I like Inquisition to rip Exarchs and to mess up their ability to tempo us out with Remand. I like to go full control deck against Twin, have answers for everything and slowly grind them out. By boarding in the Hero of Bladehold, you obviously want to close the game out more quickly.
With your list, I would be bringing in 2 Sundering Growth, 2 Zealous Persecution (Fogs comboing out with Deceiver and is a board wipe against Mites, Snaps, and Cliques), 1 Celestial Purge, 1 Go for the Throat, 2 Duress. Cutting 2 Sorin, 3 Honor, 1 Spectral, 2 Raise the Alarm.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
One of these day I have to get myself organizized.
-1 Honor of the Pure - (we need interaction, or dudes threatening them. I've lost too many games to flooding on anthems (may be a deck building problem I need to adjust)
Seven anthems seems at least one too many to start with. I run only four but that's likely one too few. I doubt I would ever go as high as six, seven is right out for me.
I always find myself falling into topdeck mode whenever I try to play too controlly, especially against blue decks that can selectively choose what resolves and draw a billion cards. Any way you mitigate that? In your suggested SB plan, you're cutting 8 'threat' cards for 8 'answers'. Seems like Twin could just counter all your actual token spells and eventually just kill you off. Do you just kill any of their creatures on sight?
I'd keep the Inquisitions and bring in duress. Inquisition of Kozilek will still hit the majority of the cards in twin mainly missing remand, cryptic command, and splinter twin but it hits all the creatures they want to combo with forcing them to cast it in response if they have the mana up and still getting another card in the process. In my case I'm splashing blue so I'd side in negate rather than bringing in duress.
You were framing Inquisition as if it doesn't hit important spells, when it hitting Remand and creatures is a completely valid thing.
You don't really fall into topdeck mode, because you often hold back your token spells till you can protect them with one of the ten discard spells you now have access to. Once you show an ability to keep them from comboing off by being the control deck, they have to respect the cards in your hand. I don't kill off Snaps or Cliques, because our creatures block them so well unless they tap out and I can two for one them with ZP. I don't kill their Twin targets until they cast the Twin, barring them beating me down with Mites or tapping my only land with one of their dudes. As long as you keep their twin targets off of the board or have a guaranteed answer against them then topdecking is fine. We topdeck better than them, drawing cantrips and bolts isn't all that impressive against us as long as you still have an answer for them comboing out.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
One of these day I have to get myself organizized.
Yeah I was framing it thinking we had to choose between the two, but I suppose going up to 8 discard against Twin isn't actually as awful as I thought it would be. I still like boarding in Heroes in the matchup as sometimes you just discard any gameplan they had and they just die in 2-3 turns. I think my Twin SB is gonna end up looking like:
And then for Temur Twin I'd probably leave the duresses in the board for Rest in Peace's ability to negate Snap AND Goyf, and for Grixis Twin I'd probably bring in the duresses and cut two more Raises for the Rest in Peaces to negate Tasigurs if they're playing them.
As for Abzan, how much discard is worth keeping around? Obviously against Smiter/Wilt-Leaf Abzan you chuck it all, but maybe keeping it around to murder off Rhinos/Goyfs for 1 mana is good.
Also, because they play Lingering Souls, Goyf, and Finks, do you bring in your GY hate (in your case Relic, in mine RIP), or do you just rely on Paths/ZP to clear them off?
Currently my general case Abzan board would probably be:
-3 Inquisition, -1 Thoughtseize, +2 Hero, +1 Go for the Throat, +1 Celestial Purge (for Liliana and Rhino)
And then I'd consider cutting Raises or Thoughtseizes for the RIPs
First, what do you think of Rest in Peace out of the board? I like Relic in terms of it not hitting our own Lingering Souls, but maybe that isn't such a big deal to just turn off graveyards? I've had some issues with being tapped out with a Relic in play and realizing that I screwed up.
That seems like a fine sideboard plan against Twin.
Against Abzan, I cut Inquisition and leave in Thoughtseize (3 or so) just to snipe Rhinos. But I probably should be cutting it all against Liege and Smiter versions. Post-board, I am bringing in one Relic and ZP to take out Souls tokens. I'm not bringing in Relic against the non-Goyf Liege version, because you never get priority to crack Relic and take their Souls out before they can flash it back in the same turn. If they stagger the flashback over two turns then I guess you can get them with a Relic. I guess bring in RiP would be fine against the Liege version. I think I agree with what you're saying in terms of boarding against Abzan.
Do you like Kor Firewalker against Burn more than Timely Reinforcements? I think you would also want to be boarding in Timely Reinforcements against Abzan Liege, but maybe not. They help if you fall behind and if you're not behind then you're winning. They just block Smiter, Liege, Hierarch, Pridemage so well.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
One of these day I have to get myself organizized.
@pzb - Dismember is a solid card, but the life loss/mana constraints can actually come into play. A month or so back I stopped playing dismembers for Murderous Cuts and have been pleased with the change. Additionally, the reason I like GftT over Dismember in the board for Twin is Spellskite. I've legit lost games to a turn 2 spellskite then on T5 they drop a Kiki and suddenly you need two removal spells just to kill the spellskite off.
@Trapped - As far as Rest in Peace in the general case goes, I adore it. I used to run Relic (cheaper, cycles) and found even against something like Dredgevine on a durdly hand of mine they could still just fight back through it. So I was meh on it. Then I played against Kitchen Finks/Goyf/Anafenza combo and I realized not only does it guarantee Goyf is a 0/1 until they kill it off, but it kills off Persist, Blood Artist triggers, all sorts of random things you find useful. It's fire and forget, and it's worked well for me. I've brought it in against Mono U Tron to prevent Mindslaver Locks, it shuts off Tasigur and Snapcaster... I'm a fan. But I'm always questioning if it's worth a card, because if they don't draw the cards RIP hoses, it's dead. Very feast or famine.
As for Burn... I ran Timely for a while and kept getting Skullcracked. It sucked. Also Taylor Swiftspear plays a fine game of just eating chump blockers forever if you don't draw removal, and 3 1/1s doesn't really helps stop her in the slightest. However Pro Red Dudes can block forever, and incremental lifegain guarantees you can bleed off some of the damage from their burn spells far more easily than dedicating massive lifegain turns hoping they don't skullcrack you (or Atarka's Command you).
I definitely could be resold on Timely Reinforcements as better in a broad case against creature decks, but I'm too worried about burn in particular, so I'll stick to Firewalker at States.
By the way, if anyone's curious, I'm planning for states around Top 8 results from last Sunday. Here's the results summed up that I'm using:
Splinter Twin 20
Affinity 17
Abzan Midrange 16
RW Burn 9
UG Infect 9
Jund 8
Merfolk 6
Temur Twin 6
Dredgevine 4
Jeskai Midrange 4
RG Tron 4
Scapeshift 4
Domain Zoo 3
Grixis Delver 3
Naya Aggro 3
UW Merfolk 3
Ad Nauseam Unlife 2
Amulet of Vigor 2
Collected Company 2
Death and Taxes 2
Grixis Moon 2
Living End 2
Loam Pox 2
Monoblue Tron 2
Monogreen Aggro 2
Monogreen Devotion 2
Monored Burn 2
Naya Burn 2
RG Aggro 2
RG Breach Combo 2
Wilted Abzan 2
Zoo 2
4C Control 1
4C Midrange 1
Blue Moon 1
Bogles 1
BR Burn 1
Elves 1
Esper Mentor 1
GB Midrange 1
Gifts Tron 1
Grixis Twin 1
Jeskai Aggro 1
Jeskai Control 1
Jeskai Delver 1
Monoblack Devotion 1
Monogreen Infect 1
Monored Devotion 1
Pyromancer Ascension 1
Sultai Control 1
Takin' Turns 1
Temur Moon 1
Twinshift 1
UB Faeries 1
Unburial Gifts 1
UR Delver 1
UW Control 1
I'm currently stuck pondering how to board for my Merfolk matchup. Zealous Persecution seems bad against Lord Effects and 2/2s, but then against it's also a solid trick. Also, Sundering Growth may want to come in for Spreading Seas and Vial, but it it actually worth? Blegh
Just played against Merfolk online. I won with Zealous coming in, with Disenchant and another removal spell. I was able to grind the game out with Champion holding me into the game and discard nailing lords. I think Disenchant is important to keep them off of Islandwalk. Islandwalk puts them on a different axis than our chump blocking. Trimming on my top end in terms of stuff to take out.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
One of these day I have to get myself organizized.
Hello all. Longtime lurker. I've been playing bw tokens online for a few months now gearing up for a modern gp in the fall. I have a few questions I'm hoping to get feedback on. I'm sorry if these have been discussed in the past, but at 91 pages the thread is difficult to thoroughly review. Thanks in advance. I really like the deck and fully intend on continuing to play it. I look forward to future posts when I might be able to provide input from my experiences playing it.
1. What is the correct number of Windbrisk Heights? Seems to me that the card has too much value to not play at least 2, but sometimes 4 seems like too many. Is this purely a matter of preference?
2. What are the reviews on Secure the Wastes? Is it a 1-of? I like that it makes warriors instead of soldiers. It makes a Maelstrom Pulse worse if we've already played one of our soldier makers. Not a huge factor, but it could come up.
3. Why has Bitterblossom fallen out of favor? Do you think a lot of it is the price, or is it just not what we want right now? What matchups does it excel in? Obviously it's bad against burn.
4. I know it's all speculation at this point, but do we think BB or Auriok Champion are likely to get a reprint in the new modern masters?
5. So far I haven't seen any bw token decks make the top 8 in states. Do you think the deck is more accurately described as under the radar or poorly positions for the current meta?
Hello all. Longtime lurker. I've been playing bw tokens online for a few months now gearing up for a modern gp in the fall. I have a few questions I'm hoping to get feedback on. I'm sorry if these have been discussed in the past, but at 91 pages the thread is difficult to thoroughly review. Thanks in advance. I really like the deck and fully intend on continuing to play it. I look forward to future posts when I might be able to provide input from my experiences playing it.
1. What is the correct number of Windbrisk Heights? Seems to me that the card has too much value to not play at least 2, but sometimes 4 seems like too many. Is this purely a matter of preference?
2. What are the reviews on Secure the Wastes? Is it a 1-of? I like that it makes warriors instead of soldiers. It makes a Maelstrom Pulse worse if we've already played one of our soldier makers. Not a huge factor, but it could come up.
3. Why has Bitterblossom fallen out of favor? Do you think a lot of it is the price, or is it just not what we want right now? What matchups does it excel in? Obviously it's bad against burn.
4. I know it's all speculation at this point, but do we think BB or Auriok Champion are likely to get a reprint in the new modern masters?
5. So far I haven't seen any bw token decks make the top 8 in states. Do you think the deck is more accurately described as under the radar or poorly positions for the current meta?
Thanks again.
Regarding the number of Windbrisk Heights, I think its based on the number of land that come tapped into play. I mean, if you use like...4 Isolated Chapel plus 4 Windbrisk Heights that will be too many lands that come tapped, and you will often have slow game starts.
I really think there's a great chance of BB and Auriok Champion being reprinted. I'd wait a month to get those cards
As I consider what I read here and my own experiences in matches, it seems to me that Aven Mindcensor and Rule of Law are less relevant. I am considering replacing them with some combination of 2 duress and 1 nevermore. Thoughts?
As I consider what I read here and my own experiences in matches, it seems to me that Aven Mindcensor and Rule of Law are less relevant. I am considering replacing them with some combination of 2 duress and 1 nevermore. Thoughts?
Two thumbs up for Duress, one thumb down for Nevermore. The latter seems as if it should be awesome but I've never gotten it to work or even seen anyone get it to work. I think it's just too much to spend on a card that might do some good at some point instead of impacting the game when played.
Doom Blade does not hit Rhino. Usually we have a few disenchants on SB to replace GftT in case of need.
Against Twin my match is not that bad, I run 4 Aurioks MB, what scares me is scapeshift, I couldnt do anyting against it. I intend to run 4 Slaughter Games SB against ALL combo decks, the final solution. Duress is a good choice but if they dont have the combo piece on had at that time (and it can be countered), u fail.
3) bitterblossom is a matter of play style and preference. If you favor discard and controlling, then you include blossom. If you want a more aggressive strategy, you go raise the alarm. If you like both then you play both.
4) I will fall over and die if they aren't reprinted.
5) under the radar. I have blow out matches against the top tier decks. Twin and infect is a problem but I am a mediocre player. I even beat burn. I think the fact that we haven't seen much pro success (or play) is hurting our status in "tier" play, but that doesn't bother me because I don't want to have to deal with token hate post board.
Doom Blade does not hit Rhino. Usually we have a few disenchants on SB to replace GftT in case of need.
Against Twin my match is not that bad, I run 4 Aurioks MB, what scares me is scapeshift, I couldnt do anyting against it. I intend to run 4 Slaughter Games SB against ALL combo decks, the final solution. Duress is a good choice but if they dont have the combo piece on had at that time (and it can be countered), u fail.
Definitely worth a shot. What red sources do you plan on running?
3) bitterblossom is a matter of play style and preference. If you favor discard and controlling, then you include blossom. If you want a more aggressive strategy, you go raise the alarm. If you like both then you play both.
4) I will fall over and die if they aren't reprinted.
5) under the radar. I have blow out matches against the top tier decks. Twin and infect is a problem but I am a mediocre player. I even beat burn. I think the fact that we haven't seen much pro success (or play) is hurting our status in "tier" play, but that doesn't bother me because I don't want to have to deal with token hate post board.
5. So far I haven't seen any bw token decks make the top 8 in states. Do you think the deck is more accurately described as under the radar or poorly positions for the current meta?
Thanks again.
There are several things at play here in my opinion.
1. We aren't a deck that people get excited about playing for whatever reason. The spike follow-the-leader types and modern Johnny players both don't find BW tokens that interesting, especially since not enough people play it. (Self fulfilling prophecy situation to a certain extent.) I live in a moderately sized city with a solid MTG scene, but between all of the major shops, so far as I can tell there are only two, maybe three, BW tokens players. We both sometimes do well and sometimes just fall on our faces.
2. There are fringe decks we can just fold to (RG land destruction, circumstantially Boggles, a few other decks).
3. We have broadly decent matchups but are higher variance. Compared to Twin, Junk, Burn or Infect we're less consistent. I think all of us have had that match where we have 3+ Sorins, 3+ Auriok, 3+ Kor Firewalker, Vault of the Archangel, etc. in our deck post board, and somehow still lose to burn. Or the game where we think we've got everything and then somehow lose to some god top decks out of infect. We can definitely win against the top tier decks, but not quite enough of the time. Given 9 rounds against a solid modern field I'd expect to be 6-3 instead of 7-2 on average.
4. Some of the staple and frequently played cards for our deck or too expensive for newer players. Auriok Champion, Bitterblossom, Thoughtseize, etc., depending on build. I personally know a number of people interested in trying BW with Bitterblossom but just don't want to pay the price.
Ultimately, I think the biggest factor contributing to these is consistency. In most other decks cards stand on their own or have optional synergy. But we really need an anthem and token makers, but there's a non trivial number of games where we won't get one or the other, or where we can't power through a destroyed anthem and we have really limited space for increasing the numbers.
So I played this in a local modern Tourney went 3-1
Lost to Bloom Titan, he ripped like a savage severl times in game 3
beat 8 Rack, Abzan, and Abzan Wilt-Leaf
Comments
The main deck Timley's were much better than I thought they would be, and never had them be awkward, could have just been random luck in a small sample size, but will keep them in for now to get more games in.
Sideboard could use some work, I don't have auriok's there becasue I don't have them, if I did they would take Firewalker slot.
The main deck Lily's I only drew one once and it was good when I did.
Never saw Elspeth Tirel.
As long as I keep an anthem in play the Abzan match up is very favorable.
Think I could use a bit more disruption in the board for Bloom Titan.
Any questions or comments would be appreciated, thanks.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
With your list, I would be bringing in 2 Sundering Growth, 2 Zealous Persecution (Fogs comboing out with Deceiver and is a board wipe against Mites, Snaps, and Cliques), 1 Celestial Purge, 1 Go for the Throat, 2 Duress. Cutting 2 Sorin, 3 Honor, 1 Spectral, 2 Raise the Alarm.
Seven anthems seems at least one too many to start with. I run only four but that's likely one too few. I doubt I would ever go as high as six, seven is right out for me.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
I always find myself falling into topdeck mode whenever I try to play too controlly, especially against blue decks that can selectively choose what resolves and draw a billion cards. Any way you mitigate that? In your suggested SB plan, you're cutting 8 'threat' cards for 8 'answers'. Seems like Twin could just counter all your actual token spells and eventually just kill you off. Do you just kill any of their creatures on sight?
You don't really fall into topdeck mode, because you often hold back your token spells till you can protect them with one of the ten discard spells you now have access to. Once you show an ability to keep them from comboing off by being the control deck, they have to respect the cards in your hand. I don't kill off Snaps or Cliques, because our creatures block them so well unless they tap out and I can two for one them with ZP. I don't kill their Twin targets until they cast the Twin, barring them beating me down with Mites or tapping my only land with one of their dudes. As long as you keep their twin targets off of the board or have a guaranteed answer against them then topdecking is fine. We topdeck better than them, drawing cantrips and bolts isn't all that impressive against us as long as you still have an answer for them comboing out.
-2 Sorin, -2 Honor, -2 Raise, +2 Hero, +2 Duress, +1 Purge, +1 GftT
And then for Temur Twin I'd probably leave the duresses in the board for Rest in Peace's ability to negate Snap AND Goyf, and for Grixis Twin I'd probably bring in the duresses and cut two more Raises for the Rest in Peaces to negate Tasigurs if they're playing them.
As for Abzan, how much discard is worth keeping around? Obviously against Smiter/Wilt-Leaf Abzan you chuck it all, but maybe keeping it around to murder off Rhinos/Goyfs for 1 mana is good.
Also, because they play Lingering Souls, Goyf, and Finks, do you bring in your GY hate (in your case Relic, in mine RIP), or do you just rely on Paths/ZP to clear them off?
Currently my general case Abzan board would probably be:
-3 Inquisition, -1 Thoughtseize, +2 Hero, +1 Go for the Throat, +1 Celestial Purge (for Liliana and Rhino)
And then I'd consider cutting Raises or Thoughtseizes for the RIPs
After thinking about it a while, isn't Dismember just about the best removal available against Twin?
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
That seems like a fine sideboard plan against Twin.
Against Abzan, I cut Inquisition and leave in Thoughtseize (3 or so) just to snipe Rhinos. But I probably should be cutting it all against Liege and Smiter versions. Post-board, I am bringing in one Relic and ZP to take out Souls tokens. I'm not bringing in Relic against the non-Goyf Liege version, because you never get priority to crack Relic and take their Souls out before they can flash it back in the same turn. If they stagger the flashback over two turns then I guess you can get them with a Relic. I guess bring in RiP would be fine against the Liege version. I think I agree with what you're saying in terms of boarding against Abzan.
Do you like Kor Firewalker against Burn more than Timely Reinforcements? I think you would also want to be boarding in Timely Reinforcements against Abzan Liege, but maybe not. They help if you fall behind and if you're not behind then you're winning. They just block Smiter, Liege, Hierarch, Pridemage so well.
@Trapped - As far as Rest in Peace in the general case goes, I adore it. I used to run Relic (cheaper, cycles) and found even against something like Dredgevine on a durdly hand of mine they could still just fight back through it. So I was meh on it. Then I played against Kitchen Finks/Goyf/Anafenza combo and I realized not only does it guarantee Goyf is a 0/1 until they kill it off, but it kills off Persist, Blood Artist triggers, all sorts of random things you find useful. It's fire and forget, and it's worked well for me. I've brought it in against Mono U Tron to prevent Mindslaver Locks, it shuts off Tasigur and Snapcaster... I'm a fan. But I'm always questioning if it's worth a card, because if they don't draw the cards RIP hoses, it's dead. Very feast or famine.
As for Burn... I ran Timely for a while and kept getting Skullcracked. It sucked. Also Taylor Swiftspear plays a fine game of just eating chump blockers forever if you don't draw removal, and 3 1/1s doesn't really helps stop her in the slightest. However Pro Red Dudes can block forever, and incremental lifegain guarantees you can bleed off some of the damage from their burn spells far more easily than dedicating massive lifegain turns hoping they don't skullcrack you (or Atarka's Command you).
I definitely could be resold on Timely Reinforcements as better in a broad case against creature decks, but I'm too worried about burn in particular, so I'll stick to Firewalker at States.
By the way, if anyone's curious, I'm planning for states around Top 8 results from last Sunday. Here's the results summed up that I'm using:
Splinter Twin 20
Affinity 17
Abzan Midrange 16
RW Burn 9
UG Infect 9
Jund 8
Merfolk 6
Temur Twin 6
Dredgevine 4
Jeskai Midrange 4
RG Tron 4
Scapeshift 4
Domain Zoo 3
Grixis Delver 3
Naya Aggro 3
UW Merfolk 3
Ad Nauseam Unlife 2
Amulet of Vigor 2
Collected Company 2
Death and Taxes 2
Grixis Moon 2
Living End 2
Loam Pox 2
Monoblue Tron 2
Monogreen Aggro 2
Monogreen Devotion 2
Monored Burn 2
Naya Burn 2
RG Aggro 2
RG Breach Combo 2
Wilted Abzan 2
Zoo 2
4C Control 1
4C Midrange 1
Blue Moon 1
Bogles 1
BR Burn 1
Elves 1
Esper Mentor 1
GB Midrange 1
Gifts Tron 1
Grixis Twin 1
Jeskai Aggro 1
Jeskai Control 1
Jeskai Delver 1
Monoblack Devotion 1
Monogreen Infect 1
Monored Devotion 1
Pyromancer Ascension 1
Sultai Control 1
Takin' Turns 1
Temur Moon 1
Twinshift 1
UB Faeries 1
Unburial Gifts 1
UR Delver 1
UW Control 1
I'm currently stuck pondering how to board for my Merfolk matchup. Zealous Persecution seems bad against Lord Effects and 2/2s, but then against it's also a solid trick. Also, Sundering Growth may want to come in for Spreading Seas and Vial, but it it actually worth? Blegh
1. What is the correct number of Windbrisk Heights? Seems to me that the card has too much value to not play at least 2, but sometimes 4 seems like too many. Is this purely a matter of preference?
2. What are the reviews on Secure the Wastes? Is it a 1-of? I like that it makes warriors instead of soldiers. It makes a Maelstrom Pulse worse if we've already played one of our soldier makers. Not a huge factor, but it could come up.
3. Why has Bitterblossom fallen out of favor? Do you think a lot of it is the price, or is it just not what we want right now? What matchups does it excel in? Obviously it's bad against burn.
4. I know it's all speculation at this point, but do we think BB or Auriok Champion are likely to get a reprint in the new modern masters?
5. So far I haven't seen any bw token decks make the top 8 in states. Do you think the deck is more accurately described as under the radar or poorly positions for the current meta?
Thanks again.
Regarding the number of Windbrisk Heights, I think its based on the number of land that come tapped into play. I mean, if you use like...4 Isolated Chapel plus 4 Windbrisk Heights that will be too many lands that come tapped, and you will often have slow game starts.
I really think there's a great chance of BB and Auriok Champion being reprinted. I'd wait a month to get those cards
2 Torpor Orb
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
1 Doom Blade
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Disenchant
1 Rule of Law
As I consider what I read here and my own experiences in matches, it seems to me that Aven Mindcensor and Rule of Law are less relevant. I am considering replacing them with some combination of 2 duress and 1 nevermore. Thoughts?
Two thumbs up for Duress, one thumb down for Nevermore. The latter seems as if it should be awesome but I've never gotten it to work or even seen anyone get it to work. I think it's just too much to spend on a card that might do some good at some point instead of impacting the game when played.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Doom Blade does not hit Rhino. Usually we have a few disenchants on SB to replace GftT in case of need.
Against Twin my match is not that bad, I run 4 Aurioks MB, what scares me is scapeshift, I couldnt do anyting against it. I intend to run 4 Slaughter Games SB against ALL combo decks, the final solution. Duress is a good choice but if they dont have the combo piece on had at that time (and it can be countered), u fail.
3) bitterblossom is a matter of play style and preference. If you favor discard and controlling, then you include blossom. If you want a more aggressive strategy, you go raise the alarm. If you like both then you play both.
4) I will fall over and die if they aren't reprinted.
5) under the radar. I have blow out matches against the top tier decks. Twin and infect is a problem but I am a mediocre player. I even beat burn. I think the fact that we haven't seen much pro success (or play) is hurting our status in "tier" play, but that doesn't bother me because I don't want to have to deal with token hate post board.
Definitely worth a shot. What red sources do you plan on running?
Thanks for the info!
There are several things at play here in my opinion.
1. We aren't a deck that people get excited about playing for whatever reason. The spike follow-the-leader types and modern Johnny players both don't find BW tokens that interesting, especially since not enough people play it. (Self fulfilling prophecy situation to a certain extent.) I live in a moderately sized city with a solid MTG scene, but between all of the major shops, so far as I can tell there are only two, maybe three, BW tokens players. We both sometimes do well and sometimes just fall on our faces.
2. There are fringe decks we can just fold to (RG land destruction, circumstantially Boggles, a few other decks).
3. We have broadly decent matchups but are higher variance. Compared to Twin, Junk, Burn or Infect we're less consistent. I think all of us have had that match where we have 3+ Sorins, 3+ Auriok, 3+ Kor Firewalker, Vault of the Archangel, etc. in our deck post board, and somehow still lose to burn. Or the game where we think we've got everything and then somehow lose to some god top decks out of infect. We can definitely win against the top tier decks, but not quite enough of the time. Given 9 rounds against a solid modern field I'd expect to be 6-3 instead of 7-2 on average.
4. Some of the staple and frequently played cards for our deck or too expensive for newer players. Auriok Champion, Bitterblossom, Thoughtseize, etc., depending on build. I personally know a number of people interested in trying BW with Bitterblossom but just don't want to pay the price.
Ultimately, I think the biggest factor contributing to these is consistency. In most other decks cards stand on their own or have optional synergy. But we really need an anthem and token makers, but there's a non trivial number of games where we won't get one or the other, or where we can't power through a destroyed anthem and we have really limited space for increasing the numbers.
2x Honor of the Pure
4x Godless Shrine 4x Spectral Procession
4x Marsh Flats 4x Lingering Souls
2x Isolated Chapel 2x Timley Reinforcements
2x Windswept Heath 4x Path to Exile
1x Arid Mesa 1x Doom Blade
1x Fetid Heath 1x Dismember
1x Temple Garden 4x Thoughtseize
1x Gavony Township 3x Inquistion of Kozilek
1x Vault of the Archangel Sideboard
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth 3x Kor Firewalker
1x Swamp 2x Stoney Silence
5x Plains 2x Sundering Growth
2x Zealous Persecution
2x Sorin, Solemn Visitor 1x Stain the Mind
1x Elspeth Tirel
2x Liliana of the Veil
So I played this in a local modern Tourney went 3-1
Lost to Bloom Titan, he ripped like a savage severl times in game 3
beat 8 Rack, Abzan, and Abzan Wilt-Leaf
Comments
The main deck Timley's were much better than I thought they would be, and never had them be awkward, could have just been random luck in a small sample size, but will keep them in for now to get more games in.
Sideboard could use some work, I don't have auriok's there becasue I don't have them, if I did they would take Firewalker slot.
The main deck Lily's I only drew one once and it was good when I did.
Never saw Elspeth Tirel.
As long as I keep an anthem in play the Abzan match up is very favorable.
Think I could use a bit more disruption in the board for Bloom Titan.
Any questions or comments would be appreciated, thanks.