regarding combo decks, black has all the discard power available to sideboard if needed, plus cards like surgical extraction and sadistic sacrament, which happens to be very good against 12 post as well.
i like graveborn muse but undead warchief is already a staple in the 4 drop slot. i would go with phyrexian arena instead.
as for what glissa would be replacing, i think she should replace lord of the undead instead of death baron or a mix of the 2. zombies may have a lot of lords but they can still be easily outsized by a tarmogoyf or merfolk/elf decks which have just as many lords. deathtouch becomes important in those match ups. cemetery reaper also already interacts with creatures in the graveyeard, and between him and lord of the undead, i'm leaning more towards reaper.
I think every Zombie list should also run 4 Korlash, Heir to Blackblade because it's just a sick amount of deck thinning if you can get them a couple in hand. Get this -- He lets you tutor up Ravnica shocks! I like I like. As well as it being repeatable with Lord of the Undead, I think it could be a pretty cool way to get psuedo CA in mono black.
EDIT: I'll make a BG list later.
The one thing I really don't like is all the double-black in a lot of the costs, which makes it really hard to add Ghost Quarters in. Might need to be a SB option, honestly...
Haven't really been keeping track of the thread since I started it due to the first couple of responses and the Innistrad previews, but I'm glad to see it's become a more popular idea. The new additions Innistrad is bringing with it will hopefully be the final push zombies needs to be really good.
aether vial - right now we don't really know what the modern meta will be like yet for blue based control. aether vial has mostly been a dead card for me during testing so i think it should be moved to the sideboard for now.
with innistrad it looks like we now have 2 different directions to take zombies. the first is the traditional aggro build with 12-16 lords complimented by disruption/removal. the second is more what innistrad is giving us which is token based zombie swarm. endless ranks of the dead for example is actually pretty good and could fit in a midrange build of zombies.
quick list i threw together. i think covenant has a lot of potential. it can lower power/toughness of tarmogoyf, and put like 4-5 dudes on the field, and give your dudes lifelink.
I love this idea! I've been a huge fan of zombies since it was actually viable in standard back in Onslaught/Mirrodin. Although I think if we're going to be considered competitive in Modern, this deck needs to be FAST. There's no reason to use any card above 3cc, except for maybe Undead Warchief. Also, 8x discard spells should be mandatory. And although we have access to 4 or 5 different lords that doesn't mean we need to use all of them. Lord of the Undead and Cemetery reaper are both trivial..as is Aether Vial (in this deck at least). If you're alive long enough to start doing tricks with any of these, then you're probably going to win anyway. Modern is an insanely fast format and we need to be able to keep up. Here's the list I'm going to start building as soon as Innistrad is released (no doubt with some changes after said release).
The key here is to use zombie creatures with protection. If we had a low cc zombie with pro red in modern I would use it, but unfortunately these are the only options. Pro white helps them swing unblocked against Zoo and Bant, and also prevents Path to Exile, Journey to Nowhere, etc..while pro black keeps away Terminate and Smother. Having a deck full of lords that don't do much other than buff each other won't get us very far, unless we have good ways of getting that damage through. In addition, both the Cavalier and the Crusader can also be pumped or tossed into the air.
I plan on replacing Sangrophage with Diregraf Ghoul, once it's released. That should help round out the mana curve, loosening my bottleneck at CMC 2. I feel as if Withered Wretch almost deserves some mainboard slots just because she's so good agaisnt Tarmogoyf. I chose Badmoon over a third because it's cheaper, it survives removal, and it buffs a lord when he's by himself. Firespout is a very powerful and popular card right now, and I want to be able to blow my hand as quickly as possible without worrying about that kind of removal.
The only card I didn't include that I really wanted to is Phylactery Lich. That card has amazing potential, but there simply aren't enough artifacts relevant to this deck's goals. The only artifacts I can think that might belong here are Tidehollow Sculler or Executioner's Capsule, but neither of those will be staying in play for very long anyway. I saw someone using Infiltration Lens, which I thought was interesting. I dunno how viable that actually is in this environment, but I like the idea. It has nice synergy with Death Baron.
I think it should be taken into consideration that unlike some other decks, we have the option of running Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth to deal with lands like Tectonic Edge and Ghost Quarter only producing colorless mana. Even though it can be hit by nonbasic hate, it is still something to think about, as it would allow us to run a greater volume of nonbasic hate to help with decks like 12 Post.
Edit: Unless Unholy Grotto is reprinted or you plan to take advantage of Lord of the Undead's ability, I don't think it's worth it to run Nameless Inversion. Yes, it gets cheaper with warchief out, but that's a small gain compared to the disadvantage of only being able to kill x/3 or lower creatures.
I think it should be taken into consideration that unlike some other decks, we have the option of running Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth to deal with lands like Tectonic Edge and Ghost Quarter only producing colorless mana. Even though it can be hit by nonbasic hate, it is still something to think about, as it would allow us to run a greater volume of nonbasic hate to help with decks like 12 Post.
Edit: Unless Unholy Grotto is reprinted or you plan to take advantage of Lord of the Undead's ability, I don't think it's worth it to run Nameless Inversion. Yes, it gets cheaper with warchief out, but that's a small gain compared to the disadvantage of only being able to kill x/3 or lower creatures.
Inversion is still a great card....and with Haakon, it becomes 1B: Destroy target creature with 3 toughness or less.
Then I think it's largely dependent on if you run vial or a discard outlet in your list or not. Without something like Haakon to abuse its tribal component I think removal like Go for the Throat or Geth's Verdict are better.
Edit: Please note that I don't think inversion is bad, I just believe we have better options if we aren't somehow abusing it.
Withered Wretch also hits the likes of Pyromancer's Acension when its charging up, any future Academy Ruins tricks, Rite of Flame, future flashback cards...and can get lucky to take out any Eldrazi. Thoughtseize, discard Emrakul, remove it from the game in response to the graveyard shuffle trigger.
Also, Darksteel Citadel can be used in combination with Phylacrity Lich or w/e very well, with Urborg to make black mana.
I agree that Withered Wretch is one of our best available 2 drops and it allows us to deal with decks that consider their graveyards important for some reason easily and without requiring SB spots.
As for using Darksteel Citadel for the lich, that will depend on the amount of other colorless lands we use, and it has some pretty heavy competition for the spot with Mutavault, Ghost Quarter, and Tectonic Edge. Also, should we be so lucky as to get a reprint of Unholy Grotto it's highly likely a spot would be spent on that.
Hello everyone, new member here in MTGSalvation. Here's my 2 cents...
I've been playing since Onslaught block was Standard legal, and guess what tribe I picked up?:tongue:
So, Modern zombies... this is the list I've tested where I play. I've been twisting this deck for a few weeks now:
SIDEBOARD:
3 Damnation
4 Sadistic Sacrament
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Pitching Needle
Modern isn't so popular where I play (1 tournament a month), but still, I felt like sharing it with you.
The deck is unbelievably good against Zoo. They just can't deal with the Crusaders. Since most of their removal is white, they'll have a hard time hitting your other zombies too.
Against Dredge, Living End and other GY based strategies, they may win the first game if you get no Wretch on the table, but games 2 and 3 will be yours (Leyline:heart::heart:).
Against combo, I bring the Sacraments, and it's all about getting as many Duress and Sacraments in before they can hit it off.
I also bring Damnation against some people there who play Vampires and Merfolk. Some people play Next-Level Blue too with those darn Vedalken Shackles and Explosives, that's why the Needles.
I was thinking about a Suicide Black in Modern, but I don't know that it would stand up to the competition, but this deck would be in the same vein. You can't just play a bunch of three drop Zombies and expect to get anywhere; games are over around turn 4.
Here's what I was thinking for monoblack aggro. Then we'll compare.
At three black has access to Ashenmoor Gouger and Arrogant Bloodlord. Nyxathid is strong against aggressive strategies but weak against control and combo. Dismember's here too. We don't want that many three drops anyway.
Your tribal synergies are cute but in terms of power I don't think you can stand up to even a non-tribal monoblack... and I don't think the build I described is good enough to see play.
I'll have to disagree with what you posted, chizarlicious. Just having a one-drop that doesn't do anything else isn't going to win you a match. Any creature from zoo, affinity, monored, naya, boros, jund etc is better than that. At best, you'll be able to trade with a creature when DEFENDING, and defending is not how you win a Magic game, is it?:tongue:
The 2-drops are all good, of course... except for Blind Creeper. Also, they are not Zombies, and I'm talking about making a tribal zombies deck in Modern, so... they are all out. Of course, for a "regular" monoblack deck, all your arguments would be valid.
I updated my list from the last post. It was extensively tested with my friends this past weekend, and here's the list and match records:
SIDEBOARD:
3 Damnation
4 Sadistic Sacrament
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Pitching Needle
DOMAIN ZOO: It ended 10-3 for the brain-eaters. I lost mostly to manascrew, together with drawing no crusaders. Once they hit the table though, Zoo decks hit the "Brake" button. They'll try to burn you to death: that's where the tendrils will shine. They also have to choose between Path'ing your Korlash or your Lich... which they also can't deal with otherwise. All in all, it's about slowing them down. Damnation helps a lot.
FLING AFFINITY: They can be invincible with the right cards when playing first. It ended 10-5 for them. I won mostly when they slowed a bit for my removal to work, or when cranial plating didn't show up. Etched Champion is scary.
DREDGE: Game 1 is almost always theirs. Games 2 and 3 are dependant on sideboard for both sides. Since I took the Wretches out, I believe that's why the records were not that good. It ended 10-7 in favor of zombies.
LIVING END: Pretty much the same as Dredge, game 1 is theirs, 2 and 3 are better. 10-6 to zombies.
PYROMANCER: God, I hate combo decks! They always win game 1, except when they don't draw their ascension (which is very unlikely). Games 2 and 3 are close, but they still have the edge. It was 10-3 to the darn combo.
BOOM/BUST NAYA: Pretty much the same as Zoo. Boom/Bust sucks big time, but it doesn't win the game for them. Ajani Vengeant is useless against your pro-white creatures. It was 10-4 for Zombies.
JUND: Way too many variants... we went for the most common build found, with efficient creatures (goyf, thrinax, grave titan, bloodbraid etc.) and removal (terminate, maelstrom, bituminous, punishing fire, blightning etc.). It was pretty close, 10-8 to Jund. They generate a lot of card advantage, but still, not impossible. Even after leaving STD, Blightning is the key card.
MYTHIC CONSCRITPTION: Another White-based deck... if they come fast, and a birds gets the enchantment, it's game. Most of the time, though, you'll be able to kill the creature, and after side, hit them with Sadistic Sacrament. Lotus Cobra is scary. 10-5 to zombies.
MONORED: Another tough match. It's all about getting the crusaders on the field and the tendrils working ASAP. Everlasting Torment and Leyline are the only tools they have to prevent you from getting life, but almost no one uses them. 10-8 to zombies.
Overall, the deck works fine. It is slow, of course, but that's how zombies fare.
We didn't make any control deck to test because we were really tired from all the testing. We'll probably do more records next weekend.
Hope I helped all you zombo-lovers. Now go out and their brains!
Edit: Unless Unholy Grotto is reprinted or you plan to take advantage of Lord of the Undead's ability, I don't think it's worth it to run Nameless Inversion. Yes, it gets cheaper with warchief out, but that's a small gain compared to the disadvantage of only being able to kill x/3 or lower creatures.
Nameless Inversion is awsome when paired with LotU. For those creature you can't remove over x/3, use the also recursive Fleshbag Marauder.
Heres my version im working on... vial really lets u play 4 colors without a problem so just add 4 of the best zombies ^^ also vial plus skaab is pretty freakin house.
-Sun Tzu
Decks I Play
EDH
RStarke of Rath chaosR
UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB
UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW
Legacy
WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW
RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW
XMUDX
i like graveborn muse but undead warchief is already a staple in the 4 drop slot. i would go with phyrexian arena instead.
as for what glissa would be replacing, i think she should replace lord of the undead instead of death baron or a mix of the 2. zombies may have a lot of lords but they can still be easily outsized by a tarmogoyf or merfolk/elf decks which have just as many lords. deathtouch becomes important in those match ups. cemetery reaper also already interacts with creatures in the graveyeard, and between him and lord of the undead, i'm leaning more towards reaper.
EDIT: I'll make a BG list later.
Commander GU Edric Control
x4 Vial
x4 nameless
x4 Warchief (maybe 3)
x4 Lord of the Undead
x4 Deathbaron
x4 Thoughtseize
x4 Cemetary reaper
x4 Mutavault
I think those cards are automatically necessary.
Withered Wretch seem like a great 2 drop just for the fact you can screw with Pyromancer, and gifts/loam engines.
Korlash could be a good engine, but feels so slow.
Stromgald Crusader seems great.
Splashing White for Path, and Tidehallow and more sideboard options is prolly very smart.
I think Splashing White is the best way to go. Needs MOAR one drops. Good ones.
Daretti
Ezuri
Captain Sisay (In work)
4x Lord of the Undead
3x Death Baron
4x Cemetery Reaper
4x Tidehollow Sculler
4x Stormgald Crusader
3x Sangrophage
4x Nameless Inversion
3x Path to Exile
4x Thoughtseize
4x Mutavault
4x Marsh Flats
4x Godless Shrine
4x Caves of Koilos
2x Fetid Heath
2x Swamp
The one thing I really don't like is all the double-black in a lot of the costs, which makes it really hard to add Ghost Quarters in. Might need to be a SB option, honestly...
RBW Mardu Pyro
X Eldrazi
Pauper:
X Affinity
G Stompy
If it hasn't been mentioned, what do you guys think of the combo of Lord of the Undead, Fleshbag Marauder, and Grave Pact to basically board wipe opponents?
Edit: The fleshbag combo does even better with vial set to 3. It basically becomes 1B,T: Your opponent sacrifices two creatures.
aether vial - right now we don't really know what the modern meta will be like yet for blue based control. aether vial has mostly been a dead card for me during testing so i think it should be moved to the sideboard for now.
with innistrad it looks like we now have 2 different directions to take zombies. the first is the traditional aggro build with 12-16 lords complimented by disruption/removal. the second is more what innistrad is giving us which is token based zombie swarm. endless ranks of the dead for example is actually pretty good and could fit in a midrange build of zombies.
thoughts?
3x cemetery reaper
3x death baron
3x undead warchief
4x (that 1 for a 2/2 innestrad guy)
4x stormgald crusador
4x thoughtseize
2x inquisition of kozilek
4x path to exile
2x necromancer's covenant
3x verdant catacombs
4x godless shrine
1x plains
11x swamp
quick list i threw together. i think covenant has a lot of potential. it can lower power/toughness of tarmogoyf, and put like 4-5 dudes on the field, and give your dudes lifelink.
4 Sangrophage
4 Stromglad Crusader
4 Stillmoon Cavalier
3 Undead Warchief
3 Death Baron
1 Lord of the Undead
Enchantments (3):
3 Bad Moon
Instants (8):
4 Nameless Inversion
4 Smother
4 Duress
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
Lands (22):
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
2 Mutavault
2 Tectonic Edge
12 Swamp
4 Surgical Extraction
3 Memoricide
3 Geth's Verdict
3 Withered Wretch
2 Lord of the Undead
The key here is to use zombie creatures with protection. If we had a low cc zombie with pro red in modern I would use it, but unfortunately these are the only options. Pro white helps them swing unblocked against Zoo and Bant, and also prevents Path to Exile, Journey to Nowhere, etc..while pro black keeps away Terminate and Smother. Having a deck full of lords that don't do much other than buff each other won't get us very far, unless we have good ways of getting that damage through. In addition, both the Cavalier and the Crusader can also be pumped or tossed into the air.
I plan on replacing Sangrophage with Diregraf Ghoul, once it's released. That should help round out the mana curve, loosening my bottleneck at CMC 2. I feel as if Withered Wretch almost deserves some mainboard slots just because she's so good agaisnt Tarmogoyf. I chose Badmoon over a third because it's cheaper, it survives removal, and it buffs a lord when he's by himself. Firespout is a very powerful and popular card right now, and I want to be able to blow my hand as quickly as possible without worrying about that kind of removal.
The only card I didn't include that I really wanted to is Phylactery Lich. That card has amazing potential, but there simply aren't enough artifacts relevant to this deck's goals. The only artifacts I can think that might belong here are Tidehollow Sculler or Executioner's Capsule, but neither of those will be staying in play for very long anyway. I saw someone using Infiltration Lens, which I thought was interesting. I dunno how viable that actually is in this environment, but I like the idea. It has nice synergy with Death Baron.
Draft My Cube!
Edit: Unless Unholy Grotto is reprinted or you plan to take advantage of Lord of the Undead's ability, I don't think it's worth it to run Nameless Inversion. Yes, it gets cheaper with warchief out, but that's a small gain compared to the disadvantage of only being able to kill x/3 or lower creatures.
Inversion is still a great card....and with Haakon, it becomes 1B: Destroy target creature with 3 toughness or less.
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyEdit: Please note that I don't think inversion is bad, I just believe we have better options if we aren't somehow abusing it.
Also, Darksteel Citadel can be used in combination with Phylacrity Lich or w/e very well, with Urborg to make black mana.
-MTG Salvation.
As for using Darksteel Citadel for the lich, that will depend on the amount of other colorless lands we use, and it has some pretty heavy competition for the spot with Mutavault, Ghost Quarter, and Tectonic Edge. Also, should we be so lucky as to get a reprint of Unholy Grotto it's highly likely a spot would be spent on that.
I've been playing since Onslaught block was Standard legal, and guess what tribe I picked up?:tongue:
So, Modern zombies... this is the list I've tested where I play. I've been twisting this deck for a few weeks now:
CREATURES:
4 Withered Wretch
4 Stromgald Crusader
4 Stillmoon Cavalier
4 Phyrexian Crusader
4 Phylactery Lich
SPELLS:
4 Duress
4 Doom Blade
4 Smother
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Sword of Light and Shadow
LANDS:
16 Swamp
4 Darksteel Citatel
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
SIDEBOARD:
3 Damnation
4 Sadistic Sacrament
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Pitching Needle
Modern isn't so popular where I play (1 tournament a month), but still, I felt like sharing it with you.
The deck is unbelievably good against Zoo. They just can't deal with the Crusaders. Since most of their removal is white, they'll have a hard time hitting your other zombies too.
Against Dredge, Living End and other GY based strategies, they may win the first game if you get no Wretch on the table, but games 2 and 3 will be yours (Leyline:heart::heart:).
Against combo, I bring the Sacraments, and it's all about getting as many Duress and Sacraments in before they can hit it off.
I also bring Damnation against some people there who play Vampires and Merfolk. Some people play Next-Level Blue too with those darn Vedalken Shackles and Explosives, that's why the Needles.
Any criticism is welcome! Yeah, ANY!:D:D
Here's what I was thinking for monoblack aggro. Then we'll compare.
At one we play Diregraf Ghoul and probably a bunch of Thoughtsieze and/or Inquisition of Kozilek.
At two we play Dark Confidant. Blind Creeper, Nantuko Shade, and Oona's Prowler are other candidates for two drops.
Withered Wretch is great against Tarmogoyf and Pyromancer's Asencion, but whether that earns it a spot in the maindeck or sideboard is up for debate.
Wrench Mind is our closest analogy to Hymn to Tourach, with Augur of Skulls coming in second. Go for the Throat and Grasp of Darkness are both premier removal spells at two.
At three black has access to Ashenmoor Gouger and Arrogant Bloodlord. Nyxathid is strong against aggressive strategies but weak against control and combo. Dismember's here too. We don't want that many three drops anyway.
Four is pretty expensive. If we play any four drops they'll be powerhouses like Mindslicer, Phyrexian Obliterator, and Abyssal Persecutor.
Your tribal synergies are cute but in terms of power I don't think you can stand up to even a non-tribal monoblack... and I don't think the build I described is good enough to see play.
The 2-drops are all good, of course... except for Blind Creeper. Also, they are not Zombies, and I'm talking about making a tribal zombies deck in Modern, so... they are all out. Of course, for a "regular" monoblack deck, all your arguments would be valid.
I updated my list from the last post. It was extensively tested with my friends this past weekend, and here's the list and match records:
CREATURES:
4 Stromgald Crusader
4 Stillmoon Cavalier
4 Phyrexian Crusader
4 Phylactery Lich
4 Korlash, Heir to Blackblade
SPELLS:
4 Duress
4 Dismember
4 Tendrils of Corruption
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Sword of Light and Shadow
LANDS:
17 Swamp
4 Darksteel Citadel
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
SIDEBOARD:
3 Damnation
4 Sadistic Sacrament
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Pitching Needle
DOMAIN ZOO: It ended 10-3 for the brain-eaters. I lost mostly to manascrew, together with drawing no crusaders. Once they hit the table though, Zoo decks hit the "Brake" button. They'll try to burn you to death: that's where the tendrils will shine. They also have to choose between Path'ing your Korlash or your Lich... which they also can't deal with otherwise. All in all, it's about slowing them down. Damnation helps a lot.
FLING AFFINITY: They can be invincible with the right cards when playing first. It ended 10-5 for them. I won mostly when they slowed a bit for my removal to work, or when cranial plating didn't show up. Etched Champion is scary.
DREDGE: Game 1 is almost always theirs. Games 2 and 3 are dependant on sideboard for both sides. Since I took the Wretches out, I believe that's why the records were not that good. It ended 10-7 in favor of zombies.
LIVING END: Pretty much the same as Dredge, game 1 is theirs, 2 and 3 are better. 10-6 to zombies.
PYROMANCER: God, I hate combo decks! They always win game 1, except when they don't draw their ascension (which is very unlikely). Games 2 and 3 are close, but they still have the edge. It was 10-3 to the darn combo.
BOOM/BUST NAYA: Pretty much the same as Zoo. Boom/Bust sucks big time, but it doesn't win the game for them. Ajani Vengeant is useless against your pro-white creatures. It was 10-4 for Zombies.
JUND: Way too many variants... we went for the most common build found, with efficient creatures (goyf, thrinax, grave titan, bloodbraid etc.) and removal (terminate, maelstrom, bituminous, punishing fire, blightning etc.). It was pretty close, 10-8 to Jund. They generate a lot of card advantage, but still, not impossible. Even after leaving STD, Blightning is the key card.
MYTHIC CONSCRITPTION: Another White-based deck... if they come fast, and a birds gets the enchantment, it's game. Most of the time, though, you'll be able to kill the creature, and after side, hit them with Sadistic Sacrament. Lotus Cobra is scary. 10-5 to zombies.
MONORED: Another tough match. It's all about getting the crusaders on the field and the tendrils working ASAP. Everlasting Torment and Leyline are the only tools they have to prevent you from getting life, but almost no one uses them. 10-8 to zombies.
Overall, the deck works fine. It is slow, of course, but that's how zombies fare.
We didn't make any control deck to test because we were really tired from all the testing. We'll probably do more records next weekend.
Hope I helped all you zombo-lovers. Now go out and their brains!
Nameless Inversion is awsome when paired with LotU. For those creature you can't remove over x/3, use the also recursive Fleshbag Marauder.
My build
18 Swamp
03 Ghost Quarter
01 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
// CREATURES (27)
04 Diregraf Ghoul
04 Festering Goblin
04 Stromgald Crusader
04 Lord of the Undead
04 Undead Warchief
03 Gutless Ghoul
02 Graveborn Muse
02 Fleshbag Marauder
04 AEther Vial
04 Duress
03 Nameless Inversion
4 Diregraf Ghoul
4 Putrid leech
4 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Skaab Ruinator
4 Lord of the Undead
1 Viscera Dragger
2 Korlash, Heir to Blackblade
1 Graveborn Muse
Artifacts 5
1 Sword of War and Peace
4 Æther Vial
Spells 11
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Path to Exile
4 Remand
2 Overgrown Tombs
2 Godless Shrine
3 Watery Grave
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh flats
1 Island
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Swamp
2 Gaea's Blessing
3 Hibernation
3 Hurkyl's Recall
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Kitchen Finks