But why, it does the same job as intangible virtue for less??
Don't just say its a no, please explain
Not even in the same ballpark. Signal Pest only provides a benefit to power, and only when you attack (as compared to vigilance, and a constant buff to both attack and defense). Pest is also a terrible top deck.
This is my current list. For a budget around $200 I can finish this deck. I already own 1 Liliana. Is this list fine? Any other suggestions I should do/change?
But why, it does the same job as intangible virtue for less??
Don't just say its a no, please explain
Not even in the same ballpark. Signal Pest only provides a benefit to power, and only when you attack (as compared to vigilance, and a constant buff to both attack and defense). Pest is also a terrible top deck.
There's the explanation (from the creator of the primer itself). Anthems will always be better (but not overcosted ones like Dictate of Heliod or even a Spear of Heliod).
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The other thing that makes the anthem package better than pest is anthems are enchantments and therefore harder to remove than a creature. The moment a creature other than a token hits the battlefield, it is a target for removal. You want anthem effects to survive. One of the reasons for why you don't just drop a Hero of Bladehold on turn 4.
Your landbase could use a little work if you want to play Ghost Quarter. Get 2 more fetches instead of 2 swamps and maybe 1 or 2 Caves of Koilos for some chapels. This way you have more white sorces for T3 Procession and more black sources for T1 discard.
Thanks for the feedback!
Could you elaborate what you mean by adding more fetches? I already have the 4 WB fetches. Are you suggesting adding 2 fetches of a different color just to use their effect, even if they can only get me a swamp or a plains? What would be the advantage of doing that?
I don't play any Caves at all in my build. I prefer to have 4 chapels, and I have found them to be fine. It kind of comes down to a feel for it I think.
I don't play any Caves at all in my build. I prefer to have 4 chapels, and I have found them to be fine. It kind of comes down to a feel for it I think.
I also play the chapels over Caves too. The advantage from caves is that you can cast off a turn 1 discard from it (while taking 1 damage), while the chapel could not. Still, I go for the chapels.
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I don't play any Caves at all in my build. I prefer to have 4 chapels, and I have found them to be fine. It kind of comes down to a feel for it I think.
I also play the chapels over Caves too. The advantage from caves is that you can cast off a turn 1 discard from it (while taking 1 damage), while the chapel could not. Still, I go for the chapels.
I also hate caves. What I do is 7 fetches, 3 shocks, and 2 chapels along with 5 plains, 2 windbrisk, 2 vaults, and 2 swamps, however I'm hedging against a blood moon heavy local meta. If you don't see blood moon a lot, I'd go with 8 fetches, 4 shocks, 2 chapels, 4 plains, 2 windbrisk, 2 vaults, and 1 swamp. Though windbrisk and plains are somewhat interchangeable to personal preference. And if you run BB maybe add an extra swamp, and if you play ghost quarter go up to 24 or 25 lands.
Your landbase could use a little work if you want to play Ghost Quarter. Get 2 more fetches instead of 2 swamps and maybe 1 or 2 Caves of Koilos for some chapels. This way you have more white sorces for T3 Procession and more black sources for T1 discard.
Thanks for the feedback!
Could you elaborate what you mean by adding more fetches? I already have the 4 WB fetches. Are you suggesting adding 2 fetches of a different color just to use their effect, even if they can only get me a swamp or a plains? What would be the advantage of doing that?
By more fetches I mean Windswept Heath, Flooded Strand and Arid Mesa, basically any fetchland that can provide you with a basic plains. The advantage is that you can search Godless Shrine with them (since its type says "Plains Swamp") if you need a black source or just a basic plains if you need an untapped white source and don't want to take damage. More fetchlands simply assure you always have the mana you need.
As others have already stated, playing a split of Caves of Koilos and Isolated Chapel is probably personal preference. I always hated having discard for turn 1 but only chapel, vault and plains as lands.
I tweaked the land base a bit based on the feedback (and on me drawing a bunch of hands and not liking my initial hands too much). I also removed a Mirran Crusader in favor for an extra Honor of the Pure. And I created a sideboard, of course.
I'll be taking it tonight to a local tournament. I'll post my impressions afterwards, but a lot of it will be just me learning to play the deck and learning what other games are out there in Modern. I'm sure people are going to laugh at me as I don't know which card to discard from their hand when I Thoughtseize them
Thanks for the help (and the whole thread, it's been super useful!)
Hey guys, new Modern (and mtg in general :v) player here. I'm currently running a modified Modern Event Deck. Changes are replacing the Caves of Koilos with a playset of Godless Shrine, running 3x Hero of Bladehold, swapping a couple of fetchlands for basic lands, and minor sideboard changes. I have a few questions:
2. What should be my primary Windbrisk Heights targets? A lot of times I draw token producers and pump spells, and I don't know what I should favor.
3. While I'm on the topic of Windbrisk Heights: is it really necessary to have four in a deck? Top decking a Windbrisk Heights late in the game feels like a dead draw, especially when I'm behind on the board/have few tokens or have nothing to spend mana on.
I was wondering about that too. I saw most people running Doom Blade so I went for that. I figured that maybe the meta has a more artifact creatures than black creatures? I really don't know since I'm completely new to Modern (and to this particular event). Someone recommended going with one of each, so that may be a better idea.
Paranoia:
1) It depends on your meta, but I would argue yes. Sorin has the potential to get you out of a stalemate, especially versus Abzan. In addition, Hero will close out the game or pressure your opponent, but he can't help you with a bad board state since he has to attack to get benefit.
2) It depends on your hand and board state and who you are playing. If you need tokens, then tokens, if you have some, then anthems. If you expect spells to get countered, you might duplicate what you already have. I generally go for anthem effects, walkers, or my Heroes as first priority (in a vacuum), then token producers. Occasionally, discard.
3) I go for 3 and have had a few times with awkward land plays (turn 3 I need a land and I get Windbrisk). Whatever, you always risk having lands come into play tapped or awkward draws, that is Magic. You also have to judge the deck: if you play aggressively, then you will use them. If you tend to wait and control the board, then less so. The problem with Windbrisk heights is similar to Heroes of Bladehold: you have to attack to use it.
Having said this, there are clear benefits that go beyond simply drawing a card. You get a limited scry and to choose your draw. It also forces your opponent to make some weird choices. Some people were blown out by a Heights before, so they are deathly afraid of letting you attack with 3 creatures. So, they waste removal on a token when they should have waited for the Hero of Bladehold in your hand. They blow up your Heights when the real threat is the sole black mana generating land.
My point is basically what Craig Wescoe has said in a past article: everything on the board is a threat. White weenie strategies work because they play a mind game on the opponent and because they are legitimately threatening. Sometimes, you play a Hero knowing they are going to path it. Why? Because I want them to waste removal on that and not the 2/2 flier that will become a 3/3 when I play my anthem effect and end the game. Sometimes, I play a walker because it distracts them from attacking me for one turn so I can get in for lethal. Windbrisk Heights is a threat. They have no idea what card I will flip and so they try to keep us off of our third attacker when I could just flip a Raise the Alarm.
Has anyone ever run a 5 drop? Thinking of Obzedat.
The problem with Obzedat is that he is just slow and costs 1WWBB - double mana for both colors. While he does snatch some life points (for 2), he can easily be answered in this format unlike during his Standard days. Opponent can still respond on your EOT before you exile him (e.g. Path to Exile) and all you did is waste 5 mana.
Plus, what would you take out from the deck for it? Most likely, he'll take a space from your walkers slot. Also, despite being a 5/5, he has no evasion.
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Has anyone ever run a 5 drop? Thinking of Obzedat.
The problem with Obzedat is that he is just slow and costs 1WWBB - double mana for both colors. While he does snatch some life points (for 2), he can easily be answered in this format unlike during his Standard days. Opponent can still respond on your EOT before you exile him (e.g. Path to Exile) and all you did is waste 5 mana.
Plus, what would you take out from the deck for it? Most likely, he'll take a space from your walkers slot. Also, despite being a 5/5, he has no evasion.
Sometimes people run Blood Baron, I think. Probably better than Obzedat, but still has its issues. Might be better now that we tend to gain a lot of life off Sorin.
Has anyone ever run a 5 drop? Thinking of Obzedat.
The problem with Obzedat is that he is just slow and costs 1WWBB - double mana for both colors. While he does snatch some life points (for 2), he can easily be answered in this format unlike during his Standard days. Opponent can still respond on your EOT before you exile him (e.g. Path to Exile) and all you did is waste 5 mana.
Plus, what would you take out from the deck for it? Most likely, he'll take a space from your walkers slot. Also, despite being a 5/5, he has no evasion.
Sometimes people run Blood Baron, I think. Probably better than Obzedat, but still has its issues. Might be better now that we tend to gain a lot of life off Sorin.
In case of testing either the baron or ghost dad, which in the main will you take out in favor of these?
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Standard Decks:Retired
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2 Honor of the Pure
3 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2 Hero of Bladehold
3 Zealous Persecution
3 Path to Exile
4 Lingering Souls
3 Raise the Alarm
4 Spectral Procession
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Godless Shrine
4 Isolated Chapel
2 Caves of Koilos
3 Windbrisk Heights
5 Plains
3 Swamp
2 Vault of the Archangel
1 Dismember
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Duress
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Secure the Wastes
3 Stony Silence
1 Slaughter Pact
3 Runed Halo
2 Sundering Growth
3 Kor Firewalker
1 Stain the Mind
2 Mirran Crusader
This is my current list. For a budget around $200 I can finish this deck. I already own 1 Liliana. Is this list fine? Any other suggestions I should do/change?
There's the explanation (from the creator of the primer itself). Anthems will always be better (but not overcosted ones like Dictate of Heliod or even a Spear of Heliod).
I do not see a reason to main deck timely reinforcements givin your setup. I think you need +2 honor of the pure.
Thanks for the feedback!
Could you elaborate what you mean by adding more fetches? I already have the 4 WB fetches. Are you suggesting adding 2 fetches of a different color just to use their effect, even if they can only get me a swamp or a plains? What would be the advantage of doing that?
Also, Caves of Kolios instead of Isolated Chapel to avoid having them come in tapped early on?
I also play the chapels over Caves too. The advantage from caves is that you can cast off a turn 1 discard from it (while taking 1 damage), while the chapel could not. Still, I go for the chapels.
I also hate caves. What I do is 7 fetches, 3 shocks, and 2 chapels along with 5 plains, 2 windbrisk, 2 vaults, and 2 swamps, however I'm hedging against a blood moon heavy local meta. If you don't see blood moon a lot, I'd go with 8 fetches, 4 shocks, 2 chapels, 4 plains, 2 windbrisk, 2 vaults, and 1 swamp. Though windbrisk and plains are somewhat interchangeable to personal preference. And if you run BB maybe add an extra swamp, and if you play ghost quarter go up to 24 or 25 lands.
By more fetches I mean Windswept Heath, Flooded Strand and Arid Mesa, basically any fetchland that can provide you with a basic plains. The advantage is that you can search Godless Shrine with them (since its type says "Plains Swamp") if you need a black source or just a basic plains if you need an untapped white source and don't want to take damage. More fetchlands simply assure you always have the mana you need.
As others have already stated, playing a split of Caves of Koilos and Isolated Chapel is probably personal preference. I always hated having discard for turn 1 but only chapel, vault and plains as lands.
1 Mirran Crusader
2 Hero of the Bladehold
Tokens
4 Lingering Souls
4 Spectral Procession
3 Raise the Alarm
Anthems
4 Honor of the Pure
3 Intangible Virtue
Removal
4 Path to Exile
2 Doom Blade
2 Zealous Persecution
Hand destruction
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Elspeth Tirel
Lands (23)
4 Marsh Flats
4 Godless Shrine
3 Isolated Chapel
2 Windbrisk Heights
2 Windswept Heath
2 Caves of Koilos
4 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Dismember
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Ghost Quarters
2 Stony Silence
1 Disenchant
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Mirran Crusader
I'll be taking it tonight to a local tournament. I'll post my impressions afterwards, but a lot of it will be just me learning to play the deck and learning what other games are out there in Modern. I'm sure people are going to laugh at me as I don't know which card to discard from their hand when I Thoughtseize them
Thanks for the help (and the whole thread, it's been super useful!)
1. Right now I have a Sorin, Lord of Innistrad. Should I replace one of my Hero of Bladeholds with it, or replace something else and have four 4 drops?
2. What should be my primary Windbrisk Heights targets? A lot of times I draw token producers and pump spells, and I don't know what I should favor.
3. While I'm on the topic of Windbrisk Heights: is it really necessary to have four in a deck? Top decking a Windbrisk Heights late in the game feels like a dead draw, especially when I'm behind on the board/have few tokens or have nothing to spend mana on.
Thank you!
@paranoiaplus
1. I have four 4 drops right now and it's working for me.
2. Primary Hideaway targets that I go for are my planeswalkers, Hero, or Spectral. But that's just me.
3. I always go for 2. That seems to be a good number.
WBTokensWB
I was wondering about that too. I saw most people running Doom Blade so I went for that. I figured that maybe the meta has a more artifact creatures than black creatures? I really don't know since I'm completely new to Modern (and to this particular event). Someone recommended going with one of each, so that may be a better idea.
1) It depends on your meta, but I would argue yes. Sorin has the potential to get you out of a stalemate, especially versus Abzan. In addition, Hero will close out the game or pressure your opponent, but he can't help you with a bad board state since he has to attack to get benefit.
2) It depends on your hand and board state and who you are playing. If you need tokens, then tokens, if you have some, then anthems. If you expect spells to get countered, you might duplicate what you already have. I generally go for anthem effects, walkers, or my Heroes as first priority (in a vacuum), then token producers. Occasionally, discard.
3) I go for 3 and have had a few times with awkward land plays (turn 3 I need a land and I get Windbrisk). Whatever, you always risk having lands come into play tapped or awkward draws, that is Magic. You also have to judge the deck: if you play aggressively, then you will use them. If you tend to wait and control the board, then less so. The problem with Windbrisk heights is similar to Heroes of Bladehold: you have to attack to use it.
Having said this, there are clear benefits that go beyond simply drawing a card. You get a limited scry and to choose your draw. It also forces your opponent to make some weird choices. Some people were blown out by a Heights before, so they are deathly afraid of letting you attack with 3 creatures. So, they waste removal on a token when they should have waited for the Hero of Bladehold in your hand. They blow up your Heights when the real threat is the sole black mana generating land.
My point is basically what Craig Wescoe has said in a past article: everything on the board is a threat. White weenie strategies work because they play a mind game on the opponent and because they are legitimately threatening. Sometimes, you play a Hero knowing they are going to path it. Why? Because I want them to waste removal on that and not the 2/2 flier that will become a 3/3 when I play my anthem effect and end the game. Sometimes, I play a walker because it distracts them from attacking me for one turn so I can get in for lethal. Windbrisk Heights is a threat. They have no idea what card I will flip and so they try to keep us off of our third attacker when I could just flip a Raise the Alarm.
The problem with Obzedat is that he is just slow and costs 1WWBB - double mana for both colors. While he does snatch some life points (for 2), he can easily be answered in this format unlike during his Standard days. Opponent can still respond on your EOT before you exile him (e.g. Path to Exile) and all you did is waste 5 mana.
Plus, what would you take out from the deck for it? Most likely, he'll take a space from your walkers slot. Also, despite being a 5/5, he has no evasion.
Sometimes people run Blood Baron, I think. Probably better than Obzedat, but still has its issues. Might be better now that we tend to gain a lot of life off Sorin.
In case of testing either the baron or ghost dad, which in the main will you take out in favor of these?