make no mistake, wb tokens may not be top tier, but considering that our bad MU are Tron and Amulet, i think we have a good competitive deck
EDIT: would be amazing if they ban amulet of vigor, in the next ban season ^^
I just don't believe that these lists can function on that number of lands. And Ajani Goldmane seems so bad.
The PT list ran BB without Auriok Champion. It isn't necessary, but it helps. I wouldn't make such an absolute statement about it.
Not sure what you mean by "these lists" but I definitely think you can step down on lands to 22/23 when you alter the curve to have more 1 and 2 CMC spells than the average list. The list linked has upped low CMC cards vs. the average, and also cut colorless land vs. the avg. list.
make no mistake, wb tokens may not be top tier, but considering that our bad MU are Tron and Amulet, i think we have a good competitive deck
EDIT: would be amazing if they ban amulet of vigor, in the next ban season ^^
I just don't believe that these lists can function on that number of lands. And Ajani Goldmane seems so bad.
The PT list ran BB without Auriok Champion. It isn't necessary, but it helps. I wouldn't make such an absolute statement about it.
Not sure what you mean by "these lists" but I definitely think you can step down on lands to 22/23 when you alter the curve to have more 1 and 2 CMC spells than the average list. The list linked has upped low CMC cards vs. the average, and also cut colorless land vs. the avg. list.
The list I quoted and the one from last week that did well in the modern festival. That one ran 21 lands. The list actually raises its mana curve with the fourth four mana planeswalker despite adding Raise. http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=9993&d=257604&f=MO
I think Archangel is a worse version of Ghostly Prison, because it doesn't do anything against Twin.
tithes is a fine card, but i dont think it belongs on your shell. Trying the 3x auriok on deck... not worth it. sugest 2x. Ajany does the same thing splashing green for township... Hopeto ear if its worth it, one or another
Also, been playing with a single surgical extraction mainboard, on the place of the 24th land... yes i play 23 and doing good so far.
Getting wreckd by the increasing merfolk decks... engineered explosives is fine, but it wrecks my auriok, Bitterblossons and virtues if i make a push to win... maybe returning to hour of reckoning or a wrath of god?
Ghostly Prison seems great against merfolk, but I haven't gotten to test it yet; I have been running Hour of Reckoning, which I think is a strictly better Wrath in our deck. I generally remove some of my Thoughtseizes and board in my full seven removal.
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Hi all!!
What side cards would you recommend in a heavy combo meta? There are ad nauseam, UR Storm/Past in flames, jeskai ascendancy and living end decks.
Im going heavier with discards in the main deck, but would like to know some more side cards ^^.
Rest in Peace for Living End, Rule of Law against storm decks is helpful and Ad Nauseam.
Hi all!!
What side cards would you recommend in a heavy combo meta? There are ad nauseam, UR Storm/Past in flames, jeskai ascendancy and living end decks.
Im going heavier with discards in the main deck, but would like to know some more side cards ^^.
Rest in Peace for Living End, Rule of Law against storm decks is helpful and Ad Nauseam.
Rest in Peace and Surgical Extraction against Ascendancy as well. Rest in Peace also good against Storm. I like 2 Rip and 1 Surgical total in the board. If you're running Honor of the Pure, I think Eidolon of Rhetoric becomes better than Rule of Law. Rule of Law effects are also good against Living End; they cast the cascade spell, but can't cast the Living End. I'd also recommend three Sorin, Solemn Visitor; his lifelink can put you out of the reach of Grapeshot or Lightning Storm sometimes. I don't like Leyline of Sanctity against any of those decks. Disenchant is also necessary against Ad Nauseam, because they will be bringing Leyline in against your discard, but it can also hit Phyrexian Unlife. And Disenchant is good against Pyromancer's Ascension.
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What? How is leyline of sanctity not good against
storm and ascendancy storm? Leyline pretty much closes out those games if you have it in your opening hand. Leyline also wins games against Ad Nauseum, Scapeshift, Burn, 8rack, and Mill.
I didn't say "not good"; I said I don't like them. If Storm is only being pinched by a Leyline, they can dig for an Echoing Truth to bounce it. They don't need to bounce Leyline till the very last moment and have all the time to dig for it. Ascendancy does the same thing, but sometimes they can also just swing with a bajillion/bajillion Fate Stitcher. Leyline is bad against Ad Nauseam, because they draw their entire deck and have access to Patrician's Scorn, destroying the Leyline prior to casting Lightning Storm. Burn brings in Destructive Revelry in against us anyways, which I want to strand in their hand as much as possible when I play against them; Leyline is a huge target for it. I don't play against 8rack, Mill, or Scapeshift so sure, I guess you got me there. I don't think I've ever lost to 8rack online and assuming that Scapeshift couldn't just bounce Leyline with Cryptic prior to going off seems like a bad plan.
Banning announcement does not go in our favor. I had high hopes that banning decks that win on turn 2 would be a great boost to this deck, but alas, Wizards is inconsistent without any form of explanation whatsoever.
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they are traditionally slow to ban cards even though certain decks "break" the rules they set.
i am sure that various cards are on their unofficial watch list so a ban will happen in future but not the immediate.
i am an advocate of restricting problem cards in eternal formats instead of an outright ban which should have been the case for Pod / Cruise / Dig.
The only thing I wonder about every time is Stoneforge being banned while Snapcaster's legal. Am I the only one who thinks Snap is more powerful than Stoneforge (or at least pretty much equal to)?
More on topic, so far as creature-less builds go, I've only been running Auriok (no heroes in side) for the last few months. If you aren't playing Bitterblossom and there's not much burn/twin/jund/grixis I could see going creatureless.
Stoneforge grants you tremendous value when it resolves and even more if it survives a turn. Snappy's value although very powerful is only one turn. and it will just be a 2/1 creature.
Stoneforge is a very cheap repeatable tutor. That is very very powerful.
IMO the thing is, other decks are getting better and better cards in every new set (Kolaghan's Command), but we don't. the last time we actually had a decent card was Secure the Wastes.
On the topic of our match ups and also avoiding ban talk for the moment I wanted to suggest a few cards for a new threat: Collected Company decks. I was thinking that Hallowed Moonlight would be a great card to disrupt their CoCos and Chord of Callings. But while at my local event last night some one suggested Drown in Sorrow to put in the sideboard against CoCo. Could also work fairly well against Delver(or at least the Young Pyromancers and his tokens) or goblins now that they are on the rise as well. I'm not super keen on it myself as it hurts our tokens as well, but since they are just tokens I guess they are more expendable. Something to consider.
Rather than being dragged into ban talk, I just want to discuss the amulet match-up a little bit. First of all, just so you know I'm not talking complete twaddle... my main deck is amulet, and has been for almost 2 years (before it was popular). I've also played tokens quite frequently, though I have a mate who plays the deck to a much better standard (frequently top-8ing 50ish player events). I've tested BW tokens vs Amulet at home a lot, and tested amulet vs my mate playing tokens too - I've also played both decks online and come across the other... first of all, the match-up isn't that bad. The discard + clock makes for awkward games, and amulet can sometimes just beat itself. It doesn't particularly want ot mulligan when facing discard either. The leylines make life trickier for us in G2/G3, but...
Honor of the Pure + Mirran Crusader is REALLY tough to beat with titans. The titan deck has to have the sunhome in play to try fight it, but it's unlikely you'll fetch that up early, because you nearly always have better things to od with your lands (give it haste, find tolaria west, get ghost quarter for vault/windbrisk etc), so the amulet deck is almost relying on naturally drawing the sunhome to trade with mirran.
I feel like tokens is slightly favoured G1, and slightly behind on G2+G3, but mirran + honor is certainly a way to fight it. Obviously side in enchantment hate for leylines, and if you have space for memoricide effects, always name summoner's pact. It's their way of re-cycling titans and winning off hive mind. Most people make the mistake of naming primeval titan / hive mind. If you name summoner's pact and they land a primeval titan, you still have outs. If they land hive mind and summoner's pact, you don't. Plus, with summoner's pact gone, and slaughter pact easy to pay for - they're left with just U-pact, which I normally side out when playing amulet anyway. You'd be in a good spot at a guess!
I also feel like a murderous cut is worth running somewhere in the 75 (I run 1 dismember + 1 cut main), and that's a useful card in the match-up. Taking out a couple of main-deck discard isn't a bad idea if you know leylines are coming in.
Mirran Crusader and Honor of the Pure aren't being played in the deck, though. So I have to devote entire slots to a matchup that I can't guarantee seeing, but also can't beat if I don't board heavily for. That's an issue for the format as a whole. Mirran Crusader isn't even good against GBx, becuase of Bolt and Path.
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I just don't believe that these lists can function on that number of lands. And Ajani Goldmane seems so bad.
The PT list ran BB without Auriok Champion. It isn't necessary, but it helps. I wouldn't make such an absolute statement about it.
Not sure what you mean by "these lists" but I definitely think you can step down on lands to 22/23 when you alter the curve to have more 1 and 2 CMC spells than the average list. The list linked has upped low CMC cards vs. the average, and also cut colorless land vs. the avg. list.
The list I quoted and the one from last week that did well in the modern festival. That one ran 21 lands. The list actually raises its mana curve with the fourth four mana planeswalker despite adding Raise. http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=9993&d=257604&f=MO
I think Archangel is a worse version of Ghostly Prison, because it doesn't do anything against Twin.
Ghostly Prison seems great against merfolk, but I haven't gotten to test it yet; I have been running Hour of Reckoning, which I think is a strictly better Wrath in our deck. I generally remove some of my Thoughtseizes and board in my full seven removal.
Rest in Peace for Living End, Rule of Law against storm decks is helpful and Ad Nauseam.
Rest in Peace and Surgical Extraction against Ascendancy as well. Rest in Peace also good against Storm. I like 2 Rip and 1 Surgical total in the board. If you're running Honor of the Pure, I think Eidolon of Rhetoric becomes better than Rule of Law. Rule of Law effects are also good against Living End; they cast the cascade spell, but can't cast the Living End. I'd also recommend three Sorin, Solemn Visitor; his lifelink can put you out of the reach of Grapeshot or Lightning Storm sometimes. I don't like Leyline of Sanctity against any of those decks. Disenchant is also necessary against Ad Nauseam, because they will be bringing Leyline in against your discard, but it can also hit Phyrexian Unlife. And Disenchant is good against Pyromancer's Ascension.
I didn't say "not good"; I said I don't like them. If Storm is only being pinched by a Leyline, they can dig for an Echoing Truth to bounce it. They don't need to bounce Leyline till the very last moment and have all the time to dig for it. Ascendancy does the same thing, but sometimes they can also just swing with a bajillion/bajillion Fate Stitcher. Leyline is bad against Ad Nauseam, because they draw their entire deck and have access to Patrician's Scorn, destroying the Leyline prior to casting Lightning Storm. Burn brings in Destructive Revelry in against us anyways, which I want to strand in their hand as much as possible when I play against them; Leyline is a huge target for it. I don't play against 8rack, Mill, or Scapeshift so sure, I guess you got me there. I don't think I've ever lost to 8rack online and assuming that Scapeshift couldn't just bounce Leyline with Cryptic prior to going off seems like a bad plan.
Banning announcement does not go in our favor. I had high hopes that banning decks that win on turn 2 would be a great boost to this deck, but alas, Wizards is inconsistent without any form of explanation whatsoever.
WBTokensWB
As in not running Hero of Bladehold? I've never run him and have done moderately well.
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/banned-and-restricted-announcement-2015-07-13
No changes. Despite Griselbrand and Amulet breaking the turn four rule... which is bad news for our deck.
i am sure that various cards are on their unofficial watch list so a ban will happen in future but not the immediate.
i am an advocate of restricting problem cards in eternal formats instead of an outright ban which should have been the case for Pod / Cruise / Dig.
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
The only thing I wonder about every time is Stoneforge being banned while Snapcaster's legal. Am I the only one who thinks Snap is more powerful than Stoneforge (or at least pretty much equal to)?
More on topic, so far as creature-less builds go, I've only been running Auriok (no heroes in side) for the last few months. If you aren't playing Bitterblossom and there's not much burn/twin/jund/grixis I could see going creatureless.
Stoneforge is a very cheap repeatable tutor. That is very very powerful.
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
Both cards are from the same set.
WBTokensWB
Mirran Crusader and Honor of the Pure aren't being played in the deck, though. So I have to devote entire slots to a matchup that I can't guarantee seeing, but also can't beat if I don't board heavily for. That's an issue for the format as a whole. Mirran Crusader isn't even good against GBx, becuase of Bolt and Path.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord UB
R Godo, Bandit Warlord R
Haven't got to watch the videos yet, but will post back when I have. Two Delver matchups, an Affinity, and some random red deck.