Ruinator...I just can't get past the exiling 3 creatures thing. A 5/6 for 3 mana is a steal, yes, and its even nicer that he flies. But again, it goes against the whole idea of the deck. Most of the guys I have recur, I don't want to exile them. It simply feels like to heavy a cost. Then again, I also play Golgari Thug, so even the guys without an ability to recur, I can still get them back thanks to him.
It seems obvious that you hven't played a lot of games to say things like this. How can it goes against the idea of the deck when the idea itself is to fullfill the graveyard ?It even doesn't interfere with hooting mandrills and other delve cards. The fact is that you really don't care about removing almost anything when you get a 5/6 flyer. Who cares about removing the 2nd-3rd lotleth troll, or an extra stinkweed imp ? seriously, 3 creatures is not that much in a deck like that. In fact, i started out with robert Benneteau's list of 40 creatures and it just wasn't working. I had issues about lowering the creature count since casting the ruinator consistently is really hard to beat. I've lowered the creature count to 30 and never looked back. The deck runs better than ever and almost never find myself in a position where i can't cast ruinator.
Squee, Goblin Nabob is a card I like very much, but I can't see how this list abuses his ability, other than triggering a Vengevine and being a perpetual (very mana-intensive) chump blocker.
It is just value. You can discard it every turn to Lotleth Troll, and Faithless Looting becomes more or less "draw 2 cards, then discard 1 card". I myself am not completely on board with this deck. I think it doesn't have that much interaction and in this meta you either interact a lot, or you are blistering fast. I don't think it is blistering fast, so matches such as Bloom Titan, Splinter Twin, Affinity, Infect and Burn become difficult. With the sideboard you can of course fix a thing or two, but still you would have the sideboard lottery. Either this deck is a lot faster than I think, or it was very lucky in the lottery.
Thanks for pointing out Hedron Crab. Totally forgot about him. Troll I'm pretty sure is the reason for running a singleton Squee Goblin. You can dredge and return this guy to have 2 discards per turn for Troll, making him huge, fast!
Looking at my deck, I just don't know what I would consider taking out to make room for blue mana sources and cards. And some choices in that 2nd place list are really worrying, mainly being no MD Decays, zero ability to disrupt an opponent's hand, no Lightning Bolts, etc.
First off, Bloodghast is always cheaper than Gravecrawler since you never actually cast him. So, while he arguably might not always be worth a full playset, he definitely earns slots.
Fatestitcher isn't the reason to splash another color. This in combination with Crab and Ruinator is the reason. It's like saying Faithless Looting isn't worth splashing red for. **face palm** Playing blue just means adjusting your mana base and taking more damage from it. If I'm going to exile a Bloodghast to cast a Ruinator, it's totally worth it. A 5/6 flyer for 3 and casting it from the graveyard is insane for this deck.
With these comments, it seems you don't understand the concepts of an aggro deck or this archetype. We always want recurring values from the graveyard. A 2/1 might not be the most overwhelming creature, but attacking with three of four of them every turn and just recasting them over and over again runs the opponents out of resources. If 2 hit every turn, that's 4 damage before we even get our Vengevines online. Cheap, fast creatures that hit for 1-2 is always what an aggro deck does.
Well, I can't really argue with the points that have been made. And there were a few things I didn't consider. I admit, I was too hasty in my judgment. I used this thread to help me build my current deck about a year ago and it seems to be working fine. Some of the attitudes I have were influenced by the recommendations of others. That's the blessing (and curse) of this game, what some people find really great, others will claim hasn't worked for them.
I don't know about anyone else lately. I have found myself getting my butt kicked (2-0) vs most variants of Twin and Tron as of late. Twin has been consistently T4 killing me both before and after SB. Tron has been landing Wurmcoil and Karn so early that I can't deal with it effectively. After I do, I fall so far behind that I can't win.
I have played and tested the 4 colour, Jund, Sultai and Abzan (that version ran Lingering Souls and an Unburial Rites package), and found that is loses to the mana base more than anything else. So I started brewing up a straight Golgari version and was wondering if anyone has any experience with a two colour Dredgevine list?
I would like to change the focus to a sideboard revamp. My current sideboard has 7-8 dedicated cards that aren't moving for obvious reasons. These include 3 Thoughtseize, 2 Gnaw to the Bone, 2-3 Ancient Grudge. These are arguably the best cards to bring in against a majority of almost any meta.
I have been facing a large number of Soul Sisters online recently. I am 4-3 this past weekend vs them. If I have an Abrupt Decay, it's an auto save for their Ajani Pridemate. Any and all Darkblast are for anything I can ping. Golgari Charm is an awesome sweeper vs them. What do you guys use against them?
I think one of our worst matchups is Splinter Twin. Honestly have loved Spellskites in the board and have become increasingly unsatisfied with Slaughter Games. Also if your really afraid of the Soul Sisters matchup Rain of Gore ruins their day and at two mana too boot. One thing I have noticed is we have to board as though we are a combo deck most of the time. That is to say we have to have silver bullets for common threatening scenarios and not over board (which I have been known to do from time to time).
Link to deck @ TappedOut.net
I don't have a meta owned by twin, but infect/burn are huge and honestly the Spellskite in the sideboard is to help keep infect and burn off. I run Ground Seal in the side because control play has been a big thing locally and it helps me go against Grafdigger's Cage and Relic of Progenitus. I use Slaughter Pact and Dismember over Murderous Cut because it tested poorly when I used it with Tasigur, the Golden Fang because I couldn't fill my yard quick enough to accommodate both unless pushing something zany like Mesmeric Orb. I really don't miss the draw or spot removal of red honestly but that Squee Goblin Nabob tech is pretty sweet. Nice lists everyone!
Any reason for the Treasure Find? Seems kind of out of place to me. Also when I was testing Tasigur, the Golden Fang, I found Murderous Cut to be really powerful as it allowed for more selective draws. Also any reason your not running Golgari Grave-Troll? Seems good in a version playing a full set of Birds of Paradise. One last thing I don't really understand the Ground Seal... But honestly it looks solid. I would love to know how the Golgari version is working out for you.
Any reason for the Treasure Find? Seems kind of out of place to me. Also when I was testing Tasigur, the Golden Fang, I found Murderous Cut to be really powerful as it allowed for more selective draws. Also any reason your not running Golgari Grave-Troll? Seems good in a version playing a full set of Birds of Paradise. One last thing I don't really understand the Ground Seal... But honestly it looks solid. I would love to know how the Golgari version is working out for you.
Thanks for the response Dufould. I use Treasure Find as a 2 of because there are plenty of times that the deck feels neutered in certain matchups without Lotleth Troll or one of my murder spells. Treasure Find allows me to stabilize and grab whatever I need back to my hand. I've been recently considering taking it down to a one of, but I don't have anything else to put in its slot. You have a good point on Murderous Cut, but I fear the friction caused by running multiple delve spells and having it at a time where I have no way to rapidly fill the yard and having dead card in hand. Perhaps I should run it in Slaughter Pact's slot for a while and see if I can gain that benefit. I don't run the Grave-Troll because I don't have him unfortunately although I am trying to get at least 2 of him. Ground seal is in my side as a 3 of because the local meta is rife with Snapcaster Mage style decks and Relic of Progenitus is in more than one mainboard. The Ground Seal allows me to put an end to both shenanigans at 2 cmc with a bonus card draw thrown in. Believe it or not this works well in a control heavy meta, but alas it doesn't hit Grafdigger's Cage or Tormod's Crypt so that is a bummer. I plan to take it to tournaments soon but I have to playtest it more and work out a couple of the matchups, particularly tokens which can pace the explosive dynamics of the deck and path our serious threats. Not to mention Rest in Peace boarded in for game 2 which really hurts. There are 2 of those running around locally so I have to make sure I'm ready. Thanks for the feedback and trust me all suggestions are welcome. I just like a 2 color build because I feel like I play better against Blood Moon and my consistency is a bit more reliable.
Well if you want the effect of Treasured Find you should play some Eternal Witness instead. Just so you are aware Ground Seal does nothing against Relic of Progenitus as the card in the graveyard is never targeted you exile a card as the resolution of the ability, the player is targeted. It does work against Snapcaster Mage however. You should look at putting in some discard in the 75. Thoughtseize is an amazing card, Inquisition of Kozilek and Duress function differently but fill the same role I've found that three is the correct number to have in the 75. Look at fitting in Abrupt Decay main. Anyways stay frosty.
Well if you want the effect of Treasured Find you should play some Eternal Witness instead. Just so you are aware Ground Seal does nothing against Relic of Progenitus as the card in the graveyard is never targeted you exile a card as the resolution of the ability, the player is targeted. It does work against Snapcaster Mage however. You should look at putting in some discard in the 75. Thoughtseize is an amazing card, Inquisition of Kozilek and Duress function differently but fill the same role I've found that three is the correct number to have in the 75. Look at fitting in Abrupt Decay main. Anyways stay frosty.
Solid suggestions and man I can't believe I thought Seal turned off Relic! That's a major bust on my part. It has been promptly removed for Creeping Corrosion. I think Abrupt Decay is going to go main I just haven't decided on what should come out. I've always been at odds with Eternal Witness in this list because being on 2 green can sometimes be an issue, although the Birds of Paradise should keep me on point there. I guess I've got a fair amount of testing to do with these changes. I do like discard effects, I just wonder if maybe running Inquisition over Thoughtseize would be better for my meta as there are a couple of burn players and some other fast decks that make me value my life. I guess I could always go seize main and inquisition in the side and swap as needed. At any rate, I'm pretty sure these changes are going to improve the deck's consistency and threat potential greatly so I want to thank you for the input. Take it easy and cheers.
You should look at putting in some discard in the 75. Thoughtseize is an amazing card, Inquisition of Kozilek and Duress function differently but fill the same role I've found that three is the correct number to have in the 75. Look at fitting in Abrupt Decay main. Anyways stay frosty.
I have to agree on the discard. Thoughtseize hits everything for 2 life (that saves us sometimes). In a burn heavy meta, Duress plays the same role (minus a select few cards). Save the discard for the sideboard though as it is bad vs a decent number of matchups. We are a combo deck, so we need our space MB for G1.
The best way to get used to triggers is to play MODO. I've learned a thing or two about the stack and response times with hate.
I probably looked over it a million times on the gatherer but while searching through some cards I had in a box buried at the bottom of my closet I seen brain gorgers . I have been looking at this card and wonder if anyone has tested it here. I run a jund list and think it may warrant some testing... Any thoughts?
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Decks: standard
N/A
Modern
Dredge vine
4 color gifts
Junk midrange
Daga control
Rb burn
Soul sisters
Nice list! I'm wondering if in my straight BG version I can find some source of card advantage outside Altar's Reap and Sign in Blood that could prove useful. I want to avoid anything tacked on to creatures or that are too mana intensive like Phyrexian Arena. I feel like this is perhaps what the Golgari version lacks most vs. the Jund build of the deck is the ability to use Faithless looting.
Nice list! I'm wondering if in my straight BG version I can find some source of card advantage outside Altar's Reap and Sign in Blood that could prove useful. I want to avoid anything tacked on to creatures or that are too mana intensive like Phyrexian Arena. I feel like this is perhaps what the Golgari version lacks most vs. the Jund build of the deck is the ability to use Faithless looting.
Not only does Golgari lose Looting, but it also loses access to great sideboard cards in the form of Ancient Grudge, Slaughter Games, Molten Rain, Stowing Salt, etc. We may have bad matchups G1, but some of these make the game significantly in our favor. Thoughtseize and Golgari Charm do work, but a lot of times, they need extra help. With cards like Gnaw to the Bone and Ancient Grudge, we want Looting to pitch these into our graveyard.
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Modern decks: BGRDredgevineBGR UWRJeskai ControlUWR
It seems obvious that you hven't played a lot of games to say things like this. How can it goes against the idea of the deck when the idea itself is to fullfill the graveyard ?It even doesn't interfere with hooting mandrills and other delve cards. The fact is that you really don't care about removing almost anything when you get a 5/6 flyer. Who cares about removing the 2nd-3rd lotleth troll, or an extra stinkweed imp ? seriously, 3 creatures is not that much in a deck like that. In fact, i started out with robert Benneteau's list of 40 creatures and it just wasn't working. I had issues about lowering the creature count since casting the ruinator consistently is really hard to beat. I've lowered the creature count to 30 and never looked back. The deck runs better than ever and almost never find myself in a position where i can't cast ruinator.
Fatestitcher isn't the reason to splash another color. This in combination with Crab and Ruinator is the reason. It's like saying Faithless Looting isn't worth splashing red for. **face palm** Playing blue just means adjusting your mana base and taking more damage from it. If I'm going to exile a Bloodghast to cast a Ruinator, it's totally worth it. A 5/6 flyer for 3 and casting it from the graveyard is insane for this deck.
With these comments, it seems you don't understand the concepts of an aggro deck or this archetype. We always want recurring values from the graveyard. A 2/1 might not be the most overwhelming creature, but attacking with three of four of them every turn and just recasting them over and over again runs the opponents out of resources. If 2 hit every turn, that's 4 damage before we even get our Vengevines online. Cheap, fast creatures that hit for 1-2 is always what an aggro deck does.
BGRDredgevineBGR
UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Pauper:
GMono-Green AggroG
MTGO Username: creamy99
Twitch Stream: www.twitch.tv/coachcreamy
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/Cherokee3210
Check it out for the latest testing, gameplay, and dailies!
BGRDredgevineBGR
UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Pauper:
GMono-Green AggroG
MTGO Username: creamy99
Twitch Stream: www.twitch.tv/coachcreamy
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/Cherokee3210
Check it out for the latest testing, gameplay, and dailies!
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Forest
4 Overgrown Tomb
5 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Woodland Cemetery
Creatures (27) :
3 Birds of Paradise
4 Gravecrawler
4 Lotleth Troll
3 Satyr Wayfinder
1 Dregscape Zombie
3 Stinkweed Imp
4 Vengevine
2 Golgari Grave-Troll
3 Gurmag Angler
1 Darkblast
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Grisly Salvage
1 Gnaw to the Bone
2 Murderous Cut
Sorceries (1) :
1 Life From the Loam
Planeswalkers (3) :
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Darkblast
3 Duress
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Golgari Charm
3 Spellskite
2 Gnaw to the Bone
Also so everyone is aware my meta is crawling with Twin which is why there is 3 Spellskites in the side, gotta draw it.
I have been facing a large number of Soul Sisters online recently. I am 4-3 this past weekend vs them. If I have an Abrupt Decay, it's an auto save for their Ajani Pridemate. Any and all Darkblast are for anything I can ping. Golgari Charm is an awesome sweeper vs them. What do you guys use against them?
My other slots include 1 Sowing Salt, 1 Choke, 1 Abrupt Decay, 1 Blood Moon, 2 Slaughter Games, and 2 Golgari Charm. This is of recent changes due to getting my butt handed to me in the practice room against some tough match ups.
What does the rest of the archetype use in their 6-7 alternate slots to combat against a number of decks?
BGRDredgevineBGR
UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Pauper:
GMono-Green AggroG
MTGO Username: creamy99
Twitch Stream: www.twitch.tv/coachcreamy
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/Cherokee3210
Check it out for the latest testing, gameplay, and dailies!
BGRDredgevineBGR
UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Pauper:
GMono-Green AggroG
MTGO Username: creamy99
Twitch Stream: www.twitch.tv/coachcreamy
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/Cherokee3210
Check it out for the latest testing, gameplay, and dailies!
4x Forest
4x Overgrown Tomb
4x Swamp
2x Twilight Mire
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Woodland Cemetery
Creatures (28)
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Golgari Thug
4x Gravecrawler
4x Lotleth Troll
3x Satyr Wayfinder
3x Stinkweed Imp
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4x Vengevine
1x Become Immense
1x Darkblast
2x Dismember
1x Gnaw to the Bone
3x Grisly Salvage
1x Slaughter Pact
Sorcery (3)
1x Life from the Loam
2x Treasured Find
3x Abrupt Decay
2x Gnaw to the Bone
2x Golgari Charm
3x Ground Seal
2x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Slaughter Pact
2x Spellskite
I don't have a meta owned by twin, but infect/burn are huge and honestly the Spellskite in the sideboard is to help keep infect and burn off. I run Ground Seal in the side because control play has been a big thing locally and it helps me go against Grafdigger's Cage and Relic of Progenitus. I use Slaughter Pact and Dismember over Murderous Cut because it tested poorly when I used it with Tasigur, the Golden Fang because I couldn't fill my yard quick enough to accommodate both unless pushing something zany like Mesmeric Orb. I really don't miss the draw or spot removal of red honestly but that Squee Goblin Nabob tech is pretty sweet. Nice lists everyone!
https://www.pinterest.com/chrisrussel0222/magic-the-gathering/
Thanks for the response Dufould. I use Treasure Find as a 2 of because there are plenty of times that the deck feels neutered in certain matchups without Lotleth Troll or one of my murder spells. Treasure Find allows me to stabilize and grab whatever I need back to my hand. I've been recently considering taking it down to a one of, but I don't have anything else to put in its slot. You have a good point on Murderous Cut, but I fear the friction caused by running multiple delve spells and having it at a time where I have no way to rapidly fill the yard and having dead card in hand. Perhaps I should run it in Slaughter Pact's slot for a while and see if I can gain that benefit. I don't run the Grave-Troll because I don't have him unfortunately although I am trying to get at least 2 of him. Ground seal is in my side as a 3 of because the local meta is rife with Snapcaster Mage style decks and Relic of Progenitus is in more than one mainboard. The Ground Seal allows me to put an end to both shenanigans at 2 cmc with a bonus card draw thrown in. Believe it or not this works well in a control heavy meta, but alas it doesn't hit Grafdigger's Cage or Tormod's Crypt so that is a bummer. I plan to take it to tournaments soon but I have to playtest it more and work out a couple of the matchups, particularly tokens which can pace the explosive dynamics of the deck and path our serious threats. Not to mention Rest in Peace boarded in for game 2 which really hurts. There are 2 of those running around locally so I have to make sure I'm ready. Thanks for the feedback and trust me all suggestions are welcome. I just like a 2 color build because I feel like I play better against Blood Moon and my consistency is a bit more reliable.
https://www.pinterest.com/chrisrussel0222/magic-the-gathering/
Solid suggestions and man I can't believe I thought Seal turned off Relic! That's a major bust on my part. It has been promptly removed for Creeping Corrosion. I think Abrupt Decay is going to go main I just haven't decided on what should come out. I've always been at odds with Eternal Witness in this list because being on 2 green can sometimes be an issue, although the Birds of Paradise should keep me on point there. I guess I've got a fair amount of testing to do with these changes. I do like discard effects, I just wonder if maybe running Inquisition over Thoughtseize would be better for my meta as there are a couple of burn players and some other fast decks that make me value my life. I guess I could always go seize main and inquisition in the side and swap as needed. At any rate, I'm pretty sure these changes are going to improve the deck's consistency and threat potential greatly so I want to thank you for the input. Take it easy and cheers.
https://www.pinterest.com/chrisrussel0222/magic-the-gathering/
The best way to get used to triggers is to play MODO. I've learned a thing or two about the stack and response times with hate.
BGRDredgevineBGR
UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Pauper:
GMono-Green AggroG
MTGO Username: creamy99
Twitch Stream: www.twitch.tv/coachcreamy
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/Cherokee3210
Check it out for the latest testing, gameplay, and dailies!
N/A
Modern
Dredge vine
4 color gifts
Junk midrange
Daga control
Rb burn
Soul sisters
Legacy
The gate
Zombie bombardment
Burn
BGRDredgevineBGR
UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Pauper:
GMono-Green AggroG
MTGO Username: creamy99
Twitch Stream: www.twitch.tv/coachcreamy
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/Cherokee3210
Check it out for the latest testing, gameplay, and dailies!
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Gravecrawler
4 Gurmag Angler
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Vengevine
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Darkblast
4 Faithless Looting
3 Grisly Salvage
2 Murderous Cut
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Forest
4 Overgrown Tomb
1 Swamp
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Ancient Grudge
3 Gnaw to the Bone
2 Golgari Charm
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Spellskite
3 Thoughtseize
BGRDredgevineBGR
UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Pauper:
GMono-Green AggroG
MTGO Username: creamy99
Twitch Stream: www.twitch.tv/coachcreamy
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/Cherokee3210
Check it out for the latest testing, gameplay, and dailies!
Nice list! I'm wondering if in my straight BG version I can find some source of card advantage outside Altar's Reap and Sign in Blood that could prove useful. I want to avoid anything tacked on to creatures or that are too mana intensive like Phyrexian Arena. I feel like this is perhaps what the Golgari version lacks most vs. the Jund build of the deck is the ability to use Faithless looting.
https://www.pinterest.com/chrisrussel0222/magic-the-gathering/
BGRDredgevineBGR
UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Pauper:
GMono-Green AggroG
MTGO Username: creamy99
Twitch Stream: www.twitch.tv/coachcreamy
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/Cherokee3210
Check it out for the latest testing, gameplay, and dailies!