I know hour of reckoning is probably worse than wrath but I want to try it so badly.
Honestly, I ran it for two months. I only ever ran one and I just didn't draw it enough to dismiss it. I had some amazing blow outs, where I tapped out for eight to cast Secure the Wastes and convoked with those seven dudes to cast Hour. The worse thing is obviously it getting stuck in your hand, but there can be some awkwardness where you can't block with dudes because you need them next turn to convoke with. Hopefully in the matchups in which we want it, the rest of our removal will delay the game until you can cast it.
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Affinity is 75/25 matchup. We really mess with their plan with flying creatures and removal. Also we have access to stony silence post board.
Jund and Twin aren't bad matchups, it'll depend on how much disruption you have to stop the combo(twin) or remove their big creatures (but you can also chump block them forever).
Hello guys, I'm new to the deck and I was wondering how is the matchup against Twin/Tarmotwin, Affinity and Jund, the most predominant deck at my store
Thank you
I've lost to Affinity twice in six months of playing this deck. First time was to keeping a one lander and never seeing the second land, the other time was to an Etched Champion that I wasn't able to hit with discard and couldn't race due to Whipflare. The matchup is tremendously in our favor.
Having a solid matchup against Twin requires a lot of practice and about seven removal spells plus discard in your 75. Auriok Champion is hard for them to interact with and turns off them comboing through Deceiver Exarch.
Jund is a really good matchup for us insofar as their deck has difficulty with Lingering Souls. We run that, plus Spectral, Raise, and Bitterblossom. If you have an incredibly token heavy draw, there is no way that they can win game 1. Games two and three depend on whether they have Golgari Charm and Anger or if they are leaning on Maelstrom Pulse.
If that is your meta, I would look forward to playing this deck in it. It is not until you are stuck playing against unfair decks for two or three rounds that the deck starts having problems.
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I've had a good amount of experience playing the straight b/w version. My frustration with this deck so far is vulnerability due to reliance on discard, coupled with the slowness of sorcery speed token casters (outside of lingering souls) and enchantments. My general opinion is that the disruption you get with discard is mutually exclusive to getting your army out with any advantage. I've had some games where I completely disrupt the other player via discard early, but end up giving them another chance as a trade off by struggling to get tokens out with my low card hand, and the main phase play of sorcery spells / enchantments. With the list above I hope to get more interaction (instant spells), a little more board disruption, and a bigger 'answer me' card early with voice of resurgence. Here are my thoughts on individual changes:
4 Voice of Resurgence - immediately puts opponent on their heals, even better with control - forces an action early or late game. Only gets better with age as the game goes on, and benefits from intangible virtue. Considered maybe 2 with in side. Unfortunately a victim to spell snare like many big components of this deck, but huge ramp up potential if it lands, and a good general response to a meta where most decks play something during your hand.
2 Abrupt Decay / 2 Maelstrom Pulse - Better Removal than having only path for answers. Gives you options on artifacts, early creatures to stabilize, enchantments, and some tough options like planeswalkers / artifacts.
2 Secure the Wastes, 3 Midnight Haunting - Put these in for Spectral procession, which has often proven a burden in terms of its mana cost (3 plains) and speed in exchange for only 1 extra spirit token. I like these two options for their instant speed, and secure the waste giving you a pretty good early and late game option.
A version dropping spectral is also on my list of things to try because I both want more spells < 3cmc and more instants and the deck's gotten heavier black meaning I often need BB and WWW as opposed to B and WWW, which has also made me reconsider. Earlier in the thread there's been more discussion about the G splash.
OK, I apologies on the dodgy comment i gave on Tidehollow Sculler. I use to play it in my B/W tokens deck and it was good, Here are some pros and cons on it.
Pro
- 2 for 1
- provides an early beater
- target discard
- can get rid of an Ermakul permanently by targeting sculler with path to exile in response to etb trigger.
- If you are playing other creatures (hero of Bladehold and Auriok Champion), sculler acts almost like a spellskite because the opponent will want to get sculler becaseu they get to restabilise their two for one, giving you a turn to put pressure on the opponent with your other creatures, otherwise you get to go keep the 2v1 on the opponent.
Cons
- a creature in an otherwise creature deck.
- with both raise the alarm and bitterblossom seeing play these days the two spot is starting to get clogged up a little.
Shambling Vent could certainly - maybe should certainly - see play. Man-lands are good. They would need to replace Windbrisk Heights in most cases or perhaps Isolated Chapel. I would think two or three copies would not be out of line.
alright guys im changing up my sideboard some more to get ready for my first modern tourney tomorrow. I was looking back through the past threads and found some cards that I will be adding.
I love the idea of adding in this guy Batwing brume as well as blind obedience. Obviously these cards are for twin/twinning end which is one of the toughest matchups I've had in my testings, these can also be brought in against other combo decks like elves, merfolk strategies (vial in creatures to block during the attack... not today!), any random aggro/haste decks that might pop up, and the extort can be handy for the grindy matchups if you have leftover mana. I was thinking for tron it's handy if they are trying to play a creature to block a Karn or Ugin they've set up on the field, it's not going to work for another turn either so thats also 1 more point ( I realize that stony silence is the more appropriate card to bring in as well as oblivion ring but it's another option for me I suppose). If the enchantment doesn't get countered you have to think that most of the time it's going to stick around so it's nice to know, and if they want to counter this, that's less counters for my intangible virtue or liliana of the veil lol
so do people see this as a viable strategy to help against these decks? I want honesty because trying to evaluate cards and sideboards can always be an evolving tactic for all mtg players lol
alright guys im changing up my sideboard some more to get ready for my first modern tourney tomorrow. I was looking back through the past threads and found some cards that I will be adding.
I love the idea of adding in this guy Batwing brume as well as blind obedience. Obviously these cards are for twin/twinning end which is one of the toughest matchups I've had in my testings, these can also be brought in against other combo decks like elves, merfolk strategies (vial in creatures to block during the attack... not today!), any random aggro/haste decks that might pop up, and the extort can be handy for the grindy matchups if you have leftover mana. I was thinking for tron it's handy if they are trying to play a creature to block a Karn or Ugin they've set up on the field, it's not going to work for another turn either so thats also 1 more point ( I realize that stony silence is the more appropriate card to bring in as well as oblivion ring but it's another option for me I suppose). If the enchantment doesn't get countered you have to think that most of the time it's going to stick around so it's nice to know, and if they want to counter this, that's less counters for my intangible virtue or liliana of the veil lol
so do people see this as a viable strategy to help against these decks? I want honesty because trying to evaluate cards and sideboards can always be an evolving tactic for all mtg players lol
I love Batwing Brume. It's at its best vs. infect, but it can be fringe help in all kinds of random things. For example, fogging boggle when you're racing can be a pretty big deal. Blind Obedience I go back and forth on. You can get a lot of benefit from it, particularly when a game goes longer, but it doesn't really completely hose anything, it just gives them a hoop to jump through. The one deck that it really shuts off is Goryo's Vengeance type reanimator.
alright guys im changing up my sideboard some more to get ready for my first modern tourney tomorrow. I was looking back through the past threads and found some cards that I will be adding.
I love the idea of adding in this guy Batwing brume as well as blind obedience. Obviously these cards are for twin/twinning end which is one of the toughest matchups I've had in my testings, these can also be brought in against other combo decks like elves, merfolk strategies (vial in creatures to block during the attack... not today!), any random aggro/haste decks that might pop up, and the extort can be handy for the grindy matchups if you have leftover mana. I was thinking for tron it's handy if they are trying to play a creature to block a Karn or Ugin they've set up on the field, it's not going to work for another turn either so thats also 1 more point ( I realize that stony silence is the more appropriate card to bring in as well as oblivion ring but it's another option for me I suppose). If the enchantment doesn't get countered you have to think that most of the time it's going to stick around so it's nice to know, and if they want to counter this, that's less counters for my intangible virtue or liliana of the veil lol
so do people see this as a viable strategy to help against these decks? I want honesty because trying to evaluate cards and sideboards can always be an evolving tactic for all mtg players lol
I love Batwing Brume. It's at its best vs. infect, but it can be fringe help in all kinds of random things. For example, fogging boggle when you're racing can be a pretty big deal. Blind Obedience I go back and forth on. You can get a lot of benefit from it, particularly when a game goes longer, but it doesn't really completely hose anything, it just gives them a hoop to jump through. The one deck that it really shuts off is Goryo's Vengeance type reanimator.
thank you deathmist I really didn't even think about any reanimator decks OR boggle... but yes those are also great one that it hits as well. I wont know how my sideboard will do until I play the meta tomorrow, but im excited to get back into competitive mtg
Hey guys, I've been lurking in this thread for a while and decided to put together a list. I'm still new to this archetype so I don't know too much about, not to mention my card collection isn't ideal for this deck but its fairly close. Here is my list:
So I'm going out tonight to my testing group with friends and I plan to take it to FNM next week. Just some extra information about relevant cards I own:
1) Extra Paths
2) Playset of Leyline of Sanctity's.
3) A copy of Shambling vent from the prerelease
4) Lots of Sweepers and removal in general
Basically I'm just wondering if this deck is good enough so far. I know I only have one B/W fetchland as of right now, I'm going to try to find some more if I can find a good deal. Also I know some people here are playing Liliana but I just don't know, since I'm playing Auriok Champions and Hero's of Bladehold it just seems really hard on the mana to make that curve work. Anywho thanks in advance.
Hey guys, I've been lurking in this thread for a while and decided to put together a list. I'm still new to this archetype so I don't know too much about, not to mention my card collection isn't ideal for this deck but its fairly close. Here is my list:
So I'm going out tonight to my testing group with friends and I plan to take it to FNM next week. Just some extra information about relevant cards I own:
1) Extra Paths
2) Playset of Leyline of Sanctity's.
3) A copy of Shambling vent from the prerelease
4) Lots of Sweepers and removal in general
Basically I'm just wondering if this deck is good enough so far. I know I only have one B/W fetchland as of right now, I'm going to try to find some more if I can find a good deal. Also I know some people here are playing Liliana but I just don't know, since I'm playing Auriok Champions and Hero's of Bladehold it just seems really hard on the mana to make that curve work. Anywho thanks in advance.
Well, if you can't get the Marsh Flats yet, you could play Windswept Heath and Flooded Strand. It's kinda hard you wanting to fetch for a basic swamp.
I like your deck, but it's probably not BW tokens
Some notes:
- Spectral Procession is one of (if not our best card). It's not great with bob tho.
- Path to Exile is our best removal, use 4 of them.
- Intangible Virtue is another card you always want a playset.
- I don't think blood artist really fits in this deck that well. If we had at least a sac outlet maybe...
Thanks for the reply, the only problem I feel is that running Bitterblossom plus Spectral procession may be a little tough on the mana. Do problems like that pop up at all in your experience?
Thanks for the reply, the only problem I feel is that running Bitterblossom plus Spectral procession may be a little tough on the mana. Do problems like that pop up at all in your experience?
All your black producing lands ought to produce white as well. You can't cast Spectral with five swamps in your deck. You could probably just run Midnight Haunting in its stead unless you improve the mana. The deck is able to cast Auriok Champion and Liliana early and consistently mainly because of Fetid Heath.
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Hey guys im back from my Sunday night Modern night. Results... 2-2 (one of my wins being a freaking bi round... lol)
First round I played against Zoo burn. He got me game 1, just got overran with goblin guide, monastery swiftspear, eidolon and burn spells.
2nd round an early duress landed me a skullcrack and a timely sorin got me through at plenty of life for him to scoop.
3rd game he had me down to 5 on t3, i lost obviously lol
2nd round was U/R Twin, I was nervous. Game 1 I won! Bitterblossom and intangible virtue with Sorin landed me some pretty good pressure with 2 thoughtseize seen that game to help keep him off his combo pieces.
Game 2 he had to combo and curved out just right with the right counters at the right time to land a combo kill.
Game 3 was a long one. He kept a 1 land hand with some good stuff, i thoughtseize a spell snare so i can land a Blinding obediance, then I play brimaz, then sorin then intangible viture followed by elsepth and another sorin. I'm playing through counter spells, clique, bolts and draw, but the pressure I kept on him with not overext3ending into pyroclasm or anger of the gods sealed the deal for me.
Round 3, tron. I dont even wanna talk about it, t3 karn over. next game was grindy but I got flooded on lands, and he landed tron late but still ugin is deadly for us.
All in all I love this deck, and will be developing a lot of time to getting all the pieces that I need in order to solidify this deck.
I am adding in a lot more hate to my sideboard for tron since it is by far my worse match up. Wrath of gods are probably going out of the sideboard, and I need 4 timely in my 75 for burn.
How do people feel about ghost quarter + surgical extraction? I mean this could turn off tron for the entire game which would help eliminate the hardcore mana productions that come out of tron... with the discard could help our combo hate after sideboard.. but mostly for tron lol
Jund and Twin aren't bad matchups, it'll depend on how much disruption you have to stop the combo(twin) or remove their big creatures (but you can also chump block them forever).
Having a solid matchup against Twin requires a lot of practice and about seven removal spells plus discard in your 75. Auriok Champion is hard for them to interact with and turns off them comboing through Deceiver Exarch.
Jund is a really good matchup for us insofar as their deck has difficulty with Lingering Souls. We run that, plus Spectral, Raise, and Bitterblossom. If you have an incredibly token heavy draw, there is no way that they can win game 1. Games two and three depend on whether they have Golgari Charm and Anger or if they are leaning on Maelstrom Pulse.
If that is your meta, I would look forward to playing this deck in it. It is not until you are stuck playing against unfair decks for two or three rounds that the deck starts having problems.
Token Generators - 13
4 Lingering Souls
2 Secure the Wastes
3 Midnight Haunting
4 Bitterblossom
Disruption - 12
4 Path to Exile
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
Everything Else - 11
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Intangible Virtue
3 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Land - 24 - 14 mana generators, 8 fetch, 2 Vault of the Archangel
11 white mana, 6 black mana, 5 green mana available in the deck
4 Godless Shrine
3 Temple Garden
2 Isolated Chapel
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Overgrown Tomb
4 Windswept Heath
4 Marsh Flats
2 Vault of the Archangel
Sideboard
1 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Runed Halo
2 Disenchant
2 Stony Silence
2 Timely Reinforcements
3 Rest in Peace
3 Duress
I've had a good amount of experience playing the straight b/w version. My frustration with this deck so far is vulnerability due to reliance on discard, coupled with the slowness of sorcery speed token casters (outside of lingering souls) and enchantments. My general opinion is that the disruption you get with discard is mutually exclusive to getting your army out with any advantage. I've had some games where I completely disrupt the other player via discard early, but end up giving them another chance as a trade off by struggling to get tokens out with my low card hand, and the main phase play of sorcery spells / enchantments. With the list above I hope to get more interaction (instant spells), a little more board disruption, and a bigger 'answer me' card early with voice of resurgence. Here are my thoughts on individual changes:
4 Voice of Resurgence - immediately puts opponent on their heals, even better with control - forces an action early or late game. Only gets better with age as the game goes on, and benefits from intangible virtue. Considered maybe 2 with in side. Unfortunately a victim to spell snare like many big components of this deck, but huge ramp up potential if it lands, and a good general response to a meta where most decks play something during your hand.
2 Abrupt Decay / 2 Maelstrom Pulse - Better Removal than having only path for answers. Gives you options on artifacts, early creatures to stabilize, enchantments, and some tough options like planeswalkers / artifacts.
2 Secure the Wastes, 3 Midnight Haunting - Put these in for Spectral procession, which has often proven a burden in terms of its mana cost (3 plains) and speed in exchange for only 1 extra spirit token. I like these two options for their instant speed, and secure the waste giving you a pretty good early and late game option.
What are your thoughts? Also, first post!
Pro
- 2 for 1
- provides an early beater
- target discard
- can get rid of an Ermakul permanently by targeting sculler with path to exile in response to etb trigger.
- If you are playing other creatures (hero of Bladehold and Auriok Champion), sculler acts almost like a spellskite because the opponent will want to get sculler becaseu they get to restabilise their two for one, giving you a turn to put pressure on the opponent with your other creatures, otherwise you get to go keep the 2v1 on the opponent.
Cons
- a creature in an otherwise creature deck.
- with both raise the alarm and bitterblossom seeing play these days the two spot is starting to get clogged up a little.
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
I love the idea of adding in this guy Batwing brume as well as blind obedience. Obviously these cards are for twin/twinning end which is one of the toughest matchups I've had in my testings, these can also be brought in against other combo decks like elves, merfolk strategies (vial in creatures to block during the attack... not today!), any random aggro/haste decks that might pop up, and the extort can be handy for the grindy matchups if you have leftover mana. I was thinking for tron it's handy if they are trying to play a creature to block a Karn or Ugin they've set up on the field, it's not going to work for another turn either so thats also 1 more point ( I realize that stony silence is the more appropriate card to bring in as well as oblivion ring but it's another option for me I suppose). If the enchantment doesn't get countered you have to think that most of the time it's going to stick around so it's nice to know, and if they want to counter this, that's less counters for my intangible virtue or liliana of the veil lol
so do people see this as a viable strategy to help against these decks? I want honesty because trying to evaluate cards and sideboards can always be an evolving tactic for all mtg players lol
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
When I was splashing green for Abrupt Decay it was helping the merfolk and Twin matchup, but adding more shocks def hurts the Burn match-up.
I love Batwing Brume. It's at its best vs. infect, but it can be fringe help in all kinds of random things. For example, fogging boggle when you're racing can be a pretty big deal. Blind Obedience I go back and forth on. You can get a lot of benefit from it, particularly when a game goes longer, but it doesn't really completely hose anything, it just gives them a hoop to jump through. The one deck that it really shuts off is Goryo's Vengeance type reanimator.
thank you deathmist I really didn't even think about any reanimator decks OR boggle... but yes those are also great one that it hits as well. I wont know how my sideboard will do until I play the meta tomorrow, but im excited to get back into competitive mtg
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
How do you sideboard against Merfolks. I tested my tokens deck in a couple of tourneys now and so far I am 0-3 against tokens deck.
4 Isolated Chapel
1 Marsh Flats
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Caves of Koilos
5 Swamp
5 Plains
2 Auriok Champion
2 Dark Confidant
3 Blood Artist
2 Hero of Bladehold
4 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering Souls
4 Timely Reinforcements
1 Path to exile
1 Go for the Throat
1 Dismember
2 Zealous Persecution
4 Bitterblossom
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Angel's Grace
2 Refraction Trap
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Pithing Needle
2 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
1 Path to Exile
So I'm going out tonight to my testing group with friends and I plan to take it to FNM next week. Just some extra information about relevant cards I own:
1) Extra Paths
2) Playset of Leyline of Sanctity's.
3) A copy of Shambling vent from the prerelease
4) Lots of Sweepers and removal in general
Basically I'm just wondering if this deck is good enough so far. I know I only have one B/W fetchland as of right now, I'm going to try to find some more if I can find a good deal. Also I know some people here are playing Liliana but I just don't know, since I'm playing Auriok Champions and Hero's of Bladehold it just seems really hard on the mana to make that curve work. Anywho thanks in advance.
Well, if you can't get the Marsh Flats yet, you could play Windswept Heath and Flooded Strand. It's kinda hard you wanting to fetch for a basic swamp.
I like your deck, but it's probably not BW tokens
Some notes:
- Spectral Procession is one of (if not our best card). It's not great with bob tho.
- Path to Exile is our best removal, use 4 of them.
- Intangible Virtue is another card you always want a playset.
- I don't think blood artist really fits in this deck that well. If we had at least a sac outlet maybe...
In general, the core of the deck is:
4 Spectral Procession
4 Intangible Virtue
4 Bitterblossom (or Raise the Alarm) (or a split with both)
7 Thoughtseize/Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Path to Exile
To help fix your mana, we use at least 8 fetches and maybe 1 or 2 Fetid Heath.
Hey guys im back from my Sunday night Modern night. Results... 2-2 (one of my wins being a freaking bi round... lol)
First round I played against Zoo burn. He got me game 1, just got overran with goblin guide, monastery swiftspear, eidolon and burn spells.
2nd round an early duress landed me a skullcrack and a timely sorin got me through at plenty of life for him to scoop.
3rd game he had me down to 5 on t3, i lost obviously lol
2nd round was U/R Twin, I was nervous. Game 1 I won! Bitterblossom and intangible virtue with Sorin landed me some pretty good pressure with 2 thoughtseize seen that game to help keep him off his combo pieces.
Game 2 he had to combo and curved out just right with the right counters at the right time to land a combo kill.
Game 3 was a long one. He kept a 1 land hand with some good stuff, i thoughtseize a spell snare so i can land a Blinding obediance, then I play brimaz, then sorin then intangible viture followed by elsepth and another sorin. I'm playing through counter spells, clique, bolts and draw, but the pressure I kept on him with not overext3ending into pyroclasm or anger of the gods sealed the deal for me.
Round 3, tron. I dont even wanna talk about it, t3 karn over. next game was grindy but I got flooded on lands, and he landed tron late but still ugin is deadly for us.
All in all I love this deck, and will be developing a lot of time to getting all the pieces that I need in order to solidify this deck.
I am adding in a lot more hate to my sideboard for tron since it is by far my worse match up. Wrath of gods are probably going out of the sideboard, and I need 4 timely in my 75 for burn.
How do people feel about ghost quarter + surgical extraction? I mean this could turn off tron for the entire game which would help eliminate the hardcore mana productions that come out of tron... with the discard could help our combo hate after sideboard.. but mostly for tron lol
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.