Took this deck to Modern and came in 2nd! ( I went 4-0 before the final match) I drew with my final opponent (my friend), who I had playtested with the night before. He originally ran Jund when playtesting, but after I won the first four games in a row and he won two after that, he switched his deck to Junk, so he had access to Lingering Souls, instead of Anger of the Gods, making the match-up much more even (I still won 2/3). I thank everyone here for their contributions to this thread and giving good ideas!
I feel very confident about this deck and think the only thing I can really do to make it better is modify the sideboard for when the more spikey players come (swapping Kataki for Stony Silence, for a start). Otherwise, I would like to run cards like Hero of Bladehold, but every time she is cast, it seems like she is immediately answered, along with any other non-token creatures I have. So, for now, I am keeping this deck VERY token centered.
EDIT: Do people really prefer to run more removal over just 3 PtE and hand disruption? I almost never needed it, as I play VERY aggressively.
Modern Decks: B/W Tokens, Living End, R/W Lockdown (a.k.a. PillowFort)
Working on:G/W Hatebears, Mono Blue Tron, U/R Delver
Quote from TheDasuri:
First they came for the ghosts of past standards like Jace the Mindsculptor and artifact lands
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a filthy spike
Then they came for the cantrips
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a filthy blue player
Then they came for the Bloodbraid Elves
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a filthy midrange player
Then they came for the Seething Song
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a filthy combo player
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
I'm curious, has Purphoros, God of the Forge been tested in this deck with, at all? You'll never activate as a creature, which is a boon in older formats, indestructible, no one plays Deicide or Revoke Existence in Modern, and it gives the deck some serious reach and speed.
I'm curious, has Purphoros, God of the Forge been tested in this deck with, at all? You'll never activate as a creature, which is a boon in older formats, indestructible, no one plays Deicide or Revoke Existence in Modern, and it gives the deck some serious reach and speed.
This is something I'd be interested in. I'd love to add red and get Young Pyromancer in on this.
Congrats on the good run Dorando! I think a lot of people underestimate this deck; it may not have the percentage points to be 'tier 1', but with some reasonable draws winning FNM's not out of the question at all.
I'm not sure I've got that much more experience with the deck than you, but here are my thoughts:
1) In the board, Rest in Peace is probably better than Grafdigger's Cage (wrecks Tarmogoyf, not that much more expensive, and less of a problem if it's removed), and like you say stony silence hits a wider range of decks than kataki (and is harder to remove). Lastly, your meta may vary but right now you've got literally nothing to hit Tron, so sneaking some ghost quarters in might not be a bad idea (the stony silences will also help).
2) Hero of Bladehold's a bit of a removal beacon, but she's a MASSIVE beating if they can't answer her immediately. If hero swings twice on an empty board, you get in for 18; if you have any anthems (or even just 1 other token) it just kills them. She's also resistant to at least some removal (can take a lightning bolt, can't be abrupt decayed), so the list of immediate answers to her isn't as long as it might first seem. There will be games where you drop hero and she immediately gets Path to Exiled, but there'll also be games where you drop her, they can't kill her right away, and you just win, especially if you can bait out some removal beforehand (which isn't as hard as you'd think with this deck, since many people eventually just assume nothing big is coming and path a token or something).
3) On the planeswalker front, I'd consider switching Elspeth, Knight-Errant for either Sorin, Lord of Innistrad or Elspeth Tirel. I feel like the latter two both have more 'game-changing' abilities the turn they come into play (Sorin's emblem is pretty sweet, and Elspeth coming with three soldiers instead of one is super relevant).
4) As to removal, the main things I find myself really needing to remove are the inevitable Goyfs and combo fodder for Splinter Twin and Birthing Pod, as well as the occasional target in infect or something, but those are situations where when you need removal, you REALLY need removal. I usually just run 4 paths and keep a couple of dismembers in the board.
Also two card choice questions that probably show I don't know enough about the deck:
1) Could you feasibly run Twilight Drover? I'm guessing it is probably just a bit too win more but I figured I'd ask as I've had fun with it elsewhere.
You could certainly give Twilight Drover a try; don't run more than two for starters and don't spend money to get them. What's the worst thing that could happen? He's probably not really good enough but he doesn't seem terrible. Bad? Probably. Terrible? Maybe not.
Triplicate Spirits is unnecessary and also, in my view, very, very bad. You've got the token-makers covered.
In addition to Inquisition, you can try Duress, maybe at least in the side-board. There are cheaper beaters you can try in place of Brimaz, King of Oreskos; Hero of Bladehold has been printed so often it's quite inexpensive indeed and no one can say it's a bad card. You probably should try out a couple copies of something like Hero; you could use a finisher and Hero is a massive finisher.
I'm curious, has Purphoros, God of the Forge been tested in this deck with, at all? You'll never activate as a creature, which is a boon in older formats, indestructible, no one plays Deicide or Revoke Existence in Modern, and it gives the deck some serious reach and speed.
I'm not sure how much super-budget talk is supposed to be in this thread, but at a high level I'd say
1) You can find the event deck online as low as $50 shipped, complete with sleeves. I haven't priced out the deck you listed, but from glancing at TCGPlayer $50 seems hard to beat.
2) I'm really not sold on either of the cards you suggest; they both seem kind of 'win more'. My experience with this deck is your goal is to get ~2-3 tokens and an anthem on the board, force the opponent to deal with them (either inefficiently or by spending a sweeper), and then get ~2-3 more tokens on the board. Drover will either eat targeted removal (which they usually have more of than they have targets for) or get caught up in a sweeper, and Triplicate Spirits only looks good if you're convoking it, which means you're almost always overcommitting when you cast it.
3) One of the strengths of this deck is, to borrow a phrase, being able to run 'the hatiest hate in the format'. If you plan on playing this deck AT ALL competitively, building out a cheap sideboard is a MUST, since you can run cards that just crush lots of decks (Rest in Peace, Stony Silence, Suppression Field) that don't cost much money and don't really hurt you.
You could certainly give Twilight Drover a try; don't run more than two for starters and don't spend money to get them. What's the worst thing that could happen? He's probably not really good enough but he doesn't seem terrible. Bad? Probably. Terrible? Maybe not.
Triplicate Spirits is unnecessary and also, in my view, very, very bad. You've got the token-makers covered.
In addition to Inquisition, you can try Duress, maybe at least in the side-board. There are cheaper beaters you can try in place of Brimaz, King of Oreskos; Hero of Bladehold has been printed so often it's quite inexpensive indeed and no one can say it's a bad card. You probably should try out a couple copies of something like Hero; you could use a finisher and Hero is a massive finisher.
I'm not sure how much super-budget talk is supposed to be in this thread, but at a high level I'd say
1) You can find the event deck online as low as $50 shipped, complete with sleeves. I haven't priced out the deck you listed, but from glancing at TCGPlayer $50 seems hard to beat.
2) I'm really not sold on either of the cards you suggest; they both seem kind of 'win more'. My experience with this deck is your goal is to get ~2-3 tokens and an anthem on the board, force the opponent to deal with them (either inefficiently or by spending a sweeper), and then get ~2-3 more tokens on the board. Drover will either eat targeted removal (which they usually have more of than they have targets for) or get caught up in a sweeper, and Triplicate Spirits only looks good if you're convoking it, which means you're almost always overcommitting when you cast it.
3) One of the strengths of this deck is, to borrow a phrase, being able to run 'the hatiest hate in the format'. If you plan on playing this deck AT ALL competitively, building out a cheap sideboard is a MUST, since you can run cards that just crush lots of decks (Rest in Peace, Stony Silence, Suppression Field) that don't cost much money and don't really hurt you.
Thanks for the thoughts guys, the event deck end up being more expensive than the list I put up given what we already have plus given that cards are, in my experience, slightly more expensive in the UK (where I live). Hero sounds like a solid plan and I have a lot of the sideboard pieces already.
Sorry that I've been cluttering up the thread with my budgety stuff, I just thought I'd ask seeing as there isn't a budget BW Tokens thread anywhere and with the event deck coming out I figure having some budget ideas in here is probably inevitable Anywho, keep up the good work guys
Congrats on the good run Dorando! I think a lot of people underestimate this deck; it may not have the percentage points to be 'tier 1', but with some reasonable draws winning FNM's not out of the question at all.
I'm not sure I've got that much more experience with the deck than you, but here are my thoughts:
1) In the board, Rest in Peace is probably better than Grafdigger's Cage (wrecks Tarmogoyf, not that much more expensive, and less of a problem if it's removed), and like you say stony silence hits a wider range of decks than kataki (and is harder to remove). Lastly, your meta may vary but right now you've got literally nothing to hit Tron, so sneaking some ghost quarters in might not be a bad idea (the stony silences will also help).
2) Hero of Bladehold's a bit of a removal beacon, but she's a MASSIVE beating if they can't answer her immediately. If hero swings twice on an empty board, you get in for 18; if you have any anthems (or even just 1 other token) it just kills them. She's also resistant to at least some removal (can take a lightning bolt, can't be abrupt decayed), so the list of immediate answers to her isn't as long as it might first seem. There will be games where you drop hero and she immediately gets Path to Exiled, but there'll also be games where you drop her, they can't kill her right away, and you just win, especially if you can bait out some removal beforehand (which isn't as hard as you'd think with this deck, since many people eventually just assume nothing big is coming and path a token or something).
3) On the planeswalker front, I'd consider switching Elspeth, Knight-Errant for either Sorin, Lord of Innistrad or Elspeth Tirel. I feel like the latter two both have more 'game-changing' abilities the turn they come into play (Sorin's emblem is pretty sweet, and Elspeth coming with three soldiers instead of one is super relevant).
4) As to removal, the main things I find myself really needing to remove are the inevitable Goyfs and combo fodder for Splinter Twin and Birthing Pod, as well as the occasional target in infect or something, but those are situations where when you need removal, you REALLY need removal. I usually just run 4 paths and keep a couple of dismembers in the board.
Thanks for the input! I will just throw out my impressions here:
1. I run two Ghost Quarter in the maindeck, but it probably is not enough, I will admit. I prefer Grafdigger's, as it shuts Pod down decently, which has been more and more prevalent in my LGS lately. Still, I am definitely going to try it out and might just replace a Relic of Progenitus.
2. I will try her out, since most of my testing was probably pretty lop-sided (only tested against a couple of decks).
3. I actually already have Sorin, Lord of Innistrad, but I always felt like Elspeth just hit harder with her Ultimate, which, admittedly, has only happened once, haha. I think you are right however and if he were to be removed, I could immediately -2 him for another anthem, which is definitely better than a 1/1 Soldier, but he has the downside of his token being black, which makes my Honor of the Pure slightly less effective.
4. I like how we are both on the same page in regards to removal, I will probably throw the fourth PtE in, and rely on the sideboarded dismembers as backup.
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Modern Decks: B/W Tokens, Living End, R/W Lockdown (a.k.a. PillowFort)
Working on:G/W Hatebears, Mono Blue Tron, U/R Delver
Quote from TheDasuri:
First they came for the ghosts of past standards like Jace the Mindsculptor and artifact lands
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a filthy spike
Then they came for the cantrips
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a filthy blue player
Then they came for the Bloodbraid Elves
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a filthy midrange player
Then they came for the Seething Song
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a filthy combo player
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
So I'm looking for a deck to help my girlfriend get started in modern, she's liking the idea of BW Tokens but we don't have the cash to start getting Brimaz and Thoughtsieze. I was considering the event deck and whilst stumbling around online I found this article on Star City Games.
For those of you who don't want to read the whole article here is the recommended alternative (and cheaper) version of the event deck:
I know this deck is missing some good cards but I figured I'd ask the experts (i.e. you guys) what you thought of it as an entry point to the deck? Also are there any other good cheap cards you'd consider?
Also two card choice questions that probably show I don't know enough about the deck:
1) Could you feasibly run Twilight Drover? I'm guessing it is probably just a bit too win more but I figured I'd ask as I've had fun with it elsewhere.
That's a solid article, I slip it in the primer. We should avoid budget discussions as it de-rails the tread, BUT I knew when I wrote the primer, budget would be a constant question as we have plenty of new players thanks to the event deck. Feel free to use this tread to discuss card options, like your question about twilight drover and triplicate spirits (both suffer from being conditional and easily removable, btw, so I wouldn't recommend them), and you can throw a link to a separate thread in the budget forums. Or PM me. I made my first BW token deck by cramming 2 Sorin VS Tibalts together, so I've been there.
I'm about to pick up the event deck for ~$35 after coupons/store credit and had two questions about the cards used in here.
Is Elspeth, Sun's Champion any better/worse than Tirel, Knight-Errant or Sorin? I feel like the +1 of Sun's Champion giving 3 tokens is better, however it is at an extra 1 mana over Knight-Errant. Has anyone playtested that before?
Second, is it better to run Sword to Plowshares in the deck over Path to Exile, or is giving the opponent life too damaging overall for a token deck? (To note, I will note have the money to fill out 4 thoughtsiezes for a little while / get some winnings)
Hello all, i come to learn more of B/W tokens. i have been playing with it since the event deck was released and have been having a lot of fun. Unless you play against storm... The deck isnt easy to play, especially if your new to the format. but it teaches you how to play against the meta well and rewards honest play.
My comments on cards in question... First is brimaz, he has been a rock for me and guided me to quite a few wins against mid range decks. My belief on the kitty king is that if you play swords, he is a must have and will win games by himself. if not go for hero, who is that all too easy untap to win card.
Tidehollow sculler has become the best card in my sideboard against most decks. i usually side in all 3 for game 2 and am able to disrupt and tempo for the win. love this card and im not leaving home without it.
as for planeswalkers, i think knight errant is fine and has a lot of synergy with a turn 3 brimaz or with more tokens then, -5. sorin is also cool but i play 3 honor the pure i think he is a good aggro card though.
Im going to continue testing out all the cards i can, mostly because i love switching it up and trying out brews. the cards i will be trying out in my next few games will be, launch the fleet, this card looks like a blast and a blow out if you have an anthem or 2 out. i think its exactly what hero of bladehold is doing but easier to pull off. combined with brave the elements, i think its will be an awesome way to win. the next one is the card im most excited about, Ghost council of orzhova. not the 5 drop, the old wwbb card from guildpact. i have had trouble against wurmcoil and against good control decks and he is going to be my answer. Obviously he belongs as a 1 or 2 of in the sideboard but i think that sac outlet and blink will be really hard for opponents(who try to win the game through conventional means) to get around.
I'd love to hear how the deck does. How do you think it stacks up? do you have many issues making sure you have the correct mana or any other major issues?
Edit: Speaking in terms of the strickly BW deck, what would be the best way to add some... oomph to the deck? possibly add some Dark Confidant for some extra draw?
Mirran Crusader is purely a local meta call right now and I haven't been disappointed to see him when I draw him. Slaughter Pact has been great against Twin, Affinity and it catches a lot of people off guard. Ghost Quarter is FANTASTIC and I wish I was running it earlier. Helps against Tron, Scapeshift, Affinity, UWR control and any deck that utilizes manlands or relies heavily on filter lands such as The Rock. Surgical Extraction is fantastic against combo, especially Storm, Scapeshift and Twin.
Split for 1st tonight with this current list.
Round 1 UWR Control 2-0
Game one was a beatdown for the most part. He Supreme Verdict pretty early buy I recovered with a Brimaz and Hero of the Bladehold. Game two I sided in Rest in Peace which slowed him down a ton. It was grindy but I pulled out the win. Ghost Quarter was huge for me by getting rid of Celestial Colonnade.
Round 2 Goblins 2-0
Game one was easy. He dropped a Blood Moon but I had a some of basics out so it wasn't an issue and I was able to get around that and beat him over the top with spirits. Game two I sided in BFT and Auriok Champion and the the Champion won me the second game with life gain.
Game 3 Scapeshift 2-0
My plan to add in Ghost Quarter here paid off huge here. Getting rid of Valakut both games really hurt his gameplan and I just swarmed the board to the point he couldn't do anything. Game 2 I Thoughtseized his Anger of the Gods turn 1 and there was no looking back. Surgical Extraction is huge in this match up if you can GQ their Valakut.
Game 4 Affinity SPLIT
I've won this match up time after time and I feel like this is one of our best match ups. We did the gentlemanly thing and split for first.
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Modern
Bogles / BW Tokens / Skred Red Legacy
Burn Pauper
Songs of the Damned / Elves Commander
Lin Sivvi
I'm curious, has Purphoros, God of the Forge been tested in this deck with, at all? You'll never activate as a creature, which is a boon in older formats, indestructible, no one plays Deicide or Revoke Existence in Modern, and it gives the deck some serious reach and speed.
This is something I'd be interested in. I'd love to add red and get Young Pyromancer in on this.
If you are interested, I'll go a bit deeper into the card choices.
Purphoros is quite strong. He doesn't have board impact, but is nearly unremovable and generates 4 to 8 damage from every token spell.
He's also really busted with Pyromancer. And he's a good mana sink because otherwise this deck gets pretty flooded in the late game.
This isn't quite what I had in mind, but it looks good nonetheless. Could you expand on card choices and why the dump of Hero? It looks like you've sacrificed quite a bit from combo match ups for aggressive play. Could you tell us how it plays versus the traditional builds?
I see that a lot of you don't run Leyline of Sanctity in your sideboards, is this because of budget concerns or is it not needed?
Probably both reasons depending on local meta. For me, I run Aegis of the Gods if I need the effect because I can't afford Leyline of Sanctity, however much of the time I don't need either one in side. My meta doesn't have much discard and there are better options vs. burn or storm. Main thing maybe it'd be okay for (in my meta) is stopping Mindslaver lock, but I'm not sure it'd be worth it just for that.
I'd love to hear how the deck does. How do you think it stacks up? do you have many issues making sure you have the correct mana or any other major issues?
Edit: Speaking in terms of the strickly BW deck, what would be the best way to add some... oomph to the deck? possibly add some Dark Confidant for some extra draw?
I know what you mean about "oomph". Sometimes, I feel like I just barely manage a win, and i think that is a side effect of depending on anthems. There's not much we can do about that, unfortunately. If you haven't already, check out Modern Deadguy Ale, it's BW, recently added to the "established" thread, and more midrange (where tokens is closer to control). It uses more creatures, and Bob for card draw.
Is Elspeth, Sun's Champion any better/worse than Tirel, Knight-Errant or Sorin? I feel like the +1 of Sun's Champion giving 3 tokens is better, however it is at an extra 1 mana over Knight-Errant. Has anyone playtested that before?
Second, is it better to run Sword to Plowshares in the deck over Path to Exile,
Elspeth Tirel is the generally considered the best choice for BW tokens. Elspeth, Knight-Errant is used more widely and is correspondingly more expensive ($$$), Sorin, Lord of Innistrad is more of a budget choice for BW tokens. Elspeth, Sun's Champion is pretty strictly a standard card, not played in Modern at all as far as I know.
Swords to Plowshares is probably better but not modern-legal as has been mentioned. If you're playing casually or in Legacy, then Swords are still a thing.
I see that a lot of you don't run Leyline of Sanctity in your sideboards, is this because of budget concerns or is it not needed?
I have found it to be not as necessary as I originally thought in the deck. I prefer Burrenton Forge-Tender and Auriok Champion in the board for burn and to help with red sweepers. Sure, it doesn't stop Valakut or Liliana but I haven't found either to be much of an issue.
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Modern
Bogles / BW Tokens / Skred Red Legacy
Burn Pauper
Songs of the Damned / Elves Commander
Lin Sivvi
Edit: Speaking in terms of the strickly BW deck, what would be the best way to add some... oomph to the deck? possibly add some Dark Confidant for some extra draw?
The big problem with running Bob is that Spectral Procession is technically a 6 cmc spell, which is too much to risk taking in the face from your own card. If you could figure out a build without Procession I could see a place for Bob maybe.
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Decks
EDH: Nekusar Hates You UBR
Keranos, God of Storm Count UR
Modern: B/W Tokens BW
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4x Marsh Flats
2x Godless Shrine
2x Ghost Quarter
4x Isolated Chapel
4x Plains
3x Swamp
1x Vault of the Archangel
4x Windbrisk Heights
Creature (5)
2x Soul Warden
3x Tidehollow Sculler
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Sorcery (14)
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lingering Souls
4x Spectral Procession
4x Thoughtseize
Instant (10)
3x Path to Exile
4x Raise the Alarm
3x Zealous Persecution
Enchantment (6)
2x Honor of the Pure
4x Intangible Virtue
2x Grafdigger's Cage
3x Relic of Progenitus
2x Burrenton Forge-Tender
2x Kataki, War's Wage
2x Spellskite
2x Dismember
2x Timely Reinforcements
Took this deck to Modern and came in 2nd! ( I went 4-0 before the final match) I drew with my final opponent (my friend), who I had playtested with the night before. He originally ran Jund when playtesting, but after I won the first four games in a row and he won two after that, he switched his deck to Junk, so he had access to Lingering Souls, instead of Anger of the Gods, making the match-up much more even (I still won 2/3). I thank everyone here for their contributions to this thread and giving good ideas!
I feel very confident about this deck and think the only thing I can really do to make it better is modify the sideboard for when the more spikey players come (swapping Kataki for Stony Silence, for a start). Otherwise, I would like to run cards like Hero of Bladehold, but every time she is cast, it seems like she is immediately answered, along with any other non-token creatures I have. So, for now, I am keeping this deck VERY token centered.
EDIT: Do people really prefer to run more removal over just 3 PtE and hand disruption? I almost never needed it, as I play VERY aggressively.
Working on:G/W Hatebears, Mono Blue Tron, U/R Delver
Quote from TheDasuri:
First they came for the ghosts of past standards like Jace the Mindsculptor and artifact lands
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a filthy spike
Then they came for the cantrips
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a filthy blue player
Then they came for the Bloodbraid Elves
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a filthy midrange player
Then they came for the Seething Song
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a filthy combo player
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
This is something I'd be interested in. I'd love to add red and get Young Pyromancer in on this.
I'm not sure I've got that much more experience with the deck than you, but here are my thoughts:
1) In the board, Rest in Peace is probably better than Grafdigger's Cage (wrecks Tarmogoyf, not that much more expensive, and less of a problem if it's removed), and like you say stony silence hits a wider range of decks than kataki (and is harder to remove). Lastly, your meta may vary but right now you've got literally nothing to hit Tron, so sneaking some ghost quarters in might not be a bad idea (the stony silences will also help).
2) Hero of Bladehold's a bit of a removal beacon, but she's a MASSIVE beating if they can't answer her immediately. If hero swings twice on an empty board, you get in for 18; if you have any anthems (or even just 1 other token) it just kills them. She's also resistant to at least some removal (can take a lightning bolt, can't be abrupt decayed), so the list of immediate answers to her isn't as long as it might first seem. There will be games where you drop hero and she immediately gets Path to Exiled, but there'll also be games where you drop her, they can't kill her right away, and you just win, especially if you can bait out some removal beforehand (which isn't as hard as you'd think with this deck, since many people eventually just assume nothing big is coming and path a token or something).
3) On the planeswalker front, I'd consider switching Elspeth, Knight-Errant for either Sorin, Lord of Innistrad or Elspeth Tirel. I feel like the latter two both have more 'game-changing' abilities the turn they come into play (Sorin's emblem is pretty sweet, and Elspeth coming with three soldiers instead of one is super relevant).
4) As to removal, the main things I find myself really needing to remove are the inevitable Goyfs and combo fodder for Splinter Twin and Birthing Pod, as well as the occasional target in infect or something, but those are situations where when you need removal, you REALLY need removal. I usually just run 4 paths and keep a couple of dismembers in the board.
You could certainly give Twilight Drover a try; don't run more than two for starters and don't spend money to get them. What's the worst thing that could happen? He's probably not really good enough but he doesn't seem terrible. Bad? Probably. Terrible? Maybe not.
Triplicate Spirits is unnecessary and also, in my view, very, very bad. You've got the token-makers covered.
In addition to Inquisition, you can try Duress, maybe at least in the side-board. There are cheaper beaters you can try in place of Brimaz, King of Oreskos; Hero of Bladehold has been printed so often it's quite inexpensive indeed and no one can say it's a bad card. You probably should try out a couple copies of something like Hero; you could use a finisher and Hero is a massive finisher.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
One does occasionally see Deglamer.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
1) You can find the event deck online as low as $50 shipped, complete with sleeves. I haven't priced out the deck you listed, but from glancing at TCGPlayer $50 seems hard to beat.
2) I'm really not sold on either of the cards you suggest; they both seem kind of 'win more'. My experience with this deck is your goal is to get ~2-3 tokens and an anthem on the board, force the opponent to deal with them (either inefficiently or by spending a sweeper), and then get ~2-3 more tokens on the board. Drover will either eat targeted removal (which they usually have more of than they have targets for) or get caught up in a sweeper, and Triplicate Spirits only looks good if you're convoking it, which means you're almost always overcommitting when you cast it.
3) One of the strengths of this deck is, to borrow a phrase, being able to run 'the hatiest hate in the format'. If you plan on playing this deck AT ALL competitively, building out a cheap sideboard is a MUST, since you can run cards that just crush lots of decks (Rest in Peace, Stony Silence, Suppression Field) that don't cost much money and don't really hurt you.
Thanks for the thoughts guys, the event deck end up being more expensive than the list I put up given what we already have plus given that cards are, in my experience, slightly more expensive in the UK (where I live). Hero sounds like a solid plan and I have a lot of the sideboard pieces already.
Sorry that I've been cluttering up the thread with my budgety stuff, I just thought I'd ask seeing as there isn't a budget BW Tokens thread anywhere and with the event deck coming out I figure having some budget ideas in here is probably inevitable Anywho, keep up the good work guys
Thanks for the input! I will just throw out my impressions here:
1. I run two Ghost Quarter in the maindeck, but it probably is not enough, I will admit. I prefer Grafdigger's, as it shuts Pod down decently, which has been more and more prevalent in my LGS lately. Still, I am definitely going to try it out and might just replace a Relic of Progenitus.
2. I will try her out, since most of my testing was probably pretty lop-sided (only tested against a couple of decks).
3. I actually already have Sorin, Lord of Innistrad, but I always felt like Elspeth just hit harder with her Ultimate, which, admittedly, has only happened once, haha. I think you are right however and if he were to be removed, I could immediately -2 him for another anthem, which is definitely better than a 1/1 Soldier, but he has the downside of his token being black, which makes my Honor of the Pure slightly less effective.
4. I like how we are both on the same page in regards to removal, I will probably throw the fourth PtE in, and rely on the sideboarded dismembers as backup.
Working on:G/W Hatebears, Mono Blue Tron, U/R Delver
Quote from TheDasuri:
First they came for the ghosts of past standards like Jace the Mindsculptor and artifact lands
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a filthy spike
Then they came for the cantrips
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a filthy blue player
Then they came for the Bloodbraid Elves
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a filthy midrange player
Then they came for the Seething Song
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a filthy combo player
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
That's a solid article, I slip it in the primer. We should avoid budget discussions as it de-rails the tread, BUT I knew when I wrote the primer, budget would be a constant question as we have plenty of new players thanks to the event deck. Feel free to use this tread to discuss card options, like your question about twilight drover and triplicate spirits (both suffer from being conditional and easily removable, btw, so I wouldn't recommend them), and you can throw a link to a separate thread in the budget forums. Or PM me. I made my first BW token deck by cramming 2 Sorin VS Tibalts together, so I've been there.
Is Elspeth, Sun's Champion any better/worse than Tirel, Knight-Errant or Sorin? I feel like the +1 of Sun's Champion giving 3 tokens is better, however it is at an extra 1 mana over Knight-Errant. Has anyone playtested that before?
Second, is it better to run Sword to Plowshares in the deck over Path to Exile, or is giving the opponent life too damaging overall for a token deck? (To note, I will note have the money to fill out 4 thoughtsiezes for a little while / get some winnings)
My comments on cards in question... First is brimaz, he has been a rock for me and guided me to quite a few wins against mid range decks. My belief on the kitty king is that if you play swords, he is a must have and will win games by himself. if not go for hero, who is that all too easy untap to win card.
Tidehollow sculler has become the best card in my sideboard against most decks. i usually side in all 3 for game 2 and am able to disrupt and tempo for the win. love this card and im not leaving home without it.
as for planeswalkers, i think knight errant is fine and has a lot of synergy with a turn 3 brimaz or with more tokens then, -5. sorin is also cool but i play 3 honor the pure i think he is a good aggro card though.
Im going to continue testing out all the cards i can, mostly because i love switching it up and trying out brews. the cards i will be trying out in my next few games will be, launch the fleet, this card looks like a blast and a blow out if you have an anthem or 2 out. i think its exactly what hero of bladehold is doing but easier to pull off. combined with brave the elements, i think its will be an awesome way to win. the next one is the card im most excited about, Ghost council of orzhova. not the 5 drop, the old wwbb card from guildpact. i have had trouble against wurmcoil and against good control decks and he is going to be my answer. Obviously he belongs as a 1 or 2 of in the sideboard but i think that sac outlet and blink will be really hard for opponents(who try to win the game through conventional means) to get around.
Edit: Speaking in terms of the strickly BW deck, what would be the best way to add some... oomph to the deck? possibly add some Dark Confidant for some extra draw?
4 Marsh Flats
4 Godless Shrine
2 Isolated Chapel
2 Fetid Heath
2 Windbrisk Heights
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Vault of the Archangel
4 Plains
2 Swamp
Creatures
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2 Hero of Bladehold
2 Mirran Crusader
4 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Path To Exile
3 Raise the Alarm
2 Zealous Persecution
3 Honor of the Pure
2 Intangible Virtue
4 Lingering Souls
4 Spectral Procession
2 Slaughter Pact
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
3 Auriok Champion
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Torpor Orb
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Surgical Extraction
Took out 2nElspeth, Knight Errant, 1 Intangible Virtue, 1 Zealous Persecution, 1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos, 1 Swamp.
Added 2 Mirran Crusader, 2 Ghost Quarter and 2 Slaugter Pact.
Also swapped Mortify for Surgical Extraction in the side.
Mirran Crusader is purely a local meta call right now and I haven't been disappointed to see him when I draw him. Slaughter Pact has been great against Twin, Affinity and it catches a lot of people off guard. Ghost Quarter is FANTASTIC and I wish I was running it earlier. Helps against Tron, Scapeshift, Affinity, UWR control and any deck that utilizes manlands or relies heavily on filter lands such as The Rock. Surgical Extraction is fantastic against combo, especially Storm, Scapeshift and Twin.
Split for 1st tonight with this current list.
Round 1 UWR Control 2-0
Game one was a beatdown for the most part. He Supreme Verdict pretty early buy I recovered with a Brimaz and Hero of the Bladehold. Game two I sided in Rest in Peace which slowed him down a ton. It was grindy but I pulled out the win. Ghost Quarter was huge for me by getting rid of Celestial Colonnade.
Round 2 Goblins 2-0
Game one was easy. He dropped a Blood Moon but I had a some of basics out so it wasn't an issue and I was able to get around that and beat him over the top with spirits. Game two I sided in BFT and Auriok Champion and the the Champion won me the second game with life gain.
Game 3 Scapeshift 2-0
My plan to add in Ghost Quarter here paid off huge here. Getting rid of Valakut both games really hurt his gameplan and I just swarmed the board to the point he couldn't do anything. Game 2 I Thoughtseized his Anger of the Gods turn 1 and there was no looking back. Surgical Extraction is huge in this match up if you can GQ their Valakut.
Game 4 Affinity SPLIT
I've won this match up time after time and I feel like this is one of our best match ups. We did the gentlemanly thing and split for first.
Bogles / BW Tokens / Skred Red
Legacy
Burn
Pauper
Songs of the Damned / Elves
Commander
Lin Sivvi
This isn't quite what I had in mind, but it looks good nonetheless. Could you expand on card choices and why the dump of Hero? It looks like you've sacrificed quite a bit from combo match ups for aggressive play. Could you tell us how it plays versus the traditional builds?
Probably both reasons depending on local meta. For me, I run Aegis of the Gods if I need the effect because I can't afford Leyline of Sanctity, however much of the time I don't need either one in side. My meta doesn't have much discard and there are better options vs. burn or storm. Main thing maybe it'd be okay for (in my meta) is stopping Mindslaver lock, but I'm not sure it'd be worth it just for that.
I know what you mean about "oomph". Sometimes, I feel like I just barely manage a win, and i think that is a side effect of depending on anthems. There's not much we can do about that, unfortunately. If you haven't already, check out Modern Deadguy Ale, it's BW, recently added to the "established" thread, and more midrange (where tokens is closer to control). It uses more creatures, and Bob for card draw.
Elspeth Tirel is the generally considered the best choice for BW tokens. Elspeth, Knight-Errant is used more widely and is correspondingly more expensive ($$$), Sorin, Lord of Innistrad is more of a budget choice for BW tokens. Elspeth, Sun's Champion is pretty strictly a standard card, not played in Modern at all as far as I know.
Swords to Plowshares is probably better but not modern-legal as has been mentioned. If you're playing casually or in Legacy, then Swords are still a thing.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
I have found it to be not as necessary as I originally thought in the deck. I prefer Burrenton Forge-Tender and Auriok Champion in the board for burn and to help with red sweepers. Sure, it doesn't stop Valakut or Liliana but I haven't found either to be much of an issue.
Bogles / BW Tokens / Skred Red
Legacy
Burn
Pauper
Songs of the Damned / Elves
Commander
Lin Sivvi
The big problem with running Bob is that Spectral Procession is technically a 6 cmc spell, which is too much to risk taking in the face from your own card. If you could figure out a build without Procession I could see a place for Bob maybe.
EDH: Nekusar Hates You UBR
Keranos, God of Storm Count UR
Modern: B/W Tokens BW