I really do not like your changes. You can do what you want with the deck, and in certain situations almost anything can be good, but here are my opinions.
Bant Charm is a great card and is interchangeable with Mana Leak. It hurts your early game but makes your late game a bit better. You can't beat Scapeshift game one now though.
Simic Charm is a "cute" card. It is really bad most of the time. Sure it will save you in some situations where Mana Leak would do nothing, but most of the time I would rather just have a counter spell. If your meta has no combo decks and a lot of control decks I could see Simic Charm being "ok".
Psionic Blast is only good because it is so bad. No one thinks you will have it (or even knows that it exists) so they will not play around it, giving you surprise wins and blowouts. 3 mana is a lot for a 4 damage effect, let alone one that hurts you, and I would rather play any of the other cards listed. If you want burn, splash two stomping grounds and play Bolt.
Spell Snare is a meta card, In my meta I need it for Cranial Plating, Goryo's Vengeance, Tarmogoyf, Bob, and it also lets me play Geist through counter magic against UWR. Snare is amazing in Modern and is rarely dead, almost every deck has something you can counter with it. It also gives you game against boggles by countering Daybreak Coronet. Boggles is pretty miserable if they get life gain going and we need counters main deck to beat them.
Smiter is the best card in this deck, period. If I could play 10 I would. My meta is full of Jund and discard so he really is a work horse. You can cut two for other three drops but I would advise against it.
My SB changes weekly depending on what decks I see or think will be at a tournament. Play what beats your meta. If everyone at your LGS plays affinity play a sideboard of 15 artifact hate cards. My LGS has two mill players who come once in a while. When I see them I cut a Mirran Crusader for an Emrakul. Sideboarding is all about meta gaming and I really cant make a guide for it. The general principle is to take out cards that are bad and put in cards that are good. If you tell me what your meta is like I can construct a sideboard for you and tell you how to use it.
In General here are some tips:
Always have two swords in the deck, pick the colors/effects that are the most relevant.
Against aggro: Cut Mana Leak and bring in more creatures as blockers.
Against control: Cut birds and board in more counters and Thrun. If they play Clique and 4x Snapcaster, you can cut Qasali for Torpor Orb.
Against combo: There are so many combos in modern. Different cards are relevant against each. In combo matchups you want to cut the support creatures that do nothing and Elspeth for relevant hate cards.
Against midrange: I usually cut support creatures and bring in more swords and Thrun. My meta has a lot of Jund so I also bring in Crusader in those match ups.
I've had tremendous success in my testing with your list. I have a question about spell snare, though. You mention that it's largely a meta choice. My meta is heavily populated with pod decks (Kiki and Melira), would it be a bad idea to replace snares with bant charm?
My meta is Kiki pod, 3x Melira pod, dredge vine, ad nauseum (rarer), affinity, uwr control, and burn. Every now and then other decks show up but I'm more inclined to be ready for these. What sideboard would you recommend here?
After playing Bant into the ground I have come to the conclusion that it is simply an inferior version of a Wild Nacatl Counter-Zoo deck.
I learned four things playing with this deck.
1. You need lightning bolt in this format, It is too good to not play in a zoo deck.
2. Birds really, really suck. Getting a bird bolted on a two land hand is a blow-out half the time. With all the three drops we run this can slow us down to the point where we can't win the game.
3. Having an efficient one drop to clock combo decks is really important.
4. Did I mention you really need lighting bolt to beat most decks?
With these things in mind this is the new list I built, and have been playing to great success.
Depending on your meta Geist can be Knight of the Reliquary, you can even run a split. In general, I pick Geist for combo and control metas and Knight if I think I will be facing midrange and aggro.
@dcalrokundess
Spell snare is a very meta choice. One of the decks that it actually sucks against is Pod (It is next to useless in this match-up). It is ok against Kiki because of all their two drop counter-magic but there are much better cards to be running. Bant Charm is very good against Melira, but it is only so-so against Kiki. I would actually consider running Dismember against both of these decks before I look at Bant Charm. Never forget that Dismember is the best green kill spell ever printed.
In your meta my SB would look like this:
2 x Thrun the Last Troll
4 x Leyline of Sanctity
4 x Rest in Peace
2 x Negate
1 x Torpor Orb
2 x Aven Mindcensor
Keep in mind that his SB is very targeted for the decks you listed. I would never recommend taking a SB as specific as this to a wide open tournament or you will get steam rolled by random stuff.
After playing Bant into the ground I have come to the conclusion that it is simply an inferior version of a Wild Nacatl Counter-Zoo deck.
I learned four things playing with this deck.
1. You need lightning bolt in this format, It is too good to not play in a zoo deck.
2. Birds really, really suck. Getting a bird bolted on a two land hand is a blow-out half the time. With all the three drops we run this can slow us down to the point where we can't win the game.
3. Having an efficient one drop to clock combo decks is really important.
4. Did I mention you really need lighting bolt to beat most decks?
With these things in mind this is the new list I built, and have been playing to great success.
Depending on your meta Geist can be Knight of the Reliquary, you can even run a split. In general, I pick Geist for combo and control metas and Knight if I think I will be facing midrange and aggro.
@dcalrokundess
Spell snare is a very meta choice. One of the decks that it actually sucks against is Pod (It is next to useless in this match-up). It is ok against Kiki because of all their two drop counter-magic but there are much better cards to be running. Bant Charm is very good against Melira, but it is only so-so against Kiki. I would actually consider running Dismember against both of these decks before I look at Bant Charm. Never forget that Dismember is the best green kill spell ever printed.
In your meta my SB would look like this:
2 x Thrun the Last Troll
4 x Leyline of Sanctity
4 x Rest in Peace
2 x Negate
1 x Torpor Orb
2 x Aven Mindcensor
Keep in mind that his SB is very targeted for the decks you listed. I would never recommend taking a SB as specific as this to a wide open tournament or you will get steam rolled by random stuff.
Thank you so much for the sideboarding help. I am a little disappointed to hear that Bant isn't as powerful as I hoped, though.
It has its match-ups where it is very powerful. Modern is a card-value and knowledge format. If you know what you are doing, and are playing good cards, you can win with almost any deck. Bant plays great cards and has fine match-ups against most of the field. My personal play-style lends itself to a more aggressive deck, but in your hands Bant may just be superior. It is all about what you are comfortable with.
It has its match-ups where it is very powerful. Modern is a card-value and knowledge format. If you know what you are doing, and are playing good cards, you can win with almost any deck. Bant plays great cards and has fine match-ups against most of the field. My personal play-style lends itself to a more aggressive deck, but in your hands Bant may just be superior. It is all about what you are comfortable with.
I see. That's a very refreshing way of looking at things (a far cry from the instant dismissals and flaming I'm accustomed to reading when it comes to discussion of deck power).
Do you have any other advice regarding the pod matchup? I feel fairly comfortable against Melira, but the quick chains of Kikipod just tear me apart in game 1. Should I chalk up game 1 as being unfavorable, and count on winning the rest of the set?
Counter pod at all costs. Also use your paths wisely. You will only see 1-2 a game and you need to know how to use them. Game one is 50/50 if you get a hand that has at least one or two path/mana leak/qasali.
Keep in mind that the deck can combo off with pod and a combination of almost any two creatures using Phantasmal image to chain.
If you are really having a lot of trouble with pod game one cut swords for 2 Aven Mindcensor main deck.
Im trying out a little diffrent approach to Bant after failing to build a succesfull Naya blink deck. Do you guys have any tips or ideas on how to improve the deck. I´m a bit unsure about COiling oracle, blade splicer and the number of akromas in the deck. When playing the curve feels a little weird. Maybe clique instead of splicer? I would drop 2x Restoration angel for Blade splicer or Clique. It depends on what you want from the deck. How do you want it to function?
Akroma is a bit overkill in 2-off but it seems fine if you have means to survive into late game. BTW, are you referring to Akroma, Angel of Wrath instead? How can you afford the RRR colour?
Coiling Oracle is actually a good card advantage, but I personally think that it is best in early game. ETB, Get the card effects, done. Anything else, he is a chump blocker who has done his job. HOWEVER, you won't want him in late game.
Im trying out Venser instead instead of cryptic command to abuse the blink abilities of the deck. How has venser worked for you? looking at your build, IMO cryptic command may be better actually. Your build seems abit control-ish rather than the traditional midrange/aggro builds. In regards to your first sentence, Because you are kind of going into a more control-ish. On that line, may I suggest mass removals or some sort of board control elements. However, it seems a little cluttered at the moment. If you are going control-based strategies, your deck do not have enough tempo and elements to hold your board positions. If you are going mid-range, you build is quite off with a lot of late game cards, but little in early game tempo and early game threats.
Basing on your build, I can suggest the following as ideas; Feel free to accept or reject. Just my 2-cents.
Akroma is a bit overkill in 2-off but it seems fine if you have means to survive into late game. BTW, are you referring to Akroma, Angel of Wrath instead? How can you afford the RRR colour?
I'm guessing it's Akroma, Angel of Fury and that she's in there for flickering tricks. You play her face down for three, then flicker her to bring her back face up. Some of the DnT lists were trying that a while back. The big problem I see with that plan is that it's easy to Bolt her as a 2/2, and you don't get the usual stack-skipping benefits of morph because you're cheating the cost. Definitely a beating if you can get her on board against a lot of decks though.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
Akroma is a bit overkill in 2-off but it seems fine if you have means to survive into late game. BTW, are you referring to Akroma, Angel of Wrath instead? How can you afford the RRR colour?
I'm guessing it's Akroma, Angel of Fury and that she's in there for flickering tricks. You play her face down for three, then flicker her to bring her back face up. Some of the DnT lists were trying that a while back. The big problem I see with that plan is that it's easy to Bolt her as a 2/2, and you don't get the usual stack-skipping benefits of morph because you're cheating the cost. Definitely a beating if you can get her on board against a lot of decks though.
Oh, I Overlooked the Morph ability...
Hmm.. in that case, it's actually still viable. You'd play her on the turn that you have access to counterspells or some sort of protection. For the fact is that as bant players, we have the colour toolbox that grant us counterspells. If not hexproof or protection works fine. The idea seems fine though, but I actually am more concern of the set-up and execution rather than it dies to bolt.
Looks like a lot of archetypes that were good before Deathrite Shaman existed are finally making a comeback. Esper control comes to mind as well.
i really like that deck list. wish i had goyfs tho...
i really dont think goyf is at its best in this deck; no discard, removal is all exile or bounce, no sorcery mainboard. you could easily replace w ooze and prolly get more out of it
Haven't tested the Treasure cruises yet but they replaced elspeth knight errant and jace beleren which I was testing beforehand. The deck just seems to play so smooth which makes me wonder why it isn't already a thing. Any suggestions? Ive tried birds of paradise before and didn't like it, sure you get a t2 3 drop but then you have this do nothing bird. I would Reconsider if Noble Hierarch was in my budget.
Stuff Ive thought of as potential inclusions:
Looks like a lot of archetypes that were good before Deathrite Shaman existed are finally making a comeback. Esper control comes to mind as well.
i really like that deck list. wish i had goyfs tho...
i really dont think goyf is at its best in this deck; no discard, removal is all exile or bounce, no sorcery mainboard. you could easily replace w ooze and prolly get more out of it
that's true. i might consider it then. need some snaps tho.
Rhox is a very good consideration. I believe he and Finks will be fighting for position, more-so than him and Loxodon.
agreed, both Rhox and finks fold to path, both survive bolt and most other removal. Big difference is finks gives you something right away, comes back if killed and becomes maddening for the opponent with resto. If you r not running restos (not sure why wouldnt since ur in W anyways) its prolly a closer debate but with them finks is prolly the overall better card (plus it loves gavony)
Rhox is a very good consideration. I believe he and Finks will be fighting for position, more-so than him and Loxodon.
My current list includes a 3/3 split on smiters and war monks. Rhox War Monk is and always has been a champ against aggro of any kind, but Finks generally outclasses him, these days... unless you can find a way to make sure you're consistently swinging with him through removal. I only run war monks as a personal preference.
Burn completely folds to a turn 0 Leyline of Sanctity 9 times out of 10. It runs a decent number of creatures, but it just doesn't have the reach it needs to close out games without burn.
I've had tremendous success in my testing with your list. I have a question about spell snare, though. You mention that it's largely a meta choice. My meta is heavily populated with pod decks (Kiki and Melira), would it be a bad idea to replace snares with bant charm?
My meta is Kiki pod, 3x Melira pod, dredge vine, ad nauseum (rarer), affinity, uwr control, and burn. Every now and then other decks show up but I'm more inclined to be ready for these. What sideboard would you recommend here?
I learned four things playing with this deck.
1. You need lightning bolt in this format, It is too good to not play in a zoo deck.
2. Birds really, really suck. Getting a bird bolted on a two land hand is a blow-out half the time. With all the three drops we run this can slow us down to the point where we can't win the game.
3. Having an efficient one drop to clock combo decks is really important.
4. Did I mention you really need lighting bolt to beat most decks?
With these things in mind this is the new list I built, and have been playing to great success.
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Geist of Saint Traft
Spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Mana Leak
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Lands
4 Arid Mesa
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Temple Garden
2 Stomping Ground
1 Steam Vents
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Breeding Pool
Depending on your meta Geist can be Knight of the Reliquary, you can even run a split. In general, I pick Geist for combo and control metas and Knight if I think I will be facing midrange and aggro.
@dcalrokundess
Spell snare is a very meta choice. One of the decks that it actually sucks against is Pod (It is next to useless in this match-up). It is ok against Kiki because of all their two drop counter-magic but there are much better cards to be running. Bant Charm is very good against Melira, but it is only so-so against Kiki. I would actually consider running Dismember against both of these decks before I look at Bant Charm. Never forget that Dismember is the best green kill spell ever printed.
In your meta my SB would look like this:
2 x Thrun the Last Troll
4 x Leyline of Sanctity
4 x Rest in Peace
2 x Negate
1 x Torpor Orb
2 x Aven Mindcensor
Keep in mind that his SB is very targeted for the decks you listed. I would never recommend taking a SB as specific as this to a wide open tournament or you will get steam rolled by random stuff.
Thank you so much for the sideboarding help. I am a little disappointed to hear that Bant isn't as powerful as I hoped, though.
It has its match-ups where it is very powerful. Modern is a card-value and knowledge format. If you know what you are doing, and are playing good cards, you can win with almost any deck. Bant plays great cards and has fine match-ups against most of the field. My personal play-style lends itself to a more aggressive deck, but in your hands Bant may just be superior. It is all about what you are comfortable with.
I see. That's a very refreshing way of looking at things (a far cry from the instant dismissals and flaming I'm accustomed to reading when it comes to discussion of deck power).
Do you have any other advice regarding the pod matchup? I feel fairly comfortable against Melira, but the quick chains of Kikipod just tear me apart in game 1. Should I chalk up game 1 as being unfavorable, and count on winning the rest of the set?
Counter pod at all costs. Also use your paths wisely. You will only see 1-2 a game and you need to know how to use them. Game one is 50/50 if you get a hand that has at least one or two path/mana leak/qasali.
Keep in mind that the deck can combo off with pod and a combination of almost any two creatures using Phantasmal image to chain.
If you are really having a lot of trouble with pod game one cut swords for 2 Aven Mindcensor main deck.
This is his list, updated with the upcoming Onslaught fetch reprints.
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Lotus Cobra
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Vendilion Clique
3 Glen Elendra Archmage
4 Baneslayer Angel
3 Mana Leak
3 Remand
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Cryptic Command
3 Breeding Pool
2 Celestial Colonnade
1 Flooded Strand
2 Forest
1 Gavony Township
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Hallowed Fountain
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Temple Garden
1 Vesuva
4 Windswept Heath
2 Seal of Primordium
2 Spellskite
1 Stony Silence
1 Torpor Orb
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Creeping Corrosion
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2 Obstinate Baloth
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Gideon Jura
Note the lack of Path to Exiles in the deck, just like the old Standard lists.
Bant | U Tron | GW Hatebears | Death and Taxes | Scapeshift | UW Tron | UW Midrange
Just my 2-cents worth. Feel free to accept or reject
Personally, I prefer the traditional build, but an alternative approach is a good refreshing take!
RIP: GWU Midrange (2012-2013) | GWR Ally (2014-2016)
Oh, I Overlooked the Morph ability...
Hmm.. in that case, it's actually still viable. You'd play her on the turn that you have access to counterspells or some sort of protection. For the fact is that as bant players, we have the colour toolbox that grant us counterspells. If not hexproof or protection works fine. The idea seems fine though, but I actually am more concern of the set-up and execution rather than it dies to bolt.
RIP: GWU Midrange (2012-2013) | GWR Ally (2014-2016)
Looks like a lot of archetypes that were good before Deathrite Shaman existed are finally making a comeback. Esper control comes to mind as well.
WURUWr Stoneblade
Modern
WRGNaya Zoo Company
i really like that deck list. wish i had goyfs tho...
i really dont think goyf is at its best in this deck; no discard, removal is all exile or bounce, no sorcery mainboard. you could easily replace w ooze and prolly get more out of it
This is my list at the moment:
3x Geist of Saint Traft
3x Knight of the Reliquary
2x Qasali Pridemage
4x Restoration Angel
3x Scavenging Ooze
2x Snapcaster Mage
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Batterskull
Instants(18)
2x Bant Charm
2x Treasure cruise
4x Mana Leak
4x Path to Exile
4x Remand
2x Vapor Snag
2x Breeding Pool
4x Flooded Strand
1x Forest
2x Gavony Township
4x Hallowed Fountain
2x Island
1x Plains
1x Tectonic Edge
2x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
2x Creeping Corrosion
2x Disenchant
3x Obstinate Baloth
3x Rest in Peace
3x Stony Silence
2x Worship
Haven't tested the Treasure cruises yet but they replaced elspeth knight errant and jace beleren which I was testing beforehand. The deck just seems to play so smooth which makes me wonder why it isn't already a thing. Any suggestions? Ive tried birds of paradise before and didn't like it, sure you get a t2 3 drop but then you have this do nothing bird. I would Reconsider if Noble Hierarch was in my budget.
Stuff Ive thought of as potential inclusions:
1x Blade Splicer
1x Kitchen Finks
1x Loxodon Smiter
1x Mirran Crusader
1x Rhox War Monk
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Spell Pierce
1x Time of Need
1x Troll Ascetic
1x Wall of Omens
that's true. i might consider it then. need some snaps tho.
WURUWr Stoneblade
Modern
WRGNaya Zoo Company
you could have something there. will need to look more into that guy.
agreed, both Rhox and finks fold to path, both survive bolt and most other removal. Big difference is finks gives you something right away, comes back if killed and becomes maddening for the opponent with resto. If you r not running restos (not sure why wouldnt since ur in W anyways) its prolly a closer debate but with them finks is prolly the overall better card (plus it loves gavony)
My current list includes a 3/3 split on smiters and war monks. Rhox War Monk is and always has been a champ against aggro of any kind, but Finks generally outclasses him, these days... unless you can find a way to make sure you're consistently swinging with him through removal. I only run war monks as a personal preference.
Burn completely folds to a turn 0 Leyline of Sanctity 9 times out of 10. It runs a decent number of creatures, but it just doesn't have the reach it needs to close out games without burn.
CG