the only list. Sure you can tweak a couple cards here and there to taste, but I mean that literally. A couple cards. That's 1 or 2 cards.
The real use of this thread is to cover strategies on
A) How to actually play the stock list properly - ie one land keeps, common opening lines of play etc
B) How to best to attack a specific opponent such as Junk or Affinity
However, 99% of the posts end up being people trying to "fix" the stock list which is not broken.
Aside from that, the inheret problem of the thread is that while what you listed should be the subject, it's a fairly limited one. One can only say so many thing on how to handle certain decks before he starts repeating himself. And when to or not to keep one-laders (and other such strategies) come fairly naturally to anyone who has ammounted a certain experience with the deck. That's been pretty much covered several times already. And at the end of the day, even if it's done again, so what? The posts will get lost between the pages if even a single word is outside of destroyer's point of view, because apparently that's what gets in the primer, not what's actually best for the deck. Say I were to write 10 very extensive posts on each matchup with the top 10 Modern decks right now - game plan, strategy, sideboarding, keepable hands, plenty of statistics, etc. Why would I waste my time for hours of writing and even more in playtesting to go to waste, lost on page 87 from 120? I mean, the "owner" of the thread hasn't been around for weeks, not to mention when he would occasionally show up it was to just agree with whatever it was our favourite mod had recently said.
Let's face it, this thread is degrading more and more each day, seldom to be lightened up by somebody posting some sort of finish out of the blue. Until you (Rob) get it back under your control and make a proper and extensive primer with the best possible input, it will contnue to degrade, serving only as an introduction of new players to the deck. And judging by all the post of the type "hey just came here/been introduced to the deck/started playing the deck, here is my list, what do you think of it?" and the quality of the lists these people post, it doesn't even manage to do that properly. While it certainly provides as good of a stock list as it gets, the rest of the shell around it doesn't do a good job of telegraphing to people why that's the best, nor how modding it takes away from the fragile integrity of the deck, leading people to believe they can follow their inner Jonnies and then wonder what's wrong and why they are struggling... or even worse, most of those people grow to actually argue on card choices with people who have hundreds if not thousands (ok slight overexaggeration here) of games more than them with the deck. For instance, last week I made my 500th game with the deck, on paper. And yet I still haven't come up with anything strictly better than the list in the primer (except Pack Rat... it's complicated, our relationship).
I'm not saying it's wrong to have your own opinion and certainly nobody could be called stupid or inexperienced for defending their choices, but at best (like me) what people are trying to do is approach the deck from slightly different angles and have slightly different results in different areas. If nobody in the past two years has managed to come up with a strictly better version of 8Rack that probably suggest there is none and there can't be without new powerful toys. Having a different approach is fine, but don't try to fix something that isn't broken.