Vial actually does help that explosiveness, while helping to negate the sometimes too frequent mana screw. Think of it this way, t1 vial, or t1 guide. If all is ideal, lets just say t1 vial, t2 three guides. Or t1 guide, t2 guide guide. in one, you've gotten an extra 2 points, in the other, you are far more stable. If you dont hit a mana, its probably not going to matter anyways. I also run devil and tatturmunge maniac in my 1 drop slot, so, vial or not, theres always pressure.
Not to burst everybody's bubble or simply sound like I'm full of myself, but why is vial even in the discussion? The only results put up for the deck (with vial or black) weren't good results and they were in a competitive environment, and everybody seems to be fixated on the black splash, or just straight mono red (which are playable, but miss the key card, Path to Exile). Thus far the only results posted for goblins were with a white splash and its not even in the discussion! For reference here are the lists I used in a couple ptqs last season, the first got me to top 8, the second into top 4, both were roughly 100 person tournaments:
Since then, I have left my Mainboard the same and adjusted the SB to this:
2 Disenchant
3 Pillar of Flame
4 Shattering Spree
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Vexing Shusher
The 15th card varies between Kor Firewalker and another Shusher, I'm still at odds as to which I prefer.
Finally the black splash is definitely playable, Earwig Squad is the real deal as landing it prowled against Tron it simply will remove their entire win con, and against splinter twin or storm or pyromancers you can remove 3/4 of their win cons, not to mention against other decks you simply get rid of finks and have something to combat gofys. There are a few other playable black goblins as well, and you get a much more life friendly manabase so its do-able, but please lets eliminate vial and mono red for that matter from the discussion and lets make some real progress here.
Earwig should never be counted as a 5 drop, as it is significantly worse when you are hard casting it, or cheating it into play via warren instigator. Essentially it wants to be a 3 drop (prowl cost) that nets you a 5/3 which is pretty big in itself with the added exile effect on top of it. If you want to go the seige gang commander route, then don't have it compete for a top end spot with earwig because they fill entirely different roles and should 100% of the time not have the same cost paid to put them into play.
Personally I prefer the white splash because Path to Exile stops so many annoying things like Goyfs and Finks dead in their tracks. However, quickly browsing through a black splash list here is what I came up with:
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Earwig Squad
2 Pillar of Flame
4 Shattering Spree
3 Thoughtseize
3 Vexing Shusher
Basic idea is that goblin in modern is more of a sligh deck if that wasn't obvious by the lists I posted. The benefit to black aside from Earwig Squad is namely hand disruption out of the sideboard, some graveyard hate that doesn't hurt the manabase, and much better quality creatures since there are actually other playable black goblins. Knucklebone witch is an amazing creature since we have mogg fanatic to chuck at will, and mogg war marshal dies on his own, and grenade pitches another goblin for you as well. He will easily be a 3/3 or 4/4 for one quickly if not answered. Auntie is mainboard as a one of in place of a third earwig simply because she will win you the game is left sitting around because you can just swarm the board over and over, but being a costly 4 drop for this kind of deck relegates her to a one of.The pillars need to be mainboard now because Kitchen Finks will ruin us if it ends up trading with 2 creatures and gaining them 4 life. So what it comes down to really for personal preference is if the slightly higher creature quality outweighs having higher spell quality.
I've been seeing a lot of shusher lately. Doesnt cavern take that spot pretty well without using the sideboard. Atleast In everything but james w/r list since it was "fairly" spell heavy
It may be in many decks. In mine though (as an example) I can't really use it due to Blood Moon. However, were I to drop the moon, it'd be an insta add,. but for now, the shusher rules supreme for me :P.
Blood moon is funny, but I wouldn't play that card mb because having a 3 mana dead enchantment against certain decks seems really poor. I mean, I was running 2 magus of the moon mb for a long time, but now a lot of the meta seems to be moving towards W(x) tokens, UW control, mono U fae and G(r) tron. All of these are decks best beat with more gas and less do nothing cards. Sure you get the chance to lock them out once in a while, but after they fetch a basic or two, or even if they start with a basic, it just seems detrimental to topdeck this enchantment.
Edit: oh and has anyone been seeing the geist bant deck? Turn 2 geist followed by turn 3 elspeth is not uncommon and REALLY wreaks us. I mean the only out I'm running to geist (besides blockers) is V.fallout is the sb, but playing it on turn 3 seems like it will hurt us more than them (they lose geist +dork and we lose our first 2 turn as well meaning no grenade ammo or early pressure).
Bant seems to be the future of our frustration. especially because of how many frustrating creatures they run(KoTR, finx, and rhox warmonk all in addition to geist)
Shattering Spree Mogg Fanatic Spikeshot Elder Bolt Helix and Grenade if necessary all shut down affinity quite nicely. As for the discussion on Cavern of souls I have tried it over and over and it simply doesn't fit unless its a 1 of in place of mutavault in my list. The reason being is that it only makes colors for creatures, and all of our spells are red intensive as well so it can't cast bolt, path, helix or grenade, all of which are vital spells. Being a very many light deck the 2-3 lands we play each game all need to be able to multi task, so aside from mutavault (or 1 cavern) everything needs to be able to cast creatures or spells.
Blood Moon simply is a dead card mainboard and I would honestly say go with Magus of the Moon in place of it in the sideboard because at least he can farther your goal or knocking health totals to 0. I actually tried using Volcanic Fallout in the sideboard and just came to the conclusion that if I truly needed to hold off geist than thalia does a fine job as well. She's hard to remove has great combat favorability and adds to your already fast clock.
Bloodmark mentor is a decent creature, but he's sideboard at best because so many decks don't use a plethora of creatures the 2 drop slot is best used by something that adds more overall damage. Red Sun's zenith is simply outclassed by pillar of flame because you would need to dump 3 mana into it for the same effect (or just use 1 mana for a path).
Goblin Grenade is a 4 of in this deck, period. Stop making goblin lists that don't include it, our creature base is not nearly as solid as legacy goblins so you can't cut it for anything, ever.
Mogg Fanatic seems weak now that damage doesn't go on the stack I know, but trust me, he will pump out 3-4 damage and kill a creature or block one creature and kill another every single game. In the aggro matchup hes an MVP and against control he's annoying and sticks around because nobody wants to waste removal on him. Start including him in your lists.
Krenko and Seige Gang both fufill the same purpose of swarming the board, but seige gang does it quicker, even if coming down a turn later due to being hard cast for some reason. Krenko may be better in legacy (not sure haven't been able to test legacy lately with GP Columbus coming up) but if you are playing modern then Seige Gang is the way to go.
Forgive me if this has already been posted, but Goblins in Legacy have been splashing White just for Thalia. She solves the Goblins' worst enemy: Combo. 4x Thalia main along with Thorn of Amethysts in your Sideboard will turn a dreadful matchup into quite a winnable matchup.
Shouldn't goblin grenade make the w/b tokens match up easier?
How has the Jund match up been? Other than Soul Sisters variants, that has been the worst deck for me to go up against. Post board they usually side in life-gaining creatures and a card like Jund Charm can wipe out our entire side right before an attack.
The problem I've had with soul sisters, is the early life gain. The turn 1-2 Martyr that Just makes the game take FOREVER, and in the long run, rain of gore or not, they win. 6/6 flyer that says they lose 6 life if it hits us? great, but they start at 40-50 and we start at >20(fetches presumably)
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When does lightning bolt kill Emrakul? When your opponent's at three.
I've really liked vexing devil in combination with bushwacker. Often times t3 you play devil, they let him resolve, you throw down your mana and bushwack. People dont expect a 5/4 with haste
I've really liked vexing devil in combination with bushwacker. Often times t3 you play devil, they let him resolve, you throw down your mana and bushwack. People dont expect a 5/4 with haste
this why i play Devastating Summons. I know its very all in, but with bushwacker it makes a very good turn 3 win con.
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When does lightning bolt kill Emrakul? When your opponent's at three.
I'm assuming pillar of flame is superior to magma spray due to the ability to target players. However, i think the card is mainly there to deal with finks... how does the instant speed match up?
but getting back to an earlier point... geist bant? Geist came out and owned my face. I was able to forestall the ineveitable by hanging back a bit, but i don't think that's where we want to be. Do you just burn through it and let geist do his thing?
you can't hold back enough guys to gang block it? geist himself is really easy to deal with unless they stick evasion or protection on him. If that's the case, it's a race.
you can't hold back enough guys to gang block it? geist himself is really easy to deal with unless they stick evasion or protection on him. If that's the case, it's a race.
The problem I have is turn 2 geist, followed by turn 3 elspeth. Off a noble hierarch they can jump the geist for 10 damage in the air, and it's REALLY hard to race that because it still leaves the hierarch to block in case we have any real threatening board.
And this might seem like the nuts, but it's very common to have geist followed up by refiq or elspeth. And sense they can sb in Rhox War Monk it gets even more annoying.
Also I've seen a few mini ajani's, who are also hilarious with gesit. Just the fact that they have 3 ways to jump geist is very annoying and near unracable.
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When does lightning bolt kill Emrakul? When your opponent's at three.
Since then, I have left my Mainboard the same and adjusted the SB to this:
2 Disenchant
3 Pillar of Flame
4 Shattering Spree
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Vexing Shusher
The 15th card varies between Kor Firewalker and another Shusher, I'm still at odds as to which I prefer.
Finally the black splash is definitely playable, Earwig Squad is the real deal as landing it prowled against Tron it simply will remove their entire win con, and against splinter twin or storm or pyromancers you can remove 3/4 of their win cons, not to mention against other decks you simply get rid of finks and have something to combat gofys. There are a few other playable black goblins as well, and you get a much more life friendly manabase so its do-able, but please lets eliminate vial and mono red for that matter from the discussion and lets make some real progress here.
I will be using this list the next saturday but I was thinking about taking out 4 Keldon Marauders and replace them with 2 Vexing Devil and 2 Thunderous Wrath. What do you think about this. I was testing this a little bit and vexin just works fine on turn 3 with bushwacker. And wrath is amazing if its not in your initial hand.
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Allentown 3/17
2 Goblin Arsonist
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
2 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Guide
2 Keldon Marauders
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Mogg War Marshal
1 Spikeshot Elder
4 Arid Mesa
4 Mountain
1 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Teetering Peaks
4 Goblin Grenade
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
2 Magma Jet
4 Path to Exile
SB
2 Blood Moon
4 Combust
2 Disenchant
2 Mindbreak Trap
3 Shattering Spree
2 Vexing Shusher
Rockville 3/31
2 Goblin Arsonist
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
2 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Guide
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Mogg War Marshal
1 Spikeshot Elder
4 Arid Mesa
4 Mountain
1 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Teetering Peaks
4 Goblin Grenade
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
SB
4 Combust
2 Disenchant
4 Shattering Spree
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Vexing Shusher
1 Volcanic Fallout
Since then, I have left my Mainboard the same and adjusted the SB to this:
2 Disenchant
3 Pillar of Flame
4 Shattering Spree
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Vexing Shusher
The 15th card varies between Kor Firewalker and another Shusher, I'm still at odds as to which I prefer.
Finally the black splash is definitely playable, Earwig Squad is the real deal as landing it prowled against Tron it simply will remove their entire win con, and against splinter twin or storm or pyromancers you can remove 3/4 of their win cons, not to mention against other decks you simply get rid of finks and have something to combat gofys. There are a few other playable black goblins as well, and you get a much more life friendly manabase so its do-able, but please lets eliminate vial and mono red for that matter from the discussion and lets make some real progress here.
Mainboard:
2 Earwig Squad
2 Goblin Arsonist
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
2 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Guide
4 Knucklebone Witch
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Mogg War Marshal
1 Wort, Boggart Auntie
4 Goblin Grenade
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Pillar of Flame
3 Smother
4 Arid Mesa
4 Auntie's Hovel
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Blood Crypt
4 Mountain
1 Mutavault
Sideboard:
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Earwig Squad
2 Pillar of Flame
4 Shattering Spree
3 Thoughtseize
3 Vexing Shusher
Basic idea is that goblin in modern is more of a sligh deck if that wasn't obvious by the lists I posted. The benefit to black aside from Earwig Squad is namely hand disruption out of the sideboard, some graveyard hate that doesn't hurt the manabase, and much better quality creatures since there are actually other playable black goblins. Knucklebone witch is an amazing creature since we have mogg fanatic to chuck at will, and mogg war marshal dies on his own, and grenade pitches another goblin for you as well. He will easily be a 3/3 or 4/4 for one quickly if not answered. Auntie is mainboard as a one of in place of a third earwig simply because she will win you the game is left sitting around because you can just swarm the board over and over, but being a costly 4 drop for this kind of deck relegates her to a one of.The pillars need to be mainboard now because Kitchen Finks will ruin us if it ends up trading with 2 creatures and gaining them 4 life. So what it comes down to really for personal preference is if the slightly higher creature quality outweighs having higher spell quality.
Blood moon is funny, but I wouldn't play that card mb because having a 3 mana dead enchantment against certain decks seems really poor. I mean, I was running 2 magus of the moon mb for a long time, but now a lot of the meta seems to be moving towards W(x) tokens, UW control, mono U fae and G(r) tron. All of these are decks best beat with more gas and less do nothing cards. Sure you get the chance to lock them out once in a while, but after they fetch a basic or two, or even if they start with a basic, it just seems detrimental to topdeck this enchantment.
Edit: oh and has anyone been seeing the geist bant deck? Turn 2 geist followed by turn 3 elspeth is not uncommon and REALLY wreaks us. I mean the only out I'm running to geist (besides blockers) is V.fallout is the sb, but playing it on turn 3 seems like it will hurt us more than them (they lose geist +dork and we lose our first 2 turn as well meaning no grenade ammo or early pressure).
Bant seems to be the future of our frustration. especially because of how many frustrating creatures they run(KoTR, finx, and rhox warmonk all in addition to geist)
Blood Moon simply is a dead card mainboard and I would honestly say go with Magus of the Moon in place of it in the sideboard because at least he can farther your goal or knocking health totals to 0. I actually tried using Volcanic Fallout in the sideboard and just came to the conclusion that if I truly needed to hold off geist than thalia does a fine job as well. She's hard to remove has great combat favorability and adds to your already fast clock.
Bloodmark mentor is a decent creature, but he's sideboard at best because so many decks don't use a plethora of creatures the 2 drop slot is best used by something that adds more overall damage. Red Sun's zenith is simply outclassed by pillar of flame because you would need to dump 3 mana into it for the same effect (or just use 1 mana for a path).
Goblin Grenade is a 4 of in this deck, period. Stop making goblin lists that don't include it, our creature base is not nearly as solid as legacy goblins so you can't cut it for anything, ever.
Mogg Fanatic seems weak now that damage doesn't go on the stack I know, but trust me, he will pump out 3-4 damage and kill a creature or block one creature and kill another every single game. In the aggro matchup hes an MVP and against control he's annoying and sticks around because nobody wants to waste removal on him. Start including him in your lists.
Krenko and Seige Gang both fufill the same purpose of swarming the board, but seige gang does it quicker, even if coming down a turn later due to being hard cast for some reason. Krenko may be better in legacy (not sure haven't been able to test legacy lately with GP Columbus coming up) but if you are playing modern then Seige Gang is the way to go.
Currently playing:
UW Modern Tron WU
UR Modern Storm RU
UW [CARD]Rasputin Dreamweaver
[/CARD] UW
How has the Jund match up been? Other than Soul Sisters variants, that has been the worst deck for me to go up against. Post board they usually side in life-gaining creatures and a card like Jund Charm can wipe out our entire side right before an attack.
this why i play Devastating Summons. I know its very all in, but with bushwacker it makes a very good turn 3 win con.
but getting back to an earlier point... geist bant? Geist came out and owned my face. I was able to forestall the ineveitable by hanging back a bit, but i don't think that's where we want to be. Do you just burn through it and let geist do his thing?
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
The problem I have is turn 2 geist, followed by turn 3 elspeth. Off a noble hierarch they can jump the geist for 10 damage in the air, and it's REALLY hard to race that because it still leaves the hierarch to block in case we have any real threatening board.
And this might seem like the nuts, but it's very common to have geist followed up by refiq or elspeth. And sense they can sb in Rhox War Monk it gets even more annoying.
Also I've seen a few mini ajani's, who are also hilarious with gesit. Just the fact that they have 3 ways to jump geist is very annoying and near unracable.
Boring...
Modern
WGBJunk:Feel the Rhinos WGB
RWUAmerican Taxes RWU
EDH
XKarn and the Living StaxX RETIRED
GWURoon of The Hidden RealmGWU
I will be using this list the next saturday but I was thinking about taking out 4 Keldon Marauders and replace them with 2 Vexing Devil and 2 Thunderous Wrath. What do you think about this. I was testing this a little bit and vexin just works fine on turn 3 with bushwacker. And wrath is amazing if its not in your initial hand.